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The Cleaner
12-20-2012, 13:05
Since I've been doing a little volunteer work I've seen some strange things left behind at shelters.But this I totally do not understand.:confused:This shovel has been in my family every since I can remember.Well I do have better ones now, so I thought I would donate this to the shelter which has an inside fireplace to aid me and anyone else who wanted to clean the fireplace.I almost hate to see what will the 2013 thrus will be doing.I know it's only a few who do things like this but to all those whether hiking only a few miles or thousands,think about others while out there.What you do may have an effect on those behind you.Just sayin'....18493

Hikes in Rain
12-20-2012, 13:30
Um...wow. That really makes you wonder, doesn't it?

max patch
12-20-2012, 13:48
Someones lekki broke.

The year after my thru I rehiked all of GA via a half dozen or so 2 day 1 nite hikes. Every trip I brought and left behind a 1 broom at a shelter. The next year every one was gone. Who knows?

The Cleaner
12-20-2012, 13:53
The handle was only 3ft long,must have been a little person hiker....:confused:

Rasty
12-20-2012, 13:59
The handle was only 3ft long,must have been a little person hiker....:confused:

Maybe it was a pirate and his/her peg leg broke? That would be the only good reason that I can think of.

Storm
12-20-2012, 14:04
It was probably used as firewood, they burn the shelter registers so nothing is sacred.

Train Wreck
12-20-2012, 14:09
The handle was only 3ft long,must have been a little person hiker....:confused:

Maybe he only had a short way to go ;)

atmilkman
12-20-2012, 14:15
You and I and everybody else with any sense knows exactly what kind of hiker does this. First off we know it's one that hasn't done any kind of maintenance, be it trail or shelter or privy. Secondly............................

Karma13
12-20-2012, 14:23
It was probably used as firewood, they burn the shelter registers so nothing is sacred.

Get out. Are you serious? People actually do that? :(

MuddyWaters
12-20-2012, 14:37
Get out. Are you serious? People actually do that? :(

Ur kidding right? People have burned roof and platform materials. If they could get the logs out of the walls, theyd burn them too.

Same kind of persons that carry a black sharpie and write their name all over the place, at every shelter, and throws trash into privys.

Nean
12-20-2012, 14:39
Get out. Are you serious? People actually do that? :(

Wouldn't it be great if that was the worst thing and not the least?

Karma13
12-20-2012, 14:42
I wasn't kidding. Alas, I continue to be surprised by crap like this.

People suck. Hard. :(

atmilkman
12-20-2012, 14:44
I think if it was used for fire wood it would be burnt all the way into the shovel head. I think it was something else. Since it was only 3 feet long I think it was made into a "toy", something to play with and beat on things while walking along.

Thirsty DPD
12-20-2012, 14:52
Interesting how the handle appears to be sawn off. It would have taken less time to pick up a few sticks, or just throw the shovel in the fire. It's amazing what trouble pirate hikers, and little people hikers will go through to travel a short distance. It could be just another case of someone frightened with little man syndrome, arming himself for whatever comes up along the trail.

Nean
12-20-2012, 14:53
I wasn't kidding. Alas, I continue to be surprised by crap like this.

People suck. Hard. :(

Sorry to ask, but have you ever hiked? respectless hikers have become so common it is almost normal. Not enough off us who will speak up and therfore- the problems compound daily.

Nean
12-20-2012, 14:59
I think if it was used for fire wood it would be burnt all the way into the shovel head. I think it was something else. Since it was only 3 feet long I think it was made into a "toy", something to play with and beat on things while walking along.

It was broken off for firewood.
I'm also sure (kindakiddin) it was a cold ultralighter who reasoned the handle was extra weight and what they were really doing was a service...

Thirsty DPD
12-20-2012, 15:00
Sorry to ask, but have you ever hiked? respectless hikers have become so common it is almost normal. Not enough off us who will speak up and therfore- the problems compound daily.

++++Agreed

Cookerhiker
12-20-2012, 15:15
Interesting how the handle appears to be sawn off. It would have taken less time to pick up a few sticks, or just throw the shovel in the fire. It's amazing what trouble pirate hikers, and little people hikers will go through to travel a short distance. It could be just another case of someone frightened with little man syndrome, arming himself for whatever comes up along the trail.

Yeah, that was my first impression - who carries a saw while hiking? I'm thinking it's pure vandalism, malicious at that.

bardo
12-20-2012, 15:29
100-1 it was a white male. We're over run with those types these days.

hikerboy57
12-20-2012, 15:30
100-1 it was a white male. We're over run with those types these days.

yup those darn minority groups

Karma13
12-20-2012, 15:36
Sorry to ask, but have you ever hiked? respectless hikers have become so common it is almost normal. Not enough off us who will speak up and therfore- the problems compound daily.

I find that respectless people have become so common that it's "almost normal."

Speaking as a writer, the thought of some neanderthals doing a Fahrenheit 451 on people's written self-expression just reflexively saddened me. The destruction of shelter property is equally saddening.

bannerstone
12-20-2012, 15:50
There is one legitimate reason to cut off a handle like that, if it had been broken leaving a sharp splintered end it seems reasonable to clean up the end and just use it as an ash scoop for the fireplace.

