View Full Version : Condensation issues with tarp/tents?
AuntieSarah
01-27-2013, 02:02
I'm planning on mostly tenting on my upcoming thru, and I'm looking for a shelter system that is light weight (<27oz), simple to set up with trekking poles, and that provides a bit more protection than the typical tarp/bugnet setup that I'm used to...
I'm looking at shelters such as Henry Shire's Contrail/Notch, Lightheart Solo, and SixMoonDesign's Lunar Solo, but I'm not familiar with the humidity levels of the East Coast and I'm wondering: How do these handle condensation?
Also, I'm just wondering what you like/dislike about the shelter that you personally own/use, such as ones like these. And in case you're wondering why I'm not planning on using the tarp/bugnet system...I want more protection from rain and wind, and something that takes less time to set up since I'm planning on tenting as much as possible. Oh, if you have one of these that you're selling, let me know! :-)
Thanks in advance your help!
ChinMusic
01-27-2013, 02:21
I have owned the Lunar Solo and the LH Solo. I cannot comment on the HS tents. IMO, you can throw the Lunar Solo out of your choices. The LH is so superior in many ways.
All tents form condensation under the right conditions. With the LH being a double wall tent you just don't brush up against it when you move about. I also believe the LH has great ventilation to lessen condensation to begin with.
Well.... they are all good tents. I have a SMD Solo (and Duo), a Tarptent Rainbow, and a LH Solo as well.
The Lightheart Solo is my goto tent because it's made out of cuben fiber and weighs a pound. I do not like this design because it requires trekking poles with the pointy end up to be inserted into a support and I know that it is just a matter of time before I miss the hole in the support arm and poke a hole in the roof of the tent. Fortunately duct tape sticks to cuben fiber.
The Rainbow is the best design and if it were made out of cuben fiber it would be my goto tent. Of all the tents this is the one I would recommend most because it is about as bombproof as a single wall tent can get. I spent some nights in incredibly bad storms and it held up well. It will mist in hard rain and it's not your imagination....
The SMD Lunar solo is not a bad tent but it's a bit dated and there have been many innovations since it was first released. I never use mine. However, the SMD Lunar Duo is the best 2 person tent I could ever wish for.
They all form condensation, assuming you're alive and breathing. :) You will have to deal with it and my guess is that if you're attentive you'll notice that where you pitch your tent is the best way to deal with it. Stay high, in the wind, away from water, not in a grassy area or field, etc.
FWIW, camping on balds is a great way to go to sleep with a sunset and wake up with a sunrise but it means you're going to be carrying a wet tent the next day...
http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/tents/Trekker.html My tent.
bigcranky
01-27-2013, 09:49
The humidity does make a difference. We've owned three or four Tarptent brand shelters and one Six Moons Designs Lunar Duo. All of them will have condensation under the right conditions, sometimes a lot of it. Other nights they will be bone dry. (This is true of any tent and even a flat tarp.)
I carry a small pack towel and wipe down the inside of the tent if it's wet. I'll stop at lunch and lay out the tent to dry in the sun if needed. We don't let the condensation bother us. Having the interior room of a Lunar Duo for under 3 pounds is pretty sweet.
DeerPath
01-27-2013, 13:08
[QUOTE=ChinMusic;1402538] IMO, you can throw the Lunar Solo out of your choices.
Ditto.....
yellowsirocco
01-27-2013, 13:14
I can't think of a single time I have had condensation problems with my hammock.
When I do tent I leave the door as open as possible to get some fresh air in and help keep condensation down.
garlic08
01-27-2013, 13:38
My TT Contrail has over 6000 trail miles and a X-C bicycle trip on it and I'm about ready to replace it with another Contrail. Its rugged simplicity and low cost are still deciding factors.
Before the Contrail I used up an old TT Virga. Condensation is one fact of a single wall tent I learned to live with long ago. The tips above about site selection and wiping down and drying in the sun are all things I do too. One nice thing about silnylon is it dries in minutes in dry sunshine and wind, literally while you're standing there on a ridge holding it. It's hardly worth the time to find an anchor.
