Etiquette for hanging food in shelters (Split from another shelter question)

[mrcoffeect]

Go to the Shelters part of this site and you should be able to find a picture for pretty much every one of them.

For me shelters are good for hanging food and chatting up other hikers but I rarely sleep in any of them. As a primarily SOBO hiker I can trade intel about trail conditions and water sources.
If I am sleeping in a shelter, i can guarantee that you won't be hanging your food in there. thats a no no

[Lone Wolf]

If I am sleeping in a shelter, i can guarantee that you won't be hanging your food in there. thats a no no

why's that?

[mrcoffeect]

what makes someone think they are going to pitch a tent, and then leave their food hanging over my head?
Im just the kinda guy to help you hang your food right over your tent.

[Lone Wolf]

what are you afraid of?

[mrcoffeect]

Nothing, I dont take uneeded risks therefore i have nothing to fear. Its only when you decide to do dumb things that you have to fear the consequences.

[Lone Wolf]

Nothing, I dont take uneeded risks therefore i have nothing to fear. Its only when you decide to do dumb things that you have to fear the consequences.

dude, folks been hangin' food bags on mouse strings in shelters on the AT for over 50 years. you worried about one falling on your head?

[max patch]

If I am sleeping in a shelter, i can guarantee that you won't be hanging your food in there. thats a no no

Have you ever even seen a shelter? Your comments do make any sense.

[mrcoffeect]

yea and for fifty years mice have been eating the food that hangs on them, Ive watched them jump right on them. I always hang my food up high and away from the shelters. i use those stupid mouse hangers for hanging my shoes from. And i never lost even a single piece of granola to a rodent. Come to think of it i have never had hole chewed in any of my gear.

[max patch]

yea and for fifty years mice have been eating the food that hangs on them, Ive watched them jump right on them. I always hang my food up high and away from the shelters. i use those stupid mouse hangers for hanging my shoes from. And i never lost even a single piece of granola to a rodent. Come to think of it i have never had hole chewed in any of my gear.

So what? Even if everything you say is true you're not the King of the shelter and you have absolutely no right to stop anyone from hanging their food there. Even if they choose to tent elsewhere.

[mrcoffeect]

So what? Even if everything you say is true you're not the King of the shelter and you have absolutely no right to stop anyone from hanging their food there. Even if they choose to tent elsewhere.
i might not be king. but if someone at shelter is doing something stupid, that could put others at risk i will do something about it. if you want to be dumb do it at your own expense, not at the expence of others.
i have zero tolerence for stupidity

[Papa D]

Have you ever even seen a shelter? Your comments do make any sense.

agree with this - - most people use mouse baffles - - I do a variety of things depending on circumstances

[rickb]

What would you do?

That is a serious question.

[mrcoffeect]

What would you do?

That is a serious question. i might take that offending food bag for a walk and hang it my self. And depending on how i feel in the morning, maybe leave a map so the owner can find his food.

[Lone Wolf]

i might not be king. but if someone at shelter is doing something stupid, that could put others at risk i will do something about it. if you want to be dumb do it at your own expense, not at the expence of others.
i have zero tolerence for stupidity

you're afraid of mice. weenie :rolleyes:

[bfayer]

i might take that offending food bag for a walk and hang it my self. And depending on how i feel in the morning, maybe leave a map so the owner can find his food.

You ever hike down south? If you ever do, I can tell you messing with someone else's gear is not going to be well received (that is an understatement).

[mrcoffeect]

You ever hike down south? If you ever do, I can tell you messing with someone else's gear is not going to be well received (that is an understatement). Yes i have, more than once. and just this year i had it out with someone in tn, who wanted to hang a garbage bag full of six different peoples food in the shelter,while they went off to tent. bottom line they decided the shelter was not the place to hang food. I don't just talk the talk. i walk the walk.

[mrcoffeect]

If food was suppose to be hung in shelters, thats where they would put food cables. some folks just have all the common sense of half a rotton strawberry.

[swjohnsey]

i might take that offending food bag for a walk and hang it my self. And depending on how i feel in the morning, maybe leave a map so the owner can find his food.

Somebody might take you for a walk if you stole their food bag.

[mrcoffeect]

well then good thing id have their food bag. cause you try that, your gonna need to pack a lunch. cause its going to be a lot longer walk than you think.

[Gray Blazer]

Yes i have, more than once. and just this year i had it out with someone in tn, who wanted to hang a garbage bag full of six different peoples food in the shelter,while they went off to tent. bottom line they decided the shelter was not the place to hang food. I don't just talk the talk. i walk the walk.


If only everybody was just like you.

[Lyle]

mrcoffeect,

While you may technically be right about whether or not food is intended to be hung in the shelters, common practice of the VAST majority of the users is that it is. It is also a pretty hard and fast, unwritten rule that you do not mess with another person's gear unless you have specific permission to do so, or they are your very trusted hiking partner.

The two statements above are FACT as it exists on the AT. If you have a problem accepting those facts, I strongly suggest that you choose to camp away from the shelters. When living within a group, YOU need to conform to what is the norm, not the other way around. If you cannot, or will not, then it is on YOU who needs to alter your plans.

My position is that I'm good either way. If the majority prefer or agree to hang food out, away from the shelter, than fine, I will too. If most folks are comfortable hanging it in the shelter, than that is fine by me. I've never, ever heard of a bear causing anyone any harm by coming into a shelter for the food. Tents, yeah a few times.

When you choose to place yourself in the position of living closely with others, flexibility is the rule.

[Lone Wolf]

I don't just talk the talk. i walk the walk.

oh brother :rolleyes: another tough guy

[hikerboy57]

i might not be king. but if someone at shelter is doing something stupid, that could put others at risk i will do something about it. if you want to be dumb do it at your own expense, not at the expence of others.
i have zero tolerence for stupidity

thank god for stupid people. they make the rest of us look better.

[mrcoffeect]

the excuse " but everybodys doing it" is still just an excuse for being lazy. granted there are times when hanging is not possible, but doesnt relieve one's own responsibilty for storing their food safely. And certainly doesn't give them the right to leave their food in close proximity of other hikers, while they go off and sleep a safe distance from their food. thats horse*****

[hikerboy57]

it's a democracy majority rules. otherwise you go pitch your tent.

[Hairbear]

i might take that offending food bag for a walk and hang it my self. And depending on how i feel in the morning, maybe leave a map so the owner can find his food.your worried about a 4 gram mouce but your going to screw with a 200 lb hikers food?i thought you said you hated stupidity?

[mrcoffeect]

this country is not a democracy. Its a constitutional republic. Its a land ruled by the laws of a constitution, not a land where mob rules.

[max patch]

He'll kick your azz and then run from a mouse. LOL

[Alligator]

Split from another shelter thread. I was going to leave it open and place a warning as it was getting heated. It's a bit of a dilemma though as the user agreement states
17. Threats are absolutely unacceptable. Anyone posting a message that contains a threat to another person or their property will immediately be moved into moderated status. The posting, and all other posts made by the offender in that thread will be deleted. Please be aware that moderators can not determine when a threat is made in jest. Neither can many users; so simply do not make them. If there is a second offense it will terminate the offender's participation on WhiteBlaze. All posts, pictures, or contributions of any sort will be deletedGiven the issue and the slight (tiny, minuscule) leeway afforded by the word might, it will be left open to perhaps have a reasonable discussion about community issues revolving around hanging food. Play nice please.

[Alligator]

A food bag is a hiker's personal property.

On the AT, I know there is the bear canister rule in GA. How about the Smokies these days? The fences are down, did they put out bear boxes? I think it is still a suggestion to use bear boxes where provided.

[hikerboy57]

this country is not a democracy. Its a constitutional republic. Its a land ruled by the laws of a constitution, not a land where mob rules.

then i would look to avoid the "mob"

[mcstick]

You will not be touching my food pal.

[rickb]

To my way of thinking, it is pretty clear that hanging food in a shelter in most areas along the AT is the norm, and that norm must be respected.

Some people might think differently, just as some people think that reserving floor space for friends or even claiming an entire shelter for their group is OK. But those people are the exception, and would need to be dealt with on a case by case basis. Sometimes its better to let the bullies or the informed good guy win. No need to stress out in the woods when an easy fix is at hand.

That said, if there are multiple register entries of bear activity in the area or such, I think that it best to give a special accommodation to those who don't want food hung in the shelter and not go all Rosa Parks over the issue. I also think it bad form to hang one's food in a shelter -- if no one else is and the shelter sleepers object -- if one is tenting it. A bag can be just as mouse proof (more so actually) hanging from a tree branch three feet off the ground at a tent site, anyway. The only reason for a tenter to hang food at a shelter is if they themselves are afraid of bear.

Most of the time these things work themselves out. Humility is the key and not getting too wrapped up when actually enjoying things-- and sometime just keeping your mouth shut. I still have bad memories stemming from one know it all insisting that I put out a fire on the basis of my campsite being in a wilderness area. He was wrong of course, and I would handle things differently now, but it was unnecessarily ugly at the time.

In then end, a lot of us (me excluded, of course) are not nearly as smart as we think we are. Just spread the love.

[barf_jay]

Let's ignore this guy who started this thread....apparently he has no idea on shelter ettiquette. His whole theory on food bags hanging in a shelter make no sense. Let's all agree to ignore any further posts from this guy into this thread.

[Lone Wolf]

Let's ignore this guy who started this thread....apparently he has no idea on shelter ettiquette. His whole theory on food bags hanging in a shelter make no sense. Let's all agree to ignore any further posts from this guy into this thread.

i agree. hanging food bags is the norm in most shelters on the AT. this guy needs to camp elsewhere

[mrcoffeect]

http://lnt.org/blog/respect-wildlife-food-storage-and-easy-steps-hanging-bear-bag seems to me that some folk on here find themselves more important than the trail they love. its not about the hikers. for me its about the health of the trail.

[WingedMonkey]

Most of the time I prefer to tent. If I'm in my tent my food is either in the tent with me or hanging nearby. I can't imagine leaving my food in a shelter that I'm not sleeping in.

I guess the same people that hang their wet clothes in a shelter then go tent might fit this category.

My stuff goes with me where I sleep. All my stuff.

[HikerMom58]

Ok... I find this topic interesting b/c it is personal to me. I wasn't so much worried about mice... whatever. I can understand someone not wanting food hung in a shelter for a rodent problem as well... But, I was terrified of bears coming into "camp" at night. We were at the Walnut Mtn. shelter in NC.

FYI.. I believed (and still do) that it's safer not to sleep near or with food, so as to not attract bears & mice.

Meanwhile back at the shelter....

Everyone, at the shelter that night, was aware of my fear. They did not mind the "Spanish Inquisition" that would be [me]- asking if they hung their food on the bear pole, b4 turning in for the night. But, I felt comfortable with everyone at the shelter.

Had I not "known" everyone at the shelter, I would NOT have felt comfortable putting any kind of pressure on anyone, staying at the shelter, to hang their food or whatever.

I may have politely asked what everyone was planning to do with their food, but that's about it. If I didn't feel comfortable at the shelter, I would have moved on.

The end of the story goes like this... In the middle of the night,:datz I realize that I hung the wrong "bag" on the bear pole. I accidentally hung a clothes bag on the pole instead of one of my food bags. Of course, I had to share.... I swear they couldn't stop laughing. Good news: NO visiting BEARS at the shelter!

[Karma13]

I accidentally hung a clothes bag on the pole instead of one of my food bags. Of course, I had to share.... I swear they couldn't stop laughing. Good news: NO visiting BEARS at the shelter!

But the next day, a snazzily dressed bear was seen roaming the streets of the nearest trail town. :D

[Berserker]

Ha ha ha…another awesome WB thread :D. It’s been a little while since I have posted, so I just gotta get in on this gem.

First off, I actually partially agree with the OP. In my opinion hanging food or anything else in a shelter, and then walking off to camp somewhere else is just bad etiquette. Either stay in the shelter or keep your crap with you.

