Bleach ???

[realdeal64]

I am wondering if anybody has used bleach as a water purification method? If so is it effective ? Seems like a cost efficient way to go.

[Lone Wolf]

nasty..........

[turtle fast]

Some people do it, but in reality the effectiveness of the stuff is not up to par. Too many variables exist in the production process, storage conditions, age, etc. You are also not assured either that what you are getting is just bleach, as a bunch of other stuff that may be toxic to you might be in the mix. At that, the effectiveness of deactivating harmful organisms overall is questionable. If it were cheap and effective then most people would be doing it. Studies have shown that chlorine dioxide is much better in water purification.

[Hikes in Rain]

It works, but heaven knows, it's not the best option.

[WingedMonkey]

Just spent 10 days in cow patty filled streams. 2-3 drops per quart, sit half hour, aerate. Worked fine no taste.

[Papa D]

There is nothing at all wrong with using a few drops of bleach to purify water that requires purification. My first choice is not to purify (which is dangerous and you have to be uber picky about your source). Since this is only possible about 30% of the time (at least for me), my first choice is using drops (i.e. aqua-mira). Aqua-Mira takes less time than bleach too. But, bleach is an inexpensive and easy obtainable option too - - 2 drops of Clorox Bleach will purify a quart of water (wait 20-30 minutes) (I'd recommend 2 very skinny drops). For drinking, you can mask the taste with a little gatorade powder or Chrystal Light Lemonade. If you get Kool Aide, make sure it's pre-sweetened (yucky mistake I made once).

Also remember that the act of boiling water purifies it. Disregard wives tales and other yarns about boiling for 10 minutes. Just a rolling boil and everything you are worried about (at least in the US) is dead so it is pointless and redundant to boil water you have already treated (unless you just need it to cook with). Boiling for drinking is of course fine but it would be a precious waste of a backpacker's fuel over time.

But to answer the post, yes, bleach is ok.

[Another Kevin]

Halogenation is ineffective against some protozoa, or at least requires up to four hours contact time to do the job. Even ClO2 needs 20-40 minutes against some of the common pathogens. I'd just as soon carry a filter as carry the same weight of water down the trail waiting for chemicals to work.

If you do use bleach, get the cheap generic stuff, it has fewer additives. And make sure it's unscented. After the treatment time, if the water doesn't still noticeably smell and taste of chlorine, you didn't put in enough. (AFTER the complete treatment time, you can try to kill the taste with a citric-acid based flavoring or vitamin C.)

[Papa D]

Fliters CLOG and FREEZE and BREAK - ALL OF THEM. I don't like chemicals much either and often don't treat. I've hiked thousands of miles and never got sick. On my thru-hike, I used Iodine Based Tablets and basically just got used to the taste. Sometime in the 1990s I started using a water filter - first the PUR Hiker then the Katadyn Hiker Pro. In the last 6 or 7 years after spending tons on inserts, coffee filter contraptions and cursing frozen pumps, I've gone to Aqua-Mira or nothing at all. It's light, it works well, and is almost tasteless.

[leaftye]

I use it as a secondary treatment.

[hambone5126]

ive been using bleach for most of this past year with no problems. i met a bunch of sobos this year that turned me on to it. one alterntive i want to to try is grapefruit seed extract. a friend of mine uses it with no problems, and its actually beneficial to the body to boot. its supposed to be 10-15 drops/liter with a 30 minute wait time.

[Malto]

Yes, I used to work for them. When needed on the PCT I used two drops per liter, same as CDC reco. Want to get rid rid of bleach taste..... Blow out the bottle before drinking. It is not the taste you are tasting, it is the smell. Cheap, easy and widely avalible.

[SOBO_Pace]

I used it for exactly half of my thru (if I used it at all) 1-2 drops. I tried my best to choose good water sources. It does have a little taste but you can get it everywhere. I kept mine in a little liquid breath mint bottle and that small amount lasted a long time.

[Dogwood]

I am wondering if anybody has used bleach as a water purification method? If so is it effective ? Seems like a cost efficient way to go.

