Flat Tarp - size opinions

[litetrek]

I would like to get back to using a tarp for shelter. The reason is to cut some weight from my pack. I currently am using a Big Agnes Seedhouse SL1 tent which is a nice weight (around 2.5 to 3 lbs if I remember right) but its pretty confining. I backpacked with a tarp 30 years ago and always like the open feel of it. Anyhow I've been looking at a 8 x 10 or a 9 x 9 silnylon flat tarp and don't really know which to choose for my purposes. I'm not thru hiking but I might go out for as much as a week at a time once a year and for a couple of nights many times a year. I'm usually hiking with a group but staying in my own shelter. Sometimes (seldom) my wife comes with me and shares the shelter. I know I'll get some comments that both of those are too big for one or two people, but I don't like to get wet, I like plenty of space and I don't like using a bivy. I also like the versatility of a flat tarp. Whatever I get has to be less than half the weight of my tent when the ground cloth and stakes and guy lines are added to the tarp. Cost is really not a big factor BUT anything over $150 would start feeling too expensive. The downside of a flat tarp big enough to suit me is finding a suitable place to pitch it on the AT or most trails in Georgia. So my questions are 1) 8 x 10 or 9 x 9 flat tarp ? 2) Other good roomy lightweight shelter options that weigh around a pound.

[aficion]

I love my 10 x 10. Versatile and roomy for one or two. Light and cheap enough for your requirements, even with added tyouts.

[hauptman]

I often opt for a length of cord and a heat sheets two person emergency blanket set up A-frame style with the edges weighted down with whatever is at hand(rocks/snow/sand/branches/etc...).Quick,simple, and warmer than plain tarp---especially with a fire in front.

[Feral Bill]

I use an 8x10 sylnylon tarp. Roomy for one, workable for two, and light. Before that I used an 8x10 taffeta tarp for many years before handing it down to my daughter. I've been very happy with both. I add a bug net as needed.

[CarlZ993]

This 9.5 X 10 silnylon tarp looks promising. It may replace my 8 X 10 tarp that I've used a few times.
http://www.bearpawwd.com/tents_tarps/tarps.html

[litetrek]

I discovered that tarp too and it got my interest. Those tarps have lots of tie outs as standard and they look well designed and sewn. That particular manufacturer has or had a B- rating from the better business bureau, though. I really don't know what that means and if it is accurate or even up to date. BUT it made me think twice before ordering. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't order from them, but finding that one thing made me decide to look around first. buying sight unseen on the internet requires a certain level of trust.

[Hosaphone]

I've been wanting to replace my 8x10 silnylon tarp with a cuben one for a while, and have been doing tons of research. 8x10 in an A-frame is just an outrageous amount of space for a solo hiker. I thought I had settled on a 7x10, when I read this BPL article: http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/tarp_camping_inclement_conditions.html#.UQyNi_K5yV s

You need to be a member or buy the article for $5. If you're planning to drop $100 on a tarp (or $200 if you go cuben), IMO it'd be worth the 5 bucks to read it. There's a lot of really good info I didn't stumble upon in my research elsewhere. At the very least read the forum companion thread (no need to pay any money to read that).

I bought some 1mil plastic from home depot so I could cut it to size and experiment with many different dimensions. After much research and playing around, I've settled on an 8.5x8.5 tarp. A square tarp with lots of tieouts (the mid-panel pullouts are especially important for creating space inside when it's pitched low) will actually give you more space than a rectangular depending on how you pitch it, and it is more versatile in pitches available to it.

I've only ever used 8x10 in the field so take my advice with a grain of salt. Fortunately you can't really go wrong with either size. 8x10 will get the job done just fine... But after a lot of experimenting I think a square tarp will be better. That's just the conclusion I personally came to. I would encourage you to go to home depot and get a roll of 1mil plastic drop cloth for $5, and do your own experimenting.

[litetrek]

My tarp 30-ish years ago was something similar. My two friends and I hiked up the tree less ridge on the AT going east at Lehigh water gap in the dead of winter and nearly froze. I'll never forget that night. It was way too cold and windy for a tarp on that trip. The next night was in a cozy AT shelter down the trail. We didn't quite make our destination at the Delaware water gap, but we did survive.

