Shelter Avoidance Strategies in GSMNP

[Pendragon]

OK, so GSMNP has these draconian requirements that everybody MUST stay in shelters along the trail, unless they are already full. I am hammocking, and I really have no desire to attempt to sleep on those hard wooden floors crowded in with a bunch of snoring party animals. Are there any particular strategies that one can use to legally avoid having to stay in these things without having to time your arrival at two in the morning? Do these rangers track you down somehow if you are stealth camping a mile off the trail halfway between shelters? I fully understand their desire to reduce impact, but I believe hammock hanging, adhering to NTLB principles, are actually better for the environment than tent camping by a long shot, and one can avoid flu pandemics, unnecessarily uncomfortable sleeping arrangements, and shelter mice by snuggling into a nice blackbird out of the way. I also don't want to have to haul around this old two lb thermarest if I don't have to (I THINK it has a very slow leak in it and I really can't afford a neo-air right now, which seems to be the pad of choice for lightweight hiking). I'm 57 and can't sleep on rocks like I could when I was a kid. Any suggestions? Thanks!

[Rasty]

Take the BMT through the park if not thru hiking. If thru hiking arrive late in the day to the shelter and hope it is full. Other then that there is no legal way to avoid the shelters on the AT.

[SOBO_Pace]

Bring ear plugs and set your hammock up in the shelter.

[chiefduffy]

Get to the shelter late, or just hang around and don't claim a spot until after its full. Then it is legal to hang in the vicinity. Worked fine for me!

[colorado_rob]

I've got the SAME issue, and will follow this thread closely, and so far, the replies make sense. I had been actually thinking of a huge non-stop blitz from the southern end and have my wife pick me up at Clingmans dome, spend a night in town, then blitz the north end after a day of rest, something like that. Two huge days, weather and trail conditions permitting. But the full-shelter plan looks more reasonable.

[SCRUB HIKER]

Get to the shelter late, or just hang around and don't claim a spot until after its full. Then it is legal to hang in the vicinity. Worked fine for me!

Yeah, same here. If you're going NOBO on the usual timetable (i.e. you started in March or early-to-mid-April), the shelters will probably fill up every night. At least that's what happened on my hike. If it's not full when you get there, just pitch your tent or hang your hammock or whatever and wait. Pretty soon it'll be full and then you can say you tried the shelter but you just couldn't squeeze in.

[Malto]

Do a VERY long mile day and hike from Fontana to Davenport in a day. Didn't squeaky do that?

[Stir Fry]

Nothing is impossible, But going the GSM in a day is beyond the average hiker, Two days, MAAAAAAAAAABE, but not one day.

[Chaco Taco]

The hanging out strategy works, especially if you are hiking during the peak months. Once you get to Newfound Gap, you can hitch into town or keep on. I would avoid Tri-corner if you can.

[Pedaling Fool]

Get to the shelter late, or just hang around and don't claim a spot until after its full. Then it is legal to hang in the vicinity. Worked fine for me!That's what I did.

[Mags]

Two huge days, weather and trail conditions permitting. But the full-shelter plan looks more reasonable.

My buddy did the full shelter plan. He was doing an AT section hike but has already done other western long trails. Being a western hiker, hiking all day was typical.

By the time he reached the shelter, it was pretty much full. Since he would rather tent it anyway rather use a shelter, the strategy worked out well. And it was legal.

[Pendragon]

Thanks, guys.......I'm leaving Amacalola on the 1st of April, and no, I will not be pumping out big miles......I'll be happy if I can attain the 11 mile average I have budgeted to get to Damascus by Trail Days.

[kidchill]

If the shelter isn't full, you can hang your hammock above the second story platform off of the rafters...it takes a couple of tries to get it right, but you'll be a few inches off of the top deck...that's what I did on my thru, but then again, no one else was in the shelters.

[Pendragon]

If the shelter isn't full, you can hang your hammock above the second story platform off of the rafters...it takes a couple of tries to get it right, but you'll be a few inches off of the top deck...that's what I did on my thru, but then again, no one else was in the shelters.

Well, actually HANGING inside a shelter is an acceptable alternative, as long as I don't have to step on someone getting out of it......

[Monkeywrench]

Well, actually HANGING inside a shelter is an acceptable alternative, as long as I don't have to step on someone getting out of it......

