View Full Version : Maps & Guide book for 2013? logistics help
Even after thru-hiking the PCT & AT I STILL find it daunting to plan this thru-hike! ugggh http://postholer.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_eek.gif
Is Yogi's a good guide/place to start? What maps are ideal/best? GPS or no? best/most current place to get info on drops? water report of any kind for desert?
I'm just starting the planning so any advice on the logistics side of things (Ive got the gear side of thru-hiking down by now http://postholer.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif ) would be greatly appreciated.
Qball
AT '11
PCT '12
NeanderJoel
12-09-2012, 01:18
I've found this website quite helpful for getting a feel for the trail:
http://www.pmags.com/a-quick-and-dirty-cdt-guide
I've found this website quite helpful for getting a feel for the trail:
http://www.pmags.com/a-quick-and-dirty-cdt-guide
Thanks (again) Joel...have you hiked the CDT? what year?
NeanderJoel
12-09-2012, 03:39
Nope, I'm just planning like you, I'm heading Sobo next year if all goes according to plan. If you haven't already, you should check out the CDT 2013 facebook page. There's a lot of people on there.
NeanderJoel
12-09-2012, 03:48
Regarding logistics, somebody posted this on the CDT 2013 facebook page, it looks like it will be quite useful: http://www.soruck.net/cdt/
Even after thru-hiking the PCT & AT I STILL find it daunting to plan this thru-hike! ugggh http://postholer.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_eek.gif
Is Yogi's a good guide/place to start? What maps are ideal/best? GPS or no? best/most current place to get info on drops? water report of any kind for desert?
I'm just starting the planning so any advice on the logistics side of things (Ive got the gear side of thru-hiking down by now http://postholer.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif ) would be greatly appreciated.
Qball
AT '11
PCT '12
Personally, I think it's worthwhile to carry a mapping GPS and the Ley maps.There's no water report like the PCT. Definitely buy and read thru Yogi's book for answers to almost all of your questions, including drops.
Mags site is great, per above. Agreed on Yogi's guide --- well worth it, and answers a ton of questions (just like with the PCT if you used her guide there).
Some issues have, of course, no perfect consensus. GPS is one of those. I hiked with a guy for a while who was proud that he went without a GPS. I was happy to have and use mine, particularly at one point in southern CO when a surprise snow dump and virtual white-out conditions made it very very nice to have a GPS to get me most-efficiently through at a point when I was soaked through and chilled.
Facebook page: yes, in 2011 at least, the best way to connect with other thru-hikers and get updates on what they knew along the way was via the "that-year" facebook page.
Spirit Walker
12-09-2012, 13:20
Check out CDT-L as well. It's a low volume mailing list that has many cdt hikers on it and can be a good source of current info on the trail (i.e. water reports).
Some years hikers are very good at reporting trail and water conditions, other years they only inform a few friends if that.
handlebar
12-09-2012, 13:43
Ley's maps, Yogi's Guide town pages, mapping GPS with OOO's tracks and Bear Creek Way points are what I'd carry with me. I was glad to have the Trails Illustrated map for CO when I did a significant misplacement of the trail and rather long cross country bushwhack on the return in the San Juans. If your budget allows, you might also want the Bear Creek maps. You might also want to check out the CDT2013 Facebook group. I posted two spreadsheet files there: one is my 2010 hike plan, the other the "data book" I put together from Ley's maps. The spreadsheet is easy to modify for your own needs.
Ley's maps have very useful notes and cover the popular alternates that most take (such as the Gila vs. Black Mtn route of the "official/designated" trail). In a number of instances I also took alternates in the Bob Marshall Wilderness this past summer.
Great info, thanks everyone. I'm borrowing a good GPS from an awesome friend I met on the AT. I'm leaning towards the Bear Creek maps and using their waypoints, thoughts? or is it better to use the J Ley maps and his waypoints?
Thanks! (more questions to come im sure :)
litespeed
12-09-2012, 16:50
IMO, the Bearcreek maps and the Bearcreek waypoints are the way to go, with a few pages from the Ley maps for alternates you are interested in. Carry the Ley CD in case you run into something unexpected. You can print a couple maps if needed somewhere along the way.
If you take the Ley maps and study them next to the Bearcreek ones, you will find lots of places where they are hundreds of feet in disagreement. This is because the Bearcreek route was actually hiked and surveyed so it shows where the trail is, as opposed to a guess. That will be proven to you once you hike a short ways - the times I used my gps it showed me being within a few feet of the waypoints as I went by them. If you get off-trail, you can also figure out where you are on those maps because it has a UTM grid that matches the gps. That works very well, and I think it saved me a lot of time in a few places.
