Why the extreme lack of racial diversity in the hiking community?

[Walter Ellis]

During the course of many hikes over the years I noticed there was very few people of color and those that I did encounter were usually foreign tourists or children in scout troops.Now I do not believe nor am I insinuating that the hiking community is racist because even if primarily white it is very diverse group of individuals each with our own style. I believe this has more to do with a lack of interest within the minority community. Why does such a lack of interest exist? What can we do as a hikng community to encourage more interest from minorities?

[Hairbear]

i have thought of this myself.i feel that it many minorities have been kept down,so they do not seek minimalistic entertainment to prove self worth.they see it as luxury is better for expression of self.its hard for people who have been forced to do without to find pleasure in not having.

[Mrs Baggins]

In my group of 307 outdoors ladies, I probably have about 12 that are either Asian, Latino, or African. That is sad but I don't have an explanation for it. One black lady told me that her mom was a girl scout troop leader but that they never did anything in the outdoors because it was Chicago and her mom was simply not going to do any of that. I've got her buying backpacking gear now and eagerly awaiting her first night sleeping outdoors. She absolutely loves to hike but her mom is in the background warning her about the dangers of "lions and bears" on the trail!

[rickb]

[QUOTE= What can we do as a hikng community to encourage more interest from minorities?[/QUOTE]

Walter,

To my way of thinking a better question than asking what "we as a community can do", would be to ask what each of us as an individual can do.

Then look for an answer that is personally actionable, rather than one that is simply hopeful.

I am not sure what the answer that works best for you will be, but I think each of us can do a great deal more than we may think possibe. Whether by yourself or in the context of working with or otherwise supporting groups like the Scouts or the AMC's youth opportuity programs. Here is a link to that one:

http://www.outdoors.org/recreation/yop/

Its a good topic for discussion, of course. As a new participant to this forum, you might also look to the archives for ideas as well.

Rick B

[JAK]

Good question, but I think the bigger question is why more people of all ages, ethnic origins, genders, whatever, don't spend more time in the outdoors. I think most people are drawn more to people than away from people. Perhaps racial minorities feel that stronger. Not sure. Very few people hike in general though. Even if you combine all human powered trail activities, hiking, mountain biking, cross-country skiing, snowshoeiing, canoeing, paddling, white water rafting, I think it is still a relative minority of people however you sort and divide them. But even though it is somewhat of an anti-social activity, in the sense of getting away from society, it is still largely influenced by social factors, which is why more people are drawn to more popular trails and follow certain marketing or fashion trends even when supposedly seeking solitude or whatever. It has strong social influences, so you would tend to see clusters I think, in terms of certain age groups or income groups or ethnic groups or whatever. It is not entirely random is what I am saying, there are bound to be strong correlations with other social groupings, but not neccessarily any real cause or effect.

Or I could say something stupid like they are too busy kicking our ass in sports.

[swjohnsey]

I was thinkin' the same thing about NBA basketball.

[coach lou]

I believe that Hairbear & Mrs Baggins both make sense. Certainly we white europeans grew up with a pioneering spirit, 'it's what our ancestors did'. Built on by youth groups that taught this and had opportunity, as in Mrs. Baggins example.

[Capt Nat]

What are you people, nuts??? We don't want any diversity of any kind on the trail. We don't want people who do or don't carry hiking poles. We don't want people who love or hate dogs. We don't want people who hang or don't hang bear bags. You want diversity? Carry a gun and drink unfiltered water!

[swjohnsey]

O.K. I drink unfiltered water but it is too much trouble to carry a gun.

[hikerboy57]

a large part of it is simply financial.growing up in urban rather than suburban or rural settings with less exposure to the outdoors.many white kids went to summer camps. some parents had summer homes in the mtns,cars to be able to drive away from the cities,and other ways to stimulate much closer at hand.
obviously it costs nothing to take a walk in the woods, but first you need to get to the woods.i think minorities generally are less exposed to the natural world and develop different interests when theyre young.
as far as sports, you still dont see very many non-whites in tennis, golf for the same reasons.

[JAK]

Well what about Native Americans then? They ventured further out of Africa than Europeans. You don't see alot of them hiking, at least not on the mainstream trails. Humans are social animals and they tend to cluster into social groups. So you tend to see more African Americans in some sports, like Football, and fewer in others, like Hockey. You can look at specific reasons like barriers and breakthroughs, but mostly its because we tend to cluster.

[trapper]

To my way of thinking a better question than asking what "we as a community can do", would be to ask what each of us as an individual can do.*quote

do you think if colored people had a sport/activity that was not played or attended by white people they would try or even care that whites were not there? i think white people are so scared be called racist that some try to hard.....

[hikerboy57]

To my way of thinking a better question than asking what "we as a community can do", would be to ask what each of us as an individual can do.*quote

do you think if colored people had a sport/activity that was not played or attended by white people they would try or even care that whites were not there? i think white people are so scared be called racist that some try to hard.....
is there a problem with helping to create a more inclusive environment and community? for both whites and "coloreds"?

[MuddyWaters]

Leisure pursuit choices are dependent on your values, lifestyle, disposeable income, free time, location, upbringing, and especially peer group.

We all choose how to spend limited free time, doing what we have grown to prefer.

The same could be said for alpine skiing, rock climbing, offshore fishing, rodeo, shooting sports, swimming, recreational running, hunting, many other sports, nascar,.....

We have a large mexican immigtant population near our area now. They get together on Sunday and the men play soccer, a large all-latino soccer league. They spend their free timebonding this way and maintaining a sense of latino community. Different strokes for different folks.

[JAK]

I like to burn things for the pure joy of it.

[JAK]

Not because I am white.

[coach lou]

JAK, I have to respecfully disagree with your examples. First, I assume you are from New Brunswick Canada? How many football teams do you have, how many hockey rinks. Here in Connecticut your examples are totally based on opportunity. Football....big open field, sneakers, and a ball. Hockey, ponds are not consistant, we need rinks, travel to other rinks......$$$$$$$ equipment. The native americans were already here in the wilderness, Europeans came here and spread. I have read extensively about our Native Americans, and except for Jacksa Chula Harjos obsession to eradicate the Cherokees, Shawnees and other tribes, many Natives wanted to join the progress that the Europeans brought.

