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View Full Version : Section hike in Whites-what should I expect?



Capt.Scott
01-23-2013, 19:53
I am sectioning AT SOBO. Whites are next and I may have to go in Sept'13. Is this an ok time? Snow? Storms? Leaf peepers? thanks for any info

Razor
01-23-2013, 20:01
Yes to all the above .It could also be a bad time with all the above and miserable weather It is so variable no one can tell you. You might not be able to know the night before . Be prepared for anything and especially maps to be able to bail if it gets really bad. Expect the worse and be prepared for the worst'

HikerMom58
01-23-2013, 20:04
Mountain Mike (WB member) will be able to help you with that question... he know the Whites, like the back of his hand. I'm sure there are others on here that will help you out as well. I don't think you have to worry about leaf peepers tho. I'm from NH myself, I remember the peak of the leaf season was always around my birthday, October 6. If you plan to be out of the Whites by then, you should be fine. They say you need to make reservations really early for staying in the huts, if you plan to do that.

einshine
01-23-2013, 20:11
Yes, its unpredictable, but late fall is my favorite time to hike the Whites (I'm from MA). You no longer have the black flies, September is cool enough that its very comfortable to hike in (usually). However things can change quick. I think the last two years, Mt. Washington has had snow in early October- not a ton but enough. As Razor said, be prepared- but if you are its a fantastic time to hike.

2NewKnees
01-23-2013, 20:48
It's a beautiful hike through the whites. Expect it to be cold, rainy, or possibly snow. The views above treeline are outstanding.

jeffmeh
01-23-2013, 21:15
I concur on both counts: It is a great time to hike the Whites, and you need to be prepared for cold, rain, and snow.

hikerboy57
01-23-2013, 21:28
I concur on both counts: It is a great time to hike the Whites, and you need to be prepared for cold, rain, and snow.

+2

cold rain and snow-doesnt that belong in the deadheadthread?

Papa D
01-23-2013, 21:31
I just did the Whites in August - - lots of fun - - I went from US4 in VT north to Pinkham Notch, NH - - I did that in 12 days - - it was about 170 miles, so roughly 14 mpd - - this would be a fairly aggressive pace for most - - p/m me if you want - - other than staying in the Dungeon at Lake of the Clouds, I didn't stay in any huts - - mostly $8 tent sites, free shelters and free camping.

Kernel
01-23-2013, 21:34
I did many hikes in the Whites as late as end of October. The views are awesome, the foliage incredible at lower elevations, and even though weather can change drastically locally, you can check the aviation weather a few days in advance to increase your odds.

kernel

Slo-go'en
01-23-2013, 22:22
Folage typically peaks about the first week of October. By Columbus day weekend it is usually past peak in the Whites. Early to mid September is usually pretty quiet, espcially during the week. Kids are back to school and the colors haven't really gotten too far along the draw a crowd. Weather is still warm to mild and the risk of really bad weather is pretty slim, but always possible. The only wild card is the collage orinatation groups, but they typically set up under tarps and stay away from areas with restricted camping and fees.

EriKelly
01-23-2013, 22:37
i really wish people would stop staying in the dungeon. It is suppose to be used for emergencies only. They are seriously debating locking it again. I personally pack out many pounds of garbage every time i climb washington or monroe because of the constant use of it by people who expect it to be available whenever theyd like

Mountain Mike
01-24-2013, 01:13
i really wish people would stop staying in the dungeon. It is suppose to be used for emergencies only. They are seriously debating locking it again. I personally pack out many pounds of garbage every time i climb washington or monroe because of the constant use of it by people who expect it to be available whenever theyd like
In season AMC uses it as a quasi shelter & charges to stay there.

Mountain Mike
01-24-2013, 01:19
Here's what I wrote for a friend who planned to drive up & do a section hike of the Whites. Sept is a great time to hike there. You can get snow anytime of the year, so be prepared.