The newer Trails Illustrated maps use the Bearcreek data, particularly in Colorado and the San Juans. They are not very good for navigating, but are great for identifying mountains in the distance.
First, a BIG shout out to ALL those previous CDTers who spent(spend) the resources to help those who come after them. Their willingness to answer a few CDT questions make the CDT material easier to digest and prioritize with regards to other folk's hikes. IMO, there is no one stop shopping for all the CDT info one might need or want though.
Even after thru-hiking the PCT & AT I STILL find it daunting to plan this thru-hike! ugggh http://postholer.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_eek.gif
LOL Yeah, I felt the same way at first too. LOL. And, that was after seven long distance thru-hikes. In planning for my CDT hike, I OFTEN had CDT material covering one whole room of my house, on the walls, the floor, bed, computer, doors, shelves, bulletin boards, etc Whew! Looked like an organized tornado went through my house. And, I did quite a few maildrops so I went through all those additional logistics. I came up with some alternates not yet on Ley's maps too. The planning materials and food spilled out into the living room and up to the attic. It was total emmersion! vision quest! And, you might take into consideration, I thru -hike with a great amount of flexibility so I don't think I over plan. I was initially VERY FOGGY about what CDT advisory materials I even needed. It gets clearer though when you approach your CDT preparation as you approach an actual hike. Pade pade. Step by step. I look back on the planning and see it as such an enjoyable and knowledge gaining experience and which was actually a phase of completing the hike. It made me better able to handle the logistics of future planned thru-hikes.
Here's how I got a handle on it. Chuck it down. I did it state by state starting with Montana first since I went SOBO. I got a general feel for the CDT and the various planning materials available. I got Yogi's CDT guidebook info, Ley's mapset, Jim Wolf's guidebooks and cross referrenced that with Mag's and Spirt Walker's beta. You'll come across some redundant material so it's not so overwhelming. Prioritize and phase the material. Start wading through the beta that way. When I had specific questions not answered by any of those sources, AFTER I HAD FIRST poured over those sources, I sought out other CDTers opinions through various CDT forums. Since I'm more of a map and compass guy rather than just a GPS user just looking at Ley's individual maps made things so much clearer from a on-the-ground perspective. I had a CDT folder too and took lots of notes with post its stuck to alot of things.
Is Yogi's a good guide/place to start? What maps are ideal/best? GPS or no? best/most current place to get info on drops? water report of any kind for desert?
Absolutely.
"I'm leaning towards the Bear Creek maps and using their waypoints, thoughts? or is it better to use the J Ley maps and his waypoints?"
My opinion is that you want Ley regardless. Take Bear Creek too if you're willing to pay the price (my recollection is that they've gone on sale a time or two?) and the weight hit. And, frankly, a little schizo feeling of trying to figure out which map to look at the night before or on-the-spot. Nice indeed with Bear Creek to know that the plotted "official" route is going to be just dead accurate, and nice insofar as it's easier to read than Ley is on 8-1/2 x 11 paper. But IMO you just absolutely want Ley so you can consider the many, many alternatives along the way, plus the notes on the side are often quite helpful, particularly I think when you're in NM and want all the info you can get on water sources.
If you take both, you just sort of get used to whether you're on the "official" route or not at any given time. If you are, then I look over Ley the night before but just have Bear Creek handy to reference when I'm walking. If not, then obviously you have to refer to Ley. Note that significant chunks of the miles that a lot of people choose to walk (major alternates) aren't on the Bear Creek maps. So for example if you go the Columbus route in NM --- many many Bear Creek maps you bought for the state are just paper that's too glossy to use effectively as toilet paper. If you go Anaconda rather than Butte, ditto. Just an FYI on that.
Umm, meant to write "Chunk it down" not Chuck it down.
My opinion is that you want Ley regardless. - BrianLe
That's my take too.
litespeed
12-09-2012, 21:26
My opinion is that you want Ley regardless. Take Bear Creek too if you're willing to pay the price (my recollection is that they've gone on sale a time or two?) and the weight hit. .
