Has anyone heard from the Rifle man.

[canoe]

I am sure he ran into some very nasty weather. Has anyone heard from him lately?

[Slo-go'en]

From his TJ, he said he was about to enter the Smokies a week ago, which is when the artic weather hit. Wasn't there also a good storm in those parts as the cold front came through? Hopefully he's hold up some where waiting for it to warm up again. If he doesn't up date within another week or so, then it's time to start to worry. When did 442 wash out?

[Northern Lights]

I`ve been watching his journal as well with no updates, hopefully we hear something soon.

[mtntopper]

where is his journal?

[Karma13]

where is his journal?

http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?trailname=14325

No updates. Just sticking the link there for mtntopper.

[urbansix]

I was hiking Stecoah Gap to Fontana last weekend (1/19-20) and a "Rifle" had signed the registers about ~1 day ahead of me. Saw his sig at Brown Fork and Fontana

Edit - I guess that jives with his last journal entry and above posts.

[rocketsocks]

Last I heard, he was carving each of the 62 names listed in the graffiti thread in towns along the way, probably just stopped for a new knife.:Dhope your doing well rifle. G speed

[treesloth]

Oh, rocketsocks. You're on a roll today. But don't quit that day job just yet. :)

[rocketsocks]

Oh, rocketsocks. You're on a roll today. But don't quit that day job just yet. :)Ain't working right now:eek:

[treesloth]

Whoops. Wishing you gainful employment soon then.

[Frog]

On his last entry on TJ he said he would update next time he has internet. Since it has only been 8 days I would not worry as the pace in winter is slow due to not as much day light. Not sure where his next resupply is but we will probably be updated in Hot Springs.

[moldy]

Very early starters tend to disappear on us. Not that anything happens to them. As an avid TJ folllower, I notice that the earlier you start the less the odds of finishing. The reality of 2200 miles combined with Winter trail life takes that early enthusiasm away. The lady who started early last year on TJ did very well and made it somewhere near half way. It was a very mild Winter and warm early Spring. It is so hard to keep your nose to the grindstone for very long in cold conditions. Money can be a real issue for some. Hiking in a bad Winter drains away funds as you are forced to hide out in towns. I hope Rifle makes it all the way to Maine. He would if he would just go home for about 2 months then pick up the trail where he left it.

[Rasty]

Rifle was getting into Standing Bear on Thursday afternoon. Curtis shuttled me that morning.

[10-K]

Rifle was getting into Standing Bear on Thursday afternoon. Curtis shuttled me that morning.

It's a long drive from Wilmington to the AT isn't it....? I always enjoyed getting to Spartanburg because I could see mountains on the horizon.

Ever consider moving this way? For me it was a magnetic pull I just couldn't resist.

[rocketsocks]

Granted it is winter, but just heard there calling for some more bad weather in the middle of the week stretching from North Western Georgia up through Virginia.

[Rasty]

Rifle was getting into Standing Bear on Thursday afternoon. Curtis shuttled me that morning.

It's a long drive from Wilmington to the AT isn't it....? I always enjoyed getting to Spartanburg because I could see mountains on the horizon.

Ever consider moving this way? For me it was a magnetic pull I just couldn't resist.

I'm hoping to get a transfer in the next couple of years to someplace with mountains.

[Train Wreck]

I'm hoping to get a transfer in the next couple of years to someplace with mountains.

We can help you with that! :D

http://denver.craigslist.org/fbh/3574114276.html

[rocketsocks]

I'm hoping to get a transfer in the next couple of years to someplace with mountains.Maybe New Zealand?

[rocketsocks]

Whoops. Wishing you gainful employment soon then.Nooooo, Whyyyyyy!;)

[bennett254]

I just spoke to dispatch and the backcountry office in GSMNP. They're looking into it. Anyone know his real name?

[WingedMonkey]

I just spoke to dispatch and the backcountry office in GSMNP. They're looking into it. Anyone know his real name?

Looking into what?

[Northern Lights]

I just spoke to dispatch and the backcountry office in GSMNP. They're looking into it. Anyone know his real name?

Rasty said Rifle was coming into Standing Bear on Thursday. I don't think he is in the Smokies at this point. Just hasn't had internet access and most likely won't until he hits Hot Springs which should be shortly. Even if he zeroed at SB

[Lugnut]

Standing Bear has Internet service.

[Sly]

I am sure he ran into some very nasty weather. Has anyone heard from him lately?

What could be the problem, it's just walking. :rolleyes:

[bennett254]

Rasty said Rifle was coming into Standing Bear on Thursday. I don't think he is in the Smokies at this point. Just hasn't had internet access and most likely won't until he hits Hot Springs which should be shortly. Even if he zeroed at SB

That's not totally reassuring given the regularity and detail of his TJ entries and the fact that he's supposedly at a hostel. The conditions he walked into were epic. Wouldn't be surprised if it was below 0 as it was in the teens in avl. There was a bad ice storm too. I would just like to hear from the man himself. Don't worry: It's not like they're mobilizing helicopters or anything. They were just gonna check the permits and keep their eyes open on their rounds.

[Northern Lights]

Just call Standing Bear and see if indeed he made it through to their place.

[canoe]

THanks guys. Weather has been really tough. WOuld like to hear from him.

[bennett254]

Standing Bear's internet is down. He's fine.

[Rasty]

He arrived at Standing Bear. He was out of the Smokies before the ice storm. I was the only idiot getting frozen that I saw.

[Camel2012]

Thanks for the update Rasty.

[canoe]

Thanks Bennett and Rasty for the info. Good news for sure!!!

[max patch]

I just spoke to dispatch and the backcountry office in GSMNP. They're looking into it. Anyone know his real name?

You have got to be kidding me.

Someone doesn't update their online journal for a few days so a call is made to the rangers??!!

Pathetic.

[Sly]

You have got to be kidding me.

Someone doesn't update their online journal for a few days so a call is made to the rangers??!!

Pathetic.

From what I understand the person that makes the call which initiates a search is liable for any costs. I'd be mildly amused but peeved if a stranger took it upon themselves to check on my condition when for all they know I'm partying in Asheville, or another trail town.

[Northern Lights]

You have got to be kidding me.

Someone doesn't update their online journal for a few days so a call is made to the rangers??!!

Pathetic.

aww come on, he was worried about him. And it made more sense to involve Rangers and use their resources than to call where someone had last seen him and make inquiries. ;) Common sense is foreign to some folks unfortunately.

[Sly]

aww come on, he was worried about him. And it made more sense to involve Rangers and use their resources than to call where someone had last seen him and make inquiries. ;)

No doubt. I'm sure the SAR guys would prefer being torn away from their families to risk their lives, and brave the ice and snow, looking for someone that was sitting comfortably in front of a fire at Standing Bear.

[bennett254]

You have got to be kidding me.

Someone doesn't update their online journal for a few days so a call is made to the rangers??!!

Pathetic.

My best friend got trapped in a blizzard in Tuolumne meadows with a broken leg once. He had been updating his fb every couple of days. When he didn't post for 3 days several of us called the rangers. He was located and evacuated by helicopter. He would've died otherwise.

[bennett254]

From what I understand the person that makes the call which initiates a search is liable for any costs. I'd be mildly amused but peeved if a stranger took it upon themselves to check on my condition when for all they know I'm partying in Asheville, or another trail town.

I didn't initiate a search. I asked them to keep an eye out. His family would've had to report him missing to initiate a search. The person being rescued is liable for the rescue if they negligently contributed to the situation.

[saltysack]

I was dumb enough to head out at 7pm on Albert mountain loop Thursday night for a 12 mile to carter gap and had to walk in that nasty ice storm Friday back to standing Indian campground. 19 degrees windy as hell with no spikes....wet and cold!!!

[Malto]

I didn't initiate a search. I asked them to keep an eye out. His family would've had to report him missing to initiate a search. The person being rescued is liable for the rescue if they negligently contributed to the situation.

Phone calls shouldn't be made to anyone just because a journal isn't updated for a few days. By that criteria I would have had the entire west coast s&r looking for me on my thru hike. You had no clue what arrangements he made with family friend etc on the criteria that could mean trouble.

[max patch]

Rifle could have bagged the hike and have been in front of the flat screen eating chicken wings and drinking beer when the call was made to the park that he was missing. Every year people who keep journals end their hike and the journal entries just stop.

[Sandy of PA]

Even though his journal does not show that he had updated, if you click on it the updates are there!

[canoe]

Just read his journal. SOunds like the kid is having a blast...just walking in the frigid temps.

[Karma13]

Just saw a bunch of updates with pictures. He really is having a blast, isn't he. Good for him!

[MyName1sMud]

Good posts of his

[Adriana]

He just posted a bunch of updates today. He is having to leave the trail for 2 weeks due to frostbitten hands...His exhuberance has put him in some risky situations.

[Karma13]

Looks like some trouble. Frostbite, broken tent, and not enough money to finish (by quite a bit). I wish him a lot of luck (particularly with the hands!). Sounds like he's going to need it.

Also, he's got a math issue that he doesn't seem to be aware of. He says he's on a 12-mpd pace not counting zeroes, which (he says) is a 6-month pace. He'll have to reset after he heals (if he decides to get back on the trail), but at some point he's going to have to figure out that his miles per day average has to include his zeroes.

[10-K]

Sounds like a nice long winter section hike. Not a thing wrong with that.

[The Cleaner]

Yes to all of the above and some people are sending him money.Send mine via Pay Pal.......

[takethisbread]

this illustrates just how difficult a January 1 start is. He seems like a strong hiker,and was doing well for afew weeks when the weather was merely very cold, but it seems to have turned upon the latestbit of snow/extreme cold. This weather drains your spirit and your bank account quick.gear needs change rapidly. the guy hiked with frostnip for about a week, before finally succumbing to frostbite this weekend, i am sure and likely to see him back outon the trail in a ffew weeks to a month, when spring happens, and he will no doubt be successful.

[Karma13]

A nice section hike would be lovely! No doubt about it, and all respect to anybody who sets out on any multiday winter hike.

But in the context he established, Rifle is very publicly attempting a thru.


http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?89430-Anyone-else-starting-on-Jan-1st&highlight=
"I'm starting my first thru hike on January 1, 2013. Gonna be freezing, I know. Crazy? Maybe. But I'm going to do it, and I'm going to get to Maine."

Or maybe my irony meter hasn't had enough coffee yet. Perfectly possible. :)

[Malto]

This seems like a pretty typical story. Unprepared for what ended up being fairly typical winter conditions and insufficient finances. This journal should be required reading for all early season inexperienced hikers. Hope he heals up and gets the money to finish his hike.

[moldy]

Perhaps next year will be his year. He can schedule a later start. Odds on making it this year, I give him 1 in 50.

[Karma13]

Heck, if he gets the money sorted out, he's looking at a later start this year. I guess that's one advantage of an early start date: you can make two attempts in one calendar year!

[10-K]

I'm not a stingy person buy I wouldn't give someone who ran out before they were 25% finished - if ever .

Sounds like he was seriously underfunded from the get go.

A cautionary tale for the "can you thru for $1000-$2000" crowd.

[The Cleaner]

I'm not a stingy person buy I wouldn't give someone who ran out before they were 25% finished - if ever .

Sounds like he was seriously underfunded from the get go.

