Winter Stoves

[Christine_Runs]

Hi,

looking for suggestions about winter stoves. What do you use? What would you recommend?

C

[Tinker]

Down to freezing and a bit below alcohol works well.

From freezing (32 degrees f.) and below, alcohol is a bit slower, since it doesn't provide as much btu's as pressurized gas (canisters) and liquid petroleum products (naptha, Coleman and similar "white" gasolines, and kerosene).

In practice, I use alcohol most of the time because it is renewable. I sleep with the fuel (and a bottle of preheated water in very cold weather - as a hot water bottle) when it is cold, which makes getting breakfast - hot cereal and coffee - much quicker the following morning.

If I expect it to be much below freezing I will bring my old MSR Whisperlite stove and Coleman (or similar ) fuel, especially if I am cooking for two or more people.

In spring, summer, and fall I sometimes carry a pressurized gas (canister) stove if I am hiking with another person to speed things up when more boiled water is required.

I have tried, and sometimes still use, Esbit tabs - but that's mostly for overnight or weekend solo hikes in the higher mountains in warmer weather, and just as a weight savings (but they also make excellent fire starters).

Finally, I have used wood fired stoves, some homemade, and I still own a second generation Zzip stove. It's fine for flatter trail hiking, but it's relatively heavy compared to an alcohol stove, and there are places where even the smell of a wood fire will drive the local rangers, maintainers, and ridge runners crazy, plus - you must be careful when discarding the burned wood - embers can ignite combustible ground debris.


If I lived and hiked in Canada (depending upon where, exactly) and did a lot of hiking where the temperature was expected to be extremely cold - waaaaaayyy below freezing, I would definitely make it a priority to own a liquid fueled stove.

[Wise Old Owl]

There's a good story!


where even the smell of a wood fire will drive the local rangers, maintainers, and ridge runners crazy

To answer the original post - Wisperlite and alcohol.... but I am thinking of going back to wood.

[Feral Bill]

If you are melting snow for water you need serious heat and burn time, so white gas. I use a SVEA if alone, an old Optimus 111B (very heavy) for groups.

[The Cleaner]

Down to freezing and a bit below alcohol works well.

From freezing (32 degrees f.) and below, alcohol is a bit slower, since it doesn't provide as much btu's as pressurized gas (canisters) and liquid petroleum products (naptha, Coleman and similar "white" gasolines, and kerosene).

In practice, I use alcohol most of the time because it is renewable. I sleep with the fuel (and a bottle of preheated water in very cold weather - as a hot water bottle) when it is cold, which makes getting breakfast - hot cereal and coffee - much quicker the following morning.

If I expect it to be much below freezing I will bring my old MSR Whisperlite stove and Coleman (or similar ) fuel, especially if I am cooking for two or more people.

In spring, summer, and fall I sometimes carry a pressurized gas (canister) stove if I am hiking with another person to speed things up when more boiled water is required.

I have tried, and sometimes still use, Esbit tabs - but that's mostly for overnight or weekend solo hikes in the higher mountains in warmer weather, and just as a weight savings (but they also make excellent fire starters).

Finally, I have used wood fired stoves, some homemade, and I still own a second generation Zzip stove. It's fine for flatter trail hiking, but it's relatively heavy compared to an alcohol stove, and there are places where even the smell of a wood fire will drive the local rangers, maintainers, and ridge runners crazy, plus - you must be careful when discarding the burned wood - embers can ignite combustible ground debris.


If I lived and hiked in Canada (depending upon where, exactly) and did a lot of hiking where the temperature was expected to be extremely cold - waaaaaayyy below freezing, I would definitely make it a priority to own a liquid fueled stove.
What a snafu :eek: ...Been using a Svea 123 for 30some years,the 1st lasted 27 years and it could have been fixed,But I thought I deserved a new one....no sleeping with anything,fuel is cheap.The only problem is that some hikers are unable to carry an extra pound:rolleyes:.....You couldn't pay me to carry an alky stove.....I like to cook real food and I've used my Svea at 28* below 0.....