I typically carry a very light folding saw (5 oz), most often it's used for clearing branches from the trail, only some for for firewood, never for modifying shovel handles. :)

David

bardo
12-20-2012, 16:13
yup those darn minority groups


Tell me about it. They're shooting up our schools, pooping in the woods and scaring the wildlife which ruins the ecosystem, they run ponzi schemes and causing banking collapses, and they liter the trail.

And we just let them run amock in our society.

Seatbelt
12-20-2012, 16:19
Someones lekki broke.

Every trip I brought and left behind a 1 broom at a shelter. The next year every one was gone.

Sounds like time for a witch hunt...

daddytwosticks
12-20-2012, 17:17
Sounds like time for a witch hunt... Now that's funny! :)

WingedMonkey
12-20-2012, 17:37
People should always remember to scatter their fire wood when they leave a campsite.

18503

Rasty
12-20-2012, 18:16
People should always remember to scatter their fire wood when they leave a campsite.

18503

Nothing like the fumes coming off of pressure treated fires!

prain4u
12-20-2012, 18:23
My generous side is willing to give folks the benefit of the doubt and hope that the handle might have broken off (with a pretty smooth break) during routine use. I have had a few older shovels that have come into possession (my wife was the Executor of the estates of a few older relatives and we had to clear out the homes and garages). The wooden handles get old and one day they just snaps during routine use--usually right about where this one is broken off--or maybe just a tad lower. Obviously handles do break over time. That is why they have handles for sale at hardware stores.

My less generous side says some jerk broke it off or cut it off on purpose.

atmilkman
12-20-2012, 18:57
Nothing like the fumes coming off of pressure treated fires!
Eau de Urban.

Pedaling Fool
12-20-2012, 19:03
My generous side...Don't you mean your gullible side:confused: ... :eek::D;)

Half-trac
12-20-2012, 19:49
Whom ever did that is as useless as a shovel with no handel.

Rasty
12-20-2012, 19:52
Whom ever did that is as useless as a shovel with no handel.

Excellent first post! Welcome to Whiteblaze!:welcome

jeffmeh
12-20-2012, 19:53
Whom ever did that is as useless as a shovel with no handel.

And no haydn either.

Half-trac
12-20-2012, 19:59
Whom ever did that is as useless as a shovel with no handel.

atmilkman
12-20-2012, 20:04
Whom ever did that is as useless as a shovel with no handel.

Excellent 2nd post Welcome to WhiteBlaze.:welcome

Lone Wolf
12-20-2012, 20:20
Whom ever did that is as useless as a shovel with no handel.


Whom ever did that is as useless as a shovel with no handel.


Excellent 2nd post Welcome to WhiteBlaze.:welcome
actually it was his/her first post. and Half-trac, it's handle :)

Rasty
12-20-2012, 20:56
Whom ever did that is as useless as a shovel with no handel.


Whom ever did that is as useless as a shovel with no handel.


Excellent 2nd post Welcome to WhiteBlaze.:welcome
actually it was his/her first post. and Half-trac, it's handle :)

The misspelling is what made it excellent.

Cookerhiker
12-20-2012, 20:57
Whom ever did that is as useless as a shovel with no handel.


And no haydn either.

Ah, but we don't know that - perhaps the perpetrator had The Messiah loaded on his i-phone.:p

fiddlehead
12-20-2012, 21:39
Chances are someone used the shovel to dig a cathole. Broke the handle using too much leverage.
Someone else cut it with their saw so that it wouldn't be so dangerous.
Or, someone needed a splint????

Then again, maybe they were just some a$$holes who wanted their fire to go a little longer and were too stoned to go out in the woods to get firewood.
Who knows?
IT's all speculation.

Not sure why I'm answering this. Just passing some time waiting for my tennis partner to show up.
But it's fun to speculate. I bet if I was actually hiking right now, I'd come up with some better answers.

hikerboy57
12-20-2012, 21:44
drunk homeless stoners no doubt
well maybe not

Half-trac
12-20-2012, 22:58
can't read or write just blazing in the dark.

daddytwosticks
12-21-2012, 08:31
If they really wanted to lighten that shovle, they would drill some wholes' in it. :)

The Cleaner
12-21-2012, 08:41
Chances are someone used the shovel to dig a cathole. Broke the handle using too much leverage.
Someone else cut it with their saw so that it wouldn't be so dangerous.
Or, someone needed a splint????

Then again, maybe they were just some a$$holes who wanted their fire to go a little longer and were too stoned to go out in the woods to get firewood.
Who knows?
IT's all speculation.

Not sure why I'm answering this. Just passing some time waiting for my tennis partner to show up.
But it's fun to speculate. I bet if I was actually hiking right now, I'd come up with some better answers. There's a brand new Privy at Jerry's Cabin shelter,built 11-07-12 built by the Carolina Mtn. Club & USFS...but upon my arrival I found that someone crapped 5ft from the side of the shelter,left it&TP right there.I took shovel and burned it in the fireplace.....

