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Chuckie V
02-19-2013, 18:59
There seem to be so many threads going on about the risks and fears of hiking. It seems ours is a fear based culture, but I never really imagined so many hikers would be afraid. It's strange too, because when I'm out hiking and happen upon others, the conversations almost never steer toward what we're afraid of, or what "might happen." Perhaps being indoors raises our fears! I know the thought of being indoors all my life scares the living hell out of me! If hiking on the AT or anywhere else is deemed a risk, it's best to take some risks, I think.

Prime Time
02-19-2013, 19:11
Yes, true, but it seems that most of the fears are not of the outdoors themselves, but about other people in the outdoors. I don't worry about it but I sometimes think about it if I'm alone in a shelter late at night close to a road or a town and I hear something I can't identify. Just human nature I think. Booeyman stuff from when we were children.

Lone Wolf
02-19-2013, 19:11
so is this just a statement or what?

Chuckie V
02-19-2013, 19:14
so is this just a statement or what?

Are people not allowed to think out loud here?

Lone Wolf
02-19-2013, 19:16
Are people not allowed to think out loud here?

sure. are you afraid or not?

Chuckie V
02-19-2013, 19:19
sure. are you afraid or not?

Of contracting Lyme disease, yes. But not of other people, though that entirely depends on the individual.

vamelungeon
02-19-2013, 19:20
I'm not and have never been afraid of the woods nor anything that lives there. I am, however, always prepared for evil humans who might be found there and would do me harm. I'm not afraid. I am prudent.

Lone Wolf
02-19-2013, 19:21
most hikers are afraid of everything associated with the outdoors. not just other humans

WingedMonkey
02-19-2013, 19:28
I sometimes wonder where people that don't like the woods get these fears, then the other day I landed on Wikipedia's entry for the Appalachian Trail.

In a side bar they list,

Hazards:
Severe weather
American Black Bear
Tick-borne diseases
Mosquitos
Yellowjackets
Biting flies
Chiggers
Steep grades
Limited water
Diarrhea from water
Poison ivy
Venomous snakes

I wonder who edited this least of "hazards"?

slims
02-19-2013, 19:32
Haven't you heard that breathing too much is bad for you? Smiling too.

Rasty
02-19-2013, 19:32
most hikers are afraid of everything associated with the outdoors. not just other humans

Wolves are scary in their natural habitat. Not a problem on the AT though.

snowblind
02-19-2013, 19:34
Only recall feeling fear a few times on trail.
- Night-hiking in the rain and mist up White Cap after a 16 mile day. Exhausted and going over a mountain in very very poor visibility, at night, is not fun.
- Hearing that bull moose call 100~ ft behind me during rutting season. Rutting season. Moose. Enough said!
- Doing 11+ miles over Franconia Ridge on a clear sunny day with just over a Liter of water. Wasn't sure I was going to make it to Liberty Spring Campsite.
- Walking up on a porcupine in the middle of the trail. First encounter w/ that animal ever. Didn't know if it would 'charge' or not. (I have to laugh about that now!!)

Fear concerning people? Not really. Kept my eye on a few people here and there when sharing a shelter, but never really ran across people that put fear in me.

ChuckBrown
02-19-2013, 19:36
Oh man yellow jackets, I was in Vernon nj, dropped my pack to go into post office. Did my business, came out and put my pack back on and , yikes, I was stung by a bee that was on the inside of my shoulder strap. That left a mark.

tiptoe
02-19-2013, 19:41
Well said, Chuckie V. We do have a culture of fear. People seem to be afraid of new ideas, of risk, of each other. Every new product carries a ton of warnings, which are meant to ward off litigation, I suppose, but make people wary of doing or using anything. Politics (let's not go there) are confrontational, religion (nor there) is confrontational. When I hike, be it a short walk in the park or a long backpacking trip, I feel peaceful and relaxed most of the time. I enjoy the problem-solving aspects and try to make good decisions. Most of the people I meet seem to be in that frame of mind, too.

garlic08
02-19-2013, 19:48
The trails and woods are benign places, full of peace and God. I get nervous sometimes in town and traveling to the trailhead, then I relax.

I once saw a list of the things hikers are most afraid of (Backpacker Magazine, I think). Next to that was a list of things that actually hurt people in the woods. The two lists are almost exactly opposite. For instance, slips and falls are the number one risk, and it's the last thing most people are afraid of. Wild animals top the list of fear, and are at the bottom of the actual list.

SoCalled
02-19-2013, 19:53
Yea. Thats why I always carry gold when I hike in case of global collapse.

(but I do agree with you)

Basiphobia : (fear of walking)
Avoidance of walking because of the fear that something dreadful will happen as a result; such as, collapsing and dying.

Colter
02-19-2013, 20:10
... The two lists are almost exactly opposite. For instance, slips and falls are the number one risk, and it's the last thing most people are afraid of. Wild animals top the list of fear, and are at the bottom of the actual list.

Isn't that the truth. If anyone finds that article, please let me know.

rickb
02-19-2013, 20:17
For instance, slips and falls are the number one risk, and it's the last thing most people are afraid of.

Even in the last 200 miles of a thru hike?

: )

hikerboy57
02-19-2013, 20:46
There are indeed (who might say Nay) gloomy & hypochondriac minds, inhabitants of diseased bodies, disgusted with the present, & despairing of the future; always counting that the worst will happen, because it may happen. To these I say How much pain have cost us the evils which have never happened!”
Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, Apr. 8, 1816

takethisbread
02-19-2013, 20:55
I am mostly afraid of mice. On the trail, I am most often spooked that fearsome predator; the squirrel

hikerboy57
02-19-2013, 20:58
I am mostly afraid of mice. On the trail, I am most often spooked that fearsome predator; the squirrel
the red squirrel is to be feared. he is ruthless.
and lets not forget


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nvs5pqf-DMA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nvs5pqf-DMA

johnnybgood
02-19-2013, 20:58
It has been said that the fear of the unknown is fear itself. Nothing can be done about unfounded fears exept confidence in oneself to handle whatever life tosses your way.

Pedaling Fool
02-19-2013, 21:01
I don't know why, but hikers do seem to be a group of scaredy-cats.

Malto
02-19-2013, 21:09
I think it's pretty easy to explain..... There are many very inexperienced hikers and wanna-be hikers on here. I suspect there is an strong inverse correlation between hiking experience and fear of the multitude of "dangers".

Lone Wolf
02-19-2013, 21:13
I don't know why, but hikers do seem to be a group of scaredy-cats. scared of the water, ticks, bears, pain, rain, boogie men, sleeping alone, and their own damn shadows :cool:

canoe
02-19-2013, 21:20
simply put....inexperiance

HikerMom58
02-19-2013, 21:29
I don't know why, but hikers do seem to be a group of scaredy-cats.

[QUOTE=Lone Wolf;1421138]scared of the water, ticks, bears, pain, rain, boogie men, sleeping alone, and their own damn shadows :cool:

You both just made a negative interpretation even though there are no definite facts that convincingly support your conclusion.

Seems to me like you pick out a single negative thought and dwell on it exclusively so that your vision of all reality becomes darkened, like the drop of ink that discolors the entire beaker of water.

Lone Wolf
02-19-2013, 21:30
[QUOTE=john gault;1421119]I don't know why, but hikers do seem to be a group of scaredy-cats.



You both just made a negative interpretation even though there are no definite facts that convincingly support your conclusion.

Seems to me like you pick out a single negative thought and dwell on it exclusively so that your vision of all reality becomes darkened, like the drop of ink that discolors the entire beaker of water.

sure :rolleyes:

WalksInDark
02-19-2013, 21:54
I am deathly afraid of:

1) Running out of toilet, or any other sanitary, paper :eek:
2) Running out of water
3) Running out of food
4) Running out of semi-clean underwear (don't ask!) :(
5) Running out of energy
6) Running into wasps/hornets/yellow jackets
7) Running into large groups of: scouts; drunks; or vegetarians
8) Running into hikers who have decided to take their missionary lectures into the great outdoors
9) Finding half eaten insects or rodent droppings in my food :mad:
10) Getting back to my car in the dark... being really hungry and tired...in a remote location where no one else is around...seeing no bars on my mobile phone...and finding out I left the interior light(s) on in my car....and now have to wait until day break or later to get my dead car battery jump started! :datz:datz

atj_Hiker
02-19-2013, 22:07
I'm only afraid of what could happen to my boys or what could happen to me when I got home after something happened to my boys.
I think it's important to have a healthy respect for mother nature and be prepared for anything but being afraid isn't a fun way to live. You'll met more crazy people off the trail than you will on the trail. I'm not a gambling type of guy but I like those odds.

kayak karl
02-19-2013, 22:18
there have been a lot of threads on this and i don't get it. there are less way of getting hurt in the woods then in daily like. is everybody scared to get out of bed in the morning too?

MuddyWaters
02-19-2013, 23:07
I sometimes wonder where people that don't like the woods get these fears, then the other day I landed on Wikipedia's entry for the Appalachian Trail.

In a side bar they list,

Hazards:
Severe weather
American Black Bear
Tick-borne diseases
Mosquitos
Yellowjackets
Biting flies
Chiggers
Steep grades
Limited water
Diarrhea from water
Poison ivy
Venomous snakes

I wonder who edited this least of "hazards"?


Some people have most of those in their yards. Not much in the way of real hazards.

Hairbear
02-19-2013, 23:14
Fear comes from a lifetime of being exposed to the preconditiond response to possible danger. We make all decisions based on possible dangers. The saying money makes the world go round,well its not its ear of not having money that makes the world go round.

Hairbear
02-19-2013, 23:16
Fear comes from a lifetime of being exposed to the preconditiond response to possible danger. We make all decisions based on possible dangers. The saying money makes the world go round,well its not its ear of not having money that makes the world go round.

Thats fear not ear darn the sausage fingers anyway.

Maddoxsjohnston
02-19-2013, 23:38
My greatest fear is having my car keyed or having the tires slashed in a TN trailhead since my car has an SC liscence plate. Tensions are high because sc is on the winning side of football as of late. I usually back into parking space because of this.

Odd Man Out
02-20-2013, 00:46
I think I have seen this posted before, but it seems to be worth another look and applies to several on-going threads. Hilarious

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEOFDwWv4fk

Mountain Mike
02-20-2013, 00:54
I think I have seen this posted before, but it seems to be worth another look and applies to several on-going threads. Hilarious

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEOFDwWv4fk

I have to bookmark that one! That covers about %80 of the questions on WB!

rocketsocks
02-20-2013, 00:58
I have to bookmark that one! That covers about %80 of the questions on WB!Book marked!...notice how she pronounces "Appalachian" funny!

