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Newb
01-14-2013, 12:38
Reading a journal on TJ, and a hiker proudly displays his name carved into a shelter. How do y'all feel about that?

http://trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=398097

Lone Wolf
01-14-2013, 12:45
can't see it. but graffiti doesn't bother me none in shelters and privys and such.

atmilkman
01-14-2013, 12:48
WOOOOOOOW! That is so "manly". If only everbody could be like him.

Rasty
01-14-2013, 12:51
I don't get why some feel the need. Maybe compensating for something?

Karma13
01-14-2013, 12:55
It bothered the hell out of me when I first saw that post -- both the act itself, and the posting of the photo. It's bad enough to think it's OK to 'mark territory' despite the fact that it defaces the hard work of trail volunteers and ruins the view of hikers who might not be inclined to be beaten in the head with /your/ experience. That in itself is selfish and egotistical. But then to post the picture? Selfish, and bragging about it. Probably not somebody I'd be interested in having a conversation with.

Lone Wolf
01-14-2013, 12:59
the R is too small in relation to IFLE

atmilkman
01-14-2013, 13:02
the R is too small in relation to IFLE
That's an indication of some kind of small "something" syndrome.

slow mind
01-14-2013, 13:03
Leaving behind your "name" drives me nuts. I hate it. However, there is an awful lot of "grafiti" that I really do enjoy. I see it as "folk art". Where the line between the two is drawn Is in the eye of the beholder I guess.

RCBear
01-14-2013, 13:06
Considering that i feel shelters are a blight on the trail anyway, i could care less. I expect people to cook in shelters, pee in shelters, have sex in shelters...so i can't imagine people NOT carving their names in them. We can want things all we want but the reality is... "If you build it, they will come...and do things other than just sleep in it".

Coffee Rules!
01-14-2013, 13:06
Maybe the shelter register was full. :p

MyName1sMud
01-14-2013, 13:22
I'll never understand people getting upset over things like this. Sure its wrong. Sure its stupid.

Sure it's even MORE stupid to complain about.

People have been carving their names into things as long as the knife has been around..... why do people think other people are going to get smart enough to NOT carve their name into things?

When I start to get mad I just remember that makes me even worse than the person that did it.

Live and let live.

Deadeye
01-14-2013, 13:24
I guess if we didn't have shelters, then morons would carve their names in live trees. Nice of him to include lots of pictures in case the local sherriff is having a slow day.

Train Wreck
01-14-2013, 13:25
The Cleaner better hide that shovel he just replaced at Jerry's Cabin Shelter.

Astro
01-14-2013, 13:30
I'll never understand people getting upset over things like this. Sure its wrong. Sure its stupid.

Sure it's even MORE stupid to complain about.

People have been carving their names into things as long as the knife has been around..... why do people think other people are going to get smart enough to NOT carve their name into things?

When I start to get mad I just remember that makes me even worse than the person that did it.

Live and let live.

Sure some people are jerks and are going to do what they want regardless of what others think (and the damage to prorperty they do not own). But on the other hand perhaps some might read something like this and think twice about doing it.

Rasty
01-14-2013, 13:36
I'll never understand people getting upset over things like this. Sure its wrong. Sure its stupid.

Sure it's even MORE stupid to complain about.

People have been carving their names into things as long as the knife has been around..... why do people think other people are going to get smart enough to NOT carve their name into things?

When I start to get mad I just remember that makes me even worse than the person that did it.

Live and let live.

Caveman carving into stuff I understand, but we have this really cool invention called paper.

Slo-go'en
01-14-2013, 13:37
Looks like a nice, recently rebuilt shelter which hadn't been defiled much yet. Somebody had to start and encourge the next to come along to do the same.

MyName1sMud
01-14-2013, 13:39
Hopefully..... I just dont understand the point of it.

I frequent a lot of different websites and I see people complaining about the carvings all the time. Sure I used to be one of the complainers.... then it hit me. I can't control what they do and no matter how much I cry/whine/stomp my feet.... they will never stop. Why waste my short time on Earth raising cane over something I can't control? I figured I'd just do something else with my time.

I trust others out there have done the same?

Rasty
01-14-2013, 13:41
Hopefully..... I just dont understand the point of it.

I frequent a lot of different websites and I see people complaining about the carvings all the time. Sure I used to be one of the complainers.... then it hit me. I can't control what they do and no matter how much I cry/whine/stomp my feet.... they will never stop. Why waste my short time on Earth raising cane over something I can't control? I figured I'd just do something else with my time.

I trust others out there have done the same?

I only complain about things over the internet.

MyName1sMud
01-14-2013, 13:42
I only complain about things over the internet.
That's what it is here for right?

:p

LIVEtough
01-14-2013, 13:42
There are two main rules to hiking. Leave NO trace and HYOH. Only the wise will understand....

Train Wreck
01-14-2013, 13:44
I only complain about things over the internet.
.
2nd Sunday of each month is set aside for this purpos

max patch
01-14-2013, 13:46
I was at the Whitley Gap Shelter in GA (thats the one thats a couple miles off the trail) maybe 10 years ago and it was totally covered in graffiti. It felt like I was in the middle of the ghetto somewhere. This is the best picture I could find - remember ever inch of this shelter was covered with crap.

http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/0/3/0/whitleygap-nov04-graffitti.jpg

I was back last month and was pleased to see that the shelter had since been repainted and not a single item was graffiti was in evidence. Its amazing how much difference the atmosphere was.

Coffee Rules!
01-14-2013, 13:46
I can't control what they do and no matter how much I cry/whine/stomp my feet.... they will never stop.

Well see, there's the problem. You didn't hold your breath. The key to getting your point across is holding your breath. Especially if you stomp your feet at the same time.

Bearleg
01-14-2013, 13:49
LEAVE NO TRACE - ANY QUESTIONS, in order to keep the trail for the generations to come, we all as a community of hikers must follow the basic concept of leave no trace. leave only footsteps take only picture.

Left Hand
01-14-2013, 13:50
Wow...a lot of overreactions.

The kid(I think he is in his early 20's) is out in the woods, having a blast and on a great adventure. I am pretty sure the spirit of the shelter will forgive him. I would kindly ask the "condemning posters" to look at your age and his own. Most of you have 3 decades on him or more. I have seen worse atrocities that deserve the kind of energy y'all are putting into it to be corrected.

Lone Wolf
01-14-2013, 13:51
There are two main rules to hiking. Leave NO trace and HYOH. Only the wise will understand....

LNT is impossible around shelter areas

hikerboy57
01-14-2013, 14:05
LNT is impossible around shelter areas
if every hiker carves his/her name into the shleter, eventually it will be carved down to the ground.a bad thing?

fredmugs
01-14-2013, 14:09
What I don't understand is stopping at noon because you like the fire pit.

Lone Wolf
01-14-2013, 14:11
What I don't understand is stopping at noon because you like the fire pit.

that's called slackpacking

Rasty
01-14-2013, 14:12
LNT is impossible around shelter areas
if every hiker carves his/her name into the shleter, eventually it will be carved down to the ground.a bad thing?

Your on to something! Maybe a chainsaw at each shelter for carving should be supplied.

fredmugs
01-14-2013, 14:16
that's called slackpacking

Or lax packing

prain4u
01-14-2013, 14:26
A Perpetual--but Humorous--WhiteBlaze Irony: People posting on WhiteBlaze to express their own displeasure and "intolerance" regarding other people on WhiteBlaze---because such people are daring to express displeasure, and "intolerance" regarding other people's behaviors. :)

We tell people not to have so many "rules" regarding other people's behavior--then we proceed to establish rules for other people's behavior---such as: "HYOH", "live and let live", "mind your own business", "lighten up" and "chill/relax".

Not complaining--or condemning---just pointing out some of the many ironies of human behavior.

MyName1sMud
01-14-2013, 14:59
^^^ I see what you did there.

I just posted simply saying stop complaing about it. That can be stopped way easier than someone carving their name. no?

bannerstone
01-14-2013, 15:04
Yes, I find it mildly annoying.

Yes, I did stupid stuff like this a time or two when I was young.

I don't mind graffiti so much in certain situations, especially if the contributor brings a bit of art to the work, even less so if a bit of with and wisdom are shared. Let someone with a chip carving knife who knows the kerbschnitt style and they can carve whatever silly thing comes to mind and I'd probably think it was German philosophy. :)

David

ChinMusic
01-14-2013, 15:37
What I don't understand is stopping at noon because you like the fire pit.
Certainly you aren't being critical. HYOH and all..........

WingedMonkey
01-14-2013, 15:45
Why waste my short time on Earth raising cane over something I can't control? I figured I'd just do something else with my time.

The same reason your mother tried to tell you over and over not to crap in your high chair while at the table. She assumed sooner or later it would sink in. Did it?

Slo-go'en
01-14-2013, 15:47
I found a wood chisel on the side of the road once and carried it for awhile. I used it to REMOVE names carved in shelters walls which weren't cut in too deep and were recent. Eventually doing that got to be too much work.

BirdBrain
01-14-2013, 16:28
Reading a journal on TJ, and a hiker proudly displays his name carved into a shelter. How do y'all feel about that?

http://trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=398097

I am done complaining about and/or trying to understand shelter practices. Not getting caught up in this one.
On an important note: HOW 'BOUT THOSE PATRIOT'S?!?!

Old Hiker
01-14-2013, 16:37
Two things, especially for the complainers who are telling us to live and let live:

1. Broken window syndrome - look it up.
2. “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
― Edmund Burke (http://www.whiteblaze.net/author/show/17142.Edmund_Burke)

You may have the right to use public lands, but not destroy or deface what's there.

Tuckahoe
01-14-2013, 16:39
I'm of conflicting opinions on graffiti. First and foremost it really shows a lack of respect for the property of others; its just pretty low. But I have a hard time disagreeing with LW's thought that its man made graffiti on a man made structure, to the point that as a historian I was really fascinated with alot of the graffiti left at privies and shelters and many of the stories behind the graffiti. In one privy someone had written the entire story of The Lorax

ChinMusic
01-14-2013, 16:49
Man has done graffiti since our caveman ancestors put their hands on the cave walls and blew pigment.

My take is that there is a chasm of differnce between carving on a shelter and carving on Keefer Oak. I ain't worried in the least on the former.

MyName1sMud
01-14-2013, 17:17
I'm out of this thread. It's pointless to argue. Everyone is set in their ways it seems.

tluweyen
01-14-2013, 17:22
Wow...a lot of overreactions.

The kid(I think he is in his early 20's) is out in the woods, having a blast and on a great adventure. I am pretty sure the spirit of the shelter will forgive him. I would kindly ask the "condemning posters" to look at your age and his own. Most of you have 3 decades on him or more. I have seen worse atrocities that deserve the kind of energy y'all are putting into it to be corrected.

Your pleading for tolerance and understanding for this "kid" is why there are continually issues with manners. If no one speaks up and condemns this "kid", he will never know his behavior is inappropriate. BTW....he is an adult who is displaying the maturity of a child. He will hopefully learn from this and develop an appreciation for other people's and the public's stuff. That will never happen if we shut up because you have seen worse behavior. So no, people should continue to shame him into developing respectful behavior.

atmilkman
01-14-2013, 17:31
The same reason your mother tried to tell you over and over not to crap in your high chair while at the table. She assumed sooner or later it would sink in. Did it?
WM - Sometimes you come up with some pretty funny s***.

