Overdue hiker found dead in Smokies

[SGT Rock]

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2013/jan/16/overdue-hiker-found-dead-in-smokies/

Sad.

[leaftye]

:(

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[Bags4266]

Not much info. very sad nontheless.

[Cookerhiker]

I'm sorry for the victim and his family.

Hypothermia strikes again?

[SGT Rock]

No idea. I'll post if I see something in the local news.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

[bigcranky]

Sucks. Very sorry for his family.

[HikerMom58]

^^^^^ Ditto^^^^^^ :(

[wildbilltn]

I just read that a hiker was found dead at Tri-Corner Knob shelter today, after he failed to meet a companion. No identity yet on the 50 year old man, who was hiking from Newfound Gap to Davenport Gap.

Pray for this fellow and his family, and ya'll be careful out there.

[Magic_Rat]

A link to an article:

http://www.wate.com/story/20606754/hikers-body-found-on-appalachian-trail-shelter

[Josh Calhoun]

oh no, prayers out for his family and freinds. Rifle should be somewhere in the GSMNP, wonder if he found him

[Josh Calhoun]

sorry just read it again, rangers found him

[Josh Calhoun]

always a sad sad day when we loose a fellow hiker, prayers for his family and friends.

[joshuasdad]

I'm sorry for the victim and his family.

Hypothermia strikes again?

I would guess the opposite. I was out hiking Sunday and was overheating at 4000+ ft near Pearisburg. It was 70+ F, and I went through 3 L of water in the first 10 miles (leaving 1 L for the last 11).

Of note, that section he did is quite dry, you need to go way off the trail to get water as you are on a dry ridgeline pretty much the last 13 miles. There is also a significant uphill up to Tricorner Knob. My guess is dehydration + overexertion.

This has been a rough week between the father + kids in the Ozarks, and this instance. I wish their families the best.

[Lyle]

Yeah, condolences to family and friends.

Until more info is known, it's kind of premature to be speculating that it was hypothermia. Yeah, a definite possibility, but so is a diabetic problem, heart attack, stroke or any number of other scenarios.

Sad to here, no matter.

[P-Train]

http://www.wbir.com/news/article/249688/2/Appalachian-Trail-hiker-found-dead


Sad to hear the news, hope to find out more as the day goes on.

[Coffee Rules!]

Damn. So sad. :(

[moldy]

He was in Tri-corner knob shelter. No evidence of foul play.

[Mrs Baggins]

Someone in the comments section of the article said that another hiker reported meeting him on the trail and that he was "wet and cold."

[flemdawg1]

Wow counting the 2 on the Ozark trail that's 4 in the last week. By careful out there folk, 30s and rainy is deadlier than snow and teens.

[Malto]

Isn't that the same shelter where the AT thru was stuck during Sandy? I stayed there in December during a snow/ice storm. That shelter had a bad vibe.

Sad to hear, another reminder to play it safe.

[GST]

http://www.wate.com/story/20606754/hikers-body-found-on-appalachian-trail-shelter

[Tuckahoe]

I would guess the opposite. I was out hiking Sunday and was overheating at 4000+ ft near Pearisburg. It was 70+ F, and I went through 3 L of water in the first 10 miles (leaving 1 L for the last 11).

Of note, that section he did is quite dry, you need to go way off the trail to get water as you are on a dry ridgeline pretty much the last 13 miles. There is also a significant uphill up to Tricorner Knob. My guess is dehydration + overexertion.

This has been a rough week between the father + kids in the Ozarks, and this instance. I wish their families the best.

I'll wait to see what is reported on the cause of death. But I would point out that hypothermia can easily be an issue when the temps are in the 70s.

[Rain Man]

Wild speculations are way too premature about any details of this hiker's death.

Yet, whenever I read about a hiker dying while hiking the AT, I am reminded of other ways to go, such as a slow, painful, lingering, horribly expensive death in some hospital. And I wonder which way I'd prefer to go. That said, in these cases, patience is a virtue to wait until the facts are told.

Condolences to his family and friends.

Rain Man

.

[coach lou]

There are now at least FOUR threads on WB about this death.

.

I will only count this one once. I am keeping a count this year, in a few seasons I will have an answer to my original question last year.

[HikerMom58]

L, I don't recall that thread but I think you are wise to keep a record yourself. Some people find the subject uncomfortable for some reason. I'm always curious about that as well. I think 2010 was a bad year for deaths in shelters on the AT. I'm sure you won't be a stat. yourself.. LOL. There are so many on WB that are sectioning the AT. When y'all finish, it would be interesting to know how many "sectioners" bump up the # of people that have hiked the entire AT.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Wild speculations are way too premature about any details of this hiker's death.Yet, whenever I read about a hiker dying while hiking the AT, I am reminded of other ways to go, such as a slow, painful, lingering, horribly expensive death in some hospital. And I wonder which way I'd prefer to go. That said, in these cases, patience is a virtue to wait until the facts are told.Condolences to his family and friends.Rain Man.

Agree with Rainman...


As a standard reminder to all, everything posted on whiteblaze is searchable by google. Anything posted here will likely be seen by the family and friends of the deceased as they search the web for info about the incident. Please be tactful.

[hikerboy57]

for all we know he may have just had a heart attack. lets wait for the details

[rambunny]

Someone once told me you were the furthest from a road on the AT at that shelter.

[Papa D]

I agree with Hikerboy - wait for details.

