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waywardfool
01-03-2013, 10:11
http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20130103/NEWS/301030010/Baby-bear-boom-predicted?source=nletter-news&nclick_check=1

Please...let's talk about bears, not hunting!

Lone Wolf
01-03-2013, 10:16
http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20130103/NEWS/301030010/Baby-bear-boom-predicted?source=nletter-news&nclick_check=1

Please...let's talk about bears, not hunting!
the article is about hunting bears

Old Hiker
01-03-2013, 10:22
Golly. A mean, ol', nasty bear came and ate up my birdseed and knocked over my trash cans I left outside. I'm gonna complain to the gub'mint.

More subdivisions, more city folk (?)coming out into the mountains, more interactions, more complaints?

C'est la vie.

Papa D
01-03-2013, 10:23
the article is about hunting bears


no, it's not "about" hunting bears. It's about increasing bear populations for multiple reasons including that includes a small percentage drop in bears killed by hunters but it is not ABOUT hunting. An article ABOUT hunting would include things about guns and dogs and trucks and methods of tracking and GPS and places to get chewing tobacco and all sorts of things - - this article is about bear populations.

gizzy bear
01-03-2013, 10:24
http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20130103/NEWS/301030010/Baby-bear-boom-predicted?source=nletter-news&nclick_check=1

Please...let's talk about bears, not hunting!

baby bears are sooo stinkin cute.... as a matter of fact, that pic looks like my last litter....

Papa D
01-03-2013, 10:34
We need a bear box program in GA/NC/TN/VA - steel bear boxes are common on the trail in much of the NE and they are easier for the general hiking public to use as opposed to tree hangs and unsightly and often malfunctioning bear cables - -I spend a fair amount of time camping in wilderness areas, off trail, etc. where you have to hang but the culture around most AT shelters in the South is a lot more lax unfortunately - - some people hang, some hang poorly, some people use the mouse lines, etc. - - I think this is a problem that a big steel bear box would solve - - almost no-one would be too lazy to stash their food in the bear box. I've posted this several times and no-one seems to oppose the idea but I haven't gotten much traction with it either - - not sure why. I've actually thought of just buying a bear box and hauling it with a couple of friends to an un-equipped shelter and putting up a sign in the shelter. The Forest Service wouldn't sanction this but I bet it would be used and I really doubt that they would complain (especially in light of issues in this article).

I have actually seen a mad bear "toss" a bear box but he couldn't open it, was eventually frustrated and went away.

RodentWhisperer
01-03-2013, 10:52
I've never been on the AT (yet), but from what I know of it, bear boxes at the shelters would be a great idea. Expensive in the long haul, I think (permissions, installation, maintenance) but worth it. #my2cents

Pedaling Fool
01-03-2013, 11:04
An article ABOUT hunting would include things about ... and places to get chewing tobacco and all sorts of things - - this article is about bear populations.:-? You seem to be the type of person that likes to sterotype. We all sterotype, but it's not as needed in today's society as it once was in the natural world, since in most cases we're not in a position to safeguard our survival, so in today's world one should take time and evaluate their perceived impressions. And when one does not rationalize their presumptions it's usually because they are harboring some deep seeded hate for a given group. http://www.helium.com/items/229531-understanding-why-people-stereotype

Maybe you should get that looked at :)

Pedaling Fool
01-03-2013, 11:06
The few bear boxes I've seen become garbage containers. I'll continue to keep my food safe in my tent.

Lone Wolf
01-03-2013, 12:07
I've never been on the AT (yet), but from what I know of it, bear boxes at the shelters would be a great idea. Expensive in the long haul, I think (permissions, installation, maintenance) but worth it. #my2cents
lousy idea. hikers will fill it with trash

Papa D
01-03-2013, 12:11
:-? You seem to be the type of person that likes to sterotype. We all sterotype, but it's not as needed in today's society as it once was in the natural world, since in most cases we're not in a position to safeguard our survival, so in today's world one should take time and evaluate their perceived impressions. And when one does not rationalize their presumptions it's usually because they are harboring some deep seeded hate for a given group. http://www.helium.com/items/229531-understanding-why-people-stereotype

Maybe you should get that looked at :)

you are right - I do and I'll work on it - sorry. In this instance however, I was just being a little funny - I'm sorry you didn't chuckle - but you are right. thanks

Papa D
01-03-2013, 12:13
lousy idea. hikers will fill it with trash

I think that you are right in saying that hikers will put trash in them Lone Wolf but they are used with success in the Northeast and while I have on occasion found (and packed out) trash in bear boxes, I have never seen them "filled" or "stuffed" with trash. Either I'm too optimistic or you are too pessimistic - - probably somewhere in between. Good point though. What do you think of my idea of a "test box?"

