PDA

View Full Version : can somebody explain to me the advantage of a quilt over a bag?



hikerboy57
02-24-2013, 21:14
outside of the obvious zipper-weight savings, is there any advantage of a quilt vs a sleeping bag?

bigcranky
02-24-2013, 21:20
More room to thrash around. Less confined feeling. Less fabric and down needed for same temp rating.

Cons: no hood.

Stink Bug
02-24-2013, 21:23
The main advantage for me, being that I toss and turn a lot in my sleep and feel too constricted when I'm in my bag, is the freedom. Not having a zipper means not having to deal with a stuck zipper (or fail, as I've had one do on a bag). On warmer nights, I like being able to drape it over me, as I would and stick my feet out

Rocket Jones
02-24-2013, 21:23
Easier to vent if you're too warm. Not laying on top of part of your insulation, rendering it ineffective.

hikerboy57
02-24-2013, 21:30
Easier to vent if you're too warm. Not laying on top of part of your insulation, rendering it ineffective.
what do you lay on?

Stink Bug
02-24-2013, 21:34
what do you lay on?

Sleeping pad, same as you do in your bag. With a bag though, the the insulation you're laying on gets compressed, effectively rendering it useless.

MuddyWaters
02-24-2013, 21:35
your pad provides the insulation under you, you lay on it.
much easier to roll and toss and turn without getting "wrapped up" in the bag
Easier to get in/out of too, mostly. Depends on if using straps and how though.
Its really more like sleeping on a mattress, with a blanket, than sleeping in a sleeping bag.

WILLIAM HAYES
02-24-2013, 21:39
the bottom of the bag gives you little in the way of insulation as you lay on it -its added weight from this perspective compared to a top quilt

Rasty
02-24-2013, 21:42
Like I told you before HB. All the cool kids are using quilts today!

For stomach sleepers a mummy bag is uncomfortable and I always wind up breathing into the hood section. Plus I like to stick my feet outside.

hikerboy57
02-24-2013, 21:42
Sleeping pad, same as you do in your bag. With a bag though, the the insulation you're laying on gets compressed, effectively rendering it useless.
well in my case its not really true. i have a wm highlite mummy style as im a side sleeper and the bag just moves with me when i turn in my sleep, so im compressing different down at different times. i do understand the compression on the bottom. my winter bag is a BA lost ranger, their bags are designed with a sleeve for your pad and all the down on top, on the same principles as youre describing.im not sure i would be comfortable sleeping directly on my pad.
i need you to convince me so i can justify throwing away $1200 worth of sleeping bags and blow some more money on quilts!!

Mags
02-24-2013, 21:52
i need you to convince me so i can justify throwing away $1200 worth of sleeping bags and blow some more money on quilts!!

Only you can convince your self of that. :D

I bought a quilt this past summer. Takes some getting used to, but I like it for 3-season use.

Don't think I'd want to use one for winter, but that's just me. Others love them even for deep winter.

Old Hiker
02-24-2013, 21:52
HikerBoy, glad you started this thread. I was wondering about quilts as well. When I sleep in a bed under a quilt, it doesn't seem to "hug" me and keep me warm like a sleeping bag does. The edges creep around and I get cold air from the outside sneaking in. I can't seem to keep the edges under me while I toss and turn.

Plus, I don't like sleeping on my plastic (closed cell Ridgerest) pad with bare skin.

I'd have to find a fairly cheap one and someplace cold to try it out before I made up my mind.

Stink Bug
02-24-2013, 21:53
well in my case its not really true. i have a wm highlite mummy style as im a side sleeper and the bag just moves with me when i turn in my sleep, so im compressing different down at different times. i do understand the compression on the bottom. my winter bag is a BA lost ranger, their bags are designed with a sleeve for your pad and all the down on top, on the same principles as youre describing.im not sure i would be comfortable sleeping directly on my pad.
i need you to convince me so i can justify throwing away $1200 worth of sleeping bags and blow some more money on quilts!!

Regardless of you being a side sleeper or the bag moving with you, the insulation directly underneath you is compressed enough to reduce its R value. That being said, quilts aren't for everyone and they do have their cons, most noticeably they can let in cold drafts. For me the pros (weight savings, freedom, venting options) vastly outweigh the cons.

SCRUB HIKER
02-24-2013, 22:03
Comfort. Every sleeping position in a quilt feels better to me than in the more confined space of a sleeping bag. I will admit that I never had a really badass down mummy bag before I switched to quilts, so I can't speak to whether my quilt is more comfortable than, say, a Western Mountaineering Summerlite. It's definitely better than the Mountain Hard Wear Phantom and various synthetic bags I'd used before.

Thermoregulating on warm nights is also a lot easier. It requires a lot less thrashing around and zipping/unzipping in the middle of the night.

MuddyWaters
02-24-2013, 22:08
They are great in hot weather too.

Because they are shaped right when opened up (rectangular) , shorter (no hood) , and so darn light (hopefully), they ventillate better than a bag used as a quilt. I have used my 40F quilt comfortably in "blanket mode" when travelling, in a 70F house at night when sleeping on someones floor.

rocketsocks
02-24-2013, 22:09
outside of the obvious zipper-weight savings, is there any advantage of a quilt vs a sleeping bag?Oh most definitely, but just now I'm at a loss.


But since you posted in the very general thread....My big agnus bag has no batting in the back, so if I turn it, say 30 degrees, is that not a quilt?

hikerboy57
02-24-2013, 22:11
Regardless of you being a side sleeper or the bag moving with you, the insulation directly underneath you is compressed enough to reduce its R value. That being said, quilts aren't for everyone and they do have their cons, most noticeably they can let in cold drafts. For me the pros (weight savings, freedom, venting options) vastly outweigh the cons.
but i still have the same pad insulation as you do. the bag stays wrapped around me as i turn in my sleep.not so sure the same can be said for the quilt. those nights its that hot, i sleep on top of my bag anyway

johnnybgood
02-24-2013, 22:16
Oh most definitely, but just now I'm at a loss.



Like Rasty said..."all the cool kids are using quilts today". ...AND they are less constrictive .

hikerboy57
02-24-2013, 22:21
Like Rasty said..."all the cool kids are using quilts today". ...AND they are less constrictive .
i can buy into the cool kids argument.
but im still unconvinced.
but i do so want to be a cool kid

4Bears
02-24-2013, 22:23
For me a bag is just too confining, I tried different styles and sizes just could not get or stay comfortable. I sleep on my side and belly while sticking my feet in and out from under all night. I haven't zipped my sleeping bag in years, just used it as a quilt, when it is time upgrade/replace I will just get a quilt and not have the hood flopping over in my face, but may invest in a down cap for cold weather times. In the mean time I will quick stitch some velcro on my bag to hold the hood in place.

canoe
02-24-2013, 22:41
Go to hammock forum and ask the question

hikerboy57
02-24-2013, 22:44
Go to hammock forum and ask the question

im afraid to. its a different religion over there. im a landlubber

kayak karl
02-24-2013, 22:49
i use my hammock quilts on the ground. even cut the sleeve off of a big angus and use as a quilt. would be more then happy to lone you one to test out before u buy.
KK

