View Full Version : Max Patch Vandalism
4dogHiker
01-28-2013, 11:14
http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20130128/OUTDOORS/301280008/Forest-Service-seeking-Max-Patch-vandals
wornoutboots
01-28-2013, 11:27
That sucks but unfortunately not surprising : O ( I hope they catch those Loser & make an example out of them. Especially since there are probably hundreds of 4 wheeling roads available near by?
Coffee Rules!
01-28-2013, 11:44
Okay, where's Rifle?
Hey, SOMEONE had to. :p
rocketsocks
01-28-2013, 11:49
http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20130128/OUTDOORS/301280008/Forest-Service-seeking-Max-Patch-vandalsThose Bastages, you get em Max. Excellent use of the word "Carnsarnite"!
Okay, where's Rifle?
Hey, SOMEONE had to. :p
Really though, what would anyone do about it? Even IF these people get reported and caught, the fine is probably inconsequential. With these people ripping out equipment, they know exactly what they were doing. At the very least, an eye for an eye would do nicely here.
Coffee Rules!
01-28-2013, 12:03
Very true, leaftye. Probably little to no penalty IF they could even be caught and convicted.
hikernutcasey
01-28-2013, 12:17
This just turns my stomach. To think that someone would do something like that is just beyond me. The total lack of respect for such a beautiful place and total disregard for authority are qualities of the lowest level of human scumbags in my opinion. Unfortunately as others have said, it wouldn't do one bit of good to site and/or charge these idiots with anything because all that would await them is a light slap on the wrist.
It's a shame the state can't impound the vehicles and sell them for a profit.
At Carolina Beach in the beach 4x4 area there is a confiscation rule for driving in off limits areas. No one drives off limits anymore.
jimmyjam
01-28-2013, 13:31
What a shame. Why do some people have to such idiotic and stupid things?
hikernutcasey
01-28-2013, 13:36
What a shame. Why do some people have to such idiotic and stupid things?
People do idiotic and stupid things because they are idiotic and stupid.
"You can't fix a neutered dog. You can't fix garage doors, and look here... you can't fix stupid, Jack!" - Si Robertson
rocketsocks
01-28-2013, 13:38
At Carolina Beach in the beach 4x4 area there is a confiscation rule for driving in off limits areas. No one drives off limits anymore.We had some kids that did some damage to local golf coarse, not sure what the restitution was, but I'm sure it wasn't cheap. I would think property damage to a ( is it federal land?, the balds) would be pretty serious.
The article states that the damage done if approaching felony level, so they must anticipate a quite large restitution/penalty. Hope they are caught soon.
IrishBASTARD
01-28-2013, 14:05
SICKENING, feeling the wind and seeing the beauty, screw inpounding said pricey toys, if caught shoot them, and or at them. They are trespassing, and destroying federal land, you want to keep them out, make one an example and it won't happen again.
Train Wreck
01-28-2013, 14:31
SICKENING, feeling the wind and seeing the beauty, screw inpounding said pricey toys, if caught shoot them, and or at them. They are trespassing, and destroying federal land, you want to keep them out, make one an example and it won't happen again.
I agree. Impounding their toys, if caught, is perfectly justifiable.
SICKENING, feeling the wind and seeing the beauty, screw inpounding said pricey toys, if caught shoot them, and or at them. They are trespassing, and destroying federal land, you want to keep them out, make one an example and it won't happen again.
I agree. Impounding their toys, if caught, is perfectly justifiable.
It works also. Even the complete idiot doesn't want to loose the toy he financed for 60 months with easy credit. They are still responsible for the payments. Explain that to your spouse or parents.
Chaco Taco
01-28-2013, 15:12
This is nothing new. Its been a serious issue for quite awhile as has the trailhead vandalism. I have been on Max Patch 5-6 times and have noticed donut holes up there before, not on this scale. Its not a new issue for the open summits down south. The road at the end of Beauty Spot allows for folks to shoot right up the bald and tear up the sides of these hills.
Camel2012
01-28-2013, 16:44
Hate to see this.
