How bad are the rodents in the shelters in GA?

[foreversuperawesome]

I'll be doing the AT in January and I'm wondering how many rodents is there going to be in January in the shelters in Geogia.

I have my own tent, but it would be nice to not set it up and shack up in the shelter once in a while and last thing I want is a mice/rat walking on me or worst, get in my sleeping bag.


Thoughts?

[ChinMusic]

Those mice should be good and hungry in January.

[Gray Blazer]

Never say never, but, I'll never sleep in a shelter because I don't like mice crawling on me while I'm sleeping. I speak from experience.

[johnnybgood]

I'm wondering how many rodents is there going to be in January in the shelters in Geogia.




they work in shifts....:)

[SCRUB HIKER]

The rodent thing is so overblown on this website. Hang your food on the mouse trapezes (they look like this 18562 and are in almost every shelter) and don't have your head in the very back corner of the shelter and you will sleep undisturbed 99 times out of 100. Unless mice are your Room 101 fear, it would be dumb to skip out on shelter use just because they're around.

[RyanK817]

I agree with Scrub Hiker that it's overblown on here, but I did a section this past January and stayed at Gooch Mtn Shelter. I put all my food on the bear line and hung everything else from nails in the shelter. It rained that night, and when I woke up the next morning a mouse had climbed the bear line and chewed through my stuff sack into my food bag, and another had chewed up the mouth piece of my water bladder hanging in the shelter. They may only get you one time out of a hundred, but that one time will be a major bummer. I'd take advantage of the plethora of tentsites along the trail at the very least through Neels Gap if it was convenient.

[hikerboy57]

if you cook them properly, they arent bad at all.
think tarragon.

[aficion]

Never say never, but, I'll never sleep in a shelter because I don't like mice crawling on me while I'm sleeping. I speak from experience. I will sleep in a shelter again only after reincarnation as a cat.

[Malto]

I avoided shelters completely until last week in Tn. Of the four nights there was only one that had severe mouse problems, Tri Corner. I finally had to resort to hanging my pack and food from my bear line from a rafter. They must not have been able to climb that skinny slippery cord. Perfect night sleep after. It was amazing how loud a mouse is running down a cuben fiber rain suit.

[MuddyWaters]

It just varies.
May not see a mouse, or it might be a circus.
I sleep with earplugs, they dont bother me much.

[mrcoffeect]

I found the shelter mice in georgia to be much more polite, than the shelter mice in connecticut . I think it's southern hospitality.

[Del Q]

Ditto Vermont, got to the top of Killington in the rain after dark.........Cooper Lodge, ate what I had left of a sandwich as the critters began stirring, gutsy little rodents, no windows, skeevy shelter, decided to pitch my tent and deal with the rain, good decision, 3rd hiker during that Vermont hike who had their gear chewed on during the night, this time a nice big hole in her down sleeping bag!

With the new super lightweight tents I don't ever see going out without one...........be it in GA, VT or the PCT.

[Half Note]

^--That would be my biggest issue is the ruining of gear. I'm hoping they won't be too big of a problem as they are made out to be.

[Two Speed]

The rodent thing is so overblown on this website . . . it would be dumb to skip out on shelter use just because they're around.All it takes is one mouse doing a burn out on your face to change your opinion on shelters.

That, or observing how much gear gets chewed up by mice might do the trick. Or maybe thinking about the amount of time spent "mouse proofing" your food and gear, and how often the mice manage to defeat all those counter measures, and tear the crap out of gear or screw someone's food up anyway.

I'll check back with you in a couple of years.
if you cook them properly, they arent bad at all.
think tarragon.So how many mice does it take to make one decent sized hiker meal?