HikerMom58
02-24-2013, 22:49
Go to hammock forum and ask the question

Or ask this guy :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5HS-Xeez74

rocketsocks
02-24-2013, 22:50
Like Rasty said..."all the cool kids are using quilts today". ...AND they are less constrictive .Johnny be cool:D

Rasty
02-24-2013, 23:02
Like Rasty said..."all the cool kids are using quilts today". ...AND they are less constrictive .
i can buy into the cool kids argument.
but im still unconvinced.
but i do so want to be a cool kid

You might be a little old to be one of the cool kids!:D

hikerboy57
02-24-2013, 23:04
You might be a little old to be one of the cool kids!:D
i have a bit more experience in coolness, thats all
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_CvhDPqjw0Dk/S6pbiI9CcEI/AAAAAAAAEEM/jAI_B6u116M/s400/joecool.jpg

leaftye
02-24-2013, 23:06
Pro's for quilt: less weight, less bulk, wider range of comfort, less cost.

Con for a quilt: arms can fall off pad.

canoe
02-24-2013, 23:21
Pro's for quilt: less weight, less bulk, wider range of comfort, less cost.

Con for a quilt: arms can fall off pad.

That is what pad wings are for

MuddyWaters
02-24-2013, 23:25
That is what pad wings are for

or shoes work as elbow rests, unless they are your pillow

Hairbear
02-24-2013, 23:34
unzip your bag all the way. Turn it until opening is on the bottom. You will be able to see what its like to use a top quilt. Just imagine the extra material on the sides being gone making it lighter.

garlic08
02-24-2013, 23:40
I'll add two issues to consider--cost and cleanliness.

I got a new 30F quilt made with the finest down for a summer trip last year and it cost less than $200. The equivalent bag would have been at least $50 more.

The quilt stayed much cleaner than a bag would have because I never slept on it. I would lay my clothing on top of the foam pad and that worked fine. After a two-month bicycle tour, including freezing and snow in the North Cascades and some weeks in 100F+ temps in that heat wave last summer, I didn't need to launder the quilt. A few minutes in the sun here and there and it stayed clean.

After the summer in the quilt, I went on a fall trip using a sleeping bag and it was very uncomfortable and restricting. When I need to replace my bag, I will get a quilt.

hikerboy57
02-24-2013, 23:43
I'll add two issues to consider--cost and cleanliness.

I got a new 30F quilt made with the finest down for a summer trip last year and it cost less than $200. The equivalent bag would have been at least $50 more.

The quilt stayed much cleaner than a bag would have because I never slept on it. I would lay my clothing on top of the foam pad and that worked fine. After a two-month bicycle tour, including freezing and snow in the North Cascades and some weeks in 100F+ temps in that heat wave last summer, I didn't need to launder the quilt. A few minutes in the sun here and there and it stayed clean.

After the summer in the quilt, I went on a fall trip using a sleeping bag and it was very uncomfortable and restricting. When I need to replace my bag, I will get a quilt.
well now thats a benefit i hadnt considered., i can see how it would stay cleaner, but i still dont like the idea of just sleeping on my pad.maybe id get used to it, i dont know

MuddyWaters
02-24-2013, 23:50
well now thats a benefit i hadnt considered., i can see how it would stay cleaner, but i still dont like the idea of just sleeping on my pad.maybe id get used to it, i dont know

do you just sleep on your mattress/fitted sheet at home, or do you wrap your comforter/blanket around you and sleep on it too?

Its more natural sleeping, than in a bag, but does have drawbacks

ChinMusic
02-24-2013, 23:53
I select a sleeping bag that will unzip all the way to the feet, having a small foot box. My prefered method is to leave the sleeping bag unzipped in this fashion, basically turning the bag into a quilt.

For nights where it is cold I like the option of zipping it all the way up.

In this way I feel I get the best of both worlds.

hikerboy57
02-24-2013, 23:53
more that i dislike the idea of bare skin on neo air, or even closed cell. id prefer to have some fabric between me and the pad.same as i dont sleep on a bre matress at home, its got a sheet.

garlic08
02-25-2013, 00:00
I'll add two issues to consider--cost and cleanliness.

I got a new 30F quilt made with the finest down for a summer trip last year and it cost less than $200. The equivalent bag would have been at least $50 more.

The quilt stayed much cleaner than a bag would have because I never slept on it. I would lay my clothing on top of the foam pad and that worked fine. After a two-month bicycle tour, including freezing and snow in the North Cascades and some weeks in 100F+ temps in that heat wave last summer, I didn't need to launder the quilt. A few minutes in the sun here and there and it stayed clean.

After the summer in the quilt, I went on a fall trip using a sleeping bag and it was very uncomfortable and restricting. When I need to replace my bag, I will get a quilt.

hikerboy57
02-25-2013, 00:02
I'll add two issues to consider--cost and cleanliness.

I got a new 30F quilt made with the finest down for a summer trip last year and it cost less than $200. The equivalent bag would have been at least $50 more.

The quilt stayed much cleaner than a bag would have because I never slept on it. I would lay my clothing on top of the foam pad and that worked fine. After a two-month bicycle tour, including freezing and snow in the North Cascades and some weeks in 100F+ temps in that heat wave last summer, I didn't need to launder the quilt. A few minutes in the sun here and there and it stayed clean.

After the summer in the quilt, I went on a fall trip using a sleeping bag and it was very uncomfortable and restricting. When I need to replace my bag, I will get a quilt.


I'll add two issues to consider--cost and cleanliness.

I got a new 30F quilt made with the finest down for a summer trip last year and it cost less than $200. The equivalent bag would have been at least $50 more.

The quilt stayed much cleaner than a bag would have because I never slept on it. I would lay my clothing on top of the foam pad and that worked fine. After a two-month bicycle tour, including freezing and snow in the North Cascades and some weeks in 100F+ temps in that heat wave last summer, I didn't need to launder the quilt. A few minutes in the sun here and there and it stayed clean.

After the summer in the quilt, I went on a fall trip using a sleeping bag and it was very uncomfortable and restricting. When I need to replace my bag, I will get a quilt.

is there anything else youd like to add?:)

MuddyWaters
02-25-2013, 00:03
more that i dislike the idea of bare skin on neo air, or even closed cell. id prefer to have some fabric between me and the pad.same as i dont sleep on a bre matress at home, its got a sheet.

Are you implying you sleep naked on the trail?

hikerboy57
02-25-2013, 00:05
Are you implying you sleep naked on the trail?
no. on my pad.never on the trail.
no i usually wear shorts, unless its cooler and ill wear long johns and a t shirt

MuddyWaters
02-25-2013, 00:07
no. on my pad.never on the trail.
no i usually wear shorts, unless its cooler and ill wear long johns and a t shirt

well, they do make a fitted sheet for thermarest pads.
No $hit.
6.5 oz

Covers up those unsightly mattress stains too.