[JAK]

A hobo stove needs to be a little bigger in winter. You need something more efficient for getting fuel, like a saw or even a heavier fixed blade or small hatchet, especially for emergencies. You can bring the blade of a garden saw and a nail and leave the handle home. That is the lightest solution, but midwinter I still prefer the hatchet. Has other uses. Hobo stove needs a way to insulate from the ground or snow. Wind screen is better idea than double wall. Needs to be tested in cold wet conditions with less than idea fuel. Small lighters are to hard to work in the cold. Bigger lighter is better, plus backup. Some candles, vegetable oil, alcohol, and something to make and carry charcoal with. It doesn't all have to be heavy, but it does need to be tested. Also test getting a large item of clothing wet, and then getting it dry. When really cold, like below 0F, it is very hard to tell the difference between good fuel and bad until you burn it.

[The Snowman]

I like one of two stoves for winter use my tried and true Whisperlite most of the time or my wood burning sierra zip stove on longer trips.

[Papa D]

whisperlight

[zelph]

Winter Jetboil

http://yakpacking.com/index.php?page=jetboil

[The Cleaner]

Winter Jetboil

http://yakpacking.com/index.php?page=jetboil When I cleaned up Jerry's Cabin shelter a few days ago,I found an almost full propane/butane canister.That says a lot about using canister stoves in cold weather,IMO....

[Lyle]

White Gas. SVEA for me. The only problem with recommending these, is that folks today don't know how to use them. There is a learning curve, and the dead of winter probably isn't the best time to learn.

They are very dependable once you learn the tricks and quirks of your particular stove. They each have their own personality.

If you decide to use one, in real cold weather, insulate them from the ground. For my SVEA I use a small square of closed cell foam pad. Makes the stove much more efficient.

[The Cleaner]

White Gas. SVEA for me. The only problem with recommending these, is that folks today don't know how to use them. There is a learning curve, and the dead of winter probably isn't the best time to learn.

They are very dependable once you learn the tricks and quirks of your particular stove. They each have their own personality.

If you decide to use one, in real cold weather, insulate them from the ground. For my SVEA I use a small square of closed cell foam pad. Makes the stove much more efficient. I remember back in the early 80s many hikers used Svea stoves.It was a lot of fun watching newbies light their stoves.Some used a pump,some used a priming paste and most just used fuel(usually too much).Often there was a large flare-up,which cleared the picnic table till the fire ball was under control.I recall one hiker that would put his Svea almost in the campfire till enough pressure built up:eek:.I'd say he had an interesting trail name.....

[Papa D]

Canister stoves are real nice in season - if they are not working, there is nothing you can do. If you have a white gas stove (like a whisperlight) you have lots of options for tweaking it and making it work. I carry a pocket rocket all summer - - about October, I transition to the Whisperlight.

[Another Kevin]

I recall one hiker that would put his Svea almost in the campfire till enough pressure built up:eek:.I'd say he had an interesting trail name.....

I knew a guy in the '70s with the trail name 'Kaboom' but thought it referred to, uhm, his digestive processes. Maybe it was the same guy?

[hikerhobs]

esbit.......

[The Cleaner]

esbit....... Esbit makes a great fire stater for this.....18842

[yellowsirocco]

When I cleaned up Jerry's Cabin shelter a few days ago,I found an almost full propane/butane canister.That says a lot about using canister stoves in cold weather,IMO....

I wouldn't jump to that conclusion. Lots of people take more canisters than they need because they don't have experience with their stove. But, yeah, typical screw on top canister stoves are pretty bad in the cold. The inverted canister stoves on the other hand work well, but there are very few actually using them. I have a Windpro and you can invert the canister on it when it gets too cold. But it is only good for cooking, if you are melting snow then you need lots of fuel and therefore white gas is better..

[Bateauxdriver]

I wouldn't jump to that conclusion. Lots of people take more canisters than they need because they don't have experience with their stove. But, yeah, typical screw on top canister stoves are pretty bad in the cold. The inverted canister stoves on the other hand work well, but there are very few actually using them. I have a Windpro and you can invert the canister on it when it gets too cold. But it is only good for cooking, if you are melting snow then you need lots of fuel and therefore white gas is better..