HikerMom58
01-14-2013, 17:42
I'm not going to make excuses for his behavior but try to understand where he's coming from... This is my thought....he's young & has seen this done on plenty of shelters, he has already passed. He obviously doesn't think that he's done anything "wrong". Why would be post it on his trail journals? I don't believe he has done this so he can be "in your face" about it.

Once someone points out to him that maybe that wasn't such a good thing to do & gives him reasons why... I can see him rethinking it. Slamming him for it, is not the right approach. IMHO He will gather up ammunition to defend himself & throw his behavior in the pot as well. Lost opportunity....

As far as him, "making his mark" as he hikes the trail, I don't believe that he thinks so highly of himself that he feels the need. I also think that just being out on the trail hiking, like that, can put one in a mind set of being bad arse so one might do something that is "out of character".

I don't like it, I really wished he didn't do it.

I would need to talk to him, in person, before I make a judgement call on his behavior. I certainly will not judge him or assassinate his character without really "knowing" him. I would not liked to be harshly judged by some of my mistakes, I've made, when I was younger or even now.

Slo-go'en
01-14-2013, 18:00
I'm not going to make excuses for his behavior but try to understand where he's coming from... This is my thought....he's young & has seen this done on plenty of shelters, he has already passed. He obviously doesn't think that he's done anything "wrong". Why would be post it on his trail journals? I don't believe he has done this so he can be "in your face" about it.

I'm not sure which shelter he defaced, but it's one of the new ones in Georgia which are still pretty clean. Thats why he was able to carve his name in giant letters into a virgin beam. (which still has a boot print on it from one of the builders) It's not until you get to the older shelters in NC that you start to see a lot of names cut into the walls and floor. I was going to scold him on his guest book, but saw that quite a few already had.

HikerMom58
01-14-2013, 18:06
I'm not sure which shelter he defaced, but it's one of the new ones in Georgia which are still pretty clean. Thats why he was able to carve his name in giant letters into a virgin beam. (which still has a boot print on it from one of the builders) It's not until you get to the older shelters in NC that you start to see a lot of names cut into the walls and floor. I was going to scold him on his guest book, but saw that quite a few already had.

Well, that does throw some "new light" on things. I'm glad he was scolded ,then. I'll bet he already regrets it....We still should show him some love...I won't write him off. :) Thanks Slo-go'en :)

Josh Calhoun
01-14-2013, 18:11
i dont like it, but at least its not on the trees along the trail. at least i hope not.

The Cleaner
01-14-2013, 18:11
Well this gives me an idea for my next maintenance trip,a day trip.Pack my mouse cordless sander,and 2 batteries,and sand away several years of this crap:eek:.Then go back when weather warms and stain the rafters& plywood roof sheathing at Jerry's Cabin shelter.What color stain would be best to look at and deter tagging?

atmilkman
01-14-2013, 18:14
I'm not sure which shelter he defaced, but it's one of the new ones in Georgia which are still pretty clean. Thats why he was able to carve his name in giant letters into a virgin beam. (which still has a boot print on it from one of the builders) It's not until you get to the older shelters in NC that you start to see a lot of names cut into the walls and floor. I was going to scold him on his guest book, but saw that quite a few already had.
Guest book can no longer be accessed. I wonder why.

atmilkman
01-14-2013, 18:19
Guest book can no longer be accessed. I wonder why.

Working now. Good stuff.

HikerMom58
01-14-2013, 18:25
Working now. Good stuff.

Yeah, just went there to look... it's workin. Some people were nice to let him know that's not cool. Some others not so much.....

bert304
01-14-2013, 18:28
That is a shame.

Bags4266
01-14-2013, 18:34
LOL, the mice ate through one of his shirts, through his food bag, and got into his food...... one word....Karma

bfayer
01-14-2013, 18:49
...What color stain would be best to look at and deter tagging?

Black. That will make 90% of the sharpies useless.

HikerMom: you are way to understanding and forgiving. Bless you for it, the world needs people like you to make up for people like me.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

Coffee Rules!
01-14-2013, 19:05
"You might want to not scratch your name in anything on or around the trail,also think about what you post and if it will upset any of the Nazis on Whiteblaze.com.You might think I'm kidding but hikers have had to stop their Journal because of the nasty comments by those nuts."

This was NOT me. As evidence in my defense you'll note the lack of profanity. Case closed.

MuddyWaters
01-14-2013, 19:12
Hes a douchebag
Same kind of person that writes on bathroom walls
Always has, always will
People like that dont change

ChinMusic
01-14-2013, 19:14
"You might want to not scratch your name in anything on or around the trail,also think about what you post and if it will upset any of the Nazis on Whiteblaze.com.You might think I'm kidding but hikers have had to stop their Journal because of the nasty comments by those nuts."

This was NOT me. As evidence in my defense you'll note the lack of profanity. Case closed.

Wondering if that was from the Gump.........

The Cleaner
01-14-2013, 19:22
Black. That will make 90% of the sharpies useless.

HikerMom: you are way to understanding and forgiving. Bless you for it, the world needs people like you to make up for people like me.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2 While we're on the removal subject,someone wrote "Pimp" on about 30-40 of the rocks that are used for the walls at JCS,what's the best and most environmentally friendly way to remove sharpie marks from them?:confused:

HikerMom58
01-14-2013, 19:31
Black. That will make 90% of the sharpies useless.

HikerMom: you are way to understanding and forgiving. Bless you for it, the world needs people like you to make up for people like me.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

No No bfayer.. you are fine. I can tell u are a super nice person! :)


Hes a douchebag
Same kind of person that writes on bathroom walls
Always has, always will
People like that dont change

MuddyWaters- how can you make such a statement like that? How do u know that right now he is not regretting his actions? I'm not saying he is or he isn't but I'm thinking he is regretting it. I'm thinking that he won't do it again. I could be right, I could be wrong but I can't say for sure... how can you? Everyone is different.....

The Cleaner
01-14-2013, 19:40
LOL, the mice ate through one of his shirts, through his food bag, and got into his food...... one word....Karma In this area they like to chew a hole in your down sleeping bag and take some down to their nest:eek:......

Lone Wolf
01-14-2013, 19:50
MuddyWaters- how can you make such a statement like that? How do u know that right now he is not regretting his actions? I'm not saying he is or he isn't but I'm thinking he is regretting it. I'm thinking that he won't do it again. I could be right, I could be wrong but I can't say for sure... how can you? Everyone is different.....
MW is right. no fluffin' over it

HikerMom58
01-14-2013, 19:54
MW is right. no fluffin' over it

LW... I'm not fluffin' What will u do when he comes back and apologizes for carving his name in the shelter? It is entirely possible, that's all I'm sayin....

Lone Wolf
01-14-2013, 19:59
What will u do when he comes back and apologizes for carving his name in the shelter?

i will do nothing. i really don't care what happens to shelters. he'll still be a DB

HikerMom58
01-14-2013, 20:13
i will do nothing. i really don't care what happens to shelters. he'll still be a DB

Well, I don't agree that he'll still be a DB, if he apologizes. People make mistakes. Our mistakes don't define us, thank goodness. I get how u feel about shelters & that's fine. I would miss them if they were not on the trail.
Hope the weather is good for your trip to GA.....coming up.

Bags4266
01-14-2013, 20:14
It just dosen't stop with defacing the shelter. Next is tree's or rocks, as the above poster stated. Throwing litter about. Using brooms and shovel handles as fire starters, etc. Someone needs to set him right (in a nice way). And age has nothing to do with it as far as i'm concerned it's a learned thing that apparently he was not taught or does not care. He is old enough to know better. Kids half his age know better.

John B
01-14-2013, 20:16
The same reason your mother tried to tell you over and over not to crap in your high chair while at the table. She assumed sooner or later it would sink in. Did it?

One of the funniest replies ever. HA!

Lone Wolf
01-14-2013, 20:56
Well, I don't agree that he'll still be a DB, if he apologizes. People make mistakes. Our mistakes don't define us, thank goodness. I get how u feel about shelters & that's fine. I would miss them if they were not on the trail.
Hope the weather is good for your trip to GA.....coming up.
thank you, ma'am

HikerMom58
01-14-2013, 21:06
thank you, ma'am

You are welcome Sir.... :)

hermit1970
01-14-2013, 21:22
If I want to see graffiti I'll ride the subway.

mtnkngxt
01-14-2013, 21:39
Another tool on the AT go figure. Really can't wait to get out to the PCT and JMT, at least the views and trout will make up for the other hikers.

RodentWhisperer
01-14-2013, 21:50
I don't get why some feel the need. Maybe compensating for something?

"Nice graffiti! Sorry about your penis." :D

Josh Calhoun
01-14-2013, 22:00
i will do nothing. i really don't care what happens to shelters. he'll still be a DB

i get a kick out of some or your posts lol

Don H
01-14-2013, 22:08
Defacing property is disrespectful.

MuddyWaters
01-14-2013, 22:16
No No bfayer.. you are fine. I can tell u are a super nice person! :)



MuddyWaters- how can you make such a statement like that? How do u know that right now he is not regretting his actions? I'm not saying he is or he isn't but I'm thinking he is regretting it. I'm thinking that he won't do it again. I could be right, I could be wrong but I can't say for sure... how can you? Everyone is different.....

By the time someone is an adult, they know better, or they should.
They seldom change after that
The AT is a national park
Treat is like you would any other. Period

Malto
01-14-2013, 22:17
Another tool on the AT go figure. Really can't wait to get out to the PCT and JMT, at least the views and trout will make up for the other hikers.

Unfortunately, there are a few "mistake makers" on the PCT as well. One "Misunderstood person" even posted it in his log. He got the same "over-reaction". It just a sad state where someone would do this and think there is not a bit wrong with it. Very sad.

HikerMom58
01-14-2013, 22:58
By the time someone is an adult, they know better, or they should.
They seldom change after that
The AT is a national park
Treat is like you would any other. Period

Sure, the AT is national park. It needs to be treated with respect.. no prob. He is an adult but that doesn't mean once he does something wrong, as an adult, he isn't capable of realizing that it was a mistake. I'll be anxious to see his reaction to everyone's reaction. It will be 1 of 2 things... I don't care- I did nothing wrong OR I'm sorry, I won't do it again.

gg-man - I'm not trying to cut him some slack by saying "Oh, he made a "mistake"... I'm not saying everyone is "over-reacting". The reaction is a good thing. I'm just hoping that he will realize he did something very wrong. Will feel bad about it. And say he will never do it again. I just can't see the point of being ugly about it.. it's done. I would also like to leave the door open for him to be able to say he's sorry but MW doesn't even want to go there. I don't get it.

ChinMusic
01-14-2013, 23:25
Sure, the AT is national park. It needs to be treated with respect..

I just do not view a shelter as I do Keefer Oak. One is a creation of man that many feel scars the park. The other is a irreplaceable piece of nature.