I know opinions vary on this, but I think hanging a hammock in a shelter is just as unacceptable as setting up a tent in a shelter.

If you're going to use the shelter, why not use it the way it was designed to be used?

[Chaco Taco]

Well, actually HANGING inside a shelter is an acceptable alternative, as long as I don't have to step on someone getting out of it......
That is incorrect

[Pendragon]

I stated from the hit-go that I didn't want to use the shelters to begin with.......the whole idea behind hammocking is to get OFF the ground, or floor, whatever......

[Ewker]

I know opinions vary on this, but I think hanging a hammock in a shelter is just as unacceptable as setting up a tent in a shelter.

If you're going to use the shelter, why not use it the way it was designed to be used?


totally agree with you. Not sure why people think they can setup a tent or hang a hammock in a shelter.

[bear bag hanger]

I went through the Smoky's in 2004 and at the time, they let hammock hangers hang outside even if the shelters weren't full. I talked to rangers almost every night. I did stay in a shelter on my third night, mostly because is was snowing outside and it was dark when I got to the shelter (after going 17 miles that day). Don't know if they still feel hammocks are OK outside or not.

[bear bag hanger]

I know opinions vary on this, but I think hanging a hammock in a shelter is just as unacceptable as setting up a tent in a shelter.

If you're going to use the shelter, why not use it the way it was designed to be used?

Because shelter floors are really uncomfortable!

[SOBO_Pace]

Shelters were designed to be used as shelters and anyone is entitled to use them no matter what the sleep system is. I see no problem hanging hammocks in them. In fact I've set up in them when they were full and people could still sleep under me ( actually there were 4 hammocks set up and 10-12 people sleeping on the floor). If your creative you can set up and not even be over the platform.

[rusty bumper]

I went thru the Smokies in mid-April in 2011. I stayed inside the park 3 nights and spent only one of those nights in a shelter. The night I was in the shelter was miserable weather wise, and I was really glad I was in there. It was packed with hikers sleeping on the dirt floor and one hammock hanging inside. The other 2 nights I tented outside a shelter with no problem...in both cases, the shelter was full when I arrived after 6 pm.

[SassyWindsor]

Shelters were designed to be used as shelters and anyone is entitled to use them no matter what the sleep system is. I see no problem hanging hammocks in them. In fact I've set up in them when they were full and people could still sleep under me ( actually there were 4 hammocks set up and 10-12 people sleeping on the floor). If your creative you can set up and not even be over the platform.


So it's OK to set a tent up or hang a hammock in a shelter, no matter how full. WRONG

[max patch]

Hanging in a shelter is stupid.

Hanging over someone else in a shelter is the height of arrogance.

[Crash]

A hammock vs a tent inside a shelter is NOT THE SAME! Get over it you biased ground dwellers!


Sent from my iPod touch.

[Old Hiker]

On my 2012 attempt, I talked with two ridge-runners and told them I was uncomfortable with staying in close quarters with females who were not relatives. Both times, they told me they had no authority to stop me from tenting outside (ditched my hammock after a week on the Trail), but a ranger MAY come up during the night and MAY ask me to move inside.

One time I tented outside, but the shelter was full. Second time, I decided to stay inside - shelter was not full and a HUGE t-storm came up overnight, high winds, heavy rain and dime-sized hail. I had a Wally-type closed cell pad and it worked pretty well, as I was used to the ground by then.

If I got to the shelter and it wasn't full, I usually got a wall, either topside or bottom. I preferred the wall and came to prefer the topside.

Good luck.

[Odd Man Out]

Take the BMT through the park if not thru hiking. If thru hiking arrive late in the day to the shelter and hope it is full. Other then that there is no legal way to avoid the shelters on the AT.

Or, if you are on a thru hike, use the BMT and just ignore the people who say your are not on a "real thru hiker" if you use the BMT through GSMNP.

[fredmugs]

I've got the SAME issue, and will follow this thread closely, and so far, the replies make sense. I had been actually thinking of a huge non-stop blitz from the southern end and have my wife pick me up at Clingmans dome, spend a night in town, then blitz the north end after a day of rest, something like that. Two huge days, weather and trail conditions permitting. But the full-shelter plan looks more reasonable.

