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Tharwood
01-06-2013, 20:23
Which is the best? AWOL millers book? The conservancy book that is available in sections? Which one?

atmilkman
01-06-2013, 20:43
Which is the best? AWOL millers book? The conservancy book that is available in sections? Which one?
I don't know which Conservancy book that you are talking about that comes in sections, but if you are talking about the Companion vs. The AT Guide that's pretty much your call. I'd get both and see which one you like better and carry that one. You could always carry coinciding parts of each and have subsequent parts mail dropped if weight is an issue.

Cookerhiker
01-06-2013, 20:53
Which is the best? AWOL millers book? The conservancy book that is available in sections? Which one?

There are 2 genres of "guide books."

1. Descriptive guides for each section - this provides detail on milepoints, landmarks, shelters, side trails, trail history & ecology. Since the AT is so well-marked and since most thruhikers don't care or need this level of detail, these guides aren't as prevalent as they were years ago. I'll tell you right now that most responses that you'll see on the thread will say that they're unnecessary.

2. Guides to services along the trail - AWOL's guide is one of these and the ALDHA-published Companion is another. These guides have GA to ME milepoints (and AWOL has a SOBO version) such as road crossings, shelters, major landmarks. But most importantly for today's hikers, they provide descriptions of services at each road crossing covering hostels & motels, restaurants, grocery stores, post offices, libraries, outfitters, and other services - all with addresses, phone numbers, and maps of the trail towns. AWOL's guide is very good because each page features a watermark-type format of the elevation profile for the stretch covered by the 2-page spread. Personally, I have the Companion (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/hiking/trail-updates/thru-hikers-companion) because buying it supports ALDHA and the ATC.

pyroman9
01-06-2013, 21:34
AWOL's book - worked great and had very useful information. Very rare to find something wrong in it.

Maddoxsjohnston
01-07-2013, 09:58
The conservancy book for the NC/TN section has lots of misinformation. stick to maps, the only specific information guidebooks provide are a description of the trail, which can be drawn by a good map-reader anyways (also, I prefer to be surprised)

Maddog
01-07-2013, 10:00
AWOL's book - worked great and had very useful information. Very rare to find something wrong in it.
+1 Maddog:D

moldy
01-07-2013, 10:19
Awol's book is better than the companion or data book. It is more up to date and has more useful information. The info in the companion and data book are more of an "official" guide that the Trails mother organizations like the Park Service, ATC and trail clubs push. Some of these organizations have an axe to grind when it comes to "don't do this and don't do that". This reflects in the content, or lack of content, in the book. If there is a place the trail clubs or the ATC don't want you to go for whatever reason they omit it from the book. They use it as a tool to control hiker behavior. Orwellian isn't it? The responsibility for the data in these books falls on the trail clubs who are supposed to view all the input from hikers and make changes each year to the books. As this is not a priority for they clubs they frequently do a poor job. That is why the book contains so many errors. There is nothing worse than paying good money for bad information. Go with awol.

Astro
01-07-2013, 10:28
Having used both, I would recommend AWOL's AT Guide. The format was much better for me, and I love the graphical elevations. Also has options of NOBO/SOBO and bound/loose leaf.

Sly
01-07-2013, 10:55
The info in the companion and data book are more of an "official" guide that the Trails mother organizations like the Park Service, ATC and trail clubs push. Some of these organizations have an axe to grind when it comes to "don't do this and don't do that". This reflects in the content, or lack of content, in the book. If there is a place the trail clubs or the ATC don't want you to go for whatever reason they omit it from the book. They use it as a tool to control hiker behavior. Orwellian isn't it?

You keep repeating that garbage.

Admittedly if there's repeated complaints about a hostel or business I'll take it out of the Companion until which time it's been corrected. It's better than endorsing a service that's actually doing the hikers a dis-service.

Orwellian controlling of hiker behavior? The are certain standards hikers should be made aware of such as LNT, not to take advantage of providers etc. We see the same old stories about hikers ripping off hostels, leaving the trash behind etc. While many times our advice falls on deaf ears, it would be negligent not to offer it.

Lyle
01-07-2013, 10:57
My Vote: Awols

Bucketfoot
01-07-2013, 11:17
Hey Sly. Better watch out for those black helicopters too! Seriously both types of guides have there advantages depending on the the type of hiking you are doing. The ATC guides are great for a one day or 4,5 day hike and the maps are great. On a long section hike like Damascus to Springer I like AWOLS Guide. Different tools for different jobs.

Tharwood
01-07-2013, 11:24
This is the other book I was refering to .... It came with two maps in a waterproof bag... 18867

Deer Hunter
01-07-2013, 11:27
Having used both, I would recommend AWOL's AT Guide. The format was much better for me, and I love the graphical elevations. Also has options of NOBO/SOBO and bound/loose leaf.