Kookork
02-25-2013, 00:32
If you want to consider a quilt( like me) keep in mind that with a quilt it is better to have a decent R value sleeping pad . Something around R value of 3 for 3 season and more for four season. I have seen many sleeping bag(ers) who has shifted to quilt and never looked back but very few who has shifted from quilt to sleeping bag. It is like the hammock issue( I am not one of them though) which I have not seen too many hammock er who go back to tent after switching to hammock ( unless the train is not suitable for hammock though) .

leaftye
02-25-2013, 00:53
If you're happy with your sleeping bag and aren't looking to save weight or bulk, then don't switch. Do what works for you even if that means carrying a little more. The best gear is what works best for you, which may not what looks best on a spreadsheet.


well, they do make a fitted sheet for thermarest pads.
No $hit.
6.5 oz

Covers up those unsightly mattress stains too.

A sleeping bag liner should work too, and provide another dirt barrier. I'm not a fan of these, but I can understand why some people are happy to carry the extra weight.

Some pads have a nicer surface, and some are atrocious.

wcgornto
02-25-2013, 01:40
more that i dislike the idea of bare skin on neo air, or even closed cell. id prefer to have some fabric between me and the pad.same as i dont sleep on a bre matress at home, its got a sheet.

I agree with this. I am making the switch to a quilt this year, as I find a bag too constricting. I have always used a silk liner in the bag to keep it clean. Now, I will place the silk liner around the pad.

prain4u
02-25-2013, 01:50
I use a quilt and carry a light silk (rectangular) sleeping bag liner. If I am sleeping on the ground and not in my hammock--I use the silk liner like a "bottom sheet". I lay the silk liner on top of the NeoAir mattress--like a sheet. That way, I am not sleeping directly on the NeoAir. If it is cold, I use the silk liner like a thin sleeping bag. It provides an extra lay of warmth. Yes, a little more confining being in the liner--but it adds a few extra degrees of warmth and cuts some of the possible side drafts.

prain4u
02-25-2013, 01:52
CORRECTION: " If it is cold, I use the silk liner like a thin sleeping bag. It provides an extra LAYER of warmth. I use this PLUS the quilt.

rocketsocks
02-25-2013, 06:51
Howard Johnson is right!....a thin film of fabric I've used for comfort...in the summer I've used a flannel sleeping bag liner, and that is all..pretty comfy!


Dis claimer; Cold sweaty wet Cotton kills, know your bag!

OzJacko
02-25-2013, 08:17
My son Daniel considered a DIY quilt as he is big and likes to turn in his sleep.
Instead we ended up getting the (very large) Big Agnes bag that's semi rectangular (more or less) and it has a sleeve on the bottom to slide the mat into instead of down. While his is still heavy due to it's size, I am sure there must be smaller lighter versions of the same design. "Linking" the bag to the mat seems to me to be better than the quilt option, at least in cold conditions.
Quilts seem to me to be best for hammocks.

Mr. Clean
02-25-2013, 09:21
Thanks for this Hikerboy. I also couldn't get my arms around this issue. I have a 20 degree BA with the pad sleeve, but I've never tried it in my hammock in under 40 degrees. I was fine at that temp. A bit hard getting out and back in at night, but otherwise, fine. I'm still not sold on a quilt. Maybe it's a constriction thing rather than a temp thing.
Are you sleeping on the ground?

hikerboy57
02-25-2013, 09:33
Thanks for this Hikerboy. I also couldn't get my arms around this issue. I have a 20 degree BA with the pad sleeve, but I've never tried it in my hammock in under 40 degrees. I was fine at that temp. A bit hard getting out and back in at night, but otherwise, fine. I'm still not sold on a quilt. Maybe it's a constriction thing rather than a temp thing.
Are you sleeping on the ground?

i am a grounddweller, yes.
im still not convinced. if im bringing a silk bag liner for a sheet, the weight savings is negated.
my summer bag has a half length zipper and i can sleep with it open when its warm or sleep on top of it when its hot.
i may try sleeping on my floor at home with just a quilt and pad, see if i like the freedom of moving around in it

MDSection12
02-25-2013, 09:56
I've been using my sleeping bag as a quilt lately. I really prefer it to being fully zipped in. I think I would miss the hood if I went to a quilt though... I like to bunch it up and use it as a (incredibly soft, down) pillow.

bamboo bob
02-25-2013, 10:22
I love my Montbell bag. Snug and warm. Not trading it in. Ignoring the In Crowd. I'll just suffer the "extra" weight of my bag. I hope hope I can handle it without my hike being ruined. The horror.

DeerPath
02-25-2013, 16:34
i have a bit more experience in coolness, thats all
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_CvhDPqjw0Dk/S6pbiI9CcEI/AAAAAAAAEEM/jAI_B6u116M/s400/joecool.jpg

It's expensive beaning cool!
I have the Thermarest Alpine Blanket, snaps to the air mattress, works great!

Dogwood
02-25-2013, 18:38
My son Daniel considered a DIY quilt as he is big and likes to turn in his sleep.
Instead we ended up getting the (very large) Big Agnes bag that's semi rectangular (more or less) and it has a sleeve on the bottom to slide the mat into instead of down. While his is still heavy due to it's size, I am sure there must be smaller lighter versions of the same design. "Linking" the bag to the mat seems to me to be better than the quilt option, at least in cold conditions.
Quilts seem to me to be best for hammocks.

Like you HB, after looking at quilts for a few yrs I finally decided to take the quilt plunge. I've had a GolIte 3 season 20* down quilt now for about 8 months and have about 90 trail nights using it. It's well made. I don't have any issues with that. I used it on a CT thru(Sep- Oct 2012), FHT thru(Jan 2013), in the midst of a Pinhoti thru(now), and then on a BMT thru to follow. It's taken some getting used to!. I'm still working out some bugs.

I think quilts mainly came about through UL circles and to some degree hammockers. The main idea was to save wt and a bit of bulk using your pad/mattress as insulation under you. The common thinking is that crushed insulation underneath has no insulating value. I disagree with that. Even crushed insulatiuon has SOME insulating value. Since I think quilts came out of UL circles I would say many quilts have no hood to save even a bit more wt and a bit more bulk.

Another thing I've noticed that even if you are purchasing the highest end down quilts and comparing that with the highest end down sleeping bags there really isn't that much of a wt(maybe 3-4 oz) or bulk saving(NEGLIGLIBLE!) issue. Money saving thing happening though with quilts. In the real world while on trail the wt savings of my GO Lite quilt(800 down) really isn't that substantial when compared to the lightest highest end 20* down sleeping bags nor is the volume saved, IMO.

