View Full Version : Calories burned for a larger lady?
Hey guys! This is my first post, but I did my research before posting! I see a lot on here that the "average" person burns 5000-7000 calories a day hiking. By average I'm going to assume ~165 lbs of whatever gender you please.
Now, I'm a larger lady and I've been looking at every online calculator posted at they pretty much all say that hiking 8 hours a day at whatever pace they set (not really sure why they go by time rather than miles at x miles an hour) would have me burning 8000-9000 calories on top of my ~2200 BMR. Is that accurate? I find it really hard to believe that I could burn 10000 calories a day, even at the beginning, but that's what pretty much all of the internet is throwing back at me. Are these calculators to be taken with a grain of salt? Is there something that I'm missing?
Thoughts?
Hot Flash
02-20-2013, 11:34
Too many factors to make a guess. Factors like what's your current physical condition, what terrain are you hiking through, how heavy is your pack, what's the weather like, what's your metabolism like, et cetera. There's no way to tell what your nutritional needs are going to be like until you actually get out on the trail and see what happens.
I can't speak to the size issue at all, since I'm a thin woman, but even at my size I go through significantly fewer calories than the online calculators say I should.
The calculators are probably missing something.
At a starting weight of 220 pounds, I lost 30 pounds in two months while on a consistent trail diet that provided about 4500 calories per day, indicating a deficit over 1500 calories per day. It would be a lot more when muscle loss and town food are factored in.
HikerMom58
02-20-2013, 11:40
Too many factors to make a guess. Factors like what's your current physical condition, what terrain are you hiking through, how heavy is your pack, what's the weather like, what's your metabolism like, et cetera. There's no way to tell what your nutritional needs are going to be like until you actually get out on the trail and see what happens.
I can't speak to the size issue at all, since I'm a thin woman, but even at my size I go through significantly fewer calories than the online calculators say I should.
+1............................
:welcome to WB........ sdh59
Thanks guys!
Hot Flash - I'm in fairly good physical condition. Like I said, I'm larger but I'm really active. I've been hiking all my life. I would be (hopefully) doing a thru-hike of the AT in 2014.
leaftye - That's interesting. So you burnt about 6000 a day? That seems on par with what most calculators estimate (unless I'm missing something?).
Thanks HikerMomKD!
leaftye - That's interesting. So you burnt about 6000 a day? That seems on par with what most calculators estimate (unless I'm missing something?).
At least that much. I spent a lot of time in town, and I ate very heartily while I was there while doing much less physical activity. Unfortunately it's too difficult to count calories in town.
That makes sense. So you're saying the calculators might be underestimating? Dang. Here I thought they might be overestimating!
It's hard to say. The only thing that's true most of the time is that you can eat as much as possible while thru hiking and still lose weight.
The only thing that's true most of the time is that you can eat as much as possible while thru hiking and still lose weight.
On that note, is it possible to eat healthily on the trails? Usually healthily = low calorie unless in excess, and I've seen on here that lipton pasta, cheeseburgers, pizza, and snickers are the hiker's staples. Is it entirely impossible to eat healthier foods like one pot pasta that isn't lipton (think dehydrated) or hearty soups/stews? Is that unrealistic simply due to how many calories need consumed?
It is going to depend on your daily mileage, pack weight etc. On my thru hike I averaged just over 30 miles a day and burned about 7000 calories. My full weight including pack was about 195 lbs. No way you will be burning 8000-9000 calories unless you are doing 20+ mile days AND weight over 300 lbs.
I assume the reason you are asking is to determine how much food to take. If I were in your situation I would eat about 200 high carbs calories per hour (every hour hiked) with moderate main meals. This will allow you to use your fats reserves efficiently without sacrificing energy level. You will operating at a higher deficit than most hikers but it sounds like you can afford to do that. You can adjust as needed later in the hike.
This is exactly the strategy I use on short duration hikes of a few days. It allows me to burn off about a lb of fat per day and I have plenty of energy to allow high mile days. This assumes that you are not diabetic or have any other conditions that would prohibit you from undertaking this. Good luck.
My full weight including pack was about 195 lbs. No way you will be burning 8000-9000 calories unless you are doing 20+ mile days AND weight over 300 lbs.
Yeahhhh. I'm 320 so with my pack I'm about 350. Like I said, larger lady. I don't have any health issues like high blood pressure or blood sugar or cholesterol so pretty much anything goes food wise. Only issue I have medically is PCOS which doesn't really affect the food situation. I would like to keep it healthier, though. I'm not much a fan of candy and heavy meals.
On that note, is it possible to eat healthily on the trails?
It's possible. It can take a lot of creativity and time browsing the grocery aisles though, at least for me. Look into freezer bag cooking and doing mail drops as an alternative.
It can take a lot of creativity and time browsing the grocery aisles though, at least for me. Look into freezer bag cooking and doing mail drops as an alternative.
I was planning on dehydrating my own food all of this year and then having my parents maildrop me what I've made (except for staples I can get on the trail like peanut butter).