I just cannot get bent out of shape with someone scaring a scar.

hikerboy57
01-14-2013, 23:34
he should be spanked.
i can understand why it might be upsetting to see graffiti on a fairly new shelter, but ive seen shelters where free space on the walls is at a premium, and it really doesnt faze me one way or another. id be upset if he had carved his name in a tree,but a shelter?i dont like to stay in them to begin with, and if i do, my eyes are closed most of the time anyway.this is a molehill

Another Kevin
01-14-2013, 23:36
if every hiker carves his/her name into the shleter, eventually it will be carved down to the ground.a bad thing?

Judging by your pictures, the sooner that happens to that one on the Mohawk Trail, the better!

canoe
01-14-2013, 23:38
WHen did the AT become a National Park?

canoe
01-14-2013, 23:40
Maybe in prep he read "Tom Sayer" You guys kill me. LOL

Biggie Master
01-14-2013, 23:47
He should have just tattooed RIFLE on his forehead... IF he was really that proud, he would want to show it to the world - not just a bunch of shelter dwellers on the AT.

Astro
01-14-2013, 23:58
I found a wood chisel on the side of the road once and carried it for awhile. I used it to REMOVE names carved in shelters walls which weren't cut in too deep and were recent. Eventually doing that got to be too much work.

At least while you were doing it you were making the world a better place, which is appreciated.

Astro
01-15-2013, 00:02
Two things, especially for the complainers who are telling us to live and let live:

1. Broken window syndrome - look it up.
2. “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”
― Edmund Burke (http://www.whiteblaze.net/author/show/17142.Edmund_Burke)

You may have the right to use public lands, but not destroy or deface what's there.

Old Hiker,
I was thinking about both of those. Glad I read through before posting it again. I guess "great old" minds think alike. :cool:

mfleming
01-15-2013, 00:29
If the "kid" tagged your house you'd call the cops. Probably no lawyer would use the "caveman" defense to get the "kid" off for fear of being laughed out of the profession

ChinMusic
01-15-2013, 00:41
If the "kid" tagged your house you'd call the cops. Probably no lawyer would use the "caveman" defense to get the "kid" off for fear of being laughed out of the profession
I fail to see the analogy.

wornoutboots
01-15-2013, 00:44
Your pleading for tolerance and understanding for this "kid" is why there are continually issues with manners. If no one speaks up and condemns this "kid", he will never know his behavior is inappropriate. BTW....he is an adult who is displaying the maturity of a child. He will hopefully learn from this and develop an appreciation for other people's and the public's stuff. That will never happen if we shut up because you have seen worse behavior. So no, people should continue to shame him into developing respectful behavior.

Plenty of people have spoke up................... read his guestbook

WingedMonkey
01-15-2013, 07:44
WHen did the AT become a National Park?

October 2, 1968, with the passing of the National Trails System Act.

Don H
01-15-2013, 08:41
Hope Rifle gets to meet Bob Peoples.

RedBeerd
01-15-2013, 08:49
I like to read the "graffiti." it gives the shelter some character! When I see someones name from years ago it makes me think. You're all making some thing outta nothing

mgeiger
01-15-2013, 08:54
I could care less if a shelter has some graffiti. At least Rifle used some effort carving it and didn't just use a sharpie.

The Cleaner
01-15-2013, 08:55
October 2, 1968, with the passing of the National Trails System Act. At the risk of thread drift,the National Trails System Act only created access to trails.The AT ,and other long distance trails, are administered by several federal agencies,the NPS,USFS and BLM.If the whole AT was a National Park it would be patrolled by NPS Rangers .The AT is mostly on land under the jurisdiction of the USFS in the districts which it passes through.Some exceptions are the GSMNP,SNP and some land near Harper's Ferry.This was explained to me several years ago by the District Ranger here on the Unaka district of the Cherokee National Forest.I was in his office complaining about ORV use on the AT on the Coldsprings Mtn area.He said that the USFS is administered by the Department of Agriculture,which has limited resources compared to the NPS,which is administered by the Department of the Interior with a larger budget and "could put a Ranger behind every tree".Each separate USFS District has only one "District Ranger" and,depending on size,only one or two LEOs to patrol sometimes several thousand acres.On special occasions,such as the Rainbow Tribe gathering, USFS LEOs are brought in from nearby districts and local state or county LEOs to help.Here in Greene Co. TN,the sheriff's department has an agreement with the USFS to help enforce laws&regulations on USFS lands. .....just sayin'....

fins1838
01-15-2013, 09:07
Amen to that brother. (or sister?) Alot of people on here have alot of time on their hands to be complaining about this. Dang, I must have alot of time on my hands.

MuddyWaters
01-15-2013, 09:25
http://www.nps.gov/appa/index.htm


The Appalachian Trail is a 2,184 mile long public footpath that traverses the scenic, wooded, pastoral, wild, and culturally resonant lands of the Appalachian Mountains. Conceived in 1921, built by private citizens, and completed in 1937, today the trail is managed by the National Park Service, U.S. Forest Service, Appalachian Trail Conservancy, numerous state agencies and thousands of volunteers.

You dont have to patrol a park constantly for it to be a park. That is ridiculous.
Some of the first national parks are "parkways" ie roads. They are still national parks.
Thru the work of the government, protected and preserved for the benefit of the people.

We have all kinds of parks. Land areas, trails, roads, marine areas that are underwater, caves, special geological features, historical remains, etc.

Not all need constant attention.

Bucketfoot
01-15-2013, 09:41
I am sure many of the posters on this forum are like me and would rather sleep in a tent than a crowded shelter, but on those nights when the wind is howling through the trees or 2 inches of rain is coming down it is nice to be able to get into a shelter. When I stay at one I prefer one without names and filth scrawled all over the walls. It is disrespectful to the people who build and maintain the shelters as well as other hikers and I see it as a PDI, Public Display of Ignorance.

gizzy bear
01-15-2013, 13:58
it is a shelter...in the woods...it was bound to happen...if he didn't start it... someone else would... profanity i might take issue with...but it's his name for God's sake and the guy is attempting a thru hike at 25 yo... i wish him well... and IMO... there are far worse shelter/trail behaviors that deserve attention far more than this....and graffitti doesn't stink or attract critters!!

slow mind
01-15-2013, 14:04
After getting a chuckle out of following this thread, I stopped in my local watering hole and found this was put up yesterday in the men's room.

19029

Mags
01-15-2013, 14:15
800 yr old or so graffiti :)

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8338/8219732284_4b2a58872a.jpg

This scalawags also did a lot of graffiti.... (http://www.pompeiana.org/Resources/Ancient/Graffiti%20from%20Pompeii.htm) ;)

slow mind
01-15-2013, 14:20
800 yr old or so graffiti :)

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8338/8219732284_4b2a58872a.jpg

Douchebags.....

bfayer
01-15-2013, 14:33
800 yr old or so graffiti :)

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8338/8219732284_4b2a58872a.jpg

This scalawags also did a lot of graffiti.... (http://www.pompeiana.org/Resources/Ancient/Graffiti%20from%20Pompeii.htm) ;)

Its obvious from the drawing it was an extraterrestrial touron that left that picture, probably on his first trip away from home without adult supervision. Kind of like a thru hiker. His parents probably kicked his butt when they found out, and rightfully so :)

ChinMusic
01-15-2013, 14:37
Its obvious from the drawing it was an extraterrestrial touron that left that picture, probably on his first trip away from home without adult supervision. Kind of like a thru hiker. His parents probably kicked his butt when they found out, and rightfully so :)

awesome....

Old Hiker
01-15-2013, 14:43
800 yr old or so graffiti :)

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8338/8219732284_4b2a58872a.jpg

This scalawags also did a lot of graffiti.... (http://www.pompeiana.org/Resources/Ancient/Graffiti%20from%20Pompeii.htm) ;)

Obviously some alien thru-hikers. Wonder if they made it.


Oooooops - need to read ALL the posts before adding my graffiti.

max patch
01-15-2013, 14:45
Rightly or wrongly, the ATC takes this seriously and is trying to locate a thru who last year used a permanent marker on a lot of shelters and trail signs. Posting this on TJ was not the smartest thing Rifle could have done. They'll probably be waiting for him at Harpers Ferry....

bfayer
01-15-2013, 14:52
I just read the last entry in his trail journal. A mouse chewed up his wool shirt and food bag and he is not happy.

On a side not his stats show 13 0 days and 10 hiking days. I wish him the best of luck with the incoming weather.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

HikerMom58
01-15-2013, 15:03
I just read the last entry in his trail journal. A mouse chewed up his wool shirt and food bag and he is not happy.

On a side not his stats show 13 0 days and 10 hiking days. I wish him the best of luck with the incoming weather.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

LOVE ur 800 year old graffiti post!! :)

I'm pulling for him, bfayer. He seems like a really nice guy, overall. I'm glad that he has been warned about the upcoming bad weather.

Bags4266
01-15-2013, 15:05
it is a shelter...in the woods...it was bound to happen...if he didn't start it... someone else would... profanity i might take issue with...but it's his name for God's sake and the guy is attempting a thru hike at 25 yo... i wish him well... and IMO... there are far worse shelter/trail behaviors that deserve attention far more than this....and graffitti doesn't stink or attract critters!!

Sure your right its only a shelter. If it were a rock face or tree then would it be different? Because someone who would do this doesn't understand that its wrong (obviously because he displayed it). So it would let me believe he would deface other things. And yes he is 25, kids half that age know its better.

Drybones
01-15-2013, 16:12
[QUOTE=bfayer;1393864] A mouse chewed up his wool shirt and food bag and he is not happy.

There is justice in this world after all.

gizzy bear
01-15-2013, 16:14
Sure your right its only a shelter. If it were a rock face or tree then would it be different? Because someone who would do this doesn't understand that its wrong (obviously because he displayed it). So it would let me believe he would deface other things. And yes he is 25, kids half that age know its better.



the question at hand was the shelter graffitti...but to answer your question, a rock or a tree would be different... but these shelters have been known to be a place to "leave your mark" if you will ...now, is it "wrong" because you don't like it? or are there signs posted, prohibiting graffitti? just wondering... because there are many different opinions here on this thread...

ChinMusic
01-15-2013, 16:28
... because there are many different opinions here on this thread...

Personally, I kinda like much of the graffiti in shelters (NOT on nature or trail signs). I would never do any of it myself. I am old enough to know that there are enough curmudgeons out there that get their boxers in a bunch.

I will admit to carving my name in a dock when I was a kid. There were other names carved long before me and the owner seemed to think it part of the ambiance. He watched me do it.

Malto
01-15-2013, 16:32
the question at hand was the shelter graffitti...but to answer your question, a rock or a tree would be different... but these shelters have been known to be a place to "leave your mark" if you will ...now, is it "wrong" because you don't like it? or are there signs posted, prohibiting graffitti? just wondering... because there are many different opinions here on this thread...

Are there signs on the side of your house prohibiting graffitti? Some things don't need a sign, they should be common sense. How understanding would many of you be if someone decided the side of your car would make a good billboard? Why is it different if it is in the woods on something built by others?

ChinMusic
01-15-2013, 16:35
Are there signs on the side of your house prohibiting graffitti? Some things don't need a sign, they should be common sense. How understanding would many of you be if someone decided the side of your car would make a good billboard? Why is it different if it is in the woods on something built by others?
I find it unbelievable that someone would equate graffiti on a personal vehicle and a shelter.

There are some mighty tight boxers in this thread.