If I had nothing else, in some situations, with really foul drinking H2O that I wasn't going to boil or treat in any other way, MAYBE. How effective it is under the full range of possible North America bacteria and protozoa I don't really know. I was under the impression that it can take an inordinate amount of time in some situations to work like when the water to be treated is very cold. Lots of things can potentially effect water treatment. Overall, it can and does work for some on the AT. Wouldn't use straight bleach long term though because just as it can kill the bad bacteria or some parasites in H2O it can kill the beneficial bacteria in your body. As other have stated, JUST USE PLAIN BLEACH if going that route as scented bleach, including lemon scented bleach, has ingredients you probably don't want to ingest. Not sure all what they are putting in some bleaches these days either.

Wouldn't rely on liquid iodine for anything other than survival situations or only for short term or infrequent use too as that can be damaging to the body with long term use.

I have happily used Aqua Mira two part drops since my first thru-hike. Takes much less time in typical situations when compared to straight bleach and it covers a wider range of nasties. I drink my AM treated H20 within 30 mins. Never had an issue. However, again, lots of things can potentially effect water treatment, water quality, and one's susceptabilty to contracting some forms of bacteria and/or water borne parasites. AND, you really should examine how cost effective using bleach really is when chlorine dioxide(Aqua Mira 2 part liquid drops), which is not the same as the chlorine, sodium hypochlorite, that makes up bleach, costs about $10-15 and lasts some(many?) AT thru-hikers at least half their thru-hikes when used regularly.

If you do some searches here on WB and the net you'll find lots more info. This topic has been covered extensively here on WB.

[Drybones]

I use bleach, 1 drop/8 oz, wait 15 minutes and your good to go. I do not bother to treat small mountain streams away from people traffic. I do treat most water I get in towns.

[JansportD2]

I try to find a good spring and avoid treating the water. When I can't, I use 2 drops of plain bleach per liter and wait 30 mins. (If the water's cloudy use 3 - 4 drops; if it's cold wait longer). As a previous poster wrote, if you can't smell the chlorine after waiting 30 minutes, add 1 or 2 more drops and wait for another 20 - 30 minutes. It's important to use fresh, plain (unscented) bleach like plain Clorox. Use an opaque dropper bottle because sunlight degrades sodium hypochlorite.

Bleach is very effective against viruses and bacteria. Giardia, a protozoa, is more resistant to the chlorine that is the active ingredient in bleach. Cryptosporidium, another protozoa, is even more resistant. Chlorine dioxide (Aqua-Mira) is much more effective against both Giardia and Cryptosporidium. I should use Aqua-Mira, but I'm cheap and I usually don't treat at all.

[swjohnsey]

I use bleach when I treat which is not often. Most of the water sources along the trail do not need treating. Bleach doesn't kill giardia very well.

[prain4u]

I saw this online. It seems to fit the discussion.

http://www.doh.wa.gov/Emergencies/EmergencyPreparednessandResponse/Factsheets/WaterPurification.aspx

Here is my .02 worth.....

Treating the water with bleach or Aqua Mira is perfectly fine--and you will PROBABLY do absolutely fine with just that. (Heck, some people don't treat or filter their water at all and they do just fine).

The problem is, there are just certain little beasties lurking in this world that do not respond to chemical treatment and which need to be filtered out with a (very small micron size) filter if you are going to get them out. The bigger problem is, you can't look at a water source and see them and some of the little critters take months or YEARS to grow inside you and cause you any problems. That is why I am INCLINED to use a filter. (My decisions are also clouded by the fact that I contracted a giardia infection from untreated water when I was MUCH younger and HATED EVERY MINUTE OF IT!). So, I often go overboard on water purification.

And, as the attached article says, "If you suspect the water is unsafe because of chemicals, oils, poisonous substances, sewage or other contaminants..." bleach and treatments like Aqua Mira won't help you at all either.

