View Full Version : Experience with Aquamira and flirting with Sawyer
Wrote a couple of blog entries about water treatment/filtration. This last season I hiked 644 miles using Aquamira and employing Clelland's concept of premixing it for daily use, That's one post.
Late last season I began to see a lot of folks packing the Sawyer squeeze system and liked it's simplicity. When I saw it advertised as a 3oz field weight, I thought it was a no-brainer considering my Aquamira system weighs that much. I questioned just what Sawyer means by field weight, questioned the accuracy of my scale, ordered standard weights, found my scale is accurate, and fought the impulse of throwing the damn filter in the trash. That's another post
One's a love story, the other a tale of half truths, disappointment, self doubt and anger ... Enjoy!
http://www.laughingdog.com/
Hosaphone
01-24-2013, 00:26
I'm in the same boat as you... I've used Aqua Mira for a few years now, and recently picked up a Squeeze. Haven't used the Squeeze in the field yet, but on paper I like it. My only concern is that I will get fed up with using it.
Yes, the weight is higher than 2.5oz or whatever is advertised. Figure it's always going to be wet, and you will want the syringe. You can get smaller syringes or rig up ways to backflush using a bladder... But either way, I have the weight listed at 4.5oz in my spreadsheet. Still lighter and easier to use than most filters I'm aware of.
Maybe your problem is that you're only planning to use the bladder for filtering into another container. Why not make it a part of your water carrying system? Here's my setup: one 1L plastic bottle, one 3L platypus. During the day I typically only ever fill the bottle, but for dry camps or long dry stretches I fill up the bladder. I can just filter what I need out of the platy into the bottle, my cooking pot, etc.
On paper the filter is a couple ounces heavier than Aqua Mira, but that isn't the whole story. A filter allows you to camel up on water at the source and carry less on your back. With chemicals you need to wait before you can drink. Look at it this way - the filter basically weighs 2 gulps of water... You can drink a whole liter right at the source and never have to carry it, if you so desire.
Of course if you don't filter all your water this advantage is negated. On the AT, Aqua Mira might be a better choice if you only selectively purify.
Hosaphone
01-24-2013, 00:29
Basically, I feel like the filter doesn't look as good on a gear spreadsheet, but in reality it can actually save you a significant amount of pack weight if you take advantage of being able to drink right at the source.
A couple of good points. Unless water is very plentiful, I usually carry a couple of empty 1L Platys, and I could certainly leave one behind with this system. I know some hikers just hooked a large bottle to the input side of the filter, left it there, and drank directly from the filter all the time.
Since I am at home goofing off today, I decided to conduct a scientific experiment in order to determine how water remaining inside of the Sawyer Squeeze affects weight. Some have said that for comparison purposes, the weight of the remaining water in the filter makes a significant weight difference. Here are the results that I have confirmed using a scientifically calibrated scale (from Wal-Mart):
1) The unused Sawyer filter weights 3.3 ounces.
2) Immediately after filtering one liter of water, the filter weighs 4.2 ounces.
3) After reattaching the empty one litter bag to the dirty end of the filter and squeezing air from the bag through the filter, the filter weighs 3.5 ounces.
4) After holding the filter in my hand and slinging the filter around over my head ten times, the filter weighs 3.4 ounces.
5) After holding the filter in my hand and slinging the filter around over my head ten times while yelling AIYEEEE, the filter weighs 3.4 ounces.
6) The one liter Sawyer bag (the old version) weighs 0.8 ounces when dry versus 0.9 when wet.
Conclusions:
1) The weight of the remaining water in the Sawyer filter after slinging ten times is insignificant.
2) Yelling AIYEEEE does not affect the weight of the remaining water in the Sawyer filter.
3) Maintaining a reasonably firm grasp of the filter while slinging it over your head is necessary if you plan on locating the filter for future use.
Starchild
01-24-2013, 12:01
...
Of course if you don't filter all your water this advantage is negated....
Not so sure about that. If you go unfiltered/untreated you choice of water sources may be more limited meaning carrying more water from sources that seem pure to help you bypass ones that look questionable.
With a way to purify water you have more water resupply options and can carry less.
A lot would depend on the trail sources and the hikers willingness to take risk but it is far from certain on any hike that going without is the lightest option.
