Solar Recharges ?? [Archive]

Adfischer

02-20-2013, 01:06

BradMT

02-20-2013, 08:48

leaftye

02-20-2013, 10:34

Tried the GoalZero but I can't get enough power from it. The Suntactics gives a full 1W from the USB vs .5W from the GoalZero.

Assuming the following perfect conditions, which by definition would not happen... 1. The Suntactics is aimed directly at the sun at every given moment. 2. There is not a moment of cover, including tree, cloud or mountain. 3. 100% energy conversion, that is, the electronics between both batteries consume and waste not a single bit of energy. 4. The sun is in a position in the sky (time, latitude) to provide enough power for the Suntactics to provide full power the entire time.

Also assume the 1W/5V rating you're quoting is honest and accurate.

The Suntactics would require 7.2 hours to fully charge an iPhone 5.

Jalum

02-20-2013, 10:57

I am starting trial soon and was thinking about purchasing a solar charger for phone,ipod.Has anybody thru hiked using one?? Do they actually work or waste of money ? Also what is a good brand ? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated !!!

Keep in mind that solar tech has improved quite a bit recently, but a lot of hikers have been burned by older, less efficient devices. A lot of people will say that there's just not enough direct sunlight on the trail for a solar panel, but I don't know if their experience is with the older tech or the new stuff like Joos Orange.

leaftye

02-20-2013, 11:19

Keep in mind that solar tech has improved quite a bit recently, but a lot of hikers have been burned by older, less efficient devices. A lot of people will say that there's just not enough direct sunlight on the trail for a solar panel, but I don't know if their experience is with the older tech or the new stuff like Joos Orange.

A lot of people are probably right. It'd be easy to prove them wrong if they are wrong. Go test a Joos Orange with the myJOOS program running on a computer and show what the instantaneous solar power available is while standing under a tree.

Adfischer

02-20-2013, 12:54

Assuming the following perfect conditions, which by definition would not happen... 1. The Suntactics is aimed directly at the sun at every given moment. 2. There is not a moment of cover, including tree, cloud or mountain. 3. 100% energy conversion, that is, the electronics between both batteries consume and waste not a single bit of energy. 4. The sun is in a position in the sky (time, latitude) to provide enough power for the Suntactics to provide full power the entire time.

Also assume the 1W/5V rating you're quoting is honest and accurate.
The Suntactics would require 7.2 hours to fully charge an iPhone 5.

Hi leafyeye. While I would say you need decent conditions, you dont need perfect conditions to get a charge with a good solar panel. I have tested multiple panels including Goal Zero, Suntactics, Solio, some homemade, and some no-names. The testing I have done was in real world conditions with a multimeter measuring power output and voltage.

I live in Tennessee. During the winter I have seen the SunTactics deliver 850mA from the USB, and in the summer the full 1A when pointed directly at the sun. Laying down flat on the ground anywhere between 600-750mA. In overcast conditions I can get between 100-200mA from the Suntactics. The Goal Zero maxes out at 500mA on the USB port because of a limitations of the circuitry.

An iPhone 5 battery is 1440mAh. On a decent sunny day you can charge it in 3-4 hours or less. I have done it plenty of times with my iPhone 4S which has a 1432mAh battery. On a really good day I have fully charged it in 2.5 hours.

Yes, on the AT it can be difficult to find sun. That is why I carry a 5Ah battery pack that I charge from solar and then use the battery pack to charge the phone. I can go days with just the battery pack and when I get some sun charge the battery best I can. With just doing 'opportunity charging' when taking breaks or hanging out in camp I have no issue keeping my iPhone charged up.

Disclaimer: I am only a customer of Suntactics, I have no interest in the company.

leaftye

02-20-2013, 13:17

Hi leafyeye. While I would say you need decent conditions, you dont need perfect conditions to get a charge with a good solar panel. I have tested multiple panels including Goal Zero, Suntactics, Solio, some homemade, and some no-names. The testing I have done was in real world conditions with a multimeter measuring power output and voltage.

I live in Tennessee. During the winter I have seen the SunTactics deliver 850mA from the USB, and in the summer the full 1A when pointed directly at the sun. Laying down flat on the ground anywhere between 600-750mA. In overcast conditions I can get between 100-200mA from the Suntactics. The Goal Zero maxes out at 500mA on the USB port because of a limitations of the circuitry.