Spirit Bear
01-03-2013, 12:16
I saw 6 bears in 2012 section hiking the AT in georgia. One situation was a cub and the mom about 30 or so feet from up up stream in a creek. My take after seeing 6 of them. They are not preditors, they are scavengers (spellings). They become a problem when hikers don't pick up their trash or hang their food. 4 of the 6 bears I encountered could have easily attacked me, killed me done whatever they wanted, yet all of them just sat there looking at me and eventually walked in an opposite direction as me, they wanted to avoid confrontation at all costs. My take.

Now I have yet to run into a bear with rabies, not sure what that one would do.

Lone Wolf
01-03-2013, 12:16
I think that you are right in saying that hikers will put trash in them Lone Wolf but they are used with success in the Northeast and while I have on occasion found (and packed out) trash in bear boxes, I have never seen them "filled" or "stuffed" with trash. Either I'm too optimistic or you are too pessimistic - - probably somewhere in between. Good point though. What do you think of my idea of a "test box?"

i'm a realist. and pithy

Rasty
01-03-2013, 12:19
i'm a realist. and pithy

You forgot to add humble, but a humble person would never call themselves humble

turtle fast
01-03-2013, 12:20
In our neck of the woods, bear boxes are common on heavily used trail systems and they do not become refuse bins....is it a regional thing where those hikers are more aware or is it due to laziness and inexperience? Though expensive, I would keep the impact to the more used shelter areas already....though the other option would be bear poles or cables.

Papa D
01-03-2013, 12:24
i'm a realist. and pithy

well, I'm a cautious optimist - - a realist is someone who has learned that "no" is an answer that almost always works. Q: "Do you think you can run a sub-4 hour marathon?" A:No - - well, all the respondent has to do is nothing - if you don't try things, you can't do anything. An answer of "maybe" or "we could try" is certainly riskier but it sets up more success. But, if you say, "Papa D, can you run a sub-3 hour marathon, well then my realism side kicks in. The answer is a resounding, "NO."

and I should go to work and this post should get back to bears

Train Wreck
01-03-2013, 12:28
Kinda agree with LW on this one. Years ago I stayed at several campsites with bear boxes while doing a loop hike in Kings Canyon/Sequoia NP, and without exception, every box had trash in it. One had sticky fluid all over the bottom. Not what you'd want to lay your food bag in. Every one of them stunk worse than any dumpster.

Spirit Bear
01-03-2013, 12:29
LOL, my response had little to do with the OP. I guess my take, the more hikers on the trail are going to naturally cause more bear encounters. In Ga you can carry a handgun with you, if you need it for a security blanket. For me thought I have overcome my fear of bears. My biggest fear of hiking on the AT was this last February. Either hang your food or sleep with it, bears will not attack you for the food in your tent, however they will snag it if you leave it unattended.

This summer i met a daughter mother tandem at Hawk Mountain Shelter in Ga. They camped at the springer shelter the night before, and that morning they went to the privy, left their packs at the shelter leaning with food in them. They were gone 5-10 minutes tops and when they came back a full grown adult bear was in one of the packs eating some peanuts.

Now the problem is trying to get your pack once a bear has grabbed it, she had a handgun and fired it in the air and the bear ran off. They hung their packs every night from there on.

For me I hang my food simply for peace of mind, i sleep in a hammock and I would be wigging out all night if I knew I had some food behind my head, or at my feet, or under my hammock. If I hang it I know the bears will not be interested in me.

Also when I fetch water and have to hike off the trail. I will leave my pack put carry my food and trash with me along with my filter and bottles. I have three Kitchen trash disposal bags in my pack, one for my sleeping bag, one for everythign else, one to use when i "hydrate".

Everyone Hikes their own hike, after you put in a few miles and have encountered a few bears, you will figure out how you deal with it.

I have found the problems tend to be with big group hikers who think they are camping and not hiking out in the wilderness. Trash left at a shelter is a big problem, who is going to pick it up, the trash angel? I mean most of the problems can be fixed with educated hikers.

Papa D
01-03-2013, 12:35
Kinda agree with LW on this one. Years ago I stayed at several campsites with bear boxes while doing a loop hike in Kings Canyon/Sequoia NP, and without exception, every box had trash in it. One had sticky fluid all over the bottom. Not what you'd want to lay your food bag in. Every one of them stunk worse than any dumpster.

yep - I can see this but they DO work well in the Northeast - - about 1 in 5 get a little messy there but this is true for other built fixtures on the trail - privies, shelters, and so forth. I just wish Lone Wolf would actually engage rather than just sit back and hit the "no" button to everything anyone suggests.

Lone Wolf
01-03-2013, 12:41
yep - I can see this but they DO work well in the Northeast - - about 1 in 5 get a little messy there but this is true for other built fixtures on the trail - privies, shelters, and so forth. I just wish Lone Wolf would actually engage rather than just sit back and hit the "no" button to everything anyone suggests.