PD230SOI
02-20-2013, 12:45
Hi,
i use a heart rate monitor that also counts calories as part of a formula that is part science and part guesswork.
that being said, while running it is not unusual for it to tell me I am burning close to 1,000 calories an hour, but that's a hard run.
i have since measured that against a strict diet and measured weight loss and think that my heart rate monitor is fairly accurate.
so bottom line 6,000 to 10,000 a day, including basil metabolic rate, is possible for me, but a lot of variables are in play..... Such as age, current fitness, Vo2, lots of stuff. If you are really interested, buy a decent heart rate monitor and test it out..
but I'm a bit of research guy so for me that sort of thing is fun.
Be sure to test your meal plan. You'll hate yourself if you prepare all that food and then find it unpalatable on the trail. The quantities make a huge difference. My example is trail mix. I like trail mix of all kinds, and eat a lot of it, but can't eat enough of most kinds on long backpacking trips. To eat enough, I have to switch to a fruitier mix that is less calorie dense. Calorie density is very important to me, but calorie dense food doesn't do me any good if I don't eat it.
Check out Dicentra (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/member.php?18746-Dicentra)'s site.
http://www.onepanwonders.com
She's a member here, but hasn't been active in a while. She also has a book on Amazon and is planning a second book.
Hi,
i use a heart rate monitor that also counts calories as part of a formula that is part science and part guesswork.
If you are really interested, buy a decent heart rate monitor and test it out.
Which type do you use? I was looking into getting either a fitbit or a BodyBugg!
fredmugs
02-20-2013, 12:53
Yeahhhh. I'm 320 so with my pack I'm about 350. Like I said, larger lady. I don't have any health issues like high blood pressure or blood sugar or cholesterol so pretty much anything goes food wise. Only issue I have medically is PCOS which doesn't really affect the food situation. I would like to keep it healthier, though. I'm not much a fan of candy and heavy meals.
If you're 320 your basic metabolic rate is way over 2200. I way around 210 right now and mine is 2300. Your BMR is the number of calories you burn just being alive. So....if you burn (for example) 100 calories an hour being alive and you burn 600 calories hiking for an hour then you burned 500 extra calories. Not 600 + 100.
Personally I think the calories burned while numbers are grossly exaggerated.
Thanks for the link leaftye! I was definitely planning to try it in small batches first, make it, and figure out if any of them are horrible. It would be absolutely awful to put that much work into it and not be able to eat on the trails!
I can't eat a lot of really calorically dense trail mixes either. Mine are mostly dried fruit with homemade granola and a few m&m's and almonds thrown in for variety ;)
fredmugs - I've calculated my BMR online a lot, and it always comes out to about 2200. I'm not sure where you got your information from? Perhaps a link so I can see what mine is on the same site?
Thanks for the d'oh moment on the exercise + BMR. I'm a dolt! haha
Yeahhhh. I'm 320 so with my pack I'm about 350. Like I said, larger lady. I don't have any health issues like high blood pressure or blood sugar or cholesterol so pretty much anything goes food wise. Only issue I have medically is PCOS which doesn't really affect the food situation. I would like to keep it healthier, though. I'm not much a fan of candy and heavy meals.
Got it..... While this issue is hotly debated, my rule of thumb is calories burned =total weight x miles hiked so even at your weight AND 20 mile days you still are more in the 6-7000 range. Also, 20 mile days are unlikely.... Using a more realistic 12 mile days puts you in the 4000-4500 calories per day range. (350 x 12)
Hot Flash
02-20-2013, 12:58
On that note, is it possible to eat healthily on the trails? Usually healthily = low calorie unless in excess, and I've seen on here that lipton pasta, cheeseburgers, pizza, and snickers are the hiker's staples. Is it entirely impossible to eat healthier foods like one pot pasta that isn't lipton (think dehydrated) or hearty soups/stews? Is that unrealistic simply due to how many calories need consumed?
Hell yes. I avoid a lot of the prepackaged foods because they simply aren't that good, and they aren't that good FOR you, either. I have a food dryer and I make a lot of my own just-add-water meal packs. I dry fresh fruit and vegetables and I make my own "power" bars. Yeah, it's a lot more work than just going out and buying prepackaged foods at the grocery or backpacker's food packs at REI, but mine taste better and they're a lot better for me.
fredmugs
02-20-2013, 13:02
fredmugs - I've calculated my BMR online a lot, and it always comes out to about 2200. I'm not sure where you got your information from? Perhaps a link so I can see what mine is on the same site?
Thanks for the d'oh moment on the exercise + BMR. I'm a dolt! haha
Whenever I am dieting I use the site fatsecret.com Every day when I report my weight it tells me my BMR based on 16 hours of resting and 8 hours of sleeping. Over the course of the day I can replace the time spent resting with whatever activity I did. Over the course of 8 weeks it does an amazing job of being consistent with the fat that a 3500 calorie deficit = a 1 pound drop in weight.
Using a more realistic 12 mile days puts you in the 4000-4500 calories per day range. (350 x 12)
I'm not planning 20+ a day at all! I was planning 10-15, hoping for 12-13 on average over the whole trip. With the 4000-4500, though, now it seems like the flip-side and that seems too low. I tried to base it off of the calculators recommended on here and then a spreadsheet I found in the way back times of this site (can't find the link now, I'll keep looking).