The Cleaner
12-21-2012, 08:43
Above post should have read"and burned the crap&paper in the fireplace"

10-K
12-21-2012, 08:47
Jerry Cabin needs a permanent caretaker.

The Cleaner
12-21-2012, 08:49
Jerry Cabin needs a permanent caretaker. The way more and more hikers act ALL shelters will need a caretaker if LNT is not followed....

The Cleaner
12-21-2012, 08:54
Jerry Cabin needs a permanent caretaker. In late October I met Howard McDonald of the CMC and he told me that as far as he is concerned I am the new caretaker:cool:......wondering if I need to stay up there during thru season...When I'm out I always offer to take trash from other hikers out on my last day....

OzJacko
12-21-2012, 09:05
In late October I met Howard McDonald of the CMC and he told me that as far as he is concerned I am the new caretaker:cool:......wondering if I need to stay up there during thru season...When I'm out I always offer to take trash from other hikers out on my last day....
Just monitor trailjournals and be there when I come thru pease...;)

My only surprise is the fact a bit of handle was left.
There is an element in modern society that grows in number every day who think of no one but themselves.
They've always been there but there is less and less suppression of them by influences like their parents or peers and so they run riot more and more.
I would suspect in this case a weekend hiker/camper who carried a saw but decided that a dry shovel handle was better than a wet branch...

nitewalker
12-21-2012, 09:07
Yeah, that was my first impression - who carries a saw while hiking? I'm thinking it's pure vandalism, malicious at that.

i carry a saw all the time. its not a big saw .
lol..http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4585127554910318&pid=15.1

WingedMonkey
12-21-2012, 09:45
Never see a shelter with a fire place that ain't trashed. I can understand why they bricked over the one at Blood Mt.

Monkeywrench
12-21-2012, 10:07
Get out. Are you serious? People actually do that? :(

One spring we hiked into Kid Gore Shelter in Vermont on our first maintenance trip of the year to discover someone had broken up the inside table (Kid Gore has bunks on either side with a table between) and used it to build a fire on the shelter floor!

Tor
12-21-2012, 10:13
That kind of people exist everywhere. Its hard to get into their minds and understand what their reasonings are. It boils down to that they dont care.....at all. Same kind that throw trash out the car windows, hauling off trash from home and dumping it in the woods, trashing public restrooms to the point they are health hazards..

You can't reason with such people.

Sent from my Droid

coolness
12-21-2012, 10:20
We were camping at the Devil's Marbleyard a few weeks ago and we saw a guy cutting down a small live tree for firewood. I yelled out "Don't cut down live trees in the forest"....... He was dragging dead branches after that. Good grief!! :mad: We were having lunch at Cow Camp Gap shelter a couple weeks ago and the register was mostly gone - burned I'm sure. The mice had chewed what was left.

coolness
12-21-2012, 10:22
Tor - AND they throw trash into the recycling bins!! I saw a lady open her car door awhile back at a stop light, drop trash and close her door. I yelled at her to pick it up and of course she ignored me.:mad:

The Cleaner
12-21-2012, 10:30
That kind of people exist everywhere. Its hard to get into their minds and understand what their reasonings are. It boils down to that they dont care.....at all. Same kind that throw trash out the car windows, hauling off trash from home and dumping it in the woods, trashing public restrooms to the point they are health hazards..

You can't reason with such people.

Sent from my Droid I can't imagine having these people at a shelter where I'm camping:eek:.....

Cookerhiker
12-21-2012, 11:11
That kind of people exist everywhere. Its hard to get into their minds and understand what their reasonings are. It boils down to that they dont care.....at all. Same kind that throw trash out the car windows, hauling off trash from home and dumping it in the woods, trashing public restrooms to the point they are health hazards..

You can't reason with such people.

Sent from my Droid

At the ALDHA Gathering, a woman told me she had stationed herself by a road crossing giving hikers water and offering to take their trash. One young thruhiker said he had no trash. After he moved on, she walked up in the direction he had come from and noticed a pile of fresh litter right besides the Trail.

Not practical but it's almost enough to want to require hikers to take a training course on basics.

Rasty
12-21-2012, 12:22
That kind of people exist everywhere. Its hard to get into their minds and understand what their reasonings are. It boils down to that they dont care.....at all. Same kind that throw trash out the car windows, hauling off trash from home and dumping it in the woods, trashing public restrooms to the point they are health hazards..

You can't reason with such people.

Sent from my Droid

At the ALDHA Gathering, a woman told me she had stationed herself by a road crossing giving hikers water and offering to take their trash. One young thruhiker said he had no trash. After he moved on, she walked up in the direction he had come from and noticed a pile of fresh litter right besides the Trail.

Not practical but it's almost enough to want to require hikers to take a training course on basics.

I don't think any class is going to teach them anything. Most people only learn from pain. Pain from fines or being chastised.

Cookerhiker
12-21-2012, 12:41
... Pain from fines or being chastised.

