View Full Version : Firefly wood stove (2.7oz) - totally badass
Hosaphone
12-15-2012, 03:08
Rather than add to the on-going discussion in other threads, I wanted to give this its own thread as kind of a mini-review.
http://hikeitlikeit.com/wordpress_files/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/2012-04_0142-web-400x285.jpg
First Impressions:
Got my FireFly stove in the mail today. This is my third wood stove, and I'm fairly certain it will be my last. I started out with the Ti-Tri caldera cone, got the inferno insert for it, picked up a bushbuddy, and just got this FireFly.
My FireFly weighs in at around 2.7oz with the flexport side option. The reinforced tyvek pouch QiWiz included weighs in at nearly 1/2oz so I probably won't use it. Luckily, the stove came in a great USPS tyvek mailer! I have also found that it fits perfectly on the bottom of my pot cozy underneath my 900ml pot. That would be the ideal way to store it for no weight penalty, but I'm thinking about changing to a smaller pot so that may not be possible anymore.
Had time to do ~5 quick burns in it today and am super impressed with this stove so far. I took it apart and put it together again in between burns just to try to gain more experience with it. Soot on the fingers is a complete non-issue. You handle the sides along the edges, and they basically just fall right into place when you're assembling it.
Feeding wood through the top with a pot on it is easy enough - par for the course, pretty much. The flexport is cool to have but I don't really see myself using it all that often. Kind of wish I had gotten it as a 5th side so I could just use the basic stove, but it only adds like .2 of an ounce so whatever.
Using it:
The thing I was most excited about with this stove is the fact that it has a mesh grate on the bottom. Theoretically this would make it easier to light because you can get at your tinder from the bottom. I have to say that this feature FAR surpassed my expectations. It is so ridiculously easy to get a fire going in this thing. It takes off like a rocket compared to my BushBuddy and Ti-Tri/inferno.
I think the tinder just has a lot more air available to it due to the open bottom design of the stove. For instance, in the BushBuddy when lighting tinder, if everything wasn't extremely dry I would often have tinder burning on one side and then have to work it over to the other side to get everything going and it was very precarious and a hassle. In the FireFly, all the tinder ignites very quickly, and burns much more intensely so it gets the kindling going faster too. Starting fires just feels much more "secure" - there isn't as much fiddling, huffing and puffing required because the fire can grab so much air, and all that air is feeding it from the bottom. It's a bit hard to describe but it just feels completely different from the other 2 woodburners I have used. I'm sure this is not unique to the FireFly and there are other stoves that are this easy to light, but compared to my BushBuddy and Ti-Tri it's an amazing difference.
With the BushBuddy I found the top-down burn technique to be the easiest because it was so hard and annoying to light tinder in the bottom of the stove. With the FireFly, though, I can just turn it on its side and easily light the tinder with a lighter. I found I could throw some wood shavings in the stove, light them, throw a few twigs in haphazardly, and immediately put the pot on while continuing to feed twigs through the top. With so much air available through the bottom grate, there is really no way to smother to flame this way. With the BushBuddy I need to wait several minutes for the flame to establish itself and start burning down before putting the pot on.
I know everyone loves the top-down method, but I find it to just not be very effective unless you have dry wood and excellent tinder. For 3 season hiking in New England, this is often not the case...
Boil with one load?
One thing I was hoping I'd be able to do with this stove is load it up once with wood, light it, and set it off to the side and have it boil 2 cups with no further feeding. The idea being that I'm at a shelter or something and it's raining, and I want to use wood. I want to be able to put the stove out in the rain, far away from people so the smoke won't bother them, and have it boil without me needing to sit there and feed it twigs.
I tried twice and was moderately successful. I put some wood shavings in the bottom and loaded it up with sticks as tightly as I could, lit the shavings, immediately put the pot on, and walked away. As expected this produced a ridiculous amount of smoke, but thanks to the grate on the bottom providing tons of air it didn't get smothered and go out like would happen if I tried this with my BushBuddy.
I was able to get weak boils both times I tried it in 30* temps with some wind and semi-rotten wood. No rolling boil, but it easily got the water hot enough that I could have cooked up a pasta side. I imagine I'll get better at loading the stove with more practice - I was kind of throwing sticks in wherever I could fit them. Can probably fit more if I turn the stove on its side and stack the pieces in vertically like that. Or I could just walk out and add a few twigs when it's halfway through burning.
It took around 6-7 minutes to get that weak boil after I lit it. It takes longer from start to finish this way since you need to carefully load the stove, but this technique could be useful from time to time.
Alcohol?
I decided against the multi-fuel option on my stove. Basically the multifuel option is just a couple little wires attached to support a wind screen, and an aluminum stand to raise the height of the alcohol/esbit burner.
I was aiming to be able to cook meals with 1/2 an ounce of alcohol. I figured this would require either the windscreen or a reflectix cozy. Since I wanted a cozy anyways to protect everything from soot on the pot, it seemed an easy choice to ditch the wind screen. This seems to have been a good decision.
I'm getting wimpy almost-boils with 1/2 an ounce of alcohol in a 12-10 trail designs burner, 25* temperatures on my back porch. I made my own little burner support to bring the burner closer to the pot. I will have to experiment more with other types of alcohol burner, as the trail designs one may not be the best choice here.
One trick for cooking with less fuel is to use less water. With less water to heat, the water you have will get hotter. You can also put your food into the water before putting it on the heat, which gives it more time to cook. I cooked up a pasta side this way. About 2 minutes in the magical reflectix cozy afterwards and it was perfectly done.
Conclusion
I'm very happy with this stove. I can only think of two possible improvements: It would be nice if it had hinges, although maybe not because that would add more weight. If a very minimal hinge design could be used and the weight kept under 3oz, it would probably be worth it I think. However I'm not sure if that's possible... I think it could also get away with using thinner titanium. My Ti-Tri seems to use a thinner material and does just fine burning wood. I don't know much about the properties of titanium, though, so I could be wrong there too.
The two main reasons I was interested in it were the low weight (one of the lightest wood stoves available) and the mesh bottom. It surpassed my expectations here and I already appreciate how much easier it makes bottom lighting.
...Anybody want to buy a BushBuddy?
Nice review, thanks for sharing your new found joy. Any container we buy to burn wood in should be a joy. Once we learn how to build fires in these little containers we'll be off to a good start. Only 3 ways to learn....practice, practice, and more practice.
Starchild
12-15-2012, 12:10
My question and concern is on the grate on the bottom, how would you expect that to hold up? I have experienced that any metal grate that is used to hold up solid fuel will eventually disintegrate, it's just a question of how long. Any thought to that?
Old Hiker
12-15-2012, 12:27
2nd question on the grate: (assuming hot coals and ash will fallout of the bottom) is it necessary to place the stove on a fireproof surface?