Here’s a quick overview of the hiking the Whites with limited stays at the AMC Huts. I present it northbound, I prefer tougher accents to decent, but either direction works. A lot of it is based on AMC shuttle system so I limited my scope to I-93 > Gorham. I am biased to AMC parking spots because they are what I have used. There are numerous hotels, B & Bs, & hostels that you could arrange parking with & maybe a shuttle too.
Campsites charge a fee along the AT. I believe $9 per person regardless if you tent or stay in shelter. Tent platforms are wood. Carry extra cord to compensate for stakes(they have eyeletes along the sides or carry a few screw in picture hooks. Most have caretakers to watch over the sites, manage composting privys & collect fees, etc, They also Check in with the AMC several times a day for weather briefings. They also know where decent legal stealth campsites are & if your plans change can radio Hut reservations ahead for you. (hint….share adult beverages with them will earn you karma there & further down your hike)

Most people heading from the south come up via I-93 & get off in Lincoln . From there take the “Kank” NH 112 over to Conway. It’s a beautful ride. Stop at the vistas & enjoy them. North Conway is a tourist town but at the north end there is an EMS in an old Victorian era hotel & almost across the street International Mountain Equipment. Check their basement out for used consignment gear. LL bean has an outlet store just south & there are numerous dining & lodging options. There’s a scenic railroad that travels up to AMC Highland center thru Crawford Notch, Mt Washington Observatory has it’s museum there, several covered bridges in the area…and many other things to do if you have time. Just north of town stop at the visitor center for a spectacular southern view of the presidential Range & Mt Washington.

I would initially plan to stash a car at the AMC Highland center. You can catch a shuttle back to I-93 & hit several trailheads. It gets to AT/Liberty Springs Trailhead very late morning. It is a steep trail but only a few miles. If you want a short day, camp at Liberty Springs CS. From there Garfield, Guyot, & Ethan Pond Have Shelters & Tent sites. You could shortcut Ethan Pond by hitting the AZ trail but you will miss Theroux Falls, Ethan Pond ( About my personal favorite campsite in the Whites) & Aruthea? Falls along with Webster Cliff Trail. Other than Webster Cliff on north side of Crawford Notch what you would skip is mostly on old logging RR beds. History point: as you traverse this section as you look left/south. Almost all of this was logged at one time. Most of the trails in the Pemigiwassset Wilderness are along old timber RR beds. Check local bookstores & museums & you will be amazed.

OK Now you are at Rt 302/ Crawford Notch & Back at your car. AMC offers lodging & a shower but if you have wheels you can find cheaper, more private accommodations, or hit a campground. I would consider moving the vehicle to Pinkham & catching a shuttle back again. If weather is good do Webster Cliff Trail. Hands will be required at times climbing. If bad go from Highland Center up Bridal path. Destination is Lake of the Clouds Hut. From Mizpah Hut/ Nauhem Tent site most is above tree line. Be careful & consider changing plans if it gets bad. Splurge here if you have the money to stay. If not get a caretaker to radio in reservations for Dungeon (this is where Karma pays off) for normal campsite fee they have limited hiker accommodations for self sufficient hikers. From there think of Osgood Campsite or one of the Randolh Mountain Clubs cabins. This section is almost all above treeline. If it’s bad, bail on any one of numerous trails to Pinkham. From there it’s a pleasant walk down to Pinkham, or take Valley Way Trail to US 2 & catch a shuttle. Pinkham does have coin operated showers in its basement, lodging & family served meals, or hop in your car & do your own thing.

While at Pinkham take the 15 minutes & climb Table rock? For a awesome view of the Presidentials & What you just hiked over.

From Pinkham to Gorham most hikers can make it to Imp & then Gorham/US-2 If you have time & want less crowds consider the Mahoosics. A loop can be done off the Success Pond Road out of Berlin. The Mahoosic Notch is the hardest mile of the entire AT. I have yet to meet a hiker that disputes this. It’s a scramble, crawl but very memorable. It’s rugged & rewarding & not as many people you will encounter so of them.

This being said it has been a few years since I have been there. I grew up spending vacations in Berlin, NH & when I got older the Whites were my go to destination. There are a few errors here & many typos. Just a first draft. If you see them point them out to me please. If you have a question never hesitate to email me: [email protected].