I find a quilt has to be matched properly with the right pad/mattress. This is key. For example, if you are a gram weenie like me using a short pad/mattress with a quilt is probably going to mean NO INSULATION under you in part of your lower body! There's going to be a gap between the end of the pad/mattress and the beginning of the quilt's footbox. If you are BIG person or if you are a side turner you might also want to carefully consider the cut out shape of the quilt underneath(usually a V shape) and the width of the quilt. I have a thin build, thrash around in my sleep from side to side, and even with a Neo Air Shortie or Womens(both 20" width, the Women's is 66" long and the Shortie is 47" long) I find I get drafts throughout the night. I've partially solved this by using a bag liner and sometimes a bivy sack. BUT, I DO NOT always want to use a liner or bivy sack! That's where I start having issues in sleeping comfortably near where the quilt is lower temp rated! Although I've had this set-up down to 12*(with Cocoon silk mummy liner and MLD Superlight bivy) I'm starting to come to the opinion that I'd rather go with a high end accurately temp rated down sleeping bag for sleeping conditions 20-25* and below. TO ME, the trade offs in wt and bulk are minimal and afford less of a hassle under those temps. When it gets that cold a integrated hood becomes more functional so the function outweighs the wt savings. Also, IMO, you can't afford drafts or losing thermal efficiency when it gets that cold. Unless I learn something fast that I've been missing I'm quickly coming to the opinion that I'll save quilts for temps above 25-30* and stick with the highest end down sleeping bags for colder temps which means I now have a 20* quilt and would rather have a 20* sleeping bag. Hence, more do re mi.

Starchild
02-25-2013, 19:06
Sleeping pad, same as you do in your bag. With a bag though, the the insulation you're laying on gets compressed, effectively rendering it useless.

Only useless at pressure points, not at the entire 'undercarriage' which does give a bag a slight advantage in warmth, though in weight that's another story.

hikerboy57
02-25-2013, 19:13
Like you HB, after looking at quilts for a few yrs I finally decided to take the quilt plunge. I've had a GolIte 3 season 20* down quilt now for about 8 months and have about 90 trail nights using it. It's well made. I don't have any issues with that. I used it on a CT thru(Sep- Oct 2012), FHT thru(Jan 2013), in the midst of a Pinhoti thru(now), and then on a BMT thru to follow. It's taken some getting used to!. I'm still working out some bugs.

I think quilts mainly came about through UL circles and to some degree hammockers. The main idea was to save wt and a bit of bulk using your pad/mattress as insulation under you. The common thinking is that crushed insulation underneath has no insulating value. I disagree with that. Even crushed insulatiuon has SOME insulating value. Since I think quilts came out of UL circles I would say many quilts have no hood to save even a bit more wt and a bit more bulk.

Another thing I've noticed that even if you are purchasing the highest end down quilts and comparing that with the highest end down sleeping bags there really isn't that much of a wt(maybe 3-4 oz) or bulk saving(NEGLIGLIBLE!) issue. Money saving thing happening though with quilts. In the real world while on trail the wt savings of my GO Lite quilt(800 down) really isn't that substantial when compared to the lightest highest end 20* down sleeping bags nor is the volume saved, IMO.

I find a quilt has to be matched properly with the right pad/mattress. This is key. For example, if you are a gram weenie like me using a short pad/mattress with a quilt is probably going to mean NO INSULATION under you in part of your lower body! There's going to be a gap between the end of the pad/mattress and the beginning of the quilt's footbox. If you are BIG person or if you are a side turner you might also want to carefully consider the cut out shape of the quilt underneath(usually a V shape) and the width of the quilt. I have a thin build, thrash around in my sleep from side to side, and even with a Neo Air Shortie or Womens(both 20" width, the Women's is 66" long and the Shortie is 47" long) I find I get drafts throughout the night. I've partially solved this by using a bag liner and sometimes a bivy sack. BUT, I DO NOT always want to use a liner or bivy sack! That's where I start having issues in sleeping comfortably near where the quilt is lower temp rated! Although I've had this set-up down to 12*(with Cocoon silk mummy liner and MLD Superlight bivy) I'm starting to come to the opinion that I'd rather go with a high end accurately temp rated down sleeping bag for sleeping conditions 20-25* and below. TO ME, the trade offs in wt and bulk are minimal and afford less of a hassle under those temps. When it gets that cold a integrated hood becomes more functional so the function outweighs the wt savings. Also, IMO, you can't afford drafts or losing thermal efficiency when it gets that cold. Unless I learn something fast that I've been missing I'm quickly coming to the opinion that I'll save quilts for temps above 25-30* and stick with the highest end down sleeping bags for colder temps which means I now have a 20* quilt and would rather have a 20* sleeping bag. Hence, more do re mi.

its a vicious circle isnt it.
thank you dogwood for your insight.
i really dont mind spending the money if i can justify the advantages, but so far, i remain unsold.
like i said, im going to try sleeping on my floor w/pad and quilt and see how i do for a few nights.

Capt Nat
02-25-2013, 19:57
Quilts are to sleeping what smart phones are to the party line. Get on board or get out of the way!!!! Dinosaurs didn't adapt and look what happened to them!

MuddyWaters
02-25-2013, 20:11
Another thing I've noticed that even if you are purchasing the highest end down quilts and comparing that with the highest end down sleeping bags there really isn't that much of a wt(maybe 3-4 oz) or bulk saving(NEGLIGLIBLE!) issue.
.

1/4 lb isnt necessarily negligible, it might be 5-10% of what some folks are carrying as a base wt.
Without a hipbelt, every ounce off your shoulders improves comfort somewhat

Slo-go'en
02-25-2013, 20:25
I think quilts make the most sense if your a hammocker, but for a ground dweller like me, I'll stick to a bag. I can use a bag like a quilt, but I can't use a quilt like a bag. I also didn't see enough weight/bulk/cost difference to make a quilt win over a bag. I really wanted to justify buying a quilt, but I just couldn't do it.

scope
02-25-2013, 20:53
I don't often sleep on the ground, but when I do, I prefer a quilt with a downmat.

Dogwood nailed it. A quilt is technical gear, but there's no reason it couldn't work for you if you want to make it work.

I will say this, the last thing I want to do in the summer is climb into a sleeping bag. And especially one with a half zipper - now there's a waste right there.

hikerboy57
02-25-2013, 21:09
Quilts are to sleeping what smart phones are to the party line. Get on board or get out of the way!!!! Dinosaurs didn't adapt and look what happened to them!
i dont do facebook either

Old Hiker
02-25-2013, 21:44
Quilts are to sleeping what smart phones are to the party line. Get on board or get out of the way!!!! Dinosaurs didn't adapt and look what happened to them!

Dinosaurs had adapted extremely well, thank you very much. It took 5 (five) meteorite strikes to allow you mousy mammals time to actually evolve from the egg-stealing rodents you were. Otherwise, you would still be egg-sucking vermin.

Thanks all the same - I'm a nomophobe and proud of it.

Kookork
02-25-2013, 22:19
It's expensive beaning cool!
I have the Thermarest Alpine Blanket, snaps to the air mattress, works great!

Therma rest Alpine was one of my considerations but not so good reviews changed my view. They all complain that due to horizontal baffles the down shifts to the sides as the time passes during every night. It has been a universal complaint and I am wondering did you have the same problem with it?

4Bears
02-25-2013, 23:19
Quilts are to sleeping what smart phones are to the party line. Get on board or get out of the way!!!! Dinosaurs didn't adapt and look what happened to them!