That said, speaking in general terms, hypothermia can be a killer at surprisingly "high" temperatures and being wet and 60-something degrees, tired and perhaps dehydrated is the formula for that. Surprisingly, people don't get hypothermic as much in super cold winter conditions at places like ski-resorts because they are typically more prepared and the precipitation isn't as likely to soak their core as would a cold rain on a foggy day.

Of course this could be way off the mark - could be anything from stroke, heart attack, seizure, diabetic coma, accidental ingestion of some antigen, or a combination of these factors - or something completely different.

Very sorry for the family and friends.

[Slo-go'en]

Since this happened in the Smokies, its possible he wasn't in very good shape or wasn't very experianced or didn't have proper gear. We will likely never know.

[BirdShooter]

I was backpacking this past weekend in the same area. We stayed at Cosby Knob Shelter Saturday night and some of our group had lunch at Tri-Corner earlier that afternoon. During the NPS search, some members of our group got called by the NPS ranger. Sounds like the guy was new to backpacking and didn't have the best gear. I'm sure more details will follow in the next day or two, but your thread is likely correct on hypothermia being the cause.

[joshuasdad]

Isn't that the same shelter where the AT thru was stuck during Sandy? I stayed there in December during a snow/ice storm. That shelter had a bad vibe.

Sad to hear, another reminder to play it safe.

It is the same shelter. I was there on Thanksgiving evening this year after hiking up to it from Davenport Gap. It is the most remote place in the entire state of Tennessee, as measured by distance from a road.

As a note, after doing a very similar hike in the Smokies (Clingmans to Russell Field), I started a thread here about possible altitude sickness in the smokies. WBers attributed my condition to dehydration and overexertion. I was chilling horribly (despite being in a 20 degree bag at above freezing temperatures), had a horrible cough, fever, and actually had some chest tightness.

I actually fared much better the next hike, which was the seemingly more difficult Davenport to Tricorner one, partially because of your great advice, such as, drink more water at altitude, as your body purges water to increase your blood thickness to deal with the altitude.

I agree that we should not wildly speculate as to causes of death. On the other hand, I think that providing context for the medical examiners (possibly via the family reading this forum) may be helpful.

The reason I commented (perhaps not tactfully enough) earlier is that I don't want people to make the mistake that I did in thinking that hypothermia was the only major danger in the Smokies. Proper temperature and hydration management are also critical.

Also, based on my experience just several weeks earlier in jumping up from sea level to START a 15+ mile hike at 6000+ ft, makes me realize that this hiker could have easily been me, or another fellow WB section hiker. While popping out 15-20 mile days in VA to MA may be easy for a section hiker, there is a hidden danger when that same hiker starts a hike at relatively high altitude, expecting to perform similarly as a low altitude hike.

Again, my sympathies go out to the family of this fellow section hiker.

[Coffee Rules!]

Wild speculations are way too premature about any details of this hiker's death.

Yet, whenever I read about a hiker dying while hiking the AT, I am reminded of other ways to go, such as a slow, painful, lingering, horribly expensive death in some hospital. And I wonder which way I'd prefer to go. That said, in these cases, patience is a virtue to wait until the facts are told.

Condolences to his family and friends.

Rain Man

.


Agree with Rainman...


As a standard reminder to all, everything posted on whiteblaze is searchable by google. Anything posted here will likely be seen by the family and friends of the deceased as they search the web for info about the incident. Please be tactful.

A double hear, hear!

[Cookerhiker]

A double hear, hear!

I agree - sorry I was the first to mention hypothermia. I guess with the recent tragedy in Missouri and the cold rain & dampness we've had here in KY for days on end, it just came to my mind.

[Coffee Rules!]

I agree - sorry I was the first to mention hypothermia. I guess with the recent tragedy in Missouri and the cold rain & dampness we've had here in KY for days on end, it just came to my mind.

It happens, dude. It's human nature to speculate on things like this. No ball busting from here.

[Slo-go'en]

I agree - sorry I was the first to mention hypothermia. I guess with the recent tragedy in Missouri and the cold rain & dampness we've had here in KY for days on end, it just came to my mind.

Well, that's a good guess and a very good possibility, especially if he was inexperianced and unprepared. Sometimes it can even happen to the best of us.

[hikerboy57]

Well, that's a good guess and a very good possibility, especially if he was inexperianced and unprepared. Sometimes it can even happen to the best of us.

i dont remember reading anything about him being inexperienced or unprepared.
facts might help our blind conjecture

[Slo-go'en]

i dont remember reading anything about him being inexperienced or unprepared.
facts might help our blind conjecture

Refer back to post #31:


During the NPS search, some members of our group got called by the NPS ranger. Sounds like the guy was new to backpacking and didn't have the best gear. I'm sure more details will follow in the next day or two, but your thread is likely correct on hypothermia being the cause.

[hikernutcasey]

This has been a bad week to be in the Smokies. A hiker loses his life, someone died in a traffic accident involving a park employee and a 200' section of Hwy 441 was washed over 1000' down the mountain.

Condolences to all who lost loved ones.

[hikerboy57]

Refer back to post #31:

it would have been helpful if poster #31 had furnished some information that led him to make that statement. its still conjecture.what led him to that conclusion?

[johnnybgood]

So sad, my sympathies go out to the family.

[Time Traveler]

Hi all, I'm actually working for the park service at the time, they are trying to air lift this fellow out today if the winds aren't bad, if not I'm heading up with a crew tomorrow to carry him out. Apparently he planned on hiking from the gap all the way to Davenport in one day. But the story has changed a few times. But for the past week we have had torrential downpours, it would have been very easy to screw up in that situation. Along with that tragedy, a huge chunk of Newfound Gap Road washed out, and probably wont be repaired for up to a year at least. as of right now the whole road is closed but I'm hoping the Gap to Gatlinburg will soon be reopened. I got me some hog traps up there goddamnit.