Dr. Professor
02-20-2013, 01:31
I'm scared sometimes, but I'm not afraid to admit it. A little fear is healthy. Too much fear is as bad as too little fear.

Mountain Mike
02-20-2013, 01:40
I'm scared sometimes, but I'm not afraid to admit it. A little fear is healthy. Too much fear is as bad as too little fear.

Great quote!

prain4u
02-20-2013, 01:52
It is good to have some "fear". People without any fear often end up being fatalities or having to be rescued by authorities. I think that there are varying degrees of fear (or various "kinds" of fear). The real issue is how we respond to (or "harness") that fear.

On one hand, I think there is a "healthy fear" that helps to keep us safe. Thus, we take appropriate safeguards and appropriate precautions. Examples: Don't pitch a tent under a "widow maker". Get off of a summit or bald when lightening is approaching. Take appropriate precautions around animals (i.e don't pet a porcupine!). Pack appropriate clothes for the anticipated weather/season. Don't fully trust all people in all situations. "Fear" can be a good and beneficial thing--because it helps us to take appropriate precautions. (I think "healthy respect" is perhaps a better term than "fear").

Then there is the type of fear that starts to become irrational and paralyzing. It is one thing to regularly look for ticks on one's body and to perhaps even carry a prescription for antibiotics. It is another thing to "freak out" and to be afraid to go hiking because of ticks. It is one thing to be "appropriately wary" of certain strangers (and to take reasonable precautions such as not camping alone near roads or trailheads). It is quite another thing to think that you must carry pepper spray, a gun and live in total fear of all people that one meets. It is reasonable to appropriately safeguard one's food from bears and other critters. It is irrational to be afraid to go hiking/camping because of the bears--or to carry the huge can of bear spray and and assault rifle because of the bears.

Fear is a good and natural thing. A healthy response to our fears is what helps to keep us safe and alive. It is the irrational and excessive responses to fear that are problematic.

BirdBrain
02-20-2013, 02:19
There are indeed (who might say Nay) gloomy & hypochondriac minds, inhabitants of diseased bodies, disgusted with the present, & despairing of the future; always counting that the worst will happen, because it may happen. To these I say How much pain have cost us the evils which have never happened!”
Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, Apr. 8, 1816

The second I started reading this I knew it had to be a quote. Too many capital letters.

Mountain Mike
02-20-2013, 02:19
It is good to have some "fear". People without any fear often end up being fatalities or having to be rescued by authorities. I think that there are varying degrees of fear (or various "kinds" of fear). The real issue is how we respond to (or "harness") that fear.

On one hand, I think there is a "healthy fear" that helps to keep us safe. Thus, we take appropriate safeguards and appropriate precautions. Examples: Don't pitch a tent under a "widow maker". Get off of a summit or bald when lightening is approaching. Take appropriate precautions around animals (i.e don't pet a porcupine!). Pack appropriate clothes for the anticipated weather/season. Don't fully trust all people in all situations. "Fear" can be a good and beneficial thing--because it helps us to take appropriate precautions. (I think "healthy respect" is perhaps a better term than "fear").

Then there is the type of fear that starts to become irrational and paralyzing. It is one thing to regularly look for ticks on one's body and to perhaps even carry a prescription for antibiotics. It is another thing to "freak out" and to be afraid to go hiking because of ticks. It is one thing to be "appropriately wary" of certain strangers (and to take reasonable precautions such as not camping alone near roads or trailheads). It is quite another thing to think that you must carry pepper spray, a gun and live in total fear of all people that one meets. It is reasonable to appropriately safeguard one's food from bears and other critters. It is irrational to be afraid to go hiking/camping because of the bears--or to carry the huge can of bear spray and and assault rifle because of the bears.

Fear is a good and natural thing. A healthy response to our fears is what helps to keep us safe and alive. It is the irrational and excessive responses to fear that are problematic.

I agree! I remember an old article from Playboy (yeah I did read a few of them) on statistics. The author rode a motorcycle. So to beat the statistics, he only rode it at night, in the rain or other adverse conditions, over unfamiliar roads away from home. Statistically that was the safest!

Use common sense & you will be fine. In all my hiking I've had worse luck with fire ants when I lived in FL. I'm somewhat allergic to them. It's not the big things I worry about, it's the little ones that will sneak up on you. Like running out of TP.

OzJacko
02-20-2013, 02:27
I think the words fear and afraid are poorly defined and mean greatly varying things to different people.
When I say I am afraid of mice, I am afraid of the damage they can cause to my gear and the health hazard they represent to my food and how this can lessen the experience of my hike.
I have no "fear" of them. Ticks concern me because of the ramifications of contracting Lyme disease.
True fear is something a human being who is "abnormal" in behaviour may cause me, particularly if armed, but realistically I am only apprehensive and cautious about things not fearful of them.
To not treat something that can harm you with some kind of respect is foolishness not bravery.

BirdBrain
02-20-2013, 02:31
I find it hard to believe that people that hike the trail would be mostly people that fear things on the trail. I might not understand this for the same reason I don't understand why people watch horror films. More of a mystery to me is how people have the ability to know what people fear or don't fear without even having met them. Quite a gift. I think it is more likely that people don't fear the trail. It makes no sense to me that people would make such a great sacrifice just so they can scare themselves. My only fear is that I won't be able to hike the whole thing and will be relegated to only sections. Perhaps some are equating studious planning with being afraid. Some people like to just run headlong into the dark and call others scaredy cats if they insist on getting a flashlight 1st.

BirdBrain
02-20-2013, 02:33
I am only apprehensive and cautious about things not fearful of them.
To not treat something that can harm you with some kind of respect is foolishness not bravery.

If I knew you were writing this I would have not wasted my time typing my confusing thesis. I would have just quoted the above and said +1 on that.

JAK
02-20-2013, 07:27
It isn't necessary to eliminate risk. It can actually be harmful.
It is sufficient, and arguable most healthy, to balance risk and reward.

This is especially true when it come to children.
If toddlers did not take risks, they would never learn to walk.

I say bring back the heavy steel playgrounds,
and go karts and tree forts made by kids without building codes.

Prime Time
02-20-2013, 08:47
I think the words fear and afraid are poorly defined and mean greatly varying things to different people.
When I say I am afraid of mice, I am afraid of the damage they can cause to my gear and the health hazard they represent to my food and how this can lessen the experience of my hike.
I have no "fear" of them. Ticks concern me because of the ramifications of contracting Lyme disease.
True fear is something a human being who is "abnormal" in behaviour may cause me, particularly if armed, but realistically I am only apprehensive and cautious about things not fearful of them.
To not treat something that can harm you with some kind of respect is foolishness not bravery.
Well said OzJacko, but you can save your breath (fingers?). None of the "I fear nothing" posts have anything to do with logic or common sense. They have everything to do with some men (never women, they're much smarter) needing to prove how macho they are and never admitting to "fearing" anything. If they don't "fear" ticks, does that mean they ignore them? Or how about a deranged looking guy following them on the trail with no pack and a machete? Everyone's getting hung up on the word fear. Let's just call it things we worry about. Surely we all do some of that? Even Tarzan.

Capt Nat
02-20-2013, 08:49
Running out of TP? OMG!!!!!!!

q-tip
02-20-2013, 09:01
For me it is about a healthly respect for the outdoors. I have been in serious trouble early in my hiking career with heat exhaustion, fatigue, cold. With experience I know what works for me to maintain these three priorities, and I can accomplish this with a 15 lb. base kit:

1) Safe
2) Dry
3) Warm

tdoczi
02-20-2013, 10:21
Of contracting Lyme disease, yes. But not of other people, though that entirely depends on the individual.

thats funny, because i actually have the same thoughts about people who afraid of lyme that you have about people who are afraid of everything else. when i get a tick i yank it off with ym fingers and get on with my life without a second thought. folks who panic and start taking antibiotics and having blood tests i think are more than a bit silly.

whats that saying about people who live in glass houses?

tdoczi
02-20-2013, 10:28
To not treat something that can harm you with some kind of respect is foolishness

so is treating something that MAY harm you as if it almost certainly will, which, is something far too many people do and is the the OP's point i think.

Oak88
02-20-2013, 11:38
Haven't you heard that breathing too much is bad for you? Smiling too.

I heard breathing too much ( and exhaling Carbon dioxide) attracks swarms of gnats. I snacked on them in Vermont.

Son Driven
02-20-2013, 12:06
Fear is diminished by coming to terms with ones own mortality.

kyhipo
02-20-2013, 13:09
There seem to be so many threads going on about the risks and fears of hiking. It seems ours is a fear based culture, but I never really imagined so many hikers would be afraid. It's strange too, because when I'm out hiking and happen upon others, the conversations almost never steer toward what we're afraid of, or what "might happen." Perhaps being indoors raises our fears! I know the thought of being indoors all my life scares the living hell out of me! If hiking on the AT or anywhere else is deemed a risk, it's best to take some risks, I think.
cant be afraid !life has a way to turn over rocks.ky

Storm
02-20-2013, 13:32
Fear is diminished by coming to terms with ones own mortality.

+ 1 on this. I think the bottom line of most fears is that it might kill us. Real bottom line is that you are going to die anyway. So you can either do it hiding in a corner or facing it eye to eye.

Sara
02-20-2013, 22:57
My biggest hiking fear is the day when I will be physically unable to hike.
Hopefully very far in the future. :)

I agree that most fear is due to inexperience and lack of knowledge.

I just got back this morning from spending a week hiking in Colombia. Some of my co-workers were afraid I was going to be kidnapped by FARC rebels. lol

Wise Old Owl
02-20-2013, 23:28
I fear Vaseline on my cotton balls chafing my feathers....


Folks pack their fears, if they fear starving they pack extra food.. etc.

chiefiepoo
02-21-2013, 00:03
I once saw a list of the things hikers are most afraid of (Backpacker Magazine, I think). Next to that was a list of things that actually hurt people in the woods. The two lists are almost exactly opposite. For instance, slips and falls are the number one risk, and it's the last thing most people are afraid of. Wild animals top the list of fear, and are at the bottom of the actual list.

It was Backpacker magazine. Bears, lightning, being lost were some of the topics. The point of the article was to engage that which is fearful to you by small steps to gain knowledge. The example for bears was something like; read a story about bears in the wild or watch a nat geo video on bears, then go to a zoo to observe bears, then hike in bear habitat with another experienced hiker. Problem solved, no?

rockyiss
02-21-2013, 00:33
I promise you if you got lyme disease you would give it awhole lot more than a second thought .Some of us have been down that road and what it can do to your body isn't very nice.