I nearly went hungry one winter trip using a canister stove. Luckily a friend with a functioning stove heated some water for me to heat my canister in. It worked ok sitting in warm water.
I use my Optimus Nova with white gas if below freezing in the morning. My Optimus Crux canister in warmer weather. I cook real meals so I never use alcohol stoves
backpacking. I do use alcohol stoves to keep coffee hot or boil coccoa water when car camping because the flame is colder than white gas or butane.

[grayfox]

I do exactly as Tinker does.

In winter, anytime it is really cold, you need to have a foolproof method of heating food and water as a safety precaution. Hypothermia is a real danger anytime but especially so in winter. By the time you realize you have a problem, if indeed you do notice, you have a very short time to do something about it before your rational thought processes shut down. Your stove has to be quick, reliable, and easy to use with cold hands. All this is even more important if you hike alone.

In winter it is often easy to have a fire when you camp. It is safer if there is snow and nice to have it to warm up beside for a long time at no weight cost, even if you don't use it for cooking. While you hike carry a thermos of hot coco or anything sweet and warm. The slim metal thermos seems to work well though plastic is lighter.

[Wise Old Owl]

What a snafu :eek: ...Been using a Svea 123 for 30some years,the 1st lasted 27 years and it could have been fixed,But I thought I deserved a new one....no sleeping with anything,fuel is cheap.The only problem is that some hikers are unable to carry an extra pound:rolleyes:.....You couldn't pay me to carry an alky stove.....I like to cook real food and I've used my Svea at 28* below 0.....


Yea the rubber parts and joints become a bomb - my dad's failed about the same time - better to replace.

[Snowleopard]

For winter in Canada, I'd say the only choice is a liquid fuel stove, white gas or kerosene, such as Optimus Nova (my stove) or MSR Whisperlight/XGK/etc. (I hate MSR because mine failed at 4000 meters in Peru). I've read that gas is easier to start than kerosene in colder weather than I've cooked in. Gas and kerosene have more energy per gram or cc.

The Svea 123 is very reliable and I loved mine once I learned how to prime it, but for winter, especially melting snow there are a couple of things I don't like about it. The fuel tank is built in and if you need to refill it you have to wait for the stove to cool. A separate fuel tank lets you run the stove till you're done. Also, I don't like the idea of the fuel tank directly under the flame when you're running full blast for a long period. I worry about the fuel overheating, though this never happened to me and might never happen; if it does, it has a pressure relief valve that turns it into a flame thrower.

Upright canister stoves like the MSR pocket rocket aren't very good in the cold. There are tricks to keep it working by keeping the canister warm (NOT hot), but eventually it's too much trouble.

Remote canister stoves can be used with the canister inverted IF they have a preheat tube (the fuel runs through a metal tube that is heated by the flame, vaporizing the fuel before it reaches the nozzle). These will work to colder temperatures than upright stoves. This works down to about -20C=-4F http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_GasStoves.htm#Invert

[russb]

Whatever one uses, they need to be experts at that stove in less than optimum conditions. I use either wood or alcohol in subzero temps. I have had to heat water for someone whose whisperlight didn't work. It was likely not the stove's fault it was the person not having enough experience with his stove in colder conditions. btw, I used a zelph starlyte burner (original design) and it was below zero. Now my goto winter stove is the zelph fancee feest.

[Feral Bill]

Yea the rubber parts and joints become a bomb - my dad's failed about the same time - better to replace.
The sole rubber part, the filler cap gasket, is easily replaced for less than a dollar. There is nothing else to fail. For excitement you can place the stove near a campfire, and create a near biblical pillar of fire. No, not my stove.

[QiWiz]

Hi,

looking for suggestions about winter stoves. What do you use? What would you recommend?

C

If going into Eastern woodlands, I like to use a wood burning stove. More cheery, free fuel, and if I need to melt snow I don't worry that I did not bring enough fuel. Before becoming a wood afficionado, I used to like an alcohol stove. White gas works well but is a heavy choice. I do not recommend most canister stoves, though some have tricks to get them to work OK.

[kyhipo]

I love winter hiking!its fun and a little tricky,I like my pocket rocket,but I have learned to bring back up acohol stove or something,have fun.ky

[Christine_Runs]

Thanks for the suggestions so far. I am in Canada and want a stove that will work to around minus 30 Celsius. We plan on trips where the weekend forecast is minus 10 or 15 but I want something that will not fail if the weather is really bad (I probably should have included that in my original post!)