A cautionary tale for the "can you thru for $1000-$2000" crowd. Hey 10-K,Sounds like Rifle is in Erwin.Why don't you invite him over for a few weeks:eek:.......

[10-K]

I'm sure my wife would love that...

[Adriana]

I'm not a stingy person buy I wouldn't give someone who ran out before they were 25% finished - if ever .
In the interest of fairness, I'm not sure he has literally run out of funds 25% into the hike, my impression is that he has incurred some unplanned for expenses and will run short later in the hike.

[10-K]

Is he actively soliciting donations or is the fundraising a grassroots support effort?

[Rasty]

Is he actively soliciting donations or is the fundraising a grassroots support effort?

His journal said something about getting a job.

[10-K]

I do wish him well....

[Adriana]

Is he actively soliciting donations or is the fundraising a grassroots support effort?

No he is NOT soliciting donations but some have been offered.
" I don't have enough cash to complete this trip, so I will need to work my way through some of it. By my conservative estimate I'm about 600 bucks short. I know it's pretty common for thru hikers to work along the trail. Any ideas, tips or connections would be greatly appreciated. Please feel free to post any money making (preferably legal) suggestions on my guestbook."

[Blackbeard30]

I hope he gets better and gets back out on the trail soon.

[takethisbread]

Ugh. He lost me. Soliciting for donations. America gone wrong. Take responsibility for yourself. Thru hiking is absolutely a privilege that is earned. Some people save and plan for decades for the Chance! We see this far too often.

[Rasty]

Ugh. He lost me. Soliciting for donations. America gone wrong. Take responsibility for yourself. Thru hiking is absolutely a privilege that is earned. Some people save and plan for decades for the Chance! We see this far too often.

Where did he solicit donations?

[10-K]

I don't think he did.

I read that the cleaner made a PayPal donation and I just made an assumption.

I might have gave that impression and I apologize - I never said he was taking donations though - I did ask.

[Malto]

I haven't seen where he has asked for them but there are enough fools willing to give money to someone to take a vacation. I am glad the poverty, homelessness, hungry and warfare has ended and this is the most worthy cause out there for people to donate. Combine a sad story about someone being unprepared and getting in over their head with a religious angle and boom he has multiple people pledging hundreds of dollars. This is not a cut at all on Rifle, this is directed at the fools that enable people to go out and do stupid things.

[Coffee Rules!]

I haven't seen him asking for anything more than suggestions for ways to make money. If people want to offer to help him out, that's their business.

Not defending the guy, at least not overall. Just regarding the donations. Frankly I think he's a moron, having read his journal. I'm not even qualified to call myself a novice hiker but I can see the guy is doing a lot of plain stupid things. I hope like heck he wises up in his time off the trail to heal, and I hope we don't read about him becoming another...well you get the idea.

[mfleming]

Good luck to him

[The Cleaner]

I don't think he did.

I read that the cleaner made a PayPal donation and I just made an assumption.

I might have gave that impression and I apologize - I never said he was taking donations though - I did ask. I was being sarcastic and said "Send money to my Pay Pal account",sorry for the snafu.Anyway I think that those who sent money did so as a measure of help,I do not think Rifle ever ask for it.A while back someone sent me money to replace a shovel.Another WB member came to Greeneville and took me out to lunch for my volunteer efforts.Some really great folks are members here:sun

[10-K]

I'm waiting on the "I went to Jerry Cabin Shelter and all I got was this stupid t-shirt" shirts myself.... :)

[takethisbread]

Sounds like the cat has a family. If he needs money, maybe they should be the ones to give it. If you are having money problems in Erwin, it's not meant to be IMO . No shame in it. Hiking in January from Springer to Erwin is a helluva task. If you are having trouble affording this trip at his age, perhaps his priority should be earning not hiking. Maybe I'm just sour on it. His father is a pastor I think, maybe he could talk some sense into him, either way God bless him, hope he stays safe and finds a job or whatever, but this trip is a cautionary tail; poorly planned financially, gear wise, and weather wise.

[HikerMom58]

I haven't seen where he has asked for them but there are enough fools willing to give money to someone to take a vacation. I am glad the poverty, homelessness, hungry and warfare has ended and this is the most worthy cause out there for people to donate. Combine a sad story about someone being unprepared and getting in over their head with a religious angle and boom he has multiple people pledging hundreds of dollars. This is not a cut at all on Rifle, this is directed at the fools that enable people to go out and do stupid things.

gg-man.. I think you may be judging Rifle a lil harshly. He has a faith, that's true. I admire him for not hiding that fact and just putting it out there. He openly admitted that he's on a spiritual journey. He was brought up with a certain belief system and is questioning it all. Did you ever see his thread on here?
He's openly admitted he's a newbie on the trail. He's going to make mistakes. (maybe even stupid ones... it's OK) I feel like he's learning from his mistakes. I think he has loads of people praying for him and his safety, myself being one of those people.

As far as people giving him money for support, that's entirely up to them. It's their business. NO need to call them fools.....if they feel like he's on a soul searching journey & they can identify with him, in that journey, I can see that as motivation, for some, to give him support. No prob.....

I didn't read in his journal, at all, that he was looking for donations or hand outs. Where do people get this stuff from? Amazing!!

gg-man- you're cool! I'm just politely disagreeing with your assumptions.

[The Cleaner]

I thought the "work your way up the AT" thing was a 70's thing.Not doable these days.There are people living in trail towns who need jobs:eek:......

[slow mind]

Boy some people just ain't happy unless their angry.

[10-K]

Put me in the happy column....

[Coffee Rules!]

**Puts 10-K in the happy column**

[Slo-go'en]

Well too bad, it was looking like he actually had a chance. Hope he doesn't loose any fingers, that can be devistating. I'd rather loose a toe then a finger.

[Malto]

gg-man.. I think you may be judging Rifle a lil harshly. He has a faith, that's true. I admire him for not hiding that fact and just putting it out there. He openly admitted that he's on a spiritual journey. He was brought up with a certain belief system and is questioning it all. Did you ever see his thread on here?
He's openly admitted he's a newbie on the trail. He's going to make mistakes. (maybe even stupid ones... it's OK) I feel like he's learning from his mistakes. I think he has loads of people praying for him and his safety, myself being one of those people.

As far as people giving him money for support, that's entirely up to them. It's their business. NO need to call them fools.....if they feel like he's on a soul searching journey & they can identify with him, in that journey, I can see that as motivation, for some, to give him support. No prob.....

I didn't read in his journal, at all, that he was looking for donations or hand outs. Where do people get this stuff from? Amazing!!

gg-man- you're cool! I'm just politely disagreeing with your assumptions.

Reread my post, it wasn't about rifle at all other than saying he was unprepared. That wasn't harsh, it was being mr obvious.

[HikerMom58]

Reread my post, it wasn't about rifle at all other than saying he was unprepared. That wasn't harsh, it was being mr obvious.

I understand what you are sayin but if Rifle wasn't sharing so much of himself, it wouldn't be up for review.

Here's where I'm coming from, here are the facts- He's a newbie that doesn't even pretend to be anything else. He's on a soul searching journey. He shares exactly what is going on with his hike, in every area of his hike- from his decision making processes, to how he is doing/thinking physically, spiritually and financially. He shares his thoughts & feelings, freely. Ok so, everyone can take that info- process it and make judgement calls, form opinions of him and offer help, in any form.
We are just talkin... I'm sharing my thoughts about your thoughts. I'm expressing my thoughts about your judgement calls. It seems like some have been made about Rifle himself and those that choose to "help" him. That's all I'm sayin... I'm cool with you. I'm just expressing how I feel. :) You have a right to express how you feel. I might not agree with you but it starts and ends right there. :)

[Kaptain Kangaroo]

I understand what you are sayin but if Rifle wasn't sharing so much of himself, it wouldn't be up for review.

Here's where I'm coming from, here are the facts- He's a newbie that doesn't even pretend to be anything else. He's on a soul searching journey. He shares exactly what is going on with his hike, in every area of his hike- from his decision making processes, to how he is doing/thinking physically, spiritually and financially. He shares his thoughts & feelings, freely. Ok so, everyone can take that info- process it and make judgement calls, form opinions of him and offer help, in any form.
We are just talkin... I'm sharing my thoughts about your thoughts. I'm expressing my thoughts about your judgement calls. It seems like some have been made about Rifle himself and those that choose to "help" him. That's all I'm sayin... I'm cool with you. I'm just expressing how I feel. :) You have a right to express how you feel. I might not agree with you but it starts and ends right there. :)

Nicely put !! And you highlight a good point about posting your thoughts & actions on the web. When you post anything here or on Trailjournals etc. you are telling the entire world about yourself, & almost by definition asking for comments from total strangers......... they may not always agree with you or think that you are the excellent person that you believe yourself to be........... Rifle is a good example... he does post a lot of what he is doing, thinking & feeling..... & has caught some criticism for some of this. But that is OK & if he doesn't like the responses he can stop doing it.

My own personal take on him from the words & photos he has posted are that he is a young guy with a rather large ego who will probably benefit from a thru-hike, especially if it doesn't go to plan.......... I'm not hoping that he fails, but if he does he may be a better person for it.........failure can sometimes be a better teacher than success.

[TheDuckOnTheJunebug]

The fellow asked for suggestions on where to find a job, and got insulted. In my book, it's lower to come down on someone looking to help himself than to solicit help.

[BirdBrain]

.........failure can sometimes be a better teacher than success.

Well that makes those that try a lot borderline know-it-alls. If you are not failing at something, you are either lying or not doing anything.

[mfleming]

Well said Ducky

[canoe]

I just read his journal. Sorry to hear he injured himself with frostbite. Hope its not too serious. He has had so terrible weather. Hope he heals quickly, able to get some coins in the bank during the process and is able to get back on the trail and finish this year. I am sure Rifle has had a great education already and will be better prepaired when he gets back on the trail again.

[The Cleaner]

The fellow asked for suggestions on where to find a job, and got insulted. In my book, it's lower to come down on someone looking to help himself than to solicit help. I thought this was a hiker forum,you might check the local newspaper for job listings:eek:.....Jeez, my hands got cold in windy 40 degree weather a few weeks ago.You can get hypothermia in July at high elevations.Hikers have died in recent months.All the info is here but you got to click on it to read it....

[Train Wreck]

I just read his journal. Sorry to hear he injured himself with frostbite. Hope its not too serious. He has had so terrible weather. Hope he heals quickly, able to get some coins in the bank during the process and is able to get back on the trail and finish this year. I am sure Rifle has had a great education already and will be better prepaired when he gets back on the trail again.

Canoe -Good post. I'm so tired of people beating up on this kid ever since the graffiti thing. He's learned some tough lessons already, but he's kept a good attitude and a sense of humility through his mistakes and misadventures. None of us is perfect and we've all made mistakes. I know I've done a few stupid things, at least, in over 20 years of paddling, hiking, and skiing.

Even after the bad start on WB, he asks for advice, tips, etc. on how to fund his hike from the "old pro's" whom I guess he still respects, though I'm starting to wonder why. Advice, NOT donations.

I wish him well and hope he is back on the trail again soon.

[Coffee Rules!]

over 20 years of paddling

Wow. You must have been REALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLY bad.