3rd question: how long do any coals last after the water boils for use?
Thanks.
...Anybody want to buy a BushBuddy?
Don't get rid of it till you learn how to make the firefly work. You have to be able to get the stove going well enough to be able to put a pot on it with out it going out. By the time the firefly gets to that point you may only be able to boil 1 cup of water. You may come to a point where you'll want the bushbuddies larger fuel capacity and better pot support. Videos of a stove in action are worth billions of photos;) We want to see how long from lighting with match to placing pot onto the stove without it going out. we want to see the smoke:D
Hosaphone
12-15-2012, 20:47
My question and concern is on the grate on the bottom, how would you expect that to hold up? I have experienced that any metal grate that is used to hold up solid fuel will eventually disintegrate, it's just a question of how long. Any thought to that?
Well I can't speak from experience, but the website says the mesh is made of stainless steel. I believe the bottom grate of the BushBuddy is also stainless steel and I haven't heard any bad durability reports there. I'm not really concerned about it at all and expect it to last for many years. I suppose if I'm wrong and it gives out after a couple years I can buy/make another one.
2nd question on the grate: (assuming hot coals and ash will fallout of the bottom) is it necessary to place the stove on a fireproof surface?
It's mostly just ash that falls out the bottom, and the coals stay inside because the openings in the mesh are pretty small (1/4 inch). QiWiz recommends putting it on a fireproof surface and/or using a piece of aluminum under it. This seems wise if you're on pine duff or other flammable stuff. I didn't use a ground shield and didn't notice any scorching. I'll probably forgo the ground shield and just be careful about where I use the stove.
3rd question: how long do any coals last after the water boils for use?
I didn't really have much time to experiment with this since I was in a rush and just wanted to start a bunch of fires and boil a bunch of water. I did pretty quick burns using a lot of little stuff that burned completely, leaving not much behind. This is one area that the BushBuddy may have an advantage in, I'm not sure. There tends to be a lot more "hot stuff" that accumulates in the bottom of the bushbuddy, though much of it is probably ash and not coals necessarily. But I think that the BushBuddy would probably stay hot longer because of its more enclosed design.
One thing you might be able to do if you want to cook things slowly or simmer, is to use the flexport and feed in just a couple bigger pieces of wood. This gives you a consistent, small flame.
I can experiment a bit with coals next chance I get - I never really waited for the coals to burn themselves out completely, just dumped the stove over and started again.
I know QiWiz also makes a solid floor which might be better for collecting coals. The Emberlit stove has a solid bottom but weighs 2+ ounces more.
Don't get rid of it till you learn how to make the firefly work. You have to be able to get the stove going well enough to be able to put a pot on it with out it going out. By the time the firefly gets to that point you may only be able to boil 1 cup of water. You may come to a point where you'll want the bushbuddies larger fuel capacity and better pot support. Videos of a stove in action are worth billions of photos;) We want to see how long from lighting with match to placing pot onto the stove without it going out. we want to see the smoke:D
So the thing about the FireFly is that I've been bottom lighting it. I literally just toss tinder in the bottom with a few little twigs, light it, add a few more twigs, and then put the pot on. It's like 30 seconds from lighting -> pot on top. I'm basically getting a flame started and then slowly building the fire as I go, rather than "loading it up" before lighting. The smoke is definitely worse doing this compared to top lighting with a BushBuddy but it's not too bad. I also have to wait like 5 minutes or more before putting the pot on with the bushbuddy unless the wood is really dry and/or small.
The times I fully loaded the stove up to try to burn in 1 load, I also bottom lit. Packed it as tightly as I could, lit the tinder on the bottom, and immediately put the pot on top. Because the tinder has all the air it needs from the bottom, it doesn't go out. It does produce an incredible amount of smoke, but in the situation where I would use this technique that doesn't matter. I wanted to be able to get the fire going out of the rain, and then put the stove outside with the pot on top once lit to avoid smoking out a shelter or tarp. This wouldn't be possible with a top-down burn because with the tinder on top you can't put the pot on too early or it chokes out the flame.
I expect that if I loaded the FireFly for a top-down burn, it would not be as effective as a top-down burn with the bushbuddy due to the small firebox and the fact that the only air comes from the top and the bottom grate whereas the bushbuddy has those "secondary combustion" holes near the top. I think you are correct in your assumption that by the time the stove gets going to the point that you can put a pot on it, it will have already consumed a lot of the wood you loaded.
However..... Here's a video of a top-down burn with the firefly using pot supports to keep the pot up a bit higher. I imagine this allows you to put the pot on much sooner and thus make better use of the wood. I will have to play around with this. There's also a shoutout to you, Zelph, at 5:50 in the video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1GyV2h2EqE
I also have a FireFly and always get a good boil from one loosely packed load. The difference is that I rarely boil more than 12oz of water. I also am a fan of the top down burn for two reasons. One...I think it lasts longer and two it's les smokey if you allow it to burn cleanly prior to placing your pot on the stove. Frankly I can't thing of ANY meal that I cook that needs more than 12oz of water. Most commercial meals are too soupy if I put in the recommended amount of water anyway. If I do need to boil more water I only need to put a few more sticks in under the pot to extend the burn time. The other thing is...I rarely if ever cook under a shelter. If I did I'd probably break out whatever backup fuel I would be carrying....normally an Esbit.
BTW...the supports for the Esbit and alky stove that are sold with the FireFly, work VERY well. He has obviously experimented with the distance between the fuel source and the pot as I am getting very efficient boil times with both Esbit and alcohol. I use one of Zelph's Starlites with the pot supports removed when I'm in alky mode. At this point my backup is Esbit. I can boil 12oz of agua with half a tab. Of course when in Esbit/alky mode a windscreen greaty increases efficiency. The windscreen supports weigh almost nothing and work great.
I think the FireFly is an awesome little stove and highly recommend it.
Cat in the Hat
I am always pleased when folks like their FireFly. Thanks for the positive feedback.
I had always lit my wood stoves from the bottom, taking advantage of the chimney effect of air flow though the stove. Then I kept hearing about the advantages of top lighting. Zelph is rightly a big proponent of this. His advice and others' (yes, you, Medicineman) made me try it and it can work well with less smoke, and if you load the stove up well, you can bring 3 cups of water to a boil on one load of twigs, even with a relatively small UL stove like the FireFly. The video included a couple posts higher (post from Hoseaphone) shows this technique.
But for you bottom lighting fans, here's a video I made very early on, right after I switched to 1/4" stainless steel mesh for the standard floor.
http://youtu.be/Js86FfmhQ2g
You can see that it is smokier, but works just fine and gets a hot fire going quickly if you use your tinder to get a loose mass of twigs lit, then feed the fire with more twigs as it gets going. This IMO is the best bottom lighting technique. If you want to pack the stove with twigs and hope to cook with just one load, you are better off using a top lighting technique. If your wood is damp or of poor quality, a bottom lighting technique might be the best approach, though you will get lots of smoke in the first part of the burn as the fire gets going.