Now the part I don’t agree with is the hostile undertones of the OP. If I decide to stay in a shelter I know that not everyone subscribes to the same etiquette I do, so I would just deal with it and not say anything. Hence why I never stay in shelters if I’m camping near one, and when I do camp near one all my stuff stays with me (sometimes the food bag gets hung from a tree away from the shelter).

[Another Kevin]

it's a democracy majority rules. otherwise you go pitch your tent.

No, it's an anarchy. Nobody rules, or everyone does, or it's rule by the loudest and most obnoxious nether orifice.

My usual practice: If others have already stored food in the shelter, I sleep elsewhere. Otherwise, I hang a bear bag. If others come in and start looking as if they're storing food in the shelter, offer: "I've already got my line in a tree, want me to hoist your food bag with mine so you don't have to heave your own line?" If they're just lazy, that solves the problem. If they answer, "No, I was planning on sleeping with my food," well, then, "I'm sorry, I hadn't been planning on sleeping with your food, so please excuse me while I go pitch a tent." No need either to tolerate stupidity or to be rude about it.

You know, that's also a pretty good way to avoid being awakened in the middle of the night by a lot of alcohol-scented guys stumbling out to puke. The guys who'll refuse to hang when someone else has done the work and the guys who will have a frat party in the shelter tend to be the same set.

I don't have a good answer for Harriman, where you aren't allowed to tent away from the shelters and they don't have bear boxes, poles, or cables. (Or privies, either. Harriman is great for day trips, but has numerous disadvantages for backpacking.)

[Malto]

There is an easy answer...... Don't stay at the shelters. Regardless of whether people hang food there are hoards of enormous scary mice with huge fangs waiting to tear your throat out.

[Berserker]

There is an easy answer...... Don't stay at the shelters. Regardless of whether people hang food there are hoards of enormous scary mice with huge fangs waiting to tear your throat out.
This is true...I have seen them and lived to tell about it.

[atmilkman]

What if one offered you a token of friendship. How can you turn this little guy down?18908

[bfayer]

I also don't particularly like hanging food in shelters, but that is not my issue.

My issue is the idea that someone thinks its OK to mess with someone else's stuff because they don't like what the other person is doing.

I don't like a lot of stuff that happens in a shelter, and food just brings in pests. But the reality is every pack in the shelter probably has some type of food or smellable it it even if someone does hang their food outside. Even if they didn't, the last hundred or so hikers that spilled raman in the shelter are reason enough for mice and other pests to visit every night.

The bottom line is hanging food in the shelter is not going to add or subtract from the mouse population. Bears are creatures of habit, if they find food even once they are coming back again and again. If the people last month left food in the shelter, you not hanging your food in the shelter is not is not going to stop a bear from visiting.

Now for the record, messing with someone else's stuff is as wrong as wrong gets.

If you don't like what someone is doing, you either talk with them respectfully and work it out, or hike on. The only time anyone gets grief from me is if I have kids with me and they start doing inappropriate stuff.

[Slo-go'en]

If your not staying in the shelter, it's probably because it's full. If it's full, there probably isn't any place to hang your food in there anyway. Okay, once in a while some lazy or late arriving hiker will tent but hang thier food in the shelter, but that doesn't happen often from what I've seen over the years.

Hagging food in the shelter is a very common practice and I've never known it to be a problem, except some times mice still get into the bags.

I do get a kick out of the hikers who hang their pack from the food hangers. Like that's gonna keep the mice off it. Hanging a pack like that just gets in the way. And hanging wet clothes in a shelter? No way thier gonna dry and they just drip water on everyones sleeping bag.

[Another Kevin]

If you don't like what someone is doing, you either talk with them respectfully and work it out, or hike on.

Yup. As I said, there's no call to be rude.

[Sarcasm the elf]

It really amazes me how many potential issues I avoid just by bringing a tent. I hike to relax, not to deal with this sort of nonsense. Since I can't comment further without invoking Godwin's law, I'll just leave it at that.

[HikerMom58]

If you don't like what someone is doing, you either talk with them respectfully and work it out, or hike on. The only time anyone gets grief from me is if I have kids with me and they start doing inappropriate stuff.

Ok.. bfayer. You bring up another point that seems to be appropriate to discuss on this thread. Everyone's "buttons are pushed" at different levels & for different reasons.

When you say, "the only time anyone gets grief from me is when I have kids with me and they start doing inappropriate stuff"- I particularly like this example you gave because kids would be present. What would that "gets grief from me", look like?

Even tho you would be terribly upset and insulted by someone's behavior- would you "teach" respect & try to work it out or hike on? Would your behavior be dictated by highly charged emotions?

I'm coming from the thought - we can't control what other people do but we can control ourselves. :-?

[CarlZ993]

Lackadaisical attitudes toward proper food storage increases food storage problems for everyone. Especially at shelters and close-quarter campgrounds/sites. The question is how you address the problem. And how far you push the issue.

A few imported California Park Bears would definitely create a paradigm shift on food storage along the AT. :)

[hikerboy57]

it's just amazing that I never see these arguments over food bags at shelters. only here on line. somehow everyone manages to get along.

[aficion]

A shelter is likely to be the one place with the highest concentration of wild animals trying to get into your food. Add to that the threat of disrespectful hikers messing with it and one quickly concludes that a shelter is the last place one might want to leave unattended food. What am I missing here.

[max patch]

it's just amazing that I never see these arguments over food bags at shelters. only here on line. somehow everyone manages to get along.

Yeah, last year someone puffed out his chest and said that if he heard anyone talking on a cell at a shelter he was going to physically remove the phone from the person and turn it off. Right.

[aficion]

A shelter is likely to be the one place with the highest concentration of wild animals trying to get into your food. Add to that the threat of disrespectful hikers messing with it and one quickly concludes that a shelter is the last place one might want to leave unattended food. What am I missing here.

Besides the right punctuation?

[bfayer]

Ok.. bfayer. You bring up another point that seems to be appropriate to discuss on this thread. Everyone's "buttons are pushed" at different levels & for different reasons.

When you say, "the only time anyone gets grief from me is when I have kids with me and they start doing inappropriate stuff"- I particularly like this example you gave because kids would be present. What would that "gets grief from me", look like?

Even tho you would be terribly upset and insulted by someone's behavior- would you "teach" respect & try to work it out or hike on? Would your behavior be dictated by highly charged emotions?

I'm coming from the thought - we can't control what other people do but we can control ourselves. :-?

Hiker Mom, grief from me means I stop being polite very quickly, and if what is being done is illegal I have no problem calling the authorities.

I am not talking about people being annoying, I am talking about much more serious kinds of things. For example if a couple decided it was a good idea to have sex in front of other people in the shelter, that's inappropriate (Sad, but I have seen it happen), if I am by myself, I leave. If kids are present, I do something. Other examples include selling or trying to sell drugs, continuously inappropriate language in front of the kids, and significant racist or discriminatory behaviour. You get the idea, I have a rather low tolerance for that kind of stuff around children. This is not just while hiking by the way. its everywhere else too. The way I see it is, if you wouldn't put up with it in public in your neighborhood, why would you on the trail?

The good news is the vast majority of hikers are good people and are just as protective of kids as I am, so it is a rare situation where any intervention is required on my part.

Some things in life require you to make a stand, and when they happen, its not about going along to get along, it about doing the right thing.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[ChinMusic]

A few imported California Park Bears would definitely create a paradigm shift on food storage along the AT. :)

More likely a paradigm shift affecting those coddled bears.

[Don H]

Yeah, last year someone puffed out his chest and said that if he heard anyone talking on a cell at a shelter he was going to physically remove the phone from the person and turn it off. Right.

An appropriate response to that would be "lighten up Francis!".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OnpkDWbeJs

[Berserker]

Everyone's "buttons are pushed" at different levels & for different reasons.

I like what Hikermom says about buttons pushed at different levels and for different reasons. The problem is that the trail and shelters are for public use, and there are a whole range of folks that use them from the teetotaler LNT people all the way to the ones who don’t care and trash everything with no regard for the rules. It’s a problem with society in general, and there is no solution to it.

Do I despise hitting a shelter that I plan to stay at only to find some dude in it that has trashed the place, and seems to not give a crap about anyone else? Well of course I do…it freakin sucks. But unfortunately that’s the way things are so I can get my undies in a bunch about it or I can just move on. I chose to just move on.

And to apply this to the discussion here, in my opinion a person’s possessions, including their food bag, should be in their care at all times to the maximum extent reasonably possible when in public. So for example, if someone puts their pack down at a shelter to run down to the water source to grab water, that’s ok. However, hanging a food bag or any other possessions in the shelter overnight and then jetting to a campsite ain’t ok.

For the record I will say that I lean more towards the teetotaler LNT type, and anything that involves trashing a place, using poor etiquette, or just being an arse in general just ain’t cool…dang that felt good to get that off my chest.

[Drybones]

i might take that offending food bag for a walk and hang it my self. And depending on how i feel in the morning, maybe leave a map so the owner can find his food.

Some people feel they have a right to protect thier property...you may not feel anything in the morning.

[Drybones]

your worried about a 4 gram mouce but your going to screw with a 200 lb hikers food?i thought you said you hated stupidity?

Pretty good Bear(LOL)...glad to see you're on your toes taday.

[Pedaling Fool]

Hanging food in a shelter does not attract mice. Eating at a shelter does attract mice; and I don't mean eating in a shelter, just eating at the picnic table is what attracts the mice.

Also, the shelter itself attracts them, because it's shelter; in the same way coral reef (or man-made reef) attracts many organisms as opposed to barren sandy bottom, because it provides shelter.

If you notice food hung in shelters isn't stolen by mice, provided one uses a mouse guard and doesn't place a bag against a beam. However, leave some food in your pack and I guarantee it'll be gone in the morning.

[Drybones]

I hate walking into a bar with a brawl going on and not being able to decide which side I throw the chair at...and run.

[Slo-go'en]

one quickly concludes that a shelter is the last place one might want to leave unattended food. What am I missing here.

Unattended food at a shelter is abandoned food which is not good, but happens. Usually its 5 pound bags of rice or oatmeal packets. Even the rodents leave that stuff alone which tells you something...

Other wise, there is always enough people around a shelter to scare or beat off the critters - except the little ones which are annoying, but not very dangerous.

Really, how many of those making a fuss have actually spent much (or any) time at shelters? And please, don't play cop out in the woods for minor moral offenses.

[Tharwood]

You could have stored it in the basement...hahahahahahahah..

[Tharwood]

That's at Hikermom about Walnut Mtn shelter...

[BirdBrain]

I consider Whiteblaze as one of the best sources for practical information on hiking the AT. I am amazed at the way this debate is going. Prior to seeing this thread, I would have thought it would be the norm to hang a bear bag. I am left with two possible conclusions: 1) The "experts" are wrong. 2) AT hikers could give a rats ass about bear bag etiquette.

Please understand: I am not an authority. I am not here to claim I know anything. I am here to learn. I just feel like someone just proved that the moon is really made of cheese. Nothing I am reading here makes sense. I am no fool though. I must give deference to those with more experience.

[Pedaling Fool]

I consider Whiteblaze as one of the best sources for practical information on hiking the AT. I am amazed at the way this debate is going. Prior to seeing this thread, I would have thought it would be the norm to hang a bear bag. I am left with two possible conclusions: 1) The "experts" are wrong. 2) AT hikers could give a rats ass about bear bag etiquette.

Please understand: I am not an authority. I am not here to claim I know anything. I am here to learn. I just feel like someone just proved that the moon is really made of cheese. Nothing I am reading here makes sense. I am no fool though. I must give deference to those with more experience.Believe it or not, but your food is safer hung in a shelter than in a tree. Far more food is stolen from a tree then in a shelter.

[Drybones]

Believe it or not, but your food is safer hung in a shelter than in a tree. Far more food is stolen from a tree then in a shelter.