Links:
Great pics & general info http://hikethewhites.com/

AMC (Appalacian Mountain Club) maintainers of Huts, Campsites & Shelters in the whites along with shuttle service. http://www.outdoors.org (http://www.outdoors.org/)

Randolph Mountain Club: Shelter & cabins on north end of Presidentials http://www.randolphmountainclub.org (http://www.randolphmountainclub.org/)

peakbagger
01-24-2013, 08:56
Mountain Mike has some good info. The weather in September can and does change dramatically over the month. Usually the first 3 weeks or so is great summer weather during the day and cooler evenings with the leaves starting to change colors, but most years the end of the month can get stormy just in time for the beginning of the peak leaf season. About 1 year out of three the high summits will get snowfall by the last weekend of the month. It melts rapidly in the morning but its an indication of how cold it can get. Temps can vary from 80 to 20 deg F. In some cases rather than carrying super warm gear some folks just take a day off down low if the weather is too cold, each hut posts a forecast each day so you can plan ahead and the entire AT throuhg the whites is usually less than 4 hours to a trailhead via side trail.

One thing to plan is to buy a map of the area, the AT is not always signed as the AT, rather the AT is on locally trails with other names . Its easy to get confused although the whites blazing is always the AT (but can be decidely sparse in some section like the Great gulf.

September is also the peak month for the huts and the staff at the huts usually switch over as the college students have headed back to school. You do want to keep in mind what huts are open when, this link may help http://www.outdoors.org/lodging/whitemountains/huts/hut-season-dates.cfm. Dont plan on getting thruhiker status at the huts if you are sectioning. Someone noted the Dungeon at Lakes, if Lake is open, then you pay for it and the privilege or sleeping in what smells like a urinal.

If you use the AMC shuttles realize they are timed to accomodate hut guests so they may be inconvenent to you, most folks lose a day of hiking trying to take advantage of the shuttle versus paying far more for a custom shuttle.

Plan on full campsites and shelters labor day week and all weekends of the month. Large college orientiation groups can end up in a small site and fill it up. Be ware the the restricted use area requirements, basically within 1/4 of a mile of a established tentsite or anywhere above treeline is no camping plus to make it interesting, there are other areas that have been arbitrarilly posted as a RUA with no good way of determining that in advance.

I do recomend going south through the whites as you will get the highest most exposed summits out of the way early in the month, the trade off is there are no easy stretches to get back in shape. From Rt2 in Shelburne its a steep up and the ascent up North Carter is good reminder that you are in the whites and have to adjust your miles accordingly. The inn in Shelburne is real convienent to the trailhead in Shelburne and you may be able to set up a shuttle through them.

WIth reagrds to MAC hihgland center, be ware that there is a lowest priced hostel called Shapleigh lodge on the smae premises and you are still entitled to the AYCE breakfasts.

You can catch a bus that connects up with the AMC shuttle system at Lincoln and Pinkham, the shuttles

Kerosene
01-24-2013, 10:26
I've hiked the Whites in mid-September twice, both with incredible weather. Of course, the weather in the weeks before or after was not as good, so it's all a crapshoot. The nice part about September is that the chance of significant snowfall is less than October, and the crowds thin out after Labor Day (at least during the week). Bugs were not an issue on either hike. I had very cool, windy weather on my last hike, but nothing below freezing.

The downside of mid-September is that you're ahead of the fall colors (closer to first week of October with global warming), and some services available in the summer may not be as readily available. All in all, I'm a big proponent of fall hiking.

jeffmeh
01-24-2013, 10:41
This being said it has been a few years since I have been there. I grew up spending vacations in Berlin, NH & when I got older the Whites were my go to destination. There are a few errors here & many typos. Just a first draft. If you see them point them out to me please.

Since you asked: :)
1) EMS is no longer at the Eastern Slopes Inn, but further south on 16, easily spotted on the left if one is heading north.
2) Arethusa Falls
3) Nauman Tent Site (by Mizpah Hut)
4) Mahoosuc

That said, it was a very good write-up, and as I am not perfect either I may have missed something.

Hosaphone
01-24-2013, 12:57
Just be prepared. You can get some serious weather at elevation even in September. It can be 70 degrees in the nearest town, but sleeting sideways with gusts at 50mph and everything covered in ice when you get out on an exposed ridge.

It's not Denali by any means, but don't underestimate the Whites in any season.

jeffmeh
01-24-2013, 16:06
It's much sneakier than Denali, as people unfamiliar with the Whites often underestimate the severity of the weather, given the relatively low altitude. That can be perilous indeed.