Lone Wolf
01-15-2013, 16:37
nobody gets upset when trees are cut down to make room for a new shelter

Drybones
01-15-2013, 16:37
LW... I'm not fluffin' What will u do when he comes back and apologizes for carving his name in the shelter? It is entirely possible, that's all I'm sayin....

Apology accepted...now sand your name and every other name off this shelter...that's what's known as restitution. Tough love is the best love at times. Biblical justice was extreme by our standards but the intent was not to punish the offender but rather to keep the offence from happening. Let this guy off your saying it's okay for everyone to do it..."When the sentence for a crime is not quickly carried out, the hearts of the people are filled with schemes to do wrong"....a major issue with or current justice system.

hikerboy57
01-15-2013, 16:37
I find it unbelievable that someone would equate graffiti on a personal vehicle and a shelter.

There are some mighty tight boxers in this thread.same guy that when you were a kid playing catch and the ball fell into his yard, he would keep the ball"to teach you kids a lesson about respect"

Drybones
01-15-2013, 16:40
nobody gets upset when trees are cut down to make room for a new shelter

Thread drift....

Drybones
01-15-2013, 16:42
I find it unbelievable that someone would equate graffiti on a personal vehicle and a shelter.

There are some mighty tight boxers in this thread.

If you dont own it....leave it alone.

ChinMusic
01-15-2013, 16:42
Thread drift....

Nah, wasn't the whole premise, LNT?

hikerboy57
01-15-2013, 16:42
now if he decided to carve his name on my tent, well that would be differrent.

really you go to the woods to relax, find some piece of mind and this is what you get your knickers twisted about?i dont condone it, i wouldnt do it, and i would probably say something if i saw it being done, but to see graffiti and have some physically violent reaction from the experience-really? let it go.

Alligator
01-15-2013, 16:43
Located at
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/hiking/hiking-basics/regulations-permits

STATE AND LOCAL LAWS Every state, town, and municipality crossed or bordered by the A.T. has a vested interest in the activities of persons using the Trail. Sometimes, the state plays a primary role—for example, in Maryland the A.T. is mostly on state-owned land. Listed below are the most common prohibitions on the activities of A.T. hikers:
Littering or defacing of any public property is not allowed. Creating graffiti on rocks or other natural objects is not allowed.

ChinMusic
01-15-2013, 16:43
If you dont own it....leave it alone.

I made it clear that I wouldn't. I just find it odd that so many are getting bent out of shape over a name carved in a shelter.

Odd Man Out
01-15-2013, 16:46
And from Pompeii (destroyed in the year 79), we have these examples of Graffiti:

"Lucius Pinxit” = Lucius wrote this

“Philiros spado” = Phileros is a eunuch

“Suspirium puellam Celadus thraex” = Celadus makes the girls moan


“Admiror, O paries, te non cecidisse, qui tot scriptorium taedia sustineas.” = I wonder, O wall, that you have not yet collapsed, so many writers’ clichés do you bear.

Malto
01-15-2013, 16:51
I find it unbelievable that someone would equate graffiti on a personal vehicle and a shelter.

There are some mighty tight boxers in this thread.

What is the difference? In both cases someone is righting/marking on property that is not their own. Just because it belongs to the public makes it OK? Just because "everyone does it" makes it OK. After seeing the number of folks that are either defending or say it's no big deal.... I can understand why there are so many names on the shelters and trees and rocks and everywhere else, I suspect we would find many of these defender's names written on the walls.

gizzy bear
01-15-2013, 16:53
Are there signs on the side of your house prohibiting graffitti? Some things don't need a sign, they should be common sense. How understanding would many of you be if someone decided the side of your car would make a good billboard? Why is it different if it is in the woods on something built by others?

lol....that is about a 10 on the tension scale buddy... but i will answer.... if i lived in a shelter or drove a shelter...i wouldn't care... as others have said...i wouldn't do it...but as long as it isn't profanity or pornographic...i don't let silleh stuff ruffle my feathers....;)

ChinMusic
01-15-2013, 16:53
After seeing the number of folks that are either defending or say it's no big deal.... I can understand why there are so many names on the shelters and trees and rocks and everywhere else...

NO ONE has defended the scaring of nature...........NO ONE


I suspect we would find many of these defender's names written on the walls.

FU

ChinMusic
01-15-2013, 16:57
Sometimes it is celebrated.

http://www.seeplymouth.com/sites/default/files/styles/lodging_big/public/things-to-do/27.9%20KB%20Plymouth%20Rock.jpg

Malto
01-15-2013, 17:00
NO ONE has defended the scaring of nature...........NO ONE



FU

So if scarring a rock is wrong then why is it OK to mark a shelter? Because its man-made. I am truly trying to understand the principles that are being used, because so far, it defies logic?

RE the FU comment.... I guess my post hit a little too close to home.

ChinMusic
01-15-2013, 17:01
RE the FU comment.... I guess my post hit a little too close to home.

I do not take assaults on my character lightly.

ATMountainTime
01-15-2013, 17:03
This is easily handed with the points of Tread Lightly.

I dont support it, nor would i encourage, and would say something to someone doing it...but is it worth getting into an arguement about? for me it would be a no.

Drybones
01-15-2013, 17:04
lol....that is about a 10 on the tension scale buddy... but i will answer.... if i lived in a shelter or drove a shelter...i wouldn't care... as others have said...i wouldn't do it...but as long as it isn't profanity or pornographic...i don't let silleh stuff ruffle my feathers....;)

...are you the one who determines what's profanity and pornographic?

Malto
01-15-2013, 17:05
I do not take assaults on my character lightly.

So, if you take take me saying that "MANY of you may have written your names on the shelter" as "an assault on your character." then why aren't you equally as outraged when someone else does the same act? Seems a bit inconsistent.

Drybones
01-15-2013, 17:07
Sometimes it is celebrated.

http://www.seeplymouth.com/sites/default/files/styles/lodging_big/public/things-to-do/27.9%20KB%20Plymouth%20Rock.jpg

Some day we'll all have a rock with a date on top of us...celebration time!!

gizzy bear
01-15-2013, 17:09
...are you the one who determines what's profanity and pornographic?

actually...i am not offended by porn or profanity...so it probably wouldn't be a good idea for me to have that job...but it is painfully clear that there are some here are easily butthurt...

HikerMom58
01-15-2013, 17:12
Are there signs on the side of your house prohibiting graffitti? Some things don't need a sign, they should be common sense. How understanding would many of you be if someone decided the side of your car would make a good billboard? Why is it different if it is in the woods on something built by others?

I know what u are sayin but I think I understand Gizzy to be pointing out the fact that there's not any hard fast "rules" on graffitti, in general. I think most people find it annoying. But, as we can see here on WB it doesn't even annoy some people.

I don't know if you noticed but on Hay Rock, right above Daleville, that rock is covered with it. It makes me soo sad every time I see it. It's not easy to do but excepting the fact that not everyone cares about things you care about is something that we have to accept in life.

We can't control others.

It isn't common sense to some people at all. They have a different "filter" than I do, for sure.

Drybones
01-15-2013, 17:24
This thread is an example of how we're all made differently. Most people live in a grey area where a little of this or a little of that is okay, just dont take it too far. The problem is, where to draw the line, and everyone draws the line in a different spot. For the most part I see things as black or white, it's either right or it's wrong, not saying that's a good thing, just the way it is...just recalled a joke to make a point.... Guy walks up to a beautiful woman and asks if she'll spend the night with him for a $million, she says yes, he then asks if she will for $5.00, she responds, "what do you think I am", he responds, "we've already established what you are, we're now negotiating price".

ChinMusic
01-15-2013, 17:25
So, if you take take me saying that "MANY of you may have written your names on the shelter" as "an assault on your character."

When you quote ME, yes.

gizzy bear
01-15-2013, 17:28
I know what u are sayin but I think I understand Gizzy to be pointing out the fact that there's not any hard fast "rules" on graffitti, in general. I think most people find it annoying. But, as we can see here on WB it doesn't even annoy some people.

I don't know if you noticed but on Hay Rock, right above Daleville, that rock is covered with it. It makes me soo sad every time I see it. It's not easy to do but excepting the fact that not everyone cares about things you care about is something that we have to accept in life.

We can't control others.

It isn't common sense to some people at all. They have a different "filter" than I do, for sure.

thanks HM :D ... you had me at hello :)

HikerMom58
01-15-2013, 17:30
This thread is an example of how we're all made differently. Most people live in a grey area where a little of this or a little of that is okay, just dont take it too far. The problem is, where to draw the line, and everyone draws the line in a different spot. For the most part I see things as black or white, it's either right or it's wrong, not saying that's a good thing, just the way it is...just recalled a joke to make a point.... Guy walks up to a beautiful woman and asks if she'll spend the night with him for a $million, she says yes, he then asks if she will for $5.00, she responds, "what do you think I am", he responds, "we've already established what you are, we're now negotiating price".

Haha!! The cognitive disorder that you are describing is called- Black and White thinking... Once I was aware of it, I try to avoid thinking that way...Oh Boy!!:eek:

Ender
01-15-2013, 17:31
OK everyone, I'm going to ask that you all take a step away from the keyboard and take a deep breath. And when you come back to the keyboard, you'll be calm, and you'll keep the personal attacks to none. Discuss the subject, not each other.

Drybones
01-15-2013, 17:33
When you quote ME, yes.

Suggest you guys PM each other.

Bags4266
01-15-2013, 17:52
the question at hand was the shelter graffitti...but to answer your question, a rock or a tree would be different... but these shelters have been known to be a place to "leave your mark" if you will ...now, is it "wrong" because you don't like it? or are there signs posted, prohibiting graffitti? just wondering... because there are many different opinions here on this thread...

Well there isn't signs not to park in front of a fire hydrant but you know its wrong. And yes we are talking shelters. However his lack of common sense lets me believe he doesn't have a clue, I would hope someone could school him before we see "rifle" on tree's and rocks.

atmilkman
01-15-2013, 18:29
Rightly or wrongly, the ATC takes this seriously and is trying to locate a thru who last year used a permanent marker on a lot of shelters and trail signs. Posting this on TJ was not the smartest thing Rifle could have done. They'll probably be waiting for him at Harpers Ferry....
He'll change his name by then. Maybe something like 38 snub nose.

ChinMusic
01-15-2013, 18:38
He'll change his name by then. Maybe something like 38 snub nose.


PShooter....

hikerboy57
01-15-2013, 18:40
PShooter....
how bout "spit"

gizzy bear
01-15-2013, 18:43
Well there isn't signs not to park in front of a fire hydrant but you know its wrong. And yes we are talking shelters. However his lack of common sense lets me believe he doesn't have a clue, I would hope someone could school him before we see "rifle" on tree's and rocks.

i don't have a dog in this fight....i am not changing my mind...imo... a tag, in a shelter, isn't a big deal to me... i wouldn't encourage it, but it does not upset me... :banana

atmilkman
01-15-2013, 18:46
how bout "spit"
How about "pop gun".

gizzy bear
01-15-2013, 18:55
perhaps....

http://www.newfrog.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/265x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/3/9/39754-1.jpg.jpg (http://www.newfrog.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/265x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/3/9/39754-1.jpg.jpg)

gizzy bear
01-15-2013, 18:56
perhaps....

http://www.newfrog.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/265x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/3/9/39754-1.jpg.jpg (http://www.newfrog.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/265x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/3/9/39754-1.jpg.jpg)


he could graffitti himself.... ;)

Josh Calhoun
01-15-2013, 19:08
this guy seems like a good light hearted man "assuming from his posts" i am sure once he reads all the guestbook comments he will see that he had done something wrong. and will probably apologise either on here or on his TJ. but some people are just taking it to far. i hope the ones calling him a DB dont cause him to delete his TJ. or make him feel like he has to look over his shoulder. i am pulling for the guy. i believe all of us 13's are following him.

i do not mind inspirational writings or trail names. but im not a fan of all of the cursing and pot leafs i see all over every inch of the shelters. kids sleep in there to. but is it wrong?? yes...

