View Full Version : Privyless Shelters
It seems to me, that if a trail entity undertakes to erect and maintain, a shelter along the trail, that they would be required by the powers that be, to provide and maintain a privy as well. As has been clearly and inarguably demonstrated in the Great Smoky Mountains National Park, putting up shelters with no privies leads to a big mess. The shelter areas have been trashed by people who are required to either stay in the shelter or camp beside it, and have been provided with no central facility to deposit their bodily wastes into. Individual catholes will only be satisfactory with dispersed camping, period. It is not just the Smokies, though they stand out due to their policy of no dispersed camping, and now fees for campers. There are other privyless shelters outside the park that have surface problems as well. A shelter is a human aggregation unit. It becomes a surface feces, urine, and toilet paper aggregation unit without a privy. Nastiness in our woods sponsored by those preaching leave no trace. I really don't get it. What am I missing here?
Sarcasm the elf
02-01-2013, 23:05
You're not the one who's missing the point.
Maybe if they save up enough $4 per night fees, it will buy them some mouldering privys
You're not the one who's missing the point.
Maybe if they save up enough $4 per night fees, it will buy them some mouldering privys
That is a great big maybe when they admit to not even covering the cost of instituting and and administering the fee with said fees. Must be a loss leader.
Sarcasm the elf
02-01-2013, 23:21
That is a great big maybe when they admit to not even covering the cost of instituting and and administering the fee with said fees. Must be a loss leader.
Trust me, I won't hold my breath (unless I'm walking past the minefield next to a privyless shelter)
Carl Calson
02-02-2013, 00:10
so much toilet paper blowing in the wind. pretty disgusting up there in the smokys
Chaco Taco
02-02-2013, 00:37
so much toilet paper blowing in the wind. pretty disgusting up there in the smokys
Totally agree
Its the opposite here. People squat off the ends of tent platforms and crap. You dont even get a courtesy hole. Just a pile of turds. And it happens at places with privies. You can put all the privies up you want, but folks will still crap in the worst of places and nowhere near within the etiquette that is requested of hikers and overnight backpackers.
Perfect example. Ethan Pond this summer. I stepped in 2 piles of human crap off the side of the tent plaforms as I was setting up, in the rain. Found 3 other spots scattered around. The privy had just been dried and sifted too so it was all fresh and cleaned up. I hate being on Franconia and seeing a wad of toilet paper rolled up and crammed under the alpine moss and rocks along the ridge. Some folks dont know better or just dont really give 2 s***s
just think how many AT privies, shelters, bridges, etc could be bought with the $$$ spent on of one of those F16s we're giving Egypt... (drat, not supposed to talk about that, leave that for the fireside chat one nite)
Sarcasm the elf
02-02-2013, 03:44
just think how many AT privies, shelters, bridges, etc could be bought with the $$$ spent on of one of those F16s we're giving Egypt... (drat, not supposed to talk about that, leave that for the fireside chat one nite)
I'm sure LW would say: Just think of how many AT privies and shelters could be demolished using just one of those F16s..." :eek:
Mountain Mike
02-02-2013, 06:34
Totally agree
Its the opposite here. People squat off the ends of tent platforms and crap. You dont even get a courtesy hole. Just a pile of turds. And it happens at places with privies. You can put all the privies up you want, but folks will still crap in the worst of places and nowhere near within the etiquette that is requested of hikers and overnight backpackers.
Perfect example. Ethan Pond this summer. I stepped in 2 piles of human crap off the side of the tent plaforms as I was setting up, in the rain. Found 3 other spots scattered around. The privy had just been dried and sifted too so it was all fresh and cleaned up. I hate being on Franconia and seeing a wad of toilet paper rolled up and crammed under the alpine moss and rocks along the ridge. Some folks dont know better or just dont really give 2 s***s
I hate to hear that. Ethan Pond was one of my favorite campsites. I worked my butt off one year helping with the helicopter drops to bring in materials for the composting privy there many years ago. 3 out of the 4 pilot landed it in the clearing right in front of the shelter & we had to clear it out before he got back before next drop. One was overweight & he had to drop it on the rocks at the stream before you get to it. Over 3,200 lbs of material.
rocketsocks
02-02-2013, 06:54
just think how many AT privies, shelters, bridges, etc could be bought with the $$$ spent on of one of those F16s we're giving Egypt... (drat, not supposed to talk about that, leave that for the fireside chat one nite)
I'm sure LW would say: Just think of how many AT privies and shelters could be demolished using just one of those F16s..." :eek:That is freakin hilarious....good one Elf!