Which their parents never did to them. My late grandmother blamed all the world's problems on bad parenting. Can't say she was totally wrong.

The Cleaner
12-21-2012, 12:43
I guess I can hijack my own thread.....Many times at several shelters that have bear lines,I've taken down bags of trash left hanging......Just like the blooming early spring wildflowers,all kinds of litter&trash sprout up at shelters&regularly used campsites....

Rain Man
12-21-2012, 12:55
I think worse is finding privies full of empty beer bottles. Have run across that more than once, and to me, that is much worse than breaking or cutting off a shovel handle, which by comparison is easy to fix or simply take away. Beer bottles in a privy is even worse than the time I almost stepped in someone's "dump",-- with TP,-- smack dab in the middle of the trail. Even that is far easier to fix than beer bottles in a privy.

Rain Man

.

Half-trac
12-21-2012, 15:40
blood mt had makeover fire place works great.

Blue Mountain Edward
12-21-2012, 16:54
It is common for hikets to drop gear once they get exhausted. That shovel should have stayed in a shelter with a broom.

Hairbear
12-21-2012, 18:28
Sounds like time for a witch hunt...she wasnt stealing them she was test driving them.

Hairbear
12-21-2012, 18:29
Nothing like the fumes coming off of pressure treated fires!or plastic in the campfires

Hairbear
12-21-2012, 18:39
ive never hiked the at yet,but in reading all the negative things about it.everything seems to stem from shelters.if they all burned down would the trail be better or worse?

Sarcasm the elf
12-21-2012, 21:14
ive never hiked the at yet,but in reading all the negative things about it.everything seems to stem from shelters.if they all burned down would the trail be better or worse?

Hairbear, the Internet is a great place for people to rant about things that piss them off (I'm as guilty as anyone else). While all of the stories listed in this thread are probably true, don't let that trick you into thinking that these posts are a accurate representation of the what it's like to hike the trail. I'd say that 95% of the human interactions I've had on the trail have been entirely positive, and the other 5% weren't anything that was enough to ruin my day.

There are a certain percentage of idiots in all walks of life, and everyone else still ends up being an idiot every once in a while, the trick is not to let it get you down.

With regards to the shelters, they serve the purpose of concentrating the heaviest camping use (and often also the dumbest individuals) into one spot. Even then most of the shelter sites are okay to stay at. In my opinion the main advantage of them is to keep the rest of the trail in better shape...and bless the folks that take care of them, they deserve our thanks.

MuddyWaters
12-21-2012, 22:30
ive never hiked the at yet,but in reading all the negative things about it.everything seems to stem from shelters.if they all burned down would the trail be better or worse?

Depends on your point of view.
I think I read once that the reason the BMT doesnt have shelters (it has 2), it because they realized that shelters were largely responsible for the amount of traffic the AT sees, i.e. they attract people.

Dogwood
12-21-2012, 22:32
First, thanks to The Cleaner for your volunteer and shelter caretaker work. It's folks like you who can make the AT shelters better places. Some thoughts below though.

Second, some are jumping to assumptions. Perhaps, some may label me as gullible too but maybe I'm just trying to look at events without jumping to possibly incorrect conclusions. The handle may not have been deliberately or maliciously damaged! It MAY have been damaged, cracked, or broken on accident. I also have seen several old dried out wooden handles on axes, rakes, shovels, etc suddenly break usually near where it looks like that handle broke in the pic. Then again, I can't tell from the pic but the handle could have been sawn off, for whatever reason I we would only be speculating.

Third, don't automatically assume it's hikers who have done this. It could have bee hunters(we did and are still experiencing hunting season and hunters sometimes do use the shelters) or folks partying. And yes, sometimes hikers are also hunters and partyers. I'm just saying there are other possibilities of who might have done this IF it was a malicious disrepectful inconsiderate act.


...the handle might have broken off (with a pretty smooth break) during routine use. I have had a few older shovels.... The wooden handles get old and one day they just snap during routine use--usually right about where this one is broken off--or maybe just a tad lower. Obviously handles do break over time. That is why they have handles for sale at hardware stores...

Obviously, this COULD be what ocurred.


Chances are someone used the shovel to dig a cathole. Broke the handle using too much leverage.
Someone else cut it with their saw so that it wouldn't be so dangerous.
Or, someone needed a splint????

Then again, maybe they were just some a$$holes who wanted their fire to go a little longer and were too stoned to go out in the woods to get firewood.
Who knows?
IT's all speculation.

More possibilities. But also more speculation involved too.


...but upon my arrival I found that someone crapped 5ft from the side of the shelter, left crap & TP right there. I took shovel and burned it in the fireplace.....

I know you meant well The Cleaner but I'll remind myself not to light a fire in that shelter's fireplace anytime soon! Probably, would have been better off if you had dug a sufficiently deep cathole away from the shelter and buried the waste rather than trying to dispose of it that way.


Whom ever did that is as useless as a shovel with no handle.