I can believe that, hung my food the first night, in a tree, the bag was on the ground in the morning and the mice had a feast, slept with it every night thereafter.

[Sarcasm the elf]

I consider Whiteblaze as one of the best sources for practical information on hiking the AT. I am amazed at the way this debate is going. Prior to seeing this thread, I would have thought it would be the norm to hang a bear bag. I am left with two possible conclusions: 1) The "experts" are wrong. 2) AT hikers could give a rats ass about bear bag etiquette.Please understand: I am not an authority. I am not here to claim I know anything. I am here to learn. I just feel like someone just proved that the moon is really made of cheese. Nothing I am reading here makes sense. I am no fool though. I must give deference to those with more experience.
Both of you conclusions are partially correct. The traditional bear safety advice that is taught in scouts and other organizations is usually based on precautions necessary in Grizzley bear country. On the east coast we only have black bears which are quite different in size and behavior. Since Blackbears are almost always scared of humans, the issue is more about unattended food left where animals can easily grab it than it is about your attended food attracting bears to you. Given that most folks can't hang a bear bag correctly anyway, theyre probably not much more effective then the mouse hangers.

Then again, here in the northeast most shelters have bearboxes, so this is all a non-issue. ;)

[BirdBrain]

Believe it or not, but your food is safer hung in a shelter than in a tree. Far more food is stolen from a tree then in a shelter.

Safer or more secure. I will concede that there are less variables in hanging a bag in a shelter and it is easier to do so, but safer? It is harder to secure a bear bag outside, but if done properly, it is safer.

At the risk of being beat up like Mr Coffee (or whatever his name is) this debate appears to be between lazy people and people interested in etiquette. If I hold a door open for someone who has their arms full, it is not because I am afraid of that person. There is no healthy animal on the east coast that I am afraid of. They have reason to be scared of us though. If I hang a bear bag, it will be out of respect for others and it is a safe way to do so. I am not scared of a mouse or bear or raccoon, etc.

Come on. Be honest. Hanging food in shelters is done for convenience, not safety. There is no way a bag hanging a few feet from objects is safer than a bag hanging 15' or 20' from objects.

[Moose2001]

i have zero tolerence for stupidity REALLY! Then don't look in the mirror!

[max patch]

Come on. Be honest. Hanging food in shelters is done for convenience, not safety. There is no way a bag hanging a few feet from objects is safer than a bag hanging 15' or 20' from objects.

I'm not gonna beat you up, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that here in GA bears get a whole lotta more food bags out of trees than they do from shelters (probably none).

I don't care what Mr Coffee does with his food. The issue with Mr Coffee is that he has said there is "no way" anybody will hang food in a shelter if he is sleeping in it. And if someone does he will move it.

[atmilkman]

I'm not gonna beat you up, but I can tell you with 100% certainty that here in GA bears get a whole lotta more food bags out of trees than they do from shelters (probably none).

I don't care what Mr Coffee does with his food. The issue with Mr Coffee is that he has said there is "no way" anybody will hang food in a shelter if he is sleeping in it. And if someone does he will move it.


Pretty much what I got out of the original post. Don't know where everything else came from after that. Correction - yes I do.

[ChinMusic]

Come on. Be honest. Hanging food in shelters is done for convenience, not safety. There is no way a bag hanging a few feet from objects is safer than a bag hanging 15' or 20' from objects.
Sure it is safer at the shelter. Not as safe as mine, right next to me in my tent. It is all about possession.

That food on my back is in my possession.
That food in my tent is def in my possession.
That food in the tree is a jump ball, if bear can get to it, it will (often they can).
That food hung in the shelter has strong possession characteristics and most bears will not bother it..........most.

[HikerMom58]

Hiker Mom, grief from me means I stop being polite very quickly, and if what is being done is illegal I have no problem calling the authorities.

I am not talking about people being annoying, I am talking about much more serious kinds of things. For example if a couple decided it was a good idea to have sex in front of other people in the shelter, that's inappropriate (Sad, but I have seen it happen), if I am by myself, I leave. If kids are present, I do something. Other examples include selling or trying to sell drugs, continuously inappropriate language in front of the kids, and significant racist or discriminatory behaviour. You get the idea, I have a rather low tolerance for that kind of stuff around children. This is not just while hiking by the way. its everywhere else too. The way I see it is, if you wouldn't put up with it in public in your neighborhood, why would you on the trail?

The good news is the vast majority of hikers are good people and are just as protective of kids as I am, so it is a rare situation where any intervention is required on my part.

Some things in life require you to make a stand, and when they happen, its not about going along to get along, it about doing the right thing.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2


I agree with everything you said... I would do the same thing. I thought that's what u meant. There's that extreme behavior- & everything in between.

We were staying at James Fry Shelter in PA. A couple showed up and tented near us. They were newbies, fresh on the trail. She was talking on her cell phone wayyy past the "considerate" time of evening. She was talking REALLY loud. We could hear every single word on her conversation.:eek:

But just like HB said, on here, that behavior would become a REALLY big deal to some.
In reality, while we all found it annoying, it was just considered as part of the trail experience on the "busy" AT.

It's a crap shoot as to how someone could have handled that situation but treating her respectfully was never in question. We thought about "speaking the truth", in love, the next morning, but we felt she would have felt really bad, after she realized she didn't have proper "shelter etiquette".

It's not nearly as bad, in reality, as we seem to think it is, talking about this stuff on here. It's a give and take, all the time.

You are right about needing to take a stand on certain behavior. It's best even, in that situation, to remain calm but it's hard when people seem so inconsiderate. I have a tolerance level that seems to "peak" in certain situations. When that happens, I have to "fight", myself, to stay in control of myself. I feel so much better when I do remain in control but that's different than going along to get along. :)

[JAK]

The shelter mice lurking on this thread are having a great laugh at all of us.

[Hosaphone]

Safer or more secure. I will concede that there are less variables in hanging a bag in a shelter and it is easier to do so, but safer? It is harder to secure a bear bag outside, but if done properly, it is safer.

...

Come on. Be honest. Hanging food in shelters is done for convenience, not safety. There is no way a bag hanging a few feet from objects is safer than a bag hanging 15' or 20' from objects.


Sure it is safer at the shelter. Not as safe as mine, right next to me in my tent. It is all about possession.

That food on my back is in my possession.
That food in my tent is def in my possession.
That food in the tree is a jump ball, if bear can get to it, it will (often they can).
That food hung in the shelter has strong possession characteristics and most bears will not bother it..........most.

I guess this depends on whether we're talking about the safety of the food, or personal safety (ie avoiding getting mauled by a hungry bear).

Sleeping with your food is basically like telling the bear, "You want it? You're gonna have to fight me for it."

Given the behavior of black bears, that's usually a pretty effective strategy. It makes your food safer, but certainly increases your chances of having a bad encounter as opposed to hanging it in a tree far away.

Odorproof bags (Opsak, etc) are always a good idea either way.

[Train Wreck]

If Mr. Coffee is going to prance off into the woods with my food bag, I respectfully ask that he pack out my trash also.

[HikerMom58]

The shelter mice lurking on this thread are having a great laugh at all of us.

I think there's more than lurking shelter mice that are having a great laugh. ..... :D

[rickb]

Anyone ever get any grief about cooking and eating on the shelter floor -- aka kitchen prep area?

[aficion]

Hanging food in a shelter does not attract mice. Eating at a shelter does attract mice; and I don't mean eating in a shelter, just eating at the picnic table is what attracts the mice.

Also, the shelter itself attracts them, because it's shelter; in the same way coral reef (or man-made reef) attracts many organisms as opposed to barren sandy bottom, because it provides shelter.

If you notice food hung in shelters isn't stolen by mice, provided one uses a mouse guard and doesn't place a bag against a beam. However, leave some food in your pack and I guarantee it'll be gone in the morning.

The mice are already there. It is their home. The idea of attracting them is moot. They are hungry little acrobats who defeat mouse guards on a daily basis. I've watched it happen enough times that I won't expose my food to them again. hyoh

[HikerMom58]

Anyone ever get any grief about cooking and eating on the shelter floor -- aka kitchen prep area?

No, I haven't, but the new shelters in the Smokey's have been built with a seperate food prep/eating bench area... it's awesome!

[Lone Wolf]

A shelter is likely to be the one place with the highest concentration of wild animals trying to get into your food. Add to that the threat of disrespectful hikers messing with it and one quickly concludes that a shelter is the last place one might want to leave unattended food. What am I missing here.

shelters are for newbies, scardy cats and lazy types. tear 'em down

[Leanthree]

Mice will also be at shelters, regardless of food, because the humans scare away their predators like snakes and foxes.

The food doesn't help but they aren't going anywhere even with the most perfectly hung food and no spills.

[Sly]

Not going to read the entire thread but I agree with the OP. You shouldn't be hanging your food unattended in a shelter for someone else to take responsibility Find a tree or sleep with it in your tent.

[Malto]

shelters are for newbies, scardy cats and lazy types. tear 'em down

Lone wolf you are WAY off base....... If shelters were for scary cats then there wouldn't be mice, there would be fat scardy cats.

[Rasty]

A shelter is likely to be the one place with the highest concentration of wild animals trying to get into your food. Add to that the threat of disrespectful hikers messing with it and one quickly concludes that a shelter is the last place one might want to leave unattended food. What am I missing here.

shelters are for newbies, scardy cats and lazy types. tear 'em down

I hate it when your right. Shelters are really kind of silly when your "camping".

[Deer Hunter]

You will not be touching my food pal.


Same here.

[Sly]

Hanging food in a shelter does not attract mice. Eating at a shelter does attract mice; and I don't mean eating in a shelter, just eating at the picnic table is what attracts the mice.

Also, the shelter itself attracts them, because it's shelter; in the same way coral reef (or man-made reef) attracts many organisms as opposed to barren sandy bottom, because it provides shelter.

If you notice food hung in shelters isn't stolen by mice, provided one uses a mouse guard and doesn't place a bag against a beam. However, leave some food in your pack and I guarantee it'll be gone in the morning.

Mice are every where. I've camped well off the trail along the ridge and had mice trying to get in my tent.

[HikerMom58]

shelters are for newbies, scardy cats and lazy types. tear 'em down

Don't forget to add they are helpful in getting a break from bad weather, a place to tell where you are on the trail. (trail marker) A place to "camel up" on water, have social interactions & even build a warm fire in a fire ring if u want too. It's kinda like a home away from home for some people. They are a "welcome sight" for some, after putting down some big miles. Just givin u a lil support buddy! :) You can still wish that they would all be torn down but I thought you may have missed some reasons they exist.

[Sly]

You will not be touching my food pal.

Then take responsibility for it. If you're not willing to be there protecting it why should anyone else?

[aficion]

shelters are for newbies, scardy cats and lazy types. tear 'em down

Would say Amen.... but then I,d have to share the wide open elbow room with em.

[BirdBrain]

A shelter is likely to be the one place with the highest concentration of wild animals trying to get into your food. Add to that the threat of disrespectful hikers messing with it and one quickly concludes that a shelter is the last place one might want to leave unattended food. What am I missing here.

You pretty much have it summed up, but I would add a few things.
Some hikers think it is okay to tell other hikers what to do.
Some hikers don't know how to hang a bear bag.
Some hikers think a bear can jump 15' to get said bear bag.
Some hikers are too lazy to hang a bear bag.
Some hikers don't care if bears get human food and see no problem with that.
This hiker will be sleeping in his bivy, under his tarp, away from said lazy hikers, and hanging a bear bag.

[Lone Wolf]

Don't forget to add they are helpful in getting a break from bad weather, a place to tell where you are on the trail. (trail marker) A place to "camel up" on water, have social interactions & even build a warm fire in a fire ring if u want too. It's kinda like a home away from home for some people. They are a "welcome sight" for some, after putting down some big miles. Just givin u a lil support buddy! :) You can still wish that they would all be torn down but I thought you may have missed some reasons they exist.those reasons are invalid. they're crutches

[Sly]

Just givin u a lil support buddy! :) You can still wish that they would all be torn down but I thought you may have missed some reasons they exist.