"engage"? what's to engage. bear boxes will not work down south on the AT. fact

HikerMom58
01-03-2013, 12:47
:-? Interesting topic... seems like there's problems associated with all the ways we try to keep our food safe and away from the bears. I do like the idea of the bear boxes better than the bear cables. But didn't think about the smell factor if not used properly.

I have to get going but just can't go without sayin.... I'm so impressed with the personal interactions on this thread. It says a lot about what can get "lost" in this type of communication but then also shows how it can be overcome and "end well". :D You guys rock..

Train Wreck
01-03-2013, 12:47
Kinda agree with LW on this one. Years ago I stayed at several campsites with bear boxes while doing a loop hike in Kings Canyon/Sequoia NP, and without exception, every box had trash in it. One had sticky fluid all over the bottom. Not what you'd want to lay your food bag in. Every one of them stunk worse than any dumpster.

turtle fast
01-03-2013, 13:01
Then the issue would be mute if a system of bear poles was installed. No cables, ties, pulleys to wear out and fairly idiot proof. No sticky subatances to worry about and no garbage build up issue....yet affords some degree of bear/critter protection.

Spirit Bear
01-03-2013, 13:21
Kinda agree with LW on this one. Years ago I stayed at several campsites with bear boxes while doing a loop hike in Kings Canyon/Sequoia NP, and without exception, every box had trash in it. One had sticky fluid all over the bottom. Not what you'd want to lay your food bag in. Every one of them stunk worse than any dumpster.

This ^^^^^

Lone Wolf
01-03-2013, 13:25
I just wish Lone Wolf would actually engage rather than just sit back and hit the "no" button to everything anyone suggests.

you are always snivelin' about how i post. you really need to put me on ignore. seriously

Train Wreck
01-03-2013, 13:27
"engage"? what's to engage. bear boxes will not work down south on the AT. fact

Are you saying the south has more slovenly hikers :confused:

Lone Wolf
01-03-2013, 13:30
Are you saying the south has more slovenly hikers :confused:

yes. the majority of thru-hiker wannabes haven't spent much time at all backpacking. pack it in-pack it out is foreign to them

Lone Wolf
01-03-2013, 13:31
Are you saying the south has more slovenly hikers :confused:

yes. the majority of thru-hiker wannabes haven't spent much time at all backpacking. pack it in-pack it out is foreign to them

Train Wreck
01-03-2013, 13:51
yes. the majority of thru-hiker wannabes haven't spent much time at all backpacking. pack it in-pack it out is foreign to them

I think just their presence is enough of a temptation regardless of location

Rasty
01-03-2013, 13:58
I would prefer to see less infrastructure along the trails. I like the wilderness areas for this reason. Man made structures are always dirtier. I usually water up at a source and camp in a dry area as much as possible. Walking off the trail 50 to 100 feet and find a tiny space to set up a tent. The next morning pack up and leave without a trace of anyone having been there. I have never had any animal problems when not camped at a frequently used campsite.

RCBear
01-03-2013, 14:26
I would prefer to see less infrastructure along the trails. I like the wilderness areas for this reason. Man made structures are always dirtier. I usually water up at a source and camp in a dry area as much as possible. Walking off the trail 50 to 100 feet and find a tiny space to set up a tent. The next morning pack up and leave without a trace of anyone having been there. I have never had any animal problems when not camped at a frequently used campsite.

I would have to agree on this 1. Making things more convenient along the trail in my opinion takes much of what is attractive about trails out of the equation. At this point it simply becomes more of a picnic park mindset to me

Sarcasm the elf
01-03-2013, 14:29
lousy idea. hikers will fill it with trashThey have bear boxes at nearly every shelter I've stayed at from N.J. to Northern MA and they work great. The few I've seen that had lots of trash in them were the ones at shelters that are too close to the road.

RCBear
01-03-2013, 14:32
I just wish Lone Wolf would actually engage rather than just sit back and hit the "no" button to everything anyone suggests.

you are always snivelin' about how i post. you really need to put me on ignore. seriously

LW, you crack me up. I swear I think somebody pee's in your Cheerios every morning. :) you have a lot of quality experience to offer, but your delivery could use a little work from time to time

Papa D
01-03-2013, 15:44
you are always snivelin' about how i post. you really need to put me on ignore. seriously

no - I appreciate your posts. I have an open mind and even agree with you from time to time. You do post as if you are the final authority on topics sometimes which is sort boorish.

Papa D
01-03-2013, 15:51
They have bear boxes at nearly every shelter I've stayed at from N.J. to Northern MA and they work great. The few I've seen that had lots of trash in them were the ones at shelters that are too close to the road.