So what do I do now with my own FireFly? Most of the time for a dinner, I use top down lighting with an open FlexPort that lets me feed longer twigs into the fire to keep it burning. In the morning, I usually just make quick fire with the Port closed to heat up water for coffee and hot cereal. I'll use top lighting if my twigs are dry and bottom lighting if they are not. So there you have it!
My question and concern is on the grate on the bottom, how would you expect that to hold up? I have experienced that any metal grate that is used to hold up solid fuel will eventually disintegrate, it's just a question of how long. Any thought to that?
The bottom mesh is welded (not woven) stainless steel with 1/4 inch spacing. Should last a good long while, and can be replaced if it does wear out. If you want a stove floor that lasts forever, I do have an optional notched titanium floor, and a perforated stainless steel plate floor.
Hosaphone
12-20-2012, 00:09
It's been raining off and on for the past 3 days, so I figured it was a good time to go out and do some more testing!
I didn't get the same "BLAST OFF!" effect with damp tinder and kindling as I was getting with dry stuff a few days ago, but it is still trivial to light compared to my BushBuddy. I just love starting fires in this thing.
However, I did find that even using all small pieces of wood, I was getting an unacceptable amount of smoke today. Even once the fire was going well, as soon as I'd put the pot on, it would just smoke like crazy. I haven't encountered this problem before with the stove - previously it seemed that no matter if I put the pot on right away, the fire was still able to suck up enough oxygen from below and it wasn't an issue. Not so today.
I'm sure damp wood didn't help the smoke issue, but I think that was only part of the problem. I'm pretty sure that for whatever reason - either due to the type, dampness, greenness or rottenness of the wood - the bottom grate was getting clogged up. I noticed I had a much more solid bed of coals in the bottom than I did in any of my previous tests - probably not a good thing in this case. I tried opening the flexport and that helped a little but I was still getting too much smoke.
It eventually occurred to me to use the large pot supports to put more space between the pot and the flame. Doing this pretty much solved the issue and brought the smoke down to BushBuddy levels, but it makes the whole thing less stable and I'm sure it's quite a bit less efficient (using my small-ish pot) if it's breezy. The loss of efficiency doesn't really bother me, but I'll have to make sure to find good, flat spots to put it.
I was hoping to avoid using the pot supports because it's just one more tiny piece to lose, but it seems like they might be necessary or at least very helpful in some situations. I suppose using them would also allow me to do top-down burns more efficiently, so maybe I should have been planning to carry them anyways. Maybe I'll see if I can buy a 10-pack of them from QiWiz if I develop a habit of losing them :p
Also, today further confirmed my finding that soot is a total non-issue. Had some very smokey fires and plenty of soot on the inside of the stove, but I've refined my method for putting it together and taking it apart and got almost nothing on my fingers. Due to the way the sides fit together, none of the outer edges are inside the firebox. This gives you a good surface for handling it. However, I often got a tiny bit of soot on my fingers when opening or closing the flexport door. You can do it with a stick or knife, but it's pretty stiff and is kind of a pain to do it that way.
All in all, still digging it. Easier to light, capable of bottom lighting OR top lighting, the flexport is actually pretty handy, and it saves me 3oz over my BushBuddy setup. Downsides are that it does produce more smoke unless you use the large pot supports, takes 30 seconds to put together, and has parts you can lose.
MuddyWaters
12-20-2012, 00:13
This is my third wood stove, and I'm fairly certain it will be my last.
You are obviously in denial of your problem.
but it makes the whole thing less stable and I'm sure it's quite a bit less efficient (using my small-ish pot) if it's breezy. The loss of efficiency doesn't really bother me,
Yes, he's in denial.
Any reason QiWiz doesn't design the stove so the pot supports are higher????
Are these stoves handmade or are they lazer cut cnc?
Yes, he's in denial.
Any reason QiWiz doesn't design the stove so the pot supports are higher????
Are these stoves handmade or are they lazer cut cnc?
hello all. i have been enjoying the firefly -- have just top lit it so far, but will try bottom lighting when using wet wood next time. about the height of the pot above the flame-- i use a heine pot with the lowest pot holder rods that qiwiz supplies with the stove. the heine pot is so small it leaves plenty of air space... do you think there would be any advantage to having a heine pot higher on the stove? i also find it so easy to add wood from above with the heine pot because the corners of the stove aren't blocked by the pot.
Hosaphone
12-20-2012, 18:46
You are obviously in denial of your problem.
It's true... I have to admit I'm already pondering how I could make a Ti-Tri work better with wood. I love how ridiculously stable the cones are, how weight efficient and fuel efficient with alcohol they are... But man I just love how trivially easy it is to get a good flame going with the FireFly. I also find that I need substantially less tinder with the Firefly than I need to get my BushBuddy or Ti-Tri/inferno going.
It might work to weld together the grate/stand/inferno cone, because then you could pick it up and light from the bottom as you can do with the Firefly, and you don't have a bunch of tiny, invisible-on-the-ground-in-the-dark, easy-to-forget-they're-even-there parts to lose. But you'd probably lose the ability to store it in your pot if you did that. Maybe have have the grate part of the inferno attach to the cone with a slot+tab system like how the Emberlit floor attaches to the sides - this would allow the inferno cone to assemble into 1 part and eliminate the need for the grate stand. Now there's an idea...
But this thread is about the FireFly....
Yes, he's in denial.
Any reason QiWiz doesn't design the stove so the pot supports are higher????
Are these stoves handmade or are they lazer cut cnc?
Not sure how it's made.
Not sure why the built-in pot supports aren't higher. I guess you lose efficiency, assuming the fire is getting enough oxygen at their current level. Making the built-in supports higher would mean that the stove doesn't do as good a job at being a wind screen for alcohol, though you could counteract that by bringing an aluminum one. Would add a tiny amount of weight, but make the stove take up a little bit more room.
In theory, if the stove works as-is for most people, including pot supports as he does is a good solution, though I hate little parts that can get lost.
There could be some problem with my technique or something which was giving me lots of smoke. Maybe I shouldn't have jammed as much wood into the flexport or clogged up the corners with sticks.
hello all. i have been enjoying the firefly -- have just top lit it so far, but will try bottom lighting when using wet wood next time. about the height of the pot above the flame-- i use a heine pot with the lowest pot holder rods that qiwiz supplies with the stove. the heine pot is so small it leaves plenty of air space... do you think there would be any advantage to having a heine pot higher on the stove? i also find it so easy to add wood from above with the heine pot because the corners of the stove aren't blocked by the pot.