An iPhone 5 battery is 1440mAh. On a decent sunny day you can charge it in 3-4 hours or less. I have done it plenty of times with my iPhone 4S which has a 1432mAh battery. On a really good day I have fully charged it in 2.5 hours.

Yes, on the AT it can be difficult to find sun. That is why I carry a 5Ah battery pack that I charge from solar and then use the battery pack to charge the phone. I can go days with just the battery pack and when I get some sun charge the battery best I can. With just doing 'opportunity charging' when taking breaks or hanging out in camp I have no issue keeping my iPhone charged up.

Disclaimer: I am only a customer of Suntactics, I have no interest in the company.

What is the output under tree cover? That's what really matters, and a question I haven't seen anyone answer.

If a battery pack lasts days for you, what's the point of a solar charger when towns are only days apart?

I'm amused at the weight and bulk of the Orange Joos. It's 24 ounces and as big as a textbook. An iPhone 4S weighs 4.8 ounces. It other words, an iPhone 4S is 1/5th the weight and less than 1/10th the volume. It's too bad the iPhone and most other smartphones don't have replaceable batteries.

leaftye

02-20-2013, 13:48

Adfischer, how did you test it with the multimeter? I would think the results would be skewed because of the battery.

Joos says you can use the Joos Orange even in the shade and overcast conditions, but in testing that has failed miserably. Unless the solar panel receives a strong, hot beam of light, you can forget about charging your device. It just isn't sensitive enough to produce enough power in low light conditions and that can become a big problem. Since the sun constantly changes direction, you must be aware and re-position the Joos Orange towards it in order for it to work efficiently. If you try to charge up a tablet like the iPad using nothing but solar energy using the Joos Orange, it'll take you days to who knows. I haven't got the time to test that one out sadly.

http://www.gadgetmac.com/reviews/joos-orange-portable-solar-battery-charger-review.html

I tested the JOOS Orange in a variety of scenarios and lighting conditions and found that the claim by the manufacturer of a recharge time of 12 hours in direct sunlight is fairly accurate. That is if you continue to keep it angled perfectly at the sun throughout a very bright day. This, unfortunately, is not how every day is around the world. Therefore, I conducted further testing in mixed lighting conditions including: rain, shade, overcast skies, behind house windows, behind car windows, and indoor artificial lighting. These combined conditions took 36 hours to charge it from empty to full. This is a much more realistic scenario.

http://www.examiner.com/review/tech-review-joos-orange-waterproof-solar-panel-battery

I'd still like to see this further quantified with myJOOS.

Adfischer

02-20-2013, 14:59

What is the output under tree cover? That's what really matters, and a question I haven't seen anyone answer.

If a battery pack lasts days for you, what's the point of a solar charger when towns are only days apart?

I'm amused at the weight and bulk of the Orange Joos. It's 24 ounces and as big as a textbook. An iPhone 4S weighs 4.8 ounces. It other words, an iPhone 4S is 1/5th the weight and less than 1/10th the volume. It's too bad the iPhone and most other smartphones don't have replaceable batteries.

Good question on the tree cover. I have not done testing under tree cover but I would guess its pretty low. I'll do some testing and let you know.

As for the battery, I also spend a lot of time doing other outside activities than the AT that keep me away from power for a week+ at a time.

I hear you on the replaceable batteries. My charging setup is not the lightest at 15oz but it allows me to keep in contact when I am out which allows me to go. Unfortunately I can not completely unplug.

Adfischer

02-20-2013, 15:09

Adfischer, how did you test it with the multimeter? I would think the results would be skewed because of the battery.
I'd still like to see this further quantified with myJOOS.

The battery will not skew the results. I am measuring the power output of the solar panel into the battery pack. At first I hacked up a USB cable and attached the multimeter to it, but then I found a nifty device on Amazon that measures power inline. In comparing it to the Fluke measurements it was pretty accurate. The device is at vhttp://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005Z1E3IY/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Here is what the device looks like. This is attached to the Suntactics and battery pack on a winter day. 740mAh.
19794

Here is the Suntactics on an overcast winter day (162mAh)
19795

Here is the Goal Zero in full sun. Notice it peaks out at 500-550mAh. Thats the limit if the charge circuit on the USB port.
19796

Break:Away

02-20-2013, 18:10

I considered a solar charger but gave up and decided on a Mophie Juice Pack (there are others out there too). It weighs in at about 7oz and will recharge a smartpohone 2 - 3 times. I have both an iPhone and Android . Both charge up fine and in about 2.5 hrs. from a battery starting with about 5%.

