Ultra Light Chacos?

[austinwilcox]

Hi, My name is Austin Wilcox.

Im interning with the design department at Chaco sandals this summer and have been kicking around the idea for an Ultra Light Chaco. Same funcion as a normal Chaco, just ultra light. What I would like to hear from anyone here on this page is what they would like to see in an ultralight Chaco. Right now, Im the only one comming up with the ideas but while I like to hike as much as the next guy, I work as a river guide and as I already weigh over 200 lbs, so ultra light has never been a huge priority of mine. That all may change thoug, I already camp in a hammock I built myself. If any of you have the time and inclination, as zellots of the ultra light lifestyle, it would be helpful to me if you were to give me a detailed description of what you would like to see in an ultra light Chaco. Things like, what might be a heaviest weight where you would really consider it an ultra light and want to use them? Where and how would you be using it, side hilling off trail or more on the beaten path? Would it be your primary pair of shoes or would you just wear them on hikes and would you expect it to be quite as durable as normal Chaco's? Would you expect to be able to trail run in it, etc? Right now I'm the only one coming up with the ideas but it's ultra light people like you who really know what you need so if you wouldn't mind giving me some feedback, I would really appreciate it.

Thanks for your thoughts and info,
Austin Wilcox

[minnesotasmith]

How about, the heel strap doesn't fall off in no time flat? A month ago, I bought a pair at Neels Gap, hiking from Amicalola NOBO, and the strap on one of them came up within 3 days; all I wore it for was around camp at night. The outfitter exchanged my pair for another when I got to Neels Gap, and in FIFTEEN MINUTES of wearing the new pair around the hostel, a heel strap came off. Rather than going back to the outfitter, I took my pair of Chacos to a shoe repair place and had all 4 rivets holding the straps on replaced with nonflimsy ones. I haven't gone on an overnight hike (where I would use my Chacos) since I got the strap rivets replaced. I need something like Chacos for how I do hikes (only around camp unless my hiking footwear blows out), but I'm not particularly inclined to ever buy another pair of Chacos.

[PKH]

Rivets? In Chacos? Mine don't have rivets and appear to be bomb proof. Are you sure you're wearing Chacos?

Cheers,

PKH

[trippclark]

How about, the heel strap doesn't fall off in no time flat? A month ago, I bought a pair at Neels Gap, hiking from Amicalola NOBO, and the strap on one of them came up within 3 days; all I wore it for was around camp at night. The outfitter exchanged my pair for another when I got to Neels Gap, and in FIFTEEN MINUTES of wearing the new pair around the hostel, a heel strap came off. Rather than going back to the outfitter, I took my pair of Chacos to a shoe repair place and had all 4 rivets holding the straps on replaced with nonflimsy ones. I haven't gone on an overnight hike (where I would use my Chacos) since I got the strap rivets replaced. I need something like Chacos for how I do hikes (only around camp unless my hiking footwear blows out), but I'm not particularly inclined to ever buy another pair of Chacos.

Are you talking about Crocs instead of Chacos? I have never had this problem with my Crocs (which they do sell at Neels Gap), but they do have a riveted strap.

[minnesotasmith]

That's what I get for not thinking before I type. Sorry.

[BookBurner]

Most thru-hikers wear sandals only in camp at night and around town while resupplying. Everyone thinks they're going to use them to cross streams but that practice grows very old and quickly goes by the wayside. Given this minimal technical demand placed upon the sandals by thru-hikers, my main concern when picking a model is weight. Competitive brands (i.e. Waldies, Crocs) usually weigh in around 10 ounces. Therefore that would be the maximum weight I would consider carrying.

If you can trim the weight down on your sandal, I think you will have a nice product on your hand. Besides being a bit more comfortable to wear than Waldies or Crocs during repeated trips to the outfitters, laundramat, supermarket, etc., a sandal would have a definite advantage in that it would be much easier to stow. Sandals lie flat and thus take up a lot less volume in your pack than the clog-shape design of its competitors.

Good Luck, and if you hit 10 ounces, put me my name on the sales list!

-- BookBurner
www.enlightenedthruhiker.com

[Moon Monster]

If they are to be primary footwear on a hike, then the weight savings does not need to be much. But, I specifically do not carry my Chacos for merely camp or town wear because of their extreme weight vs. alternatives (like Crocs/Waldies).