I couldn't agree more with the idea of carrying a Ley CD and maybe a few printed sheets. However, for the parts that ARE on the official trail, (which is almost all of it) the BC maps are the hands down superior resource. The "weight hit" is a joke. A piece of paper with a BC map printed on it doesn't weigh any more than one with a Ley map and it's sure as hell more accurate. It's just a matter of which one you want to carry (and trust). Personally, I prefer detail and accuracy, so BC is the one.
I spent seven months on this trail. I spent a ton of money on super light gear, and the idea that I wouldn't want to "pay the price" for good information is crazy. Those maps are a bargain, because they happen to be correct.
I met several few hikers on the CDT who were "Triple Crowning" as fast as possible. They talked mostly about the towns, not the trail. They all did Columbus, which is another reason that I'm glad I did CC.
"The "weight hit" is a joke. A piece of paper with a BC map printed on it doesn't weigh any more than one with a Ley map and it's sure as hell more accurate."
I get your point on this, but OTOH --- in planning my 2011 trip I literally added a resupply point or two in order to spread the paper weight hit out! Seriously. Ley maps plus (for the southern two states for me) Bear Creek maps plus Wolf Guide pages, plus Yogi pages plus DeLorme atlas maps, plus on occasion a BLM mapsheet --- wow. Unless you bounce or mail these to a number of places, all of this totals to quite a few ounces; if you went with sort of maximal map and guidebook page options and minimal resupply mail points, you could hike out of town on occasions with over a pound of assorted paper. It can also make for quite a bit of fiddling around time at night in the tent, sorting through things.
I definitely agree that it's worth while to pay for as much information as you're willing to carry (!), and the Bear Creek maps were great maps for cases where I knew I didn't care to take any purple options --- for me, at least, this was typically decided the evening before by reviewing the available options via Ley (and indeed, sometimes Wolf). So I thought it was worth while having Ley maps for the entire trail, just so I could easily consider all of the more minor route alternates all the way along, and read whatever notes Ley added --- but carrying two complete sets of maps is a bit of a weight hit.
litespeed
12-10-2012, 11:23
Different philosophies, I guess. The CDT has seemed like such a disorganized mess for so long that for the most part, I embraced the level of organization afforded by having a solid, clearly defined route to follow with good maps. I almost exclusively used BC but I carried Ley and NG for a few places where I wanted to stray a bit. I ended up printing a few maps from the CD to get around a fire in MT, which is why I think it's a good idea to have it. I put the CD, Yogi and my maps in a bounce box and never carried more than 25 sheets anywhere, so the weight wasn't a issue. The thought never occurred to me to carry a complete set of each, and I'm glad I didn't - that seems like a waste of pack space that could be used to hold a bit more food.
For the most part, I was impressed by the official route. I didn't take any cutoffs or shortcuts and enjoyed it all. There seems to be a lot of trail building going on out there to get off of roads, and I found more markers and signs than I had expected. I have worked on trail crews in CO and NM a few times and it was really cool hiking the parts I have worked on.
postholer.com
12-10-2012, 14:02
Having never set foot on the CDT...
As of 2 years ago there was no 'official' route maps. That speaks volumes for the effort of Bear Creek (http://www.bearcreeksurvey.com/) and the USFS who made this happen.
Hikers now have the option of actually hiking the 'official' CDT. That's a really big deal! Bear Creek provides accurate, detailed maps and way points.
As mentioned, the Ley maps are a great alternative resource for alternate routes.
Going forward, the transition will be from Ley maps to the 'official' Bear Creek maps. Ley maps have much history and a huge CDT following. Hikers who have successfully used them carry that enertia.
If I was going to hike the CDT I'd definitely use the Bear Creek maps and way points. I'd carry a soft copy of Ley maps. The accuracy and current nature of the Bear Creek trace and way points can't be denied.
-postholer
I see more people carrying the Bear Creek maps for the majority of the route but using the J Ley maps for such traditional areas off the 'official' route such as the Gila (history, awesome scenery and water) , parts of the Winds (the more obscure, but well known, semi-social trails deep in the heart in the Winds) , the 13 ers near James Peak (an awesome ridge walk too burly for horses, biker and some hikers) and so on.
As I like to say, the CDNST and the CDT often coincide but not always. :)
Personally, I think it is great there are so many options.
I also think you are going to see more open ended trails/routes and less well defined one like the PCT and AT. The CDT (and its Canadian cousin - the GDT) is a hybrid.
Such 'trails' as the Grand Enchantment Trail, the Hayduke and so on are more what you are going to see for hiking long distances.