Interesting point. The pot I've been testing with has a ~4.5 inch diameter. The Firefly is only ~4.5 inches across on the diagonal so a more narrow pot probably doesn't block off as much air. If the flame is getting enough oxygen, I don't see any reason it would be useful to raise the pot further away from the flame...
Waiting to receive a new pot that should have around a 3.8" diameter. May work better with the firefly sans supports. The built-in supports are ~3.25" apart, so a 3.5-4" diameter pot may be just about optimal if you want to forgo using supports. Just speculation, though.
Hosaphone, get yourself a heine or foster pot like 1azarus uses on his stove. Then you can ditch the small parts. I sell some kick-ass foster pots with ridges and flat bottoms that are known to be stonger than the heinekens:D Also have a few esbit/alcohol burners to use as a companion to your stove. Easy to place it through the stoves side port.
magic_game03
12-21-2012, 00:06
This whole forum is as getto as a trailer park downtown. I'm lost in so many ways that I've made myself dizzy. After a long hard day of hiking the last thing I want to do is spend a half hour looking around for twigs, prepping a small fire. I watched the film and who ever geewiz is, it took him 17 minutes to get some bubbles on the bottom of his pot (and he already had the twigs ready). And that appeared to be under ideal conditions; no rain, dry twigs, fire was on stone, no wind, no adverse issues. So here are some of my questions...
What are you going to do at the shelter? burn on the table or in the shelter, or are you going to cook on the ground and keep stooping to check your food? What if it's pouring down rain and very windy are you going to use it in your tent or in the shelter with a dozen other hikers? what if it's one of those 40mph windy days? What are you going to do when you enter an area that doesn't allow burning except for stoves, you can claim you have a stove but a ranger is not going to see it that way when he hands you a $250 ticket. What if you're hiking and you just want a cup of tea, do you really expect to go through all that to get some hot tea. What if you want tea on top of a summit and there are no trees around, do you now have to pack in twigs? Why not just build a little camp fire with a high rock fire ring? I've used little fires my first thru hike and it seemed to get soot everywhere, am I to believe that soot is no issue? Where ever you put your pot it's going to rub off and eventually get on other things, yes? can you show us a video of how long it takes to boil in the rain? or after a big rain when everything is wet? or on a very windy day, like it often can be at, above 3,000ft? And tell us where you expect to start this fire (shelter/tent)? What happens if you need to boil something for a while, can you show us the video of you cooking a meal (and not ramen)?
sincerely,
Confused and Baffled
P.S. I don't doubt it's workable, in the middle of the summer I'm sure it's a champ, but it's raining hard here right now and I just can't imagine giving up my butane stove for that, especially like it is now.
Hosaphone
12-21-2012, 01:27
It would be hard to argue that a wood stove is "better" than alcohol, esbit or canister. You can save a substantial amount of weight by not needing to carry fuel, but the additional hassle factor is probably not worth it unless you're a bit crazy or just enjoy it.
I would also add that I'm not a thru hiker (yet!). I'm not sure if a wood stove would be a good fit for me on a thru-hike... I'd have to try it and see. It's possible that I'd get tired of the hassle and go back to using alcohol. On the other hand, maybe having a mini campfire for a few minutes while eating dinner would be a great way to end each day and would boost my morale. Thus far, for the shorter trips I do, I'm not the kind to want to eat and pass out as quickly as possible. That could very well change, I don't know.
That said:
I watched the film and who ever geewiz is, it took him 17 minutes to get some bubbles on the bottom of his pot (and he already had the twigs ready). And that appeared to be under ideal conditions; no rain, dry twigs, fire was on stone, no wind, no adverse issues.
Under reasonable conditions with twigs ready to go, you can go from stove setup -> boil in less than 10 minutes pretty easily.
What are you going to do at the shelter? burn on the table or in the shelter, or are you going to cook on the ground and keep stooping to check your food?
Find a place to sit, use it on the ground most likely. I haven't noticed any scorching and you could always put a piece of tinfoil underneath if you wanted to use it on a table or something, though the smoke may bother other people so maybe not a good idea.
What if it's pouring down rain and very windy are you going to use it in your tent or in the shelter with a dozen other hikers? what if it's one of those 40mph windy days? What are you going to do when you enter an area that doesn't allow burning except for stoves, you can claim you have a stove but a ranger is not going to see it that way when he hands you a $250 ticket. What if you're hiking and you just want a cup of tea, do you really expect to go through all that to get some hot tea. What if you want tea on top of a summit and there are no trees around, do you now have to pack in twigs?
I use a tarp, so if it's raining I can put it outside a bit and tend to it fairly easily while staying dry and without killing myself via CO or burning down a tent.
Worst case scenario - rain, other hikers, no wood, burn restrictions, just want a quick cup of tea, etc - you can carry a couple ounces of alcohol and an alcohol stove. 1/2oz plus a cozy can easily cook a pasta side or similar meal.
Why not just build a little camp fire with a high rock fire ring?
I think some people do do this... But it's a hassle, takes time, doesn't heat the water as efficiently and requires more wood, isn't LNT, much tougher in the rain, and it's about 200% easier to start a fire and cook something in a wood stove like this than it is to do it on the ground.
I've used little fires my first thru hike and it seemed to get soot everywhere, am I to believe that soot is no issue? Where ever you put your pot it's going to rub off and eventually get on other things, yes?
Soot is a complete non-issue. I have a reflectix cozy that helps for using alcohol more efficiently. The pot spends all of its time either on a stove or in its cozy. Keeps your food hot and your pants clean!
can you show us a video of how long it takes to boil in the rain? or after a big rain when everything is wet? or on a very windy day, like it often can be at, above 3,000ft? And tell us where you expect to start this fire (shelter/tent)?
Again worst case scenario alcohol is always an option. You can almost always find dry wood and tinder if you look in the right places, it's just more of a pain if it's been raining for days. One option is to carry a gallon ziplock and collect a bunch of tinder if you expect rain, or vaseline cotton balls will get even damp twigs burning. Once you get it going, the stronger the flame gets, the less it matters if you feed it damp wood.
What happens if you need to boil something for a while, can you show us the video of you cooking a meal (and not ramen)?
This is actually an area where wood stoves excel. Your fuel supply is basically infinite, so boiling something for longer is no problem - just keep tossing wood in. You can also control the flame by how you feed it.
P.S. I don't doubt it's workable, in the middle of the summer I'm sure it's a champ, but it's raining hard here right now and I just can't imagine giving up my butane stove for that, especially like it is now.
Can almost always find dry-enough wood. If nothing is readily available, you can grab any chunk of wood that isn't completely water logged/rotten and start a fire with it using a firesteel in the rain... It's just a question of how long you want to spend preparing fuel.
It's certainly not for everybody... I have a feeling after a month or two on the AT I would tire of it and switch back to alcohol, but it's hard to say. For the trips I do right now, a wood stove is fantastic. And you can always just use alcohol if you don't feel like going to the trouble.
