View Full Version : Summer Weight Down Bag on CDT?
SunnyWalker
02-16-2013, 23:45
OK, heres the deal. I have a Mountain Research Goose Down Bag that was summer weight down to 32 degrees. I am planning on hiking the CDT with it going NOBO leaving abut middle of April 2013. Will have Merino wool long johns and fleece and down jacket once I hit the mtns. Wool socks also. I can wear all that also and I will be in a bivi bag under a tarp.
Question: Will be warm enought on the CDT? Thanks for the advice. :):-? Also I mean to say I used this same bag on a bicycle trip from Amarillo, TX up into Kansans, through CO an on west to the Oregon Coast. It was plenty warm on that trip.
That same bag all the way? i wouldn't. Sounds like a stretch in MT in Sept. Maybe some cool/cold nights at the higher elevation in the Winds and CO. Even Yellowstone might be cold for you with just that bag in a tent. I'm a somewhat neutral sleeper but my extremities can get cold easily and stay that way for awhile. I would want a 15-25* accurately rated newish high lofting down bag with a liner and down booties at the ready if needed. I would consider a 32* a stretch FOR ME for the entire CDT NOBO and I like pushing the limits of myself and my gear. A 32* would be fine for NM but once at the CO/NM line or there abouts I would want to swap it for a warmer bag or make some allowance for extra insulation especially if you are going to do the San Juans and there's snow and there's a good chance there will be. A sleeping bag is not where I cut corners. I try buying only the best, the lightest, and the most compact. Got to get the bag and shoes right. Don't have the right shoes and bag not going to be a happy hiker or hiking for long. My 2 cts.
On a bicycle tour you have greater access to help in case something goes wrong. Not always so with hiking or specifically hiking the CDT. The CDT is not the AT either. Not as much help on the CDT. Nowhere near as many hikers either. Your bag could become your life line. I place a high priority on my sleeping bag. It's the major piece of insulation for me and it is an integral piece insuring a comfortable night's rest so I can be at my best the next day.
fiddlehead
02-17-2013, 04:03
First thing I looked at was your age.
Possibly I could've gotten away with a 35 degree bag when I was in my 20's or 30's.
A few cold nights, take the water bottle with hot water with you or possibly a micro fleece liner.
But, I would get a 20 deg bag (Feathered Friends makes one under 2 lbs) and be comfortable on those nights.
Remember, the average elevation in CO on the CDT is over 10,000' (around 11k I think)
Agreed with the above. It's certainly possible that you could make this work, perhaps feeling on the cold side sometimes. It's also possible that you could be very very cold, dangerously cold. I've carried "less bag" than others around me at times; starting the AT in late Feb I had a 20F bag plus parka and everyone around me had 0 to 10, at most 15F bags. But there's no way I'd carry a 32F bag on the CDT, even with a fairly beefy set of warm clothes to wear inside.
On the PCT and the AT swapping between two bags was a good approach for me, but on the CDT it made sense to me to just carry a 20F down bag the whole way. At least as a SOBO and I would think as a NOBO too. fiddlehead pointed out the average elevation in Colorado; to that I would add that for NOBOs, CO is generally a very snowy experience, and for SOBOs you're hitting it in September, often not leaving CO until sometime in October, so Autumn is starting to make itself known (it snowed on me quite a bit towards the very end of CO). A 32F bag might be a fine choice for much of Wyoming, but it's not worth it to swap out for just that IMO.
A 20 degree bag tends to be "the standard" on the CDT. The CDT as you know is a very high trail and tends to be a cold trail at night. I'd get a warmer bag.
handlebar
02-17-2013, 14:34
I also recommend a 20 degree bag. I hiked nobo in three large chunks over three years timed to be with the (non) herd of nobo CDT hikers. I used a silk liner with my bag. I found I almost always erected my Wild Oasis, a pyramid shaped tarp, mostly as a wind block. Never needed a bivy sack with it. You might want to check the weight tradeoffs between your bivy and a colder-rated bag.