[hikerboy57]

long beach is a racially diverse community with a huge surfing population-mostly white, with some hispanics and orientals, almost no blacks. and in the 30 years ive lived here, ive only surfed 3 times. i prefer mountains.most of my friends have never gone hiking.dont understand"what is it you do out there?"

[Capt Nat]

The fewer people on the trail, the happier I am. Instead of luring black folks on the trail, lets strive for fewer and fewer white folks till we achieve racial equality on the Appalachian Trail... Introverts unite!!! Separately...

[coach lou]

long beach is a racially diverse community with a huge surfing population-mostly white, with some hispanics and orientals, almost no blacks. and in the 30 years ive lived here, ive only surfed 3 times. i prefer mountains.most of my friends have never gone hiking.dont understand"what is it you do out there?"

.............but, what about the bugs, and bears........isn't there dirt on the ground?

[nitewalker]

i had to burn an old tatered american flag in the fire last nite. i made sure to fold it properly and then i laid it on the fire. my veteran friend said a few words as it burned and then we all rang in the new year.....

[nitewalker]

here is another example. i have been here at my campground since 1975 and all those years combined i can count on two hands the amount of negros that have camped here. we have had more mexicans and asians camp here over the years.. i cant explain it!!! it is what it is...lets not get into hockey,swiming or skiing......

[hikerboy57]

which speaking of diversity. almost every time i hike in harriman state park, i will come across asians. many more asians than whites as a matter of fact.

[Lone Wolf]

what a stupid subject. why so few whitey rappers? :rolleyes:

[hikerboy57]

what a stupid subject. why so few whitey rappers? :rolleyes:because we cant.

[10-K]

Do you think a lot of African Americans don't hike the AT in the south because it goes through rural (aka rednecky) section?

[coach lou]

Do you think a lot of African Americans don't hike the AT in the south because it goes through rural (aka rednecky) section?

That doesn't apply up here in Yankeeville.

[hikerboy57]

Do you think a lot of African Americans don't hike the AT in the south because it goes through rural (aka rednecky) section?
even in the north african americans on the trail are a rarity.even at bear mountain theyll come to use the pool, play soccor, shoot hoops, but nobody hiking the hundreds of miles of trails surrounding them. i have never seen a black family hiking together.there are camps however in the summer thatll come up and go on short day hikes.

[Walter Ellis]

here is another example. i have been here at my campground since 1975 and all those years combined i can count on two hands the amount of negros that have camped here.
"Negro" excuse me in this modern enlightened age you still refer to us as negroes?

[coach lou]

"Negro" excuse me in this modern enlightened age you still refer to us as negroes?


Well Walter...what is your take on your question?

[10-K]

Right.. I get that.

I don't think there is A reason you don't see more blacks hiking - there are many reasons.

1. Fear (Hiking in the south)
2. Cultural (there is no tradition to pass down)
3. Cost
4. Transportation issues (urban dwellers with no auto)

There are probably more....

[Papa D]

a large part of it is simply financial.growing up in urban rather than suburban or rural settings with less exposure to the outdoors.many white kids went to summer camps. some parents had summer homes in the mtns,cars to be able to drive away from the cities,and other ways to stimulate much closer at hand.
obviously it costs nothing to take a walk in the woods, but first you need to get to the woods.i think minorities generally are less exposed to the natural world and develop different interests when theyre young.
as far as sports, you still dont see very many non-whites in tennis, golf for the same reasons.

Thanks H.B. This is the correct answer - - basically, minority youth has very few role models in our realm. When I do see minority kids in the woods, they are invariably being dragged through the woods, ill equipped by leaders of some "inner city youth program" or "hoods in the woods program" - - these poor kids end up being blistered, cold, wet, and unimpressed and rarely return.

[SouthMark]

10k, I met two black couples hiking the Pinhoti here in Redneckyville a couple of years ago. Both the men carried two packs, one on the front, not Aarns but full packs. They cooked full meals for dinner and shared. Really nice folks.

[10-K]

10k, I met two black couples hiking the Pinhoti here in Redneckyville a couple of years ago. Both the men carried two packs, one on the front, not Aarns but full packs. They cooked full meals for dinner and shared. Really nice folks.

Dale, I didn't mean to paint the entire south as a dangerous place - some of the best people in the world live south of the Mason Dixon line.

But, there are pockets of the south - like Unicoi County, TN where I live, that have zero black families because of historical racial violence. It's not that Unicoi County is a dangerous place in 2012 - it just has a bad reputation from a bygone era that keeps blacks from moving here now.

That is a super-simplistic explanation - I'm not a sociologist.

[herman2feathers]

"hoods in the woods program" :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[JAK]

It would be interesting if Native Americans started a "take back the trails and streams" movement. There are so few hikers and paddlers in many parts they could easily be the majority on many trails and rivers. It would be interesting to see what the reaction would be.

[Maddoxsjohnston]

One of my black co-workers thinks I'm crazy when I tell her I'm going backpacking. I think the major issue about the lack of diversity is that no other black people hike. Humans are naturally drawn to groups. It would be like a white male drinking Hennessy.

[herman2feathers]

"Negro" excuse me in this modern enlightened age you still refer to us as negroes?
This subject is about to take a nasty turn.

[Sarcasm the elf]

I would say that the "nature deficit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nature_deficit_disorder)" is the main thing that keeps people of all races out of the woods. It takes a lot of exposure to the outdoors before a person is comfortable on the own in the wilderness and most of this exposure happens during childhood. People that live in more urban areas are less likely to have sufficient exposure to the natural world to grow an appreciation for it or to see value in outdoor recreation. As others have pointed out, the same lack of diversity can be seen at the majority of outdoor summer camps in the country, though I don't know if it's a lack of access or a lack interest by the parents and children.

Then again part of it could just be that minorities don't have an interest in the thought of a hobby that includes hanging out each night with a bunch if smelly, entitled, unemployed, white suburban recent college grads for six months. (seriously, I'm not writing this as a joke)

[Tipi Walter]

I just got back from a 22 day trip and for the last 17 days didn't see a single backpacker of whatever color. The soft white bodies of my own kind are sitting at home suckling on the indoor thermostat.