I didn't know adapting in the hiking world was a requirement, there are those who go ultra/uber light and others who don't, albeit fewer numbers these days. Where one may prefer a quilt the next may like a bag, for me since I use my current bag as a quilt I will replace it with a quilt at some point. Others may back sleep and not move much at night and a bag may be more comfortable for them. The bottom line is comfort, both in mind and physical, it is not a one size fits all world, that is why there are now and always will be choices.

hikerboy57
02-25-2013, 23:23
I don't often sleep on the ground, but when I do, I prefer a quilt with a downmat.

Dogwood nailed it. A quilt is technical gear, but there's no reason it couldn't work for you if you want to make it work.

I will say this, the last thing I want to do in the summer is climb into a sleeping bag. And especially one with a half zipper - now there's a waste right there.

im very wasteful.

Fur Queue
02-25-2013, 23:44
Going back to the original question, the advantage of a quilt for me is quite substantial...I've started from scratch, owned no serious gear at all and have to get two of everything...the quilt offers an unbeatable weight and dollar saving for us both...

prain4u
02-26-2013, 00:18
Yes, a quilt can sometimes be of similar weight as a sleeping bag. Thus, not always a weight savings. However, because most of the down/fill that is underneath you in a sleeping bag is crushed (and only provides minimal insulation value) having the same weight quilt--means that more of the fill is located on your top and sides--usually meaning more warmth for the same weight.

Gray Blazer
02-26-2013, 08:37
I went camping with some HHForums guys last weekend. They were really cool and helpful and did not look down their noses at me (even though I gave them every opportunity). Chief Duffy may have started a thread on this recently. He told me those Japanese knock off Down Jackets were on sale for $14 at JCPennys. He bought a few extra large ones and made a coupla down quilts that he and his wife slept comfortably to 29 degrees. If I remember, I'm going to Penny's today and pick up a couple jackets if they haven't run out.

Capt Nat
02-26-2013, 08:42
Do you folks WANT to get hit by a meteorite????

Gray Blazer
02-26-2013, 08:45
Do you folks WANT to get hit by a meteorite????

I may have been already. How would I know?

Starchild
02-26-2013, 08:48
Dinosaurs had adapted extremely well, thank you very much. It took 5 (five) meteorite strikes to allow you mousy mammals time to actually evolve from the egg-stealing rodents you were. Otherwise, you would still be egg-sucking vermin.

Thanks all the same - I'm a nomophobe and proud of it.

Not to mention the dinosaurs evolved into birds and many fly the equivalent of the AT in seasonal migrations yearly in both directions, while we still walk it, taking months preparing for it, and years getting to the point to do it, who is really the more advanced one?

Hairbear
02-26-2013, 08:49
I went camping with some HHForums guys last weekend. They were really cool and helpful and did not look down their noses at me (even though I gave them every opportunity). Chief Duffy may have started a thread on this recently. He told me those Japanese knock off Down Jackets were on sale for $14 at JCPennys. He bought a few extra large ones and made a coupla down quilts that he and his wife slept comfortably to 29 degrees. If I remember, I'm going to Penny's today and pick up a couple jackets if they haven't run out.
Better hurry there arnt many left,I saw a few on the a 8 dollar clearance rack two days ago. My plans are to make a top quilt that can be worn in a overalls type aplication. Might have 40 bucks in the whole thing.

HikerMom58
02-26-2013, 10:04
http://alittlecampy.com/files/2013/01/Doppel-Gangers-Wearable-Sleeping-Bag.jpg
We’ve seen several wearable sleeping bags in the outdoor market recently. Most of them are pretty laughable. In fact, they usually remind me of Gumby® or the Stay Puff Marshmallow Man.


But now Doppelganger Outdoors has released a wearable sleeping bag that is almost cute. It seems to be geared towards women because you can wear it as a skirt combo. In fact, you can wear this sleeping bag as a jacket, a jacket with skirt attached or zip on the last portion for a complete sleeping bag. Ready for bed? Attach the last section and you are ready to go. This is a case where camping fashion and camping essentials cross paths.

It comes in purple too!!!!:D

ChinMusic
02-26-2013, 10:29
We’ve seen several wearable sleeping bags in the outdoor market recently. Most of them are pretty laughable. In fact, they usually remind me of Gumby® or the Stay Puff Marshmallow Man.

That thing is actually kinda my strategy, but not one piece like that. I have a robust down parka and a lighter bag. If cold I wear the parka to bed. It works great. I can use my 30° bag down to 20 with comfort.

I still tend to use the bag as a quilt and only zip it up when really cold. I find that quilt-mode loses too much warm air as I move around.

Odd Man Out
02-26-2013, 12:00
Not to mention the dinosaurs evolved into birds and many fly the equivalent of the AT in seasonal migrations yearly in both directions, while we still walk it, taking months preparing for it, and years getting to the point to do it, who is really the more advanced one?

Good point, although technically, dinosaurs did not evolve INTO birds just as mammals did not evolve into humans. Birds ARE dinosaurs just as humans are mammals.

scope
02-26-2013, 12:48
http://alittlecampy.com/files/2013/01/Doppel-Gangers-Wearable-Sleeping-Bag.jpg
We’ve seen several wearable sleeping bags in the outdoor market recently. Most of them are pretty laughable. In fact, they usually remind me of Gumby® or the Stay Puff Marshmallow Man.[/COLOR]:D

Yeah, I look like a tool in my Exped Dreamwalker... a very warm tool.

Dogwood
02-26-2013, 12:53
1/4 lb isnt necessarily negligible, it might be 5-10% of what some folks are carrying as a base wt.
Without a hipbelt, every ounce off your shoulders improves comfort somewhat

I understand where you are coming from MW(I'm an ULer) but REALLY, think about this, does a difference in 4 oz in your base wt make a significant difference in your hiking abilities? I would say ABSOLUTELY not! And remember I'm an ULer. And, yes, I know ozs add up to a lb, etc. Believe me, I know how ULers tend to think and design gear. What I'm saying is that quilts basically come from an UL mindset and are designed with an UL wt shaving mindset. If you are not saving wt by choosing a quilt over a sleeping bag I begin questioning why you would opt for a quilt. So I'm getting to the pt where I might only use a quilt in say 25* + because that's when factors like quilts being less confining, better venting, etc. come into greater play, IMO. MW your 4 oz wt savings are a GREAT pt for someone newly transitioning from an overall heavier wt kit or significantly heavier wt bulkier sleeping bag but for those, like myself, who already have an UL sub 8 lb 3 season kit, the wt and bulk difference is even less substantial. Being an ULer DOES NOT necessarily automatically assume I'm going with the lightest wt gear option everytime. Basing gear or kit decisions by prioritizing the wt of that gear or kit over all other considerations possibly leads to "stupid light" decisions. I've done that too many times attempting to shave a few more ozs. I basically got off that UL merry go round that had me clamoring for the latest greatest UL a wee bit lighter piece of gear. I ocassionaly still fall victim to it though. LOL. I would be hard pressed to squeeze another 1 1/2 lb from my entire 3 season thru-hiking kit at this stage in my hiking.