I am going with a 30 degree bag (marmot hydrogen), with similar clothes to what you are taking. In my thread I showed that I could take it to 16 degrees without being cold at all. I am 52, but a caveat as I see you are from Texas. I have lived my whole life in Canada and spend much of the times out doors. I have even slept in a heavy down bag in my truck a -46 degrees C, (was 18 at the time though). Wasn't warm, but didn't freeze :). Looks like a little more testing is in order the next time it gets cold out. See how cold I can go, so I am comfortable in my decision.
garlic08
02-17-2013, 18:17
A 20 degree bag tends to be "the standard" on the CDT. The CDT as you know is a very high trail and tends to be a cold trail at night. I'd get a warmer bag.
Ditto this. There's a saying in the high country that there are two seasons: Winter and Fourth of July.
SunnyWalker
02-17-2013, 22:27
OK. I appreciate the help and advice. For the record though, I am from the Pacific NW and have hiked a lot in Cascades and have hiked in Mtns here in NM. Did some Mtn climbing when I was younger, got turned onto it by Outward Bound. This was in the Pacific NW. I had my doubts about the bag and so jus wanted some others thought to confirm that and you Have. I really appreciate it and off to REI I go!
I shouldnt assume. Good luck and hope to see you on the trail. :)
SunnyWalker
02-17-2013, 22:47
After reading your comments and all I went to REI and started looking around. It made me question what I had stated above. So I pulled the bag out and it is a Western Mountaineering brand goose down bag. The label is faded but i can read the registry no. So I am going to go to WM web site, if it exists and see if I can find out the specs on this bag.
SunnyWalker
02-17-2013, 23:10
I apologize one and all. I found out some info on the Web on this brand name bag, with same registration number and it looks good. However, I feel i will just write a letter to Western Mountaineering and find out if I can. I have some time yet before Mid or end of April. It'll be good to check it out. I feel kind of non-plussed, thought I had this one nailed down. Oh well . . . . .
By the way, its a beautful bag, kept me warm in San Juans and Mtns around Sante Fe as well as in the desert. Its in fine shape and would not hesitate to take it on that angel. So we will see. Thanks again.
So the plot thickens. Thought you were saying you had a Mountain Research 32 * down sleeping bag. Good luck.
Do you have a scale to weigh? Doing that and measuring the loft may give an idea of how warm it is.
SunnyWalker
02-22-2013, 13:10
Mtnrat: talk to me. Tell me what to do. Just weight the whole thing? I'' come back later, I've got the weight here some where. I did find the same bag on the net, same registry number and said it was good to minus 25 degrees!! Ha, ha. I am sure its not the same bag. I don't think I got one that good. So I did write WM with the info on the tag. I'll see what they say. But Mtnrat, let me know what the weight means and all. Thanks.
Really not so much the weight, but the loft. The higher the loft and less weight usually means better down. Weight alone can be misleading as materials can vary widely.
SunnyWalker
02-23-2013, 17:12
Ummmm, I think the loft on this is pretty good. I have not found my notes on its weight. I am laid up recovering from toe amputation. Kind of hard to get around right now. Oh, I'll go look ay my gear list on Postholer.com . . . . . . . OK, 37.75 oz. Des not tell us much though prob real warm bags are heavier.
SunnyWalker
02-28-2013, 01:19
Now I know you'll all say this is not the same as being out on the trail in the cold weather and all. I know that. Its the best I could do right now as I wait on an answer from Western Mountaineering. We have been having real cold weather and had a blizzard also. We keep the front room of the house just hardly heated at all right now. SO, I asked my wife and she graciiously helped me by bringing my ridgerest pad, sleeping bag, REI Minilamist Bivi and to the Front room. I put on my Merino Wool longs on, wool cap, Fleece sweater and got cozy. Slept like a bug in a rug. Wow, had a furnace going on in there all night. I had to have help putting this together as I am recovering from a little surgery to my left foot. OK, anyway, perhaps it will satay cool so when I get over this recovering I can try it outside in the REAL cold weather. IF WM does not reply.
The CDT starts out at 4000' at the Mexican border which is the lowest elevation of the entire trail.
wandering_bob
02-28-2013, 21:22
And Coney Summit in CO is 13,271. Most of CO - especially southern CO - is above 10,000 feet.
SunnyWalker
03-01-2013, 22:10
Yep, I am aware of all that. Waiting on WM . . . . .