[SGT Rock]

Update: http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2013/jan/18/dead-smokies-hiker-identified-body-removed-from/

Still no cause of death. My guess is they will not release that until a coroner has had a change to look at him.

[Just a Hiker]

Update: http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2013/jan/18/dead-smokies-hiker-identified-body-removed-from/

Still no cause of death. My guess is they will not release that until a coroner has had a change to look at him.

I was afraid it was Richard....we weren't best friends, but we spoke occasionally, and he told me last week that he was going to hike from Newfound Gap to Davenport Gap this past weekend. He was just getting into long distance hiking and was looking forward to this hike. He was a really nice guy and had a great sense of humor....very sad.

[SGT Rock]

Sorry to hear about your friend.

[Just a Hiker]

Sorry to hear about your friend.

Thanks...I am feeling pretty bad about this because he contacted me last week asking how to dress while hiking in the Smoky's this time of year. I made it very clear to him to be prepared for the worst case senario while hiking in the Smoky's in January.....but of course weather/exposure may not have even been this issue.

[10-K]

I just got back from hiking in some seriously dangerous conditions (flooding) and I took a very, very, very stupid chance combined with making a very, very, very bad decision which resulted in me being stranded - I would likely still be there today waiting for someone to look for me had I not got very lucky and found a spot with cell service - but I'd still be lucky to be alive to have gotten that far.

After I stranded myself and the gravity of my stupidity set in I started thinking about some of the other calculated risks I've taken on hikes and for a brief time decided that I would never hike a long trail solo again.

A smart, experienced hiker can still do some incredibly dumb things.

[bfayer]

I just got back from hiking in some seriously dangerous conditions (flooding) and I took a very, very, very stupid chance combined with making a very, very, very bad decision which resulted in me being stranded - I would likely still be there today waiting for someone to look for me had I not got very lucky and found a spot with cell service - but I'd still be lucky to be alive to have gotten that far.

After I stranded myself and the gravity of my stupidity set in I started thinking about some of the other calculated risks I've taken on hikes and for a brief time decided that I would never hike a long trail solo again.

A smart, experienced hiker can still do some incredibly dumb things.

We are glad you made it back safe.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[tiptoe]

10-K, very glad to hear you are O-K.

[HikerMom58]

10-K, very glad to hear you are O-K.

Yes:sun...... so happy!

[Coffee Rules!]

10-K, glad you made it back intact, only a little worse for wear, and maybe a bit wiser.

[hikerboy57]

great to hear your okay 10k.
its a reminder to me that almost all of us have made a bad decison at some point that when we look back we see how that situation could have quickly unravelled, and just dumb luck kept us out of trouble. its also a reminder to hold judegment on some of these accidents and rescues until all the facts are known.
s*** happens

[RF_ace]

Sadly, I hope they don't close this portion of the trail due the recent unfortunate events, I do enjoy sectioning this part of the park

[Marta]

I just got back from hiking in some seriously dangerous conditions (flooding) and I took a very, very, very stupid chance combined with making a very, very, very bad decision which resulted in me being stranded - I would likely still be there today waiting for someone to look for me had I not got very lucky and found a spot with cell service - but I'd still be lucky to be alive to have gotten that far.

After I stranded myself and the gravity of my stupidity set in I started thinking about some of the other calculated risks I've taken on hikes and for a brief time decided that I would never hike a long trail solo again.

A smart, experienced hiker can still do some incredibly dumb things.

Glad you're okay!

Last Monday I went out for a solo snowshoe trip. Nothing huge, just a few miles in a few hours. I decided not to burden myself with a daypack, so no CCF pad or other first aid supplies. The route I took turned out not to be very popular--no one had been on it since the most recent snowfall. Temp was in the teens. I was dressed to move and couldn't stop without getting chilled. Once or twice it occurred to me that I was violating a number of my own safety rules for solo backcountry travel.

Nothing dangerous happened and I returned home just fine.

When I got back in cell phone range one of the emails I got was from the outdoor club I'd been part of in Charlotte. The president thanked me for having arranged a Wilderness First Aid class for our members. (Taught by Heartfire, BTW. Being certified to teach WFA is one of her many accomplishments.) The day before, Sunday, one of the people on a group hike had fallen and broken his ankle so badly he couldn't hike himself out. They were in very rough terrain in Linville Gorge. Other people on the hike had taken WFA, and put it to use. While I'd been out engaging in risky activities my friend had been undergoing surgery to get a pin in his ankle.

If that had happened to me on my snowshoe trip, in the temperatures I'd been in, I would have died.

To me it was a reminder--NEVER neglect safety precautions. NEVER.

[rocketsocks]

I cannot imagine the pain his family must be going through, very sad indeed.

10K so glad you were able to self rescue, I cannot imagine not making it home to my family.

[leaftye]

To me it was a reminder--NEVER neglect safety precautions. NEVER.

That's why I'll never truly slack pack. I'm always going to bring at least a little food and gear to sleep in. I'll act like I might be forced to spend the night because I might be forced to spend the night. With gear as light as it is, this is a very slight burden.

[Marta]

That's why I'll never truly slack pack. I'm always going to bring at least a little food and gear to sleep in. I'll act like I might be forced to spend the night because I might be forced to spend the night. With gear as light as it is, this is a very slight burden.

