JMT: Shelter advice

[Dr. Professor]

Hi all,

My uncle and I are hiking the northern half of the JMT in mid-September (Happy Isles to Muir Trail Ranch). Due to time constraints, we'll do the southern half in a year or two. I'm torn on shelter options, so I'd appreciate some advice.

Here are the options:



A) Hammock:

Advantages -- I love my hammock; far more comfortable than sleeping on the ground.

Disadvantages -- While the northern half of the trail isn't as high as the southern half, I still could do some hiking above the tree line. Even where there are trees, they tend to be widely spaced with massive trunks that are not conducive to hanging.



B) Shelter System (specifically, this system: http://www.hyperlitemountaingear.com/echo-ii-ultralight-system.html but with an Echo I insert):

Advantages -- Flexibility; can cowboy with tarp, cowboy with tarp and beak, sleep with insert only, use all three, etc....

Disadvantages -- Need to be able to use stakes or this won't work; much of the JMT is rock.



C) Self-supporting tent (type not yet specified)

Advantage -- Can use this anywhere on the JMT.

Disadvantages -- Not as comfortable as hammock, not as flexible as shelter system, not nearly as good as the other options in the rain (not likely to be a big problem on the JMT).



Thoughts?

[Ron]

I did the JMT last year with a hexamid from Zpacks and it worked out fine. I don't believe a hammock would work well and you appear to know the limitations. I've spent a couple of nights in the HMG tent and it's outstanding, if the price isn't a factor that would be my choice. I didn't have any problems being able to use my stakes on the JMT, the existing campsites are generally not a problem from that aspect especially on the section you are planning to hike.
Ron

[Mountain Mike]

I did PCT which is close to or the same for a lot of that in late august. I tended to camp high up on passes for dramatic views & used a bivy. But lower down a hammock would be doable. Sept normally means more precip so I would use a better shelter than I did. Bug non existent. There are enough place to hang or pitch a tent. You will love the trail!

[lvnv1212]

I hiked the JMT late Aug / early Sept last year and also used a hexamid from Zpacks. Next time...I will use my Warbonnet traveler with HammockGear Cuben fiber hex hammock tarp. It may vary by year, but I didn't see one mosquito.

[fiddlehead]

I don't see the problem with using stakes on the JMT.
Sure there are rocks, but there is also dirt.
I'd go with whatever you are most comfortable with.
I've done that trail with different shelters including a Mega-mid, Integral designs sil-shelter, and nothing. (slept out under the stars, got rained on once, covered up with a piece of tyvek)
But, I would advise against the hammock as trees can be sparse and far apart and you are then limiting yourself to where you can camp.
I tend to camp where people don't.

[Miner]

I often do trips to the Sierra Nevada which included doing the JMT/PCT. For years, I normally just cowboy camp with a bivy for bug protection. A small tarp comes along incase of rain. I found that camping above tree line meant that I often didn't have to deal with bugs at night.

If you really want to use the hammock, there are plenty of trees down in the valleys between the passes. However, that is also where most of the bugs and bears are. But depending on your daily mileage, you may find yourself still camping above tree line at least once or twice.

[Dr. Professor]

Thanks to all of you -- especially Ron; it's not every day you elicit post #4 from a guy who's been around since '05.

Based on your responses, I'll go with the shelter system. That should offer plenty of flexibility as you all say that stakes won't be a problem. One of the things I like about hammocking on the AT is that I can camp pretty much anywhere. For the JMT, the opposite would be true. So I'll go to ground, but with the flexibility that the shelter system provides.

Thanks again.

[BrianLe]

If you're starting the JMT in mid-September, I suggest a simple tarp, and that hopefully many (most?) nights you won't even bother putting it up. My wife and I hiked the JMT this past September and she wanted a tent, so I carried that and put it up each night, but we could have cowboy camped all along the way. Of course YMMV, so bring the tarp but --- that's certainly all you need IMO.

I'm actually a bit mixed on the hammock option. It's true that you spend a lot of time above treeline on the trail, but the smart call IMO is in general to "walk high but camp low". A tent or tarp does give you the flexibility to sleep higher if you want to, but I think we slept down in trees every day, and there were a couple of times where campsite options were pretty limited in the vicinity we wanted to be --- say, near a particular lake. For those cases a hammock would be nice. Caveat: only if everyone else you're hiking with is also using a hammock. And only if you're willing to go to ground if needed.