[kayak karl]

I thought the "work your way up the AT" thing was a 70's thing.Not doable these days.There are people living in trail towns who need jobs:eek:...... i've been offered work in trail towns. even been offered work on short trips, but in all cases i was on vacation.

[Train Wreck]

Wow. You must have been REALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLY bad.

I had a choice between capital punishment or corporal punishment!

[Coffee Rules!]

I had a choice between capital punishment or corporal punishment!

It Would Be Really Tough To Spend Twenty Years Capitalizing Everything. I Think I'd Take Corporal Punishment Also.

[Arius]

"..I am honored that some of you want to send me money. I truly don't deserve it, and I am humbled by your generosity. While I am by no means asking for money, I do want to offer those who want to bless me the chance to do so. I've set up my paypal account with a new email solely for this purpose. Anyone wishing to help support me can do so via Paypal.com to [email protected] I've said from the very beginning, I will finish this journey. I have committed to myself and to God to do whatever it takes. And now with so much support and investment from so many generous people my motivation is even greater. I can't wait to get back out there and keep moving forward! Thanks for the support!"

Really? :confused:

[Slo-go'en]

"..Really? :confused:

Really. I read his guest book and a number of people did offer to send him funds, which he was not asking for. If someone offers to give me food or money, I wouldn't turn it down. What the heck, eh?

I was a bit sceptical about this guy at first, but I now have some respect for him. Seeing pictures of what he had to walk through, its pretty amazing he got as far as he did. With a little rest and better weather, he's got a real chance of completing the journey.

[Train Wreck]

Really. I read his guest book and a number of people did offer to send him funds, which he was not asking for. If someone offers to give me food or money, I wouldn't turn it down. What the heck, eh?



Exactly. People offered to send funds first, asked him for paypal or contact information, and he accepted. No big deal.

[Arius]

...I was a bit sceptical about this guy at first, but I now have some respect for him.

When I've met him on 01/01/13 at Gooch, I thought: what a nice and determined guy he is. When he carved his trail name and defaced the new-built shelter, I lost my respect. Then he started asked for money from the hikers community. It is not right.

"... I do not need to defend myself. This trip is about me finding God's purpose for my life. If you want to hate me, then hate me. But I will not hate you in return."

I do not hate. It is just a sad, sad, sad story about young and strong guy, who graduated, by his words, university and can't find his place on the trail (in the life?) and doing things that are inconceivable for a healthy mind.

[Arius]

Sorry, on 01/02/13 at Gooch.

[ChinMusic]

For crying out loud, get off the kid's back..............

[canoe]

Arius, you not getting enough attention. Get over it and get over yourself

[Train Wreck]

When I've met him on 01/01/13 at Gooch, I thought: what a nice and determined guy he is. When he carved his trail name and defaced the new-built shelter, I lost my respect. Then he started asked for money from the hikers community. It is not right.

"... I do not need to defend myself. This trip is about me finding God's purpose for my life. If you want to hate me, then hate me. But I will not hate you in return."

I do not hate. It is just a sad, sad, sad story about young and strong guy, who graduated, by his words, university and can't find his place on the trail (in the life?) and doing things that are inconceivable for a healthy mind.



Give us your paypal address and we'll be happy to donate a big bucket of Getoverit.

[Arius]

For crying out loud, get off the kid's back..............
BTW he is not a kid. He is 25 years old. I always leaving some change in the cups at the street :).

[Schooley]

Good Luck Rifle...I'm pulling for ya pal.

[Shutterbug]

gg-man.. I think you may be judging Rifle a lil harshly. He has a faith, that's true. I admire him for not hiding that fact and just putting it out there. He openly admitted that he's on a spiritual journey. He was brought up with a certain belief system and is questioning it all. Did you ever see his thread on here?
He's openly admitted he's a newbie on the trail. He's going to make mistakes. (maybe even stupid ones... it's OK) I feel like he's learning from his mistakes. I think he has loads of people praying for him and his safety, myself being one of those people.

As far as people giving him money for support, that's entirely up to them. It's their business. NO need to call them fools.....if they feel like he's on a soul searching journey & they can identify with him, in that journey, I can see that as motivation, for some, to give him support. No prob.....

I didn't read in his journal, at all, that he was looking for donations or hand outs. Where do people get this stuff from? Amazing!!

gg-man- you're cool! I'm just politely disagreeing with your assumptions.


I am one who sent Rifle some money. He didn't ask for it. In my opinion, he wasn't even hinting for donations. I have followed his journal since he started. From the beginning he has shared his concerns. Sharing his concern about money was consistent with his other posts. If sending him a few dollars helps him stay on the trail, it will be well worth the sacrifice on my part. I wish him well.

[Hosaphone]

When I've met him on 01/01/13 at Gooch, I thought: what a nice and determined guy he is. When he carved his trail name and defaced the new-built shelter, I lost my respect. Then he started asked for money from the hikers community. It is not right.

"... I do not need to defend myself. This trip is about me finding God's purpose for my life. If you want to hate me, then hate me. But I will not hate you in return."

I do not hate. It is just a sad, sad, sad story about young and strong guy, who graduated, by his words, university and can't find his place on the trail (in the life?) and doing things that are inconceivable for a healthy mind.

Crawl back under your bridge.

[Coffee Rules!]

BTW he is not a kid. He is 25 years old.

Yeah, that's a kid.

[gizzy bear]

"..I am honored that some of you want to send me money. I truly don't deserve it, and I am humbled by your generosity. While I am by no means asking for money, I do want to offer those who want to bless me the chance to do so. I've set up my paypal account with a new email solely for this purpose. Anyone wishing to help support me can do so via Paypal.com to [email protected] I've said from the very beginning, I will finish this journey. I have committed to myself and to God to do whatever it takes. And now with so much support and investment from so many generous people my motivation is even greater. I can't wait to get back out there and keep moving forward! Thanks for the support!"


Really? :confused:


i think if you are offended by rifle , then perhaps you should back off his journal AND this thread, to be honest... i think for the most part the people here , wish him well and hope that he gets to complete his dream .... he has made mistakes and owned up to them and he never solicited for $$... he was OFFERED monetary help and he accepted... that is night and day my friend... and i truly hope that YOU don't live in a glass house....


ps... rifle (if you see this ) i hope that your hands heal quickly!! best of luck!!

[Coffee Rules!]

i think if you are offended by rifle , then perhaps you should back off his journal AND this thread, to be honest...

Hear, hear!

[HikerMom58]

i think if you are offended by rifle , then perhaps you should back off his journal AND this thread, to be honest... i think for the most part the people here , wish him well and hope that he gets to complete his dream .... he has made mistakes and owned up to them and he never solicited for $$... he was OFFERED monetary help and he accepted... that is night and day my friend... and i truly hope that YOU don't live in a glass house....


ps... rifle (if you see this ) i hope that your hands heal quickly!! best of luck!!

Great post Gizzy... :) Rifle, if you see this, I will add to Gizzy's well wishes for your complete healing. I can't wait to meet you when you reach Daleville VA. I'm checking and reading your TJ often so I can see where you are!! I like the fact that you are choosing not to hate the haters. They need love just like we all do.. :0) Happy LOVE day, Rifle! :)

[ChinMusic]

Yes, Rifle, if you are reading this thread just know that the vast majority are wishing you well. Do not fret over a few.

[bfayer]

i think if you are offended by rifle , then perhaps you should back off his journal AND this thread, to be honest... i think for the most part the people here , wish him well and hope that he gets to complete his dream .... he has made mistakes and owned up to them and he never solicited for $$... he was OFFERED monetary help and he accepted... that is night and day my friend... and i truly hope that YOU don't live in a glass house....


ps... rifle (if you see this ) i hope that your hands heal quickly!! best of luck!!

Good call gizzy, I was not happy with him "leaving his mark" but he owned up to it, so that's in the past. I see nothing wrong what he is doing now. I hope he heals quickly with no lasting complications, and gets back on the trail soon.

There are enough people in this world we can pick on that actually deserve it. I don't think Rifle is one of them.

[Malto]

There has been virtually no Rifle bashing on this site since he addressed the graffiti issue. His guest book on the other hand is an embarrassment........ I am shocked at how mean spirited some of the comments have been. The bright side of the story is that conditions on the trail are much less contentious than in the cyber hiking community.

[ChinMusic]

I am shocked at how mean spirited some of the comments have been. The bright side of the story is that conditions on the trail are much less contentious than in the cyber hiking community.

No freaking kidding. Some of the crap sent to mild-mannered me has been an embarrassment. Not of WB, but from FB. I just have to remember that fools that send such crap are a tiny minority and easily ignored.

Rifle has had a ton of BS thrown at him. Let's hope he can just brush it off.

[Sly]

Yeah, since Rifle addressed his graffiti issue his drawn a lot of undue criticism, however, if he's not (subtly) soliciting funds why did he set up a dedicated Paypal email?

[Sly]

I thought the "work your way up the AT" thing was a 70's thing.Not doable these days.There are people living in trail towns who need jobs:eek:......

If you absolutely wanted to you could pick up a couple hundred here and there. I think I read where he thought he was only about $600 short which is well into New England. Rather than retreating to Georgia, it's too bad he didn't think about hiking to the Kincora for R&R. He'd be in good hands with Bob.

[bfayer]

..., if he's not (subtly) soliciting funds why did he set up a dedicated Paypal email?

Well I look at it this way. When I have friends show up at the house for a visit, if they bring a gift, I don't tell them to keep it, I just tell them thank you, just leave it on the table.

Some see it as pretty rude to refuse a gift.

[ChinMusic]

Yeah, since Rifle addressed his graffiti issue his drawn a lot of undue criticism, however, if he's not (subtly) soliciting funds why did he set up a dedicated Paypal email?

Folks asked to send him money. He was being polite by giving them a venue.

I will not judge him harshly for accepting their unsolicited (IMO) kindness.

[ChinMusic]

Well I look at it this way. When I have friends show up at the house for a visit, if they bring a gift, I don't tell them to keep it, I just tell them thank you, just leave it on the table.

Some see it as pretty rude to refuse a gift.
That is the light as which I see the gmail account as well. It is simply the "table".

[bfayer]

That is the light as which I see the gmail account as well. It is simply the "table".

Maybe its a south verses north thing. One time years ago I stopped to help a guy in GA with a broken down car. Once we got the car running, he offered me a $20 and I said no thank you. He tried to give it to me again and I said no again. At that point he got very angry and tried to shove it in my pocket, I went from being his best friend to worst enemy in 30 seconds.

I was born and raised in Michigan and that was one of my first trips down south. Since then I have learned if a southern gentleman tries to give you something, you take it and smile. The same rule applies to southern ladies and food :)

When I take my kids back up north (both born and raised down here), they always ask me "why are people up here so rude". I just smile and tell them "they're not rude, just another flavor of nice"

[fins1838]

The Rifleman? Not sure, but maybe Nickleodean or 1 of them stations that airs old tv shows.

[ChinMusic]

Maybe its a south verses north thing. One time years ago I stopped to help a guy in GA with a broken down car. Once we got the car running, he offered me a $20 and I said no thank you. He tried to give it to me again and I said no again. At that point he got very angry and tried to shove it in my pocket, I went from being his best friend to worst enemy in 30 seconds.
It took me awhile to learn to just accept gifts like that as well. Politely decline once but if they insist, smile and take it. I guess it is a different dance in different parts, and I don't have much rhythm. It can easily be one of those awkward damned-if-you-do,-damned-if-you-don't moments.