[coach lou]

"Negro" excuse me in this modern enlightened age you still refer to us as negroes?

Walter, you are new here and you started with a great question. But now many of us want to hear your take, I for one can not make another comment until we hear how you think.....oh yea,:welcome

[hikerboy57]

I just got back from a 22 day trip and for the last 17 days didn't see a single backpacker of whatever color. The soft white bodies of my own kind are sitting at home suckling on the indoor thermostat.
watching basketball

[Tipi Walter]

watching basketball

BTW, it looks like I'll be missing the Alabama/Oregon game sob. At least I can listen to it on my radio.

[SouthMark]

Thomas, I did not intend to sound negative about your post. I totally agree about the reputation of the South. I just thought it was a story with a nice contrast to the subject at hand. I have to admit that those are the only African Americans that I have seen while hiking. I do believe that it is in large part a cultural thing.

Have a great Pinhoti hike and keep your eyes open, this ole redneck :-) just may see you along the way.

[Maddoxsjohnston]

BTW, it looks like I'll be missing the Alabama/Oregon game sob. At least I can listen to it on my radio.

I assume you mean bama/Notre Dame

[Tipi Walter]

I assume you mean bama/Notre Dame

My God I'm so out of it and it's not a good start to 2013.

[Pedaling Fool]

It's a moot point. All humans are headed for space, soon we'll be the "aliens" floating over some town.

[herman2feathers]

.............but, what about the bugs, and bears........isn't there dirt on the ground?
So true that about sums it up.

[Walter Ellis]

Well Walter...what is your take on your question?
I the term "negro" is demeaning and we prefer to be called African Americans.

[Papa D]

There is one more idea that has just come to me that might merit consideration:

when a great number of us go backpacking, we bring ourselves down - we go down to the very basics (walking on our feet, eating food we carry, digging a hole to poop in, drinking water from a stream) - - these things are celebratory to "us" (meaning non-minorities) because many of us come from backgrounds where we take things like transportation, food, clothing, nice clean heated bathrooms, hot showers, running water, etc. as an completely granted to us).

Many minorities come from a baseline background of constantly having to achieve what "we" already have so they would tend not to strive to bring themselves down but rather to bring themselves up. This is perhaps why so many minorities would prefer to hang out at the mall (for example) and align themselves with things that are the traditional hallmarks of the privileged majority - - whereas "we" are more comfortable in shunning material comforts to bring ourselves the other direction. Just a thought .....

[Lone Wolf]

I the term "negro" is demeaning and we prefer to be called African Americans.

did you live in africa at one time? were you born here?

[Tuckahoe]

I'll just leave this here...


http://funnyordie.com/m/39ge

[coach lou]

I the term "negro" is demeaning and we prefer to be called African Americans.

Your original post question Walter....

[Papa D]

I the term "negro" is demeaning and we prefer to be called African Americans.

yes - - not sure why he used that term - - it isn't at all helpful to this conversation

[Sarcasm the elf]

I'll just leave this here...


http://funnyordie.com/m/39ge

Okay, that was brilliant.

[Pedaling Fool]

We're all African Americans -- my great great great.... daddy was black or Negro, whatever you like :D

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/06/0624_050624_spencerwells.html


BTW, this is really a silly issue when you put it in the context of the bigger picture.

[JAK]

If I recall correctly, there was a major movement by African Americans back in the sixties whose ultimate goal was to be very well represented in the hiking community.

The original "Eleven Point Program" from October, 1966 was as follows:

1. We want freedom. We want power to determine the destiny of our black Community.
We believe that black people will not be free until we are able to determine our destiny.

2. We want full employment for our people.
We believe that the federal government is responsible and obligated to give every man employment or a guaranteed income. We believe that if the white American businessmen will not give full employment, then the means of production should be taken from the businessmen and placed in the community so that the people of the community can organize and employ all of its people and give a high standard of living.

3. We want an end to the robbery by the white man of our black Community.
We believe that this racist government has robbed us and now we are demanding the overdue debt of forty acres and two mules. Forty acres and two mules was promised 100 years ago as restitution for slave labor and mass murder of black people. We will accept the payment as currency which will be distributed to our many communities. The Germans are now aiding the Jews in Israel for the genocide of the Jewish people. The Germans murdered six million Jews. The American racist has taken part in the slaughter of over 50 million black people; therefore, we feel that this is a modest demand that we make.

4. We want decent housing, fit for shelter of human beings.
We believe that if the white landlords will not give decent housing to our black community, then the housing and the land should be made into cooperatives so that our community, with government aid, can build and make decent housing for its people.

5. We want education for our people that exposes the true nature of this decadent American society. We want education that teaches us our true history and our role in the present-day society.
We believe in an educational system that will give to our people a knowledge of self. If a man does not have knowledge of himself and his position in society and the world, then he has little chance to relate to anything else.

6. We want all black men to be exempt from military service.
We believe that black people should not be forced to fight in the military service to defend a racist government that does not protect us. We will not fight and kill other people of color in the world who, like black people, are being victimized by the white racist government of America. We will protect ourselves from the force and violence of the racist police and the racist military, by whatever means necessary.

7. We want an immediate end to POLICE BRUTALITY and MURDER of black people.
We believe we can end police brutality in our black community by organizing black self-defense groups that are dedicated to defending our black community from racist police oppression and brutality. The Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States gives a right to bear arms. We therefore believe that all black people should arm themselves for self defense.

8. We want freedom for all black men held in federal, state, county and city prisons and jails.
We believe that all black people should be released from the many jails and prisons because they have not received a fair and impartial trial.

9. We want all black people when brought to trial to be tried in court by a jury of their peer group or people from their black communities, as defined by the Constitution of the United States.
We believe that the courts should follow the United States Constitution so that black people will receive fair trials. The 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution gives a man a right to be tried by his peer group. A peer is a person from a similar economic, social, religious, geographical, environmental, historical and racial background. To do this the court will be forced to select a jury from the black community from which the black defendant came. We have been, and are being tried by all-white juries that have no understanding of the "average reasoning man" of the black community.