That's my normal habit. I ask myself, "If dropped on the spot and could not move, what do I need to survive 24 hours?" I will return to being diligent in asking myself that question before stepping out the door.

[gumball]

Its happened to us too, walking in a group of 3. A trip we will never forget. Glad you are okay.

[10-K]

Mistakes like the ones I just made become experience if you live through them.

I'll be waking up in middle of the night for a while.

[Gramps]

Definitely most sad, whatever the cause. It does give pause to think about how short & precious life is. Always remember one thing- tomorrow is not promised to us. God bless this young man's family in this difficult time.

[10-K]

That's my normal habit. I ask myself, "If dropped on the spot and could not move, what do I need to survive 24 hours?" I will return to being diligent in asking myself that question before stepping out the door.

Marta, I have been restored to sanity as well....

Here is the setup for my situation:

1. I'm hiking alone, on a trail I have not seen another hiker on in 2 weeks.
2. It is pouring down rain.
3. It will be dark in 30 minutes.
4. I have hiked 22 miles already
5. I come to a swollen creek I cannot ford.
6. I am standing right in the middle of an established campsite, complete with fire ring.

My choices:

1. Stop, camp, eat, sleep, evaluate in the morning.

2. Scoot across the raging swollen creek on a 25' log on my butt to get to the other side and maybe hike another mile and make camp.

I am SUCH an idiot for picking #2.

1. If I had fallen off the log I would have been swept downstream and likely drowned by getting snagged and held under.

2. If I didn't drown and was able to even get out of the water it would be dark very quickly, all of my gear would have been soaked, and with temps in the lower 40s and rain coming down hard I would be in an exposure situation.

I'm telling you - it was a horribly bad choice. After getting across the log, losing a shoe, and getting extremely lucky and finding my shoe seconds before it fell into the water I was overjoyed just to be stranded on the wrong side of a raging branch with no way out - but alive and with 2 shoes.

Never again will I do something like that.

It's way worse than my other big mistake which was hiking half day in the wrong direction on the BMT because I "knew" which way to go at a trail intersection and didn't check my maps first... (Another mistake I will not make again BTW).

So, if you live through the stupidity and learn from it you gain some priceless experience. The price however is very high.

[atmilkman]

Marta, I have been restored to sanity as well....

Here is the setup for my situation:

1. I'm hiking alone, on a trail I have not seen another hiker on in 2 weeks.
2. It is pouring down rain.
3. It will be dark in 30 minutes.
4. I have hiked 22 miles already
5. I come to a swollen creek I cannot ford.
6. I am standing right in the middle of an established campsite, complete with fire ring.

My choices:

1. Stop, camp, eat, sleep, evaluate in the morning.

2. Scoot across the raging swollen creek on a 25' log on my butt to get to the other side and maybe hike another mile and make camp.

I am SUCH an idiot for picking #2.

1. If I had fallen off the log I would have been swept downstream and likely drowned by getting snagged and held under.

2. If I didn't drown and was able to even get out of the water it would be dark very quickly, all of my gear would have been soaked, and with temps in the lower 40s and rain coming down hard I would be in an exposure situation.

I'm telling you - it was a horribly bad choice. After getting across the log, losing a shoe, and getting extremely lucky and finding my shoe seconds before it fell into the water I was overjoyed just to be stranded on the wrong side of a raging branch with no way out - but alive and with 2 shoes.

Never again will I do something like that.

It's way worse than my other big mistake which was hiking half day in the wrong direction on the BMT because I "knew" which way to go at a trail intersection and didn't check my maps first... (Another mistake I will not make again BTW).

So, if you live through the stupidity and learn from it you gain some priceless experience. The price however is very high.
10K was the just recently on the Pinhoti?

[10-K]

Yes, on the GA Pinhoti - 12 miles from Mulberry Gap where FS3 crosses Bearpen Branch - 8 miles from Cohutta Overlook.

Footnote: Had I stopped and evaluated I would have discovered I could have walked back out to People's Lake Rd and took a bridge over the creek in question.

[atmilkman]

Yes, on the GA Pinhoti - 12 miles from Mulberry Gap where FS3 crosses Bearpen Branch - 8 miles from Cohutta Overlook.

Footnote: Had I stopped and evaluated I would have discovered I could have walked back out to People's Lake Rd and took a bridge over the creek in question.
Man. Glad to see you made it. I haven't done any of the Georgia section, maybe when I get ready to I could possibly get some pointers. I've done all of the AL part. On a lighter note, How did you like the AL portion of the trail?

[Creek Dancer]

Kudos to Marta and 10-K for reminding us that even very experienced hikers make mistakes. Thank you for your reminders to be safe, especially when hiking solo which I do often. I will remember what you wrote.

[Malto]

10k, thanks for the details. Unfortunately, I probably would have made the same decision you did. Maybe this discussion will get me to think a few seconds longer next time I'm faced with a similar situation.

I also do the same as leafty, I will generally carry most of my normal (thru hiking) gear even on a long day hike. It certainly is easier to make this choice if you have a light base weight. I have the gear to survive most situations that I may encounter, it only makes sense for me to carry it especially in the colder seasons.

[MyName1sMud]

Wild speculations are way too premature about any details of this hiker's death.

Yet, whenever I read about a hiker dying while hiking the AT, I am reminded of other ways to go, such as a slow, painful, lingering, horribly expensive death in some hospital. And I wonder which way I'd prefer to go. That said, in these cases, patience is a virtue to wait until the facts are told.

Condolences to his family and friends.

Rain Man

.

I got to agree with you there Rain Man. There are far worse ways to go than dieing on the AT.