For those who mention making sure you know you stove, I do get that. I have no intentions of doing anything foolish. We are testing our gear with day trips and then will progress to close by over nights.

I have a pocket rocket for the summer. I was looking at alcohol stoves for the summer but from what I gather the weight savings diminishes when one does not resupply often? We did test out the pocket rocket for boiling water this weekend. It was probably minus 10 C and yes warming it up with body heat helps but ultimately it is not designed for winter and we could see that so hence why I am looking for suggestions.

I think I am leaning towards a Whisperlite but welcome more suggestions.

Christine

[konradchen]

If bringing a canister stove, I'm a big fan of the primus spider. It's affordable, light, and allows inverted canister use. I haven't had any issues even if when temps are in the 10's.

[swjohnsey]

Charles Darwin invented the Whisperlite.

[bfayer]

Charles Darwin invented the Whisperlite.

No, Darwin invented people that can't read instructions Engineers that don't understand that people don't read instructions invented the Whisperlite. :)

I pretty much stopped using my Whisperlite when I got my Windpro II. As long as the temp is above 10F the Windpro does fine. If its below 10F I won't need a backpacking stove :)

If for some reason I was out in below zero temps, I would absolutely take a white gas stove. I loved my old Optimus 99, but the advantage of the Whisperlite (and other remote tank stoves) is not having to refill the fuel tank when you are melting a lot of snow. If you have ever spilled white gas on your hands in below zero temps you can appreciate that feature.

I know don't spill fuel and the problem goes away. Easy for some, not for me.

[swjohnsey]

It is interesting to watch folks with their new Whisperlites. I love my Whisperlite.

[bfayer]

It is interesting to watch folks with their new Whisperlites. I love my Whisperlite.

A lot of facial hair has been lost in the learning process of new users over the years.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[QiWiz]

Thanks for the suggestions so far. I am in Canada and want a stove that will work to around minus 30 Celsius. We plan on trips where the weekend forecast is minus 10 or 15 but I want something that will not fail if the weather is really bad (I probably should have included that in my original post!) . . . I think I am leaning towards a Whisperlite but welcome more suggestions.

Christine

In these conditions, especially if not solo, would use a white gas stove. The more dependable and bombproof the better. MSR Whisperlite or Dragonfly come to mind, though a Simmerlite would be lighter and might be worth testing if weight is an issue.

[Tharwood]

MSR Dragon Fly..

[Tom Murphy]

SVEA 123R = RELIABLITY

Yes, it is heavy. Totally agree that refilling the tank is a pain and you need to be aware of the pressure relief valve. That said, it works every time.

good set of instructions on priming a SVEA

http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/priming.txt

[bfayer]

SVEA 123R = RELIABLITY

Yes, it is heavy. Totally agree that refilling the tank is a pain and you need to be aware of the pressure relief valve. That said, it works every time.

good set of instructions on priming a SVEA

http://home.comcast.net/~pinnah/DirtbagPinner/priming.txt

I used the priming paste for years. On one trip the only thing I could get was a tube of contact cement from a truck stop, turned out it worked pretty well.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

[colorado_rob]

... I think I am leaning towards a Whisperlite but welcome more suggestions.

Christine I tell you, I've tried a whole bunch of different stoves in deep-winter conditions, always trying to find something better, but I keep coming back to my good old trusty Whisperlite for winter use in Colorado and on high mountains around the world.

Canister stoves crap out, simple thermodynamics, despite claims to the contrary. All kinds of little bandaid fixes that kinda-sorta work briefly, like making a single heat for a meal or coffee. But if your source of water is melting snow, as mine always is in these conditions, these do NOT work.

The only canister stoves that do work in -30C conditions are the inverted canister ones, plenty of models out there, like the Snow Peak Crab stove, and they do work well but they are not quite as efficient, at least in my testing, as white gas stoves like the whisperlite. The XGK is right up there in performance w/ the Whisperlite, but sounds like a jet engine, hence why the Whisperlite came along. BTW: For anything bnut very short winter/cold trips, I always bring along an extra Whisperlite pump, I think it's 3 ounces, as that pump is the only piece of the setup that has ever died in the field on me.