Lone Wolf
02-02-2013, 08:16
I'm sure LW would say: Just think of how many AT privies and shelters could be demolished using just one of those F16s..." :eek:
hehehehe :cool:
2NewKnees
02-02-2013, 09:14
Totally agree
Its the opposite here. People squat off the ends of tent platforms and crap. You dont even get a courtesy hole. Just a pile of turds. And it happens at places with privies. You can put all the privies up you want, but folks will still crap in the worst of places and nowhere near within the etiquette that is requested of hikers and overnight backpackers.
Perfect example. Ethan Pond this summer. I stepped in 2 piles of human crap off the side of the tent plaforms as I was setting up, in the rain. Found 3 other spots scattered around. The privy had just been dried and sifted too so it was all fresh and cleaned up. I hate being on Franconia and seeing a wad of toilet paper rolled up and crammed under the alpine moss and rocks along the ridge. Some folks dont know better or just dont really give 2 s***s
That's just freaking sad. Some people are just worthless.
bear bag hanger
02-02-2013, 09:57
Privies take a lot of money and volunteer time and have to be maintained on a regular basis. The primary reason a shelter doesn't have a privy near by is lack of volunteers to maintain it once it's built. It's not like a shelter that can be built and then pretty much forgotten about. If you are in an area in which there aren't enough privies, then I suggest you join the local trail maintaining club and help them out.
Lone Wolf
02-02-2013, 09:59
Privies take a lot of money and volunteer time and have to be maintained on a regular basis. The primary reason a shelter doesn't have a privy near by is lack of volunteers to maintain it once it's built.
perhaps new shelters should not be built. there's no need for new shelters anyway. refurbish the ones in existance
Bucketfoot
02-02-2013, 10:15
+ one to what bear bag hanger posted. Too many hikers think the trail is funded and maintained by our all caring government. If not for the local trail clubs there would be a lot fewer shelters and sanitary conditions would be a lot worse. It's no coincidence that the worse trail and sanitary conditions are found on the parts of the trail That the NPS has a direct connection too.
WingedMonkey
02-02-2013, 10:18
just think how many AT privies, shelters, bridges, etc could be bought with the $$$ spent on of one of those F16s we're giving Egypt... (drat, not supposed to talk about that, leave that for the fireside chat one nite)
If that's the case then we could build a whole new trail with what we ship to Israel.
fredmugs
02-02-2013, 10:44
I rarely take dumps on a hiking trip (every 3rd day maybe) and I don't think I've ever used a privy. When I do go it pretty much sneaks up on me and I don't have a lot time to find a spot. Of course you're not going to step in where I do my business either.
One of the big problems of the lack of privies in some areas of the AT is the required maintanance. Trail clubs that maintain various sections do not have enough voulunters to maintain the foot path and also privies. The folks who hike the AT on sections that do not have privies are not using proper hiker procedures for human waste management in back woods areas. Digging a cat hole and covering it properly.
I hate to say this but woman are the biggest offenders for leaving toilet paper along the trail. A male will just pee in back of a tree and leave no trace. A woman will pee in the woods and just leave the toilet paper.
2NewKnees
02-02-2013, 11:08
The issue is in the Smokies is there needs to be privies built at the shelters b/c they don't allow dispersed camping. Seems to me that with all the traffic they get there, they could build some privies which would help eliminate the problem. Digging a cathole is not that big a deal, having time to do it may be a problem sometimes. And finding an area close to camp where nobody has dug one is an issue sometimes. I don't think it is section hikers that are the problem either b/c they typically would plan a little better for the trip and are more experienced than your weekend over nighter.