He can rant and rave, wish all he wants and others can agree, but it's not going to happen. On a trail as crowded as the AT they lessen impact.

[aficion]

Shelters aggregate mice and people. Good for the trail. Good for me.

[Lone Wolf]

On a trail as crowded as the AT they lessen impact.

nah. don't agree

[hikerboy57]

He can rant and rave, wish all he wants and others can agree, but it's not going to happen. On a trail as crowded as the AT they lessen impact.
i agree.i prefer to tent anyway, but they also provide a destination point.i generally keep track of where i am in relation to shelters and campsites.ironically when i was in maine last year it was much harder to find tent space than shelter space.seems like everyones already learned a shelter is a lousy place to sleep

[bfayer]

Then take responsibility for it. If you're not willing to be there protecting it why should anyone else?

So does that mean its okay to mess with it or stash it somewhere without telling the owner?



Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[Sly]

So does that mean its okay to mess with it or stash it somewhere without telling the owner?



You tell me. What if he hung it directory over, or next to your tent, and then set up his tent 100 feet away?

[HikerMom58]

those reasons are invalid. they're crutches

Ok... so then why do we teach our kids (and I've always known) that our 3 basic needs are food, water and shelter? I guess you could be really tough or really dumb to deny yourself one of our basic needs. ;) Got ya buddy!! Don't mess with HM!! ;) Just kiddin!


He can rant and rave, wish all he wants and others can agree, but it's not going to happen. On a trail as crowded as the AT they lessen impact.

I didn't agree with his statement but I thought he forgot some things that shelters are "good" for... you can add this one to the list. I agree with you. :)

[bfayer]

You tell me. What if he hung it directory over, or next to your tent, and then set up his tent 100 feet away?

Not the same thing. We are talking about one food bag hanging with all the others in the shelter. Not someone deliberately hanging their bag above you in some other location all by itself.

Like I said earlier in the thread, I would prefer no food bags hanging in the shelter, but the reality is people are going to do it whether I like it or not. What difference is one more?

My point was that it's not OK to mess with someone else's gear just because they do something you don't like. Its the same as keying someone's car because they parked in front of a fire hydrant. Its just not right.

[BirdBrain]

Next!!!!! Trying to make sense of all of this is like when you stop banging your head against the wall. It feels so good when you stop. Moving on to saner discussions.

[aficion]

It is just not right to hang your food over someone's head who does not want it there. Rude!

[Malto]

Next!!!!! Trying to make sense of all of this is like when you stop banging your head against the wall. It feels so good when you stop. Moving on to saner discussions.

Does banging your head explain the birdbrain? :O

[Northern Lights]

If I am sleeping in a shelter, i can guarantee that you won't be hanging your food in there. thats a no no

You must not sleep in a lot of shelters then. Alot of people do it. I normally sleep in my tent unless it is severe weather. When I have slept in a shelter and had my food with me. I always asked if anyone minded and absolutely no one ever said yes.

[BirdBrain]

Does banging your head explain the birdbrain? :O

Could be. 1 of only a few comments I can agree with on this thread. :) Had to stick around for the rhetorical rebut. Gone for real this time.

[bfayer]

It is just not right to hang your food over someone's head who does not want it there. Rude!

I agree but its still not OK to mess with it. Being rude is one thing, screwing with other peoples stuff is on a whole nother level.

Can I cut someone's guitar strings if they play to loud? (rhetorical)

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[Train Wreck]

I agree but its still not OK to mess with it. Being rude is one thing, screwing with other peoples stuff is on a whole nother level.

Can I cut someone's guitar strings if they play to loud? (rhetorical)

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Heck yeah, just pitch that sucker into the closest ravine. Especially if he's singing Kumbayah.

[aficion]

I agree but its still not OK to mess with it. Being rude is one thing, screwing with other peoples stuff is on a whole nother level.

Can I cut someone's guitar strings if they play to loud? (rhetorical)

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

No, not advocating retribution. I do think it would be okay to object and see if the offender will comply with a reasonable request. If not I'd choose moving on over escalation.

[atmilkman]

Heck yeah, just pitch that sucker into the closest ravine. Especially if he's singing Kumbayah.

Especially if he's singing Kumbaya.

[Train Wreck]

Especially if he's singing Kumbaya.

Toss the miserable wretch down the hill after his guitar :D

[Sly]

I agree but its still not OK to mess with it. Being rude is one thing, screwing with other peoples stuff is on a whole nother level.




If I asked you not to leave your food bag over my head when you weren't even staying in the shelter, and you refused, sorry, there could be problems.

[bfayer]

I agree, that's all I was getting at. Although I am not sure I would move on over a hanging food bag. If I moved on every time someone did something that annoyed me, I would have to find another planet to live on :) There is enough other stuff that happens out there to worry about stuff hanging in shelters.

[bfayer]

Sly,

I see where you are coming from, but unless I was the only one in the shelter, and that was the only bag I just don't see it as something to get worked up about. I still wouldn't mess with someone else's gear over it though.

[mrcoffeect]

the incedent that i was referring to yesterday, everyone that was sleeping in the shelter that night had already bear baged their food. a group of six weekend hikers set up tents near the shelter. then right before dark,one of the men brought a garbage bag with at least 40lbs of food over to the shelter to hang inside on one of those "mouse hangers. well the weight of the bag broke the fiirst hanger he tried to hang it on. thats when i asked "is that all food you got there" when he replied yes, I let him know that the shelter was not the proper place to hang their food . if that makes me a jerk , then i guess thats what i am. But im fully prepared to live with that.

[Sly]

the incedent that i was referring to yesterday, everyone that was sleeping in the shelter that night had already bear baged their food. a group of six weekend hikers set up tents near the shelter. then right before dark,one of the men brought a garbage bag with at least 40lbs of food over to the shelter to hang inside on one of those "mouse hangers. well the weight of the bag broke the fiirst hanger he tried to hang it on. thats when i asked "is that all food you got there" when he replied yes, I let him know that the shelter was not the proper place to hang their food . if that makes me a jerk , then i guess thats what i am. But im fully prepared to live with that.

That's a perfect example and of course more so than a single hiker, but just the same.

However, many hikers staying in the shelter will hang their food from the rafters and unless there's food hanging cables, bear poles, boxes available asking them not to will probably fall on deaf ears.

[aficion]

I agree, that's all I was getting at. Although I am not sure I would move on over a hanging food bag. If I moved on every time someone did something that annoyed me, I would have to find another planet to live on :) There is enough other stuff that happens out there to worry about stuff hanging in shelters.

Part of the trail's appeal to me is it is somewhat like another planet with respect to where most of us carry out our daily lives. On the trail it is quite simple to just move on. In fact it is precisely what most of us are out there to do.

[mrcoffeect]

That was my point . alot of people know the right thing to do but decide not to do it. but not if you ask them vigorously

[mrcoffeect]

And lone wolf I would like to thank you. your posts yesterday made me feel like i was on the trail.... with a frigin gnat flyin around my head. something of no great siginfigance but still a pain in the ass.

[Pedaling Fool]

Safer or more secure. I will concede that there are less variables in hanging a bag in a shelter and it is easier to do so, but safer? It is harder to secure a bear bag outside, but if done properly, it is safer.

At the risk of being beat up like Mr Coffee (or whatever his name is) this debate appears to be between lazy people and people interested in etiquette. If I hold a door open for someone who has their arms full, it is not because I am afraid of that person. There is no healthy animal on the east coast that I am afraid of. They have reason to be scared of us though. If I hang a bear bag, it will be out of respect for others and it is a safe way to do so. I am not scared of a mouse or bear or raccoon, etc.

Come on. Be honest. Hanging food in shelters is done for convenience, not safety. There is no way a bag hanging a few feet from objects is safer than a bag hanging 15' or 20' from objects.
Safer/more secure....I'm not making a distinction between the two. The fact is that your food is more likely to be stolen from an animal if hanging in a tree, period. And yes, it just so happens that it is more convienent, luckily in life sometimes that happens where convenience and safety come together.

The mice are already there. It is their home. The idea of attracting them is moot. They are hungry little acrobats who defeat mouse guards on a daily basis. I've watched it happen enough times that I won't expose my food to them again. hyohThat was my point in my first post here. But the mice (or bears) do not get at properly hung food in a shelter; the mice can't get at it and bears are too afraid to come into a shelter full of people.

If they did people wouldn't hang their food in the shelter and we'd be hearing tons of stories about people getting their food stolen in a shelter. The ONLY time we hear of food getting stolen in a shelter is when someone inadvertently leaves food in their pack, lying on the floor.

[Pedaling Fool]

Mice are every where. I've camped well off the trail along the ridge and had mice trying to get in my tent.Yes, they are everywhere, but not usually in the numbers at a shelter. In all my hiking and biking trips I've never had a mouse come into my tent, but I did have one climb over top one time, but that was in proximity to a shelter. And I always sleep with my food, another case where convienence and safety come together ;)

[aficion]

I have watched mice in shelters defeat the mouse baffles by several different methods. One lowered himself bottom first until his feet touched the can. He then simply let go and free fell over the edge of the tipping can and landed on the food bag. Another jumped from one line onto an adjacent food bag. A third jumped from the wall successfully. There are mice in the woods too, not as many, and not as acrobatic.

[Drybones]

This thread is really bugging me...I can't decide which side I'm on...maybe you all have a valid point. I don't know how I would react to the situation, probably depends on which side of the sleeping bag I got up on that day.

[aficion]

I am on the side of mice.
They're little people too.
Besides it takes too many
to make a proper stew.

[Pedaling Fool]

I have watched mice in shelters defeat the mouse baffles by several different methods. One lowered himself bottom first until his feet touched the can. He then simply let go and free fell over the edge of the tipping can and landed on the food bag. Another jumped from one line onto an adjacent food bag. A third jumped from the wall successfully. There are mice in the woods too, not as many, and not as acrobatic.I'm not saying it can't happen, especially if one puts their food too close to a wall/beam as seems the case in your second scenario. However, the fact is that it almost never happens compared to animals getting at food in a tree.

Do a search on stolen food and you'll see the vast majority are in cases where food is stolen from a tree. From what I've seen, the vast majority of people hang food in the shelters when no bear cables are provided and it's never been an issue.

[Rasty]

This thread is really bugging me...I can't decide which side I'm on...maybe you all have a valid point. I don't know how I would react to the situation, probably depends on which side of the sleeping bag I got up on that day.

I'm ambivalent about it because I have slept in a shelter only four times in my life. It has never been my idea of camping. Others will disagree but hiking and camping for me involves getting away from walls and crowded places. The water source argument for shelters does not make sense because the shelter was placed next to water source, not the other way around. The shelters environmental impact is longer lasting then campsites which can be more easily returned to a natural state. Even the sterilized earth from fire rings can be replaced with the use of a shovel. Just my opinion but 95% of the problems / annoyance is at shelters.

[Train Wreck]

I am on the side of mice.
They're little people too.
Besides it takes too many
to make a proper stew.

Don't be a big old sissy
'Bout where I hang my food
No need to throw a hissy
Or get all mean and rude.

[mrcoffeect]

well then i guess all the food bag cables, poles and boxes are put there by the atc. just in case all the good spots for properly storeing your food in the shelter are all taken.

[Deadeye]

Love to eat them mousies
Mousies what I love to eat
Bite they little heads off
Nibble on they tiny feet
- Kliban

[Train Wreck]

Love to eat them mousies
Mousies what I love to eat
Bite they little heads off
Nibble on they tiny feet
- Kliban

You BEAST. :p

[HikerMom58]

Could be. 1 of only a few comments I can agree with on this thread. :) Had to stick around for the rhetorical rebut. Gone for real this time.

