View Full Version : thruhike shelter
larkspur
12-28-2012, 11:22
any suggestions
right now I'm considering either a hammock or a tarp. which might be better? :-?
turtle fast
12-28-2012, 12:23
First question is are you looking for insect relief? If so then a shelter that combines mesh is necessary...if no then a tarp is much more functional. With a tarp, you cave a multitude of shelter configurations depending on the terrain and are not limited to having trees around.
I think the better question is hammock and tarp OR tent. If you choose to use a hammock you are going to need a tarp in addition for weather protection. The two really go hand in hand. My complete hammock/tarp setup weighs 35 oz with bug protection while my flycreek ul1 tent weighs 38 ozs. I would choose the hammock for comfort over the tent any day.*
turtle fast
12-28-2012, 12:35
But a hammock is of no use on a bald, in the desert southwest, or in the tundra, an open field, etc...the key is you need trees. If you are talking being in the Jungles of Guatemala, or Panama...then a hammock is necessary.
BobTheBuilder
12-28-2012, 12:40
When I go out for a week I usually take my hammock. When I go for three months in 2015, I will take my Tarptent. The difference for me is the insulation.
I use a down underquilt for hammock insulation, which is useless for padding when I sleep in a shelter. I gotta have some padding. So when I bring my hammock, I am committed to the hammock every night. No big deal when the hike is 5-7 days long.
For a longer hike, I will bring my thermarest and my tarptent. That way I can sleep in a shelter, which makes it easier to get up and get going in the morning when miles are the priority. I really don't mind sleeping in shelters, but I hike off-season from the thrus, so I usually have them to myself. I might view them differently if I had to share them with 10 people every night.
MDSection12
12-28-2012, 12:50
Hammocks may not be for everyone, so try it out first, but for me sleeping on the ground is for worst case scenarios only. I just sleep much better in a hammock. YMMV.
Slo-go'en
12-28-2012, 12:56
There are pleanty of trees on the AT and you shouldn't be camping on top of a Bald and should aviod open fields as you'll get dewed on. Personally, I prefer a tent, but there are pleanty here who praise hammocks.
You definately need bug protection, so just a tarp is not a good idea. You'll need to add at least a bug bivy and at that point you might as well just get a tent.
The advantage of a hammock is you can set it up in a lot of places where a tent is not possible, like over rocky or uneven ground or with a significant slope to it. This makes camping between shelters some what easier to do.
The disadvantage is a hammock set up is typically a little heavier then a tent and needs extra insulation in the spring and fall when it's cold out. They can also be a bit noisy with the tarp flapping in the wind.
max patch
12-28-2012, 13:04
If YOU don't know whats best for YOU then I'd say use a tent. I don't think showing up at Springer planning on using a hammock or tarp for the first time is a wise choice.
brian039
12-28-2012, 13:11
Between the two I would say a hammock. All those who carried tarps were shelter dwellers.
Hosaphone
12-28-2012, 13:33
You definately need bug protection, so just a tarp is not a good idea. You'll need to add at least a bug bivy and at that point you might as well just get a tent.
Cuben tarp + stakes + lines (Zpacks) = $200, ~11oz
Bug bivy / net tent (Borah Gear or Bearpaw Wilderness)= $65-150, 6-10oz
Big Agnes Fly Creek UL1 = $300, ~2lb
Various single wall tents = $200-250, 20-32oz
Both seem like viable options to me. Price is close enough. The tarp+bivy/bugtent combo wins out on weight, though by how much depends on whether you are satisfied with a simple bug bivy or want a full net tent. Easier to find a spot to pitch a tarp than a tent in a dense forest. On the other hand, if the bugs are bad, you typically have more bug-free space in a tent.
I think the biggest argument for a tarp+bivy/bugnet on the AT is that if you're a shelter person, you gain the versatility of being able to use your bug protection in the shelters (or for cowboy camping).
