View Full Version : allergic reaction to 100% DEET ???
Crazy_Al
05-24-2005, 21:59
Is it common to have allergic reaction to 100% DEET ???
smokymtnsteve
05-24-2005, 22:09
not common but possible
Tramper Al
05-24-2005, 22:33
Is it common to have allergic reaction to 100% DEET ???
What are your symptoms? A local skin irritation or burn may not constitute an "allergic reaction". With a true allergy, the DEET concentration would not matter, only the total dose.
smokymtnsteve
05-24-2005, 22:35
U only use a little of the 100% Deet...
also I like to wash it off before I hit the sleeping bag at night...
Try a squirt on nonscratching hand and swab needed areas with hand. Rinse. Don't smoke with that hand! Sometimes less is more. 30% works too.
30% DEET works nearly as well as 100% DEET. Fact of the matter is, DEET is a neurotoxin. Used incorrectly, or too much, and everyone will have a reaction.
When I lived in NY - during the height of the Lyme Disease outbreak, parents were slathering their kids in DEET, and the little buggers were going into convulsions. Lots of them were showing up in emergency rooms. Health officials then did some public outreach to educate as to the proper uses of DEET. Be careful if applying to children.
markellag
05-25-2005, 07:26
What are your symptoms? A local skin irritation or burn may not constitute an "allergic reaction". With a true allergy, the DEET concentration would not matter, only the total dose.
No itching, but my skin becomes alarmingly red, for 2 to 4 days after use.
According to tests done by the military, anything above 34% DEET concentration is a waste. There is no improvement in bug repellency by going to anything more. Up to 50% will provide slightly longer lasting effects, but it doesn't keep the nasties away any better. 30% can be expected to provide about five hours of protection.
Now if they would put the 30 in the 100 size container.
Try Deep Woods Off. Even though it's heavy, I prefer the spray can. I think it's only 20% Deet and strong enough to keep off swarms of NJ (or Sierra) mosquitoes.
Moon Monster
05-25-2005, 23:36
plodder,
what do you mean? There are an assortment of 30% sizes depending on manufacturer. Consider a pump spray for good lightweight packaging. Try searching the web if your local outfitter/discount store doesn't have what you want.
plodder,
what do you mean? There are an assortment of 30% sizes depending on manufacturer. Consider a pump spray for good lightweight packaging. Try searching the web if your local outfitter/discount store doesn't have what you want.
I haven't seen the little 1oz plastic pump job in any but 100%. I don't know how long 4oz of 30% would last, but I suspect I would loose it in the garage. I will keep the eyeballs open.
I have to tell you - military studies aside, that 30 % deet just doesn't seem to last at all - not for me at least.
PKH
You have to use what works for you. I try to cover as much as anything. Short of carrying a smudge pot...I'll deal with them-don't like ticks or fire ants.
Mr. Clean
05-26-2005, 05:52
It works fine here in Maine, of course, I've gotten plenty of booster shots in the past. :D
I agree that the 30% should do all you need. When I used to use the 100% stuff, if I put on too much, I'd get the hot, sweaty feeling that you get with chemical poisoning. Not fun, and not good for you. Now, if I'm hiking and need it, I start with a little, then add more as to the fierceness of the little buggers. And usually on hair and clothes is fine unless you want to stop for a break.
art to linda
05-26-2005, 07:23
I have a problem using even the Deep Woods Off, if I use it more then 2-3 times a day I actually become ill..... needless to say, I ended up no longer using deet containing products. What has worked well for some of you that doesn't contain deet?
Youngblood
05-26-2005, 08:13
I have a problem using even the Deep Woods Off, if I use it more then 2-3 times a day I actually become ill..... needless to say, I ended up no longer using deet containing products. What has worked well for some of you that doesn't contain deet?
Sawyer is not the only company that sells these products, but here is a link to their website that contains some info you will be interested in: http://www.sawyeronline.com/sawyer_products/pages/insect_repellent/index.htm . Basically there are two products to consider. First is the Controlled Release DEET and second is the Permethrin Clothing Treatment. While looking at this I also noticed they mentioned a Low-Odor 100% Deet, which I don't know anything about but wonder if it might also be less of a problem for users that are sensitive to it.
Moon Monster
05-26-2005, 12:05
I haven't seen the little 1oz plastic pump job in any but 100%. I don't know how long 4oz of 30% would last, but I suspect I would loose it in the garage. I will keep the eyeballs open.
Campmor sells Ben's brand pump bottles of 30% in a 1.25 oz and a 4 oz size:
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?memberId=12500226&productId=39143452
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?memberId=12500226&productId=39143546
I also in the past have seen Sawyers in both sizes at REI, but my local REI is now only stocking an "REI" brand and it's 100%.
Now you've done it... Gotta order enough stuff to justify that $6 shipping. Thanks for the info! I know what brand to ask for-where's that phone.
Riddle me this: Since DEET melts plastic, how come the container that it comes in doesn't melt?
Strange... I know.
icemanat95
05-26-2005, 15:38
Deet melts SOME plastics.
Plastic is a nice generic term used to descripe just about any and all polymer compounds, but there are literally dozens of different families of compounds and within those many families of compounds there are probably hundreds of individual formulations that will react differently to different chemical solvents...or not at all.
