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Christine_Runs
12-15-2012, 15:29
Hi everyone,

I realize there are a number of threads about solar panels but I am hoping for advice on my specific question. I am a solo canoeist. I do not carry a cell phone but I carry 2 pieces of electronics. A spot (battery charged) and a GPS which requires charging.

I am comfortable with maps but I carry a GPS as a backup just in case. On a 2 week trip if I use GPS on large lakes to make sure I am on course - which I like to do - I was considering carrying a solar charger - probably from goal zero.

My plan was to lay out the charger on my canoe to charge the gps and the battery pack on sunny days which includes significant direct sunlight so that on days with no sun I would still have the battery pack. Realistically on a 12 day trip I probably would need to charge the system once or twice to have it at full charge at all times in case of an emergency. Viable?

Thanks.

Christine

Rasty
12-15-2012, 15:42
Probably the best place to use a solar charger is while on the water because of the amount of direct sunlight.

Wise Old Owl
12-15-2012, 16:09
Waterproof > http://www.rei.com/product/837625/joos-orange-portable-solar-charger
Water Resistant > http://www.rei.com/product/834125/goal-zero-guide-10-plus-adventure-kit-with-solo-flashlight

Do not go any cheaper. Just because this leads to dissapointment.

mn_scout
12-15-2012, 17:16
Christine,
Makes sense, but if it's just 12 days, it might be easier, cheaper, and lighter to just take 1 or 2 backup sets of batteries. Those products mentioned by WOO weigh 24 and 32 ounces. My solar charger is sub 8 ounces, but I have to carry it on my back so weight's more important to me. :-)
Also, all the documentation from SPOT is pretty adamant about NOT using rechargable batteries. I don't know why, though. I found in the SPOT 2 that a set of lithium batteries in tracking mode for 10-12 hours a day lasted about 10 days.

kayak karl
12-15-2012, 19:47
i have the 18 watt one. they are all waterproof. http://www.voltaicsystems.com/kits.shtml#kit-product-section

JAK
12-15-2012, 19:51
It would be temping with a canoe to have something permamently deck mounted at the bow or stern above a watertight bulkhead where your batteries could be recharged. On the other hand, even without portaging, I think minimizing weight is as important in paddling as it is with hiking. Reducing body weight and gear weight allows for a narrower boat which is easier to paddle, which allows for reduced freeboard, which all in turn coming for a lighter boat easier to carry and easier to paddle and still be stable. The easier it is to carry your boat to your car and the water the more you will paddle it. That said, once designed and built and on the water, you should have room for 20-30 pounds of gear and clothing as long as you keep your body weight down, and if you lose more weight you will most certainly have room for more gear weight. By room I really mean weight and still be stable.

Christine_Runs
12-15-2012, 19:55
Hi,

Thanks for all the feedback so far.

Wise thank you for the recommendations. I will check them out.

I should have been clearer - I take back up batteries for the Spot - I just want the solar charger for the GPS. We have an older GPS which I am trying to avoid replacing for the time being. So while I could buy some extra batteries I guess I figured the solar panel has more potential uses and a longer life expectancy than replacement GPS batteries. I agree that it is a lot more weight and I am really trying to get the weight of my pack down but I see having a back up for the GPS as the one place worth adding weight. I guess I will do a comparison of extra batteries versus a solar panel.

just out of curiosity what do you use that is sub 8 oz scout?

Christine

Christine_Runs
12-15-2012, 20:06
Karl,

Thanks.

Jak, I actually have multiple canoes - 3 solos and 3 tandems - so my plan is just to lie it on top of gear bags while paddling. I paddle mostly on Algonquin Park where there is a lot of portaging so weight is important. The solo boats I paddle frequently can handle weight well. I am trying to trim weight mostly because of the portaging.

Christine

kayak karl
12-15-2012, 20:06
another set up http://voltaicsystems.com/blog/solar-charging-on-an-ocean-kayak/ the battery needs to be kept dry.
if you are a backpacker my guess is your gear in already lighter then most boaters. i have found mine being 1/3 rd. that of others.

poopsy
12-15-2012, 20:25
Christine,

I am seriously considering Powermonkey's eXplorer for similar reasons .https://powertraveller.com/index.php

Mountain Equipment Co-op has it in Canada.

My understanding is that they have tweaked the electronics recently so it works better in low light. Shade and cloud are tough on small solar chargers.

I don't if it is widely available in the US

JAK
12-15-2012, 20:31
Never been to Algonquin park but I've heard it beautiful, lots of lakes, and wolves and bears to keep thing, interesting. I have a sort of hacked up 16' hard chined kayak I reworked into a decked canoe for the Kennebecasis River. Needs a little more work. lol. I'm not a very skilled canoeist so I use a kayak paddle. Built a sprint kayak for my daughter out of the ends of a broken down K2 and K4. It is 16 feet long and only 12" wide but she has good balance in it at 80 pounds. Boat weighs 16 pounds mostly because it is so small. I am going to build two this winter. 17'1" x 12" for her and 17'1" x 20" for me. My old hard chined beast is 16' x 24" and I am going to stretch it into something for 3 person family at maybe 22' and keep it up at the cottage where it doesn't have to get moved too much. Love paddling. Margaret and I did alot together this fall until the end of October, even in the mornings before school and work, and down the Kennebecasis from Apohoq to Gondola Point in 2 stages over 2 Saturdays, 40km in all, mostly current. :D

Christine_Runs
12-15-2012, 21:02
Hi Poopsy,

The reviews on the mec site are mixed but things are easy to return to mec and it is light. So one thing I was not clear on is can it do both of the following: charge something directly from sunlight and save sunlight to charge something at night?