Break:Away

02-20-2013, 18:15

http://www.mophie.com/juice-pack-powerstation-PRO-smartphones-tablets-p/2028_jpu-pwrstion-pro.htm
I should have been more specific, but it's the Juice Pack Powerstation Pro. If you decide to get one of these, you need to press the button on the side to being a charge cycle. That's not very obvious and worth mentioning. Good luck with your decision.

leaftye

02-20-2013, 18:17

The battery will not skew the results. I am measuring the power output of the solar panel into the battery pack. At first I hacked up a USB cable and attached the multimeter to it, but then I found a nifty device on Amazon that measures power inline. In comparing it to the Fluke measurements it was pretty accurate. The device is at vhttp://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005Z1E3IY/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I could use one of those devices, but I think I'll build my own instead. Thanks though.

I got you mixed up with Jalum and was thinking you tested the Orange Joos with a multimeter. I don't see how that could be done. The way you did it with the other devices makes sense though.

Adfischer

02-20-2013, 19:31

I could use one of those devices, but I think I'll build my own instead. Thanks though.

I got you mixed up with Jalum and was thinking you tested the Orange Joos with a multimeter. I don't see how that could be done. The way you did it with the other devices makes sense though.

No problem.

On the Orange Joos these are the published panel specs: 2.4 – 2.6W without reflectors, 4.0W to 5.2W with reflectors (depending on latitude)

So assuming you would get 2.5W from this guy in full sun (I doubt many would use reflectors), at 5V that comes out to 500mA. That would be about right based on the size of the panel in my experience.

ChinMusic

02-20-2013, 19:37

IMO, the external battery is the way to go on the AT. There is just not enough access to the sun many days and the access to towns, to recharge the external, is plentiful.

For something like the PCT or CDT the solar chargers might have an advantage, with more access to the sun and less access to towns.

Wise Old Owl

02-20-2013, 20:18

Look at the Suntactics brand. Best I have found so far for the trail. I use it with a battery pack then charge the phone at night.

Tried the GoalZero but I can't get enough power from it. The Suntactics gives a full 1W from the USB vs .5W from the GoalZero.

The battery only option works fine for me on a weekender but for longer I need the solar. I use my phone a lot and need a full charge daily.

You are talking about goal 7 which was not intended for I phone. Iphone and Smartphone only works from Goal 10 plus at 2.5 watts. This may or may not solve problems in the field. Smart phones do not have a regulator - instead computer power sensing which can drive you nuts with beeps and other messages and cannot be turned off after deep investigation...So a larger collector panel can be light and requires 1-2 hours of direct sun to charge these power sucking phones.... or you have to charge a large device like Trent or Anker then rotate and send the power at nite to the phone.

This is where I am after deep investigation and testing at home....

Wise Old Owl

02-20-2013, 21:02

Just found this if you are having as much issues as I have.. my phone is Motorola... this may be answer to difficult phones.

If you have a "Casio GzOne" phone if will not charge from the "Guide 10 Plus" unless you have a modified USB cord because it thinks it is for DATA, the two DATA wires have to be shorted together to put in charge mode only, once you connect the DATA leads together(solder) tape it up and it is good for charge only, no more for DATA. If you need more info on the wiring you can search USB 2.0 for color codes.

leaftye

02-20-2013, 21:10

There are special USB cables made for charging that already have the cables shorted. Chargers should not allow more than 500 mA with normal cables.

Wise Old Owl

02-20-2013, 21:15

Well good to know - but most of my wall chargers are 700 ma - so I tossed the others.

Prime Time

02-20-2013, 21:30

My experience with my iPhone is I get 4-5 days out of a single charge under the following conditions: Airplane mode all day, power off at night. Fine for taking pictures, some music on the trail, 30 minutes of reading a book and 20 minutes of journalling each evening. 1 or 2 ten to fifteen minute phone calls per day in an area where I know I have reception. I then upload pictures and journal entries from Notes to iCloud, check email, facebook(maybe) once I get to town and have a power source. That's all I need, and I've never run down my battery yet on the trail.