BTW, since my kit wt has become lighter and my body has become stronger due to the rigors of backpacking long distances even with up to a 25 lb loaded pack I sometimes hike for some of the day without having my ULA CDT(Conduit) hipbelt buckled so all the wt is on my shoulders. This lets me vent better and offers a change of pace and makes my upper body even stronger and more comfortable without the need for my hipbelt being used all the time. I do use my sternum strap when going without the hibelt though. This isn't something I would recommend for the majority of hikers though. I also tend to keep the center of gravity in my loaded pack low to prevent a top heavy pack when doing this.


Yes, a quilt can sometimes be of similar weight as a sleeping bag. Thus, not always a weight savings. However, because most of the down/fill that is underneath you in a sleeping bag is crushed (and only provides minimal insulation value) having the same weight quilt--means that more of the fill is located on your top and sides--usually meaning more warmth for the same weight.

I think you pointed to the general idea of a quilt at the beginning of this statement Prain4u. In real world use this may not necessarily be so. Be careful with this bit!"...usually meaning more warmth for the same weight." This isn't necessarily so if you don't couple the appropriate quilt with the appropriate pad for the conditions or if you are constantly losing thermal efficiency because of drafts.

Although it has been said countless times every piece of gear, possibly even more so and more important with UL gear, has pros and cons. There are things to consider that those who look to jump on the UL merry go round fail to consider in real world use. Again, I'm not debating the benefits of UL I'm just saying think it through before you jump or, perhaps, you'll need another room added on to the house to store all that extra unused hiking gear that you thought would be such a great addition to your kit when you laid down the do re mi.

gizzy bear
02-26-2013, 19:33
What about a snuggie... Other than being extremely flammable ... You can still support your favorite sports team while you sleep in the middle of nowhere...

leaftye
02-26-2013, 19:43
http://alittlecampy.com/files/2013/01/Doppel-Gangers-Wearable-Sleeping-Bag.jpg
We’ve seen several wearable sleeping bags in the outdoor market recently. Most of them are pretty laughable. In fact, they usually remind me of Gumby® or the Stay Puff Marshmallow Man.


But now Doppelganger Outdoors has released a wearable sleeping bag that is almost cute. It seems to be geared towards women because you can wear it as a skirt combo. In fact, you can wear this sleeping bag as a jacket, a jacket with skirt attached or zip on the last portion for a complete sleeping bag. Ready for bed? Attach the last section and you are ready to go. This is a case where camping fashion and camping essentials cross paths.

It comes in purple too!!!!:D

Jackrbetter does make a wearable quilt.

The Ace
02-26-2013, 23:03
This is the most informative thread on quilts that I have read (well, leaving out the dinosaurs and Gumby), and the video that HikerMomKD attached finally enabled me to understand how to cinch a quilt around your shoulders. Sometimes one fails to comprehend the obvious. Does anyone have any experience with the cuben fiber lined down quilts? Are they made with breathtable or nonbreathable cuben fiber? Do they get clammy? Does the down retain moisture? Are the temperature ratings accurate? Are they ligher because of the cuben fiber materail or do they contain less down?

MuddyWaters
02-26-2013, 23:23
This is the most informative thread on quilts that I have read (well, leaving out the dinosaurs and Gumby), and the video that HikerMomKD attached finally enabled me to understand how to cinch a quilt around your shoulders. Sometimes one fails to comprehend the obvious. Does anyone have any experience with the cuben fiber lined down quilts? Are they made with breathtable or nonbreathable cuben fiber? Do they get clammy? Does the down retain moisture? Are the temperature ratings accurate? Are they ligher because of the cuben fiber materail or do they contain less down?

I dont have any personal experience with the cuben quilt , but considered it.
Only previously made by EE as a stock item I think, others may have provided on on a custom basis.
They are made with impermeable cuben to be moisture resistant.
Basically, they are also mostly airtight, so they wont loft without filling the quilt with air thru a vent tube.
This prevents loss of loft due to body moisture condensing in the fill in cold weather. The only other way to avoid loss of loft on a prolonged trip is thru use of a vapor barrier.
Yes they are clammy obviously if you have to snug up tight in cold conditions.
No reason for temp rating not to be accurate.
They are lighter because of the cuben weight. Just throwing rough #s out here based on memory, but say a 40 F quilt that has ~8oz fill weighs ~ 17oz in 30d (1.1oz/yd) , and 14 oz in 10d (0.65 oz/yd) , might weigh 12.5 oz in 0.51 cuben (0.51 oz/yd) and even less in 0.3 cuben, possibly 11 oz .
It can be a substantial enough difference, to put up with the clamminess for some.

gizzy bear
02-27-2013, 12:31
http://alittlecampy.com/files/2013/01/Doppel-Gangers-Wearable-Sleeping-Bag.jpg
We’ve seen several wearable sleeping bags in the outdoor market recently. Most of them are pretty laughable. In fact, they usually remind me of Gumby® or the Stay Puff Marshmallow Man.


But now Doppelganger Outdoors has released a wearable sleeping bag that is almost cute. It seems to be geared towards women because you can wear it as a skirt combo. In fact, you can wear this sleeping bag as a jacket, a jacket with skirt attached or zip on the last portion for a complete sleeping bag. Ready for bed? Attach the last section and you are ready to go. This is a case where camping fashion and camping essentials cross paths.

It comes in purple too!!!!:D

i couldn't see this on my phone last night...but now that i can actually see it, this is OBVIOUSLY for the narcoleptic/ambien hiker....where one is walking along and just goes all stiffy goat and passes out(look it up they are hysterical) and just hope some kind soul will come zip on their bottom half...
i bet the bermuda short version is equally as attractive.

HikerMom58
02-27-2013, 12:37
i couldn't see this on my phone last night...but now that i can actually see it, this is OBVIOUSLY for the narcoleptic/ambien hiker....where one is walking along and just goes all stiffy goat and passes out(look it up they are hysterical) and just hope some kind soul will come zip on their bottom half...
i bet the bermuda short version is equally as attractive.

I can't stop laughing at ur comment gizzy... Oh gosh! Are you sure you don't want it to take the HMW? I like the concept. I think they are on 2 something but this one?-not so much! Ha Ha!!:clap I don't think it's very warm.. this one! :)

Rain Man
02-27-2013, 12:50
I apologize if this has been said already, but in a sleeping bag, if I roll on my side, my knees and butt press against opposite sides of the bag. If the bag contorts at all (which it does), that crushes the down similar to laying on it. Result is that my knees and butt get cold. With a quilt there is less contortion of shape. My knees might press out one side, and my butt the other, but it has more "give" and thus maintains its loft better.

At least, that's my opinion. :D

Rain Man

.

gizzy bear
02-27-2013, 15:25
I can't stop laughing at ur comment gizzy... Oh gosh! Are you sure you don't want it to take the HMW? I like the concept. I think they are on 2 something but this one?-not so much! Ha Ha!!:clap I don't think it's very warm.. this one! :)

hehehe!! i couldn't quit giggling at those pics...thanks for sharing :D ...those silleh chinese ... i bet all the pants would be highwaters and the popular colors are red with orange :P

Prime Time
02-27-2013, 16:51
Does anyone have experience with Jacks R Better quilts? I'm specifically looking at the Shenandoah 45 degree quilt for between Mt. Rogers and the Whites.