The elevation charts sold me.

max patch
01-07-2013, 11:29
Awol's book is better than the companion or data book. It is more up to date and has more useful information. The info in the companion and data book are more of an "official" guide that the Trails mother organizations like the Park Service, ATC and trail clubs push. Some of these organizations have an axe to grind when it comes to "don't do this and don't do that". This reflects in the content, or lack of content, in the book. If there is a place the trail clubs or the ATC don't want you to go for whatever reason they omit it from the book. They use it as a tool to control hiker behavior. Orwellian isn't it? The responsibility for the data in these books falls on the trail clubs who are supposed to view all the input from hikers and make changes each year to the books. As this is not a priority for they clubs they frequently do a poor job. That is why the book contains so many errors. There is nothing worse than paying good money for bad information. Go with awol.


You keep repeating that garbage.

Moldy made those accusations and more back on Dec 12 and was challenged to provide examples. We're still waiting.

max patch
01-07-2013, 11:40
This is the other book I was refering to .... It came with two maps in a waterproof bag... 18867

I carried the ATC Guidebooks on my thru and I can tell you they are not necessary for that purpose. I enjoyed reading them daily as they gave me a brief "history" of each section; however, they are not necessary to get you safely down the trail. They are very useful for section or day hikes for the trailhead info they provide.

You should carry the maps that come with the Guidebooks. I believe the best strategy for thru hikers is to buy the complete set of Guidebooks during the ATC annual sale from Thanksgiving to Christmas. Compared to the cost of the maps alone, you basically get the Guidebooks for free during the sale. I still use mine 25 years later.

Cookerhiker
01-07-2013, 13:08
.... This reflects in the content, or lack of content, in the book. If there is a place the trail clubs or the ATC don't want you to go for whatever reason they omit it from the book. They use it as a tool to control hiker behavior. Orwellian isn't it? The responsibility for the data in these books falls on the trail clubs who are supposed to view all the input from hikers and make changes each year to the books. As this is not a priority for they clubs they frequently do a poor job. That is why the book contains so many errors. There is nothing worse than paying good money for bad information. Go with awol.

Not only is this nonsense, it's also inaccurate and obfuscatory. The clubs have nothing to do with the Companion - rather, it's updated by voluntary editors who coordinate directly with ALDHA. Nearly all these editors live close to the section they're responsible for.

The clubs produce the individual sectional guides which, as I indicated in Post #3, do not, by design, cover services along the Trail. The scope of these sectional guides are trail features such as shelters, water sources, side trails, directions where needed. As such, they're only "inaccurate" when a relocation occurs and isn't incorporated until the next guide update. Unlike AWOL and the Companion, these guides aren't updated every year. Now the clubs do have a hand in the data book which is updated every year but it's not a "guide" and doesn't purport to be. It's a list of all milepoints with not a word of description. I'd surmise that AWOL uses each year's data book for his guide; I know Wingfoot did. I've never heard the data book described as "inaccurate."

Sly
01-07-2013, 13:32
Hey Sly. Better watch out for those black helicopters too! Seriously both types of guides have there advantages depending on the the type of hiking you are doing. The ATC guides are great for a one day or 4,5 day hike and the maps are great. On a long section hike like Damascus to Springer I like AWOLS Guide. Different tools for different jobs.

Yeah, most thru-hikers don't use the ATC guides which are state guides with turn by turn descriptions. On the other hand AWOL's book is more like ALDHA's Thru-Hikers Companion (since the Companion came first). Originally it was named the Companion as a companion to the maps and databook with shelter and town info, but it incorporated the databook a few years back.

rusty bumper
01-08-2013, 10:43
AWOL's guide for sure. I really liked having the elevation profiles so I could see what kind of day I had ahead of me for goin' up and down!

moldy
01-08-2013, 10:50
You keep repeating that garbage.

Admittedly if there's repeated complaints about a hostel or business I'll take it out of the Companion until which time it's been corrected. It's better than endorsing a service that's actually doing the hikers a dis-service.

Orwellian controlling of hiker behavior? The are certain standards hikers should be made aware of such as LNT, not to take advantage of providers etc. We see the same old stories about hikers ripping off hostels, leaving the trash behind etc. While many times our advice falls on deaf ears, it would be negligent not to offer it.

I like the part where he says "I'll take it out of the companion until it's corrected", it's good to know that big brother offers such protection for us hikers. Makes you wonder what other decisions he has made for us.