Hell yes. I avoid a lot of the prepackaged foods because they simply aren't that good, and they aren't that good FOR you, either. I have a food dryer and I make a lot of my own just-add-water meal packs. I dry fresh fruit and vegetables and I make my own "power" bars. Yeah, it's a lot more work than just going out and buying prepackaged foods at the grocery or backpacker's food packs at REI, but mine taste better and they're a lot better for me.
This is EXACTLY what I want to do! Oh my gosh. I have so many questions for you.
1) What dehydrator do you have? I've been looking at tons and it seems like there's no "mid-range" so to speak. There's the cheap circular ones that my dad uses and then there's like the $400 Excalibur. Any ideas?
2) How well does drying veggies work and which ones do you use? I was looking at drying a ton of them to cook/add to soups as well as dehydrating a lot of one-pot pasta meals. Any experience there?
3) How do you make your own power bars? What do you put in them? :)
Also, for anyone interested, these are the direct download links for whichever thread I found that got me my excel documents.
This is the numbers spreadsheet for a woman. FemaleAdultDietLogVer10.xls (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7898&d=1264447782)
This is the "exercise" spreadsheet! ExpandedNutribaseTable.xls (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7882&d=1264310505)
Hot Flash
02-20-2013, 13:25
This is EXACTLY what I want to do! Oh my gosh. I have so many questions for you.
1) What dehydrator do you have? I've been looking at tons and it seems like there's no "mid-range" so to speak. There's the cheap circular ones that my dad uses and then there's like the $400 Excalibur. Any ideas?
2) How well does drying veggies work and which ones do you use? I was looking at drying a ton of them to cook/add to soups as well as dehydrating a lot of one-pot pasta meals. Any experience there?
3) How do you make your own power bars? What do you put in them? :)
I have a Waring brand round clear plastic one and it works just fine, even for jerky. Cost me about $65 as I recall. I dry almost any type of veggie, except for things like cucumber or lettuce. However, cabbage works great! Some veggies dry well when they're raw, others when you blanch them a little. You can make your own dried fruit and fruit leather, too. One thing about home-dried fruit though is that it will tend to not be a "pretty" or as soft as commercially dried fruit because I don't add the preservatives that they do. You can dry almost any kind of meat, though I haven't really tried fish, and I don't normally do dried pork products. Beef and venison work great, turkey and chicken dry up great. Cooked and crumbled lean ground beef works just fine. Anything that isn't terribly fatty, basically.
Power bars...I have a recipe that I sort of work from, though I vary it every time depending on whim and what ingredients I've found on sale. I am currently at work so I can't get my hands on it, but I will be happy to send you a private message later with it enclosed if you like.
Hot Flash - I actually know about drying fruit/leather/making jerky. My dad and I used to do it all the time growing up and he still makes me jerky and sends it to me in care packages now that I'm in college! :) I just have 0 experience with full meals/veggies.
A recipe would be great!
Hot Flash
02-20-2013, 13:39
Hot Flash - I actually know about drying fruit/leather/making jerky. My dad and I used to do it all the time growing up and he still makes me jerky and sends it to me in care packages now that I'm in college! :) I just have 0 experience with full meals/veggies.
A recipe would be great!
What I like about making my own is that A) it's soooo much cheaper than buying backpacker meals, and B) you can leave out things you don't want (like massive amounts of sodium or sugar that are in commercial food) and add extra things you do want.
Oh, also...there's a whole powdered milk made by Nestle that is called Nido. It's great for making meal packets of anything that requires milk. It's not that nasty nonfat powdered milk from a box that used to be the only dry milk around. I throw it in with my Cream of Rice in the morning for trail breakfast, or use it to make creamy sauces on the trail.
What I like about making my own is that A) it's soooo much cheaper than buying backpacker meals, and B) you can leave out things you don't want (like massive amounts of sodium or sugar that are in commercial food) and add extra things you do want.
Oh I know! Being on a budget was what convinced me to dehydrate my own food. I just can't justify spending so much on something I can put some time into and make at home. And you're 100% right - made at home means there's nothing in it I don't know about!
Thanks for the tip on the Nido. I'll look into it! Maybe figure out a way to make a trail mac & cheese. I love that stuff but I just can't stomach Kraft's neon orange pseudo-food. :P
Hot Flash
02-20-2013, 13:52
Oh, I also forgot to mention that I do some lightweight trail foods that many wouldn't even consider...like sushi or wakame salad. :D For sushi, you can bring a vacuum packet of salmon, powdered wasabi, nori sheets, quick-cooking rice, powdered soy sauce, sesame seeds, etc and make spicy salmon rolls. For the salad all you need is dry wakame (seaweed), sesame seeds, wasabi powder, powdered soy sauce, and the olive oil we should all be carrying anyway :) The wakame rehydrates quickly in cold water, then you just squeeze out the excess and add the oil + seasonings and you have a crispy "fresh" salad that is very good for you. Great with those spicy salmon rolls...