Come back... LOL!! ;)


well then i guess all the food bag cables, poles and boxes are put there by the atc. just in case all the good spots for properly storeing your food in the shelter are all taken.

I don't think many people really think that hanging your food in the shelter is a good idea, for obvious reasons. They either hang it on a bear pole, cable or put it in a box or hang it themselves in a tree. If they don't like those options- they sleep with their food.

Have you ever heard of someone "hiding" their food on the ground near a shelter? Have you ever heard of someone throwing their food bags on top of the shelter roof? I have. :eek: Nothing should surprise you. Just sayin... :)

[Lone Wolf]

And lone wolf I would like to thank you. your posts yesterday made me feel like i was on the trail.... with a frigin gnat flyin around my head. something of no great siginfigance but still a pain in the ass.

come now, don't be so cranky and mean son :cool:

[Pedaling Fool]

dude, folks been hangin' food bags on mouse strings in shelters on the AT for over 50 years. you worried about one falling on your head?Like LW said, this has been done for years; it's nothing new. They were there when I thru-hiked the state of Maine back in '81 and there was no such thing as a bearcable or box, at least not what I remember.

The only time I heard of something being stolen was when food was left in a pack. Here's a website that talks about these mouse devices http://sectionhiker.com/mouse-mobiles/

[Lone Wolf]

Like LW said, this has been done for years; it's nothing new. They were there when I thru-hiked the state of Maine back in '81 and there was no such thing as a bearcable or box, at least not what I remember.

The only time I heard of something being stolen was when food was left in a pack. Here's a website that talks about these mouse devices http://sectionhiker.com/mouse-mobiles/
coffee dude is new to hikin' so he don't understand

[Lone Wolf]

Like LW said, this has been done for years; it's nothing new. They were there when I thru-hiked the state of Maine back in '81 and there was no such thing as a bearcable or box, at least not what I remember.

The only time I heard of something being stolen was when food was left in a pack. Here's a website that talks about these mouse devices http://sectionhiker.com/mouse-mobiles/
coffee dude is new to hikin' so he don't understand

[Train Wreck]

come now, don't be so cranky and mean son :cool:

He's just tired from lugging 40 lbs of hiker food off into the woods

[Different Socks]

Okay, this might be covered already: Down south during the height of the thru hiking season there will be shelters over run and loaded with hikers getting to the Big K. If a hiker gets there and the shelter has no room to accomodate them, then they will next to it or near by. They are not obligated to hang their food in the woods just b/c there was no more room to bed down in the shelter.
What kind of ass are you?

[aficion]

Okay, this might be covered already: Down south during the height of the thru hiking season there will be shelters over run and loaded with hikers getting to the Big K. If a hiker gets there and the shelter has no room to accomodate them, then they will next to it or near by. They are not obligated to hang their food in the woods just b/c there was no more room to bed down in the shelter.
What kind of ass are you?

What kind of gentleman are you?

[HikerMom58]

That's a good thread survey question... who hangs their food in a shelter? Better yet... how many real hikers hang their food in a shelter? On a bad weather day I would say 100% do but other than that... ????

[HikerMom58]

What kind of gentleman are you?

I have to agree with aficion on this one...
Different Socks take the "higher road".... this is yo mama talkin...:D

[Lone Wolf]

That's a good thread survey question... who hangs their food in a shelter? Better yet... how many real hikers hang their food in a shelter? On a bad weather day I would say 100% do but other than that... ????

real hikers don't use shelters

[aficion]

That's a good thread survey question... who hangs their food in a shelter? Better yet... how many real hikers hang their food in a shelter? On a bad weather day I would say 100% do but other than that... ????
You can include me in the % of people that never hang food in a shelter regardless of the weather.

[Lone Wolf]

I have to agree with aficion on this one...
Different Socks take the "higher road".... this is yo mama talkin...:D

different socks is right

[Pedaling Fool]

That's a good thread survey question... who hangs their food in a shelter? Better yet... how many real hikers hang their food in a shelter? On a bad weather day I would say 100% do but other than that... ????Maybe it would be an interesting survey, but actually most hikers on the AT not here on WB.

Most shelters don't have bear cables or boxes, but nearly all of them have mice prevention devices. If you can hang food on a bad weather day, then what's wrong with hanging on a good day?

[Alligator]

Quit the personal attacks folks.

[aficion]

Quit the personal attacks folks.

Okay. Sorry.

[bfayer]

That's a good thread survey question... who hangs their food in a shelter? Better yet... how many real hikers hang their food in a shelter? On a bad weather day I would say 100% do but other than that... ????

OK, I'll admit it, I have, even though I said I said I don't like food in the shelters. When its dark and you are cold and wet, those little strings with the tuna cans look pretty good.

I don't know if I qualify as a real hiker though. I'm just a lowly weekend section/day hiking scout leader :)

[Malto]

There are so many different issues mixed into this discussion. Food protection from bears, food protection from mice, hiker etiquette, and do real hiker use shelters.

For me it's simple. I have only used shelters in the winter, I'm not concerned about bears much on the AT because they are hunted in most areas (most of my hiking has been in the Sierra which is a whole different issue.) which leaves the mice. If I'm staying in a shelter in the winter I will use the little ropes. Since I'm there alone, I have never had any complaints. :)

[T.S.Kobzol]

ok. so here is my take :-)

If someone just took my food bag and carried it into the woods without talking to me then that would be a problem. First I would ask them to bring it back to me. :-)

I am always open for discussions and for discussing opinions. We could discuss what someone considers an issue and see what comes out of it.

Depending on what mood I am in I might just pick up some of the persons property and carry it into the woods (if I am in really bad mood) and I will be ready for the confrontation or for the constructive debate afterwards.

Luckily, unless I'm with a group that wants to stay in a shelter, I don't usually sleep in the shelter. I never hang my food anyway. It's my pillow.

[HikerMom58]

Maybe it would be an interesting survey, but actually most hikers on the AT not here on WB.

Most shelters don't have bear cables or boxes, but nearly all of them have mice prevention devices. If you can hang food on a bad weather day, then what's wrong with hanging on a good day?

Ha Ha!! Your first statement may very well be true. That's what makes it so fun! :)

Well, hanging food in the shelter isn't the worst place to hang ur food, in my opinion, I'm not opposed to it at all. I'd rather hang my food up and away from where I'm sleeping, tho.
I agree that mice and bears are creatures of habit. Just b/c you eliminate all food sources & food smells. The mice will still come out to chew on ur tp and clothes etc.. I love tent!! (just throwing that in there) Bears will still come around to where they successfully scored some goodies, previously, even if there's nothin around, this time.

It's all a matter of preference. It's just been my experience while actually hiking that everyone seems to like to hang their food. I don't believe I've ever been at a shelter that didn't have a place to hang food other than inside the shelter. Everyone at the shelters I've stayed at, hung their food on the bear cable. I've had a "sheltered" hiking experience so far... :sun other hikers have been really cool and nice! :)

[Astro]

OK, I'll admit it, I have, even though I said I said I don't like food in the shelters. When its dark and you are cold and wet, those little strings with the tuna cans look pretty good.

I don't know if I qualify as a real hiker though. I'm just a lowly weekend section/day hiking scout leader :)

Hey, I personally would never think of a scout leader as "lowly". You are investing your free time in in developing men and future leaders.

[HikerMom58]

real hikers don't use shelters

LW.. if you removed shelters from the trail, you are just removing an option for real hikers.... they would all be FORCED to carry their shelter on their backs. It's one of our basic needs.... Water, food and shelter.

[Lone Wolf]

. they would all be FORCED to carry their shelter on their backs. It's one of our basic needs.... Water, food and shelter.

correct. so gettin' rid of shelters is a good thing

[Tuckahoe]

I dont hang my food, I prefer to sleep with it, and I do not leave it unattended.

[bfayer]

Hey, I personally would never think of a scout leader as "lowly". You are investing your free time in in developing men and future leaders.

Thanks for the kind words. We hope we are. Sometimes it feels more like herding cats (although most of the scouts don't try to eat shelter mice)

[HikerMom58]

correct. so gettin' rid of shelters is a good thing

Ok.. we are getting somewhere then. :)

U are opposed to any, of our basic needs, being provided for, on the trail, once u have decided to take the "plunge" to be a real thru hiker. So that's why taking any kind of "help" along the way, in any form, is considered a weakness. Therefore, "they" are a weenie. U are a tough former Marine and when the going gets tough- the tough get going. I think I'm gettin inside ur head.... :D No bags of apples hanging in trees or coolers of cold drinks hanging out on the trail for this dude. Got ya!! ;)

[Schooley]

+ 1 on what Berserker wrote.

[MDSection12]

One of the shelters in MD (Ed Garvey) has an enclosed second level complete with a door... It's pretty common to see tent campers come up and drop their food up there... I never even thought about getting upset. Maybe next time I'll see if they have any Pop-Tarts. :rolleyes:

[atmilkman]

Luckily, unless I'm with a group that wants to stay in a shelter, I don't usually sleep in the shelter. I never hang my food anyway. It's my pillow.
Bagels and honeybuns make a good pillow.

[Drybones]

I have to agree with aficion on this one...
Different Socks take the "higher road".... this is yo mama talkin...:D

com'on mom...the boys are just hav'n fun...no one's lost an eye yet.

[Drybones]

Bagels and honeybuns make a good pillow.

I use those extra large, fluffy marshmellows...have to watch out for those danged women tho, they keep steal'n um to make smores.

[Drybones]

I think I'm gettin inside ur head.... :D ;)

I recommend you take the maps and guide book...you could get lost in there.

[Train Wreck]

I recommend you take the maps and guide book...you could get lost in there.

Would make a memorable road trip :)

[HikerMom58]

com'on mom...the boys are just hav'n fun...no one's lost an eye yet.

I know, I know.... boys will be boys!! But, how do u know if the "boys" are laughing? Ha Ha! :eek: Plus, would u call someone an ass, if you were talking face to face? I think it would be "toned down" 2 more like- you can't be serious, dude. I could be wrong..

[Train Wreck]

I know, I know.... boys will be boys!! But, how do u know if the "boys" are laughing? Ha Ha! :eek: Plus, would u call someone an ass, if you were talking face to face? I think it would be "toned down" 2 more like- you can't be serious, dude. I could be wrong..

If someone were to snatch somebody else's food bag from its hanging place and march off with it, I'm pretty sure some strong language is likely to follow

[HikerMom58]

Would make a memorable road trip :)

LOL! I think it skeered him to death... I don't think most people like other people gettin inside their head! I'm just trying to understand where he's coming from.....

[HikerMom58]

If someone were to snatch somebody else's food bag from its hanging place and march off with it, I'm pretty sure some strong language is likely to follow

True dat.... but did he march off with their food while "they" watched? I can see that turning physical.

[Train Wreck]

True dat.... but did he march off with their food while "they" watched? I can see that turning physical.

He started out by boasting he would do just that.

[Drybones]

:eek: Plus, would u call someone an ass, if you were talking face to face? ..

My wife calls me names worse than that all the time...to my face!!....and I still love her.

[rickb]

the incedent that i was referring to yesterday, everyone that was sleeping in the shelter that night had already bear baged their food. a group of six weekend hikers set up tents near the shelter. then right before dark,one of the men brought a garbage bag with at least 40lbs of food over to the shelter to hang inside on one of those "mouse hangers. well the weight of the bag broke the fiirst hanger he tried to hang it on. thats when i asked "is that all food you got there" when he replied yes, I let him know that the shelter was not the proper place to hang their food . if that makes me a jerk , then i guess thats what i am. But im fully prepared to live with that.

In that context I think you were right to speak up.

[Drybones]

In that context I think you were right to speak up.

I tend to agree.

[Praha4]

I use the Ursack and double bag all my food and trash and never have any problems with rodents getting into my food bag in my tent. I also don't sleep in shelters so I don't have to listen to wanna-be Drill SGTs (nothing against real NCO's who I respect immensely as a vet myself) who think they know it all on the trail. Hang ur food on the mousetrap lines from the shelter ceiling and you should not have a problem. Follow simple trail sanitation guidelines and you won't have a problem.

