March 16th: Bivy or Tarptent?

[JonathanW]

Hello shelter gurus!

I'm planning a NOBO with 15 Mar start date, and am trying to choose the right shelter to carry during those cold initial weeks, erring on the side of safety/dryness. I already have (or will) have access to these options, which I'd prefer to use to save money:

Already have: OR Advanced Bivy, OR Alpine Bivy
Will eventually buy: HS Tarptent (prob Scarp 2)--I plan to get one for later in the summer

I feared the Tarptent wouldn't be as warm/dry in an emergency situation, but is my logic flawed? What would you recommend? If it helps, I plan to sleep in a WM Versalite (10*) on a Prolite.

Thanks for your advice!
Jonathan

[bigcranky]

Have you camped with just the bivy on a longer hike? Set it up in the pouring rain, while trying to keep your sleeping bag dry? A w/b bivy can work with a small tarp, but it's really designed more for climbing than hiking. It's great in a snow cave, for example.

If you're planning to stay in shelters most of the time, then go with the lightest option for emergencies. If you prefer privacy, space, etc., then one of the Tarptents is a better option. That's my experience, anyway, having use various tarptent-like shelters, and breathable bivies with small tarps.

[MuddyWaters]

A bivy in cold, damp conditions is a recipe to end up with a soaking wet sleeping bag.
The bivy shell can get wet all on the inside from condensation, until you are lying in a puddle.

Id go with the tent, and lots of ventillation

[Slo-go'en]

I have an OR advanced bivy and I've never gotten wet from condensation, it breaths pretty well. However, it really does suck in a heavy rain. You do need a good sized tarp to put over it.

It does give you extra warmth in a shelter, which is what I primarly used it for, seeing that the bag I had at the time was well past needing to be replaced. The bivy can also be used pretty much anywhere there is room to lay down and that can be a plus. Combined with a tarp, it can be a viable shelter set up. Just hope you don't actually need it in the rain very often.

That said consider this:

That shelter space might be tight with a middle of March start and that the storms which have been hitting the Appalachian chain about once a week for the last month or so is a pattern which is likely to continue until the end of March. At which point it might turn into a steady drizzle through April.

Should that happen, you'd really be happier with a tent. And if it doesn't you'll still be happier in a tent.

[prain4u]

I have personally never liked sleeping in a bivy. Many--but not all--have condensation issues. (However, the OR Advanced Bivy looks like it might be fairly good in terms of having little condensation).

A bivy is a VERY confined space to be in during an all day rain (or multiple day rain).

Unless you are using a tarp too--sometimes it is challenging to get a sleeping bag into a bivy during wet weather and keep it dry in the process.

Imagine this scenario: You get to camp on a rainy or very snowy day--and you are very wet. Where (and how) are you going to change into dry clothes, get your sleeping bag into the bivy (and keep everything dry)--if you have JUST the bivy? Are then going to bring a tarp too (as some have suggested)?

The OR Advanced Bivy weighs 37.2 oz. (That is over 3 lbs.). If you bring a tarp too, it is not unrealistic to think that a tarp with ropes and stakes will weigh 1 pound (or more). For the same 4 or 5 pounds, you can get a pretty good tent--and still have leftover weight to spare (If you wish, you can then bring some additional lightweight sleeping gear to help you stay warm--and still probably be carrying less weight than a bivy plus tarp).

[prain4u]

ERROR: The BIVY WEIGHS OVER 2 LBS and THE BIVY WITH TARP WOULD WEIGH 3-4 lbs. (It was late and my brain was not doing math very well, sorry!). However, the same principles as mentioned in my post still apply--just slightly different weights involved--and less "spare" weight available to be devoted to additional/warmer sleeping gear.

[T.S.Kobzol]

I would say bivy but only with an addition of a tarp. Pitch the tarp first, nice and steep and low so that it will shed snow and then set up your bivy underneath.

[bigcranky]

ERROR: The BIVY WEIGHS OVER 2 LBS


Heh. This is your brain on math.... :)

MY feeling is that for 2.5 pounds, a Tarptent Notch or Moment would make a much better shelter than a bivy.

[daddytwosticks]

I'd go w/the tarptent. :)

[BirdBrain]

Reading all these posts made me go weigh my bivy. It weighs 23.1 oz. That includes stuff sack and pole.

[doobe01]

My start date is March 15th too. Just to give you an idea I'm bringing a Big Agnes Fly Creek 2 Platinum (1lb 13oz) and using a WM Ultralite 20* (1lb 13oz).

[Sensei]

With a March 15th start the trail will be crowded, so expect to spend a lot of nights in your personal shelter early in the hike. In other words, it will be much more than an emergency shelter. As a tarp camper myself, I still vote tent hands-down.