What I fear is the goverment deciding to tax backpackers and hikers , make us all wear a black box to check how many miles we do and then Whamo ! The cost of backpaking going up . LOL

KingGator and Sons
02-21-2013, 04:02
Maybe because its because I am from urban areas and went through some real crazy stuff in my life, but I don't physically fear anything on the trail.....ESPECIALLY PEOPLE....Its hard to. After being stabbed, shot, etc, how scary REALLY is some friendly hillbilly in NC or VIRGINIA?

KingGator and Sons
02-21-2013, 04:21
Let me change my last post...I am slightly scared of lime disease...that is the truth. That is only because I am ignorant of ticks.

Lone Wolf
02-21-2013, 06:36
Let me change my last post...I am slightly scared of lime disease...that is the truth. That is only because I am ignorant of ticks.

limes don't give you disease

KingGator and Sons
02-21-2013, 07:05
limes don't give you disease

Your right...that misstep ruined my entire post. I should stop paying for Internet.

tdoczi
02-21-2013, 07:36
I promise you if you got lyme disease you would give it awhole lot more than a second thought .Some of us have been down that road and what it can do to your body isn't very nice. lots of things aren't very nice. if we worried about all of them equally the only answer would be to kill ourselves to get away from them.

KingGator and Sons
02-21-2013, 07:38
lots of things aren't very nice. if we worried about all of them equally the only answer would be to kill ourselves to get away from them.

+10000000000000

tdoczi
02-21-2013, 08:05
I think the fear of lyme disease is like the fear of dying in a plane crash. cars are known to be much more dangerous but we don't fear driving as much as flying because we think since we're in control of what happens, where as when we fly we're in someone else's hands. lyme disease is also largely out of our control. I guess I just accept the things that aren't under my control and don't spend energy worrying about them. theres another oft feared disease I wont name that statistically you are more likely to be struck and killed by lightning than contract. I imagine the stats on lyme disease are similar, but I don't think many of us truly are afraid of being struck by lightning.

KingGator and Sons
02-21-2013, 08:09
I think the fear of lyme disease is like the fear of dying in a plane crash. cars are known to be much more dangerous but we don't fear driving as much as flying because we think since we're in control of what happens, where as when we fly we're in someone else's hands. lyme disease is also largely out of our control. I guess I just accept the things that aren't under my control and don't spend energy worrying about them. theres another oft feared disease I wont name that statistically you are more likely to be struck and killed by lightning than contract. I imagine the stats on lyme disease are similar, but I don't think many of us truly are afraid of being struck by lightning.

I agree in terms of normal life, but walking the Appalachian Trail seems to be a higher risk of lyme disease than typical life. I have never even looked up or googled lyme disease until my decision to walk the trail.

tdoczi
02-21-2013, 08:20
I agree in terms of normal life, but walking the Appalachian Trail seems to be a higher risk of lyme disease than typical life. I have never even looked up or googled lyme disease until my decision to walk the trail.

and I work in NYC, which likely puts me at higher than normal risk of being struck and killed by a car or a subway. so? shut ins who never go outside for fear of everything are at a higher than normal risk of dying of carbon monoxide poisoning or perhaps more reasonably any number of ailments that come with inactivity. when you consider all possible risks everything we do puts as more at risk for something. no point in fighting it.

KingGator and Sons
02-21-2013, 08:25
and I work in NYC, which likely puts me at higher than normal risk of being struck and killed by a car or a subway. so? shut ins who never go outside for fear of everything are at a higher than normal risk of dying of carbon monoxide poisoning or perhaps more reasonably any number of ailments that come with inactivity. when you consider all possible risks everything we do puts as more at risk for something. no point in fighting it.

Oh, I feel ya man. This is the first time I have EVER planned an outdoor outing because I feel that very same way. Ive been stabbed, shot, in prison, etc..With that being the case, I definitely am not deathly scared of a tick. However, ignorance makes me curious. I only am concerned with ticks because at this point, I don't know real numbers. Now, if I find out that 5,000 of the 14,000 thru-hikers have gotten it, thats a different story. I would never hike if that was the case...lol

Sarcasm the elf
02-21-2013, 09:41
I think the fear of lyme disease is like the fear of dying in a plane crash. cars are known to be much more dangerous but we don't fear driving as much as flying because we think since we're in control of what happens, where as when we fly we're in someone else's hands. lyme disease is also largely out of our control. ...

That's really not the best analogy for Lyme disease. For those of us that live in the northeast and spend a lot of time outdoors, the odds getting Lyme disease are extremely likely, I've had it twice so far.

A better analogy is that it's like a driver worrying about car crashes; odds are that most drivers will eventually get into a crash, but it's not the end of the world and it shouldn't make people fear driving. In both cases, it just means that they should know how to prevent the problem and know what to do once it happens, and yes, here is plenty you can do to reduce your risk of Lyme disease (or getting into a car crash ;-) )

tdoczi
02-21-2013, 10:04
That's really not the best analogy for Lyme disease. For those of us that live in the northeast and spend a lot of time outdoors, the odds getting Lyme disease are extremely likely, I've had it twice so far.

A better analogy is that it's like a driver worrying about car crashes; odds are that most drivers will eventually get into a crash, but it's not the end of the world and it shouldn't make people fear driving. In both cases, it just means that they should know how to prevent the problem and know what to do once it happens, and yes, here is plenty you can do to reduce your risk of Lyme disease (or getting into a car crash ;-) )

do i not live in the northeast and spend a lot of time outdoors? i certainly do. i also get bit by ticks often enough. i simply chose not to care. it has yet to negatively impact my life in the slightest. now if you said to me "watch out for that patch of grass over there, its full of ticks" would i walk over and dive in just to prove how big and tough and unafraid i am? no. but i dont care or use insect repellant of any kind. the notion of taking any antibiotic "just in case" is lunacy to me, and the frequency with which i do discover a tick on my person would make it a serious hinderance if i were to get a blood test every time it happened. whatever, its all good.

tdoczi
02-21-2013, 10:17
"Tick bites often go unnoticed because of the small size of the tick in its nymphal stage, as well as tick secretions that prevent the host from feeling any itch or pain from the bite. However, transmission is quite rare, with only about 1% of recognized tick bites resulting in Lyme disease; this may be because an infected tick must be attached for at least a day for transmission to occur.[ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_disease#cite_note-pmid11450660-37)37 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_disease#cite_note-pmid11450660-37)] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_disease#cite_note-pmid11450660-37)"

anyone know the odds on lightning?

to summarize- you dont even notice most bites from ticks the size which carry lyme, and out fo the ones you do notice, about 1% cause transmission. worth worrying about? not nearly.

Lone Wolf
02-21-2013, 10:52
i ain't skeered of water therefore i don' filter or treat it

Mags
02-21-2013, 11:03
That's really not the best analogy for Lyme disease. For those of us that live in the northeast and spend a lot of time outdoors, the odds getting Lyme disease are extremely likely, I've had it twice so far.

)

Indeed. My brother, who is more of a runner/gym workout kinda guy, was diagnosed with lyme disease.

He lives in suburban RI.

Lyme disease is a real concern if you live in the northeast.

tdoczi
02-21-2013, 11:37
i ain't skeered of water therefore i don' filter or treat it

some people dont and nothing bad happens to them. ive more than once considered with how lazy and messy i am with aquamira if it was really even doing anything the way i probably do it wrong half the time.

treetop flyer
02-21-2013, 11:52
I am new to this forum and new to hiking. Backpacking on the AT is something I have always wanted to do, and have finally decided that now is the time. I have been following this thread with interest. I think many of the posters here are confusing fear with uncertainty of risk. I am a private pilot and flying is by its very nature riskier than driving or walking. There is much less room for error. However, not all flying activities carry the same level of risk. Flying on a clear blue day is much safer than flying in low visibility at night with thunderstorms around. My experience in flying has helped me understand the various risks associated with flying, and I am able to reduce the chance something bad will happen by avoiding those high risk situations.

It seems that this forum is comprised of two general types of people. There are the newbies like me who are looking for information and the veterans who are gracious enough to pass along their wisdom. I have learned a lot from this process. Those who are new like me, don't yet understand the relative risk associated with hiking activities, or how to minimize those risks and have a safe, enjoyable experience. We are still learning that ticks are more dangerous to your health than bears, and hypothermia is more dangerous than all of them. I don't fear the trail, but until I gain more experience with hiking, I will respect the possible hazards and negative consequences for poor, or uninformed decisions. Simply said, many of us newbies still "don't know what we don't know" and until we do, a healthy respect for the unknown risks is not a bad thing in my opinion. We have a saying in the flying world that the ability to make good decisions is the result of surviving bad decisions. Seems that could have some application here as well.

Thanks again to all who generously provide their input and feedback to those of us who want to join your ranks.

Treetop flyer
Don W

tdoczi
02-21-2013, 12:05
flying is by its very nature riskier than driving

driving is a lot riskier than we think it is, largely because we dont think about it. youre the pilot so ill defer to you but my gut feeling is that hurtling across blacktop on a couple of inches of rubber at 70 MPH isnt really much safer than flying. does flying involve more skill that most of us dont have? sure, thatll i'll buy easily enough, but does an excellent pilot put himself at a greater risk than an excellent driver? not so sure.

HikerMom58
02-21-2013, 12:12
I am new to this forum and new to hiking. Backpacking on the AT is something I have always wanted to do, and have finally decided that now is the time. I have been following this thread with interest. I think many of the posters here are confusing fear with uncertainty of risk. I am a private pilot and flying is by its very nature riskier than driving or walking. There is much less room for error. However, not all flying activities carry the same level of risk. Flying on a clear blue day is much safer than flying in low visibility at night with thunderstorms around. My experience in flying has helped me understand the various risks associated with flying, and I am able to reduce the chance something bad will happen by avoiding those high risk situations.

It seems that this forum is comprised of two general types of people. There are the newbies like me who are looking for information and the veterans who are gracious enough to pass along their wisdom. I have learned a lot from this process. Those who are new like me, don't yet understand the relative risk associated with hiking activities, or how to minimize those risks and have a safe, enjoyable experience. We are still learning that ticks are more dangerous to your health than bears, and hypothermia is more dangerous than all of them. I don't fear the trail, but until I gain more experience with hiking, I will respect the possible hazards and negative consequences for poor, or uninformed decisions. Simply said, many of us newbies still "don't know what we don't know" and until we do, a healthy respect for the unknown risks is not a bad thing in my opinion. We have a saying in the flying world that the ability to make good decisions is the result of surviving bad decisions. Seems that could have some application here as well.

Thanks again to all who generously provide their input and feedback to those of us who want to join your ranks.