[flemdawg1]

Don't hammock tarps work on the ground? Is so take a self-inflator pad instead of an underquilt, and simply use the tarp on the ground when you need to.

[q-tip]

I am hiking the JMT this Aug. using a Tarptent Contrail (used 1,100 mi AT). The Contrail weighs 1.5 oz. less, has about the same dimensions and is $300 less expensive.

[Dr. Professor]

I've thought about the idea of hammocking with a pad instead of a UQ, going to ground where necessary. I have a double layer blackbird, so the pad would work decently. I've never used my hammock tarp in that manner, but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work in the manner that, say, the echo II tarp does (maybe not quite as wind ready as a tarp specifically designed for ground camping, but I would think it would work).

I guess one VERY critical question is: can I count on no bugs in September on the JMT. I know they usually aren't there that time of year, but has anybody had any bad experiences with bugs in September in the High Sierra?

Overall, I'd guess that hammock with pad going to ground and tarp as necessary would work well provided no bugs and no big storms.

I'm hiking with my uncle; he has a hammock and likes it for the AT but will probably tent the JMT. He should be able to camp wherever I can (on the JMT), so no limitation there. I agree that camping low is preferable in colder weather, but I don't want my gear to dictate where we camp. I want a gear situation that will adapt to wherever we choose to camp.

[Miner]

I"ve never noticed bugs in September in the High Sierra. However, I was snowed on once on Sept.19, but it melted off in 1-1.5 days. The only real downside to hiking in September is how cold the nights are (low 20's is pretty common in the higher elevations). If there are any bugs still alive in September, they won't be active at night when its that cold.

[Dr. Professor]

That's another thing: I use a quilt rather than a bag in my hammock; bags are a pain in a hammock. I guess I'd have to take a bag and unzip it in the hammock but zip it when going to ground.... Lots to ponder.

Some people think there's no one correct way to hike. I'm sort of the opposite; I think that for each individual, there is a correct way for any given set of conditions. The problem is, I'm not sure what the correct way for me is going to be in this particular set of conditions.

Perhaps the shelter system I described above would be the best way to go. It certainly seems to provide more reliable flexibility than the other options. Of course, if bugs aren't going to be a problem, I could just use the Echo II tarp and zpacks solo plus cuben ground sheet: http://zpacks.com/shelter/cuben_groundsheet.shtml

Actually, that last option could be really sweet.

[flemdawg1]

That's another thing: I use a quilt rather than a bag in my hammock; bags are a pain in a hammock. I guess I'd have to take a bag and unzip it in the hammock but zip it when going to ground.... Lots to ponder.

Actually, that last option could be really sweet.

Quilts work on the ground too.

[Dr. Professor]

Quilts work on the ground too.

Interesting; I've never tried it. I always assumed that I'd roll out of a quilt on the ground whereas a hammock helps to keep it in place.

To tell the truth, this has been a fun mental exercise for me; since buying my hammock, I've only ever gone back to ground to camp in a tent with my four-year-old. Now that I'm really looking into the very different reality of hiking in the high sierra, I'm really starting to look at gear in a whole new way.

Does anybody think cuben groundcloth + cuben tarp + 20 degree quilt + sleeping pad (no bug protection) would be a bad idea for the JMT in September? I'm a little leary of the quilt option when the temps could (and likely will) drop into the twenties.

[Mountain Mike]

Interesting; I've never tried it. I always assumed that I'd roll out of a quilt on the ground whereas a hammock helps to keep it in place.

To tell the truth, this has been a fun mental exercise for me; since buying my hammock, I've only ever gone back to ground to camp in a tent with my four-year-old. Now that I'm really looking into the very different reality of hiking in the high sierra, I'm really starting to look at gear in a whole new way.

Does anybody think cuben groundcloth + cuben tarp + 20 degree quilt + sleeping pad (no bug protection) would be a bad idea for the JMT in September? I'm a little leary of the quilt option when the temps could (and likely will) drop into the twenties.

In 98 doing the PCT from Donner Pass & out at Whitney I ditched the tent once my girlfriend had to go back home/work & just carried a bivy. Late Aug-Early Sept. I often slept high & would do the same again. 19257Bugs weren't a bother. I would probably suggest a tyveck ground cloth though

[Dr. Professor]

Regarding the ground cloth, what about something like this: http://gossamergear.com/shelters/polycryo-ground-cloth-medium.html?utm_source=web&utm_medium=wishpot&utm_campaign=venpop

[Mountain Mike]

Looks like an option. My only concern about using Cuben was the cost of something that is likely to get punctured.