The issue is in the Smokies is there needs to be privies built at the shelters b/c they don't allow dispersed camping. Seems to me that with all the traffic they get there, they could build some privies which would help eliminate the problem. Digging a cathole is not that big a deal, having time to do it may be a problem sometimes. And finding an area close to camp where nobody has dug one is an issue sometimes. I don't think it is section hikers that are the problem either b/c they typically would plan a little better for the trip and are more experienced than your weekend over nighter.
The problem with catholes around shelters is that you end up with catholes in previous catholes and the area just gets trashed. Then they want you to pitch your tent in the filth if the shelter is full. No thanks.
Lone Wolf
02-02-2013, 11:23
shelters are for newbies and lazy folks. experienced folks camp elsewhere
shelters are for newbies and lazy folks.
experienced folks camp elsewhere
except in the smokies is the point.
[QUOTE=mcstick;1407730]except in the smokies is the point.[/QUOTE
Experienced folk can and do camp elsewhere, even in the Smokies from time to time. Not advocating, just sayin.
Privies take a lot of money and volunteer time and have to be maintained on a regular basis. The primary reason a shelter doesn't have a privy near by is lack of volunteers to maintain it once it's built. It's not like a shelter that can be built and then pretty much forgotten about. If you are in an area in which there aren't enough privies, then I suggest you join the local trail maintaining club and help them out.
The trail through here is well maintained and the volunteers plentiful. The privy At the Punch Bowl Shelter is a nice big new one. Ottie enjoys haunting it almost as much as the shelter. I do most of my volunteering at the food pantry. They have indoor plumbing.
NPS should build and maintain privies in the Smokies since they are the ones that mandate you stay in the shelters or camp nearby.
Slo-go'en
02-02-2013, 12:08
Having to poop in the woods gives the tourists the full wilderness experiance. It also eliminates the need to maintain the privy, which is likely the real reason. Maybe *some* experianced folks camp else where, but a lot sure do like shelters just fine too.
perhaps new shelters should not be built. there's no need for new shelters anyway. refurbish the ones in existance
Which is what they did with the shelters in the Smokys.
The problem with catholes around shelters is that you end up with catholes in previous catholes and the area just gets trashed. Then they want you to pitch your tent in the filth if the shelter is full. No thanks.
It's not the problem of catholes. If people followed proper guidelins hitting another cathole would be like finding a needle in a hay stack.
Deposit solid human waste in catholes dug 6 to 8 inches deep, at least 200 feet from water, camp and trails. Cover and disguise the cathole when finished.
It's not the problem of catholes. If people followed proper guidelins hitting another cathole would be like finding a needle in a hay stack.
When you are supposed to both ***** and camp within that distance of the shelter there becomes a problem. Look around any shelter along the AT in the Smokies during March April, May. Disgusting.
Blue Mountain Edward
02-02-2013, 23:17
Someone should dig a hole and put up a sigh that says poop here.
Ladyofthewoods
02-03-2013, 10:43
I hate to say this but woman are the biggest offenders for leaving toilet paper along the trail. A male will just pee in back of a tree and leave no trace. A woman will pee in the woods and just leave the toilet paper.
Grampie, I dispute this statement. Experienced hiking females have a method for peeing vs. pooping. For instance, wearing a pad allows you to 'pat' the area after pee, at nite, clean while doing your bathing routine. We probably care more for LNT methods than most guys. The toilet paper, cleanse wipes, are only for poop and that only after digging the cathole. Actually, any man/woman who leaves waste, etc. within eyesight of the shelter is a jerk, plain and simple, and we all the trail is full of same. That doesn't keep me from enjoying the outdoors, but I sure wish they could be shamed in to behaving better.
I disagree, too. I use a P-style, so I pee standing up without using toilet paper (as do many other outdoor women I know). There are other devices, as well.
But that's experienced folk. I think casual-use people of either sex are a bigger problem. And yes, potentially women.