Tinker
01-24-2013, 16:40
On one of my earliest hikes, in mid October, I did the Garfield Ridge Trail from Franconia Notch to Garfield Pond with two friends (1st night). One of my friends had decided to use his nearly new Vasque Whitney boots (some of you will remember those!). He slowed us down and we ended up tenting just off the trail by the outlet stream of the pond. Overnight we had freezing rain. We had to crack it off of the tent to pack it up. The slight climb to the shelter from the pond was encrusted in 1/4" of solid ice (over boulders, mostly). We had to scout ahead and use every single flat surface for footing or risk a bruising slide. My friend was so miserable we decided to spend the day and night at the shelter, where his rented Thermarest went flat overnight :(. It warmed up and we were able to hike over to Galehead and down the Gale River Trail the next day.

Don't plan on hiking on a schedule set in stone. The weather is very unpredictable. I hiked in sleet in late June one year on the Bondcliff Trail. Be prepared for anything.

As Housaphone stated above, it can be sleeting sideways. Sleet driven by wind feels like being sandblasted - not fun. :eek:

Tinker
01-24-2013, 16:44
I am sectioning AT SOBO. Whites are next and I may have to go in Sept'13. Is this an ok time? Snow? Storms? Leaf peepers? thanks for any info

Just noticed you're from Richmond. I lived there between 1975 and 1977, when you were a little squirt :p. Time equalizes things. :)

Snowleopard
01-24-2013, 17:22
The weather can be as dangerous as others have said, so be prepared. On the other hand, in September the weather is more stable and you can get long periods of gorgeous weather. Sept. and Oct. are the best times for New England.

The end of one September, I hiked Mt. Adams, Madison and Jefferson staying at an RMC cabin. The weather was beautiful, sunny and 60F on top, but hikers who came over Mt. Washington told us that over night it got to 10F and 90 mph winds. We could hear the wind howling above us, but by the time we got above treeline both days it was really nice.

Capt.Scott
01-25-2013, 18:05
I really appreciate all of the input. Exactly what I was looking for. Mountain Man, thanks for the details. I will hopefully be sobo from Gorham the last two weeks of September. I did Maine in various weeks of September, so certainly similar.

Thanks again

Chaco Taco
01-25-2013, 19:59
I just did the Whites in August - - lots of fun - - I went from US4 in VT north to Pinkham Notch, NH - - I did that in 12 days - - it was about 170 miles, so roughly 14 mpd - - this would be a fairly aggressive pace for most - - p/m me if you want - - other than staying in the Dungeon at Lake of the Clouds, I didn't stay in any huts - - mostly $8 tent sites, free shelters and free camping.

Yea there are some sweet spots to camp just off the trail in The Whites. The blue blazes are somewhat more awesome than parts of the AT. Its alllllgood though in September. You can get away with a 25-35 bag. I am still partial to my goose 15 bag in summer. Its more of a 25 now. Still pack a baselayer, a hat cuz you just never know. I did the same route. Only stayed at LOC. If you plan it and can push a little, and walk The Whites on the cheap. Just make sure you observe the "guidelines" for alpine camping.
http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5363715.pdf

Chaco Taco
01-25-2013, 20:01
Make sure you stay at Guyot and get a sunset and or sunrise on West Bond. Best summit in the Whites, hands down

I really appreciate all of the input. Exactly what I was looking for. Mountain Man, thanks for the details. I will hopefully be sobo from Gorham the last two weeks of September. I did Maine in various weeks of September, so certainly similar.

Thanks again

Mountain Mike
01-25-2013, 21:45
I would advise getting a larger map rather than an AT strip map. http://www.amazon.com/White-Mountains-Waterproof-Trail-Map/dp/1890060232/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1359158527&sr=8-1&keywords=white+mountains+map something like this one. It will give you bad weather alternate routes. Between that & the shuttle schedule it gives you the option of skipping around if a storm is coming in. Presidentials & Franconia are not places I would like to be on in bad weather but places you really want to be when it's nice!! I've been on Mt Washington within a week two different years. One time was blizzard conditions , next year I was almost to hot with just a wind shell & t-shirt. I'm biased because it's my old stomping ground but it's still one of my favorite part of AT.

Hops53
01-25-2013, 23:32
absolutely

Chaco Taco
01-26-2013, 10:18
The Nat Geo Map is great