Best cold weather/winter alcohol stove

[surfnturk]

What is considered the best, most efficient alcohol stove for cold weather? I plan on a 5-6 day hike from Springer sometime in febuary.
Thanks

[Monkeywrench]

Alcohol is the wrong fuel for cold weather. If it's cold enough you can snuff out matches in alcohol. Try a white gas stove.

[Rifleman]

What is considered the best, most efficient alcohol stove for cold weather? I plan on a 5-6 day hike from Springer sometime in febuary.
Thanks
I have had and used my mini-Trangia for many years now and am very happy with it.
The Trangia alcohol stove works very well in northern Europe (made and used in Sweden and other cold climes). Stick both stove and butane lighter in your jacket pocket (or sleep with them in you sleeping bag) a few minutes before you want to light the stove and both will work quite well.

[Another Kevin]

Alcohol isn't a great choice for winter. If you must use alcohol, try a Penny Stove (http://www.jureystudio.com/pennystove/penny2.html), with a priming pan in place so that (1) the stove is elevated, (2) you can prime it, because it's not self-priming in a Northern winter. (Its designer is a Californian with a different idea from mine of what constitutes "winter".) The priming pan instructions are on the original Penny Stove page (http://www.jureystudio.com/pennystove/stoveinstruct.html), but you can't get the Heineken keg-cans to make the original any more. And keep the fuel bottle inside your jacket. If you do both of those, the Penny works adequately, but not terrifically. If it's being really cantankerous, try a wisp of toilet paper in the top dish and another in the priming pan to serve as wicks for lighting it.

A Trangia can also work well if you figure out a way to keep the base of the stove insulated from the cold ground.

If you're melting snow for water, you really need a naphtha-fueled stove. The Svea 123R and the MSR WhisperLite are perennial favourites.

[russb]

I have used a number of alcohol stoves in the winter. The "best" most efficient one at the extreme temps is the Zelph designed Fancee Feest stove. I have used it at MINUS 22*F, without doing anything special with the stove or fuel. The alcohol was sitting out all night too.

[CarlZ993]

I have used a number of alcohol stoves in the winter. The "best" most efficient one at the extreme temps is the Zelph designed Fancee Feest stove. I have used it at MINUS 22*F, without doing anything special with the stove or fuel. The alcohol was sitting out all night too.
Wow! That's impressive. I picked one up a few weeks back. I hope I don't have to test your statement on the trail.

[Franco]

At this point usually someone will post that mushers use alcohol to heat the food for their dogs.And they do except that those are huge stoves and weight is not all that important however reliability is (no fiddling with fuel lines and all of that)
Generally alcohol is not such a good choice in below freezing temps because you need more than twice twice as much in weight as you do for naphtha (white gas /Coleman fuel) and it is a lot slower
but providing that you do keep the bottom of the burner insulated (some use a piece of plywood (composite/engineered wood)) it will light up and stay alight.
Down to around 20f canister stoves are easy enough , much below that I would also suggest Coleman fuel stoves particularly if melting snow.
(have a 1.3l better still 1.5/2 L pot and a good windscreen)
You really need to practice with all of these stoves first , particularly the white gas types (know how to take them apart and clean)
BTW, an easy way to light alcohol below freezing is to have some cotton impregnated with petroleum jelly (Vaseline) pick a strand from it put half in the fuel and the other half sticking out , light the bit sticking out.
That will warm up and light the fuel inside the stove.

[Slo-go'en]

The best results are obtained by insulating the stove from the ground and air.

I made a combo pot stand and stove holder from a slightly larger tin can. The stove is set into some fiberglass insulation inside the tin can. 1/4 inch holes are drilled all around the top of the can to let the stove flames out, along with a few large holes lower down to let air in.

To light, simply spill some alcohol on the fiberglass and light. I just tested it to -2F tonight as shown below:
19225

[surfnturk]

Thanks for tips and to everyone who actually answered my question. I dont plan on melting snow so not a factor, and I'm not a thru hiker so weight isn't as important. I have a Zelphs Starlite and cabbage head stove and they work well at 31-33 degrees. I'll try the fancee feast next.

[swjohnsey]

Zelphs Super Venon also works O.K. in sub-freezing temps.

[staehpj1]

Generally alcohol is not such a good choice in below freezing temps because you need more than twice twice as much in weight as you do for naphtha (white gas /Coleman fuel)

Just to clarify, which combined fuel/stove is heavier is dependent on the length of the trip and how much fuel you are consuming. With short trips (or frequent restocking) and low consumption alcohol can be a lot lighter. Longer time between restocking and higher consumption favors coleman fuel or canisters. If melting snow for water alcohol pretty quickly becomes heavier.