There are problems with everything that is "built" to assist hikers. Some hikers trash shelters and pull the wood off and throw it in the fire-pit. Others drop their tampons and other garbage in the privy. Others stuff bear boxes with trash and still others mis-use and end up breaking or messing up bear cables. Nothing is perfect. I DO think that Bear Boxes warrant some consideration and maybe experimentation because they DO work. Cables mostly work. I'm a very experienced hanger of food in trees but sometimes the right tree is hard to find in the night and I'm guessing most of my good hangs are about 60% good - I've seen some very resourceful bears - very - I've also seen a frustrated bear quit a bear box and leave - they are bear proof.

HikerMom58
01-03-2013, 16:16
Man, where is the "LIKE" button cause I want 2.. No, "LOVE" the last 3 comments on this thread... starting with RCBear & Papa D's last 2 comments. :)

Lone Wolf
01-03-2013, 16:18
Man, where is the "LIKE" button cause I want 2.. No, "LOVE" the last 3 comments on this thread... starting with RCBear & Papa D's last 2 comments. :)
you may join papa in putting me on your ignore list

Old Hiker
01-03-2013, 16:26
Why can't we just learn to hang our food properly? And if not, deal with the consequences? Or just have the intestinal fortitude to sleep with our food? (Not me, by the way. Way too paranoid.) It's not like you are 100s of miles from a food supply, even if your food is taken.

Might as well clear the rocks, level the hills to a 5-10% grade and pave it.

Train Wreck
01-03-2013, 16:30
Might as well clear the rocks, level the hills to a 5-10% grade and pave it.

Please start with northern PA :p

Papa D
01-03-2013, 16:41
yes. the majority of thru-hiker wannabes haven't spent much time at all backpacking. pack it in-pack it out is foreign to them

I agree with this. He might very well be correct about bear boxes - - I'd just like to try one because maybe with the proper instructions it could work. By this logic, we shouldn't have privies or trail shelters in the south either because they are equal receptacles for trash and mess.

HikerMom58
01-03-2013, 16:44
you may join papa in putting me on your ignore list

NO, I won't do that at all. I like you a lot! I like reading your comments. You know you are rough around the edges and come across as a know- it -all but you don't want to ever admit it to anyone, when they bring it up. You can say you were "the best in the business". But, you had to say it not anyone else.
Nope, I like YOU. I might not like ur behavior sometimes but that's something totally different. I would hope you could say the same about me.

You have a lot to share with us and we appreciate ur willingness to share with us. We want/need you around here. I think I'm speaking for most people.

I do think that in a perfect world everyone would pack in and pack out, just like you said, but it's not a perfect world so we come up with other ways to make it work- that's all we are sayin...,, and even those solutions aren't perfect. *cyber hug*

Sarcasm the elf
01-03-2013, 16:46
Why can't we just learn to hang our food properly? And if not, deal with the consequences? Or just have the intestinal fortitude to sleep with our food? (Not me, by the way. Way too paranoid.) It's not like you are 100s of miles from a food supply, even if your food is taken. Might as well clear the rocks, level the hills to a 5-10% grade and pave it.If EVERYONE, just learned to properly hang their food, shelter themselves and bury their poo, then we wouldnt need bearboxes, shelters or privies at all, but this isnt going to happen. For better or worse these items are a crutch to keep the rest of the trail from getting trashed, and in doing do they help to prevent the actions of stupid people from ruining the trail for the rest of us.

Papa D
01-03-2013, 16:52
Pack it in / pack it out is not "foreign" to most wanna be thru hikers - - I've seen my share of comedy regarding newbie thru-hikers but the vast majority are well intentioned and do pack out their trash (or at least almost all of it). The people that would most likely stuff a bear box with trash would be a weekend backpacking group who just took too much stuff, got too drunk or high, stuffed some stuff in there at night and forgot it (or intentionally forgot it) the next morning.

on another thread, The Cleaner recently posted about his clean up mission at Jerry's Cabin Shelter - - I guarantee you that it wasn't thru-hikers that trashed Jerry's Cabin but probably bear hunters. Bear Hunters (for the most part, and yeah, here comes a stereotype - NOT very LNT).

A bear box in the south might indeed get trashed but I seriously doubt it would come from thru-hikers - even new ones.

Papa D
01-03-2013, 16:54
If EVERYONE, just learned to properly hang their food, shelter themselves and bury their poo, then we wouldnt need bearboxes, shelters or privies at all, but this isnt going to happen. For better or worse these items are a crutch to keep the rest of the trail from getting trashed, and in doing do they help to prevent the actions of stupid people from ruining the trail for the rest of us.

yep - - but it IS a lot of work to hang your food - - especially in the dark, in the rain, when you can't find a tree - - I mean, I agree with you but I tell you, those bear boxes in New Hampshire and Maine do work.