Nylons and polyesters react very differently to UV radiation for instance. Nylon gets brittle, fades and eventually crumbles. Polyester resists UV radiation much better.
The plastic that they use to make the bottles deet products are sold and stored in are made from a plastic that is resistant to DEET and similar chemical compounds. But spill a bit of the stuff on the cuff of a fleece jacket and the fleece fibers will shrivel and pill.
There is supposedly a new class of insect repellents out there that are as effective as DEET but without the neurological side effects and material damage.
icemanat95
05-26-2005, 15:44
Also, As it's been explained to me, there is a big difference between an allergic reaction and a chemical sensitivity.
I am chemically sensitive to something in Tung Oil (a natural wood finish). The smell of it (pleasant and nutty though it is) makes me nauseous and direct skin contact accelerates the process, but I have no histimine reaction to it. Histimine reactions (swelling of mucous membranes, difficulty in breathing, hives, etc.) define allergies.
The common reactions to DEET are strictly toxicological, caused by the chemical (Which is a neurotoxin) attacking nerve tissues exposed to it. In healthy adults and in normal doses, the effects are minimal and very temporary, probably unnoticeable, but some people are chemically sensitive to the toxin and the effects are much more noticeable and damaging.
I wear headnets and light clothing to cover up rather than slathering myself in gallons of DEET.
I was just kidding about the plastic iceman.
But yes, DEET is a neurotoxin. I still recall my lips going numb in Mass back in 2000. I must have rubbed my forearm on my lips. And my camera - which partially melted. Evidently the camera was made from the type of plastic that DEET melts.
RockyTrail
05-26-2005, 15:55
Very rare but it happens.
We had a personal friend that went on a 2 week trip with a group to Central America. She was deathly afraid of the insect stories she heard so she overdid it with concentrated DEET. I mean she lathered it on all over excessively and for extended periods according to her traveling companions. She died in Costa Rica in a hospital from a reaction to the DEET according to the autopsy report.
That being said, I use DEET frequently and don't worry about it, but I only use the minimum amount I think I need for the occasion.
Very rare but it happens.
We had a personal friend that went on a 2 week trip with a group to Central America. She was deathly afraid of the insect stories she heard so she overdid it with concentrated DEET. I mean she lathered it on all over excessively and for extended periods according to her traveling companions. She died in Costa Rica in a hospital from a reaction to the DEET according to the autopsy report.
That's awful! I spent loads of time in C.R. in the 90s. Six trips in eight years. The mosquitoes in Mass and Conn were MUCH MUCH worse than anything I have ever encountered in the tropics. The Amazon included.
RockyTrail
05-26-2005, 16:11
That's awful! I spent loads of time in C.R. in the 90s. Six trips in eight years. The mosquitoes in Mass and Conn were MUCH MUCH worse than anything I have ever encountered in the tropics. The Amazon included.I think she was afraid of anything creepy-crawly, and maybe mosquitos too. The mind does strange things to behavior!
I was in the Virgin Islands once and put on a t-shirt one morning only to find a cigar-sized centipede was inside it.
When it grabbed onto my chest under my shirt I about freaked right then and there so I can see how someone might think that way.
Consumer REports tests DEET from time to time -- most recently in May 2003. Testers exposed an arm to 200 mosquitoes, first for 3 minutes and then for half hour intervals.
3M Ultrathon lotion, which contains 33% DEET provided 13 hours of protection from bites.
Deep Woods off for Sportsmen in a pump spray and 100% DEET also provided 13 hours of protection.
MUSKOL aeresol and 40% was good for eight hours.
Then in descending order of effectiveness were Bugout, (15%) Sawyer, (20%) Cutter (10%) Off Skinsations (10%). The latter was effective for just 2 hours. Avon Skin so Soft was good for but an hour.
The report is in the May 2003 issue.
The magazine says DEET has been used "by millions of people world wide for decades and is considered safe when used according to to directions."
But it adds, "deet poses a very small potential risk of adverse side effects, especially if misused."
I personally, don't ever go into Maine's black fly north country during May, JUne, and early July without a supply of 100 percent DEET. Usually Ben's 100 liquid. I rub a drop or two on all exposed skin surfaces and it works for me.
I don't use aersols except to spray the back of a tee shirt because I don't like to breathe the stuff. When hiking I don't use aeresols at all, mostly for weight reasons. I make do by rubbing a few drops on the palm of my hands and rubbing it on the tee shirt. (cotton.)
On the trail in 1993 I spoiled my prescription reading glasses when my deet container leaked and etched the plastic lens. I
My home is on a salt marsh that is home to voracious mosquitoes. I use the same black fly technique on the mosquitoes that come out every evening and overcast day. Especially when mowing my 2 acres of "lawn." (Actually, a former hay field that has to be kept knocked down to preserve my view of the marsh and a tidal cove -- and incidentally the inflated value of the land I bought for $2,950 43 years ago.)
Maine law says once brush reaches 2 inches in diameter it can't be cut, so I mow the seedlings that emerge every week or 10 days. It's a walk behind mower, so as a bonus it keeps me in shape.
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