Chance09
03-05-2013, 18:29
I was cold with a 20 deg bag and i'm 26. Normally I'm extremely warm when I sleep. I froze on the CDT
SunnyWalker
03-16-2013, 23:02
Well, its been a month since I sent a letter of inquiry to Western Mountaineering. I enclosed a self-addressed stamped envelope for their reply. Looks like they are not going to bother. Looks like their customer service could use some work. Oh well . . . . .
fiddlehead
03-17-2013, 00:38
Feathered Friends!
Works for me.
SunnyWalker
03-17-2013, 17:38
Actually, I was looking at the Kelty Cosmic 20 Down Bag offered at REI. Pretty good price on it.
bigcranky
03-17-2013, 20:08
Ditto this. There's a saying in the high country that there are two seasons: Winter and Fourth of July.
No, actually there are four seasons: Summer, Almost Winter, Winter, and Still %^&$ Winter.
FYI, you can gauge a down sleeping bag's temperature rating by the loft (the thickness of the insulation--just the top, not both sides combined). Ray Jardine says that the temperature rating is 100 - (40 x loft in inches). BPL has a similar rating system. They say 2.6" for 10 degrees F, 2.2" for 20 degrees, and 1.8" for 30 degrees.
It might be important to figure into the equation when addressing sleeping bag choices on the CDT, CT, GDT, JMT, SHR, parts of the PCT, and even apply to some situations on the AT in off season trekking in places like The White Mountains and Maine that it isn't just about possibly being cold or how tolerant you are to it or that it's a higher elevation trail/route overall or in sections, but with that higher elevation it often is accompanied with greater exposure. I opted for several even higher ridgeline route choices with even greater exposure, some as yet undescribed, on the CDT. I knew I was going to do some of this in the CDT planning stages. Knowing all that going in, and that I also chose to tarp, I thought it wise to take that into account in my sleeping system. One of the wonderful things about the CDT is that probably no two CDTers opt for exactly the same route. Lots of options and folks are coming up with new route options. This should be pretty obvious if you review Jonathan Ley's CDT mapset. It's not like the CDT or any of the trails/routes listed above typically involve hardcore mountaineering at super high elevations but it might be something to think about when planning for a CDT hike or hike on any of those trails.
Not to get too serious or have an alarmist mentality about this but it's usually a combination of events that lead to situations/problems and the CDT can certainly potentially offer up combinations like this if you are unaware of the potential. IMHO, as with all hiking, who you are, what you know, how you gear up, when you go, how you organize/plan your hike, etc play into this.
BTW, like the Sunny Walker trail name.
Thanks Burger. Learned something new, from you, today!
SunnyWalker
03-17-2013, 23:27
Thanks for the equation information Burger. I will pull it out tomorrow (Mon) and see what I come up with. Thanks.
Dogwood, thanks and I hear ya. I always camp smart. By the way it is SunnyWalker. Not Sunny Walker. Hey Happy Paddy's Day God bless all here!
You sound like my niece who wants to correct me about details that she thinks important. Wonder where she gets it?:D
SunnyWalker
03-26-2013, 21:19
Well, my memory tells me the bag was a summer weight (but it was a faint memory if you know what I mean). Using Burgers figures that's what it comes out to. AND unfortunately it has been almost six weeks now and I have not heard from Western Mountaineering even though I enclosed a self addressed stamped envelope. I might be able to see where they might not want to commit themselves. However, I would have appreciated them writing me back and just stating they are unable to do that, no problemo. Like I said, I did enlcose a self address stamped envelope. OH well, its off to REI I go! Thanks for the help folks. And Dogwood, if you put Sunny Walker in your internet search you will come up with something not associated with me. I am SunnyWalker and it is a different site. Thanks one and all.
Oh, you're that Sunny Walker, in that case got the $50 I lent you:) Ever get over to Guadalupe or Big Bend NPs?