Christine (who lives very near Ottawa)

Christine_Runs
12-15-2012, 21:05
Poopsy - an FYI - Sail sells goal zero stuff - also considering that based on other recommendations - is heavier but also much quicker charge due to size.

Christine_Runs
12-15-2012, 21:07
Hi Jak,

My light Royalex canoe for pond hoping is 33 pounds. My bigger canoe is lighter material but larger so iris about 40 isn't pounds. Sounds like you are having a lot of fu. With your family.

Christine

Christine_Runs
12-15-2012, 21:14
Jak, Silly spell check! Should have read : larger so it is about 40 pounds. Sounds like you are having a lot of fun with your family.

Wise Old Owl
12-15-2012, 21:25
Well Jack its an ultimate backpack kayak spot it - its a playground to the gods.... 18440

This is a private photo from my collection - never posted before please do not qu0te this post.

Christine_Runs
12-15-2012, 21:35
I definitely like the park - the fees are reasonable - 10 dollars a night - and the north end of the park is pretty quiet most of the time. Among hard core canoeists in Ontario, Algonquin is considered too urbanized - signs for portages, pre booking for camping, etc. for me right now it is the right balance - not completely wild but getting there - the south end of the park is too busy for me- still some lakes I want to paddle but the number of people feels more like a small town than the wilderness.

Wise Old Owl
12-15-2012, 21:42
Christine, I was there for more than a week and we did not see anyone outside the group until we got to the pull out. Yes the Northend is awesome...

18441

saltysack
12-15-2012, 23:44
Joos orange is by far the best personal charger. I used mine on my 2 week solo stand up paddle board trip up the stjohns river in Fla. over 312 miles total off grid. It kept my iPhone 4 charged as well as my go pro . I used both frequently as used google earth.

Christine_Runs
12-16-2012, 12:28
Hi Wise, I think your experience is more the exception than the rule, even in the north end I do not think I had a whole trip where I did not see anyone (I spent 30 days canoe camping this summer) but in the north end I definitely saw a lot fewer people. I am going to do some of the more popular routes on weekends early in the year this year to avoid the crowds. I would like to go to some of the more northern parks but as you are much farther from help and routes are not marked I want more time soloing in Algonquin first.

Salty, have you used other systems - just curious what led you to this conclusion- buying the goal zero one would be much easier as I know a retailer who sells it in Canada so if I am going to buy the joos it would be more money and more work to get it. If it really is that much better I will consider it but if it is more brand preference I would go with the goal zero.

Christine

Wise Old Owl
12-16-2012, 12:36
Regardless of which way you go - make sure you play with it a few days in the yard.... as I did... My Motorola has a Battery Program that overthinks the power coming into the phone... I learned you have to shut off that brand before connecting to Goal Zero if you are going direct.

poopsy
12-16-2012, 13:01
Poopsy - an FYI - Sail sells goal zero stuff - also considering that based on other recommendations - is heavier but also much quicker charge due to size.

Thanks for the tip. It's on sale now too. BTW, do you just solo canoe or do you canoe alone as well? A controversial subject in our household.

Wise Old Owl
12-16-2012, 14:40
I almost forgot - Christine_Runs (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/member.php?45067-Christine_Runs) When you make this purchase and use it in the field come back to this thread and add your experiences.

Christine_Runs
12-16-2012, 16:26
Hi Wise, Thanks for the suggestion. I am going to buy a few new things this year and my plan is to take play with them at home, then take them on short trips where if they fail it is not a big deal and then take them on longer trips.

poopsy - I did see the sale, I just want to make sure I am sure before I drop this money! When I canoe with my partner we tandem. When he is working I sometimes go alone and sometimes bring one of our dogs. He does not worry too much (though I know he worries). We did not tell my parents for while but my mom actually took it quite well when she heard I have a spot. I think she knew there was not much point arguing. What is the argument in your house?

grayfox
12-16-2012, 19:24
I just got the Goal Zero solar charger. I haven't had it canoeing yet but my plan is to atach it to my larger portage pack so it can stay set up all day, if need be, when the weather is good. I used to single carry but now that I'm older I opt for the safer choice of enjoying the walking as well as the boating. I'll carry the pack and set it in the sun and then go back for the boat and the small daypack. The setup is light and seems durable enough, can charge AA and AAA, and any USB device. It also runs a small light that will be great in camp. I have wanted to go solar for a long time and am glad I waited for this.