The Ace
02-27-2013, 21:52
I dont have any personal experience with the cuben quilt , but considered it.
Only previously made by EE as a stock item I think, others may have provided on on a custom basis.
They are made with impermeable cuben to be moisture resistant.
Basically, they are also mostly airtight, so they wont loft without filling the quilt with air thru a vent tube.
This prevents loss of loft due to body moisture condensing in the fill in cold weather. The only other way to avoid loss of loft on a prolonged trip is thru use of a vapor barrier.
Yes they are clammy obviously if you have to snug up tight in cold conditions.
No reason for temp rating not to be accurate.
They are lighter because of the cuben weight. Just throwing rough #s out here based on memory, but say a 40 F quilt that has ~8oz fill weighs ~ 17oz in 30d (1.1oz/yd) , and 14 oz in 10d (0.65 oz/yd) , might weigh 12.5 oz in 0.51 cuben (0.51 oz/yd) and even less in 0.3 cuben, possibly 11 oz .
It can be a substantial enough difference, to put up with the clamminess for some.

Thanks. Sounds like this is better for a lower humidity environment than that of the Appalachians.

MuddyWaters
02-27-2013, 22:34
Thanks. Sounds like this is better for a lower humidity environment than that of the Appalachians.

On the contrary, high humidity and cold conditions is where it will excel.
It will just be clammy. Nothing wrong with warm and clammy.
That is better, than a wet, de-lofted bag after several days of 35F rain, which breatheable fabric encased down will experience.

As an aside, another good benefits of quilts, is if you use a separate down hood in cold temps, it turns with your head when you twist your neck to side, unlike a sleeping bag where your face tends to move off of the opening.

The Ace
02-27-2013, 22:54
On the contrary, high humidity and cold conditions is where it will excel.
It will just be clammy. Nothing wrong with warm and clammy.
That is better, than a wet, de-lofted bag after several days of 35F rain, which breatheable fabric encased down will experience.

As an aside, another good benefits of quilts, is if you use a separate down hood in cold temps, it turns with your head when you twist your neck to side, unlike a sleeping bag where your face tends to move off of the opening.

So, the trade-off with a cuben fiber lining is that it protects the down from moisture, but keeps it trapped around or on my body?

MuddyWaters
02-27-2013, 23:02
So, the trade-off with a cuben fiber lining is that it protects the down from moisture, but keeps it trapped around or on my body?

Yes. Same thing a vapor barrier liner would do, or vapor barrier clothing.
Below about freezing, the dewpoint typically is inside the fill (bag surface is very cold), and body moisture otherwise condenses in the fill.
After a few nights of that, a bag is substantially less lofty and colder than it was in dry condition.
This can also happen in any really humid and cool (cool and rainy) condition.

When using VBL , you usually only wear a very light thin baselayer. helps keep you comfortable, but doesnt get all your clothing moist. When you wear VB clothing (silnylon suit ), you can wear your clothing over it for extra warmth, because the clamminess will be inside. Getting out of a VBL, with damp baselayer on a cold morning will freeze you pretty darn fast if not careful. Small price to pay to keep insulation intact.

Kookork
02-28-2013, 00:01
To Sum Up the pros and cons of quilt Vs Sleeping bag

Pros:
Cheaper
Lighter
Shines in warmer nights
less claustrophobic
No zip jam or noise

Cons:
Needs a more reliable sleeping pad
slower learning curve to use
Not the best in extreme conditions

Ps: According to one post if the dinosaurs were using quilt they were still roaming around :) . Right?

Are you convinced Hikerboy now ? Extinction is around the corner if not.

scope
02-28-2013, 00:20
Does anyone have experience with Jacks R Better quilts? I'm specifically looking at the Shenandoah 45 degree quilt for between Mt. Rogers and the Whites.

Their stuff is top notch. There are other very good mfrs, none better.

MuddyWaters
02-28-2013, 20:15
Does anyone have experience with Jacks R Better quilts? I'm specifically looking at the Shenandoah 45 degree quilt for between Mt. Rogers and the Whites.

Theres a bunch of good mfgs that are all top notch.
Most of them will do you a custom job too, whatever you want if you have the wait time.
Some work with different fabrics than others, that may be important to you.
You should know if you want pertex, M50, 30D, 10D, etc.
Also know what type baffles, baffle spacing, loft, amt fill, etc.

If you are in a hurry, it may come down to stock items, stock width, stock features, and stock price.

If not, you will probably be happy with a custom item from most of them. JRB has a good reputation.

Prime Time
02-28-2013, 23:38
Theres a bunch of good mfgs that are all top notch.
Most of them will do you a custom job too, whatever you want if you have the wait time.
Some work with different fabrics than others, that may be important to you.
You should know if you want pertex, M50, 30D, 10D, etc.
Also know what type baffles, baffle spacing, loft, amt fill, etc.
If you are in a hurry, it may come down to stock items, stock width, stock features, and stock price.

If not, you will probably be happy with a custom item from most of them. JRB has a good reputation.
Thanks MuddyWaters. This is good info that gives me a good idea what I need to study up on and decide.

The Ace
03-01-2013, 09:42
Thanks MuddyWaters. This is good info that gives me a good idea what I need to study up on and decide.

Another good source that I found (in addition to here) is the Outdoor Gear Lab Review of bags and quilts. They seem to have a bias for quilts, but they provide a lot info. Here is the link:

http://www.outdoorgearlab.com/Backpacking-Sleeping-Bag-Reviews

Sly
03-01-2013, 09:49
I've used my sleeping bag as a quilt on many occasions simply by unzipping it and throwing it over me and it's worked fine. If I had a sewing machine and sewing skills I'd try modifying an old bag but have neither.

Tipi Walter
03-01-2013, 10:06
Sleeping pad, same as you do in your bag. With a bag though, the the insulation you're laying on gets compressed, effectively rendering it useless.

This is the standard myth kept alive over and over again. In reality, for me at least, a zipped up mummy bag needs full coverage because I toss and turn all night, so what was under me 20 minutes ago is now on my side or on top, etc. So, in effect, the bottom insulation is not "useless" since it doesn't stay on the bottom for long.


the bottom of the bag gives you little in the way of insulation as you lay on it -its added weight from this perspective compared to a top quilt

See above.


well in my case its not really true. i have a wm highlite mummy style as im a side sleeper and the bag just moves with me when i turn in my sleep, so im compressing different down at different times. i do understand the compression on the bottom. my winter bag is a BA lost ranger, their bags are designed with a sleeve for your pad and all the down on top, on the same principles as youre describing.im not sure i would be comfortable sleeping directly on my pad.
i need you to convince me so i can justify throwing away $1200 worth of sleeping bags and blow some more money on quilts!!