Prayers for his family.

[Slo-go'en]

Had I hike 22 miles in the rain, then came to a campsite on the banks of a swollen and ragging creek, I would have definately taken that as a sign to stop and hope conditions improved in the morning.

It's always a good idea to alway have an extra day's worth of food in the pack in case you get stuck. Tipi walker would say have an extra week's worth, but that a bit extrem.

[Marta]

Sounds pretty sobering, 10 K. It will probably keep you from doing excessively rash things for the next few years, until the effect wears off. :-)

I had a long talk about this with a couple of customers yesterday. (I'm working in a store in Glacier National Park.) They had just watched three women get into kayaks and shove off. It's January and the lake has skims of ice on it. None of the women were wearing dry suits, wet suits, or anything else that would keep them from dying if they fell into the water. One of the women took off her life jacket and sat on it to keep her butt warmer.

Part of the conclusions of our discussion is that even if you are in a group, if no one in the group is prepared for emergencies, you are no safer than if you were solo.

In the example of my snowshoeing trip, if I had broken something to the point of being unable to move, it still would have taken a partner more than an hour to get out and to summon help, then it probably would have taken a couple of hours for help to arrive. At those temperatures one doesn't live three or four hours, lying in the snow.

The customers mentioned going out with groups of snowshoers and being the only ones wearing day packs containing an insulated pad and the ten essentials.

If 10 K had been with someone, that other person wouldn't haven't been able to do much for him if he had fallen in and been swept away except run up and down the bank, watching him drown.

It's not just a matter of solo vs. group that makes situations safe or unsafe. One of the most absurd rescues I've ever heard of was a group of Boy Scouts from Gastonia who got "stranded" in the Grayson Highlands. Eleven adults and more than 20 kids. One of the adults was quoted in the newspaper as saying they couldn't have made any bad decisions because all the adults had agreed on what to do.

[10-K]

Marta, I hear exactly what you're saying.

I think in my situation having someone else with me would have almost certainly prevented me from getting on that log because there would have been a discussion and the foolishness of what I was thinking about doing would have been exposed because whoever was with me would have pointed out how dumb it was.

There is also the likelihood that an extra set of eyes would have noticed that the branch I was trying to cross was the wrong branch and that, once across, I would not only still not be on the trail but I'd be trapped and unable to go forwards or backwards.

I am glad I learned this lesson and the lesson about consulting my map even when I'm "sure" before I hike the PCT next year.....

My log:

[SGT Rock]

Marta, I hear exactly what you're saying.

I think in my situation having someone else with me would have almost certainly prevented me from getting on that log because there would have been a discussion and the foolishness of what I was thinking about doing would have been exposed because whoever was with me would have pointed out how dumb it was.

There is also the likelihood that an extra set of eyes would have noticed that the branch I was trying to cross was the wrong branch and that, once across, I would not only still not be on the trail but I'd be trapped and unable to go forwards or backwards.

I am glad I learned this lesson and the lesson about consulting my map even when I'm "sure" before I hike the PCT next year.....

My log:

Groups aren't always going to be safer. Sometimes the dynamic is where no one wants to be the wimp, so everyone goes further or faster than they would alone.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

[bfayer]

Groups aren't always going to be safer. Sometimes the dynamic is where no one wants to be the wimp, so everyone goes further or faster than they would alone.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

That is so true.

I remember a post on here some time a year or so ago about a group that found themselves in a situation similar to 10K.

They found a axe and began to chop down trees to make a "bridge" so they did not have to wait another day for the river to drop.

Groups do not make things safer, well chosen groups make things safer.

I'll see if I can find the thread.

Back on topic, my prayers go out to the family. It is times like this I realize what my wife goes through when I am out hiking with the kids.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[Left Hand]

Condolences to his family and loved ones.

[Marta]

Groups aren't always going to be safer. Sometimes the dynamic is where no one wants to be the wimp, so everyone goes further or faster than they would alone.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

I'm inclined to agree. One of the interesting things about hiking the AT when there are lots of people around is watching groups of people make decisions. Sensibleness has little to do with the results. Aggressiveness, politeness, competitiveness, and all kinds of other emotional agendas have a lot more weight than logic.

In fact I've long thought that solo hikers are quite often better off than most hiking partners and groups because solo hikers can usually decide for what is best for them.

That said, a good hiking partnership is a wonderful thing. It's not only fun, but can make the partners safer.

[Praha4]

numerous medical studies have been done on the effects of mild hypothermia on decision making and mental performance. Hiking 22 miles in cold rain all day brings on mental and physical fatigue... combined with mild hypothermia....could have affected your decision making at the creek crossing. It only takes a drop of 2 to 3 degrees in the body's core temperature to bring on mild hypothermia.

[rockyiss]

I knew a guy who was just taking his trash out one night. Lite jacket, no cell phone, about 20 degrees out . Fell on the ice broke his leg in 4 places badly, so badly he couldn't crawl back to the house. His wife had seen him go by the window on his way out and realized a half hour later or so she hadn't seen him come back. He was going into shock when she found him. Sooo close To dying. We just don't figure how fragile we humans really are. I am so sorry for this hikers family no matter what the reason was.

[10-K]

numerous medical studies have been done on the effects of mild hypothermia on decision making and mental performance. Hiking 22 miles in cold rain all day brings on mental and physical fatigue... combined with mild hypothermia....could have affected your decision making at the creek crossing. It only takes a drop of 2 to 3 degrees in the body's core temperature to bring on mild hypothermia.

Yes, for sure.