I think it should be the same penalty as poaching game in the same spot. That would be fines, confiscation of property, and possible jail time. Seems logical to me.
WingedMonkey
01-28-2013, 16:53
Damn...that's about as ugly as a hiker feed on the middle of the trail on Max Patch.
turtle fast
01-28-2013, 17:01
Sounds like an example needs to be made and the stiffest penalty possible served along with a bill for the cost of repairing the landscape...then post that on the carsonite sign and then nail the next person whom tries to do it. It sucks but the only way to influence some groups of people learn is by hurting their wallet. Confiscation is a GREAT way to send a message two of three ATVs taken would send a clear message. BTW I do not have anything against ATVs...its just where they are doing their business.
Bunch a drunk hillbillys
Probably not. Idiotic behaviour is not defined by categories or class. ATV's are expensive.
Another Kevin
01-28-2013, 17:51
Not only are they tearing up the bald, but they're also going to provoke a disproportionate response. I can easily imagine the Forest Service simply deciding to close Max Patch to all humans, and rerouting the Trail around it, because of this.
I wonder how effective it would be if caltrops (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caltrop) were deployed strategically. I'll draw the line short of stretching barbed wire across the ATV track at neck height. I think.
atmilkman
01-28-2013, 18:01
I'll draw the line short of stretching barbed wire across the ATV track at neck height. I think.
This will work.
mtnkngxt
01-28-2013, 19:23
As someone who enjoys legal overland travel and exploring, crap like this really gets under my skin and gives the whole community a terrible name.
Lone Wolf
01-28-2013, 20:25
Damn...that's about as ugly as a hiker feed on the middle of the trail on Max Patch.
i agree by god!
restless
01-28-2013, 20:31
One of the problems when "Multi Use" and "Recreational" are used together.
Damn...that's about as ugly as a hiker feed on the middle of the trail on Max Patch.
i agree by god!
Did you actually look at the damage? A thousand hikers couldn't do that. And motor vehicles are banned from the mountain, what's wrong with you guys?
In his nearly 20 years as a volunteer Appalachian Trail maintainer at Max Patch, a beloved mountain bald in Madison County, Dwayne Stutzman has never seen such brazen, senseless vandalism.
Lone Wolf
01-28-2013, 21:05
calm down sport. just funnin' :cool:
BuckeyeBill
01-28-2013, 21:09
In addition to a fine and vehicle confiscation, how about 200 hours of service repairing the damage done. He or she might think twioce about tearing up things after having to fix it
calm down sport. just funnin' :cool:
Play Wolf too many times no one will take you serious! lol...
Tuckahoe
01-28-2013, 21:23
Did you actually look at the damage? A thousand hikers couldn't do that. And motor vehicles are banned from the mountain, what's wrong with you guys?
Yeah you're right, it would only take about 300 to 400 hikers to cause that much damage. Have you actually seen the damage 300 men marching over the same soggy ground can do in a matter of about 5 or 10 minutes? I know I have and it is pretty amazing how quickly the ground can be churned up.
Sarcasm the elf
01-28-2013, 21:23
I'll draw the line short of stretching barbed wire across the ATV track at neck height. I think.
This will work.
I know that you're both saying this just to blow off steam, but a few years back someone in my county actually stretched a rope at chest level across an ATV trail, it killed a thirteen year old.
Is this the same place where a hiker was almost ran over while sleeping in their tent at night?
atmilkman
01-28-2013, 21:35
I know that you're both saying this just to blow off steam, but a few years back someone in my county actually stretched a rope at chest level across an ATV trail, it killed a thirteen year old.
Yeah. You're right. Just blowin' off steam. It just pisses you off, ya know.
Sarcasm the elf
01-28-2013, 21:39
Yeah. You're right. Just blowin' off steam. It just pisses you off, ya know.
Trust me, I'm with 'ya.
I've got no problem with ATVs as long as they're on ATV trails, but the photos in the article showed a special kind of jackassary.