We have a LiteHeart duo and it is a good tent- some but minimum condensation ( above posts recommended ) and I use a mountain Laurel Designs solo tarp when I am by myself. It never has condensation issues but you have to have some tarp skills developed over time and practice to stay dry, but at 5 ozs it is my answer to the trade offs.
AuntieSarah
01-28-2013, 00:51
I have owned the Lunar Solo and the LH Solo. I cannot comment on the HS tents. IMO, you can throw the Lunar Solo out of your choices. The LH is so superior in many ways.
All tents form condensation under the right conditions. With the LH being a double wall tent you just don't brush up against it when you move about. I also believe the LH has great ventilation to lessen condensation to begin with.
Why not the Lunar Solo? I'm leaning towards LH Solo or TT Notch/Contrail but I'm curious what you prefer about LH and dislike about the LS.
AuntieSarah
01-28-2013, 01:28
random related question: For those of you who like to tent camp along the trail rather than use the shelters, did you ever find yourself having no choice but to use a shelter? And if you did, what did you do about mosquitos/blackflies? (were they a problem?) One big reason I'm considering the Notch is that I could just use the bugnet part in a trail shelter, whereas I could not do that with the Contrail and the LH Solo...Or is this a non-issue?
Why not the Lunar Solo? I'm leaning towards LH Solo or TT Notch/Contrail but I'm curious what you prefer about LH and dislike about the LS.
You didn't ask me but I'll answer anyway. :)
The Lunar Solo has a big footprint and has a learning curve for getting a good pitch. I think if you started at Springer with a Lunar Solo you'd still be finding better ways to pitch it when you got to Harper's Ferry. It's also less roomy than your other choices.
Another thing about the Lightheart Solo is that it's a long tent. When you unroll it to put it up you're going to need a pretty large (long) clear area. I've been in situations where I simply could not find a clear enough spot for it to lay flat and had to let the floor drape over something creating a bump in the floor that was somewhat annoying. That's mostly my fault because some nights I'm just too tired to search around for good tent sites, especially if it's dark.
One more consideration you might think about is whether the tent can be put up without stakes, AKA freestanding. That's very handy if you have to use a tent platform or or in an area where you can't get a stake in the ground. I know neither of the solos can be put up without stakes - not sure about the Notch or the Contrail. My TT Rainbow has a freestanding option.
bigcranky
01-28-2013, 10:42
random related question: For those of you who like to tent camp along the trail rather than use the shelters, did you ever find yourself having no choice but to use a shelter?
There are a couple of places the, in theory anyway, require you to stay in a shelter. Of course you could arrive at a shelter very late and totally exhausted, and find shelter space but no place to set up a tent, or seriously bad weather that drives you into the shelter. You could use the interior netting part of the Notch inside the shelter - but use it just like a bivy, not set up with poles and such. We did this with Hennessy hammocks one year at Low Gap when there were bees everywhere - just crawled inside from the bottom. But for the most part, the bugs are bad only in the summer, and that's when the weather is least likely to drive me inside a shelter. It would have to be *very* bad out for me to want to sleep in a shelter in, say, July.
AuntieSarah
01-28-2013, 11:26
You didn't ask me but I'll answer anyway. :)
The Lunar Solo has a big footprint and has a learning curve for getting a good pitch. I think if you started at Springer with a Lunar Solo you'd still be finding better ways to pitch it when you got to Harper's Ferry. It's also less roomy than your other choices.
Another thing about the Lightheart Solo is that it's a long tent. When you unroll it to put it up you're going to need a pretty large (long) clear area. I've been in situations where I simply could not find a clear enough spot for it to lay flat and had to let the floor drape over something creating a bump in the floor that was somewhat annoying. That's mostly my fault because some nights I'm just too tired to search around for good tent sites, especially if it's dark.
One more consideration you might think about is whether the tent can be put up without stakes, AKA freestanding. That's very handy if you have to use a tent platform or or in an area where you can't get a stake in the ground. I know neither of the solos can be put up without stakes - not sure about the Notch or the Contrail. My TT Rainbow has a freestanding option.
