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Andrew Ferk
02-25-2013, 22:11
Hi everyone,

I'm looking for some life experience :)

I've been working in a career I love for five years after graduating with my Bachelor's. While I like my career and my industry (software engineering), my work experience hasn't been on-par of what I strive for in life (greatness). I decided to join a Master's program, and full time work + school has been rough, but quite rewarding. I'll be graduating in May and I'm ready for a new challenge, a.k.a, the Appalachian Trail. This idea came up in the bar, after class, as another student was telling me about his experience with the trail. I went home, did some research, and became committed to the idea.

The Appalachian Trail has a few purposes for me:

Physical challenge - I'm in good shape, but 2080 miles of good shape? I suppose I'll find out.
Mental challenge - As a young adult, I always had the idea of living in my grandpa's dome, in the woods, away from everyone else... all alone. I think going SOBO will give me plenty of alone time :) also, as I've grown older, I've become more extroverted, so I no longer want to live alone, but I still would like to see how much alone time I can handle.
EXIT the Rat Race - Go to school, get a job, get a car, get a house, get a girl (still work on this one ;), etc. I never really had a plan, other than to always move forward and aim high. I've become consumed by money and material things. Funny thing is, it kills me, because independence and autonomy are what make me happy. Instead I'm being drowned by the need for advancing my career, status, bank account, etc. So, yeah, the AT may be a quick exit.


But how should I handle this? I have an idea called "the purge". This involves:

Quitting my job - Done: done, I took a 3-month contract job to fill the void to June/July
End my lease - Done: the landlord is ready to amend the contract end date to June 30th
Pay off credit card debt - Done: I just paid it all off today
Selling my car - I made a good downpayment on a 2012 Subaru Legacy in 2011. If I sold the car today, I would be able to pay off the remainder and have about $2k extra.
Furniture - Yeah, I've accumulated a bunch of ****... 50" TV, couch, recliner, king size bed, bookcase, large computer desk, etc. Sell it all. Except maybe the king size bed, when I start life again, I think I would like to start with a king size bed :)
Cancel services - Cable, cell phone, Netflix, Hulu, gym membership, etc.


What does this leave me with? On the positive side, I still have my Roth and small investment account, five years of experience and a Master's in a booming industry. On the downside, I'm pretty much have no assets, $200/month in health insurance, and a $40k student loan i need to start paying off when I get done.

I laid it out. Any life experience would be appreciated here. I'm getting a little nervous about selling the car. I actually want to start using the bus for a 45 days, and once I got that down, sell the car. I have no problem biking once the weather gets better. Once I sell the car, I need to sell the TV and cancel the cabel/internet :/ But the trail... it's going to be awesome. I hope :)

Thanks,
Andrew

hikerboy57
02-25-2013, 22:30
i think its a great idea.sounds like you could use the break to get some fresh perspective on how little you really need to be happy. you can sell all your stuff.its just stuff. you can buy more stuff after you return. youre young enough to take a shot, and you sound like you shouldnt have a problem finding work when you return.
go for it.
a simple life is a better life

HikerMom58
02-25-2013, 22:49
Andrew.. you sound like so many other people that have been bitten by the "AT bug" and :welcometo WB...

You are feeling the weight of the $$$ that you are going to have to pay back. :eek: You are only 26 year old, just starting out. I don't agree with the system that put you there, at all. It's nuts! I can see you wanting to do something FUN for a while.

It will be interesting to see what others think or advise... that's all I got for ya.

10-K
02-25-2013, 22:50
Try not to touch your ROTH and your other investments if you can help it.

You're looking at 2014 to do a thru hike?

bessiebreeze
02-25-2013, 23:02
Hi Andrew -

You didn't say if you had any backpacking or camping experience. I think that before you sell all your furniture, and your car, that you go on several weekend backpacking trips. There is probably an outfitter in St. Louis that will rent you some equipment. Try to get somewhat of a feel for this big hike you are undertaking. And start doing all the planning that is necessary for this hike. It ain't necessarily an easy endeavor to undertake. Too many people think that hiking the AT sounds really great, but don't ever get out of Georgia.