Treetop flyer
Don W

:welcome to WB Treetop flyer... your comment is good insight for us, here on WB. Glad we could help you with understanding the risks. I agree with everything you shared with us. Thanks for sharing. :)

Prime Time
02-21-2013, 12:27
Well said treetop flyer, and welcome to WB. BTW, not all the posted opinions are as polarized as with this thread. Most are worse ;)

treetop flyer
02-21-2013, 14:54
driving is a lot riskier than we think it is, largely because we dont think about it. youre the pilot so ill defer to you but my gut feeling is that hurtling across blacktop on a couple of inches of rubber at 70 MPH isnt really much safer than flying. does flying involve more skill that most of us dont have? sure, thatll i'll buy easily enough, but does an excellent pilot put himself at a greater risk than an excellent driver? not so sure.

Folks thanks again for the welcome!

To tdoczi, some stats I ran across recently:

Obviously, this is in total and does not factor in the nuts we may run across on our particular highway.

Fatalities per 100 million miles

Airlines 0.5
Automobile 1.1
Private planes (my world) 12.0

Thus the reason I am always focused on reducing risk.

treetop flyer
Don W

tdoczi
02-21-2013, 14:59
Folks thanks again for the welcome!

To tdoczi, some stats I ran across recently:

Obviously, this is in total and does not factor in the nuts we may run across on our particular highway.

Fatalities per 100 million miles

Airlines 0.5
Automobile 1.1
Private planes (my world) 12.0

Thus the reason I am always focused on reducing risk.

treetop flyer
Don W

i wasnt thinking in terms of just private planes, fair enough.

Rasty
02-21-2013, 15:04
lots of things aren't very nice. if we worried about all of them equally the only answer would be to kill ourselves to get away from them.

Most are too scared to kill themselves!

upstream
02-21-2013, 15:29
So what's wrong with fear? Isn't that what makes stuff fun?

People fear change. That's why hiking is so much fun, it's lots of change.

KingGator and Sons
02-21-2013, 15:39
I am new to this forum and new to hiking. Backpacking on the AT is something I have always wanted to do, and have finally decided that now is the time. I have been following this thread with interest. I think many of the posters here are confusing fear with uncertainty of risk. I am a private pilot and flying is by its very nature riskier than driving or walking. There is much less room for error. However, not all flying activities carry the same level of risk. Flying on a clear blue day is much safer than flying in low visibility at night with thunderstorms around. My experience in flying has helped me understand the various risks associated with flying, and I am able to reduce the chance something bad will happen by avoiding those high risk situations.

It seems that this forum is comprised of two general types of people. There are the newbies like me who are looking for information and the veterans who are gracious enough to pass along their wisdom. I have learned a lot from this process. Those who are new like me, don't yet understand the relative risk associated with hiking activities, or how to minimize those risks and have a safe, enjoyable experience. We are still learning that ticks are more dangerous to your health than bears, and hypothermia is more dangerous than all of them. I don't fear the trail, but until I gain more experience with hiking, I will respect the possible hazards and negative consequences for poor, or uninformed decisions. Simply said, many of us newbies still "don't know what we don't know" and until we do, a healthy respect for the unknown risks is not a bad thing in my opinion. We have a saying in the flying world that the ability to make good decisions is the result of surviving bad decisions. Seems that could have some application here as well.

Thanks again to all who generously provide their input and feedback to those of us who want to join your ranks.

Treetop flyer
Don W

As a fellow newb, this post is RIGHT ON! I agree that the generosity of MOST (not all) the veterans on here is GOLD.

tdoczi
02-21-2013, 15:40
Most are too scared to kill themselves!

no doubt this is due to concern about getting tetanus from a dirty razor, or perhaps the unwanted side effects of whatever pills are handy. rope burn is no fun either.

KingGator and Sons
02-21-2013, 15:41
So what's wrong with fear? Isn't that what makes stuff fun?

People fear change. That's why hiking is so much fun, it's lots of change.

EXACTLY...I write horror novels and love horror movies. That is because FEAR is FUN! Thank you for posting this.

TheYoungOne
02-21-2013, 16:53
Actually I think some AT people fear how they are seen by others. They rather gnaw at a package for 15 minutes then carry a 2oz pocket knife...The AT is safe, other hikers will think you are a paranoid nutcase if you carry a pocket knife. They rather use aqua mira, and would not be caught dead with a filter or a steripen because other hikers will think you are a paranoid nutjob. You have to carry a used gatorade bottle...not a Poweraid or coke bottle...it must be gatorade or you will be shunned.

WB Newbie : "I have a permit to legally carry a handgun in my state, Can I hike along the AT in my state....???

WB Poster #1: " The Trail is safe, THE TRAIL IS SAFE!!!"

WB Poster #2: "OMG , OMG he is talking about guns! Make it stop, MAKE IT STOP!!"

You don't want to be over the top paranoid. Black bears are actually more afraid of people then most people think, and 99.9% of the people you met on the trail will be decent, upstanding folks. Like others have said the major thing you need to worry about is lyme and twisting an ankle. However, if you want to carry whatever lightweight protection on the trail and its "legal" for you do so knock yourself out. If you want to hike the trail with nothing scary, sharp or pointy and let just good kharma to protect you, knock yourself out. Can we just live and let live.

I laugh when I see the thread

I am a 17 year old supermodel hiking alone, should I bring some pepper spray?

No, the trail is safe. No creepy guys will snuggle up against you in the shelter. Just drink from any dirty puddle along the trail and pet any wild animal you see. Better yet before you drive to Springer go into the trunk of your car and throw out the spare tire, jack, and jumper cables, because you will not need them anymore.

KingGator and Sons
02-21-2013, 20:02
Actually I think some AT people fear how they are seen by others. They rather gnaw at a package for 15 minutes then carry a 2oz pocket knife...The AT is safe, other hikers will think you are a paranoid nutcase if you carry a pocket knife. They rather use aqua mira, and would not be caught dead with a filter or a steripen because other hikers will think you are a paranoid nutjob. You have to carry a used gatorade bottle...not a Poweraid or coke bottle...it must be gatorade or you will be shunned.

WB Newbie : "I have a permit to legally carry a handgun in my state, Can I hike along the AT in my state....???

WB Poster #1: " The Trail is safe, THE TRAIL IS SAFE!!!"

WB Poster #2: "OMG , OMG he is talking about guns! Make it stop, MAKE IT STOP!!"

You don't want to be over the top paranoid. Black bears are actually more afraid of people then most people think, and 99.9% of the people you met on the trail will be decent, upstanding folks. Like others have said the major thing you need to worry about is lyme and twisting an ankle. However, if you want to carry whatever lightweight protection on the trail and its "legal" for you do so knock yourself out. If you want to hike the trail with nothing scary, sharp or pointy and let just good kharma to protect you, knock yourself out. Can we just live and let live.

I laugh when I see the thread

I am a 17 year old supermodel hiking alone, should I bring some pepper spray?

No, the trail is safe. No creepy guys will snuggle up against you in the shelter. Just drink from any dirty puddle along the trail and pet any wild animal you see. Better yet before you drive to Springer go into the trunk of your car and throw out the spare tire, jack, and jumper cables, because you will not need them anymore.

Perfect post....You are right...I have been part of this community for a week and have noticed that it is like high school.

rocketsocks
02-21-2013, 20:13
Perfect post....You are right...I have been part of this community for a week and have noticed that it is like high school.a week, you been around longer that that.....No?

KingGator and Sons
02-21-2013, 20:21
a week, you been around longer that that.....No?

Part of me wishes I could say yes to that and then again, part of me thinks a week has been too long...lol....Yes, it's only been around a week. 2/16/13 to be exact.

rocketsocks
02-21-2013, 20:27
Part of me wishes I could say yes to that and then again, part of me thinks a week has been too long...lol....Yes, it's only been around a week. 2/16/13 to be exact.Oh, I confusing you with someone who had a blog last year...it'll come to me.

KingGator and Sons
02-21-2013, 20:52
Oh, I confusing you with someone who had a blog last year...it'll come to me.

No problem at all...I'm happy to be here and meet most of you. It's been a rough start because I am so open, but overall, this place and community overall has been a blast.

Hairbear
02-21-2013, 21:18
My biggest hiking fear is the day when I will be physically unable to hike.
Hopefully very far in the future. :)

I agree that most fear is due to inexperience and lack of knowledge.

I just got back this morning from spending a week hiking in Colombia. Some of my co-workers were afraid I was going to be kidnapped by FARC rebels. lol

plus one...you have a beautiful smile by the way.

Teacher & Snacktime
02-21-2013, 22:41
I think the fear of lyme disease is like the fear of dying in a plane crash. cars are known to be much more dangerous but we don't fear driving as much as flying because we think since we're in control of what happens, where as when we fly we're in someone else's hands. lyme disease is also largely out of our control. I guess I just accept the things that aren't under my control and don't spend energy worrying about them. theres another oft feared disease I wont name that statistically you are more likely to be struck and killed by lightning than contract. I imagine the stats on lyme disease are similar, but I don't think many of us truly are afraid of being struck by lightning.

You don't need to fear lyme disease as much as you need to be aware of it's possibility. I don't know about the south, but it is a very real thing from NY north, and needs to be taken seriously. Learn about it, be prepared to recognize the symptoms because you can't really prevent it. Don't take this threat casually or it will cost you....this I know from personal experience.

KingGator and Sons
02-21-2013, 22:43
You don't need to fear lyme disease as much as you need to be aware of it's possibility. I don't know about the south, but it is a very real thing from NY north, and needs to be taken seriously. Learn about it, be prepared to recognize the symptoms because you can't really prevent it. Don't take this threat casually or it will cost you....this I know from personal experience.

This is why it is slightly intimidating to be honest. This is someone from THAT area that we speak of. If they say "watch out", I believe em.

Deerleg
02-21-2013, 22:55
... but I don't think many of us truly are afraid of being struck by lightning.
I love a good thunderstorm! ...but my moment of true fear was unexpectedly finding myself crossing the east peak of Thunderhead in the Smokies on a July afternoon with with lighting stabbing the mountain on ether side of me with no where to hide...true fear for a few minutes as my skin tingled and hair stood on end, but what a rush!

KingGator and Sons
02-21-2013, 23:01
I love a good thunderstorm! ...but my moment of true fear was unexpectedly finding myself crossing the east peak of Thunderhead in the Smokies on a July afternoon with with lighting stabbing the mountain on ether side of me with no where to hide...true fear for a few minutes as my skin tingled and hair stood on end, but what a rush!

Wow, that sounds exciting. I don't know how I would react.

Teacher & Snacktime
02-21-2013, 23:02
This is why it is slightly intimidating to be honest. This is someone from THAT area that we speak of. If they say "watch out", I believe em.