Feral Bill
02-20-2013, 13:52
Before long, the weather will allow you to try your food needs and system in the field. Work in a one week hike this summer and you should get a decent staring point worked out. I find I eat less at the beginning of a trip than later. You might want to factor that in.
Hot Flash
02-20-2013, 13:54
Oh I know! Being on a budget was what convinced me to dehydrate my own food. I just can't justify spending so much on something I can put some time into and make at home. And you're 100% right - made at home means there's nothing in it I don't know about!
Thanks for the tip on the Nido. I'll look into it! Maybe figure out a way to make a trail mac & cheese. I love that stuff but I just can't stomach Kraft's neon orange pseudo-food. :P
Alfredo sauces, spaghetti sauces, and cheese sauces dehydrate, too :)
Hot Flash - you are an amazing person and I think I love you. :P Thanks for the wealth of knowledge!
Feral Bill - I'm definitely planning on testing the food out in the field soon! I live in PA now, sadly away from my native NC mountains, but I think I can take a little while off of work or at least take a few weekend trips to the PA mountains and give some trails a shot. I don't know that I'd be able to take a full week off at any point in time, but I'll just have to see how it goes! :)
Hot Flash
02-20-2013, 14:03
Hot Flash - you are an amazing person and I think I love you. :P Thanks for the wealth of knowledge!
Feral Bill - I'm definitely planning on testing the food out in the field soon! I live in PA now, sadly away from my native NC mountains, but I think I can take a little while off of work or at least take a few weekend trips to the PA mountains and give some trails a shot. I don't know that I'd be able to take a full week off at any point in time, but I'll just have to see how it goes! :)
Test the food out at home first, I've made some truly awful concoctions that I'm glad I wasn't stuck eating out on the trail. :D
Test the food out at home first, I've made some truly awful concoctions that I'm glad I wasn't stuck eating out on the trail. :D
That's part of the plan! Get a dehydrator, make food, eat food, make food, hike, eat food. It's a system :P I have no doubt I'll have some pretty good horror stories about some dishes by the time I'm all done like the thread where people thought their soap was olive oil or that their gasoline was water. Yikes!
PD230SOI
02-20-2013, 14:18
I have two different Polar models. One is fairly basic and the other is away at the other end of the spectrum that almost makes me coffee while I run!
One is fairly basic and the other is away at the other end of the spectrum that almost makes me coffee while I run!
Hahaha. If only I liked coffee ;)
Hot Flash
02-20-2013, 14:42
That's part of the plan! Get a dehydrator, make food, eat food, make food, hike, eat food. It's a system :P I have no doubt I'll have some pretty good horror stories about some dishes by the time I'm all done like the thread where people thought their soap was olive oil or that their gasoline was water. Yikes!
If the soap you are carrying is the same color as your olive oil, put a few drops of food coloring into it.
put a few drops of food coloring into it.
Would that dye anything you're working with? I guess not since Dawn dish soap is blue...
Hot Flash
02-20-2013, 15:30
I haven't had any issues with it, but we're talking a couple of drops just to make it look different. You can always put it in the olive oil instead...
I'm guessing it would be fine! A lot of soaps are weird colors so it can't be too bad!
rocketsocks
02-20-2013, 16:27
sdh59, I know zilch about weight loss, never had to do it really (skinny guy with a little mid drift)...except for water weight, which came right off. But just wanted to also say :welcometo Whiteblaze.
Thanks rocketsocks! I'm not really looking for weight loss (though I know it will happen). I just wanted to know how many calories to bring with me! :)
I'm not planning 20+ a day at all! I was planning 10-15, hoping for 12-13 on average over the whole trip. With the 4000-4500 (tel:4000-4500), though, now it seems like the flip-side and that seems too low. I tried to base it off of the calculators recommended on here and then a spreadsheet I found in the way back times of this site (can't find the link now, I'll keep looking).
There have been a multitude of threads on calories per mile/day. Take your pick
http://www.google.com/search?q=white+blaze&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari#hl=en&client=safari&q=+site:whiteblaze.net+white+blaze+calories+mile&sa=X&ei=-TIlUZDFA-v00QHk6oFg&ved=0CDYQrQIwAA&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&bvm=bv.42661473,d.dmQ&fp=5075081812dbbf0d&biw=1024&bih=672
There have been a multitude of threads on calories per mile/day. Take your pick
Yes, I know. And just like I initially wrote, I've use MANY of the calories/day/hour/mile/whatever calculators both on this site and off of it. My issue was the number from those calculators is that it seemed impossibly high, and then your number seemed impossibly low.
Mr. Clean
02-22-2013, 06:39
A trail bar recipe that I got from Gumball is this:
Trail Dots -
3 cups oatmeal (dry)
3.5 cups anything
mix together and add 3 T melted butter
add 1 can condensed milk
mix and bake at 325 for 15-20 minutes
I make mine in those muffin top pans, sometimes use fat free condensed milk, and will put dried fruit, nuts, m&ms, coconut, etc in them. They are a hardish consistensy.
takethisbread
02-22-2013, 09:35
Re supply is so frequent you can let your body tell you. It will fall into place quickly. You can re supply at the 30 mile mark, so no need to stress. Always carry two Extra meals is a rule I try to follow in case you get hung up by terrain or weather .