10. We want land, bread, housing, education, clothing, justice and peace. And as our major political objective, a United Nations-supervised plebiscite to be held throughout the black colony in which only black colonial subjects will be allowed to participate for the purpose of determining the will of black people as to their national destiny.
When in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume, among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That, to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that, whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly, all experience hath shown, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But, when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariable the same object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.

11. We want to take 5-7 months off work and maybe not have a job when we return home so we can Hike from Springer Mountain in Georgia to Mount Katahdin in Maine, where along the way we can be under extreme scrutiny by various local and online communities for what we buy, what we wear, what we eat, how much we spend, how much we don`t spend, and how grateful or ungrateful we are for being part of the circus parade and shakedown.

[Papa D]

Okay, that was brilliant.

this is pretty funny

[HikerMom58]

Okay, that was brilliant.

Yes, yes it was ....

Without words we've defined the sterotype sooo what do we do about it? Anything? We need to continue with this convo.

Give us insight- Walter.

[Sarcasm the elf]

BTW, this is really a silly issue when you put it in the context of the bigger picture.


Why is it a silly issue? I think it's extremely important to get more people involved in outdoor recreation. The Opening Poster pointed out the obvious fact that hiking isn't very popular among minorities and asked for our thoughts.

That's a lot less silly than the majority of the threads active on this board at the moment.

[hikerboy57]

Okay, that was brilliant.
yes brilliant

[Papa D]

Why is it a silly issue? I think it's extremely important to get more people involved in outdoor recreation. The Opening Poster pointed out the obvious fact that hiking isn't very popular among minorities and asked for our thoughts.

That's a lot less silly than the majority of the threads active on this board at the moment.


StE, I think that he means that the terms (i.e. african american, black, latino, etc.) are off topic relative to the OP's post - - at least, that's what I think he meant....

[Furlough]

During the course of many hikes over the years I noticed there was very few people of color and those that I did encounter were usually foreign tourists or children in scout troops.Now I do not believe nor am I insinuating that the hiking community is racist because even if primarily white it is very diverse group of individuals each with our own style. I believe this has more to do with a lack of interest within the minority community. Why does such a lack of interest exist? What can we do as a hikng community to encourage more interest from minorities?

It is all about personal choice. With backpacking and hiking you either do it or you don't.

Furlough

[Papa D]

It is all about personal choice. With backpacking and hiking you either do it or you don't.

Furlough

well, sure - - but the OP's question was presumably why minorities don't tend to choose this lifestyle.

[prain4u]

Right.. I get that.

I don't think there is A reason you don't see more blacks hiking - there are many reasons.

1. Fear (Hiking in the south)
2. Cultural (there is no tradition to pass down)
3. Cost
4. Transportation issues (urban dwellers with no auto)

There are probably more....


I agree with your observations. Permit me to add some more items and expand upon your list...

---Many campers and hikers receive their early outdoor experiences in groups such as the Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts. These groups (historically) have not been racially/ethnically diverse.

--Until the past 2-3 decades, it was extremely uncommon to see African-Americans (or other "minorities") working at jobs that had the necessary income and time-off to facilitate camping and hiking trips (and the purchase of outdoor gear). Although things have improved, this still remains the case today---minority groups frequently have lower incomes and less vacation time.

--It wasn't (and isn't) just in the South where persons of color have had (and continue to have) a fear for their safety when walking alone in remote areas. Racial bigotry and hatred have been (and continue to be) very real. The "North" can often be as "unfriendly" of an environment as "the South".

--In general, the areas of the U.S. where hiking trails are abundant frequently have a very low non-Caucasian population. Thus, members of racial / ethnic minority groups often have to spend more time and more money just to get to trails.

[Furlough]

well, sure - - but the OP's question was presumably why minorities don't tend to choose this lifestyle.

Papa D - Not being argumentive here, just sharing my thoughts. End state questions from the OP were Why does such a lack of interest exist? What can we do as a hikng community to encourage more interest from minorities?

I do not like NASCAR or any form of auto racing for that matter. NASCAR is widely promoted, I know lots of folks who love it. I do not, personal choice.
ATC, local backpacking/hiking clubs, retail chains like REI do a lot to promote backpacking/hiking activities. But, if you already have no inclination toward backpacking/hiking and noone from any of your circles of influence are into backpacking/hiking, chances are you won't be either. Nor will you likely go out looking for backpacking/hiking assests (internet, or otherwise). You will stick to areas that you want to spend your limited time and energies doing.

Furlough

[Mrs Baggins]

We were in South America in 2006, and doing a 15 mile day hike from our campground in Argentina up to Fitzroy Glacier and back. On the way back a group of backpackers went by us going the other way. I watched them go by and then stopped dead...realized I'd just seen a black lady in the group and that I had not seen one single black person in the entire 3 weeks that we were in Chile and Argentina. Not. One. Up to that moment I hadn't given it a thought. I don't know if she was from the US..no idea where she was from. The group was speaking English, I do remember that, but don't remember if it was accented outside of the US.

[Drybones]

What can we do as a hikng community to encourage more interest from minorities?

Just because I enjoy something doesn't mean everyone has to.

[imscotty]

To Walter's original post: Perhaps it would be instructive to consider the minorities who do enjoy camping or backpacking. Most I have seen tend to be either from more affluent and suburban backgrounds or are recent military veterans. I think the posters suggesting that finances, transportation, differences in culture, lack of role models, are all correct. There are certainly more opportunities to be exposed to and grow to love the outdoors in suburban and rural America.

I think the divide is as much an urban, rural divide. I do not see too many white inner city kids out there hiking either. My students have often stated their amazement that I would willingly sleep in the woods. They state they would be fearful or just could not go one day without... <insert some modern convenience here>. Unfortunately, these kids are growing up in an environment that does not promote self-reliance, and self-reliance is something all hikers should have.

[Deadeye]

What can we do as a hikng community to encourage more interest from minorities?

How come nobody ever asks what can we do to encourage more interest from white males? I don't give a rat's butt what color you are, if you want to hike, hike.