Hosaphone
12-21-2012, 01:28
I have this habit of making ridiculously long posts :o
Hosaphone
12-21-2012, 01:55
I mean heck, my FireFly cooking setup weighs ~8oz for stove, alcohol stove, pot, cozy, big ziplock and tiny piece of towel. Could switch out the pot for a Fosters/Heinie can and drop that down to less than 6oz (though I wonder about the durability of a beer can pot when used on a wood fire?). Make the cozy out of Tyvek instead of reflectix and you're down to 5oz.
The lightest possible alcohol setup is probably around 2-3oz for stove+pot+wind screen. The Caldera Cone ULC with an 850ml pot is around 5oz for stove+pot+cone.
At 8oz for everything, even if I were to use alcohol 100% of the time, it's not a terrible setup for that and would still come in at less weight than many canister stove setups.
MuddyWaters
12-21-2012, 02:18
I think its great to play with different methods , and like reading about it. Thats how learning and improvement occurs.
Hairbear
12-21-2012, 05:41
I am always pleased when folks like their FireFly. Thanks for the positive feedback.
I had always lit my wood stoves from the bottom, taking advantage of the chimney effect of air flow though the stove. Then I kept hearing about the advantages of top lighting. Zelph is rightly a big proponent of this. His advice and others' (yes, you, Medicineman) made me try it and it can work well with less smoke, and if you load the stove up well, you can bring 3 cups of water to a boil on one load of twigs, even with a relatively small UL stove like the FireFly. The video included a couple posts higher (post from Hoseaphone) shows this technique.
But for you bottom lighting fans, here's a video I made very early on, right after I switched to 1/4" stainless steel mesh for the standard floor.
http://youtu.be/Js86FfmhQ2g
You can see that it is smokier, but works just fine and gets a hot fire going quickly if you use your tinder to get a loose mass of twigs lit, then feed the fire with more twigs as it gets going. This IMO is the best bottom lighting technique. If you want to pack the stove with twigs and hope to cook with just one load, you are better off using a top lighting technique. If your wood is damp or of poor quality, a bottom lighting technique might be the best approach, though you will get lots of smoke in the first part of the burn as the fire gets going.
So what do I do now with my own FireFly? Most of the time for a dinner, I use top down lighting with an open FlexPort that lets me feed longer twigs into the fire to keep it burning. In the morning, I usually just make quick fire with the Port closed to heat up water for coffee and hot cereal. I'll use top lighting if my twigs are dry and bottom lighting if they are not. So there you have it!
merry xmas you just got some of my money, im adding it to my cook kit.
magic_game03
12-21-2012, 09:47
Great responses Hosaphone, looks like you've got a plan. I've got three questions.
First, you said you have a tarp for personal shelter. Have you tried setting it up and getting the fire started on a very windy wet day? Notice I didn't say cold, because you will still have wet windy days throughout the year on the AT beyond the cold season.
Second, Do you use a wind screen?
Third, What is your entire set up and how much does it weigh? You also say that you can use a firesteel and alcohol, are you carrying all this other equipment for back up?
The video (from Qi wiz) also shows a cotton ball used as a primer, how are you priming?
I'm not completely sold but it's good to see you have rationalized these issues Hosaphone. I agree with you Muddywaters, you will never learn and understand if you don't do some trial and error testing. Heck, my first hike was a true learning experience. I started with white gas, moved to alcohol, supplemented with ground fires, then was given a snow peak (always thankful to jeepman and catfish outta GA) with fuel in Gorham NH, and finished my trip with it. I've been a sucker for butane ever since. Here's the video that I'd really like to see, one that represents a real hike scenario. Start a timer so that the viewer can see it. Pick up your twigs, set the stove up from scratch, get your fire started, get the water on and cook a lipton meal. When the lipton meal is finished, show us the results and the timer. Then do it again in wet, windy, or wet-windy weather with a timer under a tarp like you would have to do in the woods. Then I will be a believer. Unfortunately, the videos that Qi Wiz is showing is only on perfect days when a lot of hikers don't cook as much.
Hosaphone
12-21-2012, 14:56
First, you said you have a tarp for personal shelter. Have you tried setting it up and getting the fire started on a very windy wet day? Notice I didn't say cold, because you will still have wet windy days throughout the year on the AT beyond the cold season.
With a tarp, site selection is important. In New England and I'm sure on most of the AT, you can usually find sites that are fairly sheltered from wind thanks to all the trees we have. Also, a tarp can be pitched in many different ways. For instance, a lean-to or a half-pyramid pitch will block the wind much better than an A-frame.
Second, Do you use a wind screen?
No wind screen here. With wood since you have unlimited fuel, efficiency is not much of an issue. In very dry and windy conditions you need to be careful of not starting a forest fire. With alcohol you can use it in a more sheltered spot (right inside tarp or shelter, etc) so wind screen is not as necessary.
If I was doing a lot of above treeline camping, theoretically, I'd probably need a wind screen and mostly use alcohol, or switch to a canister stove.
Third, What is your entire set up and how much does it weigh? You also say that you can use a firesteel and alcohol, are you carrying all this other equipment for back up?
I don't actually carry a firesteel, just giving an example of what's possible if your firestarting skills are good.
My cook kit weighs around 8oz for pot, wood stove, alcohol stove, reflectix cozy, piece of towel for cleaning/drying, and freezer bag for tinder collecting. I've been doing research on the beer can pots, and they seem very viable so hopefully I'll be able to drop that down to 6oz for everything.
Figure a 1/2oz for a small bottle + 2oz of alcohol, you're at 8.5oz with enough backup alcohol for 4 dinners. Not too shabby.
You can also plan ahead a bit with the food you carry. For instance, you expect a lot of rain and expect you won't feel like dealing with making a fire, you can always bring a couple dinners that could be eaten cold if need be. Many people go completely stove-less anyways for the simplicity and weight savings.
The video (from Qi wiz) also shows a cotton ball used as a primer, how are you priming?
I've been interested in bushcraft and firestarting my whole life. There are many ways to do it - for the sake of making it look easy in the videos, QiWiz tends to use a pretty fail-proof method of a cotton ball soaked in vaseline.
There are lots of different natural tinders you can find in the woods - birch bark is preferred and found pretty much everywhere on the east coast. Dried grass or leaves are ok if it's really dry. A few species of evergreen tree have a thin, papery bark which is often dry even when it's been raining for a long time because they have dense branches and foliage that keeps the inside of the tree dry (of course you want to be careful not to harm a living tree).
If you can't find anything readily available, my favorite way to get tinder is to find any random stick/branch of about 1 or 2 inch diameter and make wood shavings. Even after a week of rain, most wood is only superficially wet, and after scraping away the bark and some of the outer wood, you'll be able to get dry shavings from the inside. Worst case scenario you can split a piece of wood to get to the dry stuff inside.