[JonathanW]

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses! I think I'll go with a tent/tarptent.

I'm definitely hearing a dangerous little voice in my head: owning the OR bivies inclines me to use them, even if they're the wrong gear choices for this long trip. Good to hear voices of experience.

[T.S.Kobzol]

using a bivy does not mean you have to be cocooned and zipped to the teeth inside the bivy. it is almost like cowboy camping with insurance. you can be in it like in the sleeping bag, unzipped, laying on the tarp and that gives you a lot of space to operate. you can pitch the tarp above you to protect you from rain / snow and have the option to zip into the bivy completely in case of a blizzart or torrential rain.

if you combine it witha tarp... think of it like a hammock sleeping system on the ground.

[Slo-go'en]

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses! I think I'll go with a tent/tarptent.

I'm definitely hearing a dangerous little voice in my head: owning the OR bivies inclines me to use them, even if they're the wrong gear choices for this long trip. Good to hear voices of experience.

The Bivy is good in some situations. I often carry mine if indeed it is only for limited/emergency use on short trips or places where I can pretty much count on having shelter space. But for a long trip, the tent will be better. Being able to bring stuff "inside" is a big plus.

[jeffmeh]

I would also recommend a tarptent. That said, I would seriously question the choice of the Scarp 2 on an AT thru-hike. You don't need a 4-season tent, and it would likely be less comfortable than alternatives in warm weather, for a significant weight penalty. If you want lots of room, look at the Squall 2. The Rainbow, Contrail, Moment, and Notch are also good choices.

[Del Q]

Tent, what if you pick up a girl?

Weight of tents these days, definitely go for more room

[Slo-go'en]

Tent, what if you pick up a girl?

Use her tent :)

[Del Q]

Good one, maybe "she" hangs? What then, aerial sex?

[Rasty]

Good one, maybe "she" hangs? What then, aerial sex?

Bungie cords?

[SunnyWalker]

OK, here is my 2 cents worth: Gatewood Cape W/Serenity Net Tent (used in conjunction with the Cape), and REI Minilamist bivi.

[Datto]

Forget the bivy -- take the tarptent. Reason:

It's highly likely, up the Trail after you acclimate to trail life, that you're going to want to continue the peace you've gained during the hiking day. You may/will find that you actually prefer, during good weather, to tent right at the point in the evening when you're done hiking for the day (which may not be where there's a shelter). So you just throw out your tarptent, setup camp, cook dinner using the water you gathered at the last watering hole, relax for the evening in the calm of your campsite (inside the tent if there are bugs), look around and enjoy all the splendor that surrounds you and then go to sleep in the peace you've retain from the hiking day. The next morning you wake up, the peace is still there and with you and at your leisure you pack up and start hiking again.

I don't know if I met anyone on my AT thru-hike who was carrying a bivy. Just didn't seem to be that good of a solution for an AT thru-hiker. Particularly in the Swamp Fuss of New Jersey and Connecticut where you'll want to sit up and be protected from the bugs and relax.


Datto

[Datto]

Buy the way, I used a one-person Nomad tent for my AT thru-hike. Probably the best one-person tent ever made for long-distance hiking (don't think it's made anymore). After my AT thru-hike I switched to a two-person Nomad tent for New Zealand and Scotland then switched to a tarp for the desert portion of the PCT and then back to the 2-person Nomad for the rest of the PCT.

From what I have seen of the tarptents that others have carried they are probably as close to what I got out of my one-person Nomad that I could buy today.


Datto

[q-tip]

Warm is the sleeping bag-dry is the tent--a bivy might be difficult to use considering long nights in March-Aril

[SunnyWalker]

Read the post again, RE bivis.

[daddytwosticks]

Good one, maybe "she" hangs? What then, aerial sex? Don't forget your Cuben condom. :)

[Coosa]

BIVY LIFE IS NOT FOR EVERYONE. However, if you're going to spend your nights on the Trail in a Shelter most of the time, it's ideal. Especially if you sleep on your back and you like to snuggle into your covers. In a bivy, you are protected from dirt, shelter mice, spiders, mosquitoes, ticks and other bugs.

I LOVE my Bivy ... REI Minimalist ... 15 ounces. USE WITH A SMALL TARP. http://www.bearpawwd.com/tents_tarps/tarps.html

Silnylon
6.5'x10': 12 oz.
5'x10': 8 oz.

OR CUBEN
6.5'x10': 7 oz.
5'x10': 5.5 oz

I especially like the many loops on the surface of these tarps ... while you're looking, check out their CUSTOM WORK tab ...

I am about to purchase a 6.5x10 silnylon tarp ... in grey I guess. My bivy is RED.

:)
Coosa