Sarcasm the elf
01-03-2013, 16:58
yep - - but it IS a lot of work to hang your food - - especially in the dark, in the rain, when you can't find a tree - - I mean, I agree with you but I tell you, those bear boxes in New Hampshire and Maine do work.Trust me, I'm 100% in favor of bearboxes. My argument is that in a perfect world they wouldn't be necessary, but in practice they're a huge benefit to the trail.

Drybones
01-03-2013, 17:04
baby bears are sooo stinkin cute.... as a matter of fact, that pic looks like my last litter....

I can see the likeness...they are cute little buggers...Take after their mom I'm sure...I'd probably just open the food bag up for them.

saltysack
01-03-2013, 17:13
Stay home if your afraid of what lives along the trail! Black bears are not man eaters! I'd worry about the back woods red necks.... Squeal boy!!! Bears are part of what makes the trail what it is! No need for more man made crap to detract from natures true beauty.

gizzy bear
01-03-2013, 17:45
I can see the likeness...they are cute little buggers...Take after their mom I'm sure...I'd probably just open the food bag up for them.


awwww thanks...imma learn them to spin around in tu-tus and ride bikes and juggle... like momma ;)

Papa D
01-03-2013, 18:51
Trust me, I'm 100% in favor of bearboxes. My argument is that in a perfect world they wouldn't be necessary, but in practice they're a huge benefit to the trail.

ok - sure, gotcha - thread drift here but would you support privies in Tennessee? There are none. In a perfect world, everyone digs a nice deep cat hole, uses two squares wrapped around some leaves for bulk and it's done or packs it out in pristine areas (yep, I've done that too) but TN shelters are marked by piles of melted TP in the surrounding woods. On certain parts of the trail, helicopters air lift wood chips by the pallet just to deal with human waste in molding privies. None of this would be necessary in a perfect world either - just as a point of discussion.

Papa D
01-03-2013, 19:05
Stay home if your afraid of what lives along the trail! Black bears are not man eaters! I'd worry about the back woods red necks.... Squeal boy!!! Bears are part of what makes the trail what it is! No need for more man made crap to detract from natures true beauty.

thanks for getting back to bears. I too always get excited if I get to see a bear and agree with you.

I've felt much more threatened by vicious dogs (often at road crossings) - - I was really challenged at the dirt road crossing just north of Devil Fork Gap recently by scowling teeth bearing dogs - and another time in the not so distant past by some "goth" backpackers in Connecticut with some very vicious rottweilers. Mistreated dogs are much scarier to me than bears. Attacks by Black Bears on humans are very rare. The increased population isn't necessarily a bad thing for hikers or for the southern appalachians - - I fear that it is a bad thing for bears that wander too close to high population areas.

atmilkman
01-03-2013, 19:15
Black bears are now being spotted in north and northeast Alabama more and more and we're real excited about that.

Sarcasm the elf
01-03-2013, 19:15
ok - sure, gotcha - thread drift here but would you support privies in Tennessee? There are none. In a perfect world, everyone digs a nice deep cat hole, uses two squares wrapped around some leaves for bulk and it's done or packs it out in pristine areas (yep, I've done that too) but TN shelters are marked by piles of melted TP in the surrounding woods. On certain parts of the trail, helicopters air lift wood chips by the pallet just to deal with human waste in molding privies. None of this would be necessary in a perfect world either - just as a point of discussion.Personally, I think that all maintained shelters and campsites should have a bear box and a privy. Building shelters and "official" campsites is a way of artificially concentrating people's use/impact into certain areas and when this is done certain issues such as sanitation problems and animals learning to rely on hikers to bring them food will need to be dealt with. Didn't we as a society learn centuries ago that if we put a lot of people in one place at the same time, then we need to deal with sanitation?

HikerMom58
01-03-2013, 19:19
Personally, I think that all maintained shelters and campsites should have a bear box and a privy. Building shelters and "official" campsites is a way of artificially concentrating people's use/impact into certain areas and when this is done certain issues such as sanitation problems and animals learning to rely on hikers to bring them food will need to be dealt with. Didn't we as a society learn centuries ago that if we put a lot of people in one place at the same time, then we need to deal with sanitation?

I agree... the trail seems to be getting more use every year without slowing down.

Sarcasm the elf
01-03-2013, 19:23
On the subject of the opening post, the area I live in is currently being repopulated by a number species including black bears and personally I'm glad to have them. The only animals that recently returned and are causing problems are coyotes and the wildly overpopulated (and delicious) whitetail deer.

Papa D
01-03-2013, 19:25
The problem isn't thru-hikers for the most part (newbie exceptions excepted) - it's mostly you typical family out for the weekend, church, school, father, mother, son trip, hunters, and random people that haven't been properly educated as to how to dispose of waste and how to deal with their food including what foods to carry, how to package it, how to prepare it without making a mess, how to re-package and store it, etc. They are also un-educated about latrine practices in the forest in general and see a privy and treat it like they would a public bathroom. Education, over the long haul is the key.

