View Full Version : Triple crown hike, starting date
Scandinavian
02-18-2013, 07:06
Hi,
new to the forum, but o'boy is there a lot of good information here!
I'm currently planning a triple crown hike (AT, CDT, PCT). As of right now it looks like I'll be off work in oct. How feasable of a starting date is mid oct.? I wouldn't mind doing some flip-flopping to avoid the worst weather/snow conditions, but I would like to minimalize it. Thanks for any feedback!
Before the normal flames start I would suggest providing a bit more information like:
1) experience level.
2) is there a time constraint for completion, ie year.
3) what mileage can you do right at the start on normal trail conditions.
Depending on the answers the answer to how feasible could range from nearly impossible to problematic. Heading south bound on the AT would make the most sense but you would have to be a world class hiker to have a shot of getting out of new England before Nast weather sets in. What is world class..... Here is what a mid October AT start looks like and the type of hiker that can successfully pull it off.
As Malto suggest, mid-October the AT southbound is your only realistic option. However after that the PCT and CDT will be nearly impossible to finish.
If you can cover each trail in somewhat less than three months each , I suggest staring the PCT (north) in May, CDT (south) in late-July and the AT (south) in mid-October.
You'll have to maintain about a 35 mile per day average.
Almost There
02-18-2013, 08:52
Agree with the others, and I'd add, most importantly, how long do you have to hike? Do you have to finish in a year's time, or can you stretch that out?
Oops... http://www.thehikinglife.com/journal/2012/10/page/2/
Fast southbound AT hike starting mid October.
Scandinavian
02-18-2013, 09:44
Thanks for the response!
I'm terribly sorry I didn't add more context in my first post. As for experience I'd be in the "fairly experienced"-category (having completed two 1750 miles hikes before, and I have quite a bit wilderness experience). As for time constraints: not really, but as I know myself I'd push to complete in under a year (considering that this seems to be the norm). Daily averages in the start I'm assuming is gonna be around 30 - (with the previous hikes being harder and completed with slightly lower averages)
takethisbread
02-18-2013, 10:30
Even a mid October start in Baxter is quite difficult. A fast hiker would still likely encounter a bit of trouble getting through Maine and the Whites without serious conditions. A fast hiker might clear the Whites in a month and a half if all goes very well at that time of year. You'll be hauling a lot of gear. Once you clear that, it's gonna be fine , although cold and snow will be ever present. U are experienced so u know what u might be getting into, so good luck!
Thanks for the response!
I'm terribly sorry I didn't add more context in my first post. As for experience I'd be in the "fairly experienced"-category (having completed two 1750 miles hikes before, and I have quite a bit wilderness experience). As for time constraints: not really, but as I know myself I'd push to complete in under a year (considering that this seems to be the norm). Daily averages in the start I'm assuming is gonna be around 30 - (with the previous hikes being harder and completed with slightly lower averages)
In respect to your comment that "I'd push to complete in under a year (considering that this seems to be the norm)"
Are you looking to do all three trails (AT,PCT,CDT) in a year or just a single trail? The reason I ask is that there have only been 4 people that I know of that have hiked all three trails in a twelve month period, not only is it not the norm but it is highly unusual. Also, you will have to do well over 30 a day to hike all three in a year, Folks that have accomplished hike 40+ miles per day on a huge stretch of the trails.
Scandinavian
02-18-2013, 12:00
Solid advice. I'll be frank, I haven't done a whole lot of research, but the general opinion seems to be that I should start a AT SB, because of snow issues. How about flip-flopping?
And what is serious conditions?
gg-man: Forgive my math, but AFAIK all three trails has a total length of about 7,700 miles, which means you'd have to average about 22 miles -am I wrong? :)
takethisbread
02-18-2013, 13:29
Perhaps do the research. The serious conditions can be right away . U may have to wait several days to climb Kathadin to start. I'm guessing your actual trail average will have to be 30 mpd given travel and re supply issues. Quite a few people every year come on wb claiming to make some incredible hike, and like someone said 4 people have actually done it in history, I imagine all of them had a real good idea what they were in for (except that last guy , who was unknowingly smashing records!)