I think you hit the nail on the head Litespeed, it's a matter of different hiking philopsophies and what someone feels most comfortable with. Personally, doing the CDT without a GPS and instead opting for map and compass navigation when needed I had NO issue whatsover in the detail with Ley's maps for navigation. I did have to use the magnifier on my compass though since I printed his maps in color on 8.5X11 paper.
I think BrianLe has a very valid pt. The wt and volume of all these maps(Ley, BC, Nat Geo Trails Ill, DeLorme, BLM, Nat Forest, etc) DEFINITELY can add up as well as the total costs for all these maps. Since Ley's maps are CERTAINLY usable and kept up to date and include many insightful notes and alternates AND they can be had for a donation they can, and will continue to be used. I think it can really help, and is advisable, based on start times, yearly weather differeces, etc to get the "small" view(Ley, BC maps) as well as the "large" view(NG TI, DeLormes, BLM, Forest, etc) that shows possiible bail out routes, lower elev routes, etc so you are sometimes taking two views of the route already. I agree with other opinions, if you are thinking about doing alternates, and I think most CDTers do take at least a few alternates to customize their route, you probably would want Ley's maps, or at least a few of them, which sometimes show several possible alternates as well as the most commonly hiked route. Let's not forget how much time is involved putting all that info together and keeping it up to date on a yearly basis! BC maps, which are great, and indeed someone has hiked that route, IT IS STILL SOMETIMES, showing just that, a route, that someone took. In other words their wasn't always a trail or tread under BC's feet because NO actual trail exists in some places on the CDT! This fact is what attracts some hikers to the CDT. It increases the sense of adventure and exploration on a thru-hike. The CDT IS NOT entirely a turn your mind off and follow the beaten path type thru-hike. I think that's GOOD, at least for some. The CDT is NOT a paint(hike) by the numbers(blazes, signs, etc) type trail/route. It seems some hikers want to hike the CDT as if their are blazes - in the form of way pts. It's also why I like Andrew Skurka's mapsets for the Sierra High Route and Hayduke Trail; he doesn't draw a line on a map to imply the trail is here! He fornats these maps to allow for an increased sense of adventure and exploration by customizing your own route. Personally, I hope the CDT stays this way but I also appreciate that there are options for hikers who hike differently.
As far as CDT maps, Yogi's CDT Guide has lots of GREAT WELL organized info concerning this and gives reasons why she advises taking some supplemental maps in certain places on the CDT. The various other CDT sources such as Mag's and Spirit Walker's beta also explain what and why certain maps were taken based on their individual hiking styles.
bamboo bob
12-11-2012, 15:36
They talked mostly about the towns, not the trail. They all did Columbus, which is another reason that I'm glad I did CC.
That is very true but it's true for every trip I've ever been on. A few weeks in and it's all about the next town. Not the Moose or the bear or the swimming or the peak or the view or the stars. It's the AYCE and the bed and the shower. Human nature i think.
Even after thru-hiking the PCT & AT I STILL find it daunting to plan this thru-hike! ugggh http://postholer.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_eek.gif
Is Yogi's a good guide/place to start? What maps are ideal/best? GPS or no? best/most current place to get info on drops? water report of any kind for desert?
I'm just starting the planning so any advice on the logistics side of things (Ive got the gear side of thru-hiking down by now http://postholer.com/forum/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif ) would be greatly appreciated.
Qball
AT '11
PCT '12
In the past few days I've added several pages and linked just about everything imaginable pertaining to the CDT to the mailing label page. The links to the links are along the bottom of every page.
http://www.soruck.net/cdt/
I met several few hikers on the CDT who were "Triple Crowning" as fast as possible. They talked mostly about the towns, not the trail. They all did Columbus, which is another reason that I'm glad I did CC.
I'm trying to decide what this actually means? By my calculations the Columbus route is actually longer than the "official" route, so any idea of finishing the trail quicker is moot.
I also take exception to any slight on Jim Wolf, because if it wasn't for him, it's most likely there wouldn't even be a CDNST.
In the past few days I've added several pages and linked just about everything imaginable pertaining to the CDT to the mailing label page. The links to the links are along the bottom of every page.
http://www.soruck.net/cdt/
I added the useful link to my little doc in the RESUPPLY section.
I added the useful link to my little doc in the RESUPPLY section.
You da man Mags.
Sorry I missed the part about you actually getting married, congrats!
You da man Mags.
Sorry I missed the part about you actually getting married, congrats!
Thanks! Have yet to sleep on the coach yet... :)