Deerleg

02-21-2013, 23:36

Adfischer

02-22-2013, 00:33

You are talking about goal 7 which was not intended for I phone. Iphone and Smartphone only works from Goal 10 plus at 2.5 watts. This may or may not solve problems in the field. Smart phones do not have a regulator - instead computer power sensing which can drive you nuts with beeps and other messages and cannot be turned off after deep investigation...So a larger collector panel can be light and requires 1-2 hours of direct sun to charge these power sucking phones.... or you have to charge a large device like Trent or Anker then rotate and send the power at nite to the phone.

This is where I am after deep investigation and testing at home....

You are right that the Goal 10 would do better, but I have testing this and the AA NiMH batteries just cant deliver the power that Lithium batteries can. Plus the lithium weighs less. The AA seems to start dropping voltage when they get about 50% discharged.

My beef with the Nomad 7 pannel is that it is a 7W pannel that can only deliver 2.5W to the USB port. I dont know if this is because they are trying to drive you into purchasing the Goal 10 power pack or they just decided to go with cheap components on the USB circuit.

The iPhone (and most SmartPhones) do have an internal charge controller. That is what tells the phone to stop taking a charge when full and that is what makes the iPhone so finicky when charging it. Most smartphones do not like it when the voltage drops such as when shade hits a solar panel. The Suntactics have a circuit that will occasionally drop the power completely and start back up again thus resetting the internal charge controller on the phone. A big plus in my opinion.

Adfischer

02-22-2013, 00:44

Hand crank charger for iphone...there are wind up and crank chargers that are light weight. I know nothing about them compared to solar chargers, but my be worth a look as an alternative for someone that takes the time time to research....

Hi Deerleg. I too was hoping that might be a viable option. Unfortunately one that is capable of being taken backpacking does not have the capacity to charge a smartphone. It just needs to much power. The best you could probably get with a decent one would be 10% or less charge per hour of cranking. Thats more work that I am willing to do!

Another interesting device is the motion powered devices like the nPowerPEG (http://npowerpeg.com). Great concept to capture energy you use walking however the reports I am hearing are not great so far. I think there may be a promising future though in these type of devices.

theeulogy

02-22-2013, 01:40

I was out today doing some hiking, and testing the Goal Zero 7. I was in an area that was mostly no visibility to the sky, while I had my phone in aiplane mode with it on using it as a GPS. I was able to charge it about 5-7% per hour with it on in aiplane mode while using the GPS for recording my hike. I also was able to chaqrge my Li-ion energizer 1800mah battery pack with the 12v power out on it at the same time, although I did no testing to see how much charge I got.

Still on the fence myself about how I am going to power my devices on the trail, but most likely will leave solar at home and just use Li-ion packs from New Trent.

rocketsocks

02-22-2013, 11:38

Ok, so I've got a charger that does not belong in the same category as yalls, cause it's a "El Cheapo", but, i'll post this here just because. 198961989719898

The Opteka solar charger is a small charger that measures about 3"x5". I purchased with intent to be able to utilize it as a second battery source, and the solar collector was a bonus if it worked. I'd like to be able to say it did...but i haven't checked it out as of yet...least not in a serious way. It is my intent to use while camping, where an extended period of "charge in sun" could be expected to be had. The manufacturer say's it will take about 10 to 12 hrs, depending on directness of light sunlight (I won't hold my breath on the claim) . It came with 12 different adapters for various units, and not a single one fit my non-smart phone, ipod touch, camera, or nothin...so I have to bring my chords, which now I see after reading this thread will be an issue ie;Data vs. Charge. As you can see by the label it say's it is Li-polymer battery, and has a capacity for 4,000 mAh, 5V, 100mAh input, and 5V, 1000 mAh output. In closing it further states a Solar panel output; 5V,250mAh and I haven't a clue as to what all that means. I've charged my phone and ipod on it's battery out put only, and did fine with that, So I need to charge the battery on board with 115 in the house or stick it outside and see what happens. Any advice on the numbers I'd appreciate, as they are kinda greek to me.

unit retails for $25 beans

have not weighed it yet but about 4 oz