HikerMom58
01-15-2013, 19:17
this guy seems like a good light hearted man "assuming from his posts" i am sure once he reads all the guestbook comments he will see that he had done something wrong. and will probably apologise either on here or on his TJ. but some people are just taking it to far. i hope the ones calling him a DB dont cause him to delete his TJ. or make him feel like he has to look over his shoulder. i am pulling for the guy. i believe all of us 13's are following him.

i do not mind inspirational writings or trail names. but im not a fan of all of the cursing and pot leafs i see all over every inch of the shelters. kids sleep in there to. but is it wrong?? yes...

Ya know, Josh, I think we are on the "same page". :) Good luck to you and all the 13's.

Josh Calhoun
01-15-2013, 19:22
Ya know, Josh, I think we are on the "same page". :) Good luck to you and all the 13's.

thanks hikermom!

slow mind
01-15-2013, 19:59
This poor kid... this thread will likley be a big s*&t stain on what would otherwise be one of his greatest memories.
I'll surely catch alot of flack for this but ...... YOU PEOPLE SUCK

gizzy bear
01-15-2013, 20:04
This poor kid... this thread will likley be a big s*&t stain on what would otherwise be one of his greatest memories.
I'll surely catch alot of flack for this but ...... YOU PEOPLE SUCK

I thought the very same thing!! I really didn't think it was necessary for the OP to include his TJ ... with the imposed question... Poor kid!!

HikerMom58
01-15-2013, 20:15
This poor kid... this thread will likley be a big s*&t stain on what would otherwise be one of his greatest memories.
I'll surely catch alot of flack for this but ...... YOU PEOPLE SUCK

No flack from me slow mind...... :)


I thought the very same thing!! I really didn't think it was necessary for the OP to include his TJ ... with the imposed question... Poor kid!!

Great minds.... you had me at hello 2! :)

bfayer
01-15-2013, 20:16
This poor kid... this thread will likley be a big s*&t stain on what would otherwise be one of his greatest memories.
I'll surely catch alot of flack for this but ...... YOU PEOPLE SUCK

He carves his crap into public property, and you're worried about his feelings? and somehow we are the problem?

Get real. What this kid needs is a significant emotional event to wake his butt up.

Posting that picture and getting called out for it is probably the best thing that could happen to him.

Learning moment: being held responsible for your actions is part of being an adult. Wish he would have learned it before he turned 25, but better late than never.

HikerMom58
01-15-2013, 20:20
He carves his crap into public property, and you're worried about his feelings? and somehow we are the problem?

Get real. What this kid needs is a significant emotional event to wake his butt up.

Posting that picture and getting called out for it is probably the best thing that could happen to him.

Learning moment: being held responsible for your actions is part of being an adult. Wish he would have learned it before he turned 25, but better late than never.


bfayer... it's not wrong of people to feel what he did was wrong..I don't agree with it either but it's how people expressed their disapproval of what he did. I feel bad about how that will make him feel. That's what really sucks. ...

aficion
01-15-2013, 20:36
He carves his crap into public property, and you're worried about his feelings? and somehow we are the problem?

Get real. What this kid needs is a significant emotional event to wake his butt up.

Posting that picture and getting called out for it is probably the best thing that could happen to him.

Learning moment: being held responsible for your actions is part of being an adult. Wish he would have learned it before he turned 25, but better late than never.

These days 25 yr olds are half expected to still be kids. My just turned 11 yo knows better. Rifle probably does too now. Hope so. I wish him and the rest of the "kids" out there the best, and I know they will all learn much both here and on the trail.

bfayer
01-15-2013, 20:37
HikerMom, it doesn't bother me if someone feels bad for him. I feel bad for everyone that does stupid things, but if someone gets butt hurt for getting called out for their actions, does not mean that the people that called him out "suck"

Now if he comes out and says "got it, my bad" and we still stay on his case, OK, then we suck. But till then the suckage is all on him.

I told you the world needed people like you to offset people like me. I meant it.

ChinMusic
01-15-2013, 20:38
bfayer... it's not wrong of people to feel what he did was wrong..I don't agree with it either but it's how people expressed their disapproval of what he did. I feel bad about how that will make him feel. That's what really sucks. ...
Bingo.....

IMO many of the posts in this thread, and of those that anonymously dinged his TJ, is more offensive than anything this guy has done.

Bucketfoot
01-15-2013, 21:02
Whew! Can we be done with this thread now. I won't be back.

Drybones
01-15-2013, 21:02
What the young man did was illegal and should not have been done and he needs to be told that. Having said that, I dont believe he should be drawn and quartered, I'd still hike and break bread with him and I'm sure enjoy his company. To put it in perspective, if the interstate speed limit is 70 MPH, how fast do us posters drive knowing 70 is the law...blame the cops for that, we go whatever we believe will be inforced.

atmilkman
01-15-2013, 21:10
Whew! Can we be done with this thread now. I won't be back.
The pic has been removed, the bragging about it has been removed, the "bad" replies have been deleted. It's like nothing ever happened at all. It's been buried under the shelter. No one will ever know. It's done.

Malto
01-15-2013, 21:13
What the young man did was illegal and should not have been done and he needs to be told that. Having said that, I dont believe he should be drawn and quartered, I'd still hike and break bread with him and I'm sure enjoy his company. To put it in perspective, if the interstate speed limit is 70 MPH, how fast do us posters drive knowing 70 is the law...blame the cops for that, we go whatever we believe will be inforced.

Thanks for reminding me..... I have a ticket to pay for a ticket in Va. Rrrrrrrrrr

atmilkman
01-15-2013, 21:19
Thanks for reminding me..... I have a ticket to pay for a ticket in Va. Rrrrrrrrrr
Don't you mean VVVVRRRRROOOOOMMMMM.

bfayer
01-15-2013, 21:22
What the young man did was illegal and should not have been done and he needs to be told that. Having said that, I dont believe he should be drawn and quartered, I'd still hike and break bread with him and I'm sure enjoy his company. To put it in perspective, if the interstate speed limit is 70 MPH, how fast do us posters drive knowing 70 is the law...blame the cops for that, we go whatever we believe will be inforced.


I don't think he is a bad guy, and I would have no problem hiking or eating with him either, but I would tell him what he did was bad form, and he needs to own up to it.

There is not a day that goes by that I don't do something stupid. We all do, it's what we learn from it that counts. If a little criticism helps him learn, then it's not all bad is it?

And like I said earlier, I hope he gets through this weather OK, It sounds like it's going to be a little on the chilly side down there.

Drybones
01-15-2013, 21:25
Thanks for reminding me..... I have a ticket to pay for a ticket in Va. Rrrrrrrrrr

I was seriously looking at buying a sports car a while back until my wife, in her wisdom, told me that to enjoy it I would get myself in trouble...thought about it and concluded she, as usual, was right...scrapped the idea...us kids just can't have any fun!

Drybones
01-15-2013, 21:30
And like I said earlier, I hope he gets through this weather OK, It sounds like it's going to be a little on the chilly side down there.

I've been through a lot worse weather and survived and I'm sure this is nothing compared to what he will experience throughout his life...doubt there'll be any permanent damage. If I told you the stuff I did when young the cops would be at the door before I shut the PC off tonight.

Tuckahoe
01-15-2013, 21:32
bfayer... it's not wrong of people to feel what he did was wrong..I don't agree with it either but it's how people expressed their disapproval of what he did. I feel bad about how that will make him feel. That's what really sucks. ...

That's the benefit of public shame, its supposed to make you feel bad about something that you have done and maybe cause you to stop and reconsider the next time there's the thought of tagging a shelter. All the young man has received is written public scoldings, I can't feel bad about how he feels because of that. Now lets hope that he has learned a lesson.

ChinMusic
01-15-2013, 21:36
That's the benefit of public shame,......

I'm doing my best.........

bfayer
01-15-2013, 21:37
I've been through a lot worse weather and survived and I'm sure this is nothing compared to what he will experience throughout his life...doubt there'll be any permanent damage. If I told you the stuff I did when young the cops would be at the door before I shut the PC off tonight.

Drybones, what happened in the 60s, stays in the 60s :)

atmilkman
01-15-2013, 21:38
I've been through a lot worse weather and survived and I'm sure this is nothing compared to what he will experience throughout his life...doubt there'll be any permanent damage. If I told you the stuff I did when young the cops would be at the door before I shut the PC off tonight.
Can you top putting an outhouse on the front lawn of the Ft. Payne Police Station? I don't know who did this I've only heard rumors.

Drybones
01-15-2013, 21:46
Can you top putting an outhouse on the front lawn of the Ft. Payne Police Station? I don't know who did this I've only heard rumors.

City policy had a mary jane plant they kept at the station for educational purposes...went missing one night...no one seems to know where it went. Can't understand people doing stupid stuff like that.

shelb
01-15-2013, 21:48
I don't get why some feel the need. Maybe compensating for something?

Agreed!.........

Wise Old Owl
01-15-2013, 21:50
Serious? Graffitti goes as far back as man, Anastasi,
http://www.discovermoab.com/images/U279_petroglyphs.jpg


Reading the Writing on Pompeii’s Walls

To better understand the ancient Roman world, one archaeologist looks at the graffiti


http://media.smithsonianmag.com/images/Pompeii-street-graffiti-631.jpg

Cave art in France
before your time

http://customtripplanning.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/morse-ralph-20-000-year-old-lascaux-cave-painting-done-by-cro-magnon-man-in-the-dordogne-region-france.jpg

So forget it ... folks do it - its wrong - its human nature going back 100,000 years. Get a grip folks.... Yea I am blunt.. I am working on this.... :rolleyes:

HikerMom58
01-15-2013, 21:51
That's the benefit of public shame, its supposed to make you feel bad about something that you have done and maybe cause you to stop and reconsider the next time there's the thought of tagging a shelter. All the young man has received is written public scoldings, I can't feel bad about how he feels because of that. Now lets hope that he has learned a lesson.

Tuck.. I have no prob. with public scolding but if u read his TJ guest book entries, u would see that it went way beyond scolding. It was down right ugly.. there's no need for that, IMHO. My mom always told me- When expressing one's thoughts, opinions and feelings with other people.. you can be sooo "right" but yet be sooo "wrong". Did I always remember that & "behave", myself? .... nope! :datz

Drybones
01-15-2013, 22:04
Serious? Graffitti goes as far back as man, Anastasi,




So forget it ... folks do it - its wrong - its human nature going back 100,000 years. Get a grip folks.... Yea I am blunt.. I am working on this.... :rolleyes:

We've been killing each other that long also and that seems to be human nature as well but until the "law" is changed to allow it I propose we abide by whatever is legal, or, change the law. For me, what Alligator posted was what really matters, or, should we each determine what laws we respect and which ones we break? The worst times in written history was when "everyone did what was right in thier own eyes". I realize we're talking about two different ends of the spectum, but, where do you draw the line?