Tuckahoe
01-28-2013, 21:42
I wonder how effective it would be if caltrops (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caltrop) were deployed strategically. I'll draw the line short of stretching barbed wire across the ATV track at neck height. I think.
We can make them, how many do you want?
19327
rocketsocks
01-28-2013, 22:28
Sounds like an example needs to be made and the stiffest penalty possible served along with a bill for the cost of repairing the landscape...then post that on the carsonite sign and then nail the next person whom tries to do it. It sucks but the only way to influence some groups of people learn is by hurting their wallet. Confiscation is a GREAT way to send a message two of three ATVs taken would send a clear message. BTW I do not have anything against ATVs...its just where they are doing their business.Baliff...whack his Pee Pee
Tar Heel
01-28-2013, 23:13
Been to Max Patch many times, I live about 45 minutes from there, and it is a shame that anyone would deface such a beautiful place when there are many other options for them to ride on. I hope they catch them and prosecute to the fullest (which probably isn't enough).
rainmaker
01-29-2013, 00:04
The same thing has happened on the Foothills Trail between Bearcamp Creek and Horsepasture River. This section is in NC. If they can catch them in SC and get a conviction the perps will lose their vehicles.
Rifleman
01-29-2013, 00:22
http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20130128/OUTDOORS/301280008/Forest-Service-seeking-Max-Patch-vandals
It would be in interesting to find out why they did what they did. I have some notions but this isn't the forum for them.
Mountainsmike
01-29-2013, 00:36
It would be in interesting to find out why they did what they did. I have some notions but this isn't the forum for them.
Nice to see you post. I know you caused a big stir with your other post, but glad to see you have learned & manned up & apologized. Keep posting & have an awesome hike!
Mountainsmike
01-29-2013, 00:38
Nice to see you post. I know you caused a big stir with your other post, but glad to see you have learned & manned up & apologized. Keep posting & have an awesome hike!
Opps sorry, didn't look at your age. Not the person I was thinking of. Really sorry!
Tuckahoe
01-29-2013, 00:40
Nice to see you post. I know you caused a big stir with your other post, but glad to see you have learned & manned up & apologized. Keep posting & have an awesome hike!
I would bet that Rifleman and the young man that tagged the shelter are not the same individual.
atmilkman
01-29-2013, 00:43
I would bet that Rifleman and the young man that tagged the shelter are not the same individual.
His name is just rifle.
Another Kevin
01-29-2013, 00:54
I know that you're both saying this just to blow off steam, but a few years back someone in my county actually stretched a rope at chest level across an ATV trail, it killed a thirteen year old.
I did say I'd draw the line short of it. But a man can still mutter.
Sarcasm the elf
01-29-2013, 00:57
I did say I'd draw the line short of it. But a man can still mutter.
Trust me, I'm not in a position to criticize anyone else for muttering.
Mountainsmike
01-29-2013, 01:16
Yes I was wrong! Shame on me for not looking closer. Rifleman I apologize again!
Slo-go'en
01-29-2013, 01:36
Some pretty long streaches of the AT in NC were tore up by ATV's when I hike through there in the late 80's. It was hard not to day dream about making land mines....
As for why anyone would do that on Max Patch, obviously it was a lot of fun and you can bet they had a good buzz on at the time.
Mountainsmike
01-29-2013, 01:56
Same thing happens everywhere. On a trip on the Long Trail atv route crossed it. A bunch of atvers pulled up & the female I was with at the time was concerened because most were wearing guns. I told her they were just good old boys trying to have some fun & pointed out as opposed to trying to rev out of a muddy spot the winch on his atv would be easier & tear up the terrain less they agreed.19330 19331Even when one wanted to use a chipmunk for target practice, we managed to talk him out of it. It all ended well. They fed us & gave us some beers & hauled our trash & trash in the shelter to boot. I think we helped educate them some over lunch.