I did the Smokies in 2 days two years ago SOBO. It can be done. If you're not concerned about bears you should be able to hang your food and stealth.

[mtntopper]

[QUOTE=Crash;1399054]A hammock vs a tent inside a shelter is NOT THE SAME! Get over it you biased ground dwellers!

I also hang, however if I were in a shelter and you hung over me I promise that you you would not sleep well!!

[1azarus]

hammocks and tents take up more room than a person in a sleeping bag -- and hanging above people you don't know is probably not socially acceptable --even if permission is granted, so, if there is anyone else in the shelter, putting up either tent or hammock in the sleeping area is wrong in my book. that being said ... err, typed... i don't see anything wrong with waiting for everyone to finish their meals and settle in for the night, and then hanging a hammock OUT of the sleeping platform area, say over or next to the open dining area in the SNP shelters. it does mean you have the responsiblity to get up first in the morning so you are out of everyone's way. when i hammocked in the smokies i think people preferred my sleeping OFF the limited floor space so that they would have more room. it may also have something to do with being old and ugly, but that is another thread entirely.

[Pendragon]

What HE^ said....:)

[Pendragon]

I think it's obvious that setting up a TENT in a shelter is kinda ludicrous, since floor space is at a premium to begin with and if you can set up a tent, you can set it up OUTSIDE, if it's allowed at all. I HAVE seen pics of hangers in shelters, not taking up that valuable floor space, with no one there shooting the hangers dirty looks, so comparing tents to hammocks is apples and oranges. And no, I would not have the "arrogance" to hang above other hikers who for whatever reason felt intruded upon by my presence, which is why I was asking for ways to avoid the shelters altogether. I appreciate the CONSTRUCTIVE responses given me here so far and would ask those of you who were for some reason threatened by the subject to at least read my posts before being so nasty towards me or others who have pitched in here. You can take your attitude out on those who DO hang over your heads, rather than those of us who have the good graces to at least ASK about it before hand. And have a nice day.

[Hitchin' Post]

I don't think it would allow you to avoid shelters entirely, but you could legally avoid a couple by staying at the official campsites on or near the AT that don't have shelters. As an added bonus, those campsites are less likely to draw crowds.

[Karma13]

I don't think it would allow you to avoid shelters entirely, but you could legally avoid a couple by staying at the official campsites on or near the AT that don't have shelters. As an added bonus, those campsites are less likely to draw crowds.

Aren't they at really inconvenient distances from the trail? (I hope that's not a stupid question. I've never camped there, but that's how it seemed to me from looking at the park map.)

[flemdawg1]

I hike thru the Smokies last summer, on more 4 occasions hammockers set up in the shelter, out in front away from the sleeping platform. It didn't bother anyone. But they did it after dark, after everyone had already finished cooking/eating and were settled in.

[Mags]

A hammock vs a tent inside a shelter is NOT THE SAME! Get over it you biased ground dwellers!




Probably not the same, but in a full shelter it is probably still not too kosher to most. :)

[Slo-go'en]

Because of the double bunk system in GSMNP shelters which don't have much head room (top or bottom, I can't sit up without banging my head on something), hanging over the sleeping platform is out of the question. Hanging in the area in front of the platform would have people crashing into you as they tried to go outside to pee in the middle of the night. No buddy is going to be happy with you if they have to get on thier hands and knees to crawl under you to get outside. Either sleep where your suppost to or set up outside.

[flemdawg1]

Because of the double bunk system in GSMNP shelters which don't have much head room (top or bottom, I can't sit up without banging my head on something), hanging over the sleeping platform is out of the question. Hanging in the area in front of the platform would have people crashing into you as they tried to go outside to pee in the middle of the night. No buddy is going to be happy with you if they have to get on thier hands and knees to crawl under you to get outside. Either sleep where your suppost to or set up outside.

No one had to crawl to get outside when they hung while I was there. Hanging inline with traffic is how to avoid that. However they did hang pretty high also (around 5.5 ft off the ground), and there were in 2 lines under Tricorner Knob. Its not hard to figure out how to do things without bothering others IF you take a moment to think about it.