SunnyWalker
03-26-2013, 23:22
Dogwood: I am SunnyWalker not the one you mentioned. Never met you. Never needed a loan when I was down in Big Bend. Oh, that is a beautiful place. OK, I got a bag a little heavier than I was thinking but made some adjustments, dropped some other equipment and went with a 60 oz., bag for 189.99 (REI dividend and 20% off) PRICE IS RIGHT Good to 4 degrees (rated), OK, I know you are all waiting with baited breath, sorry Feathered Friends, left you . . . . its . . . its: Kelty Cosmic Down 4!!!!!!!! By the way, I did want to say that the summer weight Western Mountaineering down bag I already have and was mentioned above-Huh, I really like it. Prob the best bag I ever had. Now this Kelty will be great also. Two different bags, two different purposes or situations.
Swish. Tongue in cheek SunnyWalker. Did I get you right 60 oz sleeping bag with 4* temp rating? That isn't a summer bag. Seems like you went from one extreme to another. Sorry for going into, what I now know, was too much detail. I must restrain myself more often here on WB
SunnyWalker
03-29-2013, 21:04
Yeah, 4 degree bag. Now I'm good I have a summer weight bag and a hot, warm and toasty bag! That's right: two separate bags. The one that I started this thread off on, Western Mountaineering summer weight down gag. AND the one I just bought Kelty Cosmic 4 Down bag.
Now I know you'll all say this is not the same as being out on the trail in the cold weather and all. I know that. Its the best I could do right now as I wait on an answer from Western Mountaineering. We have been having real cold weather and had a blizzard also. We keep the front room of the house just hardly heated at all right now. SO, I asked my wife and she graciiously helped me by bringing my ridgerest pad, sleeping bag, REI Minilamist Bivi and to the Front room. I put on my Merino Wool longs on, wool cap, Fleece sweater and got cozy. Slept like a bug in a rug. Wow, had a furnace going on in there all night. I had to have help putting this together as I am recovering from a little surgery to my left foot. OK, anyway, perhaps it will satay cool so when I get over this recovering I can try it outside in the REAL cold weather. IF WM does not reply.
I also own a Western Mountaineering bag. The Antelope Super model with a full collar around the shoulder and neck area. 1 lb. 10 oz. down and 7" loft. Total weight in the stuff sack is ~3 lb. 2 oz. I reckon my bag is good anywhere on the CDT through September. I know it was good in Mt. Robson P.P. the first week of October and the middle of July. The July when it snowed on us 3 times.
My REI down bag with 1 lb. 4 oz. down & 5" loft has been fine on many nights WAY below freezing from the San Juans to Yellowstone.
Wayne
SunnyWalker
03-31-2013, 00:29
Well, I can't buy a bag for over say, $250 -or I do not want to. I could but man! The one I ordered is 60 oz which makes it 3 and 3/4 lbs. I am beginning to think I need to re-think that and try to get something lighter. I am a cold sleeper though. Wanted something really nice. I see a lot of bags hikers are using that are in the below 3 lbs., range. I wonder if I could find one 2 lbs (under three) and still be warm enough. I will go look at the "feathered friends" and Marmots and etc., but something tells me they cost a lot.
SunnyWalker
03-31-2013, 00:49
I found a bag I think might be as good and weighs less. Here it is: REI Radiant Down. Rated to 20 degrees. 2 lb 8 oz (40 oz). The question is whether it is worth the hassle? Returning the other bag and waiting for this one. Price is about the same. 40 oz vs. 60 oz.? I think its worth it. Input? Thanks!
Also found a Sierra Designs Zissou 12. Rated to 12 degrees. Weight: 2 lb 7 oz., for 39 oz. Little more money at $269.00
I think I like it better as it is rated warmer. . . . . . . .
Input?? Thanks!!
Good luck. You've been handed enough worthwhile info to figure things out for yourself at this pt.
SunnyWalker
04-01-2013, 00:20
Sierra Designs Zissou at 39 oz., it is. Thanks you hikers! You ARE the MAN!
Hope it works for you.
All of my bag experiences have included adding/removing clothes as needed. I didn't mean to imply that I was comfortable below 32 in my underwear.
Wayne
SunnyWalker
04-09-2013, 10:09
Its ok. I needed to get that nailed down. I have added clothes also and I had done that with that summer weight bag. Yet, I agree with many of the posts in that it was too light a bag for CDT. That's what had me worried and so went through this process. Thanks again.