A few days while doing chores a pick up stopped beside us as we were walking in town. It was one of the group. He wanted to make sure we had a place to stay, & offered one if we didn't. It's not us against them, it's about education for all. Go in with a level head & you might make some progress. Go in arguing might mean a confrontation. You could eliminate the "Everyone else is doing it" mentality if you are civil. Many just follow the beaten path. If it's been done before, why not me? Be nice but set them straight if you have the chance. Maybe you educate some, if not walk on knowing you tried to make a difference. I did, & it worked.
BirdBrain
01-29-2013, 02:02
Yes I was wrong! Shame on me for not looking closer. Rifleman I apologize again!
Nice to see you post. I know you caused a big stir with your other post, but glad to see you have learned & manned up & apologized. Keep posting & have an awesome hike!
Could not help myself :).
ChuckBrown
01-29-2013, 03:14
Really though, what would anyone do about it? Even IF these people get reported and caught, the fine is probably inconsequential. With these people ripping out equipment, they know exactly what they were doing. At the very least, an eye for an eye would do nicely here.
In Massachusetts, back a while, they caught some teenage boys on the AT with atv's, they were charged and had to go in front of a judge. On top of a fine, the teens, along with at least one parent each, had to participate in day of trail maintenance with the local club. That day we built about thirty bog bridges, wich included hauling the materials down the trail.
Mountainsmike
01-29-2013, 03:18
In Massachusetts, back a while, they caught some teenage boys on the AT with atv's, they were charged and had to go in front of a judge. On top of a fine, the teens, along with at least one parent each, had to participate in day of trail maintenance with the local club. That day we built about thirty bog bridges, wich included hauling the materials down the trail.
That is awesome! A judge that makes a difference in a logical way! If you can find an article on it please post it.
Miami Joe
01-29-2013, 03:40
Castration is the obvious answer here.
Somewhat joking--and somewhat serious with this idea. It could be interesting if well armed individuals (armed with firearms and/or cameras--your choice) camped on/near Max Patch continually in shifts. Such people could be law enforcement people, small groups of National Guard--or concerned and well-trained volunteers.
mtnkngxt
01-29-2013, 06:29
Somewhat joking--and somewhat serious with this idea. It could be interesting if well armed individuals (armed with firearms and/or cameras--your choice) camped on/near Max Patch continually in shifts. Such people could be law enforcement people, small groups of National Guard--or concerned and well-trained volunteers.
To protect dirt? Seems a little over the top.
Hikes in Rain
01-29-2013, 07:29
We can make them, how many do you want?
19327
Hey, nice work. Those look good.
To protect dirt? Seems a little over the top.
No one is saying to shoot the vandals, although it'd probably an inconsequential loss to society if it happened.
Old Hillwalker
01-29-2013, 08:27
Well, when they get caught the case will be in Federal court and not local. Wonder if our two NPS LEO Rangers are in on this one? After working with them I would think they are.
To protect dirt? Seems a little over the top.
What if it were your front lawn, or where your parents were buried? What lengths would you go through to protect your property?
ChuckBrown
01-29-2013, 09:03
I did a google search for appalachian trail ATV and found this site that actually tells people to ride on the AT, and to contact ATC for info. I guess the guy who wrote it did not contact the ATC. They would have informed him about the no motorized vehicle rule.
http://www.atvstyle.com/appalachian-trail-map
Wise Old Owl
01-29-2013, 09:17
I looked at the site you mentioned, and the writer did not do his homework - but I thought the damage was due to trucks - not ATV.
Pedaling Fool
01-29-2013, 11:46
That's some really good soil aeration.:eek:
T.S.Kobzol
01-29-2013, 12:20
Judt post those motion triggered cameras the hunterd use. Right at the newly rebuilt gate. You will catch them without much expense and energy.
First of all, fix the law to incresse the punishment.
Sent from my SGH-T889 using Tapatalk 2
Put a two-by-four with a bunch of nails in it about ten feet inside the fence under the leaves.
You'll find the vehicle where it stops...
Probably not. Idiotic behaviour is not defined by categories or class. ATV's are expensive.
Agreed - some of the most idiotic behavior around where I live has been done by rich kids with nothing better to do than tear stuff up in their expensive sports cars that daddy buys.
