View Full Version : Hiker Employment
...I am merely an individual contributor in my current day job but did have authority to hire and, perhaps, will have that authority again. Please pardon the ramblings but I thought I better post this while it was on the brain...
1) What traits would you look for in a new hire? What traits would you promote if seeking new employment? While pondering that, what traits do most long trail thruhikers and dedicated long term sections hikers have? Are they not the same?
2) I submit that those traits that long term hikers take to the trailhead, develop and learn along the way are THE qualities sought after by employers (for many, not all, postions). These traits also span the ages, gender, race and background.
3) No free rides (at least not for most of us) but we should keep this in mind the next time we apply for new work. Play the cards you have and play them as well as you did on that hike. Prepare as you did for that long walk (just don't wear a shirt you have been wearing for 5 days straight...)
4) No guarantee for the those doing the hiring but allow some free speaking and see what they show. If you are looking for someone who can "think on their feet" then...dua. If you are looking for someone who can make quick decisions, who will not avoid decisions, who will quickly adapt & adjust when they make a poor decision then what have we here? If you are looking for someone who can plan and adjust their plan as conditions change then who better (perhaps)?
Commitment
Drive
Determination
What else do you possess? What else are you looking for in an employee?
Chat freely and feel free to educate those who do not, yet, have a clue....:)
Perhaps Hikers can change the direction of business in America? I sure hope someone can or my job is going to China......
yellowtree
06-13-2005, 22:20
Whats going on with your job? What pursuaded you to write this? Maybe you should get a job in an outdoor store selling things to hikers? Apply at REI
"What's going on with your job?" It's a deadend in the line of work I've been in since, well, for a long time. 'Imagineering' so to speak. I teach machines to do things in a way that uses the least amount of energy, requires the least amount of time and results in the highest possible yields with the least amount of waste and downtime. Not much call for my kind, these days, in the States.
"What pursuaded you to write this?" I read the Only Wanderer's 'enjoy life now' link and began thinking about IT again.
Perhaps I will apply at REI tomorrow. There is one less than an hour away. Still have to pay the mortgage / insurance....
Whats going on with your job? What pursuaded you to write this? Maybe you should get a job in an outdoor store selling things to hikers? Apply at REI
That's pretty funny.
Along with retail and door-to-door sales experience, I sent a "hiking resume" (Triple Crown, nearly 10,000 miles) to five local outfitters and never heard a peep.
Perhaps I'm over qualified... :datz
That's pretty funny.
Along with retail and door-to-door sales experience, I sent a "hiking resume" (Triple Crown, nearly 10,000 miles) to five local outfitters and never heard a peep.
Perhaps I'm over qualified... :datz
Generally, they don't care about your outdoor qualifications... they care about your sales qualifications. And, since you do have that much experience, you can use that as leverage for more $$$, so they tend to shy away from that. So, yeah, you are over qualified! :p
Well Sly I think you are OVER qualified to work at a store that sells backpacking equipment. They need people who will sell you S**T that you don't need. Why would they hire a honest guy with lots of experience? When I was replacing some of the smaller items I needed - I went to EMS in West Lebanon, NH. Not a single long distance hiker on the whole staff. And yes they were trying to sell me things I did not need. I have repeatly been the hiring position and quite often have run into other hikers whom I hired almost instantly after chatting with them.
Well Sly I think you are OVER qualified to work at a store that sells backpacking equipment. They need people who will sell you S**T that you don't need. Why would they hire a honest guy with lots of experience? When I was replacing some of the smaller items I needed - I went to EMS in West Lebanon, NH. Not a single long distance hiker on the whole staff. And yes they were trying to sell me things I did not need. I have repeatly been the hiring position and quite often have run into other hikers whom I hired almost instantly after chatting with them.I met a guy at the Hiker Hostel in GA, who was replacing a lot of gear at Neels Gap. He prepared for his thruhike by going to an REI. THe salesclerk said he was a former thruhiker and sold this guy a LOT of heavy gear. When he got home and looked at his stuff, he realized he had about 70 pounds of gear and the pack was only rated to 65 pounds. So he went back to REI and ask about it. The salesclerk sold him a bigger pack.