Someone told me this summer that if you open a snickers bar in the woods, a bear can smell it before you eat it a mile away. Is this true?

Rasty
01-03-2013, 19:31
The problem isn't thru-hikers for the most part (newbie exceptions excepted) - it's mostly you typical family out for the weekend, church, school, father, mother, son trip, hunters, and random people that haven't been properly educated as to how to dispose of waste and how to deal with their food including what foods to carry, how to package it, how to prepare it without making a mess, how to re-package and store it, etc. They are also un-educated about latrine practices in the forest in general and see a privy and treat it like they would a public bathroom. Education, over the long haul is the key.

Someone told me this summer that if you open a snickers bar in the woods, a bear can smell it before you eat it a mile away. Is this true?

I may be wrong but mile+ sense of smell is mostly polar bears.

Papa D
01-03-2013, 19:49
I may be wrong but mile+ sense of smell is mostly polar bears.

oh - good - well, when my friend Jen told me that, I was thinking that it didn't make much sense -- I do know that a bear's sense of smell is much better than most dogs -thanks for the response

Lone Wolf
01-03-2013, 21:14
NO, I won't do that at all. I like you a lot! I like reading your comments. You know you are rough around the edges and come across as a know- it -all but you don't want to ever admit it to anyone, when they bring it up. You can say you were "the best in the business". But, you had to say it not anyone else.

oh puhleeze :rolleyes:

bamboo bob
01-03-2013, 21:23
Hikers, especially in GA-NC-VA (because of their numbers) but really all of the AT, are so fcuking lazy. They fill every possible container with trash. I forget where now, but there was an old rusty 55 gl barrel out in the woods and it was stuffed with hiker trash as if the trash truck made rounds there. Also under logs, under shelters, (gag) a metal box would be no better than the trash filled fire pits. maybe worse because some numb-nut might light it on fire.

hikerboy57
01-03-2013, 21:31
If EVERYONE, just learned to properly hang their food, shelter themselves and bury their poo, then we wouldnt need bearboxes, shelters or privies at all, but this isnt going to happen. For better or worse these items are a crutch to keep the rest of the trail from getting trashed, and in doing do they help to prevent the actions of stupid people from ruining the trail for the rest of us.
i have slept with my food for the past 5 years and never ever had an issue with bears or any other critters. its more about cleaning up after yourself than it is about hanging your food.its the cooking waste left behind, its the crumbs that bring the mice, its the half burned trash in the firepit. all these things train the critters as to where they can find food. the more "tourists" the bigger the problem.i think if you're aware of proper lnt,and youre keeping a clean camp you shouldnt have any issue at all with bears.(eastern black bears of course)i hung my food for years, but after meeting so many thrus over the years, very few ever bothered to hang, that i felt kinda silly.

MuddyWaters
01-03-2013, 21:32
I may be wrong but mile+ sense of smell is mostly polar bears.


Bears use their nose to find a mate, that may be 30+ miles away.

All they need is the wind.

A bear was actually observed somehow, tracking several miles upwind to find a dead elk that was underwater, drowned in a lake by a landslide. The bear then retrieved the elk from under the water.


Why can't we just learn to hang our food properly? And if not, deal with the consequences? Or just have the intestinal fortitude to sleep with our food? (Not me, by the way. Way too paranoid.) It's not like you are 100s of miles from a food supply, even if your food is taken.

Just not that easy to find the perfect tree, especially on steep hillside. Sometimes it could be hundreds of yards from your campsite. Finding a branch >6" at the base, but too thin 10' out to support a bear, 20' off the ground for a perfect PCT hang takes time, a lot of time.

Even harder to throw the line over it without spending 20 min working on it, esp on a steep hillside.

HikerMom58
01-03-2013, 21:53
I may be wrong but mile+ sense of smell is mostly polar bears.

Our group found out from one of the game wardens that a black bear had been breaking into cars that belonged to campers at a local campground. Signs were palstered everywhere alerting those that camped there not to leave food out near the campsite, which also meant not in your car. You wouldn't think that a bear could pick up the scent of food through a sealed up auto, but think again. It is said that the keen sense of smell in black bears is "seven times greater than that of a bloodhound" and they can detect odors over a mile away.




oh puhleeze :rolleyes:

True dat!! :) You better be nice to me when I meet you in person one day. :D

MuddyWaters
01-03-2013, 22:54
Old sayin:

If a pine needle falls in the woods:
The deer hears it
The bear smells it
The hog eats it.

Drybones
01-03-2013, 23:14
Old sayin:

If a pine needle falls in the woods:
The deer hears it
The bear smells it
The hog eats it.

And the turkey sees it.