[colorado_rob]

Aren't they at really inconvenient distances from the trail? (I hope that's not a stupid question. I've never camped there, but that's how it seemed to me from looking at the park map.) I just checked... there's one on the trail and just inside the southern end, the Birch Spring Gap CG, and there's one close to the NE end, just down the Snake Den Ridge trail, Ottercreek CG. From that 1st one to Clingmans dome is 27 miles, and from Clingmans to the latter one is about 28 miles. Those are the only non-shelter CG's I see near the AT in the park, looking at the std. NPS map. So, if you can arrange a pickup/dropoff from Clingmans Dome (for a sleep in town somewhere), two 27/28 mile days will avoid having to use those shelters. Just thinkin' out loud here; I'll probably still do the "full shelter, camp just outside" technique.

[Rain Man]

Do these rangers track you down somehow if you are stealth camping a mile off the trail halfway between shelters?

Although the adage generally is "hike your own hike," here on WB there is this rule from the User Agreement that applies to to such discussions:

4. Discussions involving how to commit illegal acts ... are forbidden.

Just sayin'.

Rain Man

.

[max patch]

We keep hearing that hammocks are the greatest thing since sliced bread so I don't understand the need to hang inside a shelter.

[SOBO_Pace]

Shelters were designed to be used as shelters and anyone is entitled to use them no matter what the sleep system is. I see no problem hanging hammocks in them. In fact I've set up in them when they were full and people could still sleep under me ( actually there were 4 hammocks set up and 10-12 people sleeping on the floor). If your creative you can set up and not even be over the platform.


So it's OK to set a tent up or hang a hammock in a shelter, no matter how full. WRONG

Don't recall saying anything about tents.

It is a pain for hammock campers to go through GSMNP because of their rules... Just set up and explain your situation.

[Pendragon]

Sorry, the intention is not to do anything illegal, but to enjoy our hike, within the limitations being imposed by the park management. I don't think anyone can be faulted for trying to avoid discomfort, especially when they are utilizing a style of shelter that is the least impacting short of that hard shelter floor. I would hate to think hammock hangers, some of the strongest practitioners of No Trace Left Behind, would suddenly be considered "outlaws" just because our style of shelter doesn't touch the ground.

[SassyWindsor]

Hanging in a shelter is stupid.

Hanging over someone else in a shelter is the height of arrogance.

Agreed, some hikers just think they can do what they wish, regardless how it affects others. They seem to think the rules don't apply to them. The only good thing about hanging a hammock in a shelter is somewhere a couple of trees aren't getting limbs clipped, notches cut into them, or their bark isn't being rubbed off.

[Alligator]

I don't think it would allow you to avoid shelters entirely, but you could legally avoid a couple by staying at the official campsites on or near the AT that don't have shelters. As an added bonus, those campsites are less likely to draw crowds.


Aren't they at really inconvenient distances from the trail? (I hope that's not a stupid question. I've never camped there, but that's how it seemed to me from looking at the park map.)


I just checked... there's one on the trail and just inside the southern end, the Birch Spring Gap CG, and there's one close to the NE end, just down the Snake Den Ridge trail, Ottercreek CG. From that 1st one to Clingmans dome is 27 miles, and from Clingmans to the latter one is about 28 miles. Those are the only non-shelter CG's I see near the AT in the park, looking at the std. NPS map. So, if you can arrange a pickup/dropoff from Clingmans Dome (for a sleep in town somewhere), two 27/28 mile days will avoid having to use those shelters. Just thinkin' out loud here; I'll probably still do the "full shelter, camp just outside" technique.

There are a couple of numbered backcountry sites that are not particularly far off the AT in GSMNP. You do have to get down off the ridgeline to access them but if you don't want to sleep in the shelters, it is entirely doable. When my hiking buddy and went through, we planned on using three but ended up only hitting two of them as he wasn't feeling well one day and so we ended up at an unplanned shelter.

[Gambit]

To be honest, shelters have there goods and bads, environment over all, good. But they are really a crutch for the inexperienced. My goal since GSMNP is the only rule restricting area as far as shelter camping only, I decided to just go ahead and drudge thru the park and get it out of the way, and not plan any more trips in the park. I like the idea of hanging around the shelter until it is full and then saying " whelp looks like i gotta set up my tent. If the shelter doesnt doesnt fill up...Lie? lol "well when I got here the shelter WAS full but a few have decided to hike on and well...I already had my tent set up :/" always easier to ask permission than forgiveness.