THAT is the kind of clerk REI is looking for. Not a thruhiker with experience who will say, "You don't need this."
To me this is criminal, but I doubt REI is the only offender.
Perhaps a couple of us need to get into management at REI and change their retail image? I've only visited this one in mid Tennessee once (the rest was mail order) and was never steered to anything I didn't need, always received a swift and realistic answer to my questions and was overall satisfied with that experience. Not at all the same type of experience as, say, at MRO but overall OK. ((I do wish we had an MRO satellite shop nearby though......(Dave, TN sales tax sucks though) :)
Anyone have a piss poor experience with this REI shop near Franklin TN?
I, too, would much rather shop where I knew the staff would suggest & promote what I did need, even if they didn't carry it for some reason. I would also rather be told I had goofed with a previous purchase (from anywhere) than be smiled at and agreed with on such goofs in pre-sale conversation. A shop like this would hire hikers.
Lone Wolf
06-14-2005, 13:03
I would never be hired at an outfitter cuz I know nothing about alcohol stoves, hiking poles, water treatment/filtering/hydration systems, hammocks, titanium or any other of the new-fangled systems and s**t that hikers think they need. Even though I've hiked thousands of miles on the AT. :D
Footslogger
06-14-2005, 13:15
I did the whole "outfitter thing" part-time with REI for 5 years before relocating to Wyoming (no stores out here). Primary motive was discounts/ProDeals on gear (which I took full advantage of) and being able to hang with other outdoor folks. I went in with a good level of knowledge and took advantage of all training opportunities offered. Example ...I was put through the Phil Ohren Super Feet course and was one of a few people trained to measure/evaluate hikers feet and make custom footbeds.
Can't speak for other outfitters but REI tends to hire a lot of part-timers who really don't know much about gear/clothing and don't really want to learn. I think the ratio back then was around 80% part-time and 20% full timers. Some people approach the job with a good background and some just need a job and want access to discounts. The latter group doesn't tend to stay very long. In fact, turn-over in general is high, at least in my experience.
Not sure I could survive there full time as a sole source of employment. Too many rules/regulations and corporate BS but as a part time gig it's a gas. You get to play with all the new stuff and deal directly with a lot of the vendors. Whether you like/use all the different stuff or not you end up knowing a lot about it just by osmosis.
'Slogger
AT 2003
Well Sly I think you are OVER qualified to work at a store that sells backpacking equipment.
But I really would have liked a pro-deal on a top end Marmot or Western Mountaineering sleeping bag!
But I digress. Now I'm stuck selling cow***** to dopes at the Home Depot. One good thing is I've had it up to my eye balls and am just about ready to break out and go for another long walk.
I would never be hired at an outfitter cuz I know nothing about alcohol stoves, hiking poles, water treatment/filtering/hydration systems, hammocks, titanium or any other of the new-fangled systems and s**t that hikers think they need. Even though I've hiked thousands of miles on the AT. :DYeah, LW, they'd be missing out not hiring a genuine, bonafide trail legend like you. Why, I'd go there just to meet ya!
Bolo
Lone Wolf
06-14-2005, 13:45
I'm just hiker trash. I ain't no legend. Baltimore Jack is a legend. :D
Bankrobber
06-14-2005, 13:55
I was in the REI in San Diego yesterday afternoon. Much of the staff appeared to have little to no outdoor experience. If they only staffed their stores with people who personally knew the equipment, I would be more confident in purchases made there.
...as far as employment, I was thinking for any work, not just hike/outdoors related. Sales, marketing, engineering, inventory, shipping, export/import, machine, assembly, repair, investment, government, just about anything requiring a stand up kinda person with a good work ethic with first hand knowledge on handling adversity a plus. Couple that with a background in the field and/or certification. One candidate has walked x1000 miles with a pack on their back, and met their goal(s), the others have not. Means something to me.
I'm just hiker trash. I ain't no legend. Baltimore Jack is a legend. :D
Yup, I guess that's why he gets hired at outfitters when others don't. ;)
But Jack hires on as a temp right?