Thanks rocketsocks! I'm not really looking for weight loss (though I know it will happen). I just wanted to know how many calories to bring with me! :)
MuddyWaters
02-22-2013, 09:52
I am not being mean.
But if you weight 320, you should not claim that you are in "fairly good physical condition", you are not.
You just dont have serious health problems due to it apparently, which is good, but is far from the same thing.
I dont think you are realistic with yourself about the difficulties you will encounter at that weight.
Hey guys! This is my first post, but I did my research before posting! I see a lot on here that the "average" person burns 5000-7000 calories a day hiking. By average I'm going to assume ~165 lbs of whatever gender you please.
Now, I'm a larger lady and I've been looking at every online calculator posted at they pretty much all say that hiking 8 hours a day at whatever pace they set (not really sure why they go by time rather than miles at x miles an hour) would have me burning 8000-9000 calories on top of my ~2200 BMR. Is that accurate? I find it really hard to believe that I could burn 10000 calories a day, even at the beginning, but that's what pretty much all of the internet is throwing back at me. Are these calculators to be taken with a grain of salt? Is there something that I'm missing?
Thoughts?
First of all, even "scientific" generalizations tend to be over generalizations. When we talk about an average person burning 5000-7000 calories a day hiking it does not mean the average person in North American, or the World, or even the average hiker in North America or the World. So who then, does burn 5000-7000 calories a day hiking? Not as many people as most might think.
Secondly, it is not a function of body weight. A better indicator would be lean body mass. An even better indicator than that would be your cardiovascular capacity. It really comes down to how much work you legs can do in one day, and still repair themselves in order to do it again the next day. For that endurance athletes that use their legs alot tend to outperform strength athletes with more upper body muscle mass. So it's not really a function of body weight, or lean body weight, or even lung power, but lung power is probably a pretty good indicator.
Thirdly, even Basal Metabolic Rate should not be based on total body weight. While body fat does contribute to your basal metabolic rate, it doesn't as much as muscle. Brain contributes the most, pound for pound, but it is pretty much constant. I would calculate your BMR first, based on your age, gender, lean body mass, additional body fat, using several formulas available. I would then measure it by keeping track of food intake over a 10 day period without much activity or weight change, and subtract off whatever activity was performed.
Finally, determine for yourself how much you can outperform your BMR over a long period. It is easier if you spread the work over 8-12 hours rather than 1-2 hours a day of higher intensity exercise, but it is still hard to keep up. If you have a BMR of 2000 calories, which might be slightly above average but a good round number for younger men, then you might be able to do another 2 or 3 times that much in one day, but perhaps only 2 times that much day in and day out for an extended period. That would be where the 5000-7000 would come in, for the 'average' young male hiker, in my opinion.
I am 6' 210 pounds, 50 year old male. I am overweight but I still have good endurance. At 185 10 years ago I could run a 43min 10k and a 100min 20k and a mile under 6 minutes. More recently, close to that if I got my weight back down. So I would say I am above average, but I would also say 5000-7000 calories a day is a stretch for me. Perhaps with time, if my body held up, I could do better.
Once you figure out how many calories per day you can maintain, from their you should be able to figure out how many miles per day you can maintain. Mile per day is a function of your net energy capacity (Total Calories - Basal Calories ) divided by your total weight on feet including gear etc. You could also factor in net elevation gain where ever 500 feet gain is the equivalent of an extra mile. however you work it, if you reduce weight on feet by 10% you can cover 10% more distance.
How do some do 30 miles per day, or better?
1. They are fit enough to maintain 4-6 times their basal metabolism compared to 2 for most of us.
2. They don't have excess gear weight, body fat, or muscle bulk.
So fitness will get you about 2 to 3 times as far, and being lean can make that more like 3 to 5.
10 miles per day for an 'average' person, 30 to 50 miles per day for an 'elite' endurance hike.
If the 'average' person is 180-200 pounds including gear, that might be 5000 calories per day.
If the 'elite' endurance hiker is 160-180 pounds with gear, that might be 8000 to 12000.
I'm curious, does anyone know of successful 300+ lb thru hikers? I'm sure it could be done; they'd have to be really tough. What's the heaviest you've ever seen a person complete a thru hike?
I ran into several people who had lost more than sixty pounds during their hikes. Since they were not exactly scrawny even then, they must have been around 300 when they started.
atraildreamer
02-22-2013, 11:46
First of all, even "scientific" generalizations tend to be over generalizations. When we talk about an average person burning 5000-7000 calories a day hiking it does not mean the average person in North American, or the World, or even the average hiker in North America or the World. So who then, does burn 5000-7000 calories a day hiking? Not as many people as most might think.