This video demonstrates several methods of splitting wood with a knife and getting tinder, kindling and dry fuel all from one piece of wood. Very handy to be able to do this because it means no matter how wet it is, you can always get a fire going even if there is no dry wood readily available.
Really, when you're using a wood stove like this, pretty much all you need to do is make some shavings (skip to 6:30 in the video). You can light shavings directly with a lighter. It's good to know how to make scrapings, but really not necessary unless you're using a firesteel, bow drill or some other less practical method of firestarting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grWSLbl19Ns
I'm not completely sold
I'm not trying to sell you :p I don't think a wood stove makes sense for most people except in a few very specific situations. Even in the best of conditions a wood stove won't compare to butane if speed is an important factor to you. A lot of people say, "20 minutes saved means I can hike for 20 more minutes before stopping!" I find I am not one of those people yet and I like to relax for a little bit before going to bed. I can't say whether that will change if/when I thru hike.
Bringing some alcohol and an alcohol stove for backup solves a lot of problems, but once you start doing that it starts to be "better" to simply rely on alcohol.
I like the hybrid wood/alcohol setup for a few reasons:
1) Gives me an excuse to have a mini-campfire if I feel like it
2) Carry less fuel than I would with a purely alcohol system, feel more self sufficient
3) Ability to cook things like non-dehydrated rice, beans, etc without worrying about how much fuel it takes
4) Theoretically, on a thru-hike it might be nice to not have to worry about finding fuel when resupplying
Hosaphone
12-21-2012, 14:58
With alcohol you can use it in a more sheltered spot (right inside tarp or shelter, etc) so wind screen is not as necessary.
Still need to be careful of fumes of course, but it's not quite the same as a wood fire...
Hosaphone
12-21-2012, 15:19
One more thing... You can carry a gallon ziplock bag and if you expect rain or it has been raining for a while, you can pick up good twigs/tinder as you walk along or during breaks, etc. Put stuff in the bag to keep it dry and then you don't have to scramble around trying to find dry stuff when you want to be cooking. If you have dry tinder and a couple dry twigs to get a decent flame going, you can then add damp ones and it won't matter as much.
Rationed carefully, a couple good pieces of dry birch bark and a handful of dry twigs could start several fires when everything else is wet
One more thing... You can carry a gallon ziplock bag and if you expect rain or it has been raining for a while, you can pick up good twigs/tinder as you walk along or during breaks, etc. Put stuff in the bag to keep it dry and then you don't have to scramble around trying to find dry stuff when you want to be cooking. If you have dry tinder and a couple dry twigs to get a decent flame going, you can then add damp ones and it won't matter as much.
This is a good idea, and one that I use as well. Once in camp, I usually collect enough twigs in a few minutes for both dinner and breakfast. The ones I don't burn for dinner, I keep under my tarp in case of an unexpected (or expected) rain. In the morning, I can get things going without any trouble from falling water. ; )
Some more responses to posts and statements . . .
---Quote---
Any reason QiWiz doesn't design the stove so the pot supports are higher????
---End Quote---
The FireFly was originally designed with the goal of being the lightest possible right-sized wood burning backpacking stove, primarily for solo cookers. Most people do not use pots that require higher pot supports, but some do. I did not want to add unnecessary weight to the basic stove configuration that most will be happy with. For the folks that need or want more pot height, there are my UL “large pot supports”, originally made from steel but now from titanium, which add an additional 1.5” of headroom above the firebox with a minimum weight penalty.
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Are these stoves handmade or are they lazer cut cnc?
---End Quote---
The FireFly is currently cut by hand. For a number of reasons, I have been investigating the possibility of having a NE Ohio shop start to cut titanium for me. I am anticipating a laser-cut version will be available as soon as the end of January, in time for the first anniversary of the stove’s production. Happy Birthday FireFly!
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I watched the film and who ever geewiz is, it took him 17 minutes to get some bubbles on the bottom of his pot (and he already had the twigs ready).
---End Quote---
You might want to watch the video again. It demonstrates bringing 3 cups of water to a rolling boil in about 8 minutes from the time the pot is put on the stove, using one load of wood, then continuing to heat/simmer the water for another 9 minutes without adding more wood, such that there are still some small bubbles at the 17 minute mark. Just sayin’ you probably did not watch the video very carefully.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=w1GyV2h2EqE
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What if you're hiking and you just want a cup of tea, do you really expect to go through all that to get some hot tea. What if you want tea on top of a summit and there are no trees around, do you now have to pack in twigs?
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Personally, my main reason for using a wood burning stove is to save on fuel weight. But I do typically bring an Esbit cube or two in case I want a quick cuppa and don’t want to get a fire going. If I am going to be above tree line or in a fire ban area for most or all of a trek, I bring an alcohol or Esbit stove rather than my FireFly. If I am going to be occasionally above tree line, I’ll bring the FireFly with enough Esbit for the cooking I need to do in those locations.
---Quote---
I've used little fires my first thru hike and it seemed to get soot everywhere, am I to believe that soot is no issue? Where ever you put your pot it's going to rub off and eventually get on other things, yes?
---End Quote---
You will get soot on your pot, no question about that. You won’t want to just put a sooty pot in your pack, correct. Some folks use a plastic bag, or a stuff sack devoted to the pot to keep the soot away from other items. Like Hosaphone, I like to use a Reflectix cozy for my pot so that I can eat out of it at a leisurely pace without my food getting cold. The cozy also serves as something that contains the soot while carrying the pot in my pack.
---Quote---
show us a video of how long it takes to boil in the rain? or after a big rain when everything is wet? or on a very windy day, like it often can be at, above 3,000ft? And tell us where you expect to start this fire (shelter/tent)? What happens if you need to boil something for a while, can you show us the video of you cooking a meal (and not ramen)
---End Quote---
I use my iPhone on a mini-tripod to make my videos, so I'm not going to make them in the rain. I guess you will have to take my word for it that I use my FireFly in bad as well as good conditions. I find that my fire skills (picking fuel, preparing fuel, starting fire, maintaining fire) keep improving the more I practice them. The worst the weather has been, the wetter the wood, the more that fuel picking and prep make a difference. I would recommend that if/as you are trying this out, you have Esbit or alcohol as a backup in case of difficulty or preference for a particular meal.
Wind actually feeds a fire, so not much of a problem most of the time. In very windy conditions, you may want to seek out a more sheltered spot (like the downwind side of your tent or tarp).
At a shelter, I would always situate myself so that any smoke is carried away from other hikers. If unable to do this, I would use my backup fuel (alcohol or Esbit).