Thanks--this is exactly the kind of thoughtful advice I'm looking for. Lotsa factors to consider...I never thought that there'd be places where I'd not be able to use stakes...though I could probably tie off to rocks. Hmm. I use trekking poles so I was thinking I'd like to get a tent that uses those instead of tent poles.
At the end of the day all of your choices are good ones so you're not going to pick a "bad" tent. Any of the 3 will put you in the top 10% as far as having a lightweight tent that'll take you comfortably to Maine.
ChinMusic
01-28-2013, 12:03
Why not the Lunar Solo? I'm leaning towards LH Solo or TT Notch/Contrail but I'm curious what you prefer about LH and dislike about the LS.
There is NO WAY I would go back to the Lunar Solo after experiencing the LH Solo. Don't get me wrong, the Lunar Solo served me well for years, it's just that there are many designs that have relegated the Lunar Solo to the dust bin.
The Lunar Solo is fairly cramped for a solo with your head body often in contact with the walls when you move around. The other tents on your list will have condensation as well, but the Lunar Solo puts it right in your face. I was constantly using my camp towel to wipe down the walls. Not a big deal mind you, its just a task I do not have with my LH Solo. Sitting up in the Lunar Solo was not as easy either with the pointed peak.
Staking out the Lunar Solo is MUCH harder than the LH Solo. With the LH Solo you basically have 2 key stakes, and they are determined right away. If your stakes don't go into the ground right away it is an easy fix. The Lunar Solo has multiple key stakes. I can't count the times I have had to reset the Lunar Solo right when I was about done.
The only benefit of the Lunar Solo over the LH Solo would be if you hike with just one trekking pole.
Drybones
01-28-2013, 13:26
I have the TT Notch and couldn't be happier with it, I also have a TT Double Rainbow, Eureka Spifire 1, REI Quarterdome, 2-man No Limits, Big Agnes Emerald Mt. plus a couple of others...I say all that to show I have something to compare to. You will have condensation with any tent if it's humid and cold outside and your tent is warmer inside...carry a small towel and deal with it. The Notch takes only a few minutes to dry in the sun, if you're good you can pitch it in a minute, watch the video on the TT web site.
G-FOURce
01-28-2013, 20:18
I have the TT Notch and couldn't be happier with it, I also have a TT Double Rainbow, Eureka Spifire 1, REI Quarterdome, 2-man No Limits, Big Agnes Emerald Mt. plus a couple of others...I say all that to show I have something to compare to. You will have condensation with any tent if it's humid and cold outside and your tent is warmer inside...carry a small towel and deal with it. The Notch takes only a few minutes to dry in the sun, if you're good you can pitch it in a minute, watch the video on the TT web site.
I rolled the dice on a TT Rainshadow 2 and am hoping that both its roominess and excellent ventilation will help defeat excessive condensation. This option saved me THREE POUNDS of carry weight so even if I have to wipe it down each morning its still a win.
The biggest factor IMO is having enough room so that you can stay away from the inner tent surfaces. Then just wipe it down with a towel when needed.
I found treating my Contrail with silicone definitely helps with water repellancy and with condensation.
I own a Notch and used it on the AT last year. It has a full double wall, so you're less likely to get yourself wet from condensation on the outer fly. I just used a cut-down pack towel to wipe off the inside of the outer fly before packing up in the morning. And pitching to maximize ventilation helps avoid condensation issues. Sorry, not selling it!
tjkenney67
01-29-2013, 12:35
I found treating my Contrail with silicone definitely helps with water repellancy and with condensation.
Did this effect the properties of the material in anyway? And was one can enough. I have a rainbow and may try this. Anyone else have any experience with doing this to your tent?
Did this effect the properties of the material in anyway? And was one can enough. I have a rainbow and may try this. Anyone else have any experience with doing this to your tent?
I sprayed my Rainbow with it. It didn't affect the tent but it did add a few ozs of weight if I remember.
AuntieSarah
01-29-2013, 15:34
I found treating my Contrail with silicone definitely helps with water repellancy and with condensation.
So the water beads off better, which is cool, but how does this help with condensation inside the tent? Curious, how much weight did this add to your tent?
ChinMusic
01-29-2013, 15:48
So the water beads off better, which is cool, but how does this help with condensation inside the tent?