Secondly, it is not a function of body weight. A better indicator would be lean body mass. An even better indicator than that would be your cardiovascular capacity. It really comes down to how much work you legs can do in one day, and still repair themselves in order to do it again the next day. For that endurance athletes that use their legs alot tend to outperform strength athletes with more upper body muscle mass. So it's not really a function of body weight, or lean body weight, or even lung power, but lung power is probably a pretty good indicator.
Thirdly, even Basal Metabolic Rate should not be based on total body weight. While body fat does contribute to your basal metabolic rate, it doesn't as much as muscle. Brain contributes the most, pound for pound, but it is pretty much constant. I would calculate your BMR first, based on your age, gender, lean body mass, additional body fat, using several formulas available. I would then measure it by keeping track of food intake over a 10 day period without much activity or weight change, and subtract off whatever activity was performed.
Finally, determine for yourself how much you can outperform your BMR over a long period. It is easier if you spread the work over 8-12 hours rather than 1-2 hours a day of higher intensity exercise, but it is still hard to keep up. If you have a BMR of 2000 calories, which might be slightly above average but a good round number for younger men, then you might be able to do another 2 or 3 times that much in one day, but perhaps only 2 times that much day in and day out for an extended period. That would be where the 5000-7000 would come in, for the 'average' young male hiker, in my opinion.
I am 6' 210 pounds, 50 year old male. I am overweight but I still have good endurance. At 185 10 years ago I could run a 43min 10k and a 100min 20k and a mile under 6 minutes. More recently, close to that if I got my weight back down. So I would say I am above average, but I would also say 5000-7000 calories a day is a stretch for me. Perhaps with time, if my body held up, I could do better.
Once you figure out how many calories per day you can maintain, from their you should be able to figure out how many miles per day you can maintain. Mile per day is a function of your net energy capacity (Total Calories - Basal Calories ) divided by your total weight on feet including gear etc. You could also factor in net elevation gain where ever 500 feet gain is the equivalent of an extra mile. however you work it, if you reduce weight on feet by 10% you can cover 10% more distance.
How do some do 30 miles per day, or better?
1. They are fit enough to maintain 4-6 times their basal metabolism compared to 2 for most of us.
2. They don't have excess gear weight, body fat, or muscle bulk.
So fitness will get you about 2 to 3 times as far, and being lean can make that more like 3 to 5.
10 miles per day for an 'average' person, 30 to 50 miles per day for an 'elite' endurance hike.
If the 'average' person is 180-200 pounds including gear, that might be 5000 calories per day.
If the 'elite' endurance hiker is 160-180 pounds with gear, that might be 8000 to 12000.
What JAK is saying is right on target. I'd sum it up as saying that everyone is different. Find out what works for you. A few years ago, I posted the following article at WB. Download the Diet Log and the Expanded Nutribase Table. Plug in some numbers and the Diet Log will generate a lot of useful information to help you establish your own baseline. The Nutribase Table will give you an approximate idea of calories burned at various activity levels. Hope this helps. :)
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?58026-An-Interactive-Tool-for-Weight-Control&highlight=
First of all, even "scientific" generalizations tend to be over generalizations. When we talk about an average person burning 5000-7000 calories a day hiking it does not mean the average person in North American, or the World, or even the average hiker in North America or the World. So who then, does burn 5000-7000 calories a day hiking? Not as many people as most might think.
Secondly, it is not a function of body weight. A better indicator would be lean body mass. An even better indicator than that would be your cardiovascular capacity. It really comes down to how much work you legs can do in one day, and still repair themselves in order to do it again the next day. For that endurance athletes that use their legs alot tend to outperform strength athletes with more upper body muscle mass. So it's not really a function of body weight, or lean body weight, or even lung power, but lung power is probably a pretty good indicator.
Thirdly, even Basal Metabolic Rate should not be based on total body weight. While body fat does contribute to your basal metabolic rate, it doesn't as much as muscle. Brain contributes the most, pound for pound, but it is pretty much constant. I would calculate your BMR first, based on your age, gender, lean body mass, additional body fat, using several formulas available. I would then measure it by keeping track of food intake over a 10 day period without much activity or weight change, and subtract off whatever activity was performed.
Finally, determine for yourself how much you can outperform your BMR over a long period. It is easier if you spread the work over 8-12 hours rather than 1-2 hours a day of higher intensity exercise, but it is still hard to keep up. If you have a BMR of 2000 calories, which might be slightly above average but a good round number for younger men, then you might be able to do another 2 or 3 times that much in one day, but perhaps only 2 times that much day in and day out for an extended period. That would be where the 5000-7000 would come in, for the 'average' young male hiker, in my opinion.
I am 6' 210 pounds, 50 year old male. I am overweight but I still have good endurance. At 185 10 years ago I could run a 43min 10k and a 100min 20k and a mile under 6 minutes. More recently, close to that if I got my weight back down. So I would say I am above average, but I would also say 5000-7000 calories a day is a stretch for me. Perhaps with time, if my body held up, I could do better.
Once you figure out how many calories per day you can maintain, from their you should be able to figure out how many miles per day you can maintain. Mile per day is a function of your net energy capacity (Total Calories - Basal Calories ) divided by your total weight on feet including gear etc. You could also factor in net elevation gain where ever 500 feet gain is the equivalent of an extra mile. however you work it, if you reduce weight on feet by 10% you can cover 10% more distance.