When I'm hiking in iffy weather, like the low 40's / driving rain I was hiking in when I got to Dalton I do multiplication tables in my head while I'm hiking.

Don't know if it helps but my thinking is that if I start to have trouble that means I'm in trouble.

[Razor]

Has anyone seen an update on the status of the incident --causes or reasons?

[Lyle]

numerous medical studies have been done on the effects of mild hypothermia on decision making and mental performance. Hiking 22 miles in cold rain all day brings on mental and physical fatigue... combined with mild hypothermia....could have affected your decision making at the creek crossing. It only takes a drop of 2 to 3 degrees in the body's core temperature to bring on mild hypothermia.

Had an experience at Philmont in New Mexico. Middle of summer, mild temperatures, but breezy and light rain. Had climbed one of the mountains, and was descending the other side. Hiking with no shirt, felt perfectly comfortable. One of the other adult leaders noticed I seemed to be stumbling and weaving off the trail. I hadn't noticed, but I was convinced to add a wind breaker. When we got to the bottom of the mountain, we stopped, set up shelter, broke out my SVEA and started making hot soup and hot chocolate for everyone. Several of us were mildly hypothermic.

I often remember this experience when folks here on WB talk of "no rain gear necessary, just hike and get wet, you will be wet from sweat anyway." It's not the same, and can be dangerous. I felt perfectly comfortable, and did not notice that I was weaving and stumbling. Very much longer, and I, and others may have been in serious trouble and not even known it, particularly if I had been hiking alone and done the same thing. At that point, I was a VERY experienced hiker with well over 5,000 miles under my belt in all kinds of terrain/temps. It can and does sneak up on you and does happen.

Sincere Condolences to the family and friends of this hiker.

[10-K]

I have we'll over 5000 miles and seriously thought I was too smart to make a life threatening mistake of such magnitude.

Now I think anyone who hikes long enough and far enough .... Something will eventually happen..especially if you are on more remote or less traveled trails like the AT.

Or to put it another way, raise your hand if you think you are above making a serious mistake.

[gizzy bear]

Has anyone seen an update on the status of the incident --causes or reasons?

i was wndering as well... it is a VERY sad story regardless...

[bfayer]

Years ago on a winter cross country ski day trip in Michigan I couldn't remember which way to turn on a trail I knew well. I remember pulling out my compass and looking at the needle and not remembering if the red end was supposed to point north or south.

That scared me to death. I sat down put on all my clothes, pulled out my stove and made a cup of hot chocolate. A few minutes later I not only knew which way the red end pointed, but I didn't need the compass.

Hypothermia comes on quick and gives no quarter.

10K, I like the math trick. Great way to do a mental CRC.

[Coffee Rules!]

I just want to say thanks to everyone for opening up with their own stories of near misses, so to speak. Helps a noob like myself quite a bit with things to consider.

[Creek Dancer]

Years ago on a winter cross country ski day trip in Michigan I couldn't remember which way to turn on a trail I knew well. I remember pulling out my compass and looking at the needle and not remembering if the red end was supposed to point north or south.

That scared me to death. I sat down put on all my clothes, pulled out my stove and made a cup of hot chocolate. A few minutes later I not only knew which way the red end pointed, but I didn't need the compass.

Hypothermia comes on quick and gives no quarter.

10K, I like the math trick. Great way to do a mental CRC.

I had a similar experiece with heat exhaustion. I found myself getting confused, stumbling up the trail, and I had goose bumps. I was solo. Fortunately, I knew enough to sit down and cool off in the shade for about an hour. To this day, I am always very aware of the signs.

[coach lou]

I've said many times.....my coldest day on the trail was the 3rd day of rain in July on the long trail.

[gizzy bear]

I've said many times.....my coldest day on the trail was the 3rd day of rain in July on the long trail.

if you had on your burka....you would have been just fine....

[coach lou]

if you had on your burka....you would have been just fine....

My first and last attempt at UL hiking.

[coolness]

Yes!! Glad you made it safely 10-K.


We are glad you made it back safe.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[jeramie75]

Any word on cause of death yet?

[coolness]

Well said!!


I just want to say thanks to everyone for opening up with their own stories of near misses, so to speak. Helps a noob like myself quite a bit with things to consider.

[Papa D]

I've said many times.....my coldest day on the trail was the 3rd day of rain in July on the long trail.

i'd believe this - - I was at Puffer Shelter in a rain in July and a little wet and chattering pretty good - I've certainly been in much, much colder temps (the deep negs) but it would surprise many how cold you can get in a summer rain

[Dash]

My lesson was learned 10 years ago on the Bright Angel trail in the Grand Canyon 9miles down/9miles up. Record high temps for May 31st 100 deg on the rim and 130 deg inside the canyon.
Park Rules say DO NOT HIKE TO THE RIVER AND BACK IN A SINGLE DAY! I drank nearly 2 gallons of water never pissed once! 13.5 hours later after i started, i dragged my legs out, that had basically lost function. My Lesson learned= we are not invincible, know your limits, warnings are there for a reason and mother nature will kick your ass if you make a mistake.

[atmilkman]

mother nature will kick your ass if you make a mistake.
and that's putting it mildly

[MuddyWaters]

Park Rules say DO NOT HIKE TO THE RIVER AND BACK IN A SINGLE DAY! I drank nearly 2 gallons of water never pissed once! 13.5 hours later after i started, i dragged my legs out, that had basically lost function. My Lesson learned= we are not invincible, know your limits, warnings are there for a reason and mother nature will kick your ass if you make a mistake.