Actually, the shovel, even with the missing length of wooden handle, is still useful. It's the same with broken broom handles I've seen at a few AT shelters. Just cut or smooth the broken wooden handle so that it can't mistakenly stab or impale someone or be used as a weenie roaster over a fire.


Never see a shelter with a fire place that ain't trashed. I can understand why they bricked over the one at Blood Mt.

Isn't that the truth? Having a fireplace or cast iron stove inside(I recall maybe two AT shelters that had cast iron stoves inside in 2006) an AT shelter just increases the possible abuse of the shelter and the surrounding environment. I would advise any AT shelter caretaker that cares for a shelter with a fireplace to clearly post some rules/procedures about safely and conscientiously caring for this convenience!


One spring we hiked into Kid Gore Shelter in Vermont on our first maintenance trip of the year to discover someone had broken up the inside table (Kid Gore has bunks on either side with a table between) and used it to build a fire on the shelter floor!

I don't know if the Clement Shelter in VT is still standing but I noticed much of the same had gone on there.


We were camping at the Devil's Marbleyard a few weeks ago and we saw a guy cutting down a small live tree for firewood. I yelled out "Don't cut down live trees in the forest"....... He was dragging dead branches after that. Good grief!....

Which is another example of why some National and State Parks have outlawed live wood gathering, campfires, or gathering ANY TYPE of firewood, even firewood already lying dead on the ground. I've all too often experienced the destruction of the nearby forests for gathering firewood where humans congregate.


Hairbear, the Internet is a great place for people to rant about things that piss them off (I'm as guilty as anyone else). While all of the stories listed in this thread are probably true, don't let that trick you into thinking that these posts are a accurate representation of the what it's like to hike the trail. I'd say that 95% of the human interactions I've had on the trail have been entirely positive, and the other 5% weren't anything that was enough to ruin my day.

There are a certain percentage of idiots in all walks of life, and everyone else still ends up being an idiot every once in a while, the trick is not to let it get you down.

With regards to the shelters, they serve the purpose of concentrating the heaviest camping use (and often also the dumbest individuals) into one spot. Even then most of the shelter sites are okay to stay at. In my opinion the main advantage of them is to keep the rest of the trail in better shape...and bless the folks that take care of them, they deserve our thanks.

Well stated STE.

Lastly, The Cleaner, inspite of my rant, in light of your volunteer work and me being in the landscaping field and having lines of credit with Home Depot., Lowes, etc let me extend to you the offer of replacing a shovel, broom, etc totally at my cost. I would feel honored if I could help you replace any broken or damaged hand tools for the AT shelter you care for. I have quite a few different used spare shovels(square pt, round tip, short/long handle, steel and fiberglaass handles, spare wooden shovel handles, etc) or could offer a line of credit under my biz name or mail you a H.D. or Lowes Gift Card. PM me if interested. Again, I would be pleased if I could assist you with new handtools.

Nean
12-22-2012, 05:03
I find that respectless people have become so common that it's "almost normal."

Speaking as a writer, the thought of some neanderthals doing a Fahrenheit 451 on people's written self-expression just reflexively saddened me. The destruction of shelter property is equally saddening.

What does that mean? Sorry- I no writer....

Toli
12-22-2012, 07:09
First, thanks to The Cleaner for your volunteer and shelter caretaker work. It's folks like you who can make the AT shelters better places. Some thoughts below though.

Second, some are jumping to assumptions. Perhaps, some may label me as gullible too but maybe I'm just trying to look at events without jumping to possibly incorrect conclusions. The handle may not have been deliberately or maliciously damaged! It MAY have been damaged, cracked, or broken on accident. I also have seen several old dried out wooden handles on axes, rakes, shovels, etc suddenly break usually near where it looks like that handle broke in the pic. Then again, I can't tell from the pic but the handle could have been sawn off, for whatever reason I we would only be speculating.

Third, don't automatically assume it's hikers who have done this. It could have bee hunters(we did and are still experiencing hunting season and hunters sometimes do use the shelters) or folks partying. And yes, sometimes hikers are also hunters and partyers. I'm just saying there are other possibilities of who might have done this IF it was a malicious disrepectful inconsiderate act.



Obviously, this COULD be what ocurred.



More possibilities. But also more speculation involved too.



I know you meant well The Cleaner but I'll remind myself not to light a fire in that shelter's fireplace anytime soon! Probably, would have been better off if you had dug a sufficiently deep cathole away from the shelter and buried the waste rather than trying to dispose of it that way.



Actually, the shovel, even with the missing length of wooden handle, is still useful. It's the same with broken broom handles I've seen at a few AT shelters. Just cut or smooth the broken wooden handle so that it can't mistakenly stab or impale someone or be used as a weenie roaster over a fire.



Isn't that the truth? Having a fireplace or cast iron stove inside(I recall maybe two AT shelters that had cast iron stoves inside in 2006) an AT shelter just increases the possible abuse of the shelter and the surrounding environment. I would advise any AT shelter caretaker that cares for a shelter with a fireplace to clearly post some rules/procedures about safely and conscientiously caring for this convenience!



I don't know if the Clement Shelter in VT is still standing but I noticed much of the same had gone on there.