How do some do 30 miles per day, or better?
1. They are fit enough to maintain 4-6 times their basal metabolism compared to 2 for most of us.
2. They don't have excess gear weight, body fat, or muscle bulk.
So fitness will get you about 2 to 3 times as far, and being lean can make that more like 3 to 5.
10 miles per day for an 'average' person, 30 to 50 miles per day for an 'elite' endurance hike.
If the 'average' person is 180-200 pounds including gear, that might be 5000 calories per day.
If the 'elite' endurance hiker is 160-180 pounds with gear, that might be 8000 to 12000.
To translate this into English---There are many variables which determine what your caloric needs will be---and no two people are alike. There are several ways to calculate and predict (a bit more closely and accurately) what your caloric needs may be. JAK then outlines those a method or two.
I am just a simple country boy--so my answer is this....
Bottom line: You are probably going to burn a great many calories when you hike. The calculators will give you a good GENERAL idea as a starting point. However, you will just have to just get out there, experiment and see what works for you. Without some testing, no one can tell you--with great accuracy--how many calories you will really need.
If you really are able to consistently hike 12-13 mile days at your current body weight--the calculators might not be too far off regarding the number of calories burned.
I applaud your desire to get out there and do this. I wish you luck and much success.
My own personal experience (and the experience of many people that I have talked to) would seem to indicate that (when backpacking) extra weight (either body weight or pack weight) often takes its toll on things like knees, ankles and feet. I think that factor will perhaps limit your miles per day and probably have you hiking closer to the 6-8 mile per day range-especially in the first month. That will perhaps mean you that burn less calories per day. However, it may also increase the number of days between food resupply and cause you to carry more days worth of food at a time. Either way, you probably need to resign yourself (like most hikers do) to carrying a lot more food than you initially envisioned. The amount of calories that we consume at home is rarely close to what we need on the trail. We often have to double or triple that "at home" caloric amount when we hike--if we want to hike in a healthy fashion.
At 5'7" 180 lbs (yes, overweight)--I typically lose 5-7 lbs of weight in a week when backpacking 15 miles per day (over rough terrain) on a 5000-5500 calorie per day diet. Your Mileage May Vary.
atraildreamer
02-22-2013, 15:10
Also, for anyone interested, these are the direct download links for whichever thread I found that got me my excel documents.
This is the numbers spreadsheet for a woman. FemaleAdultDietLogVer10.xls (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7898&d=1264447782)
This is the "exercise" spreadsheet! ExpandedNutribaseTable.xls (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=7882&d=1264310505)
Guess I should read ALL of the thread before posting! :D
Glad you found my article. I hope it helped. :)
A lot of hikers seem to loose about one pound/day, if they get out there and actually hike full (8hr+) days and only eat food they carry plus the odd obligatory town gorging.
It's one of the best ways to loose weight, although you do need decent fitness to begin with or you may get either discouraged or injured, or both. In particular, knee problems are rampant among the heaviest hikers and there's not much you can do about that besides loose the weight. Studies show one pound on the body is 4 lbs on the knees== no-win situation if you are too heavy and throw on a heavy pack.
atraildreamer
02-22-2013, 15:21
Deleted...double post! (I hate Windows 8!)
Feral Bill
02-22-2013, 15:30
At your weight, you are unlikely to run short on calories too soon. Perhaps focusing on protein and other nutrients in your diet would be more to the point? Take care and have a great hiking career.
takethisbread
02-22-2013, 15:49
There was a hiker who made it to Maine a couple years ago who started in February at around 500lbs he hiked slowly from what he said, like shelter to shelter the whole way. Don't think he finished, but came close he lost at least 250lbs. There was a woman a little ahead of him that lost 72lbs. I believe. She did very well. Finished
I'm curious, does anyone know of successful 300+ lb thru hikers? I'm sure it could be done; they'd have to be really tough. What's the heaviest you've ever seen a person complete a thru hike?
Another thing to remember is that the caloric needs of women are considerably lower than those of men, even if they are the same height/ideal weight. Even though I'm six feet tall, I hardly lost any weight on 3000 calories/day, plus town stops, during which I ate less than my male counterparts--six doughnuts compared to their twelve doughnuts, and so on.
Another factor that profoundly affects calorie need is the ambient temperature. The last half of my hike, as the temperatures dropped, my appetite skyrocketed. On cold days I was even more ravenous than I was on relatively warm days.
At your weight, you are unlikely to run short on calories too soon. Perhaps focusing on protein and other nutrients in your diet would be more to the point? Take care and have a great hiking career.
I second this as the best advice I've seen so far.
When I am trying to hike weight off, I figure as follows.
I am 6' 210 pounds, 50 years old. Male. My lean body weight is probably 150 pounds.
If I hike all day on a hilly trail, like Fundy Footpath, similar to AT, I hike burn say 6000 cal/day.
When doing that I figure my body is looking for 150g Protien, 450g Carbs, 400g Fat (10%, 30%, 60%)
My body is willing to metabolize 1% of my body fat per day, perhaps 2% when hiking all day.