[max patch]

The Rifleman? Not sure, but maybe Nickleodean or 1 of them stations that airs old tv shows.

Its on Comcast channel 248 WSBR (MeTV) 6:00 and 6:30 in the Atlanta market. Catch an episode when you fly into Atlanta for your thru. :)

[gizzy bear]

Maybe its a south verses north thing. One time years ago I stopped to help a guy in GA with a broken down car. Once we got the car running, he offered me a $20 and I said no thank you. He tried to give it to me again and I said no again. At that point he got very angry and tried to shove it in my pocket, I went from being his best friend to worst enemy in 30 seconds.

I was born and raised in Michigan and that was one of my first trips down south. Since then I have learned if a southern gentleman tries to give you something, you take it and smile. The same rule applies to southern ladies and food :)

When I take my kids back up north (both born and raised down here), they always ask me "why are people up here so rude". I just smile and tell them "they're not rude, just another flavor of nice"


the south is a different experience...for sure...speaking of southern ladies... you eat those pinto beans "she" cooked with fat back, for 5 hours and the potatoes & onions "she" fried (in the cast iron skillet, of course) in bacon fat and then you wonder where you have been all your life... oops...can't forget the cornbread :p and when your plate is clean and you are invited to have more, you accept and you tell "her" to stop at 2 scoops and you get the 3rd "unsolicited" scoop, just because... just be accepting, because if you act otherwise, you may recieve a look that could severe your head, clean off your shoulders....all....with a southern smile :) i love GRITS!!!!!!

[canoe]

The Rifleman? Not sure, but maybe Nickleodean or 1 of them stations that airs old tv shows. We sure did need some levity here. Thanks for cheer!!!!

[atmilkman]

The Rifleman? Not sure, but maybe Nickleodean or 1 of them stations that airs old tv shows.

How many times does the Rifleman shoot in the 2nd version?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7k7SIydMok&feature=player_detailpage

[aficion]

Maybe its a south verses north thing. One time years ago I stopped to help a guy in GA with a broken down car. Once we got the car running, he offered me a $20 and I said no thank you. He tried to give it to me again and I said no again. At that point he got very angry and tried to shove it in my pocket, I went from being his best friend to worst enemy in 30 seconds.

I was born and raised in Michigan and that was one of my first trips down south. Since then I have learned if a southern gentleman tries to give you something, you take it and smile. The same rule applies to southern ladies and food :)

When I take my kids back up north (both born and raised down here), they always ask me "why are people up here so rude". I just smile and tell them "they're not rude, just another flavor of nice"

Not far from Neel's Gap, a dozen or so years ago, I changed a flat for an older couple who were stranded on the side of the road. They had a spare and a jack, just couldn't break the lug nuts loose. I happened to have a 4 way that fit and had them on their way in short order. At the time, I was relatively well off and did not want or need the twenty he offered me. I took it though, with sincere gratitude, and thanked him and his wife very kindly. We were blessed that day to meet each other and offer help and appreciation. Life is like that. Everywhere.

[Odd Man Out]

There has been virtually no Rifle bashing on this site since he addressed the graffiti issue. His guest book on the other hand is an embarrassment........ I am shocked at how mean spirited some of the comments have been. The bright side of the story is that conditions on the trail are much less contentious than in the cyber hiking community.

Can some one give a link to this "guest book". For some reason, I can't seem to find it.

[Northern Lights]

Can some one give a link to this "guest book". For some reason, I can't seem to find it.

He's removed access to the guest book

[urbansix]

I think he took it off line because it was becoming a pointless troll/flame war. He also deleted at lwast one of his owns posts that was attempting to counter the haters.

[HikerMom58]

Can some one give a link to this "guest book". For some reason, I can't seem to find it.

I just checked, he took his guest book away.... He's still posting tho....

[BirdBrain]

I think he took it off line because it was becoming a pointless troll/flame war. He also deleted at lwast one of his owns posts that was attempting to counter the haters.

Help = Hate for some. The only way some people can feel good about themselves is to slam someone else. I was in on the carving debate. I was speaking in favor of a young man that did something he thought was innocent. Sad state of affairs. I am certain he has learned some valuable lessons of life which are far more important than "should you carve on a shelter".

[ChinMusic]

I am certain he has learned some valuable lessons of life which are far more important than "should you carve on a shelter".

Yes, that there are some strange people out there.

[Sly]

It looks like the length of my intermission will be governed by the temperatures and what I think my hands can handle with my new, more robust glove system. . At this point I'm not planning on being off the trail for any longer than two more weeks.

How long does it take to buy a pair of mittens?

[ChinMusic]

How long does it take to buy a pair of mittens?


The MD said his hands will take some time to heal.

[Sly]

The MD said his hands will take some time to heal.

Yeah, since it's still mid-February, no doubt he'd still hit temperatures well below freezing. He'd probably be best using something like this.

19746

http://www.cheaptents.com/acatalog/lowe-convert-mittens.html

[takethisbread]

I hate to be a pessimistic voice, but there are many issues that bug me about this case. Lets just lay them out:
1. His issue up for debate is money: then why start January 1? Cost to hike then increases significantly . More food more gear more time off
2. Why start a hike when money could be an issue? He is 25, why not save more money? I have kids work for me in summer that save $4,000-$8,000 in a few months. More than enough to thruhike. I think the money saving part is an intrical part of the journey. The journey starts well before you get to the southern Terminus.
3. By making his needs public, he invited donations, which is solicitation, then posted a PayPal to the folks to make it easier. Where is ones pride? It's not a life death issue like Katrina or Sandy, this guy could just go home, it's a vacation. There are better places to send money.
4. The guy has a family: I believe the father is a pastor. Shouldn't they be his support team?
I'm sure he is a nice kid, but the test of a man is often self sufficiency in the face of hardship. There are times when u accept a helping hand financially , I'm thinking feeding your children, medical emergency, ect. Not vacation.
5. This is not to besmirch the kind folks who helped him, it's a natural reaction of some folks, to help somebody in turmoil. God made us for this purpose. I just believe in the congregation in his fathers church there may have been a few greater needs than a paid vacation.
6. Part of the thru hike is the financial/ time aspect. Accepting or soliciting funds from folks is IMO akin to yellow blazing.
7. What's wrong with a good long section hike? If you come up short in money and only get to Vermont who cares? You can finish next year.
8. Maybe my issues are of old guy, thinking of a Gary Cooper American role model. They just don't make the no excuses strong silent type anymore. (Least of all myself) . Maybe I'm jealous .
Sorry, I appreciate and accept other people's opposing view, but this is mine and I'm sure a couple others as well. I wish Rifle all the best and may God bless him on his journey. I hope he doesn't spoil his new found opportunity

[HikerMom58]

takethisbread- you have loads of questions about Rifle and his decision making process... that's fine. I don't agree with your reasoning on many things... that's OK too. But using the word vacation.... humm... that word is a problem for me, personally, because when my daughter decided she was going to hike the trail, it was not for a vacation at all. There's so many reason's why people decide to hike the trail. My daughter did not hike for a vacation. The trail helped her in so many ways. Hiking the trail, for her, was a stepping stone in helping her to move forward in her life. She is still moving forward and has never looked back..... Hiking the trail can be so much more than a physical journey of moving oneself from one location to another, for some.

[Lone Wolf]

most hike the trail for fun. if your daughter didn't hike it for fun or a vacation what did she hike for?

[HikerMom58]

most hike the trail for fun. if your daughter didn't hike it for fun or a vacation what did she hike for?

LW.. I can't share that with you... it's too personal. I agree with you tho. prob. most hike the trail for fun (personal challenge) or a vacation. Some hike it to lose weight. I just hesitate to say 100% hike it for a vacation. I feel like Rifle was hiking it for more personal reasons. I don't know that for sure but maybe. :)

[BirdBrain]

most hike the trail for fun. if your daughter didn't hike it for fun or a vacation what did she hike for?

I think the answer was, "Hiking the trail, for her, was a stepping stone in helping her to move forward in her life." I.e. introspection. Seems to be a fairly common reason why people do it. People are at cross roads and they go for a walk.

[bfayer]

I think a lot of kids hike the trail for the same reason a lot of kids join the military, and make no mistake, I am not comparing to two in any way. Just comparing the reasoning process for some of these young hikers.

Many of both groups I have talked to, talk about needing to do something that will challenge them to accomplish something beyond their everyday existence. I think it is very human to want to accomplish some type of "right of passage". They see it more as enduring adversity, and not as a vacation.

I believe this is the reason so many young thru hikers get the "thru hiker attitude". It is not unlike the attitude you see when a group of new military "boots" right out if basic get together at some local bar. They feel they have done something important, something beyond the normal person.

I think it is also the same reason there are so many "thru hikers" that never hike again, because it was never about hiking, or having fun, it was about the quest.

I believe it is very much a symptom of our generally affluent society. When some people grow up without hardship, they feel they need to create their own to prove themselves.

[Sly]

A long distance hike is a long distance hike. While some may consider it a vacation, I don't think walking 15-20 miles a day is a vacation. It may be time away from a paying job (if you have one) but it's still a lot of work.

A vacation to me is car camping at a national park, sitting on a tropical beach, or visiting museums in Europe.

YMMV.

[Pedaling Fool]

A long distance hike is a long distance hike. While some may consider it a vacation, I don't think walking 15-20 miles a day is a vacation. It may be time away from a paying job (if you have one) but it's still a lot of work.

A vacation to me is sitting on a tropical beach, or visiting museums in Europe.

YMMV.By that definition, work is something that is boring; afterall that's why so many get off the trail :)

[Sly]

I believe thus is the reason so many young thru hikers get the thru hiker attitude

What's the thru-hiker attitude?

[Sly]

By that definition, work is something that is boring; afterall that's why so many get off the trail :)

I'm not sure I defined "long distance hike", only one thing it's not.

[rocketsocks]

Stay fed
stay warm
stay dry.....pretty simple living really, this is what appeals to me about hiking, the world melts away with all it's Blah Blah Blah!

[HikerMom58]

I think the answer was, "Hiking the trail, for her, was a stepping stone in helping her to move forward in her life." I.e. introspection. Seems to be a fairly common reason why people do it. People are at cross roads and they go for a walk.

Yes BB... she did do a lot of introspection during that first 500 miles out. She came back more confident in herself as well.


I think a lot of kids hike the trail for the same reason a lot of kids join the military, and make no mistake, I am not comparing to two in any way. Just comparing the reasoning process for some of these young hikers.

Many of both groups I have talked to, talk about needing to do something that will challenge them to accomplish something beyond their everyday existence. It think it is very human to want to accomplish some type of "right of passage". They see it more as enduring adversity, and not as a vacation.

I believe thus is the reason so many young thru hikers get the thru hiker attitude

Some do see it as enduring adversity. They want a big pat on the back for it, when it's all over 2. I'll never forget this one guy told a random person that he had just hiked the entire AT. They looked at him like they didn't know what that was or acted liked they even cared. What a let down for that thru-hiker! :eek:
Some become addicted to the attention that one receives from hiking, especially if they write a journal & they get lots of attention from that alone.