I hike a lot on Isle Royale National Park--and the recommended water purification method there (per the National Park Service) is to both filter AND treat--so I am used to carry both (and using both) anyway. (Isle Royale water is potentially contaminated with eggs of the hydatid tapeworm---and boiling and filters are the only things that get rid of them).

[Ironbelly]

I carry a small eye dropper with about a 1/4 oz of bleach in it as a backup. Bleach works but isn't perfect(doesnt kill everything, but does kill enough to significantly increase your odds of not getting sick), however it can add a taste to the water but if you drink regular tap water you wouldnt hardly be able to tell the difference in the taste. 2-4 drops per liter is what is recommend by the CDC to be "safe". Bleach is by no means my prefered method, but as a backup option it takes up very little space and weight for lot of treatments worth. My prefered method is to use a sawyer squeeze filter, Weighs 3 oz.

[turtle fast]

Getting a waterborne pathogen and the associated medical costs will make a cheap less effective purification method seem silly. Once you have lived on a toilet and experienced it will make you realize its better safe than sorry.

[OhDubiousOne]

I am wondering if anybody has used bleach as a water purification method? If so is it effective ? Seems like a cost efficient way to go.

I am not sure why no one seems to mention this option, but if you have the extra money to spend steripens are great. Filters are tempermental, tablets and bleach (although they do get the job done) give an off putting taste, and both typically take some time. Plus, filters can miss viruses that are smaller than bacteria and can be really nasty to one's body. The steripen kills viruses, bacteria and all the little bad micro dudes in 48 sec for 16 ounces and 90 seconds for 32. A pen can go for 8,000 1 liter treatments before the battery needs to be replaced and they are super durable overall. Having the extra weight (3.6 oz w/batteries) is up to the individual, but I think it worth it no contest. As I said first, they are an extra cost at about $90, and another potential drawback for some is that they need a wide mouthed water container to do the sterilizing in, but having seen how great they work for groups and in solo situations they are worth mentioning. Oh, and if you are concerned with bigger particles or murky water, just use a bandanna when collecting the water initially.

Happy Hiking

[Drybones]

There have been several comments about tasting the chlorine...just wanted to say I dont taste it...3 drops per liter.

[ViolentOrgasm]

After my third Steripen gave up the ghost, I gave up on Steripens. They're too unreliable.

[swjohnsey]

Lotsa paranoia out there. If you are worried carry a dose of Flagyl which will cure giardiaosis in one shot. I probably treated my water half a dozen time on my thru with bleach the rest of the time untreated.

[Drybones]

Lotsa paranoia out there. If you are worried carry a dose of Flagyl which will cure giardiaosis in one shot. I probably treated my water half a dozen time on my thru with bleach the rest of the time untreated.

Same here...I'm more concerned with city water than mountain water...I've seen what goes into it.

[waterman1148]

The problem with Steripens is that you have NO residual treatment benefit. Stick with iodine or bleach, sodium hypochlorite(bleach) or chlorine gas is commonly used in public water systems in every municipality in this country. Sodium dioxide is a good alternative but then you have to worry about chlorite levels. Contact time for bleach should be about 70 minutes. 30 minutes for iodine. Alternate methods weekly and you'll be fine.

I AIN'T TOTIN' THAT AGAIN!

[waterman1148]

Treated (city) water in the U.S. is the most regulated and tested water on the planet.

I AIN'T TOTIN' THAT AGAIN!

[prain4u]

Getting a waterborne pathogen and the associated medical costs will make a cheap less effective purification method seem silly. Once you have lived on a toilet and experienced it will make you realize its better safe than sorry.

Been there. Done that. Hated it!

I was was lucky. I needed minimal medical treatment--mostly as a precaution. A hiking companion needed IVs and an overnight stay in a hospital. Such medical bills are much greater than the cost of a filter--and definitely more expensive than things like Aqua Mira.

Furthermore, a case of a waterborne illness will slow down your hike a WHOLE lot more than the extra weight in your pack from carrying a filter or water treatment chemicals.