[Miner]

Does anybody think cuben groundcloth + cuben tarp + 20 degree quilt + sleeping pad (no bug protection) would be a bad idea for the JMT in September? I'm a little leary of the quilt option when the temps could (and likely will) drop into the twenties.

Thats pretty much how I do it, 20F quilt & small cuben fiber tarp. Only I use a GG polycro sheet as a ground cloth (its lighter). Though I often add a 6oz water resistant bivy sack.

[Dr. Professor]

Thanks for your help Mike (and everyone).

Based in no small part on the advice in this thread, I'll probably use the Echo II tarp (but not the whole shelter system) and the gossamer gear ground cloth. I probably will go ahead and pick up a new sleeping bag though.

[Dr. Professor]

Thats pretty much how I do it, 20F quilt & small cuben fiber tarp. Only I use a GG polycro sheet as a ground cloth (its lighter). Though I often add a 6oz water resistant bivy sack.

That begs two questions:

1) With a tarp the size of the Echo II, do you think I'd need a bivy sack if bugs aren't an issue?

2) Would you use a quilt rather than a bag when tarping it?

[SassyWindsor]

Use the smallest lightest tent (with ground cloth of some sort) you can afford. Wouldn't recommend a hammock or a tarp, especially in the high elevations of the Sierra's.

[QiWiz]

I did the JMT last year with a hexamid from Zpacks and it worked out fine. I don't believe a hammock would work well and you appear to know the limitations. I've spent a couple of nights in the HMG tent and it's outstanding, if the price isn't a factor that would be my choice. I didn't have any problems being able to use my stakes on the JMT, the existing campsites are generally not a problem from that aspect especially on the section you are planning to hike.
Ron

+1
I would bring the lightest non-hammock shelter you have. Soil is rocky but will take skewer stakes. You can also weigh them down with rocks if it's windy.

[Hole-In-The-Hat]

I also have had a good experience with a polycryo groundsheet. They're very light, and amazingly tough.

[Dr. Professor]

Use the smallest lightest tent (with ground cloth of some sort) you can afford. Wouldn't recommend a hammock or a tarp, especially in the high elevations of the Sierra's.

Others seem to like the idea of tarp (would be Echo II) and the gossamer gear ground cloth. You seem opposed. What's your rationale? If it's wind, I could bring the beak to go with the tarp. Bugs would necessitate the insert, but per others they won't be an issue. Is it the stakes?

[Dr. Professor]

+1
I would bring the lightest non-hammock shelter you have. Soil is rocky but will take skewer stakes. You can also weigh them down with rocks if it's windy.

As long as the soil will take the big dig trowel, I'll be good.

;)

[Miner]

That begs two questions:

1) With a tarp the size of the Echo II, do you think I'd need a bivy sack if bugs aren't an issue?

2) Would you use a quilt rather than a bag when tarping it?

I use the bivy sack more because I cowboy camp if it isn't raining. It allows me to block some wind and stay warmer without having to set the tarp up. You likely won't need one with the Echo II if all you are worried about is rain protection. I have only used a down quilt since 2008 which includes some pretty cold weather. When using one without a bivy sack or hammock, you have to develop a habbit of retucking the sides when you flip over. I have myself trained to do it automatically so I don't have a problem with drafts. Your mileage may vary.

[wornoutboots]

So is my Eureka Spitfire ok for the JMT? It's not free standing & needs to be staked out. Thanks

[q-tip]

Do you need Skewer Stakes, or will the round aluminum stakes work ok???????

[wornoutboots]

Sorry, what are skewer stakes?

[Coffee]

Sorry, what are skewer stakes?

like these?
http://www.stansport.com/index.php/camp-and-hike/tents/821.html

I have only the regular stakes that came with my BA copper spur ul1. Do I need different stakes for the rockier parts of the JMT?

[Miner]

Round alumium stakes will just bend when you hammer them in, so carry extra. I use narrow pointed titanium stakes and have never needed to hammer them in with a rock and never bent one. If I hit a rock, I move it an inch or so over and usually it goes right in.

[Miner]

However, I have camped on giant flat rock slabs on occasion as it was the flatest spot available (ie. the groud was full of pointed rocks which would suck to sleep on). Obviously, you wont be able to use stakes there. But using very large rocks in the corners of your tent to hold it will usually work.