You can tell the ones that aren't hiking for the attention. They are pretty easy to spot. :) But, there's a part in all of us that love that attention, regardless.

I don't think there is a thru-hiker out there that doesn't love that bragging right. I would be the same way, no question about it. Personally tho, I really like the more humble ones. :)

[WingedMonkey]

Every year hikers don't complete a thru-hike.

Sometimes it's because of a lack of planning.

Sometimes it's because of physical injuries.

Sometimes it's because of a lack of money.

Rifle seems to have done all three.

Someones got to be in the 80%.

:p

[BirdBrain]

Personally tho, I really like the more humble ones. :)

I would be willing to eat humble... pie.

[10-K]

A good plan B would be to turn around and hike back to Springer via the BMT. He could get his name on the BMTA website for doing the BMT/AT loop. :)

He might have done a lot of stuff wrong but at least he wasn't sitting at home on the couch. Kudos for getting outside in my book.

[10-K]

....................

[Coffee Rules!]

3. By making his needs public, he invited donations, which is solicitation Your opinion.

There are better places to send money Maybe so, but what business is it of yours what other people do with THEIR OWN MONEY? Should I submit my budget for my upcoming vacation for your approval? Quite selfish, the plans I've made. There are better places to spend the money. Give me an email address and I'll send it to you. You can expect it to arrive around the 12th of Never.

5. This is not to besmirch the kind folks who helped him, it's a natural reaction of some folks, to help somebody in turmoil. God made us for this purpose. I just believe in the congregation in his fathers church there may have been a few greater needs than a paid vacation. Yet you manage to besmirch them anyway, all while playing The Nice Guy. Sanctimonious much?

6. Part of the thru hike is the financial/ time aspect. Accepting or soliciting funds from folks is IMO akin to yellow blazing. Again, your opinion, both regarding the alleged solicitation of funds and it being akin to yellow blazing.



Just my nickel's worth.

[Kaptain Kangaroo]

I hate to be a pessimistic voice, but there are many issues that bug me about this case. Lets just lay them out:
1. His issue up for debate is money: then why start January 1? Cost to hike then increases significantly . More food more gear more time off
2. Why start a hike when money could be an issue? He is 25, why not save more money? I have kids work for me in summer that save $4,000-$8,000 in a few months. More than enough to thruhike. I think the money saving part is an intrical part of the journey. The journey starts well before you get to the southern Terminus.
3. By making his needs public, he invited donations, which is solicitation, then posted a PayPal to the folks to make it easier. Where is ones pride? It's not a life death issue like Katrina or Sandy, this guy could just go home, it's a vacation. There are better places to send money.
4. The guy has a family: I believe the father is a pastor. Shouldn't they be his support team?
I'm sure he is a nice kid, but the test of a man is often self sufficiency in the face of hardship. There are times when u accept a helping hand financially , I'm thinking feeding your children, medical emergency, ect. Not vacation.
5. This is not to besmirch the kind folks who helped him, it's a natural reaction of some folks, to help somebody in turmoil. God made us for this purpose. I just believe in the congregation in his fathers church there may have been a few greater needs than a paid vacation.
6. Part of the thru hike is the financial/ time aspect. Accepting or soliciting funds from folks is IMO akin to yellow blazing.
7. What's wrong with a good long section hike? If you come up short in money and only get to Vermont who cares? You can finish next year.
8. Maybe my issues are of old guy, thinking of a Gary Cooper American role model. They just don't make the no excuses strong silent type anymore. (Least of all myself) . Maybe I'm jealous .
Sorry, I appreciate and accept other people's opposing view, but this is mine and I'm sure a couple others as well. I wish Rifle all the best and may God bless him on his journey. I hope he doesn't spoil his new found opportunity

Yeah, I don't get this either...he hadn't actually run out of money. He just commented that he was likely to come up short for hiking the entire trail. Apart from the fact that most people don't finish & never need all the money they saved, he was only 15% of the way through his hike, plenty of time to start being more careful with his money & make what he had last longer.......

And as for setting up a special Paypal account so people could donate more easily. If my daughter did that I would be horrified...... if this truly is a 'life experience' and not just a vacation, then figure it out yourself, do the hard things to make it possible......that is where the learning comes from....not relying on handouts from others.

(Grumpy parent mode off..)

[bfayer]

What's the thru-hiker attitude?

Same attitude some young college grads have before they actually enter the work force, a lot of our young military folks have before they report to their first real unit, and yes thru hikers.

Shakespeare knew about it when he wrote Henry V, "We few, we happy few, we band of brothers". It is a sense of shared adversity that gives one a feeling of superiority, or if not that the feeling being part of something exclusive and special, in other words elitism.

The good news is it is a short term ailment for most, and very much curable by dealing with real life :)

[oceaneire]

Just my nickel's worth.

Coffee, I knew I liked you.

I just don't know why some folks seem to be dead set on nailing this kid to the wall. He makes mistakes (like all of us) - he apologizes and corrects his behavior (like very few of us) - and he shares his enthusiasm with us, only to be scolded and ridiculed by quite a few people. I was really enjoying his journey and am saddened that so many negative responses have caused him to shut down his guest book. I'm surprised he hasn't shut down his journal, too. I know that the response of some of the community has certainly sucked a lot of the joy right out of his adventure and that's a darned shame. Life beats us up enough - and we learn our lessons - we don't need to be battered by people we don't even know. This young man has had enough abuse - I hope he really is able to let it go rather than become bitter and start passing the same thing on to others.

[takethisbread]

I don't see how I insulted anyone who gave him money, nor do I feel sanctimonious, I think I feel like apparently quite a few others do that this gentleman has the desire to be a thru hiker, just not willing to work, save and plan properly for what I call a vacation. People can spend money however they desire, it's just that Rifle should know better. Like I said before, I hope he succeeds, and he grows from this experience,
Just my nickel's worth.

[Carry-On]

Coffee, I knew I liked you.

I just don't know why some folks seem to be dead set on nailing this kid to the wall. He makes mistakes (like all of us) - he apologizes and corrects his behavior (like very few of us) - and he shares his enthusiasm with us, only to be scolded and ridiculed by quite a few people. I was really enjoying his journey and am saddened that so many negative responses have caused him to shut down his guest book. I'm surprised he hasn't shut down his journal, too. I know that the response of some of the community has certainly sucked a lot of the joy right out of his adventure and that's a darned shame. Life beats us up enough - and we learn our lessons - we don't need to be battered by people we don't even know. This young man has had enough abuse - I hope he really is able to let it go rather than become bitter and start passing the same thing on to others.

I agree. I'm just glad I wasn't checking on WB during my thruhike. I had supportive friends and family, some who did give me money. I believed by accepting the donations that people were enjoying my adventure and living vicariously through my thruhike and they wanted me to continue and not stop due to lack of funds. I accepted the donations knowing that I "owed" it to them to finish my hike. I couldn't quit after they helped me like that. They had invested in me and my hike. They wanted to participate. They couldn't hike themselves and wanted me to be able to finish.

I think that if people want to donate to the hiker that is between them and the hiker and none of the rest of your business. Get over it. Either follow his hike and hopefully support him, or leave him alone and ignore him. For all I know you all were on here attacking me while I hiked, too. Thank goodness I didn't know and all the comments I got on my blog and Facebook were positive and supportive, mostly by people I met along the way or knew previous to starting my hike. I welcomed constructive comments, too, if they didn't attack me.

Not everybody plans perfectly, and many people find it costs more than they expected. A thruhike is hard enough, and he made mistakes, and so did I, but to have people flaming you on WB and on your guestbook is disgraceful behavior by those people. IMHO.

[rocketsocks]

but to have people flaming you on WB and on your guestbook is disgraceful behavior by those people. IMHO.Agree...the whole thing is just a big bowl of confusion, what a mess!

[HikerMom58]

People can't just assume things about a person or their motives for hiking the trail. Nor can we understand why people would want to support him financially without having all the facts. If you don't have all the facts about Rifle, himself, and the other people in his life, you are passing unfair judgements on him or anyone associated with him.

I'm not good at searching for threads on here but Rifle came on WB first. As honest and open as he has been with all of us, I'm sure he didn't share everything that went into his decision for hiking the trail.

He may realize, now, that picking Jan. 1st , as a start date, may not have been the best time to start hiking the AT. He would prob. tell us that he has learned so much the short time he was on the trail. This entire experience could/should be a important learning experience for him but I fear that the unfair judging and pure hatred from others is taking something away from the things he has learned. Even so, I do understand, that even all this "stuff" he is going through, it could still be part of the plan that makes him & molds him into the person he is meant to be.

I believe things happen for a reason. Something good can always come out of a bad situation.

[HikerMom58]

I agree. I'm just glad I wasn't checking on WB during my thruhike. I had supportive friends and family, some who did give me money. I believed by accepting the donations that people were enjoying my adventure and living vicariously through my thruhike and they wanted me to continue and not stop due to lack of funds. I accepted the donations knowing that I "owed" it to them to finish my hike. I couldn't quit after they helped me like that. They had invested in me and my hike. They wanted to participate. They couldn't hike themselves and wanted me to be able to finish.

I think that if people want to donate to the hiker that is between them and the hiker and none of the rest of your business. Get over it. Either follow his hike and hopefully support him, or leave him alone and ignore him. For all I know you all were on here attacking me while I hiked, too. Thank goodness I didn't know and all the comments I got on my blog and Facebook were positive and supportive, mostly by people I met along the way or knew previous to starting my hike. I welcomed constructive comments, too, if they didn't attack me.

Not everybody plans perfectly, and many people find it costs more than they expected. A thruhike is hard enough, and he made mistakes, and so did I, but to have people flaming you on WB and on your guestbook is disgraceful behavior by those people. IMHO.

I love you, Carry On... so proud of you in so many ways! :) You understand people very well.

[kayak karl]

"Everything happens for a reason but sometimes the reason is that you’re stupid and you make bad decisions."
it has held true in my life many, many times.

[saltysack]

Leave the poor kid alone!! People sit on there fat a.. and bitch from there couch! He's done nothing wrong!

[aficion]

Leave the poor kid alone!! People sit on there fat a.. and bitch from there couch! He's done nothing wrong!

Actually he's done a few things wrong. No need to crucify him.

[BirdBrain]

Actually he's done a few things wrong. No need to crucify him.

Actually he did 2 things wrong:

1) He posted information about his attempted thru-hike.
2) He didn't live up to the standards of a few ignorant people.

I will not be making the 1st mistake.
It is impossible to not make the 2nd mistake.

[Malto]

Actually he did 2 things wrong:

1) He posted information about his attempted thru-hike.
2) He didn't live up to the standards of a few ignorant people.

I will not be making the 1st mistake.
It is impossible to not make the 2nd mistake.

I will give rifle credit for this...... His assessment of his mistakes are more accurate than yours. But, can we just move on. His story is no different than the 80% of the other hikers that don't finish, though he may yet finish and be part of the 20%. The only reason it has been so talked about is because of the threads about the challenges of an early season hike and the graffiti incident. Other than that he would be no more famous or infamous than the rest of the 80%. Not a hero and not a villain.

[kayak karl]

Actually he did 2 things wrong:

1) He posted information about his attempted thru-hike.
2) He didn't live up to the standards of a few ignorant people.