No need to be intimidated....just be conscious of what to look out for. If you or one of the boys start to run a fever or feel like you might have the flu, check your bod for a bullseye ring (the bite site). You probably won't find one. Either way, go to a doctor and tell them you may have been exposed to ticks and would like a test for lyme. (this is not a big deal...all docs are used to this and it's a simple blood test). The test will probably be negative, but likely the doc will put you on a script for dioxycillin anyway, just to be safe. It's a simple antibiotic and shouldn't bother you or keep you from getting right back on the trail. You may still feel crappy for a day or two, but it will pass whether it was lyme, the flu or fatigue.

One bit of advice....check the boys before bed every night....they'll hate it, but insist. You'll never see the deer ticks, but the other kind are icky and gross and need to be removed, even if they won't hurt you.

hikerboy57
02-21-2013, 23:08
Wow, that sounds exciting. I don't know how I would react.
its not exciting. its fear.mother nature doesnt play favorites. ive had my hair stand on edge coming off lafayette one year with a storm bearing down. i was already close to cover when it first hit, i was just glad i wasnt anywhere near the ridge, wasnt until i got below treeline that i felt safe. i dont think i ever moved so fast down that mountain

KingGator and Sons
02-21-2013, 23:13
No need to be intimidated....just be conscious of what to look out for. If you or one of the boys start to run a fever or feel like you might have the flu, check your bod for a bullseye ring (the bite site). You probably won't find one. Either way, go to a doctor and tell them you may have been exposed to ticks and would like a test for lyme. (this is not a big deal...all docs are used to this and it's a simple blood test). The test will probably be negative, but likely the doc will put you on a script for dioxycillin anyway, just to be safe. It's a simple antibiotic and shouldn't bother you or keep you from getting right back on the trail. You may still feel crappy for a day or two, but it will pass whether it was lyme, the flu or fatigue.

One bit of advice....check the boys before bed every night....they'll hate it, but insist. You'll never see the deer ticks, but the other kind are icky and gross and need to be removed, even if they won't hurt you.

Wonderful advice and I appreciate every bit of it. Let me ask you, if we can't see the deer ticks, how can we possibly get them off within 48 hours or whatever the time frame is?

KingGator and Sons
02-21-2013, 23:14
its not exciting. its fear.mother nature doesnt play favorites. ive had my hair stand on edge coming off lafayette one year with a storm bearing down. i was already close to cover when it first hit, i was just glad i wasnt anywhere near the ridge, wasnt until i got below treeline that i felt safe. i dont think i ever moved so fast down that mountain

Wow, that sounds amazing and horrible at the same time.

Deerleg
02-21-2013, 23:16
...its fear.mother nature doesnt play favorites....

That says it all. Very scary few minutes!

Teacher & Snacktime
02-21-2013, 23:48
Wonderful advice and I appreciate every bit of it. Let me ask you, if we can't see the deer ticks, how can we possibly get them off within 48 hours or whatever the time frame is?

Thus my comment earlier that you can't avoid them. You'll probably never see them on you, so your best bet is to just be prepared for the symptoms. Keep as clean as you can and check all the hairy areas (unfortunately the groin is the most likely spot to find them), but they're miniscule and you probably won't see them. I guarantee the boys won't "self check" sufficiently.

What my grandson and I are doing is this: we're wearing short gaiters over our boots....both boots and gaiters are treated with premetherin. This is the stuff in Advantix (for dogs) and is probably the most effective product on the market (I can't use DEET). Our tent will also be treated on the outside. I've heard glowing testimonials about this product and can vouch for its effectiveness on our pups each year. Just be careful how you apply it....stay away from applied items until they are fully dry...keep pets away (especially cats) until fully dry. It can also be applied to certain items of clothing, but I haven't researched that yet. Check with an outfitter...or start a new Permetherin forum for advice for the experts here. I'll certainly read that thread!

Sarcasm the elf
02-21-2013, 23:58
Wonderful advice and I appreciate every bit of it. Let me ask you, if we can't see the deer ticks, how can we possibly get them off within 48 hours or whatever the time frame is?

You will be able to see deer ticks of you know what you're looking for, just take time to learn about them and be patient and careful when you check for them. I quickly check myself several times throughout the day and remove the majority of them before they've had a chance to really attach, I then check thoroughly at night once in my tent. The little buggers take a while to attach and from what I've read they need to be attached for a good while before they risk transmitting Lyme disease, so checking often can actually prevent disease transmission.

Living in Connecticut, I have removed literally thousands of ticks from myself, my cats and my dogs over they years and have gotten quite good at doing it with my fingernails. However in the last year I finally found a tick removal gadget that actually works and does a better job than I can by hand.

http://www.ticktwister.com/order.html

The Tick twister comes in a two pack with a large and small tool. The small one, when used as instructed is the best way I've ever found to remove deer ticks. Just one warning, the tools are very small and easy to lose (I'm on my second pair). If you do buy them, make sure to tie a string or put a several inch long streamer of duct tape on the handle of the tool so that it is big enough to see and can't get lost as easily.

Dr. Professor
02-22-2013, 00:30
Great quote!

Thanks Mike.

tdoczi
02-22-2013, 00:43
You don't need to fear lyme disease as much as you need to be aware of it's possibility. I don't know about the south, but it is a very real thing from NY north, and needs to be taken seriously. Learn about it, be prepared to recognize the symptoms because you can't really prevent it. Don't take this threat casually or it will cost you....this I know from personal experience.

for those who missed it the first time-""Tick bites often go unnoticed because of the small size of the tick in its nymphal stage, as well as tick secretions that prevent the host from feeling any itch or pain from the bite. However, transmission is quite rare, with only about 1% of recognized tick bites resulting in Lyme disease; this may be because an infected tick must be attached for at least a day for transmission to occur.[ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_disease#cite_note-pmid11450660-37)37 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_disease#cite_note-pmid11450660-37)] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_disease#cite_note-pmid11450660-37)"

tiptoe
02-22-2013, 11:01
Like my fellow CT resident Sarcasm the Elf, I have removed zillions of ticks over the years from my pets and myself. Often I don't see them, but I feel them crawling before they embed. Or I run my hand over my body and feel a small bump. They can land anywhere on your body, but I've noticed that they like to be close to the blood supply: at the back of the knees, inner bend of the elbows, groin or upper thigh.

HikerMom58
02-22-2013, 11:29
We live in VA. We are always hiking in the woods somewhere & we take our dogs with us. This Fall,we had both Cairns tested for Lyme. They both tested highly positive for the disease. :( We keep them on Frontline, as a first defense, but somehow they got the disease anyway.

My mother-in-law got Lyme in Lynchburg VA from working in her back yard ONLY. She's not an "outdoorsy" person at all. She felt sick- no bulls eye rash. Luckily, her doctor tested her for Lyme. She took the med. and has been feeling fine ever since.

My fear of the disease has gone way down after witnessing my mother-in -law's experience with it. We still find it so hard to believe that she got Lyme when not one of us, including my daughter, who has hiked over 1/2 the trail has ever got it, so far. :)

rickb
02-22-2013, 11:41
for those who missed it the first time-""Tick bites often go unnoticed because of the small size of the tick in its nymphal stage, as well as tick secretions that prevent the host from feeling any itch or pain from the bite. However, transmission is quite rare, with only about 1% of recognized tick bites resulting in Lyme disease; this may be because an infected tick must be attached for at least a day for transmission to occur.[ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_disease#cite_note-pmid11450660-37)37 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_disease#cite_note-pmid11450660-37)] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_disease#cite_note-pmid11450660-37)"It's hard to know how to interpret that. I am of the understanding that if you remove an embedded tick within 24 hours, then 0 out of 100 of those bite will result in Lyme disease.That's the good news. The bad news is that for those of us living on the Northeast or paying attention to the experience of our fellow hikers, Lyme is rather common and something we need to avoid.What to do then? Read up.I also think hikers should consider asking their physician for a script of Cipro (I think that's the one anyway). A single dose has been shown to be an effective prophylactic when you find an engorged tick that has been on you for something between 36 and 72 hours. Again, not sure about the exact details- you can always google them up. Having the antibiotic in hand is something you might well want to do on advance, however.

rocketsocks
02-22-2013, 11:58
It's hard to know how to interpret that. I am of the understanding that if you remove an embedded tick within 24 hours, then 0 out of 100 of those bite will result in Lyme disease.That's the good news. The bad news is that for those of us living on the Northeast or paying attention to the experience of our fellow hikers, Lyme is rather common and something we need to avoid.What to do then? Read up.I also think hikers should consider asking their physician for a script of Cipro (I think that's the one anyway). A single dose has been shown to be an effective prophylactic when you find an engorged tick that has been on you for something between 36 and 72 hours. Again, not sure about the exact details- you can always google them up. Having the antibiotic in hand is something you might well want to do on advance, however.That's a fine idea, I get tired of doctors looking at me when I make a request, "guess you been pokin round on the internet" "Yeah, yeah, sure have", and there tone suggests ("oh, so your a doctor now too.) I quit three doctors over the last two years for that kinda bedside manner, nobody needs that crap.

jcavenagh
02-22-2013, 12:00
I think a little fear is something we all desire. Just that small bit of thrill that we are overcoming some undefiend odds against us is part of the enjoyment of outdoor life. My fear is that I will not be able to get a fire going and it will be cold and wet. It has only happemned to me once, but it is a fear I carry with me.

KingGator and Sons
02-22-2013, 12:04
You will be able to see deer ticks of you know what you're looking for, just take time to learn about them and be patient and careful when you check for them. I quickly check myself several times throughout the day and remove the majority of them before they've had a chance to really attach, I then check thoroughly at night once in my tent. The little buggers take a while to attach and from what I've read they need to be attached for a good while before they risk transmitting Lyme disease, so checking often can actually prevent disease transmission.

Living in Connecticut, I have removed literally thousands of ticks from myself, my cats and my dogs over they years and have gotten quite good at doing it with my fingernails. However in the last year I finally found a tick removal gadget that actually works and does a better job than I can by hand.

http://www.ticktwister.com/order.html

The Tick twister comes in a two pack with a large and small tool. The small one, when used as instructed is the best way I've ever found to remove deer ticks. Just one warning, the tools are very small and easy to lose (I'm on my second pair). If you do buy them, make sure to tie a string or put a several inch long streamer of duct tape on the handle of the tool so that it is big enough to see and can't get lost as easily.

