Recommended midlayer top for April 1 start from Springer - fleece or down?

[Canam]

I'll be spending about 2 months on the AT starting April 1. This was recently decided so I have a lot of planning catch up to do - luckily I have a lot of free time right now.

Are there strong feelings either way whether fleece or down is the way to go for a midlayer during early to mid Spring in the south? I've never owned a down jacket, mostly because I hate the way they feel on me, but I'm seeing it on a lost of gear lists. I'm also concerned how well they hold up in the moisture.

There's a ton of information generally on gear lists (overwhelming at the moment), but it seems that clothing gets the least attention.

[aficion]

I've done fleece and been cold, though not dangerously so. I've never been cold with down. Obviously you must keep it dry. Down is lighter too and can be nice to have through May.

[bigcranky]

I like a nice down jacket. Starting in early April I'd take a lightweight fleece top, too, something like a microfleece zip tee. The down jacket can be something fairly light, like a Montbell UL Down Inner or Alpine Light.

I don't wear my down jacket while hiking, so getting it wet is not really an issue.

[Tinker]

I've done fleece and been cold, though not dangerously so. I've never been cold with down. Obviously you must keep it dry. Down is lighter too and can be nice to have through May.

"Obviously you must keep it dry"

What isn't so obvious is how ridiculously easy it is to get down damp from sweat if layered under the most "breathable" of "waterproof/breathable" jackets.

I go with a midweight fleece on my cool weather section hikes. If you have sewing skills, you can buy one from a local second hand store, preferably with a hood, and cut it to your measurements so that there isn't any extra fabric to carry.

Fleece is relatively heavy for the warmth that it provides when dry, but when wet, it can be wrung out by hand (no light touch necessary as with some ultralight synthetic filled garments) and be put right back on.

Try that with down. :eek: (all it does is ensure that whatever part is wet gets transferred to any part that is dry, so that the garment becomes uniformly damp :rolleyes:).

For extreme cold, I bring down, but I pack it with my sleeping bag and it doesn't come out in damp weather until secure shelter is handy.

[Tinker]

I should add that, in warmer weather you can still wear the fleece, allowing the wind to blow through it.

More importantly, you should always carry a windbreaker with fleece (unless it's windproof - which really means that only the inner layer is windproof - not worth the extra cash in my book)

Using a windbreaker with fleece will dramatically improve its warmth (and, of course, you can layer the windbreaker over any other garment you carry, making it very versatile).

[johnnybgood]

Not sure if you're like me,but I don't like sleeves and much more prefer wearing a down vest . Add a LW fleece top to a Montbell 650 fill down vest and you're all set .

[CarlZ993]

I wouldn't wear down while hiking the AT. I'd wear it when I was taking a break or at camp. I try to hike a little cool to prevent sweating too much. I'll carry a synthetic puffy jacket (already own it; don't want to spend more money on a down jacket after all the other stuff I've bought) as my primary insulation top. I won't hike with that jacket either. My normal layering while hiking in the cold is a wool short sleeve t-shirt, long-sleeve nylon hiking shirt, & rain jacket. If I anticipate really cold weather, I'll add a 'hiking long underwear shirt' (I'll have a dry, sleeping long underwear shirt also) and/or a fleece vest.

[hauptman]

Any basic 150-200 weight fleece top with no extra features in the 7-8 oz range from countless retailers will suffice. Simple, cheap, and warm when wet.

[Canam]

Thanks, everyone. Very helpful thoughts.

I've done many many day hikes, but this will be the first multiday trip I've done since I was a kid. Learning about the gear is a process.

[colorado_rob]

Call it overkill, but I will have both. A 9oz microfleece (100 weight, quarter zip neck), and a 9 oz MontBell down jacket. coupled with a light merino wool base layer (7 oz) and a dri-ducks outer jacket (6 oz) , these four layers make for all sorts of combinations for a very versatile system. Once I get to warmer times/climes, I'll readjust.

[Old Boots]

Wear fleece on the trail and change to down in camp.

[Smooth & Wasabi]

For your intended use I would say fleece. When I hear mid layer I think something you might be wearing while hiking and potentially under a wpb shell. Down would certainly not be appropriate for this. I take a "puffy" whether down or synthetic to keep me warm at rest stops, in camp, and as part of my sleep system but would never hike in it no matter how cold.

[prain4u]

Not sure if you're like me,but I don't like sleeves and much more prefer wearing a down vest . Add a LW fleece top to a Montbell 650 fill down vest and you're all set .

I have a fleece for hiking and general wear--and a down vest to put over the top for around camp on cool nights and mornings. I have even worn the down vest while sleeping when the weather suddenly turned much colder than expected.

[garlic08]

Any basic 150-200 weight fleece top with no extra features in the 7-8 oz range from countless retailers will suffice. Simple, cheap, and warm when wet.

A 200 weight fleece for 8 oz? Where?

[flemdawg1]

I have a Lands End SnowPack 700 Down Jacket that I generally always take, plus a Marmot DriClime windshirt. The windshirt I pretty much wear all day(unless its too warm), and just use the down jacket for morning chores or to bump up the insulation when sleeping (occasionally take a 40deg quilt when I think the temps will get down to low 30s and add the jacket + extra clothes for warmth). I don't wear the down jacket when its raining or while hiking.

[88BlueGT]

"Obviously you must keep it dry"

What isn't so obvious is how ridiculously easy it is to get down damp from sweat if layered under the most "breathable" of "waterproof/breathable" jackets.