[litetrek]

Thanks. I know an 8x10 is really big for one Anything much shorter in the long dimension seems too short to me though because I thrash and move around a lot in my sleep. The research I've done on the internet indicates that 9 feet is the shortest length you can use without a bivy and not get wet. I started my backpacking days in PA, NY, DE and NJ and tarp camped in those places. I now live in GA and the woods here along the AT are very dense in comparison. Sometimes its hard to find a place to put up a tent, let alone an 8 x10 tarp, so I thought I'd get some input. I appreciate your opinions and especially appreciate the good link.

[Hosaphone]

I think 9 feet would be insufficient length for me, or at least it would force me to be careful to the point that I'd rather just have the longer tarp. I'm 6'3 and use a 6'6 bag. Actual length of the bag is a bit longer than that, even. A shorter friend of mine (he's like 5'10 or something) has a 7x9 tarp that he uses without bivy. When pitched in an A-frame, the width is adequate for him but sometimes he needs to cover the foot end of his bag with something to protect it. He says if he could do it again, he'd buy a 7x9.5.

Consider that you won't really ever be pitching a square tarp in a traditional A-frame - you want to take advantage of the long diagonal. An 8.5x8.5 has a 12 foot diagonal, so pitching it in an "A-frame" with the ridgeline across the diagonal can give you a ton of space. You can also do some pretty cool things with low half-pyramid-ish pitches - you can bring the sides down very low, and then use mid-panel pullouts to raise it up inside. The thing that annoys me most about my silnylon 8x10 is that it doesn't have enough of those pullouts, so if you have to pitch it low most of the space under it becomes unusable.

In my experience, it's easier to find a place to pitch a tarp than it is to find a suitable spot for a tent. The tarp "takes up more space", but it doesn't have a footprint. This means you can pitch it right over those tiny little shrubs that are everywhere, and not worry about trampling the vegetation or getting holes poked in the bottom of your tent.

[litetrek]

Is the square shape that much more versatile than the rectangular shape? Also a 10 x 10 is 20 % heavier than an 8 x 10. The 10 x 10 gets you good coverage all around at the expense of 20 % more weight and my main goal is to cut weight. I'm getting older (50+) and heavier and having a lighter pack makes backpacking more enjoyable and doable for me. I'm just trying to nail down which will work best for me. If I can't get the weight down from my current tent by at least 1.5 pounds its not worth it. The issue of finding a place big enough to put it up is something I'll have to decide. GA has dense woods and frequently part of that is poison ivy covered ground - everywhere. You can always keep hiking and find ivy free ground but sometimes its a long ways and when you've hiked all day who wants to do that?

[Hosaphone]

I've never hiked in GA but geeze, if there is poison ivy everywhere maybe a tarptent style shelter would be a better choice (but even then I guess you'd get it on your hands when packing up in the morning?)... Fortunately I don't have any reaction to poison ivy so I can't really comment there.

I think a 10x10 would be waaaaaay too big for a solo hiker, at least for me, in the dense forest of New England. I meant if I was going for a rectangular tarp, I'd want a 7x10 or 8x10. For a square tarp I think 8x8 or 9x9 is about right. 9 probably overkill, but as a tall person 8 might not be quite as luxurious as I'd like.

Realistically, a square tarp is probably not THAT much more versatile unless you just enjoy the challenge of learning and using different pitches. I'll likely end up using just a few different pitches all the time either way. Some pitches work better with a square tarp than with rectangular, though. Also an 8.5x8.5 is 72.25 square feet, whereas 8x10 is 80, so a tiny bit of weight saved.

I think the biggest thing to look for is to make sure you have enough tieouts. Most commercially available silnylon tarps don't have enough, imo. If all you have or all you use is 6 tieouts (2 ridgeline, 4 corners) every single one of those stakes MUST go in just the right spot, and if it isn't perfect you won't be able to get a taut pitch. If you have a bunch of tieouts and mid-panel pullouts, it is much easier to get a taut pitch even when using some weird irregular pitch that you've adapted to the surroundings.

Around ~3:30 in this video gives a good idea of what I was talking about above regarding "half pyramid-ish pitches":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGPYkqNroDc&feature=youtu.be&t=3m37s


You'll probably be happy with either size... But again I'd recommend going to home depot and picking up something like this: http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-202059082/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=drop+cloth&storeId=10051#.UQ1F0_K5yVs

You can make a pretty functional tarp with 1mil plastic. To make tieouts wherever you want, put a piece of duct tape on both sides of the plastic and then poke a hole through it with something. Probably wouldn't hold up too long on the trail, but it works well enough that you can play around with pitching it, different places for tieouts, etc, and figure out exactly what you want in a tarp.