Thanks for the advice bro, it helps alot. I gotta admit that I laughed at the end of your post though, because I pictured you saying it outloud like a commercial in the middle of the night. lol. Thank you. Also thank you to TEACHER and SNACKTIME. I have to admit, the conflicting reports here have me confused. Will I be able to see them or not? lol

HikerMom58
02-22-2013, 12:17
Thanks for the advice bro, it helps alot. I gotta admit that I laughed at the end of your post though, because I pictured you saying it outloud like a commercial in the middle of the night. lol. Thank you. Also thank you to TEACHER and SNACKTIME. I have to admit, the conflicting reports here have me confused. Will I be able to see them or not? lol

I have to admit, the conflicting reports here have me confused. Will I be able to see them or not? lol

That answer would most likely be a negative.............:D

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/c0.0.368.368/p403x403/539497_10151321156898727_296030983_n.jpg

Capt Nat
02-22-2013, 12:24
Having read this, it sounds like it would be a good idea to pair up with another hiker, preferably opposite sex, and check each other for ticks every afternoon...

Prime Time
02-22-2013, 12:32
I'm literally outside probably 10 hours a day in the summer I remove an average of three to four ticks a day. I check my wife and she checks me in places on our bodies we can't see ourselves. Chimp style. We spend a good 3-5 minutes doing it because you often don't see them at first (my poor wife having to stare at my bare butt for 3 minutes must be grounds for Sainthood). Anyway, do be careful how you remove a tick. Don't just grab it and pull it if it's imbedded because you could leave the head it you, and NEVER try to squish it between your fingernails. If you get infected blood into any open cut, Lyme disease can be transmitted that way as well. Remove it thoroughly but carefully with a tweezers or the twisy gadget mentioned above if the tick has started to bore into you. Remember the majority of ticks are not deer ticks and do not carry Lyme disease, but you just don't know.

Prime Time
02-22-2013, 12:38
Oh also, although I spend a lot of time backpacking and hiking, the vast majority of ticks that I find on myself come from working in the field in front of my house or from mowing our lawn. So it's definitely not just a woods thing. They seem to be much more prevalent in high grasses or other places where they can easily grab on to a passing host.

Teacher & Snacktime
02-22-2013, 12:43
Like my fellow CT resident Sarcasm the Elf, I have removed zillions of ticks over the years from my pets and myself. Often I don't see them, but I feel them crawling before they embed. Or I run my hand over my body and feel a small bump. They can land anywhere on your body, but I've noticed that they like to be close to the blood supply: at the back of the knees, inner bend of the elbows, groin or upper thigh.

Only the deer ticks carry the disease....you probably won't feel their bump or crawl as they are just too small. If you can see it, you likely don't have anything to worry about (except for that other disease.....)


this might help answer any questions http://www.lymeticks.org/46

tdoczi
02-22-2013, 12:53
It's hard to know how to interpret that. I am of the understanding that if you remove an embedded tick within 24 hours, then 0 out of 100 of those bite will result in Lyme disease.That's the good news. The bad news is that for those of us living on the Northeast or paying attention to the experience of our fellow hikers, Lyme is rather common and something we need to avoid.What to do then? Read up.I also think hikers should consider asking their physician for a script of Cipro (I think that's the one anyway). A single dose has been shown to be an effective prophylactic when you find an engorged tick that has been on you for something between 36 and 72 hours. Again, not sure about the exact details- you can always google them up. Having the antibiotic in hand is something you might well want to do on advance, however.

theres nothing to interpret, its a question of believing science or your "experience" which is mostly hearsay and fear mongering.

thanks for the advice. i would never take a antibiotic as a preventive measure. nonsense like that is why we now have things like mrsa to contend with.

tdoczi
02-22-2013, 12:55
That's a fine idea, I get tired of doctors looking at me when I make a request, "guess you been pokin round on the internet" "Yeah, yeah, sure have", and there tone suggests ("oh, so your a doctor now too.) I quit three doctors over the last two years for that kinda bedside manner, nobody needs that crap.
yeah those goofy idiots thinking they know about medicine because they went to med school. the nerve.

Teacher & Snacktime
02-22-2013, 13:03
I'm with you rocketsocks....doctors are supposed to alleviate concerns not be sarcastic asses. If they were more accessible you wouldn't need to look things up on the internet to get answers....and likely confused. If they have the knowledge, there should be a way to get them to share it. Fifteen minutes annually is insufficient time to get health questions answered, but go ahead and try to call the office with a question.....

(this applies to almost all drs in my experience, except for my rheumatologist who is, in fact, God's gift to medicine)

rocketsocks
02-22-2013, 13:03
yeah those goofy idiots thinking they know about medicine because they went to med school. the nerve.Really....:rolleyes: o'coarse there was a little more to it than that. But my point was you have to be your own advocate, especially when your kids are involved, Doctors are real people with real people problems, and they don't always do what might be best for your situation...that is all.


Also, two of my new Doc have a patient portal system on the computer, to ask questions, check records and labs...it's wonderful, and save making an appt. just to ask a follow up question about whatever, I love it.

mrcoffeect
02-22-2013, 13:05
Fear is diminished by coming to terms with ones own mortality.

I love this quote. once you get over that speed bump there is not a whole lot to be scared of. I have looked over the edge of many roofs, and said to myself if you fall from here, whats the worst thing that could happen? Die? And i always reply to myself, no the worst would be if i live thought it, all busted to sh_t and not be able to really live after.

bannerstone
02-22-2013, 13:05
"It's what people know about themselves inside that makes 'em afraid."

The Stranger, Clint Eastwood
High Plains Drifter 1973

rocketsocks
02-22-2013, 13:07
I'm with you rocketsocks....doctors are supposed to alleviate concerns not be sarcastic asses. If they were more accessible you wouldn't need to look things up on the internet to get answers....and likely confused. If they have the knowledge, there should be a way to get them to share it. Fifteen minutes annually is insufficient time to get health questions answered, but go ahead and try to call the office with a question.....

(this applies to almost all drs in my experience, except for my rheumatologist who is, in fact, God's gift to medicine)I have a friend who is a LPN, and she told me that Doctors are paid for about 7min of the time they spend with you, that's not a lot of time when thing are complected. And to be fair, they bill X amount, and are reimbursed 75% less from insurance...crazy

rocketsocks
02-22-2013, 13:12
Really....:rolleyes: o'coarse there was a little more to it than that. But my point was you have to be your own advocate, especially when your kids are involved, Doctors are real people with real people problems, and they don't always do what might be best for your situation...that is all.


Also, two of my new Doc have a patient portal system on the computer, to ask questions, check records and labs...it's wonderful, and save making an appt. just to ask a follow up question about whatever, I love it.

Sorry for the drift...but it's a scared thing

Teacher & Snacktime
02-22-2013, 13:12
Marcus Welby is dead.

tdoczi
02-22-2013, 13:14
Really....:rolleyes: o'coarse there was a little more to it than that. But my point was you have to be your own advocate, especially when your kids are involved, Doctors are real people with real people problems, and they don't always do what might be best for your situation...that is all.


Also, two of my new Doc have a patient portal system on the computer, to ask questions, check records and labs...it's wonderful, and save making an appt. just to ask a follow up question about whatever, I love it.

but a doctor SHOULD know better than you do, that's the part you and a great many other people don't seem to want to acknowledge. deference to true expertise is non existent in today's world. we all think we know best and that everyone is here to do our bidding.

tdoczi
02-22-2013, 13:15
I'm with you rocketsocks....doctors are supposed to alleviate concerns not be sarcastic asses. If they were more accessible you wouldn't need to look things up on the internet to get answers....and likely confused. If they have the knowledge, there should be a way to get them to share it. Fifteen minutes annually is insufficient time to get health questions answered, but go ahead and try to call the office with a question.....

(this applies to almost all drs in my experience, except for my rheumatologist who is, in fact, God's gift to medicine)and sometimes alleviating the concern means telling you how it is, even if that contradicts your own conclusions. just doing whatever you ask is not the way to do it.

mrcoffeect
02-22-2013, 13:18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nvs5pqf-DMA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nvs5pqf-DMA this aint funny i ran into one of these last spring. I was just a bit faster than that wrabbit. threw my pack at him and ran like hell the other way.

rocketsocks
02-22-2013, 13:19
I love this quote. once you get over that speed bump there is not a whole lot to be scared of. I have looked over the edge of many roofs, and said to myself if you fall from here, whats the worst thing that could happen? Die? And i always reply to myself, no the worst would be if i live thought it, all busted to sh_t and not be able to really live after.And now I love it too, so true, cause when it comes right down to it, most of that stuff that scares people they don't have control over anyway...so what ya gonna do, stuff happens...roll with it.

Teacher & Snacktime
02-22-2013, 13:22
and sometimes alleviating the concern means telling you how it is, even if that contradicts your own conclusions. just doing whatever you ask is not the way to do it.

contradiction is the best result of all....keeps you from making dumb, misinformed mistakes...but since the purpose was to get info in the first place, it's a win!

rocketsocks
02-22-2013, 13:22
this aint funny i ran into one of these last spring. I was just a bit faster than that wrabbit. threw my pack at him and ran like hell the other way.Oh the carnage, it slay me every time. Run a away, run away

rocketsocks
02-22-2013, 13:24
and sometimes alleviating the concern means telling you how it is, even if that contradicts your own conclusions. just doing whatever you ask is not the way to do it.Yeah, I hear ya but in my case your talking apples and I'm talking oranges, not your falut, I didn't give ya all the info....but I hear ya.

HikerMom58
02-22-2013, 13:44
"It's what people know about themselves inside that makes 'em afraid."

The Stranger, Clint Eastwood
High Plains Drifter 1973

OH. MY. GOSH..... ding ding!!! This is the TRUTH!

Mags
02-22-2013, 13:57
but a doctor SHOULD know better than you do, that's the part you and a great many other people don't seem to want to acknowledge.

Bringing up my brother's story again....

He is a licensed paramedic in the civilian world in addition to being a medic in the Air National Guard. Currently he is a thesis paper away from his Masters in a biochemistry related degree. ( His none-too-smart brother who works in IT can't tell you more than that...) In other words, he's a smart guy with practical medical training.

When he started getting flu like symptoms, he immediately thought of Lyme disease. His GP just said "Nah. You are just tired.". My brother is a single dad raising a three year old daughter, so he almost (almost!) agreed.

He woke up a morning or two later and could hardly see in addition to having a pounding headache. Luckily, he had drills that weekend with his ANG unit.

Luckily? In addition to our RN cousin being in the same unit with him (and could give him a lift), the ANG unit has opticians and eye surgeons.

They said another day or two he'd have permanent damage. Some meds were given to alleviate the swelling in the eyes. Some blood work diagnosed what he thought initially: Lyme disease.

Always get a second opinion.

rocketsocks
02-22-2013, 14:05
Sorry to hear that , and glad to hear that Mags.

Chuckie V
02-22-2013, 14:39
but a doctor SHOULD know better than you do, that's the part you and a great many other people don't seem to want to acknowledge. deference to true expertise is non existent in today's world. we all think we know best and that everyone is here to do our bidding.