I still fully believe that water purification is a big HYOH issue---treat or don't treat--filter or don't filter. It is a personal choice. My guess is that I would still be drinking my water untreated and unfiltered if I hadn't become ill (many years ago) and seen my buddy hospitalized. However, one case of giardiasis was enough to move me (proudly) to what some would call the "paranoid" side! HYOH

[Drybones]

Treated (city) water in the U.S. is the most regulated and tested water on the planet.

I AIN'T TOTIN' THAT AGAIN!

It may be, but that doesn't mean it's good. I drink water all the time without treating it while hiking but wouldn't drink the water from my kitchen faucet without filtering it...just me. Most city water sources get thier drinking water from the same place the sewer goes, I'm sure it's treated and I wont die from drinking it but I'd rather not. Some folks must agree, 20 years ago you'd never convince me some day people would be willing to pay for bottled water.

[Another Kevin]

There have been several comments about tasting the chlorine...just wanted to say I dont taste it...3 drops per liter.

If you don't smell and taste it, you're not using enough.

[waterman1148]

It may be, but that doesn't mean it's good. I drink water all the time without treating it while hiking but wouldn't drink the water from my kitchen faucet without filtering it...just me. Most city water sources get thier drinking water from the same place the sewer goes, I'm sure it's treated and I wont die from drinking it but I'd rather not. Some folks must agree, 20 years ago you'd never convince me some day people would be willing to pay for bottled water.


HYOH...but find out what kind of boots your wearing first.

I see you are from Gadsden. I am a certified grade IV water treatment plant operator in th state of Alabama...have been for years. I can assure you that NO MUNICIPALITY IN ALABAMA DIRECTLY TREATS WASTEWATER PLANT OUTFALL. If you know of some that do please call your local news channel and ADEM, they'll love to hear it. Hell, wastewater outfall is safer for you than bottled water. GET EDUCATED.

[waterman1148]

If you don't smell and taste it, you're not using enough.

I agree! Shouldn't be a strong smell or taste but you should know it's there.

[Malto]

However, one case of giardiasis was enough to move me (proudly) to what some would call the "paranoid" side! HYOH

Two cases of Giardiasis calls for CYOM............... Carry your own metronidazole (Flagyl).

[Drybones]

HYOH...but find out what kind of boots your wearing first.

I see you are from Gadsden. I am a certified grade IV water treatment plant operator in th state of Alabama...have been for years. I can assure you that NO MUNICIPALITY IN ALABAMA DIRECTLY TREATS WASTEWATER PLANT OUTFALL. If you know of some that do please call your local news channel and ADEM, they'll love to hear it. Hell, wastewater outfall is safer for you than bottled water. GET EDUCATED.

A couple of years ago I floated the Terrapin Creek down to the Coosa where I planned to camp for the first night and catch some fish for dinner. I crossed the Coosa looking for a good camp spot, went up on the hill to see what was there, coming back down I smelled something bad, heard a humming noise in the kudzu thicket and went to investigate, was a large metal grate which said sewer system. I headed back down, looked at the creek and saw what appeared to be a 20" or so pipe pumping lime green sludge up from the creek bottom and into the creek, there was a green slick as far as you could see, looked exactly like the stuff Poison Ivy was dumped into in the Batman movie. There were some very large bass feeding on whatever was coming out...I didn't bother to catch fish for dinner. I believe Gadsden and a multitude of other cities get thier water from the Coosa. I assume what was going into the water was coming from the Centre treatment station???

[Ironbelly]

On a slightly different note. It doesn't hurt to carry a 3 day course of the meds to cure yourself of giardia and other common waterborn issues. Any of these will do the trick : Effective treatments include metronidazole, tinidazole, and nitazoxanide[1 (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/#one)]. Alternatives to these medications include paromomycin, quinacrine, and furazolidone

These can all be found easily in one form or another, some are OTC.