However, you can get a bug bivy that weighs 6oz from Borah for $65, so it wouldn't be that unreasonable to simply carry a tent AND bug bivy if you're a shelter person...
If you're starting your AT thru-hike at Springer Mountain I would venture to say that oh, about Tray Mountain, GA you're going to be saying to yourself, "Why didn't I bring the absolute lightest shelter available?".
Most (but not all) AT thru-hikers stay in shelters because, for one reason, it provides the quickest time out in the morning when it's raining. It'll be raining a little on your AT thru-hike (I'm cracking myself up here). Because of that, the shelter you're carrying in your backpack in the beginning of your AT thru-hike probably won't make that much of a difference as long as it's as light as possible.
Up north, after you've acclimated to Trail Life, you may choose voluntarily to be camping alongside the Trail quite a bit of the time (rather than staying in a shelter) and you'll have become accustomed to starting the day in the rain and getting your tarp back into your backpack while it's raining.
I did my northbound AT thru-hike with an ultralight one-person tent (about 2 lbs carry weight) and that was great. If I was to do another northbound AT thru-hike I would start with a tarp and carry a tarp the entire way to Katahdin (I saw "the light" on using a tarp when I hiked the PCT).
Keep in mind that most AT northbound thru-hikers are sending boatloads of "stuff" home from their backpack before they leave Georgia. If you can start out with a pack that doesn't need to have as much stuff sent home, you'll be way ahead of the crowd and way ahead from an expense standpoint (buying gear along the Trail is outrageously expensive versus buying it from home prior to the start of your AT thru-hike).
Then again, people have carried a 50lb backpack all the way to Katahdin. Wouldn't be my choice but people have done it.
Datto
My former setup for section hikes was a poncho tarp and bivy, which worked well under most circumstances. Spent a few miserable nights in high winds and thunderstorms and switched to a Tarptent Notch, without much weight penalty. I love this tent and it has performed very well. The inner tent of the Notch is removable and I've used it inside shelters as a bugnet.
If you're starting your Thru in the crowd, then I would definitely have a shelter with you. Hearing stories of cramming 30+ people in a 8-person shelter sound miserable to me!!!
Slo-go'en
12-28-2012, 21:47
Most (but not all) AT thru-hikers stay in shelters because, for one reason, it provides the quickest time out in the morning when it's raining. It'll be raining a little on your AT thru-hike (I'm cracking myself up here). Because of that, the shelter you're carrying in your backpack in the beginning of your AT thru-hike probably won't make that much of a difference as long as it's as light as possible.
But it's early on in the hike when the shelters are overflowing that you will be forced to camp outside much of the time. When it's raining is when they fill up the fastest and sometimes don't even empty out from the day before. Later on when the crowd thins out, scoring shelter space is a little easier, but still can't be counted on. Camp groups have a way of showing up at the worst time.
So yea, it pays to have a light, but functional personal shelter. You may not need it all the time, but when you need it, you need it.
Call me old fashioned but I like tenting - - I like to avoid the snoring and people stepping on my stuff in shelters - - I also like the freedom of having my own little space to sit and read and do little chores under cover. I've even tried some hammock hanging - maybe not for me - - These are two tents that I own and like - - they are pretty light and would make good thru-hiking candidates - - you could probably get either used on e-bay if you look a little bit.
MSR Carbon Reflex - - Basically this is a Solo Hubba with a carbon pole - - it's not free standing but can be made quasi-free standing with a little cord. I've hiked a lot with it - it is tough, dry, reliable, and bug free. It's a hassle to set up actually in a rain and not get the floor wet - - when I've done this, I have to take a few minutes standing out in the rain and pack-towel off the floor after the rain fly is on. I also disagree a little with the guy in this video - - I regularly put my pack inside at the foot end of my pad and slide my feet next to it without a problem at all (or use my pack as a backrest to read). I've camped in this tent in big rainstorms and even in pretty good snow - - 6" to 1' and had no problems at all. I use a piece of Tyvek housewrap (the heavier one) as a ground-sheet.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhm2R8S3YQY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhm2R8S3YQY)
The 6 Moons Lunar Solo is an even lighter tent (it's under 2 pounds) and I use the same piece of tyvek vs their footprint. It is actually easier to set up especially in the rain but it is a little less durable and a little more finicky in long wet periods - - it isn't leaky but you have to be very careful with your site selection and very detailed with your pitch. I wouldn't use in anything but the lightest winter conditions (maybe one inch of unexpected snow). It is very light and very easy to pitch.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k2IRiSdezU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k2IRiSdezU)
But it's early on in the hike when the shelters are overflowing that you will be forced to camp outside much of the time.