Good luck
Solid advice. I'll be frank, I haven't done a whole lot of research, but the general opinion seems to be that I should start a AT SB, because of snow issues. How about flip-flopping?
And what is serious conditions?
gg-man: Forgive my math, but AFAIK all three trails has a total length of about 7,700 miles, which means you'd have to average about 22 miles -am I wrong? :)
Yes you are wrong. Here's why. Ignore the AT, southern CDT and southern PCT. The focus needs to be on the northern 2/3rds of the PCT and CDT. Let's assume you head north on the PCT then south on the CDT. It is roughly 4000 Miles between Kennedy Meadows on the pct and the CO/NM border south bound on the CDT? You have a window of approximately June 1st until October 15th give or take a couple of weeks either way due to snow conditions. So you have 150 days to do those miles. On just a pure average that puts you at 26+ miles per day. But in order to average that you need to make up for lost time in the Sierra, travel time between trails and getting ahead to maximize you chances of making it through CO due to weather. Another factor is the potential of heavy snow in the north on either the PCT or CDT which isn't a show stopper but it can be a schedule slipper. If I was planning this I would target a June 1st to October 1st window for this critical section. That is about a 35mpd average and I would take few zeros beyond what was needed to travel between trails. I would plan to do 40 mile days consistently whenever possible.
As far as the rest of the trail. If you head south on the AT in October you will need to fly. Once out of new England you can throttle it back and cruise to Springer. Then head to either the CDT and hike to the CO border. Head out to the PCT and head north. Your pace on the second half of the AT until Kennedy meadows can be somewhat relaxed. Assuming a normal snow year, it doesn't help you much to get there much before June 1st.
Take a look at Swami's journal. His pace was pretty close to Squeakies and Flyin Brian's. Trauma had to be in that range as well. you can find Sqeakys and Flyin Brian's journal on the web as well. Flyin Brian's will give you a good feel on worst case scenario on the Northern AT.
Squeaky 2
02-18-2013, 14:18
you will have to average over 40 miles a day to make up for resupply and bad weather/trail conditions. maine and new england can be fine one day and be nailed in snow the next. to give youy an idea i was hit by one storm and it slowed me down by 3-4 weeks! thats no joke either. when you are in mahoosacs and whites in these conditions even the very fittest hikers will struggle to average much more than 10 miles per day. i was not far off 200 days for the triple crown until that storm!!!
south of there its doable to average 40 a day even with bad weather but you will leave yourself with no where to go out west early in the year. early season sierras are amazing but again very tough in heavy snow years. streams are dangerous to cross and passes are hard to climb with corniced snow right the way over the top. avelanches are another danger. there is also alot of lakes that may be snowed over. study maps to avoid hiking into the middle of these!!!
Trauma started further north on november 1st at cape gaspe and headed south but make no mistake he is with out doubt the most experienced and accomplished hiker you will meet but none the less its doable!!
it may be that a spring start nourth bound out west would suit better for weather conditions
On the positive side, as a Scandinavian you are probably way ahead of the game in terms of snow travel and judging snow conditions. Whether you can do it as fast as you'd like is another matter. Some of that will depend on the weather, which is beyond your control.
Slo-go'en
02-18-2013, 15:55
The weather is the wild card. Maybe it will break in your favor, but probably not. With good timing, doing two of the trails in one go would have a much better chance then all three. Forest fires out west could also mess you up.
Mountain Mike
02-18-2013, 16:59
Something to look at http://parkaymaps.110mb.com/combinedProfiles/combinedProfilesIndex.html
Scandinavian
02-19-2013, 03:54
I'm flabbergasted by the well thought out arguments and considerations you all have - thank you very much.
And yes, I will do this my way - it will be my research and my plan that lays the basis of the trip, but your input is well received. I will update this thread as I go (if that is allright), whether it be more questions, stating my progress, or bouncing ideas around.
Much appreciated!
HeartFire
02-19-2013, 06:48
http://www.thehikinglife.com/
fiddlehead
02-19-2013, 07:06
What you want to do is do-able.
But you'll need some luck with the weather and snow in the Sierras and CO.
We started our attempt on Oct 14th 2001 from Baxter SOBO.