[Lauriep]

Here at ATC we have received a couple calls about whether it is legal to use a hammock on the A.T. in the Great Smoky Mountains National Park. Yesterday I called the backcountry specialist in the park to get the definitive response. Here's what she said.

Hammocks are acceptable in the same circumstances (when a person who meets the park's thru-hiker definition finds the shelter full and has the appropriate permit) and locations (in the immediate vicinity of an A.T. shelter) that tents are acceptable. It is not acceptable to hang a hammock in a shelter or from a shelter. The park has started noticing resource impacts from hammocks, meaning damage to trees and trampling. She hopes that the A.T. community can work together to educate our fellow hikers about minimizing impacts and following good Leave No Trace practices. If behavior can be changed voluntarily through education, then additional restrictions will not be needed and the freedom to use a hammock will be preserved.

If you use a hammock, please use a wide band around the tree to protect the bark. To reduce trampling impacts, choose a location where vegetation will have minimal damage (choose areas with durable surfaces like grass or leaves, rather than lush vegetation), use soft-soled shoes, and be mindful of your footprints, especially in areas where there is fragile vegetation.

More information about hammock camping from Leave No Trace can be found at http://leavenotracecommunity.blogspot.com/2009/03/hammock-camping.html.

More on Leave No Trace generally can be found at www.appalachiantrail.org/lnt (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/lnt) and www.lnt.org (http://www.lnt.org).

Please share this information with other hammockers.

Happy hammocking!

Laurie P.
ATC

[Lauriep]

I suspect most regulars on WhiteBlaze are conscientious about being low impact in their practices. It's the people who don't come here and do research first that are most likely to be ignorant of best practices.

So, how about this for trail magic: carry an extra set of tree saver straps and offer them to hammocker who isn't using them?

[RED-DOG]

Make sure the shelter is full when you get to them that way you can sleep in your tent, or take Alternate route through the park.

[Rain Man]

... shelters ... are really a crutch for the inexperienced. ...

When I read comments like this, I remember how often a certain hiker by the name of Earl Shaffer used shelters and even praised finding them, or was distressed to find them burned down when he hoped to stay in them.

Rain Man

.

[Northern Lights]

People hung in shelters last year when the weather was really bad, we encouraged and helped them. Better for them to be inside than outside when the weather is horrific. Sometimes you just have to be a little flexable where safety is a concern. No one ever hung in the way of the rest of the people in the shelter and they were usually up really early to remove the hammock.

[gunner76]

The only good thing about hanging a hammock in a shelter is somewhere a couple of trees aren't getting limbs clipped, notches cut into them, or their bark isn't being rubbed off.

A properly set up hammock using straps does not damage trees. On the local hiking trail that I frequently hike (like every week) and hang, I have been using the same trees for 2+ years and the trees show no sign of damage while others come thru with their axes and knives and chop and cut away at the live trees. When I take down my hammock you can not tell I was ever there.

[Mags]

When I read comments like this, I remember how often a certain hiker by the name of Earl Shaffer used shelters and even praised finding them, or was distressed to find them burned down when he hoped to stay in them.

Rain Man

.

1948 is different from 2013.

In 1948 few people were out on the AT and shelters were a simple affair of three walls and a roof.

In 2013, they are overly built up structures than tend to be over crowded.

Not a good comparison.

I doubt Earl, who lived in rural PA and lived a simple life post AT, would appreciate the crowded and overly built up AT shelters seen today.

In fact, when a shelter was built in the early 1990s with his name on it, he requested his name be taken off as it was way too built up for his taste.

Last shelter Earl Shaffer built..in fact it is called the Earl Shaffer shelter!


http://fauster.smugmug.com/photos/207696947_2XJJB-M.jpg

Typical 21st century Earl Shaffer would not like. ;)

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-hkyRsNSyy9g/UCFeFjjhSUI/AAAAAAAAHws/JuUSeQNqV30/s1600/Partnership+Shelter.jpg

[daddytwosticks]

Holy crap, Mags! Where is that last shelter at? It looks nicer than my house. :)

[CrumbSnatcher]

Holy crap, Mags! Where is that last shelter at? It looks nicer than my house. :)
i bet they deliver pizza to that shelter

[Alligator]

i bet they deliver pizza to that shelterI think that shelter may even have plumbing!