Which is another example of why some National and State Parks have outlawed live wood gathering, campfires, or gathering ANY TYPE of firewood, even firewood already lying dead on the ground. I've all too often experienced the destruction of the nearby forests for gathering firewood where humans congregate.



Well stated STE.

Lastly, The Cleaner, inspite of my rant, in light of your volunteer work and me being in the landscaping field and having lines of credit with Home Depot., Lowes, etc let me extend to you the offer of replacing a shovel, broom, etc totally at my cost. I would feel honored if I could help you replace any broken or damaged hand tools for the AT shelter you care for. I have quite a few different used spare shovels(square pt, round tip, short/long handle, steel and fiberglaass handles, spare wooden shovel handles, etc) or could offer a line of credit under my biz name or mail you a H.D. or Lowes Gift Card. PM me if interested. Again, I would be pleased if I could assist you with new handtools.

​AWESOMENESS... Both you and The Cleaner :D...

aficion
12-22-2012, 07:31
Shelters suck. People who maintain them, don't!

The Cleaner
12-22-2012, 10:06
Well thanks for all the replies folks,it probably will remain a mystery as to how the shovel was broken.Bear hunters have been known to stay at the shelter during the short TN bear hunting season.On my way over to Jerry's Cabin I pass by Little Laurel shelter.On that trip I found at,Little Laurel,one of the worst situations that I have seen lately.Upon arrival there,the bunk was littered with 3-4 small wine boxes,empty,2 FULL ones,a pint vodka plastic bottle,1 unopened package of bacon,1 foil pack of tuna,a plastic bag w/several cups of pasta and a half eaten cup 'o noodles cup.In the firepit was more partially eaten food and green wood from a freshly cut white pine tree.So like usual I cleaned out the firepit setting aside all the leftover food.Then I started a small hot fire,with good dry wood.Into the fire went EVERYTHING,food, wine boxes and the plastic :eek: stuff too.While burning all the trash I walked around picking up cigarette butts and other stuff,throwing this in the fire too.Then as the fire was burning low I picked out all the foil and a can or two.I put the foil in the cans the flattened the cans for packing out.Well that's how I clean-up,burn what I can&pack out the rest.Once a hiker ask if I was going to burn plastic and my reply was are you going to pack it out?No reply.Over the years I have found,left behind at shelters,clothes,boots,camp shoes and all kinds of stuff.Rarely was anything usable and a few times I did leave unburnable stuff thinking some hiker might use this,only to find most stuff still there on a later trip.I do not day hike in to do clean-ups,I usually stay a night or two and try to clean 2 shelters.Then pack out all unburned stuff the last day.As to the broken shovel I'd say the group that trashed Little Laurel probably somehow either on purpose pr not,broke/sawed off the handle.Well no big deal the shovel can still be used to clean the fireplace.I'm sure on my next trip I'll find some trash,hopefully not a giant mess or burned broom.It's just all in a day's work for The Cleaner.One last note for Dogwood,when I burned the crap I had a very hot fire going and I'm sure that it was completely burned.I even toasted bagels on the fire the next morning:rolleyes:....1851818519

Rain Man
12-22-2012, 10:13
...I do not day hike in to do clean-ups,I usually stay a night or two and try to clean 2 shelters.Then pack out all unburned stuff the last day....

THANK YOU!!!!

Rain Man

.

Lone Wolf
12-22-2012, 10:54
burning tras and poop in the fire pit is disgusting. fire pits are for wood only

bfayer
12-22-2012, 11:53
What does that mean? Sorry- I no writer....

In the book Fahrenheit 451 the government burns books.

An earlier comment was made about people burning shelter registers.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

The Cleaner
12-22-2012, 12:16
burning tras and poop in the fire pit is disgusting. fire pits are for wood only LW I can assure you that whenever I've burned trash and or poop in any fireplace or pit there were very few, if any other hikers around and I had a very hot fire to ensure complete combustion/sanitization of anything I burned.Then I would go through the ashes,removing foil&cans for packing out...18520

coolness
12-22-2012, 16:25
Thanks for all your hard work, The Cleaner. :) It's saddening to see all the trash people leave behind. I practice LNT on the trail and will burn or pack it out. (except you know what, I bury that) We picked up an empty Marlboro pack along the trail a couple weeks ago. Awful hard to carry that out in your pocket.

Yeah, that shovel handle could've met it's demise in a number of ways......

The Cleaner
12-22-2012, 18:59
Thinking about heading up Christmas Eve morning w/new shovel.May spend the night,possible white xmas up there! Any others welcome.....

MuddyWaters
12-22-2012, 19:44
Thinking about heading up Christmas Eve morning w/new shovel.May spend the night,possible white xmas up there! Any others welcome.....


You cant just replace the handle on the other one?
Yeah, I know its a lot of trouble.

The disposable world we live in, where today it is cheaper to throw things away than fix simple problems just annoys me. Its impossible to buy a quality version of some items anymore because everything is intended to be disposable. Just seems so wasteful.