But Jack hires on as a temp right?
I worked a lot of temp work early in my working days. Usually, it wound up as a permanent job offer. I went through agencys. I went through about three permanent positions over a few years until I settled as an Electrician.
Some times permanent positions wouldn't open up or I would find out that the company only hired temp help and I would eventually move on.
Temp positions are a good way to get into the place of employment.
yellowtree
06-14-2005, 18:45
I originally replied to Tractor because he sounded a little disgruntled that he wasn't working a job that called for the benefits of someone that is a hiker. So I suggested that he try to find a job working in the industry related to what he likes...(Hiking).That was REI, simply because I thought it might encourage him to do something related to his interest in hiking.
Now granted there are a bunch of people in the world who would love to have a job at an outdoor store(FT or PT), because of the (previously mentioned)Osmosis, and the discounts, and new products, and cool people that like the same thing you like...(hiking) If you want that kind of gig go get it.
Or maybe start your own thing...
You could open the first ever Appalachian Temp Agency !!! Or better yet how about a Appalachian Trail Career Counseling Center? The (ATCCC) LOL...I've often wanted to open a store/coffee house for hikers somewhere close to the AT, that would be a choice setup huh?
OK I've rambled enough. CYA
Well Sly I think you are OVER qualified to work at a store that sells backpacking equipment. They need people who will sell you S**T that you don't need. Why would they hire a honest guy with lots of experience? When I was replacing some of the smaller items I needed - I went to EMS in West Lebanon, NH. Not a single long distance hiker on the whole staff. And yes they were trying to sell me things I did not need. I have repeatly been the hiring position and quite often have run into other hikers whom I hired almost instantly after chatting with them.I can understand your disappointment with EMS, I used to work at the one in West Lebanon. EMS is very corporate, especially with the new president, he thinks EMS should be THE outdoor equipment supplier and the only way to do that is sell, sell, sell, especially if you don't need it. When I was trained, we were taught to think in terms of "add-on's," if someone is buying boots, what else can you sell them? Socks, shoelaces, waterproofing, pants, etc. as much as you can that "relates" to the sale.
Not a single long distance hiker on the whole staff. Not true, there is an older guy who has been there 5 years at least named Mark who has done the AT twice and also the PCT. He works evenings, and is usually found in footwear. Trust me, he knows his stuff, and he never tries to sell extras and he promotes ultralight gear. His differences of opinion causes problems with other staff, which is why he's one of my favorite workers there. Talk to him next time, you won't be disappointed.
Lone Wolf
06-14-2005, 19:51
Campmor rocks. No goofy salesmen in khaki with matching shoes trying to sell you the overstock s**t like at REI. EMS too. Same BS.
Just to add on to this thread..
I visited the REI in Boston, Mass some weeks back. I told a clerk I was interested in a sleeping bag stuff sack that would be very light weight, water proof and larger than the one I currently have which is waterproof but rather tight for the bag. The guy talked a good game and sort kinda convinced me this granite gear stuff sack would be ok..a compression stuff sack for 20 bucks.
When I got home I discovered that the bag was 1) heavier than what i currently had, 2) NOT waterproof, and 3) not much roomier than stuff sack I already had.
The sack has been returned to REI. The store really is Not any better than EMS. The salesman are far from experts.
NHHIKER
LW. I like goofy salesmen/women, at least for amusement. They can't sell me anything but it's fun to play now & then.
Would you recommend Campmor's store in Jersey? I've only made a mailorder purchase but that went fine.