[SassyWindsor]

.............. Where is that last shelter at? It looks nicer than my house. :)


Partnership Shelter
Smyth Va 17S 462326E 4073826N

[RED-DOG]

I bet that shelter has a shower great edition if you been on trail for days and days.

[RED-DOG]

I think it's funny that Earl Shaffer would build his little shelter beside one of the best shelter's in PA which is Peter's MT, I have to admit when i Thru-Hiked in 2006 i stayed at Peters MT and took a picture of that little shelter, but i would'nt even think about sleeping in it too scary looking!

[Slo-go'en]

I think it's funny that Earl Shaffer would build his little shelter beside one of the best shelter's in PA which is Peter's MT, I have to admit when i Thru-Hiked in 2006 i stayed at Peters MT and took a picture of that little shelter, but i would'nt even think about sleeping in it too scary looking!

I belive the Shaffer shelter pre-dates the other.

[Lyle]

From my understanding, hanging from the rafters or posts of a shelter is not acceptable. The shelter structure was not designed for side stresses. Hammocks put a LOT of stress on it's attachments, a lot more than most hammockers realize. Stress that the shelter structure may or may not be able to withstand. Even if it doesn't fail during your use, it can weaken the structure so it fails prematurely later.

[Pendragon]

I'm sorry that my supposedly simple and straightforward question has set off such a firestorm, to the point that I was accused to promoting illegal activity or trying to kill trees (while my embrace of hammocking was intended to practice just the opposite), but thankfully some of you came through with helpful and THOUGHTFUL information which was both respectful and informative, and I thank you for that.

[Chaco Taco]

I'm sorry that my supposedly simple and straightforward question has set off such a firestorm, to the point that I was accused to promoting illegal activity or trying to kill trees (while my embrace of hammocking was intended to practice just the opposite), but thankfully some of you came through with helpful and THOUGHTFUL information which was both respectful and informative, and I thank you for that.
Its winter.....its whiteblaze. People will start an arguement over which direction to take a piss.

[daddytwosticks]

Its winter.....its whiteblaze. People will start an arguement over which direction to take a piss. WITH the wind! :)

[Train Wreck]

WITH the wind! :)

Against the wind :D

[Slo-go'en]

Against the wind :D

90 degrees to the wind - while leaning at a 45 degree angle! ;)

[aficion]

Its winter.....its whiteblaze. People will start an arguement over which direction to take a piss.

Depends how hard its blowing. If the wind is high enough, you can just lay on your back and piss straight up, and it'll just all blow away. It's just pissin.

[Chaco Taco]

nice thread drift... you are welcome :p

[Chaco Taco]

Depends how hard its blowing. If the wind is high enough, you can just lay on your back and piss straight up, and it'll just all blow away. It's just pissin.
Priceless!!!

[jbwood5]

Do a VERY long mile day and hike from Fontana to Davenport in a day. Didn't squeaky do that?

Did Newfound Gap to Fontana a couple of years back. We left Newfound before Sunrise and got to Fontana just before 3:00 AM next morning with a bright headlamp. That alone was very tough and I was in great shape then and only had a day pack on. I can't imagine a continuous, non-stop hike through the Smokies even under perfect weather conditions. I know Dave Horton used to have a New Years Day tradition of runing end to end (S to N), but he had to bail one year at Clingmans, take the road to Newfound and get ride out do to freezing rain, howling wind, and snow. Not a good time in my book. :)

[aficion]

So in the Smokies, it is not okay to hang your food bag over someone in a shelter, but it is ok to hang yourself there?
This trail etiquette stuff sure gets complicated.

[max patch]

So in the Smokies, it is not okay to hang your food bag over someone in a shelter, but it is ok to hang yourself there?
This trail etiquette stuff sure gets complicated.

No. If you read post 47 by Laurie of the ATC, she talked to GSMNP personnel who specifically stated that you could not hang a hammock in the shelters.

[turtle fast]

Just dress up in a bear costume and sleep in the shelter...you should have no company...if its a good costume.

[Rain Man]

1948 is different from 2013. ... I doubt Earl, who lived in rural PA and lived a simple life post AT, would appreciate the crowded and overly built up AT shelters seen today.