[SouthMark]

Susan "Hammock Hanger", a member here, did the JMT last August with her hammock and only went to ground twice and only because she was with a group of ground dwellers that chose sites to camp with no trees. She just pitched her tarp with her hiking poles and used her Hennessy as a bevy. Lots of people have used a hammock on the JMT and I will this August.

[DaFireMedic]

Does anybody think cuben groundcloth + cuben tarp + 20 degree quilt + sleeping pad (no bug protection) would be a bad idea for the JMT in September? I'm a little leary of the quilt option when the temps could (and likely will) drop into the twenties.

On the contrary, this is a great idea. We brought tents in August last year on concerns of mosquitoes but saw very little and the ones we encountered were during the day. No problems at night. We ended up cowboy camping about half the time. My sons used 20 degree Enlightened Equipment quilts and I used a Jacks R Better Sierra Sniveller (25-35 F). We were never close to being cold at night despite one or two nights in the low 30's and frost on the quilts, and I'm a cold sleeper. I find quilts to be warmer than sleeping bags for me, as they conform more to my position than does a bag and my sons liked them as well (11 and 14 yrs old). Just keep the sides of the quilt such that you don't have spaces for the cold air to get underneath (not too difficult, and I generally toss around a lot when I sleep).

One thing you should count on is rain. You may not have any, but if you do you'll want to be familiar with how to set up the tarp properly and selection of sites to set up. We had 4 consecutive days of heavy thunderstorms.

[Dr. Professor]

Thanks again to all of you.

As of today, I'm planning on bringing the Echo II tarp, the gossamer gear ground sheet, and the Enlightened Equipment Revelation 20 degree quilt. I'm planning to not bring the beak or a bivy.

Advantages: weight, campsite flexibility.

Disadvantages: less bug and wind protection than other options; of those, the later seems to be a greater concern.

One last question: Does anybody have any ground pad advice for me? Is there some particular pad that people feel is more comfortable and/or warmer?

[Hole-In-The-Hat]

I have been quite happy with my Therm-A-Rest NeoAir pad. I like the light weight and the ~2+ inches of thickness for the comfort. Some have reported problems with leaks, but I haven't personally experienced this.

[Dr. Professor]

Thanks;

I just dug this link up from Mags: http://www.pmags.com/sleepings-pads-a-grounded-view

I've got a lot to think through. I hate extra weight and don't mind spending $ for comfort. I sleep on my side and am usually not all that comfortable on the ground.

I'm currently thinking of something like the ExPed UL 7....

How noisy is your NeoAir pad?

[Dogwood]

IMHO, you're asking the right questions and making fair comparisons! I don't say that very often. Yeah you can hammock especially in the northern half just got to, as always, be mindful of weather and where it's appropriate to hang(BL said it - hike high camp low if suspecting nasty weather). A hammock on the JMT does somewhat limit your potential camping choices in foul weather but good news is that the JMT has some of the fairest weather for its elevation for any trail in the world. Got to plan where you'll camp at some pt if sleeping in the hammock and weather is rainy or LIGHTLY snowing. Little forethought and a hammock is definitely doable. Weather is generally amenable on the JMT up to about Oct. After Mid Oct anything can happen weather wise. In 3 JMT thrus(one SOBO July, one SOBO Sept, one finishing up the third wk of Oct(flip flopped, don't ask) and 1 SHR thru(finished up NOBO third wk Oct, got dumped on twice during that thru, F*&^ing beautiful out there at that time of the yr though!) I've cowboyed in a UL Mountain Laurel Designs Superlight bivy 90 % of the nights. Under a cuben or spinnaker tarp the rest of those times. My JMT kit is much like Miners. In addition when going through the Sierras on my PCT thru in mid June only set my tarp up once. Mid Sept starts getting colder and with a greater possabilty each succeeding day some light pow but even if you do get some in mid sept it'll probably burn off that day. Good chance you'll get some light rime and ice though(on gear, plants, rocks, maybe surface of tarns). As fair as the weather can be in the Sierras for the elevation during late july to late Sept it's NOT a place to leave insulation, rain jacket, possibly rain pants home especially when you start getting deep into Sept! take a Ul rain jacket that doubles as your wind jacket. Take a vest or insulating jacket.

As Qiwiz said, Stakes or rocks are fine for JMT shelters too. Not all the ground is rock! Bring peg, Al MSR Groundhogs heavier Ti Skewers, or Ti Vargo stakes if concerned.