I will not be making the 1st mistake.
It is impossible to not make the 2nd mistake.
i left 1/1/09. quit 2/28/09. posted all about hike even to the point of posting Spot link. i got a few "i told you so's", but with a smile :). no negative comments. what did i do different?

[BirdBrain]

i left 1/1/09. quit 2/28/09. posted all about hike even to the point of posting Spot link. i got a few "i told you so's", but with a smile :). no negative comments. what did i do different?

2 things:

1) You did not commit the crime of the century by carving your name on a shelter as many have before.
2) You are 57 which does not embolden people to pick on you.

I am done with this subject. It makes me want to puke the way people justify the actions of the detractors. You would think Rifle was Charles Manson. May God lay the sins of Rifles critics naked before the world and have them suffer a similar fate.

[aficion]

2 things:

1) You did not commit the crime of the century by carving your name on a shelter as many have before.
2) You are 57 which does not embolden people to pick on you.

I am done with this subject. It makes me want to puke the way people justify the actions of the detractors. You would think Rifle was Charles Manson. May God lay the sins of Rifles critics naked before the world and have them suffer a similar fate.

This thread's sure got its fair share of melodrama.

[Coffee Rules!]

Actually he did 2 things wrong:

1) He posted information about his attempted thru-hike.
2) He didn't live up to the standards of a few ignorant people.

It is impossible to not make the 2nd mistake.

You just became my idol.

Which isn't to say I don't still think him a fool. HOWEVER, he doesn't deserve the treatment he's getting nor the previously mentioned crucifixion.

[Astro]

Stay fed
stay warm
stay dry.....pretty simple living really, this is what appeals to me about hiking, the world melts away with all it's Blah Blah Blah!

RS, forgot stay hydrated. :D

[rocketsocks]

RS, forgot stay hydrated. :Dooh damn:o...Yes, stay drink! :D thanks Astro :)

[gizzy bear]

who's rifle ? ;)

[Fur Queue]

Where is the thread about carving your name on a shelter? Many years ago, when it was still possible, I climbed the great Pyramid at Gizza, someone (amongst many other things) had carved, M.U.F.C. on the 'summit' stone...there was 'grafitti' on there going back thousands of years...it's a tradition!

[WingedMonkey]

Where is the thread about carving your name on a shelter? Many years ago, when it was still possible, I climbed the great Pyramid at Gizza, someone (amongst many other things) had carved, M.U.F.C. on the 'summit' stone...there was 'grafitti' on there going back thousands of years...it's a tradition!

Pissin and crappin in the street is also a thousands of years old. Why stop?

[Fur Queue]

Pissin and crappin in the street is also a thousands of years old. Why stop?


They haven't stopped that either in Egypt....

[RedBeerd]

No update since the 14th..he ever make it back on the trail?

[Slo-go'en]

No update since the 14th..he ever make it back on the trail?

He may still be waiting for the weather to improve - looks like it could be a long wait...

[RedBeerd]

According to him he would have started hiking 17-18th..not sure what the weather was like then and afterwards but seems like he is way off!! Wouldn't be surprised if he said screw it. I'd go stir crazy.

[lobotomized]

Annnnd, I've just been convinced not to keep a trail journal. Thank you to all the cynical armchair adventurers!

[Train Wreck]

Annnnd, I've just been convinced not to keep a trail journal. Thank you to all the cynical armchair adventurers!

Yeah, you 'd prolly get less of a negative reaction if you opened a can of worms, dumped it on top of a hornets nest, and kicked the whole mess toward a sleeping dog...:rolleyes:

[HikerMom58]

Annnnd, I've just been convinced not to keep a trail journal. Thank you to all the cynical armchair adventurers!

Don't blame you at all....sorry lobotomized. :( There are other ways to keep in touch with folks on the trail.

If you see Rifle out there be sure to tell him that he has a lot of supporters....

[Carry-On]

Annnnd, I've just been convinced not to keep a trail journal. Thank you to all the cynical armchair adventurers!

Or keep it, keep it a few weeks behind, don't allow comments, and don't look on WB while you're hiking. :datz

Or, even better, just make one on blogger.com (or somewhere not trailjournals) and only give it to friends and family. Let them share it with their friends and you can share it with people you meet as you go, but it won't get this kind of exposure or reaction because they know you.

[takethisbread]

Wonder if he is gonna return the money some sent him.
According to him he would have started hiking 17-18th..not sure what the weather was like then and afterwards but seems like he is way off!! Wouldn't be surprised if he said screw it. I'd go stir crazy.

[Marta]

It's completely possible to keep a TJ without garnering a special thread on WB about your hike. All you have to do is not decide you know better than thousands of other hikers who've hiked before you and not choose to defy some common-sense recommendation. In other words, if you decide to hike without enough money, or hopping only on one foot, or whatever, and make a big production about how you know you can do this because you are such an amazing person, people WILL talk about you. You're gambling, and most people are betting you're going to fail, because most people do, even if they stick to doing everything possible to make their hike easy.

[Old Hiker]

Yeah, you 'd prolly get less of a negative reaction if you opened a can of worms, dumped it on top of a hornets nest, and kicked the whole mess toward a sleeping dog...:rolleyes:


Who sleeps with a loaded handgun and is TOTALLY paranoid about people stealing his/her cheese and bacon. :)

[Old Hiker]

It's completely possible to keep a TJ without garnering a special thread on WB about your hike. All you have to do is not decide you know better than thousands of other hikers who've hiked before you and not choose to defy some common-sense recommendation. In other words, if you decide to hike without enough money, or hopping only on one foot, or whatever, and make a big production about how you know you can do this because you are such an amazing person, people WILL talk about you. You're gambling, and most people are betting you're going to fail, because most people do, even if they stick to doing everything possible to make their hike easy.

Marta !!!!

A moderator being snarky and facetious?? Say it ain't so! That's for us unwashed hoi polloi !!

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Thanks for all you do. Seriously.

[Malto]

Yeah, you 'd prolly get less of a negative reaction if you opened a can of worms, dumped it on top of a hornets nest, and kicked the whole mess toward a sleeping dog...:rolleyes:

I kept a journal and had two negative comments. One said I would fail and the other took issue with a comment that I had made. But there were hundreds of very supportive folks from all over the world that sent words of encouragement and it was a very uplifting experience. Whether you keep a journal or not and whether you activate your guest book or not is your call but it was a very positive experience for me.

it does seem a bit disturbing the trend to trash hikers on their guest book. Generally it appears that some invited the controversy. A few others like rifle just inadvertently stepped into it. The biggest factor was that he started in the winter when hiking hours are least and cyber hiking the most.

[max patch]

The biggest factor was that he started in the winter when hiking hours are least and cyber hiking the most.

That was not the "biggest factor" at all.

When the Executive Director of the ATC knows your name.....

[max patch]

According to him he would have started hiking 17-18th..not sure what the weather was like then and afterwards but seems like he is way off!! Wouldn't be surprised if he said screw it. I'd go stir crazy.

He already shut down the comment section of his journal. Wouldn't surprise me at all if he stopped updating his journal. All the journal did was draw much unwanted attention to himself. He can let friends and family follow him via private emails.

[HikerMom58]

IHMO... some people got all weird because he mentioned having faith in God.. Whoa.. it's such a BAD THING! Then, they took that fact & slammed him up against the wall for doing something that he honestly thought was NO BIG DEAL!! There's rules that one has to follow to be :cool: in certain people's eyes & that SUCKS!! There's my snarky comment of the day.

[kayak karl]

He already shut down the comment section of his journal. Wouldn't surprise me at all if he stopped updating his journal. All the journal did was draw much unwanted attention to himself. He can let friends and family follow him via private emails.
when he started he wanted nothing but attention. things go bad and now it's unwanted? can't have it both ways.

[Marta]

when he started he wanted nothing but attention. things go bad and now it's unwanted? can't have it both ways.

True dat. :-)

[WingedMonkey]

It's God's fault.

[rocketsocks]

It's God's fault.Boy...I'd love to hear your explanation for that, please enlighten us all.

[Sly]

Marta !!!!

A moderator being snarky and facetious?? Say it ain't so! That's for us unwashed hoi polloi !!



We're not only moderators, we're human! :p

[gizzy bear]

IHMO... some people got all weird because he mentioned having faith in God.. Whoa.. it's such a BAD THING! Then, they took that fact & slammed him up against the wall for doing something that he honestly thought was NO BIG DEAL!! There's rules that one has to follow to be :cool: in certain people's eyes & that SUCKS!! There's my snarky comment of the day.

you "snarky" on.... HMKD!! :D it is quite with all the folks, on here, who think they are perfect... i think their "new" hiking sayings should be.....HMHOYSBIAT****UAIKIABIAASPHBISIAATINWBMY " hike my hike or you suck because i am the smartest hiker in the universe and i know it all because i am a smarty pants hiker because i said i am and there is no way but my way" ... and lest we forget... "have fun doing it the wrong way, unless of course you do it my way and then you'll be doing it right" .... these kinds of people crack me up!!!

[kayak karl]

Boy...I'd love to hear your explanation for that, please enlighten us all.
hikermom says its gods fault :)

[rocketsocks]

hikermom says its gods fault :)oh, missed that one...it pays to read.

Now that's not what she said...making that leap would be a long one.:)

[atmilkman]

Actually he did 2 things wrong:

1) He posted information about his attempted thru-hike.
2) He didn't live up to the standards of a few ignorant people.

I will not be making the 1st mistake.
It is impossible to not make the 2nd mistake.
It's impossible TO make the second mistake. Actually there is no second mistake. There is no such thing as living up to anyone's standards let alone ignorant people.

[treesloth]

It's completely possible to keep a TJ without garnering a special thread on WB about your hike. All you have to do is not decide you know better than thousands of other hikers who've hiked before you and not choose to defy some common-sense recommendation. In other words, if you decide to hike without enough money, or hopping only on one foot, or whatever, and make a big production about how you know you can do this because you are such an amazing person, people WILL talk about you. You're gambling, and most people are betting you're going to fail, because most people do, even if they stick to doing everything possible to make their hike easy.

Well stated, Marta. :)

[HikerMom58]

when he started he wanted nothing but attention. things go bad and now it's unwanted? can't have it both ways.

Nope- disagree. When you start a journal, you know people will be reading it. He was starting really early on the trail, so everyone would be watching him. It's a given. He did get on here and NOT take advice of WBer's on when he should start his hike.... he's a young guy. It's not the first time a person won't take good advice, and it won't be the last. So, you really have to believe that you can get inside someone's head to KNOW that they started a thread with the pure intention of grabbing as many people's attention for his hike as he could.. really?

He DID NOT realize that he had done anything WRONG, in carving the shelter. You can believe that or not. I believe him. People had a right to let him know how they felt about it... no prob. Do peeps HAVE to mean and ugly about it? NO WAY!

When people crapped all over his journal , threw everything ugly and rude at him- to include mentioning his faith in God-that was proof right there ,for me, that those people were pure haters.

Why in the world would anyone be shocked that he would start deleting those comments and then shut his guest book down.

When people are mean, ugly and out of control- what choice do you really have? I don't buy - "when things go bad".... NO WAY!! There's no way that he did ANYTHING to give haters a right to pour out their hate. NOTHING. That is a reflection of THEM not him.

He was a young guy that was putting himself out there. He learned some important life lessons, for the world to see.