Cooking for longer periods of time is made easier by a wood stove, because you do not have to worry about how much free twig fuel you are using. It opens up the possibility of dry baking, long simmers, etc. On the FireFly, getting the FlexPort or FuelPort option makes this easier, but it can be done with regular twig feeding even without a Port. On my accessories page, you can catch a video of cornbread baked on a FireFly. I do dry baking now almost every time I go out on trail. What a treat!
I guess the bottom line is that a wood burning backpacking stove is not for all people and all places, but is perfect for many places and people. You have to decide what is going to work best for your own happiness, safety, and comfort on trail. HYOH
Hosaphone
12-21-2012, 17:51
Wind actually feeds a fire, so not much of a problem most of the time.
Even a slight breeze does make it very hard to use a lighter, especially if your tinder is not particularly dry. Not really a big issue, though.
magic_game03
12-21-2012, 17:53
Qi Wiz, good responses. I think you answered some very important questions that I had lingering. I was wrong (as I often am) about your time, so let me sincerely apologize for mis representing your video. At the point you come to a boil (about 7:35 into the video) you are very brief about the success of boiling water. If you look away from the video for a few seconds you'd miss the boil. You might want to stretch that part out a bit in the next video (if there is one). If you get someone like me who is starting to loose attention at 7 1/2 mins into an 8 1/2 minute video about how well the firefly works you may loose some customers.
I understand you are on phone camera but I, or others, might feel like your hiding a vulnerability if we can't see it in action in adverse conditions.
Else, great job on this piece of equipment and thanks for being resilient to my comments. All equipment must stand up to harsh criticism and even harsher field scrutiny to become something worth being owned by thru-hikers.
Hosaphone
12-21-2012, 19:09
I understand you are on phone camera but I, or others, might feel like your hiding a vulnerability if we can't see it in action in adverse conditions.
Under bad conditions a lot depends on what kind of wood you're working with, and that won't really show up in a video. Maybe a video of walking down a trail and showing how to select good wood would be more useful. It would be pretty unexciting to watch a video of someone having no trouble at all because they were able to find good wood.
Somebody once said, "What's the secret to building fires? Cheat." Do everything in your power to make it easier. Stockpile dry stuff in a ziplock before the weather gets bad, use man-made tinder, poor a tiny bit of alcohol on the wood to help it get going, etc.
If you absolutely can't find good materials, things get interesting and it comes down more to your firestarting skills. When you start needing to split bigger pieces of wood to get tinder and "make" your own "twigs", you're probably better off just using your backup alcohol. Then again, in the video I linked about the "one stick fire", the guy goes from piece of wood -> fire in 6 minutes (albeit in good conditions). I guess a lot of it comes down to how good you are and what kind of wood you have.
Hosaphone
12-21-2012, 19:11
poor a tiny bit of alcohol
Pour* :mad:
Do you make these stoves and sell them? Are they made in the USA, liked the video and review :)
Do you make these stoves and sell them? Are they made in the USA, liked the video and review :)
Yes, I make them.
Yes, I sell them.
Yes, they are made in USA.
and much much more info about my gear is at www.QiWiz.net
Wood Stoves: Single vs Double Wall
11-02-2012, 21:17
Hosaphone
Quote:
Originally Posted by zelph http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/Eloquent/buttonsgreen/viewpost.gif (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=1357285#post1357285)
What have you decided to purchase?
It's hard to make a decision without ever seeing any of the stoves in person, and so much of a stove's performance is going to depend on the wood and skill of the user. With alcohol and canister stoves you can get concrete information about them and usability is going to be the same for everyone - not so for wood stoves. Youtube videos don't do too much good either because who knows what wood/tinder they are using. There's also the fact that wood stoves are a bit of a niche for backpackers so there isn't as much information to draw from.
Above I wrote that in poor conditions you'll probably want to just use alcohol or esbit backup regardless of what stove you have... I'm still not sure how this will all work out for me in practice, but in theory I think I would rather not plan to rely on a backup. A big draw of wood stoves for me is not needing to even think about fuel. I think I'll just try to always bring a meal or two that can be eaten uncooked if I'm feeling too lazy to make a fire. I think using a tarp instead of a tent will work out well here because I'll be able to prepare wood and cook while staying out of the rain. If you can get out of direct rain, you can start a fire under any conditions with wet wood, just a question of how much preparation and if you need to resort to the 1 stick fire drill. This will give me an excuse to carry a real knife!
I ended up buying a BushBuddy. I was attracted to the simplicity of setup/take down/storage, ease of moving it around, and it also appears that it might be easier to run in poor conditions. Basically, I just find gasifiers to be way more sexy :p Almost every video I watched of a BushBuddy-type stove made me go, "that looks awesome, I want one". Every video I saw of an Emberlit-type stove left me with the impression of it basically just being a "campfire in a box". That's certainly easier to deal with and more efficient than a campfire on the ground, but I just wasn't wowed the same way I was by the double walled stoves. I don't know if woodgas stoves of this size are actually any better in practice, but I suppose I'll find out for myself soon. I know there are a lot of happy users of both types of stove.
On the other hand I think the open bottom of the FireFly must make it a joy to light... Just toss some wood shavings in the bottom, build everything on top of that, pick it up and hold a lighter underneath. To light the BushBuddy I'll probably need to slowly build a fire inside it. I've seen videos where people light it from the top but I'm pretty sure that will only work if you have good tinder available and dry twigs.
....So those are my thoughts.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since November 2nd you have purchased the Firefly. Did you really give the Bushbuddy a fair chance?
Hosaphone
12-22-2012, 20:22
Since November 2nd you have purchased the Firefly. Did you really give the Bushbuddy a fair chance?
Perhaps not. I like the BushBuddy, but there is 1 thing for me that kills it... Weight. When I was doing research on stoves I looked at it and figured, "heck, that's only 2oz more than the FireFly, big deal?" But that's not the whole story. I wasn't looking at it in the context of the whole system.
Basically a BushBuddy setup gives you 9 "non-negotiable" ounces. The stove alone weighs ~5oz. If you want to keep it protected, you also need to use it with a pot of certain dimensions which will weigh at least ~4oz. Stove+pot brings you to 9oz. If you want alcohol for backup, add another ~1.5oz for reflectix cozy, empty fuel bottle weight (don't need a companion stove, just dump alcohol right in the bottom). I'm also carrying a 2oz fixed blade mora, when I could get by with a sub-1oz victorinox or razor blade if I was using alcohol.
I just have a hard time justifying that to myself when a SUL alcohol setup can get down to 2-3oz, or a caldera cone setup can be around 5oz for everything with an 850ml pot. I could carry a caldera cone and razor blade knife, and have room to carry 10 or more days worth of fuel before reaching the weight of a bushbuddy setup. With a ti-tri I could also still cook with wood in nice weather if I felt like it, although soot is a bigger issue with the ti-tri than it is with the BushBuddy or FireFly.