[daddytwosticks]

It just varies.
May not see a mouse, or it might be a circus.
I sleep with earplugs, they dont bother me much. Agree. When you get to the shelter, just read the register. If there is an active mouse problem, it will usually be mentioned in the register. It no mention of the problem, stay in the shelter. If there is, just tent nearby and still enjoy the amenities there. :)

[Wise Old Owl]

http://www.examiner.com/article/what-appalachian-trail-hikers-need-to-know-about-the-hantavirus

Nearly every state except Georgia that the Appalachian Trail (http://www.examiner.com/topic/appalachian-trail) runs through has seen the Deer Mouse, known to science as the Peromyscus Maniculatus mouse. What is so important about this little mouse if you are hiking (http://www.examiner.com/topic/hiking-84/articles) the Appalachian Trail? Well if you’ve hiked any portion of this trail you will know that all along the trail there are built what the hikers call AT shelters. The problem with these shelters are they are riddled with mice, and in every state except Georgia the mice can be the deer mouse and the deer mouse carries a potentially deadly disease called the Hantavirus (http://www.examiner.com/topic/hantavirus/articles).

[Rasty]

All it takes is one mouse doing a burn out on your face to change your opinion on shelters.

That, or observing how much gear gets chewed up by mice might do the trick. Or maybe thinking about the amount of time spent "mouse proofing" your food and gear, and how often the mice manage to defeat all those counter measures, and tear the crap out of gear or screw someone's food up anyway.

I'll check back with you in a couple of years.So how many mice does it take to make one decent sized hiker meal?

Six should do it!
18566

[Grampie]

The mice in most shelters are bad. You must except the fact that you are the one invading their home. I had carried some gorp in a zip lock in my gortex rain jacket and forgot it was in there. During the night a mouse got into my pack, hanging on the wall, and ate a hole in my jacket to get to the gorp. Later on in the spring when the snakes come out of hibernation they eat a lot of mice so it isn't that bad. If you want to stay in a shelter you have to get use to the mice.

[Gray Blazer]

The mice thing is not overblown on WB. They will eat holes in your pack even if there is no food in there. They are always looking for nesting material and TP is good for that.

[Gray Blazer]

I will sleep in a shelter again only after reincarnation as a cat.

Or a black snake.

[SCRUB HIKER]

You all are proving my point that it's overblown. Out of 19 responses, only three people including me have said not to worry about mice. That is ridiculously out of proportion to what you see on the trail. Almost every single hiker I knew on the AT would and did sleep in a shelter in a heartbeat if they knew it wasn't going to be crowded or if there wasn't going to be a snorer or a creepy guy in there. People are the animal that force hikers out of shelters more than anything else--no one talked about mice after the initial jitters in Georgia. In fact, after spending five months on the trail (and yes, I recognize that many commenters have more experience than me on this count), the only time I heard of someone's gear getting eaten by a rodent was my friend Foon who was sleeping IN HIS TENT when something nibbled through his food back and one sock. He somehow managed to survive this catastrophic turn of events.

If all we have to go off of is anecdotal evidence, then mine says: Me and my friends slept in AT shelters constantly for five months. We never had problems.

Also, the hantavirus thing is a grossly misplaced fear. Hantavirus infections have shown up on the East Coast, but the vast majority of them are in the arid and semiarid parts of the West because mouse poop needs to dry and aerosolize really fast (48 hours or less) before the virus dies, and then be breathed in by humans. The East is most of the time too humid for humans to contract it. The rate of infection in humans is also minuscule. There was one case of hantavirus for every 175 West Nile cases diagnosed last year (http://www.outsideonline.com/adventure-travel/north-america/united-states/national-parks/Death-at-Yosemite-The-Story-Behind-Last-Summers-Hantavirus-Outbreak.html?page=all). One case of hantavirus for every 800 of Lyme disease. I will continue to sleep soundly in shelters on the AT knowing that I am more likely to get mauled by a wild boar in my sleep or have ball lightning sear a hole in my abdomen than contract hantavirus. If you're going to go fear-mongering about a disease, at least read up on the likelihood of anyone on the AT contracting it first.

[Camel2012]

If people wouldn't kill them, dropping a rat snake at each shelter would solve the problem, but most people have an unreasonable fear of all snakes, and this wouldn't work this time of year.

I considered doing this a couple times, but was afraid it would just get killed, and i didn't want to be responsible for that.