Peace
Hosaphone
01-24-2013, 13:22
A couple of good points. Unless water is very plentiful, I usually carry a couple of empty 1L Platys, and I could certainly leave one behind with this system. I know some hikers just hooked a large bottle to the input side of the filter, left it there, and drank directly from the filter all the time.
I've been playing with the idea of using a Platy Big Zip bladder, with the Sawyer as an inline filter... Just scoop and go - would be really nice. But I really like drinking from bottles because it's easier to see how much you have left, and you can do drink mixes without caring if the bottle gets gross after a few days. Or actually it sounds like you mean they just got a 1L soda bottle or something and drank right from it with the filter attached while walking... Now that's interesting...
I think it might be worth it to look at the "overall annoyance factor" of various strategies:
With Aqua Mira, you just scoop, put drops in, and go. However that's not the whole story. There is extra hassle in the morning when you need to pre-mix it. Not a major thing, but it's one more thing to keep track of. Still probably the easiest system to use.
If you just attach the squeeze to a 1L soda bottle or something and drink from that, you avoid hassle at the water source and you save time... But I imagine you greatly increase the hassle of drinking from the bottle. I mean, if you filter the water into a bottle at the source, you spend ~5 minutes doing something annoying. If you filter as you drink, you're being slowly annoyed over the course of however long it takes you to kill the bottle :p With a filter you also have to worry about keeping it from freezing, and need to backflush sometimes, so add a few more points to the "annoyance factor"...
You can save some weight by carrying less water with the filter, so maybe that helps balance out its higher annoyance factor. Then again, with AM you can just treat the water and gulp it down 30 minutes later, so really you are only saving that weight temporarily... Filter allows you drink from skankier water sources, but that's not really an issue on the AT like it would be for desert hiking.
I think it's hard to say one method is "better" than the other. As with most things, it comes down to personal preference, where you're hiking, and your hiking style.
Here are the results that I have confirmed using a scientifically calibrated scale (from Wal-Mart):
Ok, but I'm unlikely to go thru the process of blowing air through my filter every time I stop for water. I'll shake it a few times, and when I do that, mine weighs 95g/3.35 ozs. The Sawyer Squeeze bag weighs 27g vs 35 for my platy, so I can leave one platy behind for an 8g saving. If I pack the syringe, my whole water system (Filter, Squeeze bag, Platy & syringe) weighs 190g/6.70oz.
My Aquamira system includes the two bottles at 84g (Full, w/o mixing cap), my premix btl at 7g, and two platys at 35g ea, for 161g/5.68. only about an ounce less ...
If I put the 33g/1.16oz syringe in a bounce box, the total Sawyer system is cut down to 157g/5.54oz. and wins the total weight game for me. But I'm unlikely to go 5-6 days without the ability to effectively back flush.
Odd Man Out
01-26-2013, 18:44
From the pictures I've seen of the SS it looks like it comes with a 50 mL syringe. I wonder if you could use a smaller syringe if you really felt the need to carry it with you. Syringes come in 1 mL, 5 mL, 10 mL, 20 mL sizes... I bet you don't need 50 mL. Even if you needed to flush more, just fill it multiple times. It wouldn't really be much bother since you are not likely going to be backflushing very often anyway.
Late last season I began to see a lot of folks packing the Sawyer squeeze system and liked it's simplicity. When I saw it advertised as a 3oz field weight, I thought it was a no-brainer considering my Aquamira system weighs that much. I questioned just what Sawyer means by field weight, questioned the accuracy of my scale, ordered standard weights, found my scale is accurate, and fought the impulse of throwing the damn filter in the trash. That's another post
In the other thread you said you used the filter before weighing it. You weighed the water trapped inside it as well.
I can see how you'd think field weight should include any trapped water though. I'm ambivalent about this.
In the other thread you said you used the filter before weighing it. You weighed the water trapped inside it as well.
Well, I weighed the whole package before I used it, but I never got a new/unused/dry weight of the filter alone. I've heard that is 2.5. The Ace above says it's 3.3.
I can see how you'd think field weight should include any trapped water though. I'm ambivalent about this.
I think the weight that will be on my back includes the total amount of stuff I carry to make a system work. That probably includes water weight left after one shakes out whatever water comes out easily, as well as whatever squeeze bags, back-flush accys, etc one thinks they need for the hike one is going to engage in.