Papa D
01-03-2013, 23:19
Our group found out from one of the game wardens that a black bear had been breaking into cars that belonged to campers at a local campground. Signs were palstered everywhere alerting those that camped there not to leave food out near the campsite, which also meant not in your car. You wouldn't think that a bear could pick up the scent of food through a sealed up auto, but think again. It is said that the keen sense of smell in black bears is "seven times greater than that of a bloodhound" and they can detect odors over a mile away.





True dat!! :) You better be nice to me when I meet you in person one day. :D

at least there is a little smile on his smiley

Drybones
01-03-2013, 23:26
LW, you crack me up. I swear I think somebody pee's in your Cheerios every morning. :) you have a lot of quality experience to offer, but your delivery could use a little work from time to time

LW...for what it's worth, I may not agree with your responses, or anyone else for that matter, but I do like the fact you say what you think, and to the point.

"The more the words the less the meaning"...Proverb

Another Kevin
01-03-2013, 23:42
Hmm. In several places where I hike, the law is that you have to hang or use a canister, so I've got in the habit of hanging, always. (I'd use boxes, cables or poles if they were supplied.) I see from hikerboy's post that that'll mark me as a clueless weekender in some other places. So be it.

I heard a bear whoofing around the tree I used one night, and came back to it in the morning to find the bark all clawed up. The bear didn't figure out the PCT hang. A good thing too, because I only got the line about six feet out from the trunk, the branch was canted and slippery. There were limits to how long I was willing to spend looking for the perfect tree. Life is full of tradeoffs.

Incidentally, I usually finish the hang by coiling the line and slip-knotting the coil to the hanging rope, so that when I let the toggle up to the 'biner, the line is up out of reach and there's nothing at ground level. I snag the slip knot with a pole in the morning and the coil drops down. I think some of the New York bears have figured out ways to use the rope. There are some pretty bright black bears in New York.

RCBear
01-04-2013, 00:00
Incidentally, I usually finish the hang by coiling the line and slip-knotting the coil to the hanging rope, so that when I let the toggle up to the 'biner, the line is up out of reach and there's nothing at ground level. I snag the slip knot with a pole in the morning and the coil drops down. I think some of the New York bears have figured out ways to use the rope. There are some pretty bright black bears in New York.

I have NO idea what you just said AK, but suffice it to say, I would trust you to hang my food. .. :)

HikerMom58
01-04-2013, 00:19
at least there is a little smile on his smiley

Oh Yes, Yes there is... thanks for pointing that out. He's OK! :cool:

Tuckahoe
01-04-2013, 00:51
Its not that LW's posts are rough around the edge, or that hes a know it all. He just cuts to the chase and avoids the BS. I'd rather read what he has to say than read the preachy pontifications of a few others.

RCBear
01-04-2013, 07:53
Its not that LW's posts are rough around the edge, or that hes a know it all. He just cuts to the chase and avoids the BS. I'd rather read what he has to say than read the preachy pontifications of a few others.

I enjoy his brevity AND content. but based on how he packages it at times, I'm just guessing he's not in sales. :)

HikerMom58
01-04-2013, 08:49
Its not that LW's posts are rough around the edge, or that hes a know it all. He just cuts to the chase and avoids the BS. I'd rather read what he has to say than read the preachy pontifications of a few others.

Ok... I hear ya. I can see how u could think that I am "preachy" at times. It may be true. I'm sorry about that. I'll try harder not to be that way in the future.

I'm glad that you don't find any of LW's posts offensive & you embrace his style but not everyone feels that way. I prefer a more give & take type dialog, myself. A kinder, more gentle approach. :sun I don't think he should be thrown under the bus for his "style." Obviously it's working for him or else he wouldn't do it. I'm sure he finds my posts annoying at times 2. Thanks for sharing ur opinion... good to know.

Pedaling Fool
01-04-2013, 09:05
Alright, back to bear talk. Has anyone ever heard a bear roar. They're not suppose to roar, but I heard on as I was hiking in Maine; it was a powerful roar that stopped us all dead in our tracks. They don't even growl http://www.bear.org/website/bear-pages/black-bear/communication/64-do-black-bears-growl.html , but nonetheless I heard a roar, a very powerful roar.

Drybones
01-04-2013, 09:27
I enjoy his brevity AND content. but based on how he packages it at times, I'm just guessing he's not in sales. :)

Definitely not sales...engineering maybe.

Drybones
01-04-2013, 09:30
I enjoy his brevity AND content. but based on how he packages it at times, I'm just guessing he's not in sales. :)

I almost always read the one line posts...rarely the ones with a paragraph.

hikerboy57
01-04-2013, 09:36
I enjoy his brevity AND content. but based on how he packages it at times, I'm just guessing he's not in sales. :)

yeah but how many times has dale carnegie thru hiked?

Sarcasm the elf
01-04-2013, 09:50
yeah but how many times has dale carnegie thru hiked?None, but I bet that He and the Harrimans used to own a lot of the trail.