I would take a rat snake any day over mice, and they also kill rattlesnake and copperhead... Win-win situation to me.

[Tipi Walter]

.................................................. .........

[kayak karl]

the nite of 1/1/09 at Hawk Mt shelter mice got in my pack and chewed holes in my long-johns and rain pants. the rain pants had a hole in the crotch. i patched it with an X made of duct-tape.

[Wise Old Owl]

foreversuperawesome Part of being in the woods is getting close to nature - Well welcome to WB as I can see you are new. Your tent isn't mouse proof and deep down you are mentioning your fears. To be honest if you are hiking the trail you will be too tired to worry about mice on you. There are worse things that come into shelters - Skunks, Bats, Wood Roaches, Porcupines, and Snakes. The list is huge....

[Two Speed]

Six should do it!
18566Nice, seriously, well done, particularly if that's your won work . . . but somehow a chocolate mouse doing a burn out on my face isn't making me feel any better.

That and I had more of a barbeque vision. Probably just a personal hang up.

Maybe some beef bouillon, barley and Rotel? Gotta address the whole nutrition thing, ya know.

[Two Speed]

own, not won, dammit.

[Praha4]

the shelters in GA tend to have more of a rodent problem due to the large thru-hiker traffic and the amount of food waste and garbage left out. My experiences in GA were that Hawk Mtn shelter was by far the worst for mice problems. I started using an Ursack food bag, mice can't chew into that bag it is worth the money. That all said, if you are starting in January the mice may not be as bad as later in the spring when temps warm up. good luck

[MuddyWaters]

The deer mouse does exist in georgia, only in the blue ridge.
One of the first hantavirus infections recorded in the US in 1993 was an AT hiker who believed to have caught it in Va.

Important to note that Lyme etc. is not fatal to 40% of those that contract it. like hantavirus is.

Totally without proof, I have a suspicion that hantavirus is like west nile, or other overblown things.
Can be devastating to some people, but not everyone will be succeptible to it , for whatever reason.
If they were, people would be dying left and right for years

Of course, viruses morph and change too.

[RedBeerd]

My first night on the LT a bat flew into the shelter with me and was flapping around like crazy..scared the **** out of me. After that I thought about bats, not mice. At one shelter there was this cute fat little mouse that was bolder than bold. The little guy was basically eating out of my hand. If a shelter smelled like mouse urine I would tent. Or if mice were running around in the day I would move on. Not a fear of them (I live near a field in an old Victorian. Mice are inevitable) its more about avoiding the gear damage mentioned already. Tenting is better anyways.

[BFI]

I heard that a mouse ate a hiker in his sleep, that must of been one hungry mouse to sleep eat...

[kayak karl]

there are no BAD rodents. just rodents who are not taught manners, appropriate social skills, patience and self-control turn in to adults mice who are out of control and headed for trouble. :D

[Pedaling Fool]

I'd just sleep in my tent. But as far as rodents in Georgia, I don't think they're any worse there than anywhere else. Seems to me some of the worst stories I've heard about was in SNP, but also heard some bad things north of there, especially Dick's Dome, but I'm just going off stories heard.

[Wise Old Owl]

You all are proving my point that it's overblown. Out of 19 responses, only three people including me have said not to worry about mice.
If all we have to go off of is anecdotal evidence, then mine says: Me and my friends slept in AT shelters constantly for five months. We never had problems.

Also, the hantavirus thing is a grossly misplaced fear. Hantavirus infections have shown up on the East Coast, but the vast majority of them are in the arid and semiarid parts of the West because mouse poop needs to dry and aerosolize really fast (48 hours or less) before the virus dies, and then be breathed in by humans. The East is most of the time too humid for humans to contract it. The rate of infection in humans is also minuscule. There was one case of hantavirus for every 175 West Nile cases diagnosed last year (http://www.outsideonline.com/adventure-travel/north-america/united-states/national-parks/Death-at-Yosemite-The-Story-Behind-Last-Summers-Hantavirus-Outbreak.html?page=all). One case of hantavirus for every 800 of Lyme disease. I will continue to sleep soundly in shelters on the AT knowing that I am more likely to get mauled by a wild boar in my sleep or have ball lightning sear a hole in my abdomen than contract hantavirus. If you're going to go fear-mongering about a disease, at least read up on the likelihood of anyone on the AT contracting it first.