[bfayer]

I tell you, I've tried a whole bunch of different stoves in deep-winter conditions, always trying to find something better, but I keep coming back to my good old trusty Whisperlite for winter use in Colorado and on high mountains around the world.

Canister stoves crap out, simple thermodynamics, despite claims to the contrary. All kinds of little bandaid fixes that kinda-sorta work briefly, like making a single heat for a meal or coffee. But if your source of water is melting snow, as mine always is in these conditions, these do NOT work.

The only canister stoves that do work in -30C conditions are the inverted canister ones, plenty of models out there, like the Snow Peak Crab stove, and they do work well but they are not quite as efficient, at least in my testing, as white gas stoves like the whisperlite. The XGK is right up there in performance w/ the Whisperlite, but sounds like a jet engine, hence why the Whisperlite came along. BTW: For anything bnut very short winter/cold trips, I always bring along an extra Whisperlite pump, I think it's 3 ounces, as that pump is the only piece of the setup that has ever died in the field on me.

Agree with all your points. I also take along some type of base plate to keep it from sinking into the snow.

I don't hike when its that cold nowadays, so I stick with my Windpro in cold weather.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

[Tinker]

A lot of facial hair has been lost in the learning process of new users over the years.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Hence the nickname Whiskerlite. :) Don't overprime it and you're fine. It takes some practice.

[wornoutboots]

When I cleaned up Jerry's Cabin shelter a few days ago,I found an almost full propane/butane canister.That says a lot about using canister stoves in cold weather,IMO....

Yeah when I carry a stove, I carry a Jetboil, it ALWAYS has problems in cold temps. I'm considering just carrying a cookpot & put it over an open fire

[PD230SOI]

My go to stove for very cold or large groups is the MSR Whisperlite International with a small square of closed cell foam pad taped with metal tape as an insulating base. I also have a wood burner, canister stove, and alky stove. But for the conditions described I would trust the MSR Whisperlite or a stove using white gas that has a proven track record.

[GLIDER304GUIDER]

Heading out on the trail next week with a group. We'll have a MSR Whisperlite and a XGK. Both are very reliable stoves.

[JansportD2]

Alcohol stove. My son and I hiked the AT in Pennsylvania between Chistmas and New Years Day. Lows in the upper teens and my stove (from Sgt. Rock's Ion plans) worked well. It just needs to be primed a little more. In the Iditarod, the mushrers use very large alcohol stoves fueled with Heet.

[colorado_rob]

Just another data point FWIW: My wife and I did a two-day backpack this last weekend in the CO high country, camping at about 11,200 feet in the Lost Creek Wilderness. For January, very mild weather, meaning highs in the 30's, low at night in the single digits. As I've said, I usually take my trusty Wisperlite on CO winter trips, but decided to try the JetBoil Sol Ti this weekend, given the relatively mild forecast and the fact that the Jetboil claims its new fuel regulator does a better job at handling cold temps.

Once again I was disappointed in the canister's performance. Keep in mind: we had to melt snow for our water source. If you warm the canister inside your jacket/wherever, you can get a few good minutes of performance out of it, enough to heat a couple/few cups for dinner or coffee/tea. But for melting snow? Fugedaboudid. Takes forever to get that job done as the canister cools quickly and heat output goes way, way down. We eeked out enough water to stay reasonably hydrated, but it took maybe a full hour to melt 3 quarts. Better things to do up there than mess around spending so much time making water.

Bottom line: if you need to melt copious amounts of snow for your water source, upright canister stoves require extreme patience and are not recommended. Inverted canister stoves, however, do work well, but tend to be less efficient weight-wise than the good old white gase setups like whiskerlights, er, whisperlites.

[yaduck9]

Hi,

looking for suggestions about winter stoves. What do you use? What would you recommend?

C

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cMX0Hc-AUg

Primus Omnifuel; works with white gas or canister ( inverted canister for cold temps ), built like a tank, pump is mostly metal

Issues; LOUD, bit heavy, requires practice to lite properly

[JoeH]

Whisperlite is my favorite, i played around with alcohol stoves in the winter, try to melt snow not worth the weight in fuel. I got the esbit stand (the one that clicks together) can use trangia or insert the tray and use diy stove and works wonders.