[Franco]

BTW, I use a Caldera Cone burning alcohol except for in winter on snow....

[QiWiz]

BTW, I use a Caldera Cone burning alcohol except for in winter on snow....

I have used alcohol stoves including Caldera Cones in winter, in snow, down to 5 below with no trouble. To light the stove, it will help if stove and fuel are warmed in your pocket, OR you use a priming pan OR priming fiberglass wick OR dip a twig in alcohol, light the twig, and hold burning twig in or near stove to warm the fuel and stove enough to get it going, OR use a burning cotton ball with vaseline dab in it next to stove to get it going.

On snow, place some fairly straight twigs that are 1.5-2 feet long down to serve as a base for the cone and stove. A stove "snowshoe" if you will. The whole thing will sink an inch or two as you are cooking, but it will work fine.

[dla]

Yellow bottle HEET works best for me. And I prefer to use a Trangia burner in the cold, mainly because it is fiddle-free and holds an abundance of fuel. I've also used a Whitebox stove, and it works, but it does require a little more fiddling. I really don't like to fiddle when it is cold. I've been using a chunk of silicone pot holder for an insulator - seems to work pretty good although I would prefer something more rigid for on-snow use. I just boil water for freezer-bag cooking and coffee.

If you are needing to melt snow for drinking water then I would suggest you use a white-gas stove.

[cabbagehead]

In general you just need to put insulation between the stove and the ground. This could be done with twigs or an empty, upside down cat food can.

[Wise Old Owl]

Alcohol is the wrong fuel for cold weather. If it's cold enough you can snuff out matches in alcohol. Try a white gas stove.

Well that statement appears really off. - I wish I could find a picture of the 50 cases of Heet used in the Iditarod to heat 3 gallons of snow for water and heat dog and human food in Alaska. There are few "absolutes" in Backpacking.

[surfnturk]

Apparently many think that when you ask a specific question you don't have any experience at all with stoves, etc. I've used alcohol stoves in very cold weather, just wanted to know what is considered the most efficient. I'm a camper, sometimes hiker, lifetime outdoorsman. If I wanted a white gas stove, guess what, I'd get one. Fact is, I dont.
Once again, thanks for all the info and tips.

[Franco]

OK, I was a bit premature with my post N7 but I knew that I could count on someone making that comments.

[Franco]

Since the point is not obvious to the wise one, the often repeated comment "alcohol stoves don't work in winter" is just a convenient shortcut to "yes you can use an alcohol stove in winter, however be prepared to fill your puny backpacking stove two or three times just to melt a couple of liters of water. That will take you the best part of an hour and of course you should wait between refills (just to give your stove time to cool down while the pot is also cooling down...) or use two burners.After you do that for a few meals you will beg for some hot water from your mate that is using white gas"But of course most don't bother with the long explanation...


The Iditarod burners are big multi gallon drums that burn one or two (usually two ) bottles of Heet at a time.
That is 24 oz of fuel at a time...
Neither the size of the burner nor the quantity of fuel used is relevant to this discussion.

19280

[surfnturk]

I think that on this site it is assumed that you are a thru hiker and that you will be melting snow. Neither applies to me. 5-6 days out for me. If it snows, i dont care, I'll have water with me. Weight for me is considered but not near as important as to a thru hiker or someone hiking in snow regularly. If water becomes an issue, I go home. Fact is, i dont want to deal with the mechanics of a canister or white gas stove. I like the simplicity of an alcohol stove. I use white gas stove when I car camp with the wife and that enough.

[russb]

I must be getting old and my memory is really starting to fail me. I can recall numerous trips in subzero F weather where I used my alcohol stove and not once begged for water from my mate who had a white gas stove. In fact, I can recall a specific trip in which he had to borrow my stove as his white gas stove crapped out. (Something to do with a gasket?) Some think that all winter trips require melting of snow for water as well. Fast moving streams are readily available in many areas for water which is a good thing since often even in the winter there is no snow to melt for water. The description in the above post doesn't match my experience in the cold winters of Northern NY with an alcohol stove... not in the least bit.

[Franco]

keep in mind that I already mentioned that I have used alcohool stoves in winter,below freesing, BUT my (and most other's) comments were focused on warning that IF you do need to melt snow THEN...
Details sometime are important.
Anyway this is the famous pile of Heet :
19283
From that photo some will see only "it can be done " others "It can be done IF..."

[JansportD2]

I've been using a Sgt. Rock Ion stove made from his plans for the past two years. I attached a priming pan and, in cold weather, it needs a little more priming. It's very efficient - can boil 2 cups of water with 1/2 oz. of fuel in the summer - slightly more in the winter.