[HikerMom58]

He started out by boasting he would do just that.


Ok then, And to that- I would say- dude, you can't be serious!! Because truthfully, I would not call him an ass if we were having this hypothetical conversation face to face. I would, however, be tempted to call him that if I was not face to face. Hence, the gentleman comment comes around & I had to agree.
I don't mean to judge different socks for sayin that to him but for me, I would refrain. Like I said, you don't know if it's working for the other person. I wouldn't have worked for me. That's why I said, "It's yo mama talkin to ya". I should have said it's HikerMom talkin to ya. Maybe totally different from his own mama.

I thank Drybones for making that point! :)

I understand what ur sayin Drybones... I hear ya.

[Rasty]

Ok then, And to that- I would say- dude, you can't be serious!! Because truthfully, I would not call him an ass if we were having this hypothetical conversation face to face. I would, however, be tempted to call him that if I was not face to face. Hence, the gentleman comment comes around & I had to agree.
I don't mean to judge different socks for sayin that to him but for me, I would refrain. Like I said, you don't know if it's working for the other person. I wouldn't have worked for me. That's why I said, "It's yo mama talkin to ya". I should have said it's HikerMom talkin to ya. Maybe totally different from his own mama.

I thank Drybones for making that point! :)

I understand what ur sayin Drybones... I hear ya.

Guys call each other names all the time! We are from Mars...remember the book!

[Tuckahoe]

Ok.. we are getting somewhere then. :)

U are opposed to any, of our basic needs, being provided for, on the trail, once u have decided to take the "plunge" to be a real thru hiker. So that's why taking any kind of "help" along the way, in any form, is considered a weakness. Therefore, "they" are a weenie. U are a tough former Marine and when the going gets tough- the tough get going. I think I'm gettin inside ur head.... :D No bags of apples hanging in trees or coolers of cold drinks hanging out on the trail for this dude. Got ya!! ;)

But arent we as hikers supposed to be responsible for our own needs once we hit the trail? Isnt carrying our own shelter one of our most basic responsibilities to ourselves?

And speaking only as a navy brat... Marines are always Marines and never former.

[bfayer]

True dat.... but did he march off with their food while "they" watched? I can see that turning physical.

Especially south of I64.

[Schooley]

What is "real" hiker?

[Schooley]

I never slept on a shelter, by the way, for no reason in particular. I have ate lunch in many a shelter, kicked back and relaxed in a shelter and used them as a reference point along the trail.

[Tharwood]

Id say keep you hands off anyones gear that isnt your own and mind your on buisness..And remember " Some people cant be pleased, no matter what you do".....

[HikerMom58]

Guys call each other names all the time! We are from Mars...remember the book!

I remember Rasty... I never read it all the way thru tho.. :) You have made an excellent point. :)


But arent we as hikers supposed to be responsible for our own needs once we hit the trail? Isnt carrying our own shelter one of our most basic responsibilities to ourselves?

And speaking only as a navy brat... Marines are always Marines and never former.

Yes Tuck, it is everyone's own responsibility. I think having shelter's on the trail gives hikers options for dealing with that basic need. Many, don't think it's wise to "count" on those AT shelters tho. I agree. :) I thought about the point you just made, when I typed former Marine. I know he will always be a Marine- no one can ever take that away from him. I respect and deeply appreciate his service. I meant to convey that he served our country as a Marine, earlier in his life... thanks for the correction. :) Thanks for your service as well.


Especially south of I64.

There might be some truth to that statement.... :)

[Tuckahoe]

I respect and deeply appreciate his service. I meant to convey that he served our country as a Marine, earlier in his life... thanks for the correction. :) Thanks for your service as well.

No thanks for me, I never served. I'm just the son of a sailor.

[BirdBrain]

Okay, I am back for one more swing.

My problem with this discussion is the dishonesty designed to prove a point. A properly hung bear back is exponentially more safe from animal intrusion than one hung in a shelter. To say otherwise, would be to suggest that those that have perfected the system were wasting their time. I can understand people being human and saying I prefer to hang it in a shelter and would rather not go through the trouble of hanging it properly. However, it does not pass the straight face test to suggest that a properly hung bear bag is easier for animals to get into than if it was hung in a shelter. That is like saying it is easier to slam dunk on a 15' rim than it is on a 5' rim.

Let's see some honesty in the discussion. It is honest to say:
1) Don't touch my food.
2) Don't tell me what to do.
3) I'm tired and don't want to hang a bear bag.
4) I feel more secure if the food is closer.
5) I don't know how to hang a bear bag or am not good at it or I don't have the proper technique or I can't find a suitable location.

It is not honest (or you are not in possession of the facts) to say the food is safer and more secure in a shelter.
I will stick around to see if I see any honesty.

[Pedaling Fool]

Okay, I am back for one more swing.

My problem with this discussion is the dishonesty designed to prove a point. A properly hung bear back is exponentially more safe from animal intrusion than one hung in a shelter. To say otherwise, would be to suggest that those that have perfected the system were wasting their time. I can understand people being human and saying I prefer to hang it in a shelter and would rather not go through the trouble of hanging it properly. However, it does not pass the straight face test to suggest that a properly hung bear bag is easier for animals to get into than if it was hung in a shelter. That is like saying it is easier to slam dunk on a 15' rim than it is on a 5' rim.

Let's see some honesty in the discussion. It is honest to say:
1) Don't touch my food.
2) Don't tell me what to do.
3) I'm tired and don't want to hang a bear bag.
4) I feel more secure if the food is closer.
5) I don't know how to hang a bear bag or am not good at it or I don't have the proper technique or I can't find a suitable location.

It is not honest (or you are not in possession of the facts) to say the food is safer and more secure in a shelter.
I will stick around to see if I see any honesty.
Honestly, the animals do not mess with the foodbags in shelters. The mice can't because of the mouse-exclusion devices and the bears and other animals are too afraid to come into a shelter full of people.

Do a search on here and you'll see there are vastly more threads on food being stolen out of a tree then a shelter. If it didn't work people wouldn't do it; food is one of the most important things on the trail, if animals got to them in the shelter people would stop storing the bags on the mouse lines. And as has already been mentioned this method of food storage predates bear cables/boxes on the AT.

It's practically an AT tradition http://sectionhiker.com/mouse-mobiles/

[HikerMom58]

No thanks for me, I never served. I'm just the son of a sailor.

Oh Ok.. :)

"Honestly, the animals do not mess with the foodbags in shelters. The mice can't because of the mouse-exclusion devices and the bears and other animals are too afraid to come into a shelter full of people."


John... if that were true then there would be no reason for shelters to close due to problem bear activity. Some bear loose their fear of humans. When that happens, they have to kill them or take them far away from the area but not before trying to put the fear of humans back in them.

[bfayer]

Honestly, the animals do not mess with the foodbags in shelters. The mice can't because of the mouse-exclusion devices and the bears and other animals are too afraid to come into a shelter full of people.

Do a search on here and you'll see there are vastly more threads on food being stolen out of a tree then a shelter. If it didn't work people wouldn't do it; food is one of the most important things on the trail, if animals got to them in the shelter people would stop storing the bags on the mouse lines. And as has already been mentioned this method of food storage predates bear cables/boxes on the AT.

It's practically an AT tradition http://sectionhiker.com/mouse-mobiles/

I think the point he is missing is that food bags hanging in shelters are never left alone. In my opinion food left by itself, no matter where it is, is more at risk than food surrounded by people.

Now all things being equal, with no people around, he is 100% correct.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[Pedaling Fool]

I think the point he is missing is that food bags hanging in shelters are never left alone. In my opinion food left by itself, no matter where it is, is more at risk than food surrounded by people.

Now all things being equal, with no people around, he is 100% correct.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
Is that your concern BirdBrain?

[Prop Blast]

Okay, I am back for one more swing.

My problem with this discussion is the dishonesty designed to prove a point. A properly hung bear back is exponentially more safe from animal intrusion than one hung in a shelter. To say otherwise, would be to suggest that those that have perfected the system were wasting their time. I can understand people being human and saying I prefer to hang it in a shelter and would rather not go through the trouble of hanging it properly. However, it does not pass the straight face test to suggest that a properly hung bear bag is easier for animals to get into than if it was hung in a shelter. That is like saying it is easier to slam dunk on a 15' rim than it is on a 5' rim.

Let's see some honesty in the discussion. It is honest to say:
1) Don't touch my food.
2) Don't tell me what to do.
3) I'm tired and don't want to hang a bear bag.
4) I feel more secure if the food is closer.
5) I don't know how to hang a bear bag or am not good at it or I don't have the proper technique or I can't find a suitable location.

It is not honest (or you are not in possession of the facts) to say the food is safer and more secure in a shelter.
I will stick around to see if I see any honesty.

BirdBrain, You are a wise owl. You have made the definitive comment on this subject. I can't imagine it being said any better! Still, I have a feeling this thread will live on simply for the sake of argument.

[aficion]

I've had my properly hung food invaded by mice in shelters while in attendance, though asleep. The commotion woke me up and I enjoyed watching the little trapeze artists at work but not their handiwork on my food bag. I have hung bear bags dozens of times with zero loss. YMMV

[Pedaling Fool]

I don't want to argue with anyone. I'm just stating a fact. Food hung properly in a shelter does not attract mice, they are already there. And animals don't get at food hung in a shelter.

I'm not agitated, just working through a problem with BB.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Birdbrain, as I mentioned before, the purpose of the bearbag system they "perfected" was meant for hiking out west in Grizzley country. The idea behind it was to hang the food far away in order to remove food smells from the campsite since they might attract dangerous animals. The purpose of keeping the food out of reach of the animals was secondary. The vast majority of hikers can't hang a bear bag properly, and even when they are properly hung the are less effective at keeping the food out of reach then you seem to believe.

On the East coast, the threat from animals is much lower, and unless you are in an area inhabited by a bear that has been repeatedly fed by humans the odds of being attacked by an animal because I'd your food is virtually zero.

Does hanging your food in the shelter keep it better protected than a bear bag hung by the average hiker? I couldn't say either way, but I can tell you that your faith in bear bags for the purpose of keeping food away from animals is overly optimistic.

FWIW, the only foolproof way I know to keep your food safe at a shelter is a bearbox, or to carry a bear canister.

Edit: For the record, I do agree with your etiquette argument to an extent, I am only disagreeing with your stated belief about how effective bear bags are.

[BirdBrain]

Details are being left out. People are reacting to the blunt words of Mr Coffee. Their reaction is being tainted by their feelings. These reactions are persuading them to leave out important details. It is proper etiquette to be aware of feelings other than their own. Not everyone likes food being hung in the shelter. I don't need a tough guy threatening me to make me do the polite thing. I agree, that type of approach might persuade me to hang the food over his head. If I am alone, I might hang it in a shelter. If I am in unknown company, I am going to always hang a bear bag. It is proper etiquette. It appears AT hikers care only about themselves and their little world of convenience and that is sad.

It is also a fact that mice are not the only animal after the food. It is also a fact that the strings and objects are designed to deter mice. I am not sure what other people have in their states, but we have racoons in Maine that are not shy. They will stand on your face to get at food. Now I am not scared of racoons. I have trapped and ate them. Life is just so much easier if the food is away from camp and is properly hung using a system that will thwart the attempts of all critters, not just mice.

[Slo-go'en]

A properly hung bear back is exponentially more safe from animal intrusion than one hung in a shelter. To say otherwise, would be to suggest that those that have perfected the system were wasting their time.

You are correct and no one is saying your wrong.

But key words are "properly hung" and that is rarely the case when people hang food in trees. Heck, I know better and rarely hang properly. The best I hope for is to keep the smaller critters out of it. If a bear really wants my food, there is a good chance he'll get it one way or another. The other thing which could be a factor is hanging food high up in a tree can let the wind carry the food smells far and wide, attacting critters who might not otherwise have noticed.