This guy can't win for loosing b/c, even now, no one seems to remember that he did apologize. He's only remembered for being a smart arse? Doomed to fail?
OKay... NOT.

WM... I don't get your comment - God's fault... it doesn't make any sense. nor do I understand your comment either, KK. Whatever...

It could be the Tooth Fairy's fault or Santa Clause or how bout the Easter Bunny's or no ones FAULT.

It's all about living life, making mistakes,people's reactions & interactions with others. Sometimes, you don't get it RIGHT... Right? Do you or have ya'll always got things- RIGHT?

[Northern Lights]

Anyone know if he continued his hike, he was suppose to have headed out around the 16th, just wondering if he is still hiking or if he is still waiting for his hands to heal.

[Sly]

He DID NOT realize that he had done anything WRONG, in carving the shelter. You can believe that or not.

LOL... that's seriously hard to believe. Almost like saying I beat my girl friend, but she deserved it.

[Rasty]

when he started he wanted nothing but attention. things go bad and now it's unwanted? can't have it both ways.

Nope- disagree. When you start a journal, you know people will be reading it. He was starting really early on the trail, so everyone would be watching him. It's a given. He did get on here and NOT take advice of WBer's on when he should start his hike.... he's a young guy. It's not the first time a person won't take good advice, and it won't be the last. So, you really have to believe that you can get inside someone's head to KNOW that they started a thread with the pure intention of grabbing as many people's attention for his hike as he could.. really?

He DID NOT realize that he had done anything WRONG, in carving the shelter. You can believe that or not. I believe him. People had a right to let him know how they felt about it... no prob. Do peeps HAVE to mean and ugly about it? NO WAY!

When people crapped all over his journal , threw everything ugly and rude at him- to include mentioning his faith in God-that was proof right there ,for me, that those people were pure haters.

Why in the world would anyone be shocked that he would start deleting those comments and then shut his guest book down.

When people are mean, ugly and out of control- what choice do you really have? I don't buy - "when things go bad".... NO WAY!! There's no way that he did ANYTHING to give haters a right to pour out their hate. NOTHING. That is a reflection of THEM not him.

He was a young guy that was putting himself out there. He learned some important life lessons, for the world to see.

This guy can't win for loosing b/c, even now, no one seems to remember that he did apologize. He's only remembered for being a smart arse? Doomed to fail?
OKay... NOT.

WM... I don't get your comment - God's fault... it doesn't make any sense. nor do I understand your comment either, KK. Whatever...

It could be the Tooth Fairy's fault or Santa Clause or how bout the Easter Bunny's or no ones FAULT.

It's all about living life, making mistakes,people's reactions & interactions with others. Sometimes, you don't get it RIGHT... Right? Do you or have ya'll always got things- RIGHT?

He didn't know carving into a shelter was wrong. Sorry but he knew it was wrong and did it because he thought everyone else is doing it.

[IrishBASTARD]

He didn't know carving into a shelter was wrong. Sorry but he knew it was wrong and did it because he thought everyone else is doing it.
EXACTLY, but if everyone did it, we would surely have tooth picks, where the shelters once stood. He knew better to do it, and blamed others who couldnt defend themselves. Say put the name in a journal, oddly though he posted a picture here, knowing full well the outcome, and pleading ignorance. Though I do find irony in all this, as sadly he does have frostbite, though he is a strong believer in the Bible and Christ Our Lord, perhaps an eye for an eye, who is truly to say.

[rocketsocks]

EXACTLY, but if everyone did it, we would surely have tooth picks, where the shelters once stood. He knew better to do it, and blamed others who couldnt defend themselves. Say put the name in a journal, oddly though he posted a picture here, knowing full well the outcome, and pleading ignorance. Though I do find irony in all this, as sadly he does have frostbite, though he is a strong believer in the Bible and Christ Our Lord, perhaps an eye for an eye, who is truly to say.Wait, so Moses should have been brought before Medusa....say what!

[HikerMom58]

LOL... that's seriously hard to believe. Almost like saying I beat my girl friend, but she deserved it.

Again... you don't have to believe him... your choice. People will make excuses for their behavior..... true.

In the example you gave, they sometimes believe their own lies. You have to have serious issues going on to beat up on another person. I'll continue my thoughts to Rasty....




He didn't know carving into a shelter was wrong. Sorry but he knew it was wrong and did it because he thought everyone else is doing it.

Sorry but if he realized that it was wrong/acceptable -why would he have posted a pic of it on his TJ? Now, you are having to believe that he is a smart ass, on and on....
There are MANY people on this site that don't feel that carving is a shelter is wrong. Just like mooning or whatever.

I honestly don't believe he thought it was wrong/unacceptable. He said he didn't. After everyone jumped on him & told him why they were offended and why they thought it was wrong, he agreed and apologized to everyone.

"Sorry but he knew it was wrong and did it because he thought everyone else is doing it."

How in the world can anyone make a bold statement like this? It's like saying- I have the power to get inside someone's head and know exactly what they are thinking.....
If you take this position, you would have to look him in the eye & tell him he's a liar.....I don't believe he's lying.

[Rasty]

LOL... that's seriously hard to believe. Almost like saying I beat my girl friend, but she deserved it.

Again... you don't have to believe him... your choice. People will make excuses for their behavior..... true.

In the example you gave, they sometimes believe their own lies. You have to have serious issues going on to beat up on another person. I'll continue my thoughts to Rasty....




He didn't know carving into a shelter was wrong. Sorry but he knew it was wrong and did it because he thought everyone else is doing it.

Sorry but if he realized that it was wrong/acceptable -why would he have posted a pic of it on his TJ? Now, you are having to believe that he is a smart ass, on and on....
There are MANY people on this site that don't feel that carving is a shelter is wrong. Just like mooning or whatever.

I honestly don't believe he thought it was wrong/unacceptable. He said he didn't. After everyone jumped on him & told him why they were offended and why they thought it was wrong, he agreed and apologized to everyone.

"Sorry but he knew it was wrong and did it because he thought everyone else is doing it."

How in the world can anyone make a bold statement like this? It's like saying- I have the power to get inside someone's head and know exactly what they are thinking.....
If you take this position, you would have to look him in the eye & tell him he's a liar.....I don't believe he's lying.

I'm comfortable with my position on this.

[HikerMom58]

I'm comfortable with my position on this.

That's mighty judgemental of you.....

[Rasty]

I'm comfortable with my position on this.

That's mighty judgemental of you.....

Sorry but he lied. Sometimes it is that simple.

[Lone Wolf]

he knew damn well what he was doing was wrong. just another 20 something-year-old messin' up

[The Cleaner]

I went up to Jerry's Cabin shelter last Friday to clean-up and met 4 thru hikers.I asked them if they had heard the Rifle saga.They said yes and that a USFS Ranger was looking for him.Since this happened several weeks ago maybe he is no longer an active case.Or maybe one of the reasons he hasn't posted anything lately......

[TD55]

Some of you should consider coming out of the "I'm always right" bubble. Not everyone thinks carving their name on a secluded box in the woods is a major crime, or even wrong. Folks have been doing it for longer than most of you have even known what an AT shelter was. Some folks just like to bully on this site.

[Lone Wolf]

Some of you should consider coming out of the "I'm always right" bubble. Not everyone thinks carving their name on a secluded box in the woods is a major crime, or even wrong. Folks have been doing it for longer than most of you have even known what an AT shelter was. Some folks just like to bully on this site.
vandalism is wrong dude. ain't nothin' "bullying" about saying he was wrong

[bfayer]

+1 to LW.

I will give the kid some slack because he did put out a public apology, so I'm good with him and wish him the best if he gets back on the trail.

Any 10 year old with half a brain knows vandalizing public property is wrong. To argue that there are people out there that don't know its wrong is just silly.

[Ender]

Guys, this thread, and this issue, are well over two months old now. The kid messed up, and then apologized for messing up. Let's just move on already.

[MDSection12]

A long distance hike is a long distance hike. While some may consider it a vacation, I don't think walking 15-20 miles a day is a vacation. It may be time away from a paying job (if you have one) but it's still a lot of work.

A vacation to me is car camping at a national park, sitting on a tropical beach, or visiting museums in Europe.

YMMV.
Why in these discussions do people always forget that words have definitions? We don't need you to tell us what a vacation is, there is an objective definition of the word we can use...

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vacation

Seems to me a thru-hike is absolutely a vacation. In fact, if you thru-hike and take a week off to do something else then you'd be taking a vacation from your vacation. That doesn't devalue a thru-hike, it's just a simple fact. :)

[Pingus]

Maybe its a south verses north thing. One time years ago I stopped to help a guy in GA with a broken down car. Once we got the car running, he offered me a $20 and I said no thank you. He tried to give it to me again and I said no again. At that point he got very angry and tried to shove it in my pocket, I went from being his best friend to worst enemy in 30 seconds.

I was born and raised in Michigan and that was one of my first trips down south. Since then I have learned if a southern gentleman tries to give you something, you take it and smile. The same rule applies to southern ladies and food :)

When I take my kids back up north (both born and raised down here), they always ask me "why are people up here so rude". I just smile and tell them "they're not rude, just another flavor of nice"
One of the best posts I've ever read, on any site. :)

[HikerMom58]

Sorry but he lied. Sometimes it is that simple.

You don't know that he lied.. there's no way you can know that. I won't say that he didn't lie because I don't know that for a fact.. All I'm saying is I believe him. Ya'll are calling him a liar... I'm not. I don't know what I dislike worse... liars or people who judge others...

Rasty, you can say that you don't believe him.. I'm fine with that. When you say emphatically that he lied, you are just taking this whole thing to a different level.

[Rasty]

Sorry but he lied. Sometimes it is that simple.

You don't know that he lied.. there's no way you can know that. I won't say that he didn't lie because I don't know that for a fact.. All I'm saying is I believe him. Ya'll are calling him a liar... I'm not. I don't know what I dislike worse... liars or people who judge others...

Rasty, you can say that you don't believe him.. I'm fine with that. When you say emphatically say that he lied, you are just taking this whole thing to a different level.

He's fairly intelligent as evident from his trail journal. If he's smart enough to write a trail journal then one could assume he knows right from wrong and chose wrong. Pretending to not know vandalism is wrong is just silly.

[MDSection12]

He didn't know that it is wrong to carve his name into something that did not belong to him... Seriously?

[ChinMusic]

You don't know that he lied.. there's no way you can know that. I won't say that he didn't lie because I don't know that for a fact.. All I'm saying is I believe him. Ya'll are calling him a liar... I'm not. I don't know what I dislike worse... liars or people who judge others...

Rasty, you can say that you don't believe him.. I'm fine with that. When you say emphatically that he lied, you are just taking this whole thing to a different level.
This .......

[bfayer]

Hey guys, I think at this point if we are going to keep talking about this we should start a "trail vandalism" thread and let this one die.

This guy is probably off the tail, and there is no value in keeping this going in his name.

[Malto]

Guys, this thread, and this issue, are well over two months old now. The kid messed up, and then apologized for messing up. Let's just move on already.

:clap Exactly!

[HikerMom58]

He's fairly intelligent as evident from his trail journal. If he's smart enough to write a trail journal then one could assume he knows right from wrong and chose wrong. Pretending to not know vandalism is wrong is just silly.