For those not too keen on channeling the dead or the practice of necromancy, we have Earl's own published words. And if his writings about his original hike aren't good enough, that's cool. We have his writings on his 50th anniversary hike, in 1998: "the Appalachian Trail, Calling Me Back To The Hills."

He regularly stayed in shelters. He repeatedly made plain that he was happy to be able to do so. Just check pages 24 (Deep Gap Shelter), 59 (calling the Boy Scout Shelter the shabbiest on the AT, BUT "certainly a welcome haven), 67 (two nights in Bearfence Mtn. Hut, and the Jim and Molly Denton Shelter, the "Hilton of the AT" with immaculate grounds), 75 (Antietam Shelter), 79 (William Penn Shelter), 87 (Webatuck Shelter, with even food for a party), 91 (Brassie Brook Lean-to and Glen Brook Lean-to and Tom Leonard Lean-to), 99 (Melville Nauheim Shelter, a very welcome place to stay, Goddard Shelter during nasty weather), 102 (Big Branch Shelter, one of my favorite had been removed, Stony Brook Shelter, and Wintturi Shelter one rainy night), 103 (Happy Hill Shelter), 107 (Eliza Brook Shelter, full but I was able to stay), 110 (Galehead Hut, Ethan Pond Shelter, and Mizpah Spring Hut), 115-117 (5 nights total at The Cabin, plus one at Spaulding Mountain Lean-to), 119 (Moxie Bald Lean-to and Lean-to on Chairback Mtn, crowded but they made room), 121 (Cooper Brook Falls Lean-to), 121 (Rainbow Stream Lean-to).

Shaffer mentioned other shelters, but I could not infer if he stayed at them, so did not include them in this list. Nor (except for The Cabin) did I include such places as Shaw's Boarding House.

But plainly Shaffer appreciated shelters both in 1948 AND 50 years later and said so. Unless it was their poor condition or placement, he did not make negative comments about shelters, specifically or in general.

In counterpoise, Shaffer did not have any problem complaining (or not) when he wished. Not only did he put his negative opinion in writing about the shabby Boy Scout Shelter, but he complained about other conditions of the AT. Just check pages 79 ("steep and treacherous slope that really ought to be bypassed," then "the dreariest stretch on the entire Trail, several miles of desolation caused by fumes from a zinc refinery"), 83 ("the trail is much rougher now than it was in '48"), 85 ("an unhappy night in the wet woods ensued"), 91 ("this route was not on the Trail in '48 and shouldn't be now..."), 101 ("many of the shelters in Vermont have been either renamed of replaced since '48"), 117 ("the Bigelow Range, where new lean-tos have been built"). Notice NO complaint about those last two general statements about shelters.

In short, when I want to guess at what someone may have thought about this or that, I go to the original source whenever possible. With Shaffer's TWO books, it's possible to read exactly what he thought about AT shelters, including fancy ones.

Rain:sunMan

.

[Mags]

In short, when I want to guess at what someone may have thought about this or that, I go to the original source whenever possible. With Shaffer's TWO books, it's possible to read exactly what he thought about AT shelters, including fancy ones.



.

For a lawyer, you took an awfully long time to post a rambling, inaccurate and misleading argument using truncated quotes.

I don't have the time to look up the same book as it is at home.

But what is the point? :)

Suspect you'll wait two weeks again to give another long winded reply that is not entirely accurate. If this means you win, so be it. ;)

[mtntopper]

For a lawyer, you took an awfully long time to post a rambling, inaccurate and misleading argument using truncated quotes.

I don't have the time to look up the same book as it is at home.

But what is the point? :)

Suspect you'll wait two weeks again to give another long winded reply that is not entirely accurate. If this means you win, so be it. ;)


My thoughts exactly Mags!!!!!!!!!!

[bear bag hanger]

Well, I had planned on waiting for the shelters to be full, then hanging up my hammock outside during my 2013 AT thru hike, but it looks like everyone will be doing that! What do I do now?

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2

[Slo-go'en]

Well, I had planned on waiting for the shelters to be full, then hanging up my hammock outside during my 2013 AT thru hike, but it looks like everyone will be doing that! What do I do now?