Josh Calhoun
01-29-2013, 16:22
its a shame my first time through there i will see this.
Max Patch vandals caught...
http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20130215/OUTDOORS/302150028
19700
Damn...that's about as ugly as a hiker feed on the middle of the trail on Max Patch.
Yeah, sure it is. :rolleyes:
Lone Wolf
02-15-2013, 10:53
Max Patch vandals caught...
http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20130215/OUTDOORS/302150028
i was just gonna post this. i'm in Asheville and it's front page news
coach lou
02-15-2013, 10:57
Their fines won't even touch costs to repair.
I hope they get the max penalty, or close to it.
jimmyjam
02-15-2013, 11:09
That's good news. I hope they all get the maximum penalty. And they should be given shovels and rakes and made to restore it themselves.
WingedMonkey
02-15-2013, 11:35
Max Patch vandals caught...
http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20130215/OUTDOORS/302150028
19700
Yeah, sure it is. :rolleyes:
Yeah BOTH are ugly. But again ugly is in the eye of the beholder.
Their fines won't even touch costs to repair.
A federal magistrate can also order restitution. Although I can tell you from experience that they do not usually order enough to cover the actual costs.
Hopefully the U.S. attorney will take a hard line on this to set an example.
Have them maintain privies for 5 years, and maybe give them a shovel. :)
coach lou
02-15-2013, 12:11
A federal magistrate can also order restitution. Although I can tell you from experience that they do not usually order enough to cover the actual costs.
Hopefully the U.S. attorney will take a hard line on this to set an example.
Exactly.....let us hope that they do get fined heavly, but then where will the money go. Sad situation. I would need a link to work that southern trip into some time volunteered to help restore the area. I'm sure at some point after spring muds, something will be organized... a sad excuse for a road trip, but I will squeeze that in somehow.
Exactly.....let us hope that they do get fined heavly,...
Fines go to the general fund. Restitution goes where the magistrate says it goes, in this case the NFS I would hope. They can also order community service as part of a probation deal.
So what I would want to see is a probation deal with community service and a restitution order.
I wish they could order a property forfeiture, and take the vehicles and sell them at auction, but I don't believe they can do that for a federal misdemeanor.
Yeah BOTH are ugly. But again ugly is in the eye of the beholder.
While you may not like them, a hiker feed last for a few hours, or days, and except for the perception of solitude run amok, when over the area is none for the worse. The damage caused by the ATv's will last for years or months until it is repaired with undue cost to the taxpayer.
I wish they could order a property forfeiture, and take the vehicles and sell them at auction, but I don't believe they can do that for a federal misdemeanor.
I know (not personally) with some state hunting violations, guns and vehicles can, and have been confiscated along with jail time and/or heavy fines imposed. Whether the Feds can or will do this is another matter.
WingedMonkey
02-15-2013, 12:58
While you may not like them, a hiker feed last for a few hours, or days, and except for the perception of solitude run amok, when over the area is none for the worse. The damage caused by the ATv's will last for years or months until it is repaired with undue cost to the taxpayer.
I find the damage done to be offensive. I find the tearing down of fences and signs offensive, as I do the carving of graffiti into shelter walls.
As beautiful as the view from Max is, some people seeing the huge tractors hauling a mower around the mountain to keep the unnatural bald for our enjoyment may also be offended.
I know (not personally) with some state hunting violations, guns and vehicles can, and have been confiscated along with jail time and/or heavy fines imposed. Whether the Feds can or will do this is another matter.
Sine they were charged with a federal misdemeanor they can certainly be put in jail, but I have not seen that happen in a vandalism case on federal property.
But unfortunately forfeiture is not an option as far as I know unless it is a felony, or involves drugs.
Mountain Mike
02-15-2013, 17:00
Looks like they caught some of the vandals. http://www.citizen-times.com/article/20130215/OUTDOORS/302150028
rocketsocks
02-15-2013, 17:04
Good! give em a shovel and a steel rake, cause damn!...you can see that scare from space.
Pretty cool a ATV club is helping out as well, that's smooth!