He didn't know that it is wrong to carve his name into something that did not belong to him... Seriously?

:datzSeriously... when you are out in the woods & come across a wooden structure for public use AND you have seen graffiti plus other carvings all over the place. One may not stop to really think about not doing it yourself or realize that it's really not the right thing to do(wrong) or may even be unlawful. Not everyone thinks alike.

I cannot believe that this is a hard concept to consider.

I know this is hard one for y'all but even if someone thinks about all those things... ready... they might decide to do it anyway and never consider apologizing for it at all. When he apologized, I realized he was TEACHABLE. Teachable is the ability to realize you might not be right , all the time, and have the balls to admit it.

[MDSection12]

:datzSeriously... when you are out in the woods & come across a wooden structure for public use AND you have seen graffiti plus other carvings all over the place. One may not stop to really think about not doing it yourself or realize that it's really not the right thing to do(wrong) or may even be unlawful. Not everyone thinks alike.

I cannot believe that this is a hard concept to consider.

I know this is hard one for y'all but even if someone thinks about all those things... ready... they might decide to do it anyway and never consider apologizing for it at all. When he apologized, I realized he was TEACHABLE. Teachable is the ability to realize you might not be right , all the time, and have the balls to admit it.

I have no problem with Rifle at this point. He goofed, it happens. I have a problem with someone who has never met him (assumption here) fighting for his right to be inconsiderate, on the web two months later. So he caught some grief on the web, big deal. This thread would have died a long time ago if people didn't feel the need to make excuses on his behalf.

[max patch]

I went up to Jerry's Cabin shelter last Friday to clean-up and met 4 thru hikers.I asked them if they had heard the Rifle saga.They said yes and that a USFS Ranger was looking for him.Since this happened several weeks ago maybe he is no longer an active case.Or maybe one of the reasons he hasn't posted anything lately......

The ATC would like this to somehow be used as a learning experience for future hikers. As the incident happened on FS lands it is the FS that makes the call as to what the end result will be.

[Pingus]

Cubby '08 ...

[Sly]

Some of you should consider coming out of the "I'm always right" bubble. Not everyone thinks carving their name on a secluded box in the woods is a major crime, or even wrong. Folks have been doing it for longer than most of you have even known what an AT shelter was. Some folks just like to bully on this site.

Like I said some people beat their wives and girls friends, they don't think it's wrong and have been doing it for eons. It doesn't make it right, and it doesn't make one a bully for pointing it out.

[Pingus]

Like I said some people beat their wives and girls friends, they don't think it's wrong and have been doing it for eons. It doesn't make it right, and it doesn't make one a bully for pointing it out.

Very well said.

[Sly]

Why in these discussions do people always forget that words have definitions? We don't need you to tell us what a vacation is, there is an objective definition of the word we can use...

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vacation

Seems to me a thru-hike is absolutely a vacation. In fact, if you thru-hike and take a week off to do something else then you'd be taking a vacation from your vacation. That doesn't devalue a thru-hike, it's just a simple fact. :)

Try again...

A thru-hike is not a respite and restful time at the beach and activity is not suspended. Most people quit so it's not time granted by an employee.

[Rasty]

Why in these discussions do people always forget that words have definitions? We don't need you to tell us what a vacation is, there is an objective definition of the word we can use...

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vacation

Seems to me a thru-hike is absolutely a vacation. In fact, if you thru-hike and take a week off to do something else then you'd be taking a vacation from your vacation. That doesn't devalue a thru-hike, it's just a simple fact. :)

A thru-hike is not a restful time at the beach and activity is not suspended.

Read definition #3. A thru hike sounds like a period of travel.

[Lone Wolf]

still a vacation though

[Sly]

Read definition #3. A thru hike sounds like a period of travel.

It does?


a period spent away from home or business in travel or recreation <had a restful vacation at the beach>


Lots of people spend time away from home or business without being on vacation, ig students. Thru-hikers carry their home on their back, and it's certainly business like* to hike from Georgia to Maine.

*: serious activity requiring time and effort and usually the avoidance of distractions <got down to business>

[Sly]

still a vacation though

Shhh...

20330

[Lone Wolf]

Shhh...

20330

whatever shhh means and your link won't open up

[Pingus]

whatever shhh means and your link won't open up

I thought it was just me.

[Rasty]

Read definition #3. A thru hike sounds like a period of travel.

It does?

a period spent away from home or business in travel or recreation <had a restful vacation at the beach>

Lots of people spend time away from home or business without being on vacation, ig students.

It fits the spirit of the word. Hiking is how most of us spend our vacations. I'm not at work and am spending time traveling. If it's not vacation can you write my employer a letter so I can get my vacation hours back? :)

[TD55]

Like I said some people beat their wives and girls friends, they don't think it's wrong and have been doing it for eons. It doesn't make it right, and it doesn't make one a bully for pointing it out.

Good lord, carvng a name on a shelter is on the same level as wife beating!

[Pingus]

Good lord, carvng a name on a shelter is on the same level as wife beating!
Not the same level at all. Just an analogy for the evolution of behavior.

[HikerMom58]

I have no problem with Rifle at this point. He goofed, it happens. I have a problem with someone who has never met him (assumption here) fighting for his right to be inconsiderate, on the web two months later. So he caught some grief on the web, big deal. This thread would have died a long time ago if people didn't feel the need to make excuses on his behalf.

So you are blaming me for keeping the thread going?

When I see he's being unfairly judged (no, I have never met him in person) I will stand up for him. It's ok for folks to drag his name through the mud, call him a liar. When someone types a lie ... I know he lied. Then, who do you really know is lying? One can say I think he is lying or I believe he is lying but to say one knows, for a fact, that someone is lying... Who is the liar in that case? I'm not that stupid.

KK and Marta were stating their opinion about Rifle some comments back. They have a right to their opinion. It just so happens, I didn't hold the same opinion. They said he purposely went on here for attention and then when he got attention, that he didn't like, he shut everyone out. I don't believe that's true. If that were true than the "shut out" would have been immediate and there would have been no apology. I have a right to express my opinion like everyone else. You can spin it any way you want too.

[Rasty]

Like I said some people beat their wives and girls friends, they don't think it's wrong and have been doing it for eons. It doesn't make it right, and it doesn't make one a bully for pointing it out.

Good lord, carvng a name on a shelter is on the same level as wife beating!

He is giving an example of people trying to justify their behavior with the excuse of ignorance.

[Sly]

Not the same level at all. Just an analogy for the evolution of behavior.


He is giving an example of people trying to justify their behavior with the excuse of ignorance.

Thank you.

[BirdBrain]

I have no problem with Rifle at this point. He goofed, it happens. I have a problem with someone who has never met him (assumption here) fighting for his right to be inconsiderate, on the web two months later. So he caught some grief on the web, big deal. This thread would have died a long time ago if people didn't feel the need to make excuses on his behalf.

That is the most incredible spin I have seen in weeks. This thread would never have existed if there wasn't so many hypocritical stone throwers trying to feel good about their morality by bashing a young man for a minor offense. If I understand this spin correctly, there is honor in bashing and dishonor in defending. Get a grip.

[Rasty]

I have no problem with Rifle at this point. He goofed, it happens. I have a problem with someone who has never met him (assumption here) fighting for his right to be inconsiderate, on the web two months later. So he caught some grief on the web, big deal. This thread would have died a long time ago if people didn't feel the need to make excuses on his behalf.

So you are blaming me for keeping the thread going?

When I see he's being unfairly judged (no, I have never met him in person) I will stand up for him. It's ok for folks to drag his name through the mud, call him a liar. When someone types a lie ... I know he lied. Then, who do you really know is lying? One can say I think he is lying or I believe he is lying but to say one knows, for a fact, that someone is lying... Who is the liar in that case? I'm not that stupid.

KK and Marta were stating their opinion about Rifle some comments back. They have a right to their opinion. It just so happens, I didn't hold the same opinion. They said he purposely went on here for attention and then when he got attention, that he didn't like, he shut everyone out. I don't believe that's true. If that were true than the "shut out" would have been immediate and there would have been no apology. I have a right to express my opinion like everyone else. You can spin it any way you want too.

I didn't lie about vandalizing a shelter. I knew better then that as a young child. I'm sorry that you cannot grasp the concept of right and wrong and continue to make excuses for poor behavior.

[BirdBrain]

Last comment on this thread. Yes it was wrong. The continued discussion of this young man's character is out of proportion to the offense. I have done worse and so have you. I thank God that my sins are not laid bare for the world to scrutinize. I think there would be no place on earth for me to live if they were.

Is there an ignore thread button?

[Alligator]

Last comment on this thread. Yes it was wrong. The continued discussion of this young man's character is out of proportion to the offense. I have done worse and so have you. I thank God that my sins are not laid bare for the world to scrutinize. I think there would be no place on earth for me to live if they were.

Is there an ignore thread button?I can help you out if you are unable to prevent yourself from opening it up, reading it, and posting to it:(.

[max patch]

Last comment on this thread. Yes it was wrong. The continued discussion of this young man's character is out of proportion to the offense. I have done worse and so have you. I thank God that my sins are not laid bare for the world to scrutinize. I think there would be no place on earth for me to live if they were.

Is there an ignore thread button?

This may be the best post on this matter.

[rocketsocks]

I can think of four, No...5 places on this Earth where my name, and or X is etched, and in descending order of incidents.

1. A tree near where I live today (my pop marked a trail for us to find our way home)
2. Table at PJ's pancake house (it was encouraged by management..to this day)
3. The Swinging Bridge (abridge build by the Boy scouts and is a local hang out for decades, carved before going to see the midnight movie Jimi Hendrix 79')
4. My night stand as a child (took apart my Robbie the Robot and used a sharp metal battery clip retainer to etch my name in the night stand, and when asked by my mother "did you write your name on your night stand" my answer was "I don't know who wrote my name in my night stand" a source of stories told to this day at family gathers and still brings a chuckle)
5. The apron in the driveway in the house where I was born (I was paid 25 cents by the workman to watch that night and make sure no one messed with, or wrote anything in the wet concrete for 24 hours, I didn't even know you could write your name in a medium such as this, it brought unique and earth shattering possibilities to my new and exciting career as a graffitiist).

Truth!

[bfayer]

4. My night stand as a child (took apart my Robbie the Robot and used a sharp metal battery clip retainer to etch my name in the night stand, and when asked by my mother "did you write your name on your night stand" my answer was "I don't know who wrote my name in my night stand" a source of stories told to this day at family gathers and still brings a chuckle)


So why did you feel the need to lie about it?

[treesloth]

Is there an ignore thread button?

I asked this question a while back. Some threads on here just won't die a rightful death. Sigh.

[rocketsocks]

So why did you feel the need to lie about it?Don't know, never really gave it that much thought...still don't..but I spose it was a fight or flight response, or flee and it wasn't me if you will.

[HikerMom58]

I didn't lie about vandalizing a shelter. I knew better then that as a young child. I'm sorry that you cannot grasp the concept of right and wrong and continue to make excuses for poor behavior.

That's you Rasty. I'm glad you had that concept as a young child... not everyone is like YOU. So... you can believe that he might not be lying, if you want too. He said he didn't realize it was wrong.. I believe him and I'm not stupid for believing him. I don't think you are stupid for NOT believing him. I think you are being judgmental. I still like you.