Wise Old Owl
01-15-2013, 22:13
We've been killing each other that long also and that seems to be human nature as well but until the "law" is changed to allow it I propose we abide by whatever is legal, or, change the law. For me, what Alligator posted was what really matters, or, should we each determine what laws we respect and which ones we break? The worst times in written history was when "everyone did what was right in thier own eyes". I realize we're talking about two different ends of the spectum, but, where do you draw the line?

Who knew? There was a line?

atmilkman
01-15-2013, 22:15
Who knew? There was a line?
Yes there was a line and you don't live far from it.

hikerboy57
01-15-2013, 22:18
Who knew? There was a line?


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_N6IFoS5MzpI/TMB7YuPDefI/AAAAAAAAABo/oqy9kkYUH88/s1600/nazca.jpg

Alligator
01-15-2013, 22:19
I think what happens is that people have to live with the results of what is a minor crime whenever they see stuff like this in the woods and then when an actual person is caught, strong negative emotions come out. Then folks are suddenly able to express them directly on the internet to the perpetrator.

Wise Old Owl
01-15-2013, 22:20
Another Monkey on the back... hmm you never dis-appoint!

BirdBrain
01-15-2013, 22:21
Tuck.. I have no prob. with public scolding but if u read his TJ guest book entries, u would see that it went way beyond scolding. It was down right ugly.. there's no need for that, IMHO. My mom always told me- When expressing one's thoughts, opinions and feelings with other people.. you can be sooo "right" but yet be sooo "wrong". Did I always remember that & "behave", myself? .... nope! :datz

You are fighting a battle that cannot be won. I applaud your efforts. I tried on a couple of other threads to inject reason into the debate. It appears to be impossible with some people on this site. I am beginning to wonder if people are starting threads hoping for an argument. That is why I started the "underwear fight" thread. It was an attempt to show how silly this stuff is becoming. I think the best way to stop these debates is to ignore them.

atmilkman
01-15-2013, 22:22
19033
Who knew? There was a line?____________

hikerboy57
01-15-2013, 22:24
You are fighting a battle that cannot be won. I applaud your efforts. I tried on a couple of other threads to inject reason into the debate. It appears to be impossible with some people on this site. I am beginning to wonder if people are starting threads hoping for an argument. That is why I started the "underwear fight" thread. It was an attempt to show how silly this stuff is becoming. I think the best way to stop these debates is to ignore them.
in a perverse way rifle has gained a notoriety i dont think he intended.those of you who brought attention to his misdeed have also brought him fame

atmilkman
01-15-2013, 22:26
I think what happens is that people have to live with the results of what is a minor crime whenever they see stuff like this in the woods and then when an actual person is caught, strong negative emotions come out. Then folks are suddenly able to express them directly on the internet to the perpetrator.
Interesting choice of word(s).

ChinMusic
01-15-2013, 22:35
in a perverse way rifle has gained a notoriety i dont think he intended.those of you who brought attention to his misdeed have also brought him fame

Some are born famous, some achieve fame and some have fame thrust upon them

atmilkman
01-15-2013, 22:42
in a perverse way rifle has gained a notoriety i dont think he intended.those of you who brought attention to his misdeed have also brought him fame


Some are born famous, some achieve fame and some have fame thrust upon them
No doubt. Now everbody is gonna go from shelter to shelter running up to them and saying "Hey let's see if Rifle carved his name in this one. I gotta get a pic".

HikerMom58
01-15-2013, 22:43
Interesting choice of word(s).

Hummm.... missed that one. I can understand what Alligator is saying, no prob, but that's an interesting way of looking at one's behavior. Still not exceptable in my book. Here's why- b/c you don't know for sure where the person, that has committed "the crime", is coming from.... too many unknown facts about the person involved.

BB- I hear ya and I agree!:eek:

Lone Wolf
01-15-2013, 22:46
Still not exceptable in my book.

Acceptable

hikerboy57
01-15-2013, 22:49
No doubt. Now everbody is gonna go from shelter to shelter running up to them and saying "Hey let's see if Rifle carved his name in this one. I gotta get a pic".
there will be rifle trading cards no doubt with pictures of his handiwork.and rifle carved his name in a shelter and all i got was this lousy tshirt tshirts. a whole line of rifle raffiti memoribilia. we have created a monster


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuoKNZjr8_U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuoKNZjr8_U

atmilkman
01-15-2013, 22:51
there will be rifle trading cards no doubt with pictures of his handiwork.and rifle carved his name in a shelter and all i got was this lousy tshirt tshirts. a whole line of rifle raffiti memoribilia. we have created a monster


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuoKNZjr8_U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuoKNZjr8_U

Go to the cafe.

joshuasdad
01-15-2013, 22:54
Thanks for reminding me..... I have a ticket to pay for a ticket in Va. Rrrrrrrrrr

Be careful in Virginia, 80 mph is reckless driving. Pretty harsh when speed limit is 70.

HikerMom58
01-15-2013, 22:54
in a perverse way rifle has gained a notoriety i dont think he intended.those of you who brought attention to his misdeed have also brought him fame

Interesting thought HB... but if his personality is anything like mine- I can say he would rather not have his notoriety gained in this manner. I swear, I ask everyone I meet, in person, from WB if they knew about "yours truly" from the "unmentionable thread". I still always "gulp" when they shake their heads ... that would be a "yes". Oh NOOOOOOOOOO!!!! Not:cool:

HikerMom58
01-15-2013, 22:55
Acceptable

Thanks buddy... :)

Alligator
01-15-2013, 22:59
Hummm.... missed that one. I can understand what Alligator is saying, no prob, but that's an interesting way of looking at one's behavior. Still not exceptable in my book. Here's why- b/c you don't know for sure where the person, that has committed "the crime", is coming from.... too many unknown facts about the person involved.

BB- I hear ya and I agree!:eek:Defacing public property is a crime, no quotes needed.

HikerMom58
01-15-2013, 23:22
Defacing public property is a crime, no quotes needed.

Ok... no prob. He can be held accountable to the law of the land, then. He doesn't need to be verbally harassed by people that need to "vent". That's the way we do it on the internet, these days, and that is wrong. No excuses.
I will say that I was terribly disappointed when I saw what he had done, myself. You cannot control what others do but you can control your own behavior, at all times. Verbally assaulting someone for their bad behavior, IMHO, is not cool. Do I think we should have told him that what he had done was a crime? Absolutely. But, call him a DB and worse?... not so much!

And yes, I do speed sometimes... VRRRRRRRRooommmm.

The Cleaner
01-15-2013, 23:25
Look's like winter is about to set in for a while.Wonder if he will deface his motel room:eek:.........

Alligator
01-15-2013, 23:26
Ok... no prob. He can be held accountable to the law of the land, then. He doesn't need to be verbally harassed by people that need to "vent". That's the way we do it on the internet, these days, and that is wrong. No excuses.
I will say that I was terribly disappointed when I saw what he had done, myself. You cannot control what others do but you can control your own behavior, at all times. Verbally assaulting someone for their bad behavior, IMHO, is not cool. Do I think we should have told him that what he had done was a crime? Absolutely. But, call him a DB and worse?... not so much!

And yes, I do speed sometimes... VRRRRRRRRooommmm.Harassment is a crime too, with cyberharassment also a crime in many jurisdictions. People should consider that as well before they go tagging his journal.

gizzy bear
01-15-2013, 23:34
(null)

That is why you are called WOO & not DOO.... D= dumb... + 1 ... :cool:

gizzy bear
01-15-2013, 23:38
(null)

That is why you are called WOO & not DOO.... D= dumb... + 1 ... :cool:


That was props fail... Intended for Wise Old Owl's post!!!

gizzy bear
01-15-2013, 23:41
Crap !!! My phone sucks!!! Good job WOO!!

kayak karl
01-16-2013, 00:10
i saw that. if he just said I'm sorry, wasn't thinking, got caught up in the moment, the shelter mice told me to do it; anything and i would of thought better of him. its not going to go away till he mans up.

prain4u
01-16-2013, 00:40
If I am correct, it seems like the photo and the bashing comments are no longer on his Trail Journal site--unless I am missing something.

mfleming
01-16-2013, 01:02
Good point Alligator. Two wrong dint make a right

mfleming
01-16-2013, 01:03
Don't.........

MuddyWaters
01-16-2013, 04:42
Serious? Graffitti goes as far back as man, Anastasi,
http://www.discovermoab.com/images/U279_petroglyphs.jpg


Reading the Writing on Pompeii’s Walls

To better understand the ancient Roman world, one archaeologist looks at the graffiti


http://media.smithsonianmag.com/images/Pompeii-street-graffiti-631.jpg

Cave art in France
before your time

http://customtripplanning.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/morse-ralph-20-000-year-old-lascaux-cave-painting-done-by-cro-magnon-man-in-the-dordogne-region-france.jpg

So forget it ... folks do it - its wrong - its human nature going back 100,000 years. Get a grip folks.... Yea I am blunt.. I am working on this.... :rolleyes:

You are wrong.

Its not graffiti unless it is put on SOMEONE ELSES PROPERTY without their consent

You cannot equate cave art with graffiti, any more than you can a picture on your wall at home.

You have zero knowledge of why and under what circumstances most things from the past were written or drawn
To call most things graffiti is ridiculous.

bfayer
01-16-2013, 06:59
Ok... no prob. He can be held accountable to the law of the land, then. He doesn't need to be verbally harassed by people that need to "vent". That's the way we do it on the internet, these days, and that is wrong. No excuses.
I will say that I was terribly disappointed when I saw what he had done, myself. You cannot control what others do but you can control your own behavior, at all times. Verbally assaulting someone for their bad behavior, IMHO, is not cool. Do I think we should have told him that what he had done was a crime? Absolutely. But, call him a DB and worse?... not so much!

And yes, I do speed sometimes... VRRRRRRRRooommmm.

I agree HikerMom,

I was trying to address the behavior not the individual. The post that got me spooled up was the one telling us folks critical of defacing public property "you suck" because we hurt his feelings. I think if we are going to be critical of someones actions we need to stick with the actions and not turn it in to a slam fest of the person themselves. We spend way to much time nowadays trying not the hurt peoples feeling and we fail to address antisocial behavior because of it. People can't correct their behavior if no one speaks up.

The exception of course is when an individual has clearly done something that proves beyond doubt they deserve it. I have no problem calling some people what they are when they have earned it, but for most people we need to keep it to the behavior not the individual.

BirdBrain
01-16-2013, 08:18
OK everyone, I'm going to ask that you all take a step away from the keyboard and take a deep breath. And when you come back to the keyboard, you'll be calm, and you'll keep the personal attacks to none. Discuss the subject, not each other.