[Drybones]

I the term "negro" is demeaning and we prefer to be called African Americans.

I'd rather be called simply "American"...are we not all the same in this country...in my mind putting the African in front of American is another form of segregation.

[Mags]

Backpacking, skiing, rock climbing, etc. activities are (mainly) the province of college educated, middle-class folks.

A few years back, the ATC published a study about the typical users of the AT. Invariably, most had a college degree or (esp in the case of younger users) in the process of earning a college degree. Sorry, too lazy to google it, but I know the thread is here on WB.

In my own family, backpacking (and even camping) is just not something you did. After working all week doing physical activity of one of sort or another, why the heck would you willingly spend your weekend doing yet more physical activity w/o a shower and a warm bed? :)

So my own theory is that as people move into so called professional jobs and the education that comes with it, the 'yuppie' outdoor sports seem more attractive for what-ever-reason.

The economic and education background is only one part of the equation, but it is an important part of the lack of diversity in the backcountry IMO.

[Deadeye]

I the term "negro" is demeaning and we prefer to be called African Americans.


Why not just "Americans"? I've never considered myself French/Dutch/English American (and my Mother was first-generation American - my grandparents were immigrants)... just American.

[imscotty]

To the side discussion on how we label minority groups: This is an emotionally charged topic. I have had Caribbean blacks in my classes who take insult at being labeled as 'African American.' They have pride in their unique heritage. Of course, that is the problem with labels; one size does not fit all. I think the polite thing to do is to try to address people in the way they wish to be addressed. Of course when addressing a large group it may be impossible to please everyone. Both sides need to understand that labels have different connotations to different speakers. Lets try to keep our communications thoughtful, and be forgiving of our shortcomings.

[shelterbuilder]

I would be interested to know ATC's official position on the diversity issue, from the standpoint of the "Trails to Every Classroom" program. (LaurieP, here's your chance to jump into this discussion.) From what little I know about the program, ATC is making an effort to reach out to teachers and classrooms all over the place, in an effort to kindle an interst in the outdoors in CHILDREN at an age where they are impressionable. Much of the potential for a response, however, depends upon teachers and educators, and parents...so if the interest isn't in place THERE, well....

Growing up as white, suburbanite kid in NE Pa. in the 60's, in a family where Dad and the uncles all hunted and fished and camped (and yes, where the women largely stayed home and prepared and cooked what the men brought home!), I can't remember a time in my life when I didn't feel comfortable in the woods, so when I went off to college, I naturally gravitated toward the college outing club, which provided opportunites for us to get out in the woods (hiking and backpacking). For the club members who were from urban areas, going out overnight was - sometimes - a bit of a cultural shock. For the rest of us, it was like coming home! (FYI - there were almost no minorities represented in the club, but we also had very few minorities represented on campus, either...imagine that!)

My "gut feeling" is that this whole issue comes down to a cultural thing (like so many other issues): we do and enjoy the things that we do and enjoy because we were introduced to them as kids by our parents or other family members, and learned to feel comfortable with these things at an early, impressionable age.

I'm curious - Walter, how did YOU come to enjoy the outdoors?

[atmilkman]

I'd rather be called simply "American"...are we not all the same in this country...in my mind putting the African in front of American is another form of segregation.
On applications and such when ethinicity is questioned, I check other and proudly fill in Appalachian American.

[max patch]

Ya'll are slow today.

Google the OP's name (Walter Ellis).

Reread his first post.

Coincidence or Troll?

I've made up my mind.

[Drybones]

On applications and such when ethinicity is questioned, I check other and proudly fill in Appalachian American.

Those MS delta folks don't think much of those high and mighty "Appalachian" folk, they just dont understand why you want to hike instead of growing cotton and catfish...you must be converted.

[Drybones]

Ya'll are slow today.

Google the OP's name (Walter Ellis).

Reread his first post.

Coincidence or Troll?

I've made up my mind.

I'm slow every day...you should see me hike.

[coach lou]

Ya'll are slow today.

Google the OP's name (Walter Ellis).

Reread his first post.

Coincidence or Troll?

I've made up my mind.

MAX, I did, on WOOs suggestion......I think we've all been played.

I'm thinking that Walter Ellis burns his trash.

[atmilkman]

Those MS delta folks don't think much of those high and mighty "Appalachian" folk, they just dont understand why you want to hike instead of growing cotton and catfish...you must be converted.
Praise the Lord.

I'm slow every day...you should see me hike.
(LOL)

[Train Wreck]

MAX, I did, on WOOs suggestion......I think we've all been played.

I'm thinking that Walter Ellis burns his trash.

while stirring the pot with hiking poles...

[Papa D]

Papa D - Not being argumentive here, just sharing my thoughts. End state questions from the OP were Why does such a lack of interest exist? What can we do as a hikng community to encourage more interest from minorities?

I do not like NASCAR or any form of auto racing for that matter. NASCAR is widely promoted, I know lots of folks who love it. I do not, personal choice.
ATC, local backpacking/hiking clubs, retail chains like REI do a lot to promote backpacking/hiking activities. But, if you already have no inclination toward backpacking/hiking and noone from any of your circles of influence are into backpacking/hiking, chances are you won't be either. Nor will you likely go out looking for backpacking/hiking assests (internet, or otherwise). You will stick to areas that you want to spend your limited time and energies doing.

Furlough

ok - makes sense to me

[Papa D]

FWIW - I just noticed that Walter Ellis is a new WB member - - you know what's really funny is that you never see Walter and Wannabe together at the same time - - sort of like Clark Kent and Superman - - funny.

[Many Moons]

During the course of many hikes over the years I noticed there was very few people of color and those that I did encounter were usually foreign tourists or children in scout troops.Now I do not believe nor am I insinuating that the hiking community is racist because even if primarily white it is very diverse group of individuals each with our own style. I believe this has more to do with a lack of interest within the minority community. Why does such a lack of interest exist? What can we do as a hikng community to encourage more interest from minorities?
Why would any one of any color want to change anything about the AT? I am new to this great new world and looks like hiking utopia to me, not perfect! Read the history and what others have given for us to have a walk with nature. I would be careful of pushing for any fast change just for the sake of change. You either get it or not matter what color you are. See you all in the spring. Hike On!!!