Heat is an obvious factor to avoid.
But some people do RUN the GC rim-rim-rim in a single long day.
Start at ~4am, end at 11pm at night.
A lot depends on the individual, and one rule do not fit all.

[Freedom Walker]

[QUOTE=joshuasdad;1395863]It is the same shelter. I was there on Thanksgiving evening this year after hiking up to it from Davenport Gap. It is the most remote place in the entire state of Tennessee, as measured by distance from a road.

As a note, after doing a very similar hike in the Smokies (Clingmans to Russell Field), I started a thread here about possible altitude sickness in the smokies. WBers attributed my condition to dehydration and overexertion. I was chilling horribly (despite being in a 20 degree bag at above freezing temperatures), had a horrible cough, fever, and actually had some chest tightness.

I actually fared much better the next hike, which was the seemingly more difficult Davenport to Tricorner one, partially because of your great advice, such as, drink more water at altitude, as your body purges water to increase your blood thickness to deal with the altitude.




Also, based on my experience just several weeks earlier in jumping up from sea level to START a 15+ mile hike at 6000+ ft, makes me realize that this hiker could have easily been me, or another fellow WB section hiker. While popping out 15-20 mile days in VA to MA may be easy for a section hiker, there is a hidden danger when that same hiker starts a hike at relatively high altitude, expecting to perform similarly as a low altitude hike.

In Nov 2009, I started at Clingmans Dome, and stayed in the first shelter going SB. That first night, it was only in the low 30s, but I just couldn't get warm. Finally after getting into my zero bag did I get a little warm. The next night was colder but I did much better. What you wrote above made me wonder if that was what was going on with me. I would like to learn more about this.

[RF_ace]

Has there been an update as to what the cause of death was?

[SGT Rock]

No update that I'm aware of.

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

[WingedMonkey]

To bring this thread back to it's origins:


LEMARR, RICHARD HARRINGTON - 50, of Knoxville passed away quietly on Sunday January 13, 2013. He was preceded in death by father Clyde C. "Buddy" Lemarr, Jr.; brother Clayton Lemarr; and granddaughter Bailey Helton. Survivors include daughters Allison Lemarr Helton and Deborah Lemarr; mother Penelope King; brothers Adam Lemarr and Stuart Lemarr; a sister Whitney Lemarr; nieces Mari-Eason, Helen, and Lacey Lemarr; nephew Jack; step-mother Darlene Lemarr; uncle and aunt Richard and Janie Eason; aunt Pat Golley and cousins; close friends Jenny Price and her family. Memorial service 4:00 pm, Saturday at Rose Mortuary Mann Heritage Chapel. In lieu of flowers, memorials may be made to Great Smoky Mountains National Park Search and Rescue Fund, 107 Park Headquarters Road Gatlinburg, TN 37738 or the Appalachian Trail Conservancy 799 Washington St PO Box 807 Harpers Ferry W VA 25425. The family will receive friends from 2:00 pm-4:00 pm Saturday at Rose Mortuary -Mann Heritage Chapel Knoxville. Online condolences at www.rosemortuary.com (http://www.rosemortuary.com)

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/knoxnews/obituary.aspx?page=lifestory&pid=162630348#fbLoggedOut

[SGT Rock]

Thanks for posting that and reminding everyone he was a real person.

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[S'more]

.....

It's not just a matter of solo vs. group that makes situations safe or unsafe. One of the most absurd rescues I've ever heard of was a group of Boy Scouts from Gastonia who got "stranded" in the Grayson Highlands. Eleven adults and more than 20 kids. One of the adults was quoted in the newspaper as saying they couldn't have made any bad decisions because all the adults had agreed on what to do.

Groups (adults) don't always equal great decisions. Been there, done that. At least I lived to tell about it, and didn't require rescue. But still, hindsight being 20/20, it was not the best decision we made.

[rtfi]

National Park releases hiker's cause of death
http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2013/apr/18/national-park-releases-hikers-cause-of-death/

The Knoxville man who died while hiking in the Great Smoky Mountains National Park succumbed to hypothermia, officials said today.
“It was hypothermia,” said national park spokeswoman Molly Schroer of 50-year-old Richard Lemarr’s cause of death. “That was confirmed through the North Carolina Medical Examiner’s Office.”
Lemarr left Newfound Gap on Jan. 12, planning to hike 30 miles along the Appalachian Trail to Davenport Gap on the North Carolina side.
He failed to meet a friend on Jan. 14 at Davenport Gap and a park search then began.
On Jan. 16, park rangers found Lemarr’s body in the Tricorner Knob Shelter, one of the most remote parts of the park, officials said.
Bad weather and the hard-to-reach location delayed recovery of the body. Rangers stayed on-site at the shelter after Lemarr was found.
The Tennessee Highway Patrol assisted park rangers by airlifting the body out of the park.
More details as they develop online and in Friday’s News Sentinel.

[MuddyWaters]

Sad.
He was halfway. In a shelter.
All he really needed was enough insulation
Or a fire, the shelters have fireplaces.
Thinking or dexterity must have become impacted such that that wasnt possible.

[ArchangelBHL]

thanks for the info Top.