But as many of us have been saying, in 90% of the shelters along the AT, hanging food there is not an issue. In the few cases where it is, bear cables or steel boxes are provided.

[hikerboy57]

Details are being left out. People are reacting to the blunt words of Mr Coffee. Their reaction is being tainted by their feelings. These reactions are persuading them to leave out important details. It is proper etiquette to be aware of feelings other than their own. Not everyone likes food being hung in the shelter. I don't need a tough guy threatening me to make me do the polite thing. I agree, that type of approach might persuade me to hang the food over his head. If I am alone, I might hang it in a shelter. If I am in unknown company, I am going to always hang a bear bag. It is proper etiquette. It appears AT hikers care only about themselves and their little world of convenience and that is sad.

It is also a fact that mice are not the only animal after the food. It is also a fact that the strings and objects are designed to deter mice. I am not sure what other people have in their states, but we have racoons in Maine that are not shy. They will stand on your face to get at food. Now I am not scared of racoons. I have trapped and ate them. Life is just so much easier if the food is away from camp and is properly hung using a system that will thwart the attempts of all critters, not just mice.

racoons can actually pull a bear bag up from the branch its hung from. dont underestimate critters.and mr gault, i have seen mice jump from rafters driectly onto the bags, circumventing the tin cans.
i will say that hanging your food in a shelter and then tenting away from the shelter is so wrong its downright funny.

[BirdBrain]

racoons can actually pull a bear bag up from the branch its hung from. dont underestimate critters.and mr gault, i have seen mice jump from rafters driectly onto the bags, circumventing the tin cans.
i will say that hanging your food in a shelter and then tenting away from the shelter is so wrong its downright funny.

This is constructive information. This is why I read these blogs. Some of the other posts have been honest too. Some have just been down right laughable and uneducated.

[Rasty]

Guys call each other names all the time! We are from Mars...remember the book!

I remember Rasty... I never read it all the way thru tho.. :) You have made an excellent point. :)


But arent we as hikers supposed to be responsible for our own needs once we hit the trail? Isnt carrying our own shelter one of our most basic responsibilities to ourselves?

And speaking only as a navy brat... Marines are always Marines and never former.

Yes Tuck, it is everyone's own responsibility. I think having shelter's on the trail gives hikers options for dealing with that basic need. Many, don't think it's wise to "count" on those AT shelters tho. I agree. :) I thought about the point you just made, when I typed former Marine. I know he will always be a Marine- no one can ever take that away from him. I respect and deeply appreciate his service. I meant to convey that he served our country as a Marine, earlier in his life... thanks for the correction. :) Thanks for your service as well.


Especially south of I64.

There might be some truth to that statement.... :)

I'm a guy so I only read the cover!:D

[Deadeye]

I use a bear canister, now I feel left out.

[HikerMom58]

I'm a guy so I only read the cover!:D

LOL!! I've got ADD so I can't get all the way through it & then can't remember what I just read! :D

[BirdBrain]

LOL!! I've got ADD so I can't get all the way through it & then can't remember what I just read! :D

I think it had something to do with baking a pie and sending it to Maine.

[HikerMom58]

I think it had something to do with baking a pie and sending it to Maine.

Ahh.... sneaky, BB. ;) I LOVE Maine!! I hung out on the beach in Wells,ME in the summer, growing up. I also went to a church camp in Naples, ME. It was on the beautiful- Long Lake. :) I'll have to get out a map to see where Brunswick ME is....

[Drybones]

racoons can actually pull a bear bag up from the branch its hung from. dont underestimate critters.and mr gault, i have seen mice jump from rafters driectly onto the bags, circumventing the tin cans.
i will say that hanging your food in a shelter and then tenting away from the shelter is so wrong its downright funny.

I'd put a racoon against a bear any day for creating trouble. The boys and I were camping on an island in Philpot Lake in VA, left the camp for a moment with food on the table, came back and followed a trail of bread slices to the other end of the island that a coon dropped carrying off our food, had one eat a candle, a cigar, and chew the heck out of a plastic coffee cup I'd been drinking hot chocolate from when we camped at the Lower Shoals shelter on the Pinhoti.

[hikerboy57]

I'd put a racoon against a bear any day for creating trouble. The boys and I were camping on an island in Philpot Lake in VA, left the camp for a moment with food on the table, came back and followed a trail of bread slices to the other end of the island that a coon dropped carrying off our food, had one eat a candle, a cigar, and chew the heck out of a plastic coffee cup I'd been drinking hot chocolate from when we camped at the Lower Shoals shelter on the Pinhoti.they are incredible critters, can untie buckles, straps, strong agile. yes much more of a nuisance than bears

[bfayer]

I'd put a racoon against a bear any day for creating trouble. The boys and I were camping on an island in Philpot Lake in VA, left the camp for a moment with food on the table, came back and followed a trail of bread slices to the other end of the island that a coon dropped carrying off our food, had one eat a candle, a cigar, and chew the heck out of a plastic coffee cup I'd been drinking hot chocolate from when we camped at the Lower Shoals shelter on the Pinhoti.

I watched one climb up on a picnic table and open the zippers on a day pack and start pulling things out. It was like watching a Disney cartoon. But it was from across the road, like most animals as soon as it saw me coming, it beat feet out of there. Most animals have enough common sense to stay a safe distance away from people (mice not included), so I am not particularly worried about bigger critters in shelters full of people. I just hate the mice.

[Drybones]

they are incredible critters, can untie buckles, straps, strong agile. yes much more of a nuisance than bears

My dad told me they had a coon as a pet when he was young, got into the cellar and opened every jar of canned goods they had.

[Malto]

And then there are the birds at the Grand Canyon. I will put them against any critter. Bear hang, they call that a bird feeder.

I have seen the most pathetic attempts at bear hangs on the AT. There is no doubt that food is safer in shelter on the mice hangs than most of the hangs I've seen. Plus, I'd we want honesty here if mice hangs aren't used then I suspect most hikers would sleep with their food. That was by far the most popular storage place on the PCT. Mice are the only reason that I wouldnt use my food bag as a pillow in shelters on the AT.

[Pedaling Fool]

racoons can actually pull a bear bag up from the branch its hung from. dont underestimate critters.And racoons have been seen climbing the steel poles in SNP.


and mr gault, i have seen mice jump from rafters driectly onto the bags, circumventing the tin cans.

Then the bag was too close to a beam/wall. If mice could jump on all foodbags, then getting food stolen in a shelter would happen all the time, just as it does if you leave food in your pack in the shelter. I say again, the stories of foodbags being infiltrated by mice in a shelter are so very, very uncommon; I can't even remember hearing of it happening, but I've heard many times the, "Oh *****!!!..." in the morning when someone realizes they forgot some food in their pack.


i will say that hanging your food in a shelter and then tenting away from the shelter is so wrong its downright funny.I really don't have an opinion on that part of this discussion. Personally I always keep my food in my tent with me. All I'm saying is that food properly hung in a shelter does not attract mice, it's safe from infiltration and it's basically an AT tradition.

I would tend to agree (I guess I haven't really thought about it) that tenters should not hang their food in a shelter, but the OP was complaining about it attracting mice and that is wrong, that's all I'm talking about.

[atmilkman]

they are incredible critters, can untie buckles, straps, strong agile. yes much more of a nuisance than bears
When we used to car camp we would bungee cord the cooler shut to the picnic table. Worked for a long time till they started chewing through the cord. Then we started pad locking swingset chains around them. That's still working. Untill they learn to go to Home Depot and get keys made.

[atmilkman]

My dad told me they had a coon as a pet when he was young, got into the cellar and opened every jar of canned goods they had.
My uncle had one that could drink a six-pack of beer. He was always the hit of the party, till one time everbody started giving him beer and he was way over his limit. Went off into the woods and was never seen again.

[Sarcasm the elf]

When we used to car camp we would bungee cord the cooler shut to the picnic table. Worked for a long time till they started chewing through the cord. Then we started pad locking swingset chains around them. That's still working. Untill they learn to go to Home Depot and get keys made.

I wouldn't put it past those furry little bastards. :eek:

[Drybones]

My uncle had one that could drink a six-pack of beer. He was always the hit of the party, till one time everbody started giving him beer and he was way over his limit. Went off into the woods and was never seen again.

Yeah...that happened to a few friends of mine...never know what a pig roast and a keg of beer will get you.

[hikerboy57]

And racoons have been seen climbing the steel poles in SNP.


Then the bag was too close to a beam/wall. If mice could jump on all foodbags, then getting food stolen in a shelter would happen all the time, just as it does if you leave food in your pack in the shelter. I say again, the stories of foodbags being infiltrated by mice in a shelter are so very, very uncommon; I can't even remember hearing of it happening, but I've heard many times the, "Oh *****!!!..." in the morning when someone realizes they forgot some food in their pack.

I really don't have an opinion on that part of this discussion. Personally I always keep my food in my tent with me. All I'm saying is that food properly hung in a shelter does not attract mice, it's safe from infiltration and it's basically an AT tradition.

I would tend to agree (I guess I haven't really thought about it) that tenters should not hang their food in a shelter, but the OP was complaining about it attracting mice and that is wrong, that's all I'm talking about.
i agree that properly hung food will not attract mice and that they are already there. most people do not properly hang even in the shelter it seems its hung really just to keep it off the ground.everyone just uses whatever hangers are there already or just hang it from a nail. and yes, thats why mice can jump onto the bags.
i avoid shelters and sleep with my food.

[Slo-go'en]

Coons are the only other animal with opposing thumbs like we have. They are also very cleaver. They can get into just about anything they set thier minds to.

I had a crow fly off with a 2 dollar granolla bar I had just bought at Big Medeow in the Shanendoahs. I had set it down on a picnic table and then turned around to talk to some hikers I knew. When I turned back around, the crow was flying off with it. I chased him over a hill and found about a dozen granolla / power bar wrappers scattered around.

I've had Canadian Jay's swoop down from a tree and try to grab food out of my hand.

It's not just bears and mice you have to look out for...

[mountainman]

i might not be king. but if someone at shelter is doing something stupid, that could put others at risk i will do something about it. if you want to be dumb do it at your own expense, not at the expence of others.
i have zero tolerence for stupidity

Zero tolerence can bring unneeded confrontations. I find that the AT requires much tolerence.

[BirdBrain]

I've had Canadian Jay's swoop down from a tree and try to grab food out of my hand.

We call them Whiskey Jacks up here.

[T.S.Kobzol]

If the shelter is full then there is not enough hangers from which to hang the food. That means that others will still hang it wherever available albeit improperly. Their accounts will skew the statistics or properly hung food.


i agree that properly hung food will not attract mice and that they are already there. most people do not properly hang even in the shelter it seems its hung really just to keep it off the ground.everyone just uses whatever hangers are there already or just hang it from a nail. and yes, thats why mice can jump onto the bags.
i avoid shelters and sleep with my food.

[Different Socks]

I have to agree with aficion on this one...
Different Socks take the "higher road".... this is yo mama talkin...:D

I only said that b/c the guy was acting like if anyone, and basically he inclined "anyone" attempts to hang food in a shelter, he will move it for them. I'm sorry but I would not want to stay in a shelter with a person that thinks they should only follow his rules about how to spend the night at one. I mean if he doesn't like it when people hang food in a trail shelter, what about the people with stinking cigarette smoke, or the ones that sip coffee/tea/cocoa in their bags before bed or after awaking? What about the smell of food on a pack? Does he make you hang that from a tree or cables also?

[Different Socks]

If the shelter is full then there is not enough hangers from which to hang the food. That means that others will still hang it wherever available albeit improperly. Their accounts will skew the statistics or properly hung food.

You've never used a shelter where more than one food bag hung from the lines?
All my nights on the AT, I only had 1 night that a mouse manage to get past the upside can and onto the bag. Chewed a hole into the bag but couldn't hang on long enough to get anything. The system works for crying out loud, so why should we do what this guy says?