Miller

[Majortrauma]

The military and in particular Special Forces, is disproportionately represented by minorities and no one really seems to be able to crack the code on this. Anytime someone tries to address this they get punched in the face as the Commandant of the Marine Corps General Mundy did a number of years ago when he merely stated that facts which are that blacks perform horribly in swimming and on Land Navigation and have a real rough time graduating from OCS or TBS. In reaction to the unspoken perception that the Marine Corps was not embracing diversity and in particular black officers the Marine Corps in particular went out of its way to try to recruit more minorities and I think the payback if you want to call it that was negligible. I think it's a cultural thing. I bet there are few inner city black, white, yellow or brown kids who want to hike and if they stay inner city, they never will. One of my ambitions is/was to start a backpacking guide service to get kids who are not associated with scouting, 4H or do not have parents intro this kind of thing and take them out, with their father or mother and let them safely experience the outdoors. If we do not get them out there, we will have lost an entire generation to technology instead of the serenity and wonders we all experience when we are out there with no other distractions.
We can call it "Hoods in the woods." :)

[Many Moons]

During the course of many hikes over the years I noticed there was very few people of color and those that I did encounter were usually foreign tourists or children in scout troops.Now I do not believe nor am I insinuating that the hiking community is racist because even if primarily white it is very diverse group of individuals each with our own style. I believe this has more to do with a lack of interest within the minority community. Why does such a lack of interest exist? What can we do as a hikng community to encourage more interest from minorities?
What about SNAKES? Hike On!!!

Miller

[Praha4]

I've observed the same thing but we don't need any more community organizers working to achieve "racial diversity", we already have one in the White House. I have never yet met one hiker on the AT who expressed any racist views. IMO there's a perception amongst many "city folk" (of all ethnic backgrounds) that the Appalachian mountains and the AT are populated by hillbilliess, hicks, and inbreds, and that would include you AT hikers. Maybe they saw "Deliverance" once too often.

So these "city folk" don't really want to come out to the woods and dirty their $150 Nike Jordan shoes on the trail, they would rather get their physical training on the living room couch in front of their flat screen TVs.




llis;1382665]During the course of many hikes over the years I noticed there was very few people of color and those that I did encounter were usually foreign tourists or children in scout troops.Now I do not believe nor am I insinuating that the hiking community is racist because even if primarily white it is very diverse group of individuals each with our own style. I believe this has more to do with a lack of interest within the minority community. Why does such a lack of interest exist? What can we do as a hikng community to encourage more interest from minorities?[/QUOTE]

[Another Kevin]

If this was a troll attempt, it was a remarkably unsuccessful one. Aside from one mildly incorrect term for persons without a melanin deficiency, it has stirred up remarkably little nastiness.

I've puzzled over the ethnic breakdown of hikers myself - and don't have a good answer. But maybe that's because the race I care about most is the human race. I plead guilty to having an inadequate ration of white guilt. Another example of the cluelessness of this clueless weekender.

[Rocket Jones]

I believe that Walter Ellis is a troll, another manifestation of the one(s) who've been around the last little while.

That said, why is it necessary for the hiking community to embrace minorities? In my experience, anyone on the trail is recognized as a "hiker" and it doesn't much matter what color, creed, age or sex that hiker is. If you reach out to the public in general, that includes minorities who may or may not be interested in the activity (just like anyone else).

[SouthMark]

I believe that Walter Ellis is a serial troll.

[NotYet]

Thanks H.B. This is the correct answer - - basically, minority youth has very few role models in our realm. When I do see minority kids in the woods, they are invariably being dragged through the woods, ill equipped by leaders of some "inner city youth program" or "hoods in the woods program" - - these poor kids end up being blistered, cold, wet, and unimpressed and rarely return.

I worked at a wilderness program with adjudicated teenagers (i.e. "hoods in the woods") for 11 years. Approximately 80% of our students were poor, inner-city African Americans who had had extremely limited experience with anything other than their own neighborhoods and being locked-up. It was a voluntary program, and although our equipment wasn't ultra-light or fancy, it was appropriate and durable (able to take much abuse). The point of the program wasn't to create backpackers or climbers or paddlers or equestrians, though we did all of those activities. The point was to help these youth expand their horizons. They experienced difficult challenges and the pride that comes from succeeding at difficult tasks; they experienced natural consequences and learned how to make better choices; they also learned that they were capable of a lot more than they ever dreamed possible.

There were many magical moments out there with these kids. Expressions such as "I never knew there was anything so beautiful" and "I wish grandma could see this place. It's just so peaceful" are not what you expect to hear from "gangstas". Nor do you expect "gangstas" to want to sit quietly by a powerful waterfall or silently gaze at distant ridges from the top of a mountain, but they often do when given the chance. I cherish the time that I got to spend with these students on the trail and in the woods. Some even expressed an interest in pursuing outdoor activities in their future. All of them expressed excitement at sharing the stories of their adventures with their family and friends back home...maybe this will plant some seeds for the future.

There are many historical, cultural and economic reasons why many minority groups have avoided, feared or not felt included in wilderness pursuits. I hope we do continue to find ways to invite our neighbors and include people of diverse backgrounds to enjoy the wilderness. This will help them know that this gift also belongs to them to enjoy and protect.

[Train Wreck]

I worked at a wilderness program with adjudicated teenagers (i.e. "hoods in the woods") for 11 years. Approximately 80% of our students were poor, inner-city African Americans who had had extremely limited experience with anything other than their own neighborhoods and being locked-up. It was a voluntary program, and although our equipment wasn't ultra-light or fancy, it was appropriate and durable (able to take much abuse). The point of the program wasn't to create backpackers or climbers or paddlers or equestrians, though we did all of those activities. The point was to help these youth expand their horizons. They experienced difficult challenges and the pride that comes from succeeding at difficult tasks; they experienced natural consequences and learned how to make better choices; they also learned that they were capable of a lot more than they ever dreamed possible.