*Does anybody think cuben groundcloth + cuben tarp + 20 degree quilt + sleeping pad (no bug protection) would be a bad idea for the JMT in September?"

BINGO! Money Zone! Was gonna tell ya to leave HMG's Echo II bug insert home for a mid Sept JMT hike. NOT needed FOR BUGS in Sept! That'll save ya some ozs(like 14-15)! Take the beak though. Nice to have the beak for the JMT in Mid sept just in case. Wt penalty isn't all that great either for the extra protection especially if you roll with the 20* quilt. That HMG ECHO(I or II) shelter is IMO in the JMT MONEY ZONE. two mid sized people, bit a Ul lower volume gear under the echo II tarp, and pitching low and you shouldn't need bivy sacks to go along with the Echo II.

Don't want any of the extra considerations with the hammocks and HMG Echo II having to have the security that you think enclosed in a piece fabric might entail and don't mind paying the price in a few ozs take a tent/tarptent shelter.

"I'm a little leary of the quilt option when the temps could (and likely will) drop into the twenties."

That's your call. Base it on how you sleep, your knowledge of using a quilt in sub 30* temps, the rest of your kit, etc

Pad, I go with the old Thermarest Shortie Prolite 3 and now in the last few yrs a Neo Air Shortie. If doing a quilt in mid Sept on the Jmt under a tarp or cowboying I roll with a 66" long X 20"womens Neo Air. I'm 6'4" and when using a quilt and it starts getting near 30*and below I switch to a warmer and longer Neo Air and/or add a 1/4-3/8 CCF pad to the mix when it regularly drops to 20*. I only got about 120 nights with my 20* down quilt though so am still ironing things out. ie; I toss and turn and side sleep. i like Enlightened Equipment and JRB quilts. I got a EE Prodigy 50* synthetic on order from Tim.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/clear.gif (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1401790&noquote=1) If doing it the cowboy way bring along a Tyvek ground sheet. Don't sweat the Polycro or Cuben wt savings. Not all that big anyhow. Take the extra abrasion resistance and durability of the Tyvek. Don't particularly like a cuben groundsheet for the JMT. It might limit my campsite choices. I like sleeping on slabs, ridges and summits.

How ya getting out at Muir Trail Ranch? As you might have noted by my JMT adventures Sept and early Oct perhaps getting into late Oct are some of my favorite times to be in the Sierras. Love it there.

[Hole-In-The-Hat]

Dr Professor: I've never really thought of my NeoAir as being noisy - nothing bothersome. I also am a side-sleeper, and I really like the comfort.

[Dr. Professor]

Thanks again.

I haven't had time to really process any more of this today, but I did want to get back to you Dogwood; my uncle and his wife live out in the redwoods a few hours from the JMT. We were planning on dropping a car off near or at the ranch prior to our hike. Aunt would then drop us off at Yosemite. At the end of the hike, we plan on staying at the ranch a couple of days. To be honest, I haven't spent too much time on that aspect of the planning myself as we'll be in his neck of the woods.

[Dogwood]

Never stayed at MTR. Stopped there a few times though. Ooooh be careful with short stays at MTR. Get that figured out best you can up front and I would advise soon. Check MTR'as open for biz dates too. Places in the Sierras particularly backcountry areas virtually all close up for winter like by mid Oct sometimes sooner. MTR is friendly but typically focus MAINLY ON guests with reservations. IMO, it's not advisable just to stop in and expect them to cater to your needs without a reservation or prior arrangement. It's not va Hostel or open hotel situation. Call them. SOON. You can get out from florence Lake which isn't far from MTR. You have to hike in or take a horse/mule to get to MTR. No drive up window service for MTR. Gotta take into consideration where your relatives are located in relation to where you're coming off the JMT. Once off the JMT in the general area where you intend it's not like a bus, car, flight, road, etc is always right there to wisk you back to civilization in extremely short order. JMT doesn't cross a road in its 200+ miles. This ain't the AT with its typically abundant easy to get to in short order resupply every 3-4 days, regular paved road access, shelters every 7 miles or so, etc LOL You got to put some thought into the end game situation! Don't neglect it.