I'll add to the thread drift here!

Great point tdoczi. A doctor should know more and almost assuredly does (any fool willing to argue that needs to go to med school). And the tests he or she can run should be able to tell us more yet.

But a doctor should NOT care about a individual's health any more than that individual does. Most doctors see lots of patients, and these patients become nothing more than numbers or "cases." And the more they see the more likely they are to making errors in judgment. Health is often a case of judgment, just like life or death can be.

We humans love to pass the burden of "health care" on to others, or on to other entities (government, HMOs, food companies, restaurants, etc). Health care is the individual's responsibility, first and foremost. We all sleep in the bed we make, so to speak. And the longer that bed is a mess, the tougher it is to clean!

We should endeavor to know more about ourselves--maybe even as much or more as a doctor does--and how to better care for ourselves, physically, emotionally, mentally, and so on.

That said, when something is amiss, I know who I'm going to, after I attempt a self-diagnosis. But in this case, it's usually straight to the tests (blood tests, for example), on a doctor's recommendation and my unending persuasion!

tdoczi
02-22-2013, 14:42
I'll add to the thread drift here!

Great point tdoczi. A doctor should know more and almost assuredly does (any fool willing to argue that needs to go to med school). And the tests he or she can run should be able to tell us more yet.

But a doctor should NOT care about a individual's health any more than that individual does. Most doctors see lots of patients, and these patients become nothing more than numbers or "cases." And the more they see the more likely they are to making errors in judgment. Health is often a case of judgment, just like life or death can be.

We humans love to pass the burden of "health care" on to others, or on to other entities (government, HMOs, food companies, restaurants, etc). Health care is the individual's responsibility, first and foremost. We all sleep in the bed we make, so to speak. And the longer that bed is a mess, the tougher it is to clean!

We should endeavor to know more about ourselves--maybe even as much or more as a doctor does--and how to better care for ourselves, physically, emotionally, mentally, and so on.

That said, when something is amiss, I know who I'm going to, after I attempt a self-diagnosis. But in this case, it's usually straight to the tests (blood tests, for example), on a doctor's recommendation and my unending persuasion!

but caring does not equal knowledge and just because i may care more doesn't make my opinion more valid than a medical professional who disagrees.

KingGator and Sons
02-22-2013, 14:44
Having read this, it sounds like it would be a good idea to pair up with another hiker, preferably opposite sex, and check each other for ticks every afternoon...

LOL! Gotta love Floridians! ;)

Chuckie V
02-22-2013, 14:46
but caring does not equal knowledge and just because i may care more doesn't make my opinion more valid than a medical professional who disagrees.

I concur fully. And I totally agree with your point that everyone seems to think they're an expert nowadays. So many of us aren't willing to admit we don't know squat. To me, that's always been the first step toward learning more!

KingGator and Sons
02-22-2013, 14:48
theres nothing to interpret, its a question of believing science or your "experience" which is mostly hearsay and fear mongering.

thanks for the advice. i would never take a antibiotic as a preventive measure. nonsense like that is why we now have things like mrsa to contend with.

Not my business, but this seemed a little rough. lol Maybe, I am wrong. Legitimate question: Are you a doctor or do you have medical experience?

KingGator and Sons
02-22-2013, 14:49
I'm with you rocketsocks....doctors are supposed to alleviate concerns not be sarcastic asses. If they were more accessible you wouldn't need to look things up on the internet to get answers....and likely confused. If they have the knowledge, there should be a way to get them to share it. Fifteen minutes annually is insufficient time to get health questions answered, but go ahead and try to call the office with a question.....

(this applies to almost all drs in my experience, except for my rheumatologist who is, in fact, God's gift to medicine)

Maybe its because I am a stubborn guy, but I refuse to go to the doctor. They are like mechanics, they will fix rig one problem and then diagnose me with another to keep me coming back. I know the old drug dealer game.......keep em comin back! lol

KingGator and Sons
02-22-2013, 14:53
but a doctor SHOULD know better than you do, that's the part you and a great many other people don't seem to want to acknowledge. deference to true expertise is non existent in today's world. we all think we know best and that everyone is here to do our bidding.

You do know there have been QUITE A FEW killer doctors in the past right? lol. Expertise is not always reliable in ANY FIELD. Doctors to really take care of our health? Hell in todays world, people can barely trust their mothers to not kill them anymore.

bfayer
02-22-2013, 14:57
I fear running into an Orangutan leaving trash on the trail in search of seafood.

You may say my fears are unfounded, but they are mine, and if I want to fear those things I am going to and if you don't like it, just hike on.

Can anyone tell its the middle of February, just by reading the recent posts on here :)

I can't wait for spring.

KingGator and Sons
02-22-2013, 15:00
but caring does not equal knowledge and just because i may care more doesn't make my opinion more valid than a medical professional who disagrees.

so, their number of cases could never cloud their mind? All people's bodys are the same? I dont know about that. My doctor told me when I got stabbed 17 years ago that if I did not get my surgery for my punctured spleen, I would die. A doctor told me one time that we needed to pull the plug on my grandfather because we had no chance of him surviving. My grandfather lived another 12 years PERFECTLY ok, (other than the COPD suffering on oxygen). In terms of my surgery, I never got it and I have even fought in a cage. My point is....sometimes they are just as "right" as my ass (literally, my ass) is on medical matters. They didn't factor in heart or anything else. Just a simple PLAIN diagnosis. BTW: Both diagnosis were supposed to basically be etched in stone.

rickb
02-22-2013, 15:01
but caring does not equal knowledge and just because i may care more doesn't make my opinion more valid than a medical professional who disagrees.Just remember that 50% of all doctors graduated in the bottom 1/2 of their class.To my way of thinking a thru hiker who doesn't look at the CDC info on the web and/or one of the better Lyme education sites is not very wise. There is a tremendous variation among individual physicians knowledge on this-- as well as different attitudes about prescribing antibiotics absent the classical symptoms. Your health is all to dependant on what Dr you end up seeing.

KingGator and Sons
02-22-2013, 15:02
I concur fully. And I totally agree with your point that everyone seems to think they're an expert nowadays. So many of us aren't willing to admit we don't know squat. To me, that's always been the first step toward learning more!

I definitely agree with the know it all portion of their comment as well as the learning more step. I have to admit though that these days I have less and less faith in "professionals"

KingGator and Sons
02-22-2013, 15:05
Just remember that 50% of all doctors graduated in the bottom 1/2 of their class.To my way of thinking a thru hiker who doesn't look at the CDC info on the web and/or one of the better Lyme education sites is not very wise. There is a tremendous variation among individual physicians knowledge on this-- as well as different attitudes about prescribing antibiotics absent the classical symptoms. Your health is all to dependant on what Dr you end up seeing.

EXACTLY!!! It's all a matter of the doctor we are seeing. I can walk into an office today and get pain meds without hardly doing anything to convince a doctor that I need them. Then the next doctor may actually be a good one and truly diagnose me to prevent addiction. Depends on the guy. One doctor will keep you high, the next wont give you enough to actually kill pain. Doesnt seem like a very solid or moral profession to me. I don't think we can trust any profession truly any more. We must do some research on our own.

xokie
02-22-2013, 15:35
I got the Lyme hiking in CT but didn't get symptoms until I was visiting Seattle. The ER staff were so excited, taking pictures of the bull's eye. Looking up on WebMD. It was funny. They talked me into staying until the swing shift came in at 3:00. I should have charged them.

But back to the original question. Fear is half the fun.

Teacher & Snacktime
02-22-2013, 15:38
I got the Lyme hiking in CT but didn't get symptoms until I was visiting Seattle. The ER staff were so excited, taking pictures of the bull's eye. Looking up on WebMD. It was funny. They talked me into staying until the swing shift came in at 3:00. I should have charged them.

But back to the original question. Fear is half the fun.

That's great! Celebrity status because a little eastern arachnid was hungry!

Wait...did you say they looked it up on WebMD....why didn't they just ask the DOCTOR?

tdoczi
02-22-2013, 17:02
Not my business, but this seemed a little rough. lol Maybe, I am wrong. Legitimate question: Are you a doctor or do you have medical experience?

nope, neither.

tdoczi
02-22-2013, 17:03
Maybe its because I am a stubborn guy, but I refuse to go to the doctor. They are like mechanics, they will fix rig one problem and then diagnose me with another to keep me coming back. I know the old drug dealer game.......keep em comin back! lol

havent been to a dr myself in nearly 7 years and plan to keep it that way.

tdoczi
02-22-2013, 17:05
You do know there have been QUITE A FEW killer doctors in the past right? lol. Expertise is not always reliable in ANY FIELD. Doctors to really take care of our health? Hell in todays world, people can barely trust their mothers to not kill them anymore.

there are good drs and bad drs, as there are good and bad everything. the notion that even a mediocre dr doesnt know more than you do about medicine and the human body is rather silly. people do make mistakes, which applies not only to drs but to your attempt to self diagnose yourself. an undeniable mistake that a horrible dr would make would be accepting the self diagnosis of their patience, something i know first hand does happen.

tdoczi
02-22-2013, 17:07
Just remember that 50% of all doctors graduated in the bottom 1/2 of their class.To my way of thinking a thru hiker who doesn't look at the CDC info on the web and/or one of the better Lyme education sites is not very wise. There is a tremendous variation among individual physicians knowledge on this-- as well as different attitudes about prescribing antibiotics absent the classical symptoms. Your health is all to dependant on what Dr you end up seeing.

i quoted a stat about the rarity of transmission from ticks to humans and you somehow concluded it was open to "interpretation." thats a fact i found and i am happy to go with. care to cite something concrete that disputes that evidence?

tdoczi
02-22-2013, 17:30
since someone mentions the cdc, i went looking and found this-

http://www.cdc.gov/lyme/stats/chartstables/casesbyyear.html

in the worst of years, counting even probable cases, youre looking at most at 50K lyme disease infections. since so many of you insist this is more of a problem in the northeast (which is not without merit) lets consider this number against the total populations of all states north of the mason dixon line, and just for laughs exclude the populations of major cities like NY and Boston. anyone care to work out what % of the population that comes to? is it even 1%? .5%?

its a negligible risk, at best.

Rasty
02-22-2013, 17:33
since someone mentions the cdc, i went looking and found this-

http://www.cdc.gov/lyme/stats/chartstables/casesbyyear.html

in the worst of years, counting even probable cases, youre looking at most at 50K lyme disease infections. since so many of you insist this is more of a problem in the northeast (which is not without merit) lets consider this number against the total populations of all states north of the mason dixon line, and just for laughs exclude the populations of major cities like NY and Boston. anyone care to work out what % of the population that comes to? is it even 1%? .5%?

its a negligible risk, at best.