Okay. I need help understanding why this is allowed at all. I was looking for a moderator to jump in. What I see is a mother saying "I'm going to count to 3 and you better stop". You should just stop the stuff already. People are not acting properly. Don't act like they are. Delete this crap already.

I, ignorantly, tried to debate about food practices in shelters on 2 other threads. Dangerous bears are create by people who (willfully or ignorantly) provide food to bears. I expected this to be an important fact in the debate. It was not. All I heard was I have walked to Jupiter and back and you are wrong. It is like saying that you have driven drunk for years and your actions has not hurt anyone yet.

Then you have a bunch of people saying crazy things about something some kid did to a piece of dead wood. Yes, he should not have done it, but it isn't even in the same universe as creating a dangerous bear. Yes, there are dangerous bears. Yes, lazy or ignorant people providing food (through action or inaction) to bears is one way of creating one. That piece of wood is not going to hurt you, but the bear might kill you.

Please moderator, do your job. Get this crap off Whiteblaze. Your site is taking a hit. People are losing respect and/or laughing at the idiotic posts by tough guys hiding behind a keyboard. What is the upside of these discussions?

hikerboy57
01-16-2013, 08:22
Ender is a moderater.name in red

Lone Wolf
01-16-2013, 08:23
Okay. I need help understanding why this is allowed at all. I was looking for a moderator to jump in. What I see is a mother saying "I'm going to count to 3 and you better stop". You should just stop the stuff already. People are not acting properly. Don't act like they are. Delete this crap already.

I, ignorantly, tried to debate about food practices in shelters on 2 other threads. Dangerous bears are create by people who (willfully or ignorantly) provide food to bears. I expected this to be an important fact in the debate. It was not. All I heard was I have walked to Jupiter and back and you are wrong. It is like saying that you have driven drunk for years and your actions has not hurt anyone yet.

Then you have a bunch of people saying crazy things about something some kid did to a piece of dead wood. Yes, he should not have done it, but it isn't even in the same universe as creating a dangerous bear. Yes, there are dangerous bears. Yes, lazy or ignorant people providing food (through action or inaction) to bears is one way of creating one. That piece of wood is not going to hurt you, but the bear might kill you.

Please moderator, do your job. Get this crap off Whiteblaze. Your site is taking a hit. People are losing respect and/or laughing at the idiotic posts by tough guys hiding behind a keyboard. What is the upside of these discussions?
Trailplace could use new members. most there are sticks-in-the-mud. you may like it there

Chaco Taco
01-16-2013, 08:27
yep, winter on whiteblaze

BirdBrain
01-16-2013, 08:41
Ender is a moderater.name in red

That is why I responded to his statement. I am looking for him to cut the vine so the branches have no place to grow. Ignorant inflammatory statements have no place on this site. I know if I was a moderator it would not be tolerated. Only the lower life forms would be effected. Get rid of them and their posts. I am here to learn, not hear how tough someone is.

Karma13
01-16-2013, 08:45
Ignorant inflammatory statements have no place on this site.

Irony abounds.

hikerboy57
01-16-2013, 08:48
That is why I responded to his statement. I am looking for him to cut the vine so the branches have no place to grow. Ignorant inflammatory statements have no place on this site. I know if I was a moderator it would not be tolerated. Only the lower life forms would be effected. Get rid of them and their posts. I am here to learn, not hear how tough someone is.e
ignorant inflammatory statements are what make whiteblaze interesting.funny you should call for more censorship.what are we supposed to argue about the rest of the day?
just put the ignorant inflammatory people on ignore.you dont have to engage you know

BirdBrain
01-16-2013, 08:51
Trailplace could use new members. most there are sticks-in-the-mud. you may like it there

I have read many of your posts. I agree with most of your views. Perhaps I am a stick in the mud. I will take that criticism and consider it. My feelings are not going to be hurt. I have lived long enough to not be bothered by names and tough guy statements toward me. Have at it. Perhaps you will say something we both can laugh at. I am just having a hard time understanding the value of many of the statements said here. It is likely that kid could kick the ass of many of the tough guy loud mouths on here. Perhaps they should say their insults to his face instead of acting tough on here. Perhaps a moderator should shut down the account of such loud mouths. Perhaps I am full of crap. Like I said, I am here to learn.

I am staying on Whitebalze because of the things I can learn from people with more experience than I. But, thank you for the suggestion. I will check it out.

BirdBrain
01-16-2013, 08:57
e
ignorant inflammatory statements are what make whiteblaze interesting.funny you should call for more censorship.what are we supposed to argue about the rest of the day?
just put the ignorant inflammatory people on ignore.you dont have to engage you know

Can I get a transfusion from you. Need a bit of the duck feathers you have. I need to read more and type less. I understand the entertainment value, but it all seems out of proportion. People care about a piece of dead wood to the point of swearing at each other, but don't care about how their food practices change the normal behavior of animals. Scratching head....

mtnkngxt
01-16-2013, 08:59
I have read many of your posts. I agree with most of your views. Perhaps I am a stick in the mud. I will take that criticism and consider it. My feelings are not going to be hurt. I have lived long enough to not be bothered by names and tough guy statements toward me. Have at it. Perhaps you will say something we both can laugh at. I am just having a hard time understanding the value of many of the statements said here. It is likely that kid could kick the ass of many of the tough guy loud mouths on here. Perhaps they should say their insults to his face instead of acting tough on here. Perhaps a moderator should shut down the account of such loud mouths. Perhaps I am full of crap. Like I said, I am here to learn.

I am staying on Whitebalze because of the things I can learn from people with more experience than I. But, thank you for the suggestion. I will check it out.

R U Cereal? How did we go from your fear of danger bears to your lack of impressment with this kid carving his name, and finally to your unsubstantiated position that he could kick our collective hind sides.

I recommend you switch to decaf.

Can it be March yet??

hikerboy57
01-16-2013, 09:00
Can I get a transfusion from you. Need a bit of the duck feathers you have. I need to read more and type less. I understand the entertainment value, but it all seems out of proportion. People care about a piece of dead wood to the point of swearing at each other, but don't care about how their food practices change the normal behavior of animals. Scratching head....

every possible question about thru hiking the at has already been answered here, including if you should hang your dentures in your food bag.in addition, we're all stuck behing the keyboards and not hiking, so theres some frustration that comes out in the posts.logic doesnt exist in the real world, and as i said on anothre popular thread, those who see the world as black and white are missing out on the infinite shades of gray.
its all good.

The Cleaner
01-16-2013, 09:06
To those who live near the AT....more hikin'......less yackin' ......:eek:

BirdBrain
01-16-2013, 09:06
R U Cereal? How did we go from your fear of danger bears to your lack of impressment with this kid carving his name, and finally to your unsubstantiated position that he could kick our collective hind sides.

I recommend you switch to decaf.

Can it be March yet??

Not afraid of bears. Not afraid of any animal in the woods. Just saying some kid carving his name in a piece of dead wood is ignorant, but does not deserve a bunch of tough guys hiding behind keyboards beating him up and that they would likely not do it to his face. No, I am not changing to decaf. Moving on. Should not have posted on this thread again. Going back to looking for valuable information of which there is a ton on this site.

mtnkngxt
01-16-2013, 09:18
Not afraid of bears. Not afraid of any animal in the woods. Just saying some kid carving his name in a piece of dead wood is ignorant, but does not deserve a bunch of tough guys hiding behind keyboards beating him up and that they would likely not do it to his face. No, I am not changing to decaf. Moving on. Should not have posted on this thread again. Going back to looking for valuable information of which there is a ton on this site.

Didn't your mama teach that name calling was rude? I ate two Larabars this morning and some Greek yogurt, I'm a real world tough guy, and I don't own a keyboard.

OzJacko
01-16-2013, 09:20
It all seems just so sad that so many in todays world cannot recognise there is a difference between being famous and being infamous.
I think this thread has beat itself to a pulp and should now die.
It's a shame that the his TrailJournal guestbook has now become a sad sight as well.

bfayer
01-16-2013, 09:30
Not afraid of bears. Not afraid of any animal in the woods. Just saying some kid carving his name in a piece of dead wood is ignorant, but does not deserve a bunch of tough guys hiding behind keyboards beating him up and that they would likely not do it to his face. No, I am not changing to decaf. Moving on. Should not have posted on this thread again. Going back to looking for valuable information of which there is a ton on this site.

I have yet to say anything on here, that I wouldn't say to someone face to face, and I think that goes for most of the people on here.

The people on WB are some of the most helpful and respectful people on the internet and if you think this forum needs to be toned down, you must not spend much time on other internet forums.

WB is a paradise of civility compared to most.

Ender
01-16-2013, 09:35
Hey BirdBrain,

I'll explain briefly what my reasoning was. Mainly, I try to avoid deleting posts if at all possible. People get worked up some times, even the best and calmest of people can get bit by the internet argument bug. So my first step is almost always to remind people to be kind to each other. And you know what? It usually works. Some times people need a second reminder, but more often than not they realize that they're getting all worked up for little reason.

That said, if something is bad enough I'll delete it outright. But as far as deleting any and all inflammatory posts, that's a hazy line that can be drawn... what one person considers inflammatory others may find totally benign.

So yes, I could just go about deleting any and all inflammatory posts, but since the whole idea of this forum is open discussion, and yes sometimes discussion leads to arguments, I try first to calm people down.

I hope that helps to clarify. And as always, if you do find something totally offensive, report the post by clicking on the little caution icon under each post. It alerts us moderators to take a special look at the post and then decide if action needs to be taken. This is especially helpful to us mods, as there are TONS of posts for us to go through, and we can easily miss things... this isn't our full time job after all, we just do this whenever we're able.


Okay. I need help understanding why this is allowed at all. I was looking for a moderator to jump in. What I see is a mother saying "I'm going to count to 3 and you better stop". You should just stop the stuff already. People are not acting properly. Don't act like they are. Delete this crap already.

I, ignorantly, tried to debate about food practices in shelters on 2 other threads. Dangerous bears are create by people who (willfully or ignorantly) provide food to bears. I expected this to be an important fact in the debate. It was not. All I heard was I have walked to Jupiter and back and you are wrong. It is like saying that you have driven drunk for years and your actions has not hurt anyone yet.

Then you have a bunch of people saying crazy things about something some kid did to a piece of dead wood. Yes, he should not have done it, but it isn't even in the same universe as creating a dangerous bear. Yes, there are dangerous bears. Yes, lazy or ignorant people providing food (through action or inaction) to bears is one way of creating one. That piece of wood is not going to hurt you, but the bear might kill you.

Please moderator, do your job. Get this crap off Whiteblaze. Your site is taking a hit. People are losing respect and/or laughing at the idiotic posts by tough guys hiding behind a keyboard. What is the upside of these discussions?

ChuckBrown
01-16-2013, 09:38
Having participated in the building of a shelter, with all volunteers, over a two month period, I am against what was done. It was a stupid to carve but even more stupid to post on the internet.

Reminds of the guy a few years ago, who was on the second level of a shelter. It was pouring rain out, he needed to pee, so he relieved himself in the shelter, over in the corner, then put it in his journal(LOL). Stupid to do, but dont post it on the world wide web.

BirdBrain
01-16-2013, 09:46
I have yet to say anything on here, that I wouldn't say to someone face to face, and I think that goes for most of the people on here.