So that would be 60 pounds x 1-2% or 0.6 to 1.2 pounds, or about 0.55 to 1.1 pounds of actual fatty acids.
Since my body is only looking for 400g of fat, I will only cut that back to 100g in my diet.
So my hiking diet become 150g Protien, 450g Carbs, 100g Fat or 17% 50% 33% by calories for 3600 calories per day.
I could fine tune that a little, because I don't like to go too high on carbs, so 20% 45% 35% works for me.
About 1.5 pound per day actual food, plus another 10-20% in moisture fibre and packaging.
I usually end up eat less, and loose about 0.5 to 1 pound per day.
So fitness will get you about 2 to 3 times as far, and being lean can make that more like 3 to 5.
10 miles per day for an 'average' person, 30 to 50 miles per day for an 'elite' endurance hike.
If the 'average' person is 180-200 pounds including gear, that might be 5000 calories per day.
If the 'elite' endurance hiker is 160-180 pounds with gear, that might be 8000 to 12000.
I know that being fit and lean makes it so much more likely to finish the thru-hike, but as I wrote further down in this comment, I'm actually quite fit. I have a lot of lean body mass (according to my doctors) compared to most 300+ lb people and I can do a lot more than them. I know I'm not aiming for big numbers all the time. I was going to try to follow this (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/content.php?221) as a general guideline which would put me at ~15 miles a day (though from what I can tell that's assuming no rest days). Thank you for all the information!
At your weight, you are unlikely to run short on calories too soon. Perhaps focusing on protein and other nutrients in your diet would be more to the point? Take care and have a great hiking career.
My main focus in my diet is actually protein! :) I'm going lighter on the fats because I have enough on me to last a while ;)
I'm curious, does anyone know of successful 300+ lb thru hikers? I'm sure it could be done; they'd have to be really tough. What's the heaviest you've ever seen a person complete a thru hike?
I found something about a 340 lb guy who thru-hiked it. Can't remember his name now.
But if you weight 320, you should not claim that you are in "fairly good physical condition", you are not.
I actually am in good physical condition. Better than all my thin friends. I ran a 10k last April at this weight in under an hour. I've been hiking at this weight for years. I was on my high school tennis team at this weight. I do olympic lifting and crossfit at this weight. For you to say I'm not in good physical condition based solely on my weight is, at best, an ignorant assumption.
HikerMom58
02-22-2013, 20:30
sdh59.. there was a guy in 2010 that hiked the trail. His name was Heartbeat. I think he started hiking at around the 300 lb weight. I might be mistaken. Anyway, he was going strong when I saw him in Franklin. I hope he finished. Sounds like you know your stuff! :)
Thanks HikerMomKD! I've been in the woods since I was 2 months old and they're like my home away from home. I've been hiking the Blue Ridge Mountains my entire life so I know I can do it! :)
I, too, am a larger gal. For 4 years, I have been looking at how to minimize my pack weight. I have finally realized, I need to worry about the weight I have on me BEFORE I put the pack on. For this reason, I am losing at least 15% of my body weight before I hike this summer (I have lost 6 percent so far!).
Rather than obsess about how to shave a pound or two off my pack - I am shaving it off of myself by hitting the local gym at least 4 times if not 5 times a week. I also joined weight watchers, which is helping me monitor how/what I eat.
Yes, at 320 you may be fit. My husband's best friend is 6'8" and #325. He works out several times a week - but doesn't watch his caloric intake. This past summer he had major issues day hiking a 15 mile section of the AT (day hiking - without a full pack - carrying water and lunch only...). Even for those who are fit, the mountains are a different beast....
Sdh59,
If you are looking for reasonably healthy dehydrated meal recipes, check out hungryhammockhanger.com I pretty much use all his recipes for backpacking.
Thanks HikerMomKD! I've been in the woods since I was 2 months old and they're like my home away from home. I've been hiking the Blue Ridge Mountains my entire life so I know I can do it! :)
why not go hiking for a week and set your expected miles before you start and see how far you really do. That might be a simple way of working out calories needed used if you post a start and finish weight ?
Thanks Deacon!
shelb - I'm not really sure what your point was? Like I've said numerous times, I've been hiking since I was little so I know what I'm capable of.
david_1 - I think I'm going to get one of those fitbits or BodyBuggs or something like that and go out for a week over spring break and actually figure out how many calories I burn a day! :)
Hi,
I apologize for not addressing your original question in my prior post.
Regarding your original post, you asked about caloric intake. Our family has found that it depends on the length of hiking. For the first week or two, the hunger level goes WAY down. After that, it goes up! However, it is difficult to guage how much is needed and to coordinate the timing with resupplies. Rather, it is easier to just handle it based on what is available at each resupply point. I realize this sounds rather unorganized - I thought so too - when I did my first few 100 mile section hikes. However, if you were ask those who ACTUALLY DID COMPLETE a thru-hike, they will tell you to resupply more.
shelb - Ohhh, I get it! I see how that connects now. Thank you! :)