You forgot to remove the % of the population that does not go outside except from the front door to the car door and have someone else do the landscaping.

Slo-go'en
02-22-2013, 17:40
If I hadn't gone home after just a few days on the trail because I was feeling "out of sorts" and then went to see a doctor, I might have died a very painful death from an infected liver absess I some how developed. I couldn't think of any reason why I was feeling wierd except maybe I had come down with Lyme, which is why I went to see the doc. As it was, it was a pretty close call. Which BTW, is how I ended up with a 2 week hospital stay which allowed me to quit smoking, so it wasn't a total waste. In my case, I was on some hard core antibiotics for 3 or 4 months, but unless you definately need them, it's best to avoid taking them.

slow mind
02-22-2013, 18:06
You guys are scaring me.

atmilkman
02-22-2013, 18:14
My greatest fear is having my car keyed or having the tires slashed in a TN trailhead since my car has an SC liscence plate. Tensions are high because sc is on the winning side of football as of late. I usually back into parking space because of this.
Try being a Bama fan in any state other than Alabama. ROLL TIDE!

Kookork
02-22-2013, 18:18
Well said, Chuckie V. We do have a culture of fear. People seem to be afraid of new ideas, of risk, of each other. Every new product carries a ton of warnings, which are meant to ward off litigation, I suppose, but make people wary of doing or using anything. Politics (let's not go there) are confrontational, religion (nor there) is confrontational. When I hike, be it a short walk in the park or a long backpacking trip, I feel peaceful and relaxed most of the time. I enjoy the problem-solving aspects and try to make good decisions. Most of the people I meet seem to be in that frame of mind, too.

Very well said. I don't enjoy forging a dangerous river but I enjoy forging it by not putting myself in any serious danger.

Rasty
02-22-2013, 18:26
Well said, Chuckie V. We do have a culture of fear. People seem to be afraid of new ideas, of risk, of each other. Every new product carries a ton of warnings, which are meant to ward off litigation, I suppose, but make people wary of doing or using anything. Politics (let's not go there) are confrontational, religion (nor there) is confrontational. When I hike, be it a short walk in the park or a long backpacking trip, I feel peaceful and relaxed most of the time. I enjoy the problem-solving aspects and try to make good decisions. Most of the people I meet seem to be in that frame of mind, too.

Very well said. I don't enjoy forging a dangerous river but I enjoy forging it by not putting myself in any serious danger.

Welcome back! Where have you been?

hikerboy57
02-22-2013, 18:38
Very well said. I don't enjoy forging a dangerous river but I enjoy forging it by not putting myself in any serious danger.

hey!!!! where you been hiking?

Lone Wolf
02-22-2013, 18:40
what is "forging" a river?

Mountaintop
02-22-2013, 18:56
The second I started reading this I knew it had to be a quote. Too many capital letters.

Good quote.

Cookerhiker
02-22-2013, 18:57
what is "forging" a river?

It's when the river you're fording is in a deep gorge.

Kookork, good to see you back.

Freedom Walker
02-22-2013, 19:09
There is fear and then there is respect. My desire is to know the differience between the two.
For a funny note. You could put this message on the tombstone of a overlly fearful person.
"I was afraid I would end up like this and here I am."

WingedMonkey
02-22-2013, 19:32
You damn people are making me miss when everyone and their sister had Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.

:eek:

Kookork
02-22-2013, 19:34
Hi to all of you. It is so great to have such a warm welcome back. I missed you all, even you Lone Wolf. I was coping with what you might call " Midlife crisis". Did not know where I belong to. It took me a while to find and refine myself. thank you for remembering me. I am back and you will see me quite often in the forum again.

Rasty, Hikerboy57, cookerhiker happy to see you are still active in this unique friendly forum.

Forging as cookerhiker mentioned is fording a gorge from now on:).

hikerboy57
02-22-2013, 19:41
You damn people are making me miss when everyone and their sister had Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.

:eek:

I still have it. lots of coffee and cigarettes seem to help.

rocketsocks
02-22-2013, 20:09
Hi to all of you. It is so great to have such a warm welcome back. I missed you all, even you Lone Wolf. I was coping with what you might call " Midlife crisis". Did not know where I belong to. It took me a while to find and refine myself. thank you for remembering me. I am back and you will see me quite often in the forum again.

Rasty, Hikerboy57, cookerhiker happy to see you are still active in this unique friendly forum.

Forging as cookerhiker mentioned is fording a gorge from now on:).KooKork, what up man, welcome back!

hikerboy57
02-22-2013, 20:13
There is fear and then there is respect. My desire is to know the differience between the two.
For a funny note. You could put this message on the tombstone of a overlly fearful person.
"I was afraid I would end up like this and here I am."
mine will read"i knew this would happen"

i accept the inevitability of my departure

tdoczi
02-22-2013, 20:22
You forgot to remove the % of the population that does not go outside except from the front door to the car door and have someone else do the landscaping.theres been ample examples given here of "its so bad in the northeast even not outdoorsy people get it!" you cant have it both ways.

HikerMom58
02-22-2013, 20:23
mine will read"i knew this would happen"

i accept the inevitability of my departure

We don't have a choice HB... it's going to happen whether we like/accept it or not. Good that you can say you accept it. :) Mine would read.. I knew this was going to happen. I prepared myself and lived the best life I possibly could. I was ready for it.

Rasty
02-22-2013, 20:29
You damn people are making me miss when everyone and their sister had Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.

:eek:

I get that every night. Its better in the morning!

Kookork
02-22-2013, 20:30
KooKork, what up man, welcome back!

Thanks Rock. It is good to be here. Especially after a self inflicting exile.

Lone Wolf
02-22-2013, 21:02
We don't have a choice HB... it's going to happen whether we like/accept it or not. Good that you can say you accept it. :) Mine would read.. I knew this was going to happen. I prepared myself and lived the best life I possibly could. I was ready for it.
4 years ago this week i wasn't ready for it. major heart attack, quad by-pass and ticker stopped 4 times during and after. i'm ready now. but thank christ for cardiologists and AEDs

hikerboy57
02-22-2013, 21:05
4 years ago this week i wasn't ready for it. major heart attack, quad by-pass and ticker stopped 4 times during and after. i'm ready now. but thank christ for cardiologists and AEDs

you just never know when its your last day.

Lone Wolf
02-22-2013, 21:09
you just never know when its your last day.

that's the damned 'ol truth!

Blissful
02-22-2013, 21:21
Make the most of every day...each is a gift...that's for sure.

rickb
02-22-2013, 22:46
the red squirrel is to be feared. he is ruthless.
and lets not forget


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nvs5pqf-DMA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nvs5pqf-DMA


Looks like hiker boy was ahead of the curve on this.


http://charlotte.cbslocal.com/2013/02/21/wildlife-officials-warn-hunters-of-deadly-rabbit-fever/

HikerMom58
02-22-2013, 23:11
4 years ago this week i wasn't ready for it. major heart attack, quad by-pass and ticker stopped 4 times during and after. i'm ready now. but thank christ for cardiologists and AEDs

Wow, 4 years ago - Lone Wolf.. I'm glad you are still here with us. :) It's so good to hear that you would be ready now. I guess one is never fully ready but I'm as ready as I will ever be.... I don't have any control when it will happen because I know I won't purposely end my own life. :)

rocketsocks
02-22-2013, 23:33
You damn people are making me miss when everyone and their sister had Chronic Fatigue Syndrome.

:eek:Yep, notice how everyone is jumping on the band wagon:rolleyes: NOT!, I refuse to believe it's lymes for me, but I won't give up on the thinking that it could be....there's a difference. I don't think most people think they have lymes, there's just to many other things that can cause the same symptoms...

rocketsocks
02-22-2013, 23:37
Looks like hiker boy was ahead of the curve on this.


http://charlotte.cbslocal.com/2013/02/21/wildlife-officials-warn-hunters-of-deadly-rabbit-fever/Oh that HB's quick on the Monty....I think he's got em his tool belt.eh hmm, tool bar.

rocketsocks
02-23-2013, 14:56
Thanks Rock. It is good to be here. Especially after a self inflicting exile.Yep, I've been at the pointy end of that same sword.

rocketsocks
02-23-2013, 14:59
4 years ago this week i wasn't ready for it. major heart attack, quad by-pass and ticker stopped 4 times during and after. i'm ready now. but thank christ for cardiologists and AEDsWhat's AEDs is that like roto rooter, but for arteries?

bfayer
02-23-2013, 15:24
What's AEDs is that like roto rooter, but for arteries?

Its a DIY defibrillator, that allows the average Joe to jump start people that have heart attacks.

All you do is open it up, put the patches where the cartoon tells you, hit the button, and the computer figures it out from there.

"automated external defibrillator "

rocketsocks
02-23-2013, 15:26
Its a DIY defibrillator, that allows the average Joe to jump start people that have heart attacks.

All you do is open it up, put the patches where the cartoon tells you, hit the button, and the computer figures it out from there.

"automated external defibrillator "Oh, cool..hope there's one around should I ever need one. Thanks

OzJacko
02-23-2013, 16:10
mine will read"i knew this would happen"

i accept the inevitability of my departure
Spike Milligan's...."I told you I was sick".;)
Although I think it's written in Gaelic.

Rasty
02-23-2013, 16:12
Spike Milligan's...."I told you I was sick".;)
Although I think it's written in Gaelic.

I wan't mine to say "OOPS!"

keepinitsimple
02-26-2013, 16:24
Fear knocked....... Faith answered....... and there was nobody there.....

Freedom Walker
03-02-2013, 12:49
Fear knocked....... Faith answered....... and there was nobody there.....

And as Paul Harvey used to say, Heres the rest of the story....
The Hinds Head Hotel, BrayIt's hard not to feel like a Tudor monarch at The Hinds Head pub in Bray, Berkshire.


In 1947, the Hinds Head pub played host to Prince Philip's stag party, before his marriage to the Queen.

If the thought of the Duke of Edinburgh swilling pints with abandon is too difficult to imagine, there's plenty to catch the eye in the religious thread that runs through the dark wooden veins of this 15th-century pub.

A panel commemorates the Vicar of Bray, the eponymous protagonist of the old English ballad, who thrice changed faith in Tudor times. And above the fireplace an inscription reads: "Fear knocked at the door. Faith answered. No one was there." Never mind Fear; if Hunger or Thirst knock at your door, you've come to the right place.

Train Wreck
03-02-2013, 14:07
I wan't mine to say "OOPS!"

Too late...."Chicken Ankles" will be your last message to all who pass by.

Freedom Walker
03-03-2013, 09:19
Too late...."Chicken Ankles" will be your last message to all who pass by.

It could read: "He said, Hey watch this"