Yeah, you would think people would come up to a shelter, see the shelter is somewhere between relatively full and overflowing and then choose to tent/tarp down a ways from the shelter.
But that's not what I'd observed on my thru-hike during the first 135 miles north from Springer Mountain. Pretty much everyone went to the shelter regardless of how full the shelter was -- this because they were soaked, thought they could get dry in the shelters and wanted the company of other hikers for the evening. Most figured out pretty quickly that they could get out of the shelter, even a shelter that had been full overnight, much quicker in the morning than if they'd tented overnight. At least in the beginning anyhow.
I imagine there were quite a few people, thru-hikers included, who had never actually stayed overnight in the shelter they were carrying in their backpack before they'd arrived on the Trail (I'm assessing this from the sheer number of people who didn't know how to use their stove). The noise in the shelters at night could be really loud too and that, later on, caused hikers to figure out the particulars of their tent/tarp and become comfortable using it at night.
As the "crowd" moved further north and the numbers dwindled I'd see more hikers park their tent wherever off the side of the Trail at night -- they were trying to get in more miles for the day or they just wanted to continue the silence they'd become accustomed to experience during the daytime.
People were buying new carrying shelters (tents/tarps) right and left in the beginning of their thru-hikes in order to dump weight once they figured out how much all their stuff weighed when carrying it up the side of a mountain.
I really liked the tent that I carried from Springer to Katahdin but I have to admit the options today (tents/tarps) to save pack weight without much sacrifice are the better option for most thru-hikers.
Datto
Also, I did see a few instances of hikers "claiming territory" inside the shelter for whatever reason during the first few hundred miles (needing more personal space, saving multiple places for other friends who hadn't yet arrived, needing more real estate to dry out their belongings).
You can imagine how many microseconds of time their claim lasted, particularly as thru-hikers arrived at the shelter and just moved stuff out of their excess claim territory and bedded down for the night. I'd observed more than one instance where the person who had claimed territory in a shelter had their stuff tossed end-over-end out past the fire pit for them to conveniently retrieve on their way out. I'm not saying that was the correct approach but it certainly was a novel and immediate solution to the problem of claiming shelter territory.
I also saw instances where hikers had voluntarily chosen not to carry a shelter of any type in their backpack with the expectation they could claim any spot they'd wanted in a shelter because they were thru-hikers. Heh, you can imagine how long that situation lasted -- I don't think any of those people made it to the Smokies before choosing to go home.
Datto
Yeah, you would think people would come up to a shelter, see the shelter is somewhere between relatively full and overflowing and then choose to tent/tarp down a ways from the shelter.
But that's not what I'd observed on my thru-hike during the first 135 miles north from Springer Mountain. Pretty much everyone went to the shelter regardless of how full the shelter was -- this because they were soaked, thought they could get dry in the shelters and wanted the company of other hikers for the evening. Most figured out pretty quickly that they could get out of the shelter, even a shelter that had been full overnight, much quicker in the morning than if they'd tented overnight. At least in the beginning anyhow.
I imagine there were quite a few people, thru-hikers included, who had never actually stayed overnight in the shelter they were carrying in their backpack before they'd arrived on the Trail (I'm assessing this from the sheer number of people who didn't know how to use their stove). The noise in the shelters at night could be really loud too and that, later on, caused hikers to figure out the particulars of their tent/tarp and become comfortable using it at night.