I've always found flowing water when winter camping on the AT. I camp near water and make sure to empty my water bottles before I go to sleep. It takes a lot of energy to thaw out frozen solid water bottles. If they freeze during the day, I stick them in a spring when I stop for the day.

[surfnturk]

I think most of these people saying you've got to use white gas and acohol stoves dont work have been sold a bill of goods. Mostly what they've heard, not experienced.

[surfnturk]

Question to Franco. This is a long shot, but do you know Kiwi White or the late Keith Paul?

[Another Kevin]

OK, the original poster chimed in that he has experience with both kinds of stove, and is specifically asking about alcohol stove efficiency. While I'm in favor of naphtha in the winter, I have used alcohol in quite cold weather.

For my 1.6 litre pot, the Penny Stove seems to be quite efficient. It's self priming down into the low 30's F, and still primes pretty fast with a few drops of fuel in a priming pan down to -- let's see, I've used it to make soup and tea on a day trip at about 8 F. It's hard to blow out, but it's considerably more efficient with a windscreen, so I carry one anyway (made from a tinfoil cookie sheet). It'll melt snow, but I don't want to depend on it for that, because snow melting over alcohol is slow, and a Whisperlite or Svea is a lot faster. But it's my "go to" stove if I'm confident that I can find water that isn't frozen.

I find that it's considerably more efficient than the Cat Stove for my rig. If I were cooking in a Fosters can or a titanium mug, I'd probably want something that directs the flame over a smaller area, I suspect the Penny would have a lot of wasted heat.

A 250-ml bottle of denatured alcohol lasts me for a 3-day clueless weekend, with a boil or two in reserve. And I use it quite profligately: oatmeal and coffee for breakfast, something hot for dinner, and maybe even a cup of tea at some time during the day.I use considerably less than twice that amount of fuel when cooking for two.

The Photon stove is about as efficient as the Penny with my rig, but it's harder to fill and harder to prime. The Trangia performs about as well, also. The Trangia has a weight penalty, but it's nice being able to snuff it and throttle it. Not nice enough for me to use one, but I have one buddy who swears by his.

I've never got quite the same performance out of a stove that doesn't have pressurized jets, but my pot is fairly wide-bottomed, so spreading the flame helps. Still, pressurized jets are harder to blow out and perform better in a breeze.

But - test with your pot, stand and windscreen. Because matching the flame to the pot is the key to efficiency.

[oroy38]

If you don't expect to encounter temperatures below 15*F, then you can still use an alcohol stove with a little extra effort depending on what kind of stove you have. I use a Vargo Titanium Triad XE stove, and all I have to do between 15*-25*F is stick my fuel bottle and stove in my jacket while I set up camp so that they both warm up a little bit. After that, you shouldn't have a problem getting the alcohol lit so long as you don't waste too much time. Just fill, prime, and light, and you'll be good to go. If it's cold enough that you decide not to use alcohol, you can use fuel tabs in it too, so it's a nice stove in a lightweight package that gets the job done. Just be sure you have a good way to block wind, otherwise you'll have a hell of a time. I don't have any experience with this stove below 15*F so I can't comment on that.

Here's a link.
http://www.vargooutdoors.com/Titanium-Triad-XE-Alcohol-Fuel-Tab-Stove

[ferdinand the bull]

The Soto Od 1r has a miro regulator that is pretty solid but I'd go with a Ti Alcohol Stove. It can be hard finding fuel sometimes on the trail where alcohol is available no matter where you're hiking.

[Bucho]

So here's the thing about alcohol: " The National Fire Protection Association has assigned a flammability rating of 3 (severe fire hazard) to isopropyl alcohol.

Flash point: 12 degrees C (53 degrees F) (closed cup)" http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/healthguidelines/isopropylalcohol/recognition.html Gas or alcohol it's only the fumes that burn. If you drop a match into a bucket of rubbing alcohol at less than 53 degrees nothing will happen except that the match will go out, the liquid is staying a liquid below that temp and not producing the fumes you need. Ethanol requires an even higher temperature whereas gas has a flash point of -54 degrees. So gas is a vastly better fuel to use for winter camping especially since you'll be pressurizing it. But you can get alcohol stoves to work in the winter if you're able to sufficiently insulate the stove from the wind and the cold.

[Another Kevin]

The process of priming an alcohol stove is precisely that of heating the alcohol inside it to at least its flash point. You're using your match or lighter to heat the small amount of fuel in the priming pan to flash point. The priming fuel is heating more of the main fuel supply to flash point. Once the main fuel supply gets to flash temperature and starts making significant amounts of vapour, the stove "blossoms" and you're cooking.

That's why it helps also to use a wick with the priming pan - drop in the match, or use a wisp of toilet paper or something. It makes for a small amount of fuel that has to flash over at a time.