Finished the AT on Feb 13th.
Had snow here and there but nothing too bad. (breathed a sigh of relief once we got over and past the whites)
We hit our problems at the CO border NOBO on the CDT.
Tons of snow and travel was too slow.
So we headed over the PCT and hiked up to Kennedy MEadows.
Problem there is there was no road crossings for the next 500 miles. (Carson pass)
So, we headed back to CO and basically finished the CDT NOBO.
Then we had some family problems and had to take 21 days off.
Once we got back we tried but our hearts weren't in it.
We had a schedule and were only 1 day behind it when we took the 21 days off or I believe we would've been successful.
You can read all about it here: (AT portion anyway)
http://fiddlehead.wordpress.com/2010/03/08/logs-from-appalacian-trail-portion-of-our-triple-crown-in-one-year-attempt-20012002/
Also, I believe our website is still up and running at triplecrownoneyear.tripod.com or something like that.
Complete with pictures and logs from the whole thing.
We also made a video which we still sell some copies once in a while.
They are available here if interested: http://warmstuff.com/product_info.php?cPath=64&products_id=251
It can be done. IMO
Something to look at http://parkaymaps.110mb.com/combinedProfiles/combinedProfilesIndex.html
Cool link.
Scandinavian
02-20-2013, 20:53
How is the availibility for freeze dried food (MountainHouse, etc?) in typical resupply towns? I have tried the no-cook option, and it simply doesn't do it for me. I'm assuming this isn't an issue for the AT, but how about the PCT and CDT?
Yet again, thanks a lot for the great replies!
Mountain Mike
02-20-2013, 21:15
Most towns not that great or high priced. A lot of hikers use Freezer Bag cooking on AT & other trails. Here is a good link. http://www.trailcooking.com/trail-cooking-101
If you have someone that can do mail drops for you you can get substantial discount ( 20 %) by buying in bulk from Campmoor http://www.campmor.com/, REI rei.com , or From the source, http://www.mountainhouse.com/.
How is the availibility for freeze dried food (MountainHouse, etc?) in typical resupply towns? I have tried the no-cook option, and it simply doesn't do it for me. I'm assuming this isn't an issue for the AT, but how about the PCT and CDT?
Yet again, thanks a lot for the great replies!
If you aren't absolutely sold on freeze-dried meals, your typical American grocery store has plenty of food that works well for backpacking: Pasta dishes, cous cous, tuna packs, rehydrated beans and other choices.
Many of the smaller towns even have a decent sized grocery store. If not, you can always buy food and mail it ahead to smaller areas not stocked with a good sized grocery store.
Scandinavian
02-21-2013, 01:52
Much appriciated. I know what works for me in the long run, and it relays heavely on freeze-dried meals. Whether I'm gonna go for the option where I buy in bulk and try to solve the logistical problem of shipping (I don't have any friends in the US, and I wont ship from Europe), stock up once every month and ship it from town, or buy as I go I am not sure yet. As of right now I'm leaning towards the option where I send food parcels every month or so from a resupply town (probably not for the AT, but for the other two). With this option the challenge is really whether or not the choicen supply town has 100 freeze dried meals in store.
You probably won't find any towns along any of the trails that have that many freeze dried meals in stock. (The towns tend to be small, and the stores in the towns small also.) However, it would be practical to order a hundred meals to be sent to you once a month, then split them up and remail them. Or, possibly easier, choose your resupply points and have the appropriate number of meals sent to each location.
The body might not appreciate a year long diet of Mountain House meals.:eek:
Scandinavian
06-02-2013, 02:55
Lo and behold!
So, my time constraints are more or less Sep 1st, 2013, to Aug 1st, 2014. Main line of thought is to start SB on CDT/PCT, jump over to the AT SB from mid Oct/early Nov, then head over to PCT/CDT NB mid Feb 2014 after finishing the AT (and possibly have to jump back to CDT/PCT duo to weather conditions). Is this a solid plan, or just terrible?
Havent put much effort into planning this since I am deployed, but I will put more effort into it the next couple of weeks.