To be honest - I have had ticks, cockroaches, mice, rats, snakes, skunks happen to me on the AT. We do have one "documented" case of Huntavirus on the AT from Newspapers. There are no absolutes, never say it can't happen. I am not downplaying or creating fear. There are plenty of things to make you sick. I have had Lyme and my dad & I came down with Rocky Mountain together after a section hike on the AT.

I am in Pest Control. And John is right - they are everywhere.

[ChinMusic]

Just bring a bottle of bobcat urine and sprinkle it around your bag and on your pack.

[hikerboy57]

Just bring a bottle of bobcat urine and sprinkle it around your bag and on your pack.
king kullen was sold out.so was costco

[Lyle]

Occasionally you will get some damage from rodents. Most of the time you won't. Hang your food/packs. Sleep with your head to the door, away from the walls. I now keep my water bladder hose up, out of the way since a mouse chewed and destroyed one. That won't be a problem in winter, most folks find water bottles more convenient than dealing with frozen hoses.

I agree, critter worries are overblown. Are problems possible, yeah. Frequent? nope.

[ChinMusic]

king kullen was sold out.so was costco

Lone Wolf catches his own bobcat before sleeping in shelters..........

[Stir Fry]

If you can catch a couple, use them with some Roman and it make wonderfull stir fry. I usualy have everything that I need for stir fry but the meat.

[JAK]

In an Old Barn

Tons upon tons the brown-green fragrant hay
O'erbrims the mows beyond the time-warped eaves,
Up to the rafters where the spider weaves,
Though few flies wander his secluded way.
Through a high chink one lonely golden ray,
Wherein the dust is dancing, slants unstirred.
In the dry hush some rustlings light are heard,
Of winter-hidden mice at furtive play.

Far down, the cattle in their shadowed stalls,
Nose-deep in clover fodder's meadowy scent,
Forget the snows that whelm their pasture streams,
The frost that bites the world beyond their walls.
Warm housed, they dream of summer, well content
In day-long contemplation of their dreams.

Sir Charles G.D.Roberts

[Dogwood]

...Hang your food on the mouse trapezes (they look like this and are in almost every shelter) and don't have your head in the very back corner of the shelter...

Some good advice. I agree with Ben's(smiley face), I mean Scrub Hiker's advice this far. Once you wake up in the morning with mouse feces and urine on your sleeping bag and in your hair or have to contend with mouse eaten holes in your expensive down sleeping bag, backpack, rain jacket, EVent and cuben fiber food sacks and your food is spoiled with mouse feces when the next resupply point is three days away it can change your mind in regard to mice AND rats. The rest of the rodents I don't mind so much because I've been able to successfully foil their advances rather easily. Make sure the mouse trapeeze *has a baffle* or you are not likely to deter a hungry mouse. They can climb walls, trees, strings, cords, wires, do a high wire trapeeze act, and even jump over things or from one tree/branch to another tree/branch. They can easily climb down a cord without a baffle where you've hung a pack or food. I've also seen them squeeze their bodies so flat that they can squeeze their way into astonishingly small crevices and spaces. They are hungry determined amazing circus performers! Watching mice perform their gymastics is as entertaining as watching squirrels finding a way to get at a defended bird feeder.


It just varies.
May not see a mouse, or it might be a circus....

Absolutely. Some AT shelters are more mouse infested than others. I would venture some shelters have a serious mouse issue while at some shelters, IMHO, no issue exists. I guess it's part of ALWAYS wanting to sleep at AT shelters and quite possibly some well used/trodden camping areas on the AT. One reason why I tend to avoid camping at areas where humans congregate is because human behavior can adversely affect typical wildlife behavior. It's also one reason why we should practice Leave No Trace principles.