[BirdBrain]

I prefer a square tarp. 10'x10' can be a bit heavy and expensive, but very versatile. I made my own from syl-nylon material bought at Wal*Mart. They have partial bolts sold at various times for next to nothing. The material I bought cost about $10 total and I still have some left over.

[Alligator]

I had an 8X10 silnylon. I made my own cuben, square tarp which is a little over 10 feet on each side. It's large but weighs about 9 oz. It's definitely large for one person but the weight difference was negligible to me. At 6'2', I too would not have considered anything less than 9' square as I wanted a square one. I will probably add two pullouts off the edges to better handle a pyramid pitch as it is oversize and the slope is a bit shallow.

You can fit two in sizes upwards from 8X10 IMO.

[Tinker]

A tapered tarp might be an option, too. This one's not quite flat

http://www.bearpawwd.com/tents_tarps/lagarita.html

but is probably quite versatile. It's similar to the tapered SpinnTwinn that Gossamer Gear used to make (and I own), but it has front closure tabs, very worthwhile, imo, when the wind gets real nasty. The ridgeline on my SpinTwinn is catenary cut, so it sheds wind a bit better when pitched as an A-frame (over my hammock, mostly), but it limits the versatility. The La Garita (Garage in Spanish, I guess) is not catenary cut, so it could be more esily deployed in more configurations.

[litetrek]

thanks everyone for the help and info. I' kind of a gear nut and looking at the options and all the available gear is almost as much fun for me as actually buying and using the stuff. has anyone bought from bear paw wilderness designs? They seem to have nice tarps? oware has nice tarps also but they are a little more expensive. I can sew and IF I could get cheap silnylon here at the Walmart it might be worth the effort. All the Walmarts near me got rid of fabric a few years ago. they also shrunk the sporting goods area to the point of being almost useless. Everyone once in a while I used to get some fairly good gear there for cheap. ,.... I'm known for being frugal.

[Hosaphone]

I've heard only good things about Bearpaw. Another custom option is Borah gear - http://www.borahgear.com/tarps.html I have a borah bivy and it's solid, but I can't speak to their tarps. I would think it can't be too difficult to sew a tarp, though...

Probably tough to go wrong. Just make sure you get something with panel pullouts and tie-out loops instead of grommets.

[litetrek]

Bearpaw has some pretty negative posts online about them and they have (or once had) a b- from the better business bureau. Most of it was service related. Thats why I asked. I'll check out borahgear... I didn't know about them. I like the looks of bearpaw's gear and their prices. I'm just a little hesitant because of some of the stuff I found.

[Hosaphone]

Bearpaw has some pretty negative posts online about them and they have (or once had) a b- from the better business bureau. Most of it was service related. Thats why I asked. I'll check out borahgear... I didn't know about them. I like the looks of bearpaw's gear and their prices. I'm just a little hesitant because of some of the stuff I found.

Ah... I haven't heard a lot about them, but a friend bought a shelter from them and had no complaints about service or craftsmanship. I haven't done tons of research so I dunno, but I've always thought they were pretty well respected.

[litetrek]

Well, I too was impressed with what bearpaw has to sell. I suspect making custom gear could set you up for complaints or dissatisfaction due to possible communication problems. Custom usually means you have to keep it and pay for it even if its not what you expected.

[aficion]

Well, I too was impressed with what bearpaw has to sell. I suspect making custom gear could set you up for complaints or dissatisfaction due to possible communication problems. Custom usually means you have to keep it and pay for it even if its not what you expected.

Oware. No probs.

[daddytwosticks]

Check out Campmor. Years ago, I purchased an 8X10 silnylon tarp for a very reasonable amount. Has grommets, not tieouts and some say the method of sewing weakens the tarp. But it has given me years of service for a small investment. :)

[leaftye]

The Nemo Transform Tarp is a neat idea. It's 12'x12' flat tarp that converts into a triangular mid. When it was on sale, I think it was $130.

[litetrek]

hosaphone, if you're still there, does paying for an article on backpacking light get you pdf version or ability to read it online or a copy in the mail? I don't want to pay 5 bucks and then have to wait a week for a paper copy. I have ryan jordan's book and I bet the same info is covered there ... don't know, I'll have to dig it out and look. I am old enough to be of the colin fletcher school of backpacking. The ultralight thing is going too far for me. I've flirted with subscribing to backpackinglight but much of what I could read in the forums seemed a bit extreme to me but there are a lot of good ideas there, though.