Pedaling Fool
01-04-2013, 10:17
Alright, back to bear talk. Has anyone ever heard a bear roar. They're not suppose to roar, but I heard on as I was hiking in Maine; it was a powerful roar that stopped us all dead in our tracks. They don't even growl http://www.bear.org/website/bear-pages/black-bear/communication/64-do-black-bears-growl.html , but nonetheless I heard a roar, a very powerful roar.
You guys need to go back to the cafe, this here thread is about bears.

HikerMom58
01-04-2013, 10:21
Yes, sir!! I have never seen a bear much less heard them roar.... So, what did u do when u heard the bear roar that stopped you dead in ur tracks? Did you actually see the bear that roared?

Deer Hunter
01-04-2013, 10:36
Its not that LW's posts are rough around the edge, or that hes a know it all. He just cuts to the chase and avoids the BS. I'd rather read what he has to say than read the preachy pontifications of a few others.

I agree with you, Tuck.

atmilkman
01-04-2013, 10:37
Alright, back to bear talk. Has anyone ever heard a bear roar. They're not suppose to roar, but I heard on as I was hiking in Maine; it was a powerful roar that stopped us all dead in our tracks. They don't even growl http://www.bear.org/website/bear-pages/black-bear/communication/64-do-black-bears-growl.html , but nonetheless I heard a roar, a very powerful roar.
A friend of mine shot a bear out of a tree one time and when he came up on it, it was crying and sobbing like a grown man. He said it was the most God awful sound he ever heard in his life. It made him do the same. He "finished" him off and has never hunted again.

HikerMom58
01-04-2013, 10:55
A friend of mine shot a bear out of a tree one time and when he came up on it, it was crying and sobbing like a grown man. He said it was the most God awful sound he ever heard in his life. It made him do the same. He "finished" him off and has never hunted again.

Wow, M&M... that makes my heart stop. Aww.... poor thing. I feel bad for both of them.

Deer Hunter
01-04-2013, 10:59
A little bear info.

http://www.americanbear.org/senses.htm

atmilkman
01-04-2013, 11:03
Wow, M&M... that makes my heart stop. Aww.... poor thing. I feel bad for both of them.
I know the OP didn't want to talk about hunting, but the article does mention it, and when John said something about roaring I thought I'd mention that they can make and do other sounds. Some not so frightening.

turtle fast
01-04-2013, 11:15
I still think that for the aforementioned issues of trash collection, ease of use, ease of maintaining, and cleaning would be solved by the bear poles. Yes its not a cabinet that can become a trash collection hassle/mouse sanctuary/interior cleaning problem and the cost is much less than the bear boxes. I understand the issue of concentrating the impact of activity and that its probably a good idea by the shelters. I have seen para cord/cordage stuck in trees that hikers tried to get up and got stuck....heck its happened to me once (but I managed to get it down later after almost pulling a few limbs down).

RCBear
01-04-2013, 11:23
I enjoy his brevity AND content. but based on how he packages it at times, I'm just guessing he's not in sales. :)

yeah but how many times has dale carnegie thru hiked?

Good point :)

RCBear
01-04-2013, 11:29
Wow, M&M... that makes my heart stop. Aww.... poor thing. I feel bad for both of them.
I know the OP didn't want to talk about hunting, but the article does mention it, and when John said something about roaring I thought I'd mention that they can make and do other sounds. Some not so frightening.

I hunt deer and small populace game but just could never see myself hunting large, majestic, game. Maybe hypocritical, but that's just me.

Pedaling Fool
01-04-2013, 15:12
.... Did you actually see the bear that roared?Never saw the bear, despite it being very close, the foilage was just too thick.


A friend of mine shot a bear out of a tree one time and when he came up on it, it was crying and sobbing like a grown man. He said it was the most God awful sound he ever heard in his life. It made him do the same. He "finished" him off and has never hunted again.From all the sounds I've heard a black bear make I can very much believe that it made those sounds; just look at the video of the two males fighting at the bottom of this page http://www.bear.org/website/bear-pages/black-bear/communication/64-do-black-bears-growl.html

You would think a black bear would growl/roar, just because it looks so big and menacing and because they do make them sound like that in the movies, but as the above link says that's just hollywood dubbing in wolf sounds.

The sound I heard was a very powerful roar that I could feel in my chest. The sounds I've heard from mountain lions are too high of a screech, not a thunderous roar that I heard.

waywardfool
01-04-2013, 22:08
I know the OP didn't want to talk about hunting

This discussion has been great. I just didn't want it to quickly devolve into a rant on hunting, then gun control, then who knows what. It's held up for 88 posts so far. :banana

Papa D
01-04-2013, 22:23
This discussion has been great. I just didn't want it to quickly devolve into a rant on hunting, then gun control, then who knows what. It's held up for 88 posts so far. :banana

yeah - pretty cool it's still going