But, I am an occasional sandal hiker, and I did my AT thru-hike in Teva Wraptors. If I hiked in lightweight Chacos, it would be mainly on beaten trail. My Wraptors were 34.75 ounces for the pair. I did not consider them light-weight. I am a 10-11 pund base pack weight guy, but I usually do not pay attention to the weight of my footwear (which is always running shoes or sandals) because I will not quibble over ounces on the feet nearly as much as ounces on my back.

This is not a weight issue, but my number one complaint about the design of Chacos is that the heel strap on my Z2's is not adjustable. So, my heel swings freely no matter the tightness of the other straps.

That aside, regarding weight, I would rather not give up the Vibram in a lightweight Chaco if it is indeed the Vibram that ensures the durability of the tred. But, I would give up the resoleable nature and some of the thickness as long as durability is not extremely affected. For the price of Chacos, I'd be happy with them as trail sandals if the soles held up for 800 miles +/-, or comparable with average running shoes. I would not give up the more aggressive lug pattern of the Terreno sole. I would rather not give up any of the rigidity of the sole--I think that's a prime feature of existing Chacos. I will not hike in Bites or normal Tevas because their soles are mushy soft.

Thanks for turning to Whiteblaze to ask this question.

[austinwilcox]

Thanks for the good feedback. Here, I got this off the Chaco web page. It might help you with your heel strap problem. WWW.chacousa.com (http://www.chacousa.com).

Strap Length Adjustment
No two feet are created equal. Straps may be lengthened or shortened to suit. Sandals may be special ordered by your dealer or send your sandals directly to us for an adjustment. See our Repair page for return instructions or call the Chaco Repair Department (http://www.chacousa.com/ra/index.cfm) for more information: 970.527.7413.</B>

Hope that helps you,

Austin Wilcox



If they are to be primary footwear on a hike, then the weight savings does not need to be much. But, I specifically do not carry my Chacos for merely camp or town wear because of their extreme weight vs. alternatives (like Crocs/Waldies).

But, I am an occasional sandal hiker, and I did my AT thru-hike in Teva Wraptors. If I hiked in lightweight Chacos, it would be mainly on beaten trail. My Wraptors were 34.75 ounces for the pair. I did not consider them light-weight. I am a 10-11 pund base pack weight guy, but I usually do not pay attention to the weight of my footwear (which is always running shoes or sandals) because I will not quibble over ounces on the feet nearly as much as ounces on my back.

This is not a weight issue, but my number one complaint about the design of Chacos is that the heel strap on my Z2's is not adjustable. So, my heel swings freely no matter the tightness of the other straps.

That aside, regarding weight, I would rather not give up the Vibram in a lightweight Chaco if it is indeed the Vibram that ensures the durability of the tred. But, I would give up the resoleable nature and some of the thickness as long as durability is not extremely affected. For the price of Chacos, I'd be happy with them as trail sandals if the soles held up for 800 miles +/-, or comparable with average running shoes. I would not give up the more aggressive lug pattern of the Terreno sole. I would rather not give up any of the rigidity of the sole--I think that's a prime feature of existing Chacos. I will not hike in Bites or normal Tevas because their soles are mushy soft.

Thanks for turning to Whiteblaze to ask this question.

[The Will]

<?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Austin</st1:place></st1:City>,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

I have no specific suggestions but I'll offer a general statement and hope it will be of help. Backpacking in the northwest and the frequent river crossings were the impetus for my <st1:place w:st="on">Chaco</st1:place> purchase. A rapid flowing, thigh deep river will strip lesser sandals right off your feet. But the weight of Chacos is (often) prohibitive for backpacking. <o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

If you can maintain the secure fit as exemplified by the Z2 design while significantly reducing weight you may have a marketable item. Bear in mind that there are ultra-lightists who do not carry any alternate footwear and if your new creation is lighter but at the expense of durability you may not maintain the appeal to <st1:place w:st="on">Chaco</st1:place>'s current customer base.<o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>

Just thoughts. <o:p></o:p>

[Bolivershagnasty]

Just keepem light with decent straps that don't blister or blow out on you. Most people just use them for camp shoe's anyway or maybe use them for an hour here or there to let feet air out. Good luck.