[wcgornto]

Muir Trail Ranch Home Page

http://www.muirtrailranch.com/



Muir Trail Ranch Available Dates

http://www.muirtrailranch.com/avail-dates.html

[Dogwood]

I saw that too wcgornto up to Sept 6. BUT, either way the OP needs to contact MTR. Sometimes they many extend those dates depending on the visitor's situations, weather conditions, needs, staff on duty, etc . Another thing about MTR is that a good many MTR visitors spend a wk there(sometimes longer) all by reservation. They only have short periods where they allow walk ins doing less than a wk stays. Either way if ending a JMT section hike here you can get out to where,,,,that depends,,,, easily ,,,,, not always.

[Coffee]

The issue with making a MTR reservation is that there are no changes permitted, no exceptions. This can be somewhat risky on a lengthy thru hike. I did end up making a reservation and paying the deposit because I felt like the risk of not being able to get accommodations as a walk-in would be greater than the risk of losing my money. I did build in a couple of extra days into my schedule by starting in Yosemite Valley a couple of days sooner than I should need to if I can hike the miles I'm planning to hike each day. If all goes well, this will result in a couple of zero days on the first half of the trip (probably a side trip to Lake Ediza), but if I am slower than anticipated, I won't feel rushed to make my reservation date at MTR. I am really looking forward to MTR mainly because I've read great things about the food. I'm pretty sure that I'll be sick of my trail cooking long before I reach MTR.

[Dogwood]

MTR as well as VVR offer up some GREAT food! Expect to pay more for it than typical though. Getting it to the Sierra backcountry isn't typical. I know VVR stays open until early Oct and no res required. You can get out from VVR too.

[wcgornto]

I begin my trek on June 30th and I have a short stay at MTR reserved for July 6th. No wiggle room for me, but I don't have any wiggle room for the full length of the trail ... fifteen days total, no more, no less. I know the drill. One learns how to average fifteen miles per day over the full length of an AT thru hike.

[RichardD]

I hiked the JMT twice, once late July with a Tarptent and once Mid August into Sept with a hammock. I found that I had many many options open to me with the hammock, the only limitations were the backpackers camp in Yosemite Valley the night before the hike, (few trees close enough but since I arrived early I found a couple). Reds Meadow backpackers camp site similarly limited but again I found two trees that worked but only two. Since you are going only as far as MTR the only above tree hiking is a few miles on Donahue pass and a very short section on Selden and Silver passes. Elsewhere there are tons of trees and plenty small enough for a single strap. (I carried one spare strap to help out on larger trees but that was not necessary). Overall I had many more options open to me with the hammock than with the tent. As for inclement weather, I am much drier and more comfortable in my hammock than in my tent, of course you have to have the right gear to be warm in a hammock but since you say you like your hammock I am sure you have that dialed in. We caught a cold snap on the Aug - Sept trip and had nights in low 20's with snow. Mosquitoes were sometimes intense on the July hike but few in Aug Sept. Enjoy your hike but know that if you like your hammock it will work well for you on the JMT

[Dr. Professor]

Thanks again to everyone.

Wow, in the midst of a busy week at work, it looks like a lot of things may be changing with regard to my hike:

1) Good pickup Dogwood, it looks like MTR will be closed. We've got an email out to confirm.

2) My uncle's knees are shot and need replacing. He still absolutely intends to hike, but we can't count on him for huge mileage.

3) It looks like my wife won't need me in San Diego for an additional four days which would give me a total of sixteen days to hike.

Sooo.... It looks like we'll be hiking past VVR, then doubling back to exit. Under this scenario, we'd be interesed in finding some interesting side trails. If my uncle decides he can't hike, I'll through hike provided they let me exit Mt. Whitney four days after my currently slated MTR exit.

Regarding my shelter, RichardD certainly makes the hammock tempting. That said, my uncle wants to camp above tree line. Given that and given the possibilty of a through hike, I'll probably still go with the tarp. Lots to think about...

[Dogwood]

Taking into context your last post and what you said previously, again, UNDERSTAND YOUR EXITING OF THE JMT STRATEGY OPTIONS. Make sure you know what the different options entail. THEY CAN BE VERY DIFFERENT especially in terms of what side of the Sierras you wish to exit to. The options can and MOST OFTEN DO entrail extra trail mileage and elev changes! I would know the various exiting options well just based on your Uncle's knee issues.

[Dr. Professor]

Yeah, I've got a lot to look into. Confirmed, btw -- MTR closed and lake drained by then. Agreed regarding his knees, they haven't been much of a factor in the past. Around the JMT and with worse knees, we need to know our options cold. Lots to look into...