[Hosaphone]

Check out Campmor. Years ago, I purchased an 8X10 silnylon tarp for a very reasonable amount. Has grommets, not tieouts and some say the method of sewing weakens the tarp. But it has given me years of service for a small investment. :)

You probably bought the same tarp I did. Green, I think Equinox is the brand. Cost me $50 when I bought it but the price has since gone up to like $90. No panel pullouts, and the seam actually goes across the 8 foot part instead of the 10 foot part.

The grommets on mine are starting to tear out of the material :( That's a big part of why I'm looking into replacing it, aside from wanting to save like 10+ ounces and have a fancy new toy. I feel like a good storm and a not-so-tight pitch could be the end of the tarp, but I don't really want to use it until it completely fails and get soaked.

Apparently most people don't have problems with grommets, but I think in general they cause more problems than tie-outs? Could be operator error, maybe I put too much tension on the tarp or something.



hosaphone, if you're still there, does paying for an article on backpacking light get you pdf version or ability to read it online or a copy in the mail? I don't want to pay 5 bucks and then have to wait a week for a paper copy. I have ryan jordan's book and I bet the same info is covered there ... don't know, I'll have to dig it out and look. I am old enough to be of the colin fletcher school of backpacking. The ultralight thing is going too far for me. I've flirted with subscribing to backpackinglight but much of what I could read in the forums seemed a bit extreme to me but there are a lot of good ideas there, though.

Buying the article allows you to read online.

I haven't read the book, but if you read through the forum companion thread a few people point out that a lot of the info is not new, and that much of it can be found in the book or the older article. So I'm not sure what exactly is contained in the book, but apparently Ryan thought it would be useful to update that info. Here is the intro paragraph from the new article:


Nine years ago, I published an article here about tarp camping in inclement conditions (http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/00150.html). The same piece was revised and updated for the book Lightweight Backpacking and Camping (http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/ebooks.html) in 2005. The article you are about to read addresses the same topic, but has been rewritten from scratch to reflect my own refinements in tarp camping techniques learned through additional experience, the availability of new materials, and extending the use of tarps into increasingly foul conditions.

The fact that you were considering a square tarp in the first place means maybe you came into this knowing more than I did. Even after all my researching, I was still pretty much sold on rectangular until I read this article. I dunno.

The gist of the article is kind of, "more stakes + more guylines = tighter canopy = better stake holding power, being able to create line of tension between any two points on the tarp is nice." Also some useful comparisons of stakes, guylines, materials, shapes of tarps, etc.

[leaftye]

The ultralight thing is going too far for me.

Don't discount ultralight gear out of hand. If you have the money, you can get incredibly ultralight gear that gives up virtually nothing in any other way, although this depends highly on application and actual use. A low pack weight can be achieved without giving up comfort or warmth.

In this case, money creates the option for cuben fiber tarps. An 8.5'x8.5' tarp will weigh a slight 6.1 ounces. It exceeds your desired $150 budget by $80 though.

[daddytwosticks]

Hosaphone...when that tarp finally dies, use all that silnylon for other projects (stuff sacks, smaller one man tarp, etc). Great source of MYOG silnylon. :)

[BikerEagle]

Etowah Tarps. You can get an 8'x10' silnylon tarp for $75. It weighs 13oz. No problems with mine. Etowah has been in the tarp business for a long time. Visit their web site.

[Odd Man Out]

Bearpaw has some pretty negative posts online about them and they have (or once had) a b- from the better business bureau. Most of it was service related. Thats why I asked. I'll check out borahgear... I didn't know about them. I like the looks of bearpaw's gear and their prices. I'm just a little hesitant because of some of the stuff I found.

I have had no experience with Bearpaw or their products, other than I e-mail a few times with questions about his products and got prompt responses. I too am considering some of his products so I checked it out.

It was easy enough to find the BBB website listing with the B- rating. But the details say:

Factors that lowered BearPaw Wilderness Designs, LLC's rating include:



BBB does not have sufficient information to determine how long this business has been operating.
BBB does not have sufficient background information on this business. BBB made two or more requests for background information from the business. BBB has not received a response from this business and/or has not been able to verify information received from this business.

Factors that raised BearPaw Wilderness Designs, LLC's rating include:



Complaint volume filed with BBB for business of this size.
Response to 1 complaint(s) filed against business.
Resolution of complaint(s) filed against business.