Its incredible that its cheaper to make a new item in China, ship it over the ocean on a ship for 30 days, truck it to a store, and sell it to you, than it is to do a simple repair on an otherwise good item. What a crazy world.

HikerMom58
12-22-2012, 19:47
Thinking about heading up Christmas Eve morning w/new shovel.May spend the night,possible white xmas up there! Any others welcome.....

I hope you can find someone to join you, Cleaner. Thanks for your good work. :) Dogwood - Impressed with your generosity. :)

I stayed at the Flint Mountain Shelter. There was something making weird noises around my tent that night.

There was a guy on a 4 wheeler that drove really close to the shelter at 5 AM. We had met him the night before. He had a dog that had a radio- controlled collar. We wondered if he used the dog for hunting. He said he only lived 1 mile away.... seemed nice. Do you know who he is?

Dogwood
12-22-2012, 21:03
While I appreciate your kind comments Toli and HikerMomKD, we always have to remind oursleves, the AT wouldn't exist, or be what it is, without a whole lot of people, including govt entities, politicians with a vision towards maintaining a connection with the outdoors, private trail consrtruction and maintenance clubs/groups, biz organizations, private land owners, those that support trails financially, trail angels, conservation groups, MANY volunteers, etc that come together and work to make it happen. Whenever I see folks making a trail and the trail experience a better experience we need to realize a whole lot of resources need to come together to make it happen! This is true to some extent on every trail!

Instead of getting in the habit of simply bitching about what's not right I think we(I) need to be aware of what's good and stand with/assist those making a positive difference, which people like The Cleaner are obviously doing. If thru-hiking has taught me anything it's that there are still good people in the world enhancing the lives of others!

HikerMom58
12-22-2012, 21:57
While I appreciate your kind comments Toli and HikerMomKD, we always have to remind oursleves, the AT wouldn't exist, or be what it is, without a whole lot of people, including govt entities, politicians with a vision towards maintaining a connection with the outdoors, private trail consrtruction and maintenance clubs/groups, biz organizations, private land owners, those that support trails financially, trail angels, conservation groups, MANY volunteers, etc that come together and work to make it happen. Whenever I see folks making a trail and the trail experience a better experience we need to realize a whole lot of resources need to come together to make it happen! This is true to some extent on every trail!

Instead of getting in the habit of simply bitching about what's not right I think we(I) need to be aware of what's good and stand with/assist those making a positive difference, which people like The Cleaner are obviously doing. If thru-hiking has taught me anything it's that there are still good people in the world enhancing the lives of others!

So true & I love the way you expressed it. :)

Sarcasm the elf
12-23-2012, 01:04
While I appreciate your kind comments Toli and HikerMomKD, we always have to remind oursleves, the AT wouldn't exist, or be what it is, without a whole lot of people, including govt entities, politicians with a vision towards maintaining a connection with the outdoors, private trail consrtruction and maintenance clubs/groups, biz organizations, private land owners, those that support trails financially, trail angels, conservation groups, MANY volunteers, etc that come together and work to make it happen. Whenever I see folks making a trail and the trail experience a better experience we need to realize a whole lot of resources need to come together to make it happen! This is true to some extent on every trail!

Instead of getting in the habit of simply bitching about what's not right I think we(I) need to be aware of what's good and stand with/assist those making a positive difference, which people like The Cleaner are obviously doing. If thru-hiking has taught me anything it's that there are still good people in the world enhancing the lives of others!

Totally true dogwood, one of my favorite posts on this site was from Matthewski, I can't recall the exact quote, bit it was basically: "The Appalachian Trail isn't a wilderness trail, it's a tiny ribbon of hope which we all need to keep alive."

mrgadget921
12-23-2012, 22:14
looking at that shovel and admiring the old tool... well made heavy straight edge old school.... {collectible?}
makes me wander if some wanna be --hiker needed a hatchet?
love my tools! investments in iron! my pack is heavy because of "may need " or "what if?" hope to never need but...

The Cleaner
12-24-2012, 09:31
looking at that shovel and admiring the old tool... well made heavy straight edge old school.... {collectible?}
makes me wander if some wanna be --hiker needed a hatchet?
love my tools! investments in iron! my pack is heavy because of "may need " or "what if?" hope to never need but... Like I said in the OP that shovel has been in my family for a long time.I remember using it as a kid.I think it was from the brand "True Temper".....probably made in the early 60s....

Pedaling Fool
12-24-2012, 18:00
I think worse is finding privies full of empty beer bottles....
Rain Man

.
I've heard of people dumping trash in a privy, now that's just a total low-life form. If I were a maintainer, I wouldn't bother trying to get it out until the pile was completely composted. And if it was a pit-style privy...too bad it's staying there -- just one more reason pit-style privies don't belong on the AT.

Hairbear
12-25-2012, 16:54
Hairbear, the Internet is a great place for people to rant about things that piss them off (I'm as guilty as anyone else). While all of the stories listed in this thread are probably true, don't let that trick you into thinking that these posts are a accurate representation of the what it's like to hike the trail. I'd say that 95% of the human interactions I've had on the trail have been entirely positive, and the other 5% weren't anything that was enough to ruin my day.