The people on WB are some of the most helpful and respectful people on the internet and if you think this forum needs to be toned down, you must not spend much time on other internet forums.

WB is a paradise of civility compared to most.

Yes, I am new to this form of communication. Perhaps I have lived a sheltered life. Perhaps this is "normal" in the real world. I am honestly trying to come to grips with how you guys go at each other. I have seen plenty of conflict in person. In the moment, all kinds of regretful things happen. I have said my fair share of regretful things in the moment. I just expected that if a person had time to type a mesage, that same person would have time to consider if it was proper. It was an ignorant expectation.

Thank you Ender for the clarification. This is not my site and it is good to hear from the powers that be. I will defer to your thoughts. To borrow HB's phrase, Its all good.

OzJacko
01-16-2013, 09:48
Fences are funny things.
The view from both sides is pretty similar when you're close to it....

Gray Blazer
01-16-2013, 09:57
gray blazer wuz here

19034

gizzy bear
01-16-2013, 09:59
gray blazer wuz here

19034


+1 funny ***** right thar!!!

gizzy bear
01-16-2013, 10:09
a california roll at a stop sign is against the law... i would be willing to bet we have a lot of "rollers" out there preaching about what is right and wrong....but that is ok...hypocrisy much?

and for the record...i don't graffitti....BUT...i do rip the tags off of matresses...

MDSection12
01-16-2013, 10:25
Yes, I am new to this form of communication.
Trust me, he's right. If this thread bothers you then DO NOT go to any other forum on the internet. 'Flaming' is something that is almost non-existent here, but very, very common on most other forums.

BirdBrain
01-16-2013, 10:34
Testing out my new signature. It seems fitting.

aficion
01-16-2013, 10:39
This thread is very instructive. Never would have thought a rifle could shoot itself in the foot. Masochism personified.

Mags
01-16-2013, 10:44
You cannot equate cave art with graffiti, any more than you can a picture on your wall at home.




Er..the Ancient Puebloan drawings are not on a cave. They were on outside (read: natural) structures and sometimes in public areas.

The Pompeii graffiti was just that: Graffiti. Public places and all. Just happens to be 2000 yrs old and remarkably similar to what people write today.

BirdBrain
01-16-2013, 10:49
To get back on topic, here is my take of the carving your name on a shelter.
1) I would not do it because it does not belong to me.
2) I would have done it when I was young and did not have as much respect for other people's property.
3) I am going to remember that I did not always feel the way I do today.
4) I am not going to take a holier than thou stance and pretend that I am perfect in all my dealings.
5) I am not going to pretend I am God and claim to be able to discern his thoughts and intents.
6) I am not going to inflame this into the crime of the century.
7) I am going to give this young man the benefit of the doubt that he will mature to the great stature of all his critics and be as great and perfect as them some day.

Chaco Taco
01-16-2013, 10:54
6) I am not going to inflame this into the crime of the century.

Says post #225

Chaco Taco
01-16-2013, 10:54
No wait #235:-?

gizzy bear
01-16-2013, 10:55
I am going to give this young man the benefit of the doubt that he will mature to the great stature of all his critics and be as great and perfect as them some day.

+1 nicely said

gizzy bear
01-16-2013, 10:57
Er..the Ancient Puebloan drawings are not on a cave. They were on outside (read: natural) structures and sometimes in public areas.

The Pompeii graffiti was just that: Graffiti. Public places and all. Just happens to be 2000 yrs old and remarkably similar to what people write today.

hey mags...is it illegal to graffitti on WB?? cuz gray blazer did... and i'm tellin!!

mtnkngxt
01-16-2013, 11:23
I love this thread so much

HikerMom58
01-16-2013, 11:25
To get back on topic, here is my take of the carving your name on a shelter.
1) I would not do it because it does not belong to me.
2) I would have done it when I was young and did not have as much respect for other people's property.
3) I am going to remember that I did not always feel the way I do today.
4) I am not going to take a holier than thou stance and pretend that I am perfect in all my dealings.
5) I am not going to pretend I am God and claim to be able to discern his thoughts and intents.
6) I am not going to inflame this into the crime of the century.
7) I am going to give this young man the benefit of the doubt that he will mature to the great stature of all his critics and be as great and perfect as them some day.

And to that I will add...
1) I hope that Rifle has received all the thoughts and opinions of those speaking the truth, in love, well. May he think about things/see things in a different way then he may have thought about them before now. ( i hope he remains teachable)

2) I hope that he can continue on his journey in good spirits. If he comes to the conclusion that he did, in fact, do something that he wished he didn't do. I pray that he doesn't let his shortcomings define him as a person. We would all be in a bad way if that were the case.

3) I hope he realizes that others can be cruel and vows never to be like that himself.


BB.... I'm most likely the most sheltered person on this site. In my family, we thought it was rude if we told someone to shut up.

Now, with this type of communication we have on the internet it's a perfect way for people to be themselves which may be very different then what you/myself are used 2.

All the pent up anger & unresolved personal issues can come out & they can look "cool" to boot. It's a win win. :)

We can't take each other too seriously on here. I've learned that. I love people so I stick around to enjoy their company, laugh (a lot) and learn. I learn about hiking but I really like the people. ;)

bfayer
01-16-2013, 11:33
7) I am going to give this young man the benefit of the doubt that he will mature to the great stature of all his critics and be as great and perfect as them some day.

See this is the problem, he is not 12 he is 25 the maturing thing should have happened a few years ago.

One thing I do in life is volunteer as a Boy Scout leader, I try my best to instill respect and responsibility in 11 to 17 year olds. Peer pressure is a powerful force and it is something we work against everyday. When these kids see full grown adults doing this kind of thing, how do we fight that kind of example?

If you have never been involved in Scouting you need to understand that a significant number of kids involved in Scouting are not the "good kids" they are kids at risk and need all the positive examples they can get.

The way immature adults learn to be mature adults is to be held accountable for their actions by other adults. 25 year olds don't get a pass from me for being immature.

Nobody on here is saying they are perfect, and by your standard we can't call out another adult for doing stupid stuff unless we are perfect ourselves. Well that is a standard no one can ever meet, so we all should keep our mouths shut, and let everyone do whatever they want? That should work out just swell.

There are a lot of great people that work their butt off to build and maintain facilities on the AT and they deserve to have someone stand up for them and tell people that do damage to these facilities to grow up and knock out off.

That's all people on here were doing.

coach lou
01-16-2013, 11:44
It's just carvin'........................I just hope I don't loose my 'totem chip'

bfayer
01-16-2013, 11:47
It's just carvin'........................I just hope I don't loose my 'totem chip'

No we'll just cut a corner off :)

BirdBrain
01-16-2013, 11:54
See this is the problem, he is not 12 he is 25 the maturing thing should have happened a few years ago.

Nobody on here is saying they are perfect, and by your standard we can't call out another adult for doing stupid stuff unless we are perfect ourselves. Well that is a standard no one can ever meet, so we all should keep our mouths shut, and let everyone do whatever they want? That should work out just swell.

There are a lot of great people that work their butt off to build and maintain facilities on the AT and they deserve to have someone stand up for them and tell people that do damage to these facilities to grow up and knock out off.

That's all people on here were doing.

Not everyone matures at the same rate. I agree it is intolerable and disrespectful behavior. I agree, he should be called out. He has been completely called out. No you don't have to be perfect. No one is. But, given the rhetoric, some people are acting like they never do anything wrong. I am very thankful for the efforts of those that volunteer there time and resources. Yes, they have every right to be upset. Yes, they deserve voices that speak on their behalf. No, that is not all that is being done here. People are going over the top a bit. I, for one, remember doing many things in my life that I am not proud of. I am 51 and hope to learn a bit more as I age. I have not arrived. I am thankful for those that have helped me mature through understanding and discipline when my actions warranted it. It is just that when I hear of an offense that I have done in my life, my 1st reaction is to cringe knowing that I have failed in the past. It is not to grab a shovel and beat people over the head. I am not saying it should be tolerated. I am saying acting tough behind a keyboard is not the best approach. Do you want to change the behavior or just show how great and tough you are? Reason with the guy. He might be open to that. Yell at him and see how that works. I know how I would react and how most people would react.

HikerMom58
01-16-2013, 11:56
No we'll just cut a corner off :)

It's just walkin... It's just carvin... We're just talkin... :)

bfayer
01-16-2013, 12:00
Not everyone matures at the same rate. I agree it is intolerable and disrespectful behavior. I agree, he should be called out. He has been completely called out. No you don't have to be perfect. No one is. But, given the rhetoric, some people are acting like they never do anything wrong. I am very thankful for the efforts of those that volunteer there time and resources. Yes, they have every right to be upset. Yes, they deserve voices that speak on their behalf. No, that is not all that is being done here. People are going over the top a bit. I, for one, remember doing many things in my life that I am not proud of. I am 51 and hope to learn a bit more as I age. I have not arrived. I am thankful for those that have helped me mature through understanding and discipline when my actions warranted it. It is just that when I hear of an offense that I have done in my life, my 1st reaction is to cringe knowing that I have failed in the past. It is not to grab a shovel and beat people over the head. I am not saying it should be tolerated. I am saying acting tough behind a keyboard is not the best approach. Do you want to change the behavior or just show how great and tough you are? Reason with the guy. He might be open to that. Yell at him and see how that works. I know how I would react and how most people would react.

Well we have common ground. Now all we have to do is define "beating over the head" :)

BirdBrain
01-16-2013, 12:02
Well we have common ground. Now all we have to do is define "beating over the head" :)

Yes we do. And I thank you sir for your efforts to help better many young men.

gizzy bear
01-16-2013, 12:03
See this is the problem, he is not 12 he is 25 the maturing thing should have happened a few years ago.

One thing I do in life is volunteer as a Boy Scout leader, I try my best to instill respect and responsibility in 11 to 17 year olds. Peer pressure is a powerful force and it is something we work against everyday. When these kids see full grown adults doing this kind of thing, how do we fight that kind of example?

If you have never been involved in Scouting you need to understand that a significant number of kids involved in Scouting are not the "good kids" they are kids at risk and need all the positive examples they can get.

The way immature adults learn to be mature adults is to be held accountable for their actions by other adults. 25 year olds don't get a pass from me for being immature.

Nobody on here is saying they are perfect, and by your standard we can't call out another adult for doing stupid stuff unless we are perfect ourselves. Well that is a standard no one can ever meet, so we all should keep our mouths shut, and let everyone do whatever they want? That should work out just swell.

There are a lot of great people that work their butt off to build and maintain facilities on the AT and they deserve to have someone stand up for them and tell people that do damage to these facilities to grow up and knock out off.

That's all people on here were doing.

thank you for sharing you knowledge of the boy scouts and how to properly instill respect, responsibilty and being a positive example ... with that being said, wouldn't it have been more respectful/more productive to pm the guy? ?

Tuckahoe
01-16-2013, 12:03
a california roll at a stop sign is against the law... i would be willing to bet we have a lot of "rollers" out there preaching about what is right and wrong....but that is ok...hypocrisy much?

and for the record...i don't graffitti....BUT...i do rip the tags off of matresses...

Do you not understand the difference between damaging public or private property and rolling a stop sign? Both are illegal, but only one of them is an act that in itself is wrong, whether made illegal or not.