A firefly only gives you 2.5-3 "non-negotiable ounces". The rest of the system can be super ultralight or not, depending on what you want. With the BB, no matter how you slice it you're gonna be carrying 9 ounces at the bare minimum. When you add in alcohol backup and a heavy reflectix cozy, it's just too much IMO.
Hosaphone
12-22-2012, 20:31
Gear Head Hosa
It's true... My weekends are often busier than I would like, so I guess I live vicariously through trail journals and obsess about things like this too much. Can't help it :o
It's true... My weekends are often busier than I would like, so I guess I live vicariously through trail journals and obsess about things like this too much. Can't help it :o
As long as you're happy:) we hike our own hikes.
Hey, I received my Magic-Flame folding wood burner this past week.....call me tickled pink:sun It's not for backpacking. It's a stove that I will test to the max, push it to it's limits:banana The stove is a jewel. You should see how easy it to open up and close.
Hosaphone
12-23-2012, 14:27
I was thinking...
Part of the reason I'm a bit shy of the Foster's pots is that I imagine they are pretty inefficient due to small amount of surface area on the bottom of the pot. I guess this is somewhat mitigated by thin aluminum.
But anyways my thought was, if the Foster's pot is narrow enough to fit inside the FireFly, why not just put it on top of a fancy feast stove inside the firefly? Rather than putting the pot on top where only the bottom of it is exposed to the flame, having half of the pot inside might gain some of the same benefits the caldera cones enjoy where more of the pot is exposed to the heat. This might dramatically improve efficiency with alcohol because much more of the pot is "enclosed" and exposed to the heat. And you avoid needing to carry a separate wind screen or alcohol burner support.
I will need to test...
Hosaphone
12-23-2012, 14:29
Part of the reason I'm a bit shy of the Foster's pots is that I imagine they are pretty inefficient
(this wouldn't matter when using wood, but when using alcohol it could negate the ~2oz you save by going from titanium pot -> aluminum can)
Miguelon
12-28-2016, 14:51
I skimmed the prior posts. What I have is an Emberlit Fire Ant Titanium Wood Stove/windscreen/alcohol stove stand. It weighs 84 grams/2.96oz.
My idea is to carry it and an alcohol stove. (Not sure if I'm going to carry 4 or 8 oz.) My firestarters are cotton balls cut in two. Carried around in a 20cc bottle, soaked in 91%rubbing alcohol. (Medical and fire use.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sqSLCWA5zA
Miguelon
12-28-2016, 14:52
carry 4 or 8 oz of ethanol fuel...
ScareBear
12-28-2016, 19:02
carry 4 or 8 oz of ethanol fuel...
Ethanol? Ethyl Alcohol? Pure etoh(well, 95 percent pure...)?
Why? So you can make a cocktail after you light your fire?
carry 4 or 8 oz of ethanol fuel...
The lightest backup fuel for a woodburning stove IMO is Esbit (in terms of heat output/gram fuel), but alcohol is easier to find in many locations. Both can be used in most woodburning stoves that have a multifuel option.
Miguelon
12-30-2016, 20:23
Thanks Qiwiz... I'll look into that.
Miguelon
ScareBear
12-30-2016, 21:24
The lightest backup fuel for a woodburning stove IMO is Esbit (in terms of heat output/gram fuel), but alcohol is easier to find in many locations. Both can be used in most woodburning stoves that have a multifuel option.
Have you compared WetFire to Esbit? I am betting WetFire burns hotter, but shorter...
Have you compared WetFire to Esbit? I am betting WetFire burns hotter, but shorter...
I have not made the comparison. Efficiency (in my general experience) tends to increase when a burner is less hot but burns longer, so a hotter burn for a shorter period of time might not be a good thing. I'll leave that to others to sort out. An Esbit tab weighs a half ounce. A full tab will usually boil 3 cups of water with good wind protection and correct pot height over the burning tab. That's good enough for me. For Esbit cooking I generally budget 2.5 tabs/day (1.25 oz fuel weight/day) so that I can have plenty of hot drinks along with a cooked breakfast and dinner. When using Esbit as a backup to wood burning, I usually just add a couple of "in case I need/want it" tabs to my kit, for a total weight penalty of an ounce. Just sayin . . .
Wise Old Owl
01-05-2017, 11:59
Hi QiWiz! guess what, I am about to build a Sea Water Desalination pot that works with the larger stove. I have ordered a specific pot that will arrive in the next two days and I am putting together a nested pot, coil, and cup. If I get anywhere I will send you a video.
I have a second idea to convert seawater to fresh, but requires a lot of metal work that is beyond me and would work with a single pot of any kind.
Rex Clifton
01-05-2017, 20:29
I have not made the comparison. Efficiency (in my general experience) tends to increase when a burner is less hot but burns longer, so a hotter burn for a shorter period of time might not be a good thing. I'll leave that to others to sort out. An Esbit tab weighs a half ounce. A full tab will usually boil 3 cups of water with good wind protection and correct pot height over the burning tab. That's good enough for me. For Esbit cooking I generally budget 2.5 tabs/day (1.25 oz fuel weight/day) so that I can have plenty of hot drinks along with a cooked breakfast and dinner. When using Esbit as a backup to wood burning, I usually just add a couple of "in case I need/want it" tabs to my kit, for a total weight penalty of an ounce. Just sayin . . .
Three cups of water to boil on one esbit tab; you've got to be kidding? I challenge that assumption. My trials punked out with two cups of water and one tab under controlled conditions. I find esbit to be frustrating and worthless except for reheating previously prepared food, which is what it was designed for.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
With this set-up, Toaks 900 and a DIY windcreen/pot support, I can consistently get 3 cups of water to boil easily with 1 regular size esbit under ideal conditions.
37787
Three cups of water to boil on one esbit tab; you've got to be kidding? I challenge that assumption. My trials punked out with two cups of water and one tab under controlled conditions. I find esbit to be frustrating and worthless except for reheating previously prepared food, which is what it was designed for.
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Challenge you can. Pot height and wind protection are critical to success with Esbit. I am not lying when I say that you can boil 3 cups with one tab. Get a Caldera Cone setup (or a similarly well-crafted set up, see Zelph's post) and you will be convinced. When out west above tree line, I have done many extended trips with Esbit as my primary fuel. For dinners I usually boil 4 cups (2 for food, 2 for beverage). With 1.5 tabs I bring 4 cups to a boil and have 3-5 minutes of simmer time before the Esbit is used up. No lie.
Using the same set-up as in the above photo but substituting the pot to be a kmart grease pot, I could get 4 cups to 190 degrees using 1 regular size esbit. I used a Brian Green Esbit Tray(BGET) with bread pan corners to hold the esbit while it burned. Esbit has POWER :D Add another 1/2 cube and it's easy to boil the 4 cups and simmer as QiWiz has stated.