There are a certain percentage of idiots in all walks of life, and everyone else still ends up being an idiot every once in a while, the trick is not to let it get you down.

With regards to the shelters, they serve the purpose of concentrating the heaviest camping use (and often also the dumbest individuals) into one spot. Even then most of the shelter sites are okay to stay at. In my opinion the main advantage of them is to keep the rest of the trail in better shape...and bless the folks that take care of them, they deserve our thanks.
thanks...maybe everyone that intends to hike should figure in 1 week of trail /shelter work before the hike.

Hairbear
12-25-2012, 16:57
anyone know of the trail maintainance crew that works in the pawling area?

Cure
12-27-2012, 23:23
Maybe it was used for a game of cricket! Lol

sgt easy
12-29-2012, 19:52
so, now it's an ultralight shovel.....remind anyone of their toothbrushes???

Papa D
12-29-2012, 20:28
I always get a kick out of doing some random maintenance project on my own at a shelter- - consolidating a fire ring, sweeping up, I've even used my tyvek groundcloth and and wedges of wood to patch roofs - - I get giggly when I think about someone coming in behind me and looking around and saying, wow, that's cool, somebody fixed that ____ .

The Snowman
12-29-2012, 21:49
anyone know of the trail maintainance crew that works in the pawling area?

that would be the NY/NJ Trail Confrencee.

bfayer
01-01-2013, 11:06
I always get a kick out of doing some random maintenance project on my own at a shelter- - consolidating a fire ring, sweeping up, I've even used my tyvek groundcloth and and wedges of wood to patch roofs - - I get giggly when I think about someone coming in behind me and looking around and saying, wow, that's cool, somebody fixed that ____ .

Thank you for your hard work.

If there were more people that left things better than they found them, this world would be a much better place.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

shelterbuilder
01-01-2013, 14:16
Having been involved with shelters/maintenence for over 25 years, i occassionally think that I've seen it all, but every so often, some @$$hole comes up with something new.

A few years ago, I was doing one of my annual shelter inspections - at the OLD Rausch Gap Shelter - and found that someone had built 2 fires on opposite sides of the shelter (walls are half-stone, then wood up to the roof) in an attempt to WARM A 3-SIDED SHELTER in the wintertime! The scorch-marks went half-way up the logs!!!

I've hauled out camp chairs, GI-surplus down sleeping bags, carpet and padding, MILES of plastic sheeting and tarps - and hundreds of pounds of trash and food left for "others" - and it never seems to end. There are a lot of folks out there who would never think of "$h!tting in their own nest", but who think nothing of trashing "other people's places"...but hope springs eternal, so I try to educate folks when I can, and keep on cleaning up after the @$$holes....

Thanks for what YOU do, The Cleaner.

joshuasdad
01-01-2013, 14:58
A few years ago, I was doing one of my annual shelter inspections - at the OLD Rausch Gap Shelter - and found that someone had built 2 fires on opposite sides of the shelter (walls are half-stone, then wood up to the roof) in an attempt to WARM A 3-SIDED SHELTER in the wintertime! The scorch-marks went half-way up the logs!!!


I just saw the same thing at Moreland Gap Shelter (the first one SOBO from Kincora). Painted block walls were scorched halfway up to the roof on one side of the shelter. I am not sure if the scorching was from one fire, or multiple ones.

I saw two hikers that built a fire there the night before (they were backtracking and abandoning their hike after a cold night there). It was a very cold, windy and rainy night (night of 12/23/12, had to keep the faucets dripping at Kincora to preserve the plumbing), and the lips of one of the hikers looked blue, so it might arguably have been a survival issue. However, the site was somewhat trashed (trash strewn about, including inside the outside fire ring, remnants of fire still in shelter), and there was a fresh signature on the painted wall dated 12/23/12, so I am thinking that this was not a group with a "leave no trace" mentality.

shelterbuilder
01-01-2013, 21:22
I just saw the same thing at Moreland Gap Shelter (the first one SOBO from Kincora). Painted block walls were scorched halfway up to the roof on one side of the shelter. I am not sure if the scorching was from one fire, or multiple ones.

I saw two hikers that built a fire there the night before (they were backtracking and abandoning their hike after a cold night there). It was a very cold, windy and rainy night (night of 12/23/12, had to keep the faucets dripping at Kincora to preserve the plumbing), and the lips of one of the hikers looked blue, so it might arguably have been a survival issue. However, the site was somewhat trashed (trash strewn about, including inside the outside fire ring, remnants of fire still in shelter), and there was a fresh signature on the painted wall dated 12/23/12, so I am thinking that this was not a group with a "leave no trace" mentality.

LNT mentality is something that has to be hammered into some people...I'll GLADLY pay for the hammers!

The Native Americans used to have a saying about being cold in the winter; it went something like this: "White man get cold, build huge fire, take many steps back, still cold; red man get cold, build small fire, get close, stay warm." The logic of this escapes many of my white bretheren....