Fiddlehead! Your inbox is full!
fiddlehead
06-02-2013, 03:28
In Sept, you could try to do the PCT SOBO but I doubt you'd make it through the Sierras (if you could even get that far)
Same with the CDT (CO is as high as the Sierras, which means snow in OCT)
I don't know a good plan starting in Sept.
Like I said, we started OCT 14th SOBO AT but just had too much snow in CO and the section of PCT from Kennedy meadows to Carson pass is just too long to go without a resupply point when roads are closed due to snow.
Winter is tough up high in the mountains.
Perhaps if you have skis and are very experienced.
Good luck.
(Sorry, now I fixed my inbox)
Scandinavian
06-02-2013, 06:04
You say perhaps if you have skis and is very experiened. So, you are saying it is doable. The CDT or PCT? I am not unfamilier with long ski tours. Is there anywhere I can find some 1:50 000 maps, in order to check the plausability myself? And even better some historical weather sites?
(and yes, I know I could probably google this myself, but why set for second best?)
You say perhaps if you have skis and is very experiened. So, you are saying it is doable. The CDT or PCT? I am not unfamilier with long ski tours. Is there anywhere I can find some 1:50 000 maps, in order to check the plausability myself? And even better some historical weather sites?
(and yes, I know I could probably google this myself, but why set for second best?)
Link to a topo map site http://www.digital-topo-maps.com/
fiddlehead
06-02-2013, 08:14
The PCT will have a 500 mile stretch without resupply.
So, that is not do-able.
Even on skis.
You can't carry that much food.
You'd have to go out and that is far.
No easy way out from the JMT portion of the PCT.
The CDT however, has roads about every 100 miles.
So, yes, more do-able but the trail will be under perhaps 10' (3 meters) of snow when you would need to do it.
I would want a GPS with the route uploaded in there with me.
There could be avalanche danger also.
If you are experienced in determining that, and have good enough backcountry skills to ski aprox 600 miles of snow in CO, then possibly you could do it.
When we did it, we had a support vehicle and were met about every 60-100 miles in CO so we could get dry clothes, and good food whenever we saw it.
We thought we could do CO in those conditions but found out differently. (We weren't good skiers and broke our bindings the first day we tried)
We went to snowshoes but they were too heavy when we weren't using them.
So we jumped around and got the CDT finished but it wasn't easy and the jumping around would have been a lot harder had we been hitchhiking.
If you try it, please keep us informed somehow on your whereabouts.
I'd like to follow and see how you do it.
I don't think a SoBo on either the PCT or CDT is a very sound plan with a 9/1 start. More realistic would be a SoBo on the AT but I'm not sure where you go from there. You could always hop around and do the southern parts of the PCT and CDT but I don't see how you finish all three trails by August. Frankly I think you would need a bit of good fortune to finish two trails by August. If you can shift you window by 6 months you would be better off.
Scandinavian
06-03-2013, 12:01
If it hadn't been for the fact that you were poor skiiers, and that you broke your bindings on the first day, how feasible do you reckon skiiing the CDT is? And iif you skip the 500 mile stretch, how about the PCT?
How easy is it to find alternative routes over the difficult passes, ie?
Many believe the PCT just has a single snowy area, the Sierra and once through NoBo, it becomes low elevation snow free hiking. Every point north of the Sierra will have major snow in a normal winter. Get through the Sierra early say March or April and you will have solid snow most or all the way to the border, almost 2000 miles. You might get lucky and have a snow year like this year, I have seen reports that there was a hiker, Old yeller, that hiked SoBo over the winter.
some of the most treacherous areas to cover in snow will not be the Sierra. Areas south of Etna, Northern and central Wa and a couple of areas in Oregon make the Sierra seem like kids play. I have snowshoed the Siera and crossed did the PCT under close to 100% snow cover. resupply, winter storms and avalanche danger would be my biggest concerns.
finally, I hope you are getting most of your information from other sources other than this site. Compared to PCT-L and other sites there are few here that have much input into what you are attempting to do.
Scandinavian
06-14-2013, 00:21
I get an error when I try to download this combined profile: http://parkaymaps.110mb.com/combinedProfiles/combinedProfilesIndex.html Does anyone have it already?