[Different Socks]

i might not be king. but if someone at shelter is doing something stupid, that could put others at risk i will do something about it. if you want to be dumb do it at your own expense, not at the expence of others.
i have zero tolerence for stupidity

So 1000's of hikers through out all those years were hanging their food the wrong way? Sounds like a good reason for your hike to not go along very well.

[jj2044]

Different Socks its right, this whole thread is kind of lame, A bear's sense of smell is 7 times better than a blood hound's or 2,100 times better than a human. the cloths you cook in have food smell in them, your pack where you carried the food has food smells in it, that candy rapper you stuck in your pocket 2 days ago , yep the bear can smell that too. bears are for the most part scared of humans even at night , for a bear to come into a shelter while people are there already mean somethin isnt right with the bear. so if im in a shelter and a bear comes in i hope there is a food bag, and its not someones pants or gloves he smelled lol.

[T.S.Kobzol]

not sure why you're assuming that I don't think the system works. see my past posts in this thread if you have time.

I did not say people will double hang, but if they did then the wider footprint of the two bags creates opportunities for mice to land and stay.

People will hang from the nails in the walls or or from the cross beam exposing bags for better mice success.

The odds are that something will happen and then they come here to report of it and others will take it as 100% odds that mice will enter their food.




You've never used a shelter where more than one food bag hung from the lines?
All my nights on the AT, I only had 1 night that a mouse manage to get past the upside can and onto the bag. Chewed a hole into the bag but couldn't hang on long enough to get anything. The system works for crying out loud, so why should we do what this guy says?

[HikerMom58]

I only said that b/c the guy was acting like if anyone, and basically he inclined "anyone" attempts to hang food in a shelter, he will move it for them. I'm sorry but I would not want to stay in a shelter with a person that thinks they should only follow his rules about how to spend the night at one. I mean if he doesn't like it when people hang food in a trail shelter, what about the people with stinking cigarette smoke, or the ones that sip coffee/tea/cocoa in their bags before bed or after awaking? What about the smell of food on a pack? Does he make you hang that from a tree or cables also?

I know Different Socks... You're OK.

Mr. Coffee was talking about his strong feelings about a situation he encountered with someone wanting to hang a huge food bag in the shelter while they slept outside the shelter, themselves. Then, he went on to say that he would actually take someone's food, hanging in the shelter, down & leave it in the woods, somewhere, without their permission. That didn't actually happen tho.

He needs to realize that it's not acceptable behavior, even if he doesn't agree with food hanging habits of other hikers. If he actually did that- things would not end well. So, if we could convince him that there are better ways to handle this, hypothetical situation, it would be a good thing.

Then, that kicked off this whole debate on whether it's better to hang your food in the shelter or keep it with you or hang it on a tree, bear pole or cable. :) That is all. :eek: Well, there's more but I'm too tired to explain. :)

[hikerboy57]

Different Socks its right, this whole thread is kind of lame, A bear's sense of smell is 7 times better than a blood hound's or 2,100 times better than a human. the cloths you cook in have food smell in them, your pack where you carried the food has food smells in it, that candy rapper you stuck in your pocket 2 days ago , yep the bear can smell that too. bears are for the most part scared of humans even at night , for a bear to come into a shelter while people are there already mean somethin isnt right with the bear. so if im in a shelter and a bear comes in i hope there is a food bag, and its not someones pants or gloves he smelled lol.
at ksc in baxter the ranger made me hang my food, told me thre had been a problem bear around, strongly urged me to make sure i hung not just my food, but my toothpaste,mouthwash, and bug spray. bug spray. i told him i had already bathed in bug spray. where should i hang myself? he smartly replied anywhere you want

[atmilkman]

If I am sleeping in a shelter, i can guarantee that you won't be hanging your food in there. thats a no no

This is what I got out of the original post. Seems pretty self explanatory to me.

[HikerMom58]

This is what I got out of the original post. Seems pretty self explanatory to me.

Brilliant -Now, why didn't I think of posting that... I have more "words" to use up in a day than u do... LOL

[jj2044]

at ksc in baxter the ranger made me hang my food, told me thre had been a problem bear around, strongly urged me to make sure i hung not just my food, but my toothpaste,mouthwash, and bug spray. bug spray. i told him i had already bathed in bug spray. where should i hang myself? he smartly replied anywhere you want

HAHA. thats funny... did you end up having any problems ?

[hikerboy57]

HAHA. thats funny... did you end up having any problems ?
no.no bear.no mice either.but of course thats because i hung my food.

[BirdBrain]

Oh, hang the food! It's bed time. Good night bloggers of this thread and good night to this thread.

Tomorrow I will start a thread on underwear and we can argue about that instead.

[atmilkman]

Oh, hang the food! It's bed time. Good night bloggers of this thread and good night to this thread.

Tomorrow I will start a thread on underwear and we can argue about that instead.
A thread about underwear could start a lot of s***.

[Capt Nat]

I always hang my underware...

[fins1838]

"Can't we all just get along"? (Rodney King) RIP

[aficion]

A thread about underwear could start a lot of s***.

Depends...

[jeffmeh]

Yes, if you are not staying in the shelter, stowing your food in the shelter is bad etiquette, and it would not be unreasonable for someone staying in the shelter to point that out and ask you to remove it.

Yes, if you are staying in the shelter on the AT (with some specific shelters with problem bears excepted), hanging your food from a mouse line is customary and acceptable.

No, taking someone's food or gear without their permission and relocating it is not acceptable.

How's that for a summary?

[aficion]

Yes, if you are not staying in the shelter, stowing your food in the shelter is bad etiquette, and it would not be unreasonable for someone staying in the shelter to point that out and ask you to remove it.

Yes, if you are staying in the shelter on the AT (with some specific shelters with problem bears excepted), hanging your food from a mouse line is customary and acceptable.

No, taking someone's food or gear without their permission and relocating it is not acceptable.

How's that for a summary?

Perfect...

[bfayer]

Yes, if you are not staying in the shelter, stowing your food in the shelter is bad etiquette, and it would not be unreasonable for someone staying in the shelter to point that out and ask you to remove it.

Yes, if you are staying in the shelter on the AT (with some specific shelters with problem bears excepted), hanging your food from a mouse line is customary and acceptable.

No, taking someone's food or gear without their permission and relocating it is not acceptable.

How's that for a summary?

That about sums up what most of us have been saying. Well done.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

[Drybones]

Yes, if you are not staying in the shelter, stowing your food in the shelter is bad etiquette, and it would not be unreasonable for someone staying in the shelter to point that out and ask you to remove it.

Yes, if you are staying in the shelter on the AT (with some specific shelters with problem bears excepted), hanging your food from a mouse line is customary and acceptable.

No, taking someone's food or gear without their permission and relocating it is not acceptable.

How's that for a summary?

Right on...........

[Drybones]

at ksc in baxter the ranger made me hang my food, told me thre had been a problem bear around, strongly urged me to make sure i hung not just my food, but my toothpaste,mouthwash, and bug spray. bug spray. i told him i had already bathed in bug spray. where should i hang myself? he smartly replied anywhere you want

HB...I bet you're the kid that had to sit in the corner every day in 6th grade.

[Drybones]

A thread about underwear could start a lot of s***.

Real hikers don't wear underwear...too heavy.

[bfayer]

Real hikers don't wear underwear...too heavy.

Wrong thread :)

[HikerMom58]

Yes, if you are not staying in the shelter, stowing your food in the shelter is bad etiquette, and it would not be unreasonable for someone staying in the shelter to point that out and ask you to remove it.

Yes, if you are staying in the shelter on the AT (with some specific shelters with problem bears excepted), hanging your food from a mouse line is customary and acceptable.

No, taking someone's food or gear without their permission and relocating it is not acceptable.

How's that for a summary?

I think we have a WINNER!!

Good belly laughs starting out this Friday morning.. :D THANKS!

[atmilkman]

A thread about underwear could start a lot of s***.


I always hang my underware...


Depends...


Real hikers don't wear underwear...too heavy.


Wrong thread :)
See. It's already starting.

[Slo-go'en]

at ksc in baxter the ranger made me hang my food, told me thre had been a problem bear around, strongly urged me to make sure i hung not just my food, but my toothpaste,mouthwash, and bug spray. bug spray. i told him i had already bathed in bug spray. where should i hang myself? he smartly replied anywhere you want

Ha! The one time I lost food to a bear was at Chimney pond in Baxter. It was hung from a tree in front of the shelter and the ranger had come by and said it looked safe. Not quite safe enough. The bear came along and was having a hard time getting to the bags, but finally made a desperate lunge and snagged one of bags. One swipe of his paw snapped a 1/4" nylon rope! Since this was right in front of the shelter, we had our flashlights trained on him and watched the whole show in awe - and a little fear.

The next year we went back with a longer, stronger rope. The problem bear was gone, but we did manage to have a moose come along and get tangled up in the rope as it lay on the ground in the morning as we ate breakfist. That was really exciting...

[Seatbelt]

[QUOTE=T.S.Kobzol;1390930]People will hang from the nails in the walls or or from the cross beam exposing bags for better mice success.

QUOTE]
Whaaatt??? I hope I never witness this, if I do, I am definitely moving on....lol

[Fredt4]

I think the most relevant point is that unattended food is a problem. If you hang your food in a shelter and camp elsewhere, then you're expecting the hikers in the shelter to attend to your food. That OK if you ask and the hikers accept, otherwise it's your food and your responsibly. If you hang your food in the shelter then your obviously of the opinion that food doesn't need to be hung from a tree or cables. (I agree with that opinion, and given that few AT thru hikers hang their food towards the end of their hike if fair to say they apparently concur.) But leaving food unattended is a problem, therefore you should keep your food with you or properly hang the food. Now that's the rub, as most hikers that have had their food taken by a bear will know, hanging your food properly is not as easy as most would believe. I only rarely hang my food (usually only when regulations required it) and I've never had my food taken by a bear, but many of times I've seen fellow hikers had their food stolen by a bear because the ever so wisely hung their food as they were properly taught. Whether you believe it's necessary to hang the food or not, at least learn how to do it properly if you do hang the food. Failure hang the food properly will create a problem bear.

[hauptman]

I have a knife and a great throwing arm for someone with limited reach. Was that my food flying off a cliff? Yes, yes it was. Now go to sleep or meet my little friend.

[MuddyWaters]

[QUOTE=T.S.Kobzol;1390930]People will hang from the nails in the walls or or from the cross beam exposing bags for better mice success.

QUOTE]
Whaaatt??? I hope I never witness this, if I do, I am definitely moving on....lol

This is what occurs at most shelters.

IF there is no reports of problem bear activity. If there is, people will hang the food...mostly.
Usually once several people have shown up, and are getting settled in, they will determine what the consensus is for food handling that night. Go with the flow if you stay in the shelter.

[Lone Wolf]

I have a knife and a great throwing arm for someone with limited reach. Was that my food flying off a cliff? Yes, yes it was. Now go to sleep or meet my little friend.

toughguy.........

[JAK]

A lot of people get this wrong, myself included, but the pinky finger stays in when hanging your food in shelters.

[aficion]

A lot of people get this wrong, myself included, but the pinky finger stays in when hanging your food in shelters.

funny....!

[AngryGerman]

Wow, there are a lot of valid points contained within this thread and while reading, often felt the need to comment with something unoriginal so...

Wait for it...

AG likes it when there is a tough guy around; it makes him feel well, you know, angry!

Yup, and that came in the third person to boot!

[mrgadget921]

i might not be king. but if someone at shelter is doing something stupid, that could put others at risk i will do something about it. if you want to be dumb do it at your own expense, not at the expence of others.
i have zero tolerence for stupidity

AGREED!
BAITING my sleeping shelter {you are not in it!}.... good luck finding, or retrieving your bag..... unless you brought your climbing spikes.....