And there was just one complaint listed. When I Google searched for reviews of the company, I found lots of positive reviews of the products and service and only one complaint (here on WB) a while back.

That seems like a pretty good track record to me. Really? a B- from BBB because they don't much about the company?

[leaftye]

I recall one bad online review about Bearpaw, but it was for custom gear, and it was a bad buyer, possibly a scammer.

[Smooth & Wasabi]

Colin Fletcher advocated using a MYOG tarp and a trash bag kilt. He loaded up with weight because he went into the wilds for weeks at a time. To the OP my next tarp will be a square probably a 9x9. I currently have rectangular tarps and while they work well I wish I could set up a simple half pyramid or flying wedge more easily. I have a 10x12 which worked great for months on end with my wife. A few years back I bough a 5x7 which is too small in my opinion. 9x9 0r 10x10 would be palatial for one and doable for two.

[Tinker]

Check out Campmor. Years ago, I purchased an 8X10 silnylon tarp for a very reasonable amount. Has grommets, not tieouts and some say the method of sewing weakens the tarp. But it has given me years of service for a small investment. :)


A grommet pulled out of my 10x12 silnylon tarp that I bought from Campmor (made by Equinox). Stitching is fine, but grommets are not the way to go, especially on a silnylon tarp because they are pressure fit like a rivet and need friction to hold well. Silnylon is very slippery. I understand that Equinox is making some new tarps with tieout loops instead of grommets but have not verified the info.

[litetrek]

Colin Fletcher advocated using a MYOG tarp and a trash bag kilt. He loaded up with weight because he went into the wilds for weeks at a time. To the OP my next tarp will be a square probably a 9x9. I currently have rectangular tarps and while they work well I wish I could set up a simple half pyramid or flying wedge more easily. I have a 10x12 which worked great for months on end with my wife. A few years back I bough a 5x7 which is too small in my opinion. 9x9 0r 10x10 would be palatial for one and doable for two.

After much thought a 9x9 would probably be my choice as well. I hammock camp sometimes and a 9x9 is too small for most hammocks, but I suppose I could pitch it on the diagonal over my hammock (in which case it would be a little too long) If I ever get around to buying a flat tarp I would want to be able to use it with my hammock if needed.

[litetrek]

I have had no experience with Bearpaw or their products, other than I e-mail a few times with questions about his products and got prompt responses. I too am considering some of his products so I checked it out.

It was easy enough to find the BBB website listing with the B- rating. But the details say:

Factors that lowered BearPaw Wilderness Designs, LLC's rating include:



BBB does not have sufficient information to determine how long this business has been operating.
BBB does not have sufficient background information on this business. BBB made two or more requests for background information from the business. BBB has not received a response from this business and/or has not been able to verify information received from this business.

Factors that raised BearPaw Wilderness Designs, LLC's rating include:



Complaint volume filed with BBB for business of this size.
Response to 1 complaint(s) filed against business.
Resolution of complaint(s) filed against business.


And there was just one complaint listed. When I Google searched for reviews of the company, I found lots of positive reviews of the products and service and only one complaint (here on WB) a while back.

That seems like a pretty good track record to me. Really? a B- from BBB because they don't much about the company?

Yes, I agree. You did a better job of researching it than I did. Since that post I've decided that online forums like this are not really a fair place to discuss cottage industry online retailers. Thank you for correcting me.

Also, even though I only objectively stated what I had read, I regret doing the post and apologize for doing so.

[Elder]

www.etowahoutfitters.com (http://www.etowahoutfitters.com) Great gear, tarps etc.
Tarps are sewn with sewn tabs, much more reliable than grommets.

[yerbyray]

You ought to look at http://www.warbonnetoutdoors.com/gt-ground-tarp/

[Connie]

I like a no-sag tarp, I remedy to an extent with those elastic tie-out line tensioners. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vf_AeVejzmA

I prefer a "catenary-cut" tarp for the best pitch. If sil-nylon, sil-nylon will sag a bit, so, I use those tie-out line tensioners in addition to the ordinary line adjusters.

My favorite tarp is an Oware Asym1, the owner says is his CatTarp1 with the panel on one side reversed. It is a catenary-cut tarp.

It pitches well. It is asymetrical.

It covers one person, and, it covers my gear.


He has square tarps 9x9, 9.5x9.5, 10x10
http://shop.bivysack.com/FlatTarp-TM_c6.htm