[austinwilcox]

Ive been thinking about addapting the webbing on the chaco to have a mesh area over the toes and heel to keep out rocks and crap when your hiking through loose stuff. Would you think this is a pro. or would that wreck the "sandal" ness of it. Or are there any other changes to the straps, tread etc, besides weight that you would want to see for a light trail Chaco?
Austin

[The Solemates]

personally, i dont think you are going to be able to make a chaco light enough unless you completely change the design. and even doing so, you will want to keep the price down. 10 ounces and $20 for a pair of waldies, or 8 ounces and $30 for a pair of nike non-thong flip-flops is going to be hard to beat. If you really want to sell them like crazy, something that breaks the weight barrier is what is going to do it. A 5-8 ounce $20-$30 pair of lightweight sandals (which would ultimately have to get rid of the chaco-ness straps) is the way to go.

[Footslogger]

I think Solemates is correct here. It's not just about making them lighter. It's about where they would fit in the mix of available alternatives. Chaco made their name based on their current style of sandal. I own and really like my Chacos but don't hike in them and can't imagine any major changes in design that would make them competitive and durable enough to hike in and to challenge the current light weight lower cost "camp shoe" alternatives. The Chaco name will always help you sell some of them but the market is pretty much flooded/saturated.

Just my .02

'Slogger

[joshribbens]

Lightweight chacos would be an excellent idea. Durability would not be a major issure because i wouldnt use them primaraly for hiking. Mostly just at night and for water crossing. Keep me updates if anything actually come of the idea.

[Tha Wookie]

after over 4000 trail miles in Chacos, I really can't think of an improvement, except something to keep dirt out of the strap holes. After a while, they get to gunky to floss.

I think better materials for the existing design might be the only way to improve.

[austinwilcox]

How many people would actualy think of using thier Chacos as a primary trail shoe? Thats what were going for if this idea gets off the ground.

[Moon Monster]

Hi Austin, I have a long post for you.

Firstly, while I've not had much issue with the strap holes, I have seen that issue also raised in some online reviews by hikers wearing Chacos on-trail.

I started thinking about hiking in sandals in 2002. I did a lot of research then and tried to find opinions about the matter, but it was difficult. I figured the total sandal hiking public was much much less than 1% of hikers. There were only a handful of Internet reviews of sandal hiking in 2002. From what I gathered, it seemed that by the warmer months of a northbound AT thru-hike, a few percent of thru-hikers were using their Chacos exclusively. But those were folks who began in shoes or boots and carried Chacos for camp or bought Chacos along the way because friends had them.

In other words, the bulk of thru-hikers on the AT who wear sandals by the end of their hike did not start with the idea to do so. They picked up the idea along the way. But thru-hikers are a small group and a few percent of this group is a small number. Most East Coast hikers ponder their gear selection from their living room, not on trail after two months of nothing but hiking.

On my AT thru-hike, I met two other hikers who were in sandals (out of several hundred hikers that I met in total--including section hikers and weekenders) but neither started their hikes in sandals. I heard of a few others, so I'd say the less than 1% figure still holds on the AT.

However, I have noticed more reviews online now. And since Keen with their marketing guru partner has shoved Shaka-knockoff sandals full on into mainstream shoe outlets, the idea may be slightly more popular in 2005. Yet, I think it is very much an alternative idea to people to wear sandals on a hiking trail. And this is primarily due to the perception toe protection. That is the number one thing I get asked about when I'm on the trail in sandals.

I was in my local outfitter yesterday in my Z2s. Another shopper asked me how I liked them and I launched into a full-blown sermon about how once you go Chaco (from Teva), you never go back. I chatted him up for several minutes about sandals. He said something that made me immediately think of your post. He was quizzical of the idea of Chacos for general use because he thought the felt too heavy compared to Tevas. I felt like defending the product, so I said I liked the feeling of the heavy sole, but this guy's question may be indicative that there is a market for a lighter-weight Chaco to the average street-walking public.

One more thing, I was at the outfitter looking at Salomon's Tech Amphibian boat shoe. I have ordered a pair to try hiking in. They have an agressive sole and the upper is mostly nylon mesh for draining and drying. They are more shoe than sandal, still, but they blur the line. I will post back here in a few weeks to let you know how the mesh idea works vis a vis stuff getting caught under my feet.

BTW, thanks for the heel strap info.

[Tha Wookie]

I used chacos as my primary footwear on my american west coast walk(www.thawookie.com (http://www.thawookie.com)). used two pairs. Not only were the sandals awesome for coastal hiking (had to regularly cross creeks and rivers) but the Chaco folks were awesome when I finally finished my first of two pairs.

I'll test them if you get prototypes made.