What got my dander up, was that Sawyer claims a 3 oz field weight, and I have no idea what they mean by that. But it shirley ain't filter, squeeze bag and hypo... Regardless of whether the filter is dry or damp.
In the end, I'm convinced that what I consider to be *my* total field weight, for hiking the AT, will only be an ounce or so more than what I currently carry in my aquamira-based system on the AT.
MuddyWaters
01-27-2013, 00:35
I have a Sawyer, never use it.
I use AM pretty much exclusively.
One weeks worth of AM repackaged into small droppers, with premix bottle, in a tiny ziplock weighs 1.25 oz.
And thats if use it at reccommended dosage. Want to wait longer, use less.
Two 1-L "eco" water bottles weighs 1.55 oz
Total weight of 2.75 oz
Avg wt would be less
Filters work on clean , clear water. Period. Water that likely needs no treatment anyway.
How fast is the filter when it plugs and needs backflushing?
The only advantage of filters, is they remove crypto, which treatment time-conc is too large for AM to treat except overnight.
However this is not a frequent problem.
And giving you pristine looking water to drink. That may be more appealing than tinted or stained water for sure.
But once you get used to drinking whatever you got, you just do it and dont worry about it.
Giardia is reduced 1000 fold in about 3 minutes. Bacteria like ecoli in 1 minute. With prescribed levels, and this is even conservative.
EPA has published time-conc treatment protocol for ClO2. Its available for anyone to see. Look it up.
Unless drinking from a cesspool, its doubtful you need 10^-6 reduction.
We know that in most cases on the AT, you actually dont need anything at all.
Arguements about carrying extra wt, blah blah blah are dubious. Most take short breaks at the water sources anyway.
Especially people with filters, because they usually have the heaviest packs.
Even carrying 1L for 15min, a couple times a day, as claimed, is less total work overall than carrying 5oz additional wt all day every day. So that arguement is false as well.
But if it makes someone feel as if they are justifying carrying 1/4 lb + of filter to claim that, so be it.
Chlorine Dioxide has a half life of only about 90 minutes so it's effectiveness plummets if premixed for use ahead of time.
MuddyWaters
01-27-2013, 04:04
Chlorine Dioxide has a half life of only about 90 minutes so it's effectiveness plummets if premixed for use ahead of time.
In dilute solutions it is stable in closed containers and absence of light.
Premixing works because it is kept in a small sealed 3ml opaque vial.
It easily retains deep yellow color for 24hrs kept this way.
colorado_rob
01-27-2013, 09:43
Since I am at home goofing off today, I decided to conduct a scientific experiment in order to determine how water remaining inside of the Sawyer Squeeze affects weight. Some have said that for comparison purposes, the weight of the remaining water in the filter makes a significant weight difference. Here are the results that I have confirmed using a scientifically calibrated scale (from Wal-Mart):
1) The unused Sawyer filter weights 3.3 ounces.
2) Immediately after filtering one liter of water, the filter weighs 4.2 ounces.
3) After reattaching the empty one litter bag to the dirty end of the filter and squeezing air from the bag through the filter, the filter weighs 3.5 ounces.
4) After holding the filter in my hand and slinging the filter around over my head ten times, the filter weighs 3.4 ounces.
5) After holding the filter in my hand and slinging the filter around over my head ten times while yelling AIYEEEE, the filter weighs 3.4 ounces.
6) The one liter Sawyer bag (the old version) weighs 0.8 ounces when dry versus 0.9 when wet.
Conclusions:
1) The weight of the remaining water in the Sawyer filter after slinging ten times is insignificant.
2) Yelling AIYEEEE does not affect the weight of the remaining water in the Sawyer filter.
3) Maintaining a reasonably firm grasp of the filter while slinging it over your head is necessary if you plan on locating the filter for future use. Perfectly said, and 100% accurate!
In dilute solutions it is stable in closed containers and absence of light.
Premixing works because it is kept in a small sealed 3ml opaque vial.
It easily retains deep yellow color for 24hrs kept this way.
The manufacturer says: The two solutions must be mixed at the time of use. The ClO2 solution that is created by mixing the two liquids is not stable over long periods of time and will not be effective if mixed in advance of your trip.
I don't doubt the small, sealed, opaque bottles slow the deterioration, but to be truthful I have no idea by how much. It seems that if by this premix theory it must be discarded after 24 hours that the premix is deteriorating and fairly rapidly at that.