As the "crowd" moved further north and the numbers dwindled I'd see more hikers park their tent wherever off the side of the Trail at night -- they were trying to get in more miles for the day or they just wanted to continue the silence they'd become accustomed to experience during the daytime.
People were buying new carrying shelters (tents/tarps) right and left in the beginning of their thru-hikes in order to dump weight once they figured out how much all their stuff weighed when carrying it up the side of a mountain.
I really liked the tent that I carried from Springer to Katahdin but I have to admit the options today (tents/tarps) to save pack weight without much sacrifice are the better option for most thru-hikers.
Datto
Truthfully, in the first 200 miles or so, most "thru-hikers" are nearly total newbies - - many have not actually practices setting up their rig in the rain. Early this year, I picked an aspiring thru-hiker up at the train station and then spent a few days hiking the GA section - - he wanted to start slow so I hiked with him for a day and then rolled on ahead passing a bunch of aspirants in shelters (and a few in tents) - - it was cool and raining pretty good until I got to Neels and I saw all sorts of misery in the shelters - -Gooch Mountain Shelter was absolutely packed with wet people and wet gear - - the whole place stunk with the smell of wet feet, hanging wet clothing (and pot smoke).
Unless it's winter or I just happen upon a clean, empty shelter, I always find it more comfortable, dryer, and warmer to be in my tent - property and tightly pitched on a well selected site.
Aspiring thru-hikers would really do well to (at least) spend a few weekends (or better still, a couple of weeks) backpacking and practicing setting up camp especially in the rain - - if you are nimble, fast, and efficient, you will nearly always be dry and comfortable. If you do decide to tent near a shelter, after you are all set-up, fed, and have your chores done, you can go socialize at the shelter for a bit but it sure is nice to have the option to peace out down the trail to your private dwelling.
I think it is always nice to make tenting your default plan - - if you get to a shelter and it's not crowded (let's say you are ahead of the pack quite a bit) and you know the other folks in the shelter (or they seem pretty chill), sheltering might be an acceptable diversion for that night but once again, I'd say tenting is always best. When I thru-hiked, the shelters were much smaller and you did have to sleep head-toe like sardines if there were others there - - I probably tented about 85% of the time then and would say that tenting somewhere between 60% and 80% of the time now would be a good plan for most.
WILLIAM HAYES
12-29-2012, 22:05
I used a hammock no problem finding trees
For me, a lightweight tent is the way to go.
Rainproof, bug free, light, small to pack...........
When I see / watch hammock hanger's doing their thing it seems a bit heavy and complicated to me.
Sleeping on the ground connects me more with the Earth and is lighter and simpler...........give me a few feet of bare, flat ground and Q is good to go.
I am also a stomach sleeper so that might also impact my bias.
...as for tarps, sound nice, very little protection and in most REALLY nasty storms, good luck!
Bro forget the Hammock and Tarp and get yourself a reliable Tent Good luck and happy hiking.
stranger
12-31-2012, 17:28
These are preference based questions, asking a question like a tarp or hammock is like asking someone else what food YOU will like more, it can't be answered
I would suggest going hiking and trying some things out, I could tell you what I use, I could also tell you my favorite food....but not necessarily helpful.
I will say that there is nothing more amusing and entertaining than watching a inexperienced newby try to set up a hammock or tarp for the first or secondtime, painfully hard to watch. So whatever your choice make sure you practice setting it up 10-12 times in various conditions, including the dark and preferably in the rain.
CrumbSnatcher
12-31-2012, 19:00
Quest Praying Mantis 3 season :-)
If YOU don't know whats best for YOU then I'd say use a tent. I don't think showing up at Springer planning on using a hammock or tarp for the first time is a wise choice.
Larkspur,
Max Patch has great advice for you here, if not for sure go with a tent (preferably light). Now if you have time you might want to try out a tarp or hammock, but make sure you have plenty of time and experience with it before committing to it on a long distance hike.