....Cooper Lodge... ate what I had left of a sandwich as the critters began stirring, gutsy little rodents, no windows, skeevy shelter, decided to pitch my tent and deal with the rain, good decision, 3rd hiker during that Vermont hike who had their gear chewed on during the night, this time a nice big hole in her down sleeping bag.

Sadly, Cooper Lodge, because of the amount of use, AND ABUSE, it experiences from not only hikers but also from those wandering over to it from the nearby ski resorts is dirty, scarred both inside and outside from burns/fires, is rodent infested and isn't the most pristene ecological environment adjacent to the shelter. The surrounding area has been environmentally abused. Not a place I would normally spend the night. I would also definitely treat my water IF I took drinking water from the area and I treat my water about 10% of the time.


...That would be my biggest issue is the ruining of gear. I'm hoping they won't be too big of a problem as they are made out to be.

Obviously, it does happen as so many posters have acknowledged.


All it takes is one mouse doing a burn out on your face to change your opinion on shelters.

That, or observing how much gear gets chewed up by mice might do the trick. Or maybe thinking about the amount of time spent "mouse proofing" your food and gear, and how often the mice manage to defeat all those counter measures, and tear the crap out of gear or screw someone's food up anyway

LOL. Not always so funny when it happens to you though.


When you get to the shelter, just read the register. If there is an active mouse problem, it will usually be mentioned in the register. If no mention of the problem, stay in the shelter. If there is, just tent nearby and still enjoy the amenities there. :)

Sounds like some helpful advice to me! Thanks. I forgot about that. Sniff. Sniff. Mice will travel though!


...I started using an Ursack food bag, mice can't chew into that bag it is worth the money. That all said, if you are starting in January the mice may not be as bad as later in the spring when temps warm up. good luck

Probably right. I like the Ursack idea. You could also hang on a trapeeze, with a baffle, a odor proof WP Opsak with ALL food and scented items including cookware. I sometimes use one in bear country.


Just bring a bottle of bobcat urine and sprinkle it around your bag and on your pack.

Thanks. Good advice. I do something similiar. I spray bug juice in a wide continuous band all around where I sleep. I sleep inside the band(atoll) on the "island". Usually, it's the same bug juice I would apply to my body or clothing. This can work for scorpions, venemous spiders, venemous snakes, cockroaches(the ground can literally come alive in the woods at night with 100's of cockroaches and venemous centipedes in the Hawaiian woods!, it's like an episode of FearFactor), fire ants, mice, etc


Occasionally you will get some damage from rodents. Most of the time you won't. Hang your food/packs. Sleep with your head to the door, away from the walls....I agree, critter worries are overblown. Are problems possible, yeah. Frequent? nope.

Thanks. Good advice!

I do what ChinMusic, Lyle, and others suggest: I hang all my scented and food items, including my cookware, on a trapeeze with a baffle in a Opsak and I hang my opened pack, to let mice rumage around in it without feeling the need to chew holes in it or other gear, on a bear cable or on a hook inside or outside the shelter with my rain cover over it if hung outside. I keep myself clean from food and food odors. I wash my mouth, face, hair, clothing, and anything that might have been contaminated with food and foof scents. I keep a clean camp. I don't drop food. I cook away from where I sleep. I don't normally camp where others tend to congrgeate.


... shelter mice got in my pack and chewed holes in my...rain pants. the rain pants had a hole in the crotch. i patched it with an X made of duct-tape.

So you are the one! I remember seeing you hike with the duct taped X over the crotch. Funny shart KK!

[Astro]

I bring my tent and use it whenever possible. Only exceptions for things like GSMNP (shelter required) and when pouring down rain.

[tds1195]

Thanks for making this thread and all the good responses...I was wondering the same thing!

[Drybones]

Here's a photo of a shelter mouse, the rats are much larger.

19375

[tds1195]

Here's a photo of a shelter mouse, the rats are much larger.

19375

HAHA! That's an awesome picture.