There were many magical moments out there with these kids. Expressions such as "I never knew there was anything so beautiful" and "I wish grandma could see this place. It's just so peaceful" are not what you expect to hear from "gangstas". Nor do you expect "gangstas" to want to sit quietly by a powerful waterfall or silently gaze at distant ridges from the top of a mountain, but they often do when given the chance. I cherish the time that I got to spend with these students on the trail and in the woods. Some even expressed an interest in pursuing outdoor activities in their future. All of them expressed excitement at sharing the stories of their adventures with their family and friends back home...maybe this will plant some seeds for the future.

There are many historical, cultural and economic reasons why many minority groups have avoided, feared or not felt included in wilderness pursuits. I hope we do continue to find ways to invite our neighbors and include people of diverse backgrounds to enjoy the wilderness. This will help them know that this gift also belongs to them to enjoy and protect.

Great post. If the original intent of the OP was trolling, he failed completely after reading this response.

[Walter Ellis]

MAX, I did, on WOOs suggestion......I think we've all been played.

I'm thinking that Walter Ellis burns his trash.

No I do not burn my trash I strongly believe and adamantly practice leave not trace principles as it is our duty to preserve the wonderous beauty of our environment and be generous caretakers of our wilderness areas so our children and grandchildren may enjoy them as we have for generations to come.

[HikerMom58]

If this was a troll attempt, it was a remarkably unsuccessful one. Aside from one mildly incorrect term for persons without a melanin deficiency, it has stirred up remarkably little nastiness.

I've puzzled over the ethnic breakdown of hikers myself - and don't have a good answer. But maybe that's because the race I care about most is the human race. I plead guilty to having an inadequate ration of white guilt. Another example of the cluelessness of this clueless weekender.

I agree... I think you're right...I'm smelling a rat! I think it was a good "test" for WB members. We passed with "almost" flying colors...

What a great way to start off the New Year!! :)

[coach lou]

You can end all this troll talk by giving us your take on your original post. 5 pages, 94 posts and we don't know how YOU feel.

[hikerboy57]

I worked at a wilderness program with adjudicated teenagers (i.e. "hoods in the woods") for 11 years. Approximately 80% of our students were poor, inner-city African Americans who had had extremely limited experience with anything other than their own neighborhoods and being locked-up. It was a voluntary program, and although our equipment wasn't ultra-light or fancy, it was appropriate and durable (able to take much abuse). The point of the program wasn't to create backpackers or climbers or paddlers or equestrians, though we did all of those activities. The point was to help these youth expand their horizons. They experienced difficult challenges and the pride that comes from succeeding at difficult tasks; they experienced natural consequences and learned how to make better choices; they also learned that they were capable of a lot more than they ever dreamed possible.

There were many magical moments out there with these kids. Expressions such as "I never knew there was anything so beautiful" and "I wish grandma could see this place. It's just so peaceful" are not what you expect to hear from "gangstas". Nor do you expect "gangstas" to want to sit quietly by a powerful waterfall or silently gaze at distant ridges from the top of a mountain, but they often do when given the chance. I cherish the time that I got to spend with these students on the trail and in the woods. Some even expressed an interest in pursuing outdoor activities in their future. All of them expressed excitement at sharing the stories of their adventures with their family and friends back home...maybe this will plant some seeds for the future.

There are many historical, cultural and economic reasons why many minority groups have avoided, feared or not felt included in wilderness pursuits. I hope we do continue to find ways to invite our neighbors and include people of diverse backgrounds to enjoy the wilderness. This will help them know that this gift also belongs to them to enjoy and protect.what a wonderful post. about 10 yrs ago i didnt have a car and was taking the bus from brooklyn through far rockaway. the local school had just let out and the bus was filled with kids. a summer thundertorm had just blown through and for a few minutes a beautiful rainbow appeared. they were all talking amongst themselves and never noticed it. so i loudly pointed it out and they all turned silent. most had never seen a rainbow before. actually they had probably seen hundreds, but this was the first time they actually saw it.one even asked me again what it was called. ill never forget that look of wonder on their faces.
priceless

[Papa D]

No I do not burn my trash I strongly believe and adamantly practice leave not trace principles as it is our duty to preserve the wonderous beauty of our environment and be generous caretakers of our wilderness areas so our children and grandchildren may enjoy them as we have for generations to come.

your grammar and diction is better than our previous Troll suspect too. Thanks - - I will take you at your word and will not be suspicious that this is tongue and cheek. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt for now. BUT, most new members don't just jump in and start new threads. Usually, they start by lurking around a bit and reading other threads, then, they respond to threads and spend a little time creating a profile with photos, and background info. You immediately signed up and started something somewhat controversial which is a little weird. You might also be a victim of some Troll sensitive tendencies right now - - we think one has been lurking. He recently posted about burning trash thus the nature of the previous comment which was meant to humorously suggest that you might be him in disguise. Regards.

[Gray Blazer]

To the OP. I'm an American. What are you?

My grandchildren include Americans of African, English, German, Arabic, Mexican, Puerto Rican (which is part of USA), Native American, and Appalachian American descent.

Take your race baiting elsewhere (like a country like Mexico where they hurt illegal aliens).

[SassyWindsor]

Give the US Gov time. They'll figure out a way to force diversity on the trail. Handicapped access will be right in there, paved trails, etc.

[hikerboy57]

Give the US Gov time. They'll figure out a way to force diversity on the trail. Handicapped access will be right in there, paved trails, etc.
yeah this diversity thing is a threat to the american way

[HikerMom58]

what a wonderful post. about 10 yrs ago i didnt have a car and was taking the bus from brooklyn through far rockaway. the local school had just let out and the bus was filled with kids. a summer thundertorm had just blown through and for a few minutes a beautiful rainbow appeared. they were all talking amongst themselves and never noticed it. so i loudly pointed it out and they all turned silent. most had never seen a rainbow before. actually they had probably seen hundreds, but this was the first time they actually saw it.one even asked me again what it was called. ill never forget that look of wonder on their faces.
priceless

What a wonderful opportunity to share! You didn't miss it. ::D

[Sweetspot]

I have been in some sort of sports all my life. And making one a career. I see everyone as a colored person. Some are white in color. There is ample opportunity for anyone to go hiking any where in the world. there are inner city and country programs for kids. There is equipment available for their use. It all comes down to if a person wantS to do it. They will find a way. No matter what color they are.