I go with a midweight fleece on my cool weather section hikes. If you have sewing skills, you can buy one from a local second hand store, preferably with a hood, and cut it to your measurements so that there isn't any extra fabric to carry.

Fleece is relatively heavy for the warmth that it provides when dry, but when wet, it can be wrung out by hand (no light touch necessary as with some ultralight synthetic filled garments) and be put right back on.

Try that with down. :eek: (all it does is ensure that whatever part is wet gets transferred to any part that is dry, so that the garment becomes uniformly damp :rolleyes:).

For extreme cold, I bring down, but I pack it with my sleeping bag and it doesn't come out in damp weather until secure shelter is handy.

If you're sweating enough to cause your down jacket to become damp you should may want to consider removing it.

[Canam]

Thanks everyone. Decided to pick up a GoLite Demaree Canyon 800 down jacket and will bring a 9oz generic microfleece quarter zip I have in my closet. I'll see how it goes.

[Coosa]

Canam, weigh everything or you'll end up tossing in 'this and that' because 'they hardly weigh anything at all' ... and end up with a heavier pack than you imagined.

Happy hiking [I use a synthetic 'liner' style jacket and a midweight fleece thermal half zip tee.]

REMEMBER, if you're going HIKING, you're not going to sit around at camp at night. You'll hike, eat and go directly to your tent/sleeping bag. You're bringing the jacket more for extra warmth in the sleeping bag?

Coosa

[Canam]

Canam, weigh everything or you'll end up tossing in 'this and that' because 'they hardly weigh anything at all' ... and end up with a heavier pack than you imagined.

Happy hiking [I use a synthetic 'liner' style jacket and a midweight fleece thermal half zip tee.]

REMEMBER, if you're going HIKING, you're not going to sit around at camp at night. You'll hike, eat and go directly to your tent/sleeping bag. You're bringing the jacket more for extra warmth in the sleeping bag?

Coosa

As of now, my base weight is hovering around 15lbs. I'm pretty happy with that, so I'll take both the microfleece and the down jacket to see what works for me. It's one of the few redundancies I have, and I'll send something back if it's not worth it.

[Tinker]

Thanks everyone. Decided to pick up a GoLite Demaree Canyon 800 down jacket and will bring a 9oz generic microfleece quarter zip I have in my closet. I'll see how it goes.

If you can get a full zip fleece at the local goodwill, you will find that the versatility is well worth it over a 1/4 zip. They are good for ski lodges and in town, though many gram weenies will disagree (until they try pushing the comfort range of their favorite insulative jacket) and then they will still disagree because they feel the need to defend the intelligence of their purchase. I've been one of them and have since repented.
:rolleyes:

[Carl Calson]

prima loft!

[hikingshoes]

I enjoy this my columbia short sleeve next to my skin with a MH long sleeve shirt(if needed). to block the wind i use my NF rain jacket. Once at camp i chg into dry baselayer, plus my Down vest or jacket. It works for me but we all are different. HS

[Tinker]

prima loft!

Not bad, but

1) Cannot be used without the shell (actually 2 - 1 inside and 1 outside). Makes it less versatile than fleece + wind shirt. It may be too warm in many cases. If your fleece + shell is too warm you can either 1) Take off the shell and let the breezes flow through, or 2) Wear the shell with a thinner garment (like basic polyester long underwear) under it.

2) If it gets soaked and wrung dry, it loses much of its loft and warmth. Fleece bounces back to near 100% of its loft.

3) Since fleece without a shell is very porus and a poor wind stopper, it can dry much more quickly than any insulation built into a shell.

4) Side-by-side tests have proven that Primaloft absorbs more water than some less expensive competitors (like Polarguard). That's why I decided to go the Polarguard route when I decided to try a lightweight, shelled, synthetic jacket (Golite Coal) - I hardly use it anymore - have gone back to fleece + wind sell.

This is not to say that Primaloft is bad - this (like many of my posts) is just to expand the box that many people would do well to think outside of.;)

Advertising is brainwashing of the sneakiest kind. The advertising angency is in the business of making money by telling the public what their client wants them to believe and avoiding that which their client does not want them to believe.

Then the info is prepackaged into a tasty looking morsel without full disclosure of the ingredients.

Fwiw: I have noted in previous posts that fleece is both heavier and bulkier than many of the "ultralight" garments available today.

It is, however, much more versatile, has some superior performance characteristics, in most cases is more durable, and is generally dirt cheap. :)

[Paul Barnwell]

Hi! I will also be doing a 2-2.5 month AT hike starting April 1 at Springer...and had the exact same question as you. The choices are daunting.
I decided to go with a SmartWool SportKnit Sweater...and have an eddie bauer thin rain jacket, not sure what kind. I'm not sure whether it was the best choice, but had to make one eventually.
There is an awesome sale on right now for some good options, Expires today.:
http://email.sierratradingpost.com/dm?id=9209C6E7250AFA67F83A0275ADED1465

[Coosa]

READ what Sgt Rock says here http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/content.php?190-Cheap-Gear-%96-How-to-Dirt-Bag-and-Deal-Shop-Like-a-Professional

Best Choice is SELECTIVE ... it may be your best choice and not someone else's. And THEIR best choice may not work for you.

Read the article ... it's excellent. And I wasn't paid a thing to say that.

Coosa