[rtfi]

I think the person who wrote the headline didn’t read the article. Freezing to death is different than hypothermia. Semantics, I guess.

http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20130419/NEWS/304190025/Park-Hiker-froze-death
Park: Hiker Froze to Death
GREAT SMOKY MOUNTAINS NATIONAL PARK — The Knoxville, Tenn. man who died while hiking in the national park succumbed to hypothermia. “It was hypothermia,” said national park spokeswoman Molly Schroer of 50-year-old Richard Lemarr’s cause of death. “That was confirmed through the North Carolina Medical Examiner’s Office,” she told the Knoxville News Sentinel. Lemarr left Newfound Gap on Jan. 12, planning to hike 30 miles along the Appalachian Trail to Davenport Gap on the North Carolina side. He failed to meet a friend on Jan. 14 at Davenport Gap and a park search then began. On Jan. 16, park rangers found Lemarr’s body in the Tricorner Knob Shelter, one of the most remote parts of the park, officials said. Bad weather and the hard-to-reach location delayed recovery of the body. Rangers stayed on-site at the shelter after Lemarr was found until his body could be airlifted from the park.

[winger]

And how is it different?

[rtfi]

My understanding is that hypothermia can occur in temperatures well above freezing, and is triggered by the person becoming wet. (Rain or sweat are typical causes of the wetness.) Even if the person subsequently dries off, their body may not be able to recover from the initial drop in their “core” temperature when they were wet. Freezing to death is dying from exposure at a substantially lower temperature, but the person is dry. Bottom line, a wet person can die from hypothermia at a temperature that a dry person can survive.

[Rasty]

My understanding is that hypothermia can occur in temperatures well above freezing, and is triggered by the person becoming wet. (Rain or sweat are typical causes of the wetness.) Even if the person subsequently dries off, their body may not be able to recover from the initial drop in their “core” temperature when they were wet. Freezing to death is dying from exposure at a substantially lower temperature, but the person is dry. Bottom line, a wet person can die from hypothermia at a temperature that a dry person can survive.

97% positive that you get hypothermia before you freeze to death.

[Nooga]

10 - 12 years ago, I was hiking in the GSM. It was in the 40's and raining. Arriving at Tricorner Knob Shelter, I realized that my hands were cold and I had lost alot of dexterity. I could not manipulate buttons or hook up the hoses to my water filter. I'm sure that I would not have been able to use a lighter. I got into warm clothes and warmed my hands up. Learned a valuable lesson that day.

[Tom Murphy]

when I was a freshman In high school, I skied on an early spring afternoon in jeans. Fell a number of times. Senior in the seat in front of me kept his school bus window open on the ride back to school. I couldn't stop shiveriing when my Dad picked me up. A hot shower and big meal fixed it, but it was a scary expereince

[rtfi]

I just looked it up and found hypothermia defined as a low body temperature, with no mention of wetness combined with a low air temperature. I had always thought of "hypothermia" as a condition caused by wetness, as this is how the term seems to be used. So you are right. Anyway, I thought the term “freezing to death” would imply a dry person dying from exposure at a low temperature, while the term hypothermia would imply dying from a low body temperature after becoming wet at a temperature that could be well above freezing.

[bfayer]

There is no such thing as freezing to death, unless of course you fall into a vat of liquid nitrogen.

In all other cases you will die of hypothermia well before your body core freezes.

You can die of hypothermia if its 70 degrees, or 40 below, it is still hypothermia that kills you.

Most people that die of hypothermia in outdoor sports get wet first, which is why most folks associate hypothermia with being wet. Cold and dry will kill you too, just not as fast.

I was glad to hear that the park rangers did not leave him alone while they waited for the helicopter.

Very sad situation.

[FatHead64]

There is no such thing as freezing to death, unless of course you fall into a vat of liquid nitrogen.

In all other cases you will die of hypothermia well before your body core freezes.

You can die of hypothermia if its 70 degrees, or 40 below, it is still hypothermia that kills you.

Most people that die of hypothermia in outdoor sports get wet first, which is why most folks associate hypothermia with being wet. Cold and dry will kill you too, just not as fast.

I was glad to hear that the park rangers did not leave him alone while they waited for the helicopter.

Very sad situation.

Agreed - the "freezing to death" part is determined by how soon (or not) they are found after dying of hypothermia. As previously stated, hypothermia is low body (core) temperature regardless of temperature or reason why the temperature got low. It is just that being wet often acclerates the temperature loss, so more people get hypothermia when they are wet.

[max patch]

Freezing to death = dying from hypothermia.

Maybe not (I have no idea) according to the medical literature, but interchangeable in casual use.

[MuddyWaters]

Methinks "freezing to death", is obviously just an expression
Professional reporters should know better though.

[wmw999]

My "other" sport is a little more instantaneous (skydiving). There, the word is that you're never too experienced to make a bad decision, never too experienced to die.

I'm not at all experienced in long-distance hiking (i.e. day hikes only, planning on a section hike this summer). But I have a feeling the same thing applies here -- no matter how experienced you are, you can get into a situation where the "obvious" decision appears to be one that in retrospect is really stupid. You have to break the chain of events. The advantage to hiking over skydiving is that you can break the chain most of the time -- take some time to rest, warm up, cool down, go to town, ask someone for help, whatever.

Wendy P.

[MuddyWaters]

Hypothermia can be insidious. As long as you recognize your in trouble, and can think about what you need to do , you have a chance.
When you lose that ability , your toast. Kind of like nitrogen narcosis in diving.

You need to be able to recognize onset at early stages and know actions to take.
In hiking, #1 thing, is keep moving unless you have enough insulation to warm up, or ability to construct a big fire.

[Del Q]

Didn't someone else die in this shelter last Fall?

Just stinks!

[Rasty]

Didn't someone else die in this shelter last Fall?

Just stinks!


There was a helicopter rescue in October.

[The Wanna Bs]

Very sad. :-( That is the way I want to go but 50 is way too young.