[SouthMark]

Give the US Gov time. They'll figure out a way to force diversity on the trail. Handicapped access will be right in there, paved trails, etc.

There is already federally mandated handicapped access on the trail. All privies built with federal funds have wheelchair ramps ad per the ADA requirements.

[avalonmorn]

while stirring the pot with hiking poles...

.....while herman2feathers pours fuel on the fire

[NotYet]

I have been in some sort of sports all my life. And making one a career. I see everyone as a colored person. Some are white in color. There is ample opportunity for anyone to go hiking any where in the world. there are inner city and country programs for kids. There is equipment available for their use. It all comes down to if a person wantS to do it. They will find a way. No matter what color they are.

It's difficult to know that you want something if you don't really know that it exists (or even if you do know that it exists but don't really know what it is or how it might relate to you). I think it's wonderful when individuals and/or organizations reach out to provide outdoor experiences to others. You never know how it may impact someone's life when you invite them to participate in an experience that they've never even imagined. Nature is a powerful teacher, but many have no awareness that nature could be a part of their lives.

[herman2feathers]

.....while herman2feathers pours fuel on the fire
How so and in what way? Please explain yourself because your remark has thrown me for a loop.

[Sweetspot]

There is plenty of programs already in place for people of any color to find the outdoors. Its what they chose to do or not do.

[hikerboy57]

There is plenty of programs already in place for people of any color to find the outdoors. Its what they chose to do or not do.youre missing the point. they cant choose to do something they are unaware of.

[Sweetspot]

I a not missing the point. You are not getting it. There is plenty of simulation for a lot of things including the outdoors. The ones that want to go hiking they find a way.

[Sweetspot]

The ones that want to go to college they find a way ,the ones that want to learn to ride a horse they find a way,the ones that want to be a baker they find a way.

[Sweetspot]

And money has nothing to do with it.

[Lone Wolf]

buncha upper class whiteys talkin' about somethin' y'all know nothin' about :rolleyes:

[herman2feathers]

youre missing the point. they cant choose to do something they are unaware of.
So by your logic overweight people are fat because they are unaware of how to exercise & eat properly or that the unemployed are simply unaware of job openings or is that dying cancer patient unaware of a miracle cure?

[hikerboy57]

So by your logic overweight people are fat because they are unaware of how to exercise & eat properly or that the unemployed are simply unaware of job openings or is that dying cancer patient unaware of a miracle cure?
you are stretching my "logic".my "logic"is simply turning someone on to the miracles of nature. why would you have an issue with that.
and if i knew of a miracle cure for a dying cancer patient, are you suggesting i should keep that information from him?

[swjohnsey]

Oprah's takin' care of it.

[4Bears]

Why does anything have to be done by those in the hiking community?? I grew up in the country, we hunted, fished, canoed, hiked and camped, it was part of my heritage. While those in an urban enviroment probably did not do much of those things. If you look close you would see a great disparity in people of color in most outdoor pursuits, hunting is another prime example. In my 60 years I have seen fewer than a dozen people of color canoeing in wilderness situations. Truth is nothing needs to be done, there are NO barriers that have been set up to keep anyone who is able from doing any of these things, it simply a matter of choice, plain and simple. There I contributed my rant for the entertainment of OP troll. IMO

[Sweetspot]

Thank You 4Bears just what I was trying to say. You said it better. And Lone Wolf if you were referring to me as upper white class not knowing what they are talking. I am not upper white class and I have over 30 years working with not only at risk kids but adults to. So you don't know me or what I have done to help all colors of people. And or those of you that don't know the white class is the minority.

[johnnybgood]

The real question goes beyond ethnicity and race as to why more people aren't hiking our nations trails. I do believe that the suppression that kept blacks down for generations does bear creedence in their lack of interest in experiencing the trail.
However ,from my interactions with co-workers,I see many people that are simply uninformed about hiking or even the rudimentary knowledge about our State or National forests and parks.

[NotYet]

I don't think anyone was implying that we need to force diversity on the trail. But I do believe most hikers are willing to share the wilderness with others, and it would benefit us all if more people understood the value of the wilderness. Most children of lower socio-economic groups of any ethnicity living in the inner-cities have no idea of what an experience in the wilderness could be. Expecting someone to want something they know abosultely nothing about makes little sense. The value of the wilderness gets instilled when people who know it to be true share this knowledge and wisdom and hopefully experience with those who don't know it to be true...I see nothing wrong with wanting more people to appreciate nature's gifts.

[coach lou]

Still waiting for some kind of dialogue from the OP on this.

[4Bears]

youre missing the point. they cant choose to do something they are unaware of.

HB while it is true with all of us that we don't know, what we, don't know. It therefore is also true that we don't know what others don't know. Things like experiencing the outdoors/wilderness is now and always should be a personal choice. We humans are a curious species and hence if some experience or something read kicks in a desire then we tend to investigate. From what I have seen in the education systems over the past 25 years or so there has been an efort to spike a curiousity in the out of doors through ecology training within science classes in the grade schools through high schools.
If there are folks out there that are so concerned about this then let them go and put in the sweat equity; give talks at inner-city schools and parks, buy a subscription to a hiking or outdoors magazine (I think these will go mostly unread) for their library. For over a hundred years scouting has been doing their part on this. If person is uninterested in something you are, it may not translate into a lack of knowledge just a lack of interest or desire.
I'm not looking for a fight here as I have respect for your opinion on a variety of subjects on this site, just expressing my own opinion.

[hikerboy57]

The ones that want to go to college they find a way ,the ones that want to learn to ride a horse they find a way,the ones that want to be a baker they find a way.
if theyd never seen a horse why would they want to ride one?
people change careers sometimes simply because they were introduced to a path they wouldnt have considered if someone didnt suggest it.the ones that want to be whores pimps and drug dealers, they find a way too

[Alligator]

Closed for trolling. I suggest you all sit back for a few minutes.