IMO it's not going to affect the ammout of condensation. It will make it form droplets which have a greater chance of falling on you.
Not a good idea in my book.
AuntieSarah
01-29-2013, 19:34
So it seems like any of these tents can handle condensation well. I've narrowed my choices to the Notch or LH Solo. Both are double walled. Both are nearly the exact same weight and comparable cost. Both are recommended. I'm terribly indecisive because I can see advantages to both: Could anybody help sway me?
For the Notch, I like that it has a removable mesh insert--I'm leaving in late March/early April so think I could use the tarp portion alone for maybe a month before the bugs become a problem (or am I wrong?), and during the rest of the time if I have to stay in a shelter I could use the mesh insert alone. This is the main reason I chose the Notch over the Contrail. It has pretty good views and ventilation. I like how big the vestibules are.
For the LH Solo, I like the set up. It's not as flexible as the Notch but it seems much easier/less finicky. The views are great.
The one downside to both of these options is the price. Cost and weight continue to be the biggest issues for me as I plan my hike. I'm trying to strike a balance between cheap and light. So here's one option I'm considering and would LOVE to know what you think of this idea: I'm used to going on backpacking trips with an old army bug net, 8x10' sil-nylon tarp, plastic groundcloth, and aluminum stakes. I know how to set it up in an A-frame or lean-to shape, though it takes a while and is somewhat finicky. It keeps me dry in N. MN for the most part though I do feel exposed sometimes. It weighs about the same or more than these tents. For about $50, I could lighten this system by using a Coghlan's Hiker's mosquito net, Tyvek groundsheet and titanium stakes and be as light or lighter than any of these tents. I'm thinking of doing this and then if I don't like it, I could buy a tent later on. But I wonder if I'm going to get tired of the hassle of setting up the tarp for weeks on end after exhausting days of hiking, dealing with the possibility of rain coming in, etc, and might be happier just biting the bullet and getting a tent now for the ease and convenience. If any experienced thru-hikers have any wisdom and insight on that I'd appreciate it. Thanks so much!!! :)
Sarah
Have you had a look at the notch set up video on the Notch product page ?
http://www.tarptent.com/notch.html
I'll shoot one myself in real time soon, no cuts, so that becomes a bit more obvious how long it takes. (not long...)
My videos are in the Franco Darioli channel at You Tube.
Better than Valium and free.
Well I shot the video..
Nice and sunny in Melbourne and I had nothing else to do.
Now I don't know if folk will perceive this set up to be hard or easy , but here it is :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJa5Mc36n7U&feature=youtu.be
Rocket Jones
01-30-2013, 07:46
Franco, would the Notch accomodate the handles on Pacer Poles (http://www.pacerpole.com/product/what-is-a-pacerpole)?
I asked that question to a Roger B who happens to use the Notch with Pacer Poles .Here is the reply :
"I use the poles with handles down, I have experimented with handles up but not happy that they will staying place in a strong breeze. The poles work fine as uprights, the only challenge is the attachment of the velcro floor to the pole handle as indicated in Henry's setup video. I found that the velcro was not long enough to going around the angled handles, so instead I attached the velcro to the cords attached to the handles, I then tighten the cordlock on the string to tension the floor which works quite well."
Henry now makes a "pocket" to hold the pole handle in place if used handle up (as I do...) but I don't think they will hold the Pacer type.
Rocket Jones
01-30-2013, 20:14
Thanks for the answer. I've tried using my Pacer Poles with a Double Rainbow in freestanding mode, but it was pretty unsteady. Attaching to the wrist cords sounds like a workable solution, since they're fairly substantial.
Yes, you can do that (use the strap) with the DR too, you just need longer pole extensions over the tip end.I used a curtain rail for that .
(carried a pole to the hardware store and found the size my tips fitted in , then cut the rod to size)
I had no trouble using the Notch with my Pacer Poles last year; I simply attached the velcro around the shaft of the poles just above the handle, instead of to the handle itself. Worked well for me.
Henry's Moment misted on me and the Rainbow had a splash issue. I think its better going with a double walled tent where condensation, misting and splashing are not issues. Otherwise I wouldn't considered it to be a shelter.