I carry as much Aqua Mira as I think I need for the whole trip, so personally I will wait to mix it until I need it. Just my opinion but I think it's a good default policy.
The manufacturer says: The two solutions must be mixed at the time of use. The ClO2 solution that is created by mixing the two liquids is not stable over long periods of time and will not be effective if mixed in advance of your trip.
I don't doubt the small, sealed, opaque bottles slow the deterioration, but to be truthful I have no idea by how much. It seems that if by this premix theory it must be discarded after 24 hours that the premix is deteriorating and fairly rapidly at that.
I carry as much Aqua Mira as I think I need for the whole trip, so personally I will wait to mix it until I need it. Just my opinion but I think it's a good default policy.
The process I use is to mix what I need for one day. That way, when I get to a water source I can fill my bottle, add the appropriate number of drops, and hike on. If there's any premix left in the bottle the next morning, I dump it out and make a fresh batch. On long distance hikes, I carry full bottles of parts A&B and the little premix bottle.
MuddyWaters
01-27-2013, 17:54
The manufacturer says: The two solutions must be mixed at the time of use. The ClO2 solution that is created by mixing the two liquids is not stable over long periods of time and will not be effective if mixed in advance of your trip.
I don't doubt the small, sealed, opaque bottles slow the deterioration, but to be truthful I have no idea by how much. It seems that if by this premix theory it must be discarded after 24 hours that the premix is deteriorating and fairly rapidly at that.
I carry as much Aqua Mira as I think I need for the whole trip, so personally I will wait to mix it until I need it. Just my opinion but I think it's a good default policy.
Nothing wrong with doing it per directions.
The mfg only supplies a little cup to mix in, and the ClO2 will be lost due to vaporization and breakdown from UV in an open container.
The mfg also cannot reccomend anything beyond the boundaries of their control.
There is enough uncertainty with the mixing process and resulting concentration from mixing drops anyway, that is one reason why the drops are not certified as a water purifier, and the tablets are.
I do like Ldog, one days supply basically (~12 hrs) and throw out any thats left, and do it again the next morning.
Premixing just saves a few min 2 or 3 times a day, and is more convenient when fillinig up.
I can attest that if you leave it in the premix bottle for 3 weeks, it comes out clear, ie little ClO2 left.
onecamper
01-27-2013, 18:33
I like the Sawyer. I don't use the squeeze but the three in one version. Basically, just the hollow core filter and a couple very short lengths of hose. Also, I carry a 4 or 6 ltr platy and always drink from 1 liter bottles. Probably much heavier than what some of you carry but often outfits two people. You can use the top on the platy bag, screw it on the water bottle and backflush the filter that way by squeezing the bottle. You just have to clean the top of your bottle in boiling water to be safe afterward tho I can't remember doing more than rinsing it off with filtered water. Hey, HYOH and I'm not trying to sell you the thing, I have just found it to be a vast improvement over the pump I used for years. And..you can simply dip the six liter bag and filter while you walk if you're in a hurry.
onecamper
01-27-2013, 18:42
I'd also add that I have been able to use the Sawyer on some very silty water, water that would have clogged my pump in fairly short order. It clogged the Sawyer before I could filter 3 ltr but I backflushed it and kept right on going, still have the same one.
Del Q here..............closing in on my 1000th post so being selective
Weird huh?
To me this is about TIME, the 30 minutes + for Aqua Mira to work.
When I am thirsty and get to a water supply, I want to drink..................then not in a half an hour!
I have gotten a lot better about not carrying too much food or water, which means I try to arrive at water supplies EMPTY
Which means that I am EMPTY
Which means that Del Q is friggin THIRSTY..............NOT IN 30 MINUTES, NOW!
Q wants HYDRATION NOW................
I think that the Sawyer Squeeze is great....................
evan_rolltide
02-07-2013, 00:52
Do you have to use the syringe to backflush ?
bear bag hanger
02-07-2013, 01:57
I got a Sawyer filter and have been experimenting with it at home. I find it gets hard to push water thru it after only 4 or 5 liters. Then I have to back flush it. The problem is this is using tap water out of my kitchen faucet. I don't see how this is going to work on the trail. I'll probably go back to my MIOX thing, but they apparently stopped making them, so not sure what I'm going to do when it gets too old to work.
Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2