[waterman1148]

A couple of years ago I floated the Terrapin Creek down to the Coosa where I planned to camp for the first night and catch some fish for dinner. I crossed the Coosa looking for a good camp spot, went up on the hill to see what was there, coming back down I smelled something bad, heard a humming noise in the kudzu thicket and went to investigate, was a large metal grate which said sewer system. I headed back down, looked at the creek and saw what appeared to be a 20" or so pipe pumping lime green sludge up from the creek bottom and into the creek, there was a green slick as far as you could see, looked exactly like the stuff Poison Ivy was dumped into in the Batman movie. There were some very large bass feeding on whatever was coming out...I didn't bother to catch fish for dinner. I believe Gadsden and a multitude of other cities get thier water from the Coosa. I assume what was going into the water was coming from the Centre treatment station???

Yeah I can see how that would turn you off water. If it was lime green then it wasn't sanitary sewer. Algae from there lagoons maybe. The Coosa has always been mistreated by industry, but is really quite healthy now. At least it is in Shelby county where my plant is. I don't mean to argue but a lot of people work really hard to ensure your safety. Talk to your local water department and see if you can tour their facilities. I'm sure they would be more than happy to show you around. We give tours often and I always love to ask their opinion before and after the tour.

[Drybones]

Yeah I can see how that would turn you off water. If it was lime green then it wasn't sanitary sewer. Algae from there lagoons maybe. The Coosa has always been mistreated by industry, but is really quite healthy now. At least it is in Shelby county where my plant is. I don't mean to argue but a lot of people work really hard to ensure your safety. Talk to your local water department and see if you can tour their facilities. I'm sure they would be more than happy to show you around. We give tours often and I always love to ask their opinion before and after the tour.

I wasn't meaning to throw rocks at the water guys, I'm sure they make every effort to supply us with good quality water...just giving IMO.

[leaftye]

On a slightly different note. It doesn't hurt to carry a 3 day course of the meds to cure yourself of giardia and other common waterborn issues. Any of these will do the trick : Effective treatments include metronidazole, tinidazole, and nitazoxanide[1 (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/#one)]. Alternatives to these medications include paromomycin, quinacrine, and furazolidone

These can all be found easily in one form or another, some are OTC.

The first one is also known as "fish zole", available in fish stores without a prescription.


Yeah I can see how that would turn you off water. If it was lime green then it wasn't sanitary sewer. Algae from there lagoons maybe. The Coosa has always been mistreated by industry, but is really quite healthy now. At least it is in Shelby county where my plant is. I don't mean to argue but a lot of people work really hard to ensure your safety. Talk to your local water department and see if you can tour their facilities. I'm sure they would be more than happy to show you around. We give tours often and I always love to ask their opinion before and after the tour.

I miss the Coosa. I spent many weekends canoeing and kayaking down it. We brought our own water though.

[Mr. Clean]

Hey Waterman,
I'm a class IV water system operator from Maine. Nice to meet ya.

[on_the_GOEZ]

Even after a case of G-funk, i don't treat 90% of the water on the AT. When i do, i use bleach. Cheapo here!

[waterman1148]

Hey Waterman,
I'm a class IV water system operator from Maine. Nice to meet ya.

Howdy! Hows it at the other end?

[Drybones]

I believe there may be varying sensitivity to waterborn critters and some may have developed immunity to them. I've drank water from streams all my life without treating and have never gotten sick (having boasted that I'll probably get a fatal dose next outing). When I was a kid I drank water I wouldn't let my dog drink now. I only started treating water at all when I started hiking a couple of years ago cause "it was the thing to do".

[Hairbear]

It may be, but that doesn't mean it's good. I drink water all the time without treating it while hiking but wouldn't drink the water from my kitchen faucet without filtering it...just me. Most city water sources get thier drinking water from the same place the sewer goes, I'm sure it's treated and I wont die from drinking it but I'd rather not. Some folks must agree, 20 years ago you'd never convince me some day people would be willing to pay for bottled water. yup doctors have stated that 75 percent of ear infections come from fecal matter in our public water supply ....very sad in my eyes.

[prain4u]

yup doctors have stated that 75 percent of ear infections come from fecal matter in our public water supply ....very sad in my eyes.