"The bag just moves with me" about says it all.


but i still have the same pad insulation as you do. the bag stays wrapped around me as i turn in my sleep.not so sure the same can be said for the quilt. those nights its that hot, i sleep on top of my bag anyway

Yup, the zipped up bag is full enclosure with full protection from cold spots, the bane of quilts.


unzip your bag all the way. Turn it until opening is on the bottom. You will be able to see what its like to use a top quilt. Just imagine the extra material on the sides being gone making it lighter.

This is exactly what I do most of the time. On my last two winter trips (36 days) in Jan/Feb I didn't once zip up my overkill WM Puma down bag and instead used it as a quilt. One night it got down to 15F and I almost zipped it up. See, that's the point---I had the option, the all-important option, of zipping up if the temps reached 10F or 0F or below. No quilt can do this.


I select a sleeping bag that will unzip all the way to the feet, having a small foot box. My prefered method is to leave the sleeping bag unzipped in this fashion, basically turning the bag into a quilt.

For nights where it is cold I like the option of zipping it all the way up.

In this way I feel I get the best of both worlds.

Exactly right. I enjoy sleeping under my bag like a quilt most of the time and then mummy up when temps go south.


I think quilts make the most sense if your a hammocker, but for a ground dweller like me, I'll stick to a bag. I can use a bag like a quilt, but I can't use a quilt like a bag. I also didn't see enough weight/bulk/cost difference to make a quilt win over a bag. I really wanted to justify buying a quilt, but I just couldn't do it.

A bag offers more protection options in tough conditions.


I've used my sleeping bag as a quilt on many occasions simply by unzipping it and throwing it over me and it's worked fine. If I had a sewing machine and sewing skills I'd try modifying an old bag but have neither.

Exactly again. Really, the question of A Quilt is the question of trip temperatures and how cold it will get. Anybody can use a quilt in the 3 seasons, but if the conversation is about winter camping in winter conditions with 10F or below, even -10F, very few people I know would discard their standard zippered mummy bag and go with a quilt.

scope
03-01-2013, 12:01
Not a myth, but there is truth in what you say about rolling around. In theory at least, you should be able to stay warmer with a quilt by having the pad and quilt stay where they are while you roll around inside, making for no cold spots in your insulation as you would have on the section of a bag you were just laying on. Your body heat is required to heat those sections up again as they expand in order to be insulative again.

That said, its about being able to manage your rolling around in semi-conscious state, and that's where a bag assists in keeping warm air around you while sections of it are going through the process of being compressed and uncompressed. Its easy with a quilt to mess up during the night and let cold air in. Its also not that hard to manage it well and reap the benefits of using a quilt. As always, different strokes, and HYOH.

Of course, you could just get a hammock and nix the whole rolling around thing. Sorry, couldn't help myself. ;)

Mags
03-01-2013, 13:47
Exactly again. Really, the question of A Quilt is the question of trip temperatures and how cold it will get. Anybody can use a quilt in the 3 seasons, but if the conversation is about winter camping in winter conditions with 10F or below, even -10F, very few people I know would discard their standard zippered mummy bag and go with a quilt.

Wow..I actually I agree with TW. :) (Truth be told, I suspect he and I probably agree on more than things than disagree :) )

I have started enjoying a quilt for three-season backpacking...don't think I personally could use one for winter.

Then again, some people love them for winter. http://www.rayjardine.com/adventures/2006-SouthPole/index.htm


I just don't think I'll be one of them! :D

MuddyWaters
03-01-2013, 21:37
I think, if you use a quilt in deep winter, it ought to be much lower rated than you need, and then the drafts wont matter as much to your overall comfort.

I personally have found any bag insulation under me to be not needed for warmth, the pad does do it all basically.

Rolling with the bag, puts you off to the side of where you were laying on your back, basically off your pad. If you want to get back in the middle of your pad, you are going to have to fidget and schooch back to center. Trying to stay in one spot and roll over in a bag, kind of wraps and tangles you up in it.
A quilt is superior for shifting from back to side to me for that reason.

leaftye
03-01-2013, 21:54
Does anyone have any experience with the cuben fiber lined down quilts? Are they made with breathtable or nonbreathable cuben fiber? Do they get clammy? Does the down retain moisture? Are the temperature ratings accurate? Are they ligher because of the cuben fiber materail or do they contain less down?

I have a nonbreathable cuben fiber quilt.

I've only felt wet inside when it's been incredibly humid, like in fog banks. When adjusted for temperature and vented occasionally, moisture is usually quite mild, and it's gone after a few minutes on the trail.

The down does not retain moisture because it doesn't get wet. My particular quilt has a strip of breathable fabric on the upper layer. At the time it was thought that it would be needed for the quilt to get air to loft and compress. That fabric is DWR treated like any good quilt or sleeping bag, so any moisture that gets on the quilt from above shouldn't get the down wet. Even if that somehow happened, I bet it would dry out very quickly. Body heat with a vapor barrier can dry out insulation very well.

I've used my 0°F cuben fiber quilt to 17°F and was nice and warm. I only wore my normal hiking clothes, that is, boxer briefs, nylon pants and shirt, and liner socks. I wore an insulated hat, but that's standard practice in cooler temperatures with a quilt. I can't remember if I used my Rayway hat or down balaclava. Fwiw, I don't think EE was overstuffing quilts back then. I have the specs on my quilt if you want them.

They are lighter when cuben fiber fabric is used. The vapor barrier effect is not factored into the temperature rating, and thus it has the same amount of down as a quilt with breathable nylon fabric.

leaftye
03-01-2013, 22:11
On the contrary, high humidity and cold conditions is where it will excel.
It will just be clammy. Nothing wrong with warm and clammy.
That is better, than a wet, de-lofted bag after several days of 35F rain, which breatheable fabric encased down will experience.

This is what's great about vapor barriers. That is, the insulation is just as good in the morning as it was in the evening.

Another bonus with a cuben fiber quilt is that it doesn't get dirty and stinky. Cleaning simply requires wiping the fabric.


This is the standard myth kept alive over and over again. In reality, for me at least, a zipped up mummy bag needs full coverage because I toss and turn all night, so what was under me 20 minutes ago is now on my side or on top, etc. So, in effect, the bottom insulation is not "useless" since it doesn't stay on the bottom for long.

I toss and turn all night under my quilts too. I frequently turn from my side, to stomach to the other side. If I can't sleep, I'll turn on my back. My quilts always stay on top where they belong. Some people find this easier to manage with straps going under their quilt, but I've never done that. I stay warm.

The problem with the sleeping bag is the hood. It requires you to turn the entire sleeping bag, so insulation all over is mandatory. There are some hoodless bags, but the vast majority of them are better suited for mild weather car camping.

I can't remember the name now, but a couple decades ago there was an inflatable pad/bag/bivy. It was all one piece, and inherently had a vapor barrier. As I recall, it didn't have a hood, which made it a little more comfortable for the user could flop around without twisting the bag...a separate balaclava would be used like I do with my quilt.

I would like to see something like that product again. It wouldn't quite be a bag or a quilt. It would be vaguely resemble the BA system, but without redundant fabric, weight or hood.