When the time comes, I suspect you will be hoping there is space in the shelter, just like everyone else... (Especially if its rainy, windy and/or cold out)

[max patch]

Well, I had planned on waiting for the shelters to be full, then hanging up my hammock outside during my 2013 AT thru hike, but it looks like everyone will be doing that! What do I do now?



The percentage of people who claim they hate shelters is a whole lot higher on WB than what I observe in real life.

[Mags]

The percentage of people who claim they hate shelters is a whole lot higher on WB than what I observe in real life.

Yes and no.

I think for those whose initial experience was backpacking prior to the Appalachian Trail, the idea of shelters is an odd concept. When I stated backpacking (in NH), the idea of using a shelter seemed odd. Seemed much better to pick my own spot and use a tent.

I think for those whose initial backpacking experience is hiking the AT (as opposed to hiking trails that happen to be part of the AT), the idea of shelters seems more natural.

Shelters are great on a cold, rainy and windy day...but perhaps not sharing it with 16 of my closest friends. :)

[Rasty]

The percentage of people who claim they hate shelters is a whole lot higher on WB than what I observe in real life.

I don't hate shelters. I prefer a tent when I am trying to get away from solid walls. If it's going to look like a house then it should have wi-fi, cable, hot water, HVAC, kids to make me coffee, a couple of cats and a filled cookie jar! Oreo cookies are my prefered late night snack.

[wornoutboots]

I would avoid Tri-corner if you can.

just curious why? the setting is the best of all Smokies shelters & it sets you up for a decent days hike to standing bear or at least just out of the park to State Line branch which has stream side camping just out of the park.

[wornoutboots]

Sorry OP this thread has drifted in a somewhat common WB Cluster mess :rolleyes: I'd say keep your Smokies trek simple & enjoyable. You may want to consider having a larger inflatable pad shipped to you in Fontana & ship it out at Standing Bear, then if you have to use the shelter, then do so (with ear plugs). Hike longer days, get there late & if there is a spot, deal with it. Get up early & start it all over again. The main thing is, the Smokies are beautiful so enjoy them, don't let the rules take up space in your head & get in your way...............roll with them! Enjoy Your Hike!

[Pendragon]

Sorry OP this thread has drifted in a somewhat common WB Cluster mess :rolleyes: I'd say keep your Smokies trek simple & enjoyable. You may want to consider having a larger inflatable pad shipped to you in Fontana & ship it out at Standing Bear, then if you have to use the shelter, then do so (with ear plugs). Hike longer days, get there late & if there is a spot, deal with it. Get up early & start it all over again. The main thing is, the Smokies are beautiful so enjoy them, don't let the rules take up space in your head & get in your way...............roll with them! Enjoy Your Hike!
Thank you so very much, Mr Boots, I appreciate the straightforward advice without all the un-called for vitriol. Perhaps the moderater should go ahead and close this thread, because I did manage to get a few helpful answers and I never intended to see if I could break the White Blaze record for longest thread without constructive response. And yes, thank you, I do intend to try my damnedest to enjoy what will probably be my last great adventure.

[Mags]

And yes, thank you, I do intend to try my damnedest to enjoy what will probably be my last great adventure.

Look up Marcia and Ken Powers. (http://www.gottawalk.com/) Then think of your above statement.

Some of your best years may be just coming up.

[Nasty Dog Virus]

The old Earl Shaffer Shelter was dismantled a few years ago and taken to the Appalachian Trail Museum at Pine Grove Furnace St. Park.

[Chaco Taco]

Sorry OP this thread has drifted in a somewhat common WB Cluster mess :rolleyes: I'd say keep your Smokies trek simple & enjoyable. You may want to consider having a larger inflatable pad shipped to you in Fontana & ship it out at Standing Bear, then if you have to use the shelter, then do so (with ear plugs). Hike longer days, get there late & if there is a spot, deal with it. Get up early & start it all over again. The main thing is, the Smokies are beautiful so enjoy them, don't let the rules take up space in your head & get in your way...............roll with them! Enjoy Your Hike!
Stayed once, flooded in lots of spots, dark and dreary. all you could smell was the privy. Just had a bad vibe. I had been there in 07 and 08, tented in front of the privy.

The Smokies are fun. Start late and end late. Night hiking in the Smokies is fun if you get good weather.

[Chaco Taco]

especially Spence Field and Thunderhead and Rocky Top