The companion is sort of ilke the Fox News version of the truth. They have stuff they want us to hear and stuff they would prefer that we not hear about. In these matters one would think that the thru-hikers companion would side with the hikers. Yes folks, there are places and businesses that would be happy if thru-hikers stayed away. "Dogs and Hikers Keep of the Grass". If hiking is a Creed as described in the constitution then we have places and businesses along the trail that do in fact discriminate. The 14th ammendment supposes "fair and equil treatment for all under the law" even hikers. "we don't normally take hikers here", that is what I got from a hotel clerk in Kent that I won't mention here for fear that this post will removed by big brother. There are alot of other places out there like that hotel. I would like to see the list of businesses that don't want to be listed in the companion. It's a shame that our Federal Government helps to hide these businesses. After all it's not the Park Service or the ATC that produces this book it's a private club, ALDHA. Even though all share in the profit from such books. Then again, we are all one big happy family, and this is just the rantings of a mad man, even if it falls of deaf ears, but I would be negligent not to mention it. It least with awol's book you are not sending your money to places such as this. Good " buy" cruel world, banned for life......

Cookerhiker
01-08-2013, 11:45
I like the part where he says "I'll take it out of the companion until it's corrected", it's good to know that big brother offers such protection for us hikers. Makes you wonder what other decisions he has made for us.

The companion is sort of ilke the Fox News version of the truth. They have stuff they want us to hear and stuff they would prefer that we not hear about. In these matters one would think that the thru-hikers companion would side with the hikers. Yes folks, there are places and businesses that would be happy if thru-hikers stayed away. "Dogs and Hikers Keep of the Grass". If hiking is a Creed as described in the constitution then we have places and businesses along the trail that do in fact discriminate. The 14th ammendment supposes "fair and equil treatment for all under the law" even hikers. "we don't normally take hikers here", that is what I got from a hotel clerk in Kent that I won't mention here for fear that this post will removed by big brother. There are alot of other places out there like that hotel. I would like to see the list of businesses that don't want to be listed in the companion. It's a shame that our Federal Government helps to hide these businesses. After all it's not the Park Service or the ATC that produces this book it's a private club, ALDHA. Even though all share in the profit from such books. Then again, we are all one big happy family, and this is just the rantings of a mad man, even if it falls of deaf ears, but I would be negligent not to mention it. It least with awol's book you are not sending your money to places such as this. Good " buy" cruel world, banned for life......

Do you also feel threatened by the Trilateral Commission, the United Nations, and the international bankers' conspiracy?

On another thread some time ago, you pointed out ways for hikers to cheat and steal. For instance, you recommended stealing packets from convenience stores. You recommended going to motels where free breakfast is offered for guests and easing in, pretending you were a guest to avail yourself of free food. Tell me, is that what you'd like to see in the Companion - opportunities to cheat like you've pushed?

lukabrazi
01-08-2013, 12:11
AWOLS 2013 book is shipping this week.

tagg
01-08-2013, 14:45
i know it's overkill, but i use both the ATC guides and awol's book. i'm only able to section hike, so my trips are generally in the 100-125 mile per trip range. i prefer awol's book while i'm on the trail because i find it to be more user friendly, specifically the elevation profile and the fact that there is more information on a single page than the ATC guides. however, the ATC guides have some interesting info, history, driving directions to trailheads, etc. that awol doesn't address. i know this is going to make me sound like a huge dork, but i go through the ATC guide before i leave home and make notes in the awol guide, which i take with me. i feel like i'm getting the best of both worlds, but only have to carry a few pages.

Tharwood
01-08-2013, 15:12
Makes Perfect Since Tagg...

markAT2010
01-08-2013, 15:31
I used AWOLs in 2010 for my thru-hike. I would recommend taking it apart (or buying it that way) and sending the sections in mail drops. No need to carry the profiles and info for New England while you are hiking in Virginia.

moldy
01-08-2013, 16:36
To quote a famous "robber barron" of the 20th century, "There is nothing better for business than a monopoly". For years the Thru-hiker Companion enjoyed just such a position. Everyone who sold it made money. Trail Clubs, ATC, ALDHA. Not a big market, but big enough to make some money for the organizations. The work was done by volunteers, all they had to do was front some money to a printer and distribute the book. As a non taxed non profit the purchase price was almost all profit. If you listen very carefully to this thread and listen to what the book buyers are trying to say you will see that the Thru-hikers Companion will either be changing or it will be a thing of the past. You can keep fighting that change until you are blue in the face. I would guess that less than 20,000 buyers each year will be purchasing such a guide. Now, with AWOL to compete with, some of those buyers will making a choice based on the kind of information they want. The hikers want a better book with better information and we vote with our pocket books. The Thru-hikers Companion does not have to die, they have all the advantages that a volunteer staff can give you. All they have to do is to wake up and smell the coffee.