How did you get an ear infection in your eyes? :p

[hikerhobs]

I also use bleach 1 drop every 10. oz wait 30 minutes. no problems yet...

[sgt easy]

steripens were recently (maybe still are) on DEEP discount from sierra trading post online...they're my way to go.

[theinfamousj]

Hey Waterman,
I'm a class IV water system operator from Maine. Nice to meet ya.

I'm glad that I am not the only water treatment person around these parts anymore. Especially since I stopped working as a water quality chemist almost 10 years ago. (I changed to being a teacher so I could craft the next generation. )

Sent from my YP-GS1 using Tapatalk 2

[theinfamousj]

yup doctors have stated that 75 percent of ear infections come from fecal matter in our public water supply ....very sad in my eyes.

That is true of ear infections that follow from swimming in a public pool where babies have taken a dump in their diapers and ear infections that come from bath water (you are marinating in your own wiping skills after all), but untrue of the water as it comes out of the tap.

Sure, there are always organic solids in muni water, but they've been de-bacteriaed and de-viruses. So all you are being exposed to are dead husks of things that are no longer pathogenic. If your tap water tastes or smells like chlorine or chloramine then you know it is safe for the same reason that you want a bleach treated bottle to have a slight bleach odor.

Sent from my YP-GS1 using Tapatalk 2

[swjohnsey]

Protein!!!!!!!

[Maybe one day]

I concur with your comments about bleach...cheap and plain. I encountered a chemist on the AT that told me about the vitamin C. If there is no chlorine odor, then all of the chlorine has been consumed in killing the nasties. Only way to be certain is that chlorine remains. Your water utility uses the same rational, just in a more scientific manner by measuring chlorine residual after Cl2 injection.

[Mr. Clean]

Howdy! Hows it at the other end?

Things are great! Getting ready to put a new production well online in the spring, but until then, I've been snowshoeing daily in the back forty. Warm right now, temps in the 40's during the day, so the snow is getting very wet.
How's life on your end?

[Mr. Clean]

I'm glad that I am not the only water treatment person around these parts anymore. Especially since I stopped working as a water quality chemist almost 10 years ago. (I changed to being a teacher so I could craft the next generation. )

Sent from my YP-GS1 using Tapatalk 2

Hi! I guess maybe there are a few of us here. How's the teaching going?

[hauptman]

Bleach is a generic way of referencing the action of bleaching. Clorox is on the other hand a toxic product which doesn't belong in your drinking water. The chlorine in your "bleach" is not the same as what's in your Auamira. This is one area that this cheapskate does not skimp on.

[swjohnsey]

Yep, bleach and Aqua Mira are not the same. Both are toxic in large quanities but both work well to treat water.

[Blue Mountain Edward]

I will be using bleach to disinfect my water on the trail. Give it a hour or 2 to kill the creepy crawlies. Was using liquid iodine in 2012 and in the long run it made me ill. Was peeing my pants for a while until I flushed the iodine OD out of my system.

[Another Kevin]

Hypochlorite - essentially, bleach - is quite effective and safe when used appropriately. It has several problems:

(1) It's not stable over long periods. Let it sit for a few weeks or months, and the chlorine concentration (and hence the correct dosage) becomes uncertain.
(2) Its efficacy against Giardia is dubious at best.
(3) It's corrosive: if your bleach bottle leaks, it's likely to burn a hole in whatever it leaks onto.
(4) The products sold for laundry use often have perfume or other similar glop.

But there's no perfect method. Bleach isn't my most preferred method, but it's surely not 'poison', any more than other treatment methods are. You're trying to poison the bugs and not yourself, so chemical treatment is always a balancing act.

[jeffmeh]

The dosage makes the poison. There is arsenic present in earth, air, water, and in your blood. In normal concentrations, it poses no real risk.

In the proper concentrations, treating water with bleach poses no real risk. Another Kevin already enumerated the cons.

But yes, we are all going to die.

[Drybones]

But yes, we are all going to die.

Your right, only two things in life are certain...death and taxes....but at least death doesn't get any worse.