Wise Old Owl
12-16-2012, 20:09
Well - allow me to help you lower your expectations. That's the sales pitch for all solar panels. When I got the system the AAA adapter was missing, there are no instructions, yes it pumps power in shade and on partly cloudy days, if its raining - put it away - there is not enough energy with "thick" cloud. Initial tests to the supplied batteries are good. One idea if you are using a smart phone is to charge direct on sunny days otherwise use a high power lithium battery external. Exspecially if you are going to wear the panel and walk with it, this doesn't need to be "Goal Zero"

poopsy
12-17-2012, 11:40
Christine:

'"poopsy - I did see the sale, I just want to make sure I am sure before I drop this money! When I canoe with my partner we tandem. When he is working I sometimes go alone and sometimes bring one of our dogs. He does not worry too much (though I know he worries). We did not tell my parents for while but my mom actually took it quite well when she heard I have a spot. I think she knew there was not much point arguing. What is the argument in your house?"

Yeah it's good you have a spot. When I have taken the kids, my wife has insisted I rent a Sat phone. When I worked in the woods we would have a twice daily scheduled HF radio chat. But now as I near 60 I admit that going out on the water for long periods of time by myself might be a little imprudent. I have moved from a canoe to a guideboat, which portages like a pig but is much safer on the water and easier in the wind. The big lakes in Parc Laverendrye are as remote as I go now, and no bushwhacking.

Stay safe, poopsy

Wise Old Owl
12-17-2012, 12:34
have this installed on your guideboat.... http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4620256076630359&pid=1.7&w=249&h=150&c=7&rs=1

Oslohiker
12-27-2012, 11:10
Christine,

I am seriously considering Powermonkey's eXplorer for similar reasons .https://powertraveller.com/index.php

Mountain Equipment Co-op has it in Canada.

My understanding is that they have tweaked the electronics recently so it works better in low light. Shade and cloud are tough on small solar chargers.

I don't if it is widely available in the US

I haved used it for about an year. The quality of this product is hard to beat. I always bring the solar panel with me too, but it would be a close call if I would bring the panel on an AT thru-hike.

poopsy
12-27-2012, 12:40
Thanks for the comment Oslohiker. I went ahead a bought the charger and it seems to be working well inside the house. Generally pleased. My Iphone with solar recharging package totals 340 gms. A bit heavy but manageable.

How good have you found it in the cold? Do you use it in the winter and at what temperatures? It's been as cold as -18C (-1F) so far this year. Batteries and plastic don't work so well as it gets colder. I keep my Iphone inside my jacket during the winter. Will I have to do the same with the eXplorer?

Poopsy

Wise Old Owl
12-27-2012, 14:33
Powermonkey is interesting - its the size of the collector plate that gets me, In solar panels size matters, the bigger the collection device - the more efficient it is. I am not sure but, the two units I mentioned are larger.

Colter
12-27-2012, 15:45
I spent 23 days descending the Yellowstone River (http://bucktrack.blogspot.com/2012/08/canoeing-down-yellowstone-river.html)and used a solar charger frequently, including in the moving canoe, and it worked great. I used an sCharger-5.

One thing to consider in a moving canoe, of course, is the possibility of the charger getting wet. I never dropped the charger in the water last summer, but it did get rained on and held up well. Another big factor is the wattage of the charger. Makes a big difference, especially with some devices.

Oslohiker
12-27-2012, 17:38
Powermonkey is interesting - its the size of the collector plate that gets me, In solar panels size matters, the bigger the collection device - the more efficient it is. I am not sure but, the two units I mentioned are larger.

I am sure you are aware of that there are different technologies out there. There exists really efficient solar cells out there, but they costs as much as a failed marriage. Powertraveller claims that their cell technology has an Photovoltaic efficiency up to 17% .

I have both the explorer and the extreme. It is the extreme I am using when hiking, not the explorer. My explorer is an OEM for the Garmin Edge 900, but can also be used as an ordinary explorer.

For the electronics I am carrying, the explorer is way to small (2200 mAh), compared to the extreme (9000 mAh). The solar panel will still charge the battery when it is cloudy, but use (of course) way longer. That would be, it still has its a function in "bad weather". It has also a safety purpose, because you will never run out of power.

Wise Old Owl
12-27-2012, 18:38
Hi Oslo, yup - we have had several threads on this subject and I have built a few from scratch, There are a lot of Nay-sayers on Solar here on this site, I have done a lot of testing on the Goal Zero here at the house. I like KK's Set up and I am open to new products that are submitted, I am also deeply aware for the price - back up batteries are really the way to go. You can get a lot of batteries for a $100. We are just posting - and keeping an open mind..

I have 3 years of electronics in school, and I am a amateur radio operator, I have been building solar systems since I was ten, and installed one for a whole house backup about ten years ago.

saltysack
12-27-2012, 18:41
I've never tried the goal zero but recently saw it at costco. The joos is now sold thru Rei. I've had mine over a year and very happy with its performance. I plan to sup the 100 mile wilderness waterway this spring. Only down side the joos isn't set up to charge external batteries. It comes w tips for different devices and is waterproof. Very good customer support!!

Wise Old Owl
12-27-2012, 20:30
There's a lot to be said for waterproof, but keep in mind a Sill bag while its in your backpack for other brands is fine, you aren't going to get a charge while it rains...