Lone Wolf
06-14-2005, 20:24
Yeah. That's what I meant. I've been there 3 times. No sales folks standing around like vultures. They're around if you have a ? but they ain't hovering.
yellowtree
06-15-2005, 00:18
So this has turned into a quite interesting discussion. Wow just one health insurancy video, and look where we are now!
superman
06-15-2005, 08:01
"Perhaps Hikers can change the direction of business in America? I sure hope someone can or my job is going to China......"<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
While some of the traits your looking for you might find in a thru hiker but I doubt if you’re looking in the right place for the savior of "good jobs" in the USA. For most of us hiking is a time out from the world of employment. We bring to hiking the traits we already had...good or bad. Yes, long distance hiking can work better for those who are flexible, can adapt to the variety of daily situations yet be punctual performers. The good American jobs in my opinion are being lost through no fault of the American worker. Basically the American workers are being sold out in my opinion. While many hikers may have positive attributes they are no better than and are simply a sub part of the American working whole. <o:p></o:p>
Maybe I miss-read the original question. Maybe I don't see this right. Since retiring my main function has been heavy looking on with a propensity to gawk.:datz
superman.
Interesting and I must agree with most of your post points, understand all. I posted the original thoughts as if shooting an arrow while blindfolded (soft/blunt tip b.t.w. so no creatures would be harmed in any way...). Glad to see a variety of responses.
No magic bullet(s). No quick fix here or there.
Perhaps my base thinking is on a shift in what American business considers "positive attributes" these days. I related that to hiking since that is what i seem to be planning for and thinking about a lot these days. I DO need to take another hike....
sherrill
06-15-2005, 11:16
I try to support local outfitters when I can, but I don't mind REI. Anywhere I shop I try to go in informed beforehand.
Our guides in Alaska referred to REI as "Returns, Exchanges, International".
The Cheat
06-15-2005, 11:28
I originally replied to Tractor because he sounded a little disgruntled that he wasn't working a job that called for the benefits of someone that is a hiker. So I suggested that he try to find a job working in the industry related to what he likes...(Hiking).That was REI, simply because I thought it might encourage him to do something related to his interest in hiking.
Now granted there are a bunch of people in the world who would love to have a job at an outdoor store(FT or PT), because of the (previously mentioned)Osmosis, and the discounts, and new products, and cool people that like the same thing you like...(hiking) If you want that kind of gig go get it.
Or maybe start your own thing...
You could open the first ever Appalachian Temp Agency !!! Or better yet how about a Appalachian Trail Career Counseling Center? The (ATCCC) LOL...I've often wanted to open a store/coffee house for hikers somewhere close to the AT, that would be a choice setup huh?
OK I've rambled enough. CYA
Okay, here's the plan: A chain of stores about 50 to 100 miles apart all the way from Springer to Katahdin. Totally staffed by hikers, who work a couple of days then walk to the next one. They only use the stuff they sell, and they only sell the stuff they use. Open 7 days a week of course, because new staff is constantly rotating in and out.
Cheat.
Great scott man! I think you are on to something. Shuttles & vehicle move services as well perhaps? Barter considered. Repairs and replacements arranged (possibly for up or down trail if not handy on-site). Direct and/or indirect relationships with hostels, outfitters. Open every day at peak times, Open less in off times. Candle in the window and somebody's home.
Yeah! I have been in a position to hire employees. Of course you check the work history-education qualifications, but the "activities" listed can tell you a great deal about the person.
If I saw "throughhiker" type of activities listed it would get my attention. It shows dedication, the ability to plan, and the chances of that person being a whiner is slim. Similarly, I saw an application that listed bow hunter.
As for working at an outfitter, I worked part time at an EMS and found most of my co-workers to be very interesting people. I pissed of the manager by talking people out of expensive and unnessesary gear all the time. I was the resident expert on GPS units. My main expertise was walking the customer over to the map and guidebook section. The only time I ever sold a GPS was to a delivery driver that used it to plan his delivery routes. My theory was that if people trust the sales staff of an outfitter they will return. Rip them off once and they are gone.
We had a rah-rah meeting with the regional manager for EMS. His words were at the same time depressing and enlightening: "There is nothing in this store that anyone really needs."
The Campmor store in Paramus, NJ is excellent! Lotsa crappy Coleman stuff, but a great variety through the whole range of brands and quality. They let you try stuff out. They have a good boat section featuring "blemished" canoes and kayaks at discounts. Their website is good, and has a good "webbargain" section. I was dating a woman who lived in Ridgewood NJ and she was mad when she found out that I usually stopped at Campmor before I visited her.