Good luck!

bfayer
02-25-2013, 23:04
If you are talking June 30th, I hope you are talking southbound?

Andrew Ferk
02-25-2013, 23:41
Hi everyone,

Sorry for lack of some details. I am planning to leave late June or early July, and will be travelling southbound. I think the first weekend of July would be great. I have little to no experience backpacking or hiking, but I am planning to get two 5-day trips in before the AT. I'm big into strategizing, so I expect I will have a good plan and understanding of the trip heading into June.

@bessiebreeze - If any part of the AT was associated with easy, it wouldn't be a option :)

@10-K - I won't be touching my roth until retirement :)

You guys are awesome.

Thanks,
Andrew

capehiker
02-25-2013, 23:49
Sounds like you have a plan. This is the time to thru hike. You have age, education and a point in life that this experience will only enhance your future. For those of us who have to wait another year or two to hike, please go out and seize this opportunity.

weary
02-26-2013, 00:08
Before you sell anything, spend at least two weeks on a rough trail, preferably in bad weather. You don't need much equipment. Wear the stuff you own. Pick up a pack and sleeping bag at Goodwill or the Salvation Army, and if you need it a warm jacket. Too many dreamers quit after a week or two of reality. The most common reaction of first time AT hikers with minimum experience is Surprise! It's not going to be as you dreamed it would be.

Prime Time
02-26-2013, 00:19
It looks like you've thought this out well and the timing looks great. You've got time to start getting your gear together and the sooner you get your shakedown hikes in the better. Borrow or rent gear before you buy it if at all possible. If your in a position to do some hiking training as well as the shakedown hikes, that would be good, but if your in good shape you'll be fine either way. As you jump into the detail planning of your hike, don't hesitate to ask specific questions here on WB. It's a great resource from people with a lot of experience.

I'm excited for you and wish you luck with your planned hike and your life after it!

Slo-go'en
02-26-2013, 02:13
Since you have already gone half way, I'd suggest getting rid of everything which can be easily replaced. Only keep that which has significant sedimental value and can store with a trusted friend or familly member. I learned the hard way that storage fees can add up to more then what the contents are worth in a hurry.

It's possible your adventure of a life time will only last a week. It happens all the time. In some cases only a day. Or it will take you on a completely different path for the rest of your life. Only time will tell...

Coffee Rules!
02-26-2013, 05:37
i think its a great idea.sounds like you could use the break to get some fresh perspective on how little you really need to be happy. you can sell all your stuff.its just stuff. you can buy more stuff after you return. youre young enough to take a shot, and you sound like you shouldnt have a problem finding work when you return.
go for it.
a simple life is a better life

I don't think it could be said better.

10-K
02-26-2013, 07:16
Another idea would be to put your stuff in storage while you're gone so you'd have it when you got back. Storage costs money but it would be convenient not to have to go buy all that stuff again.

Glad to hear you're not touching the ROTH. If there is any way possible make 2012/2013 contributions to the max allowed. You will be glad you did one day.

Also, if you have a 401-K at your current employer, roll it over into an IRA with a mutual fund family with low fees (Vanguard would be my pick). Leaving money in a 401-K that you're no longer contributing to is a bad idea because of all the fees. (unless you're a government employee with access to the TSP plan, then leave it)

Live in the present - that's a great way to think - but prepare for the future.

JAK
02-26-2013, 08:54
Before I say anything else, I wanna say No matter what you’ve done you deserve respect, even if you make mistakes, you lovable. Doesn’t matter your looks, skills, or age or size or anything. Your worthwhile. No one can ever take that away from you.

Capt Nat
02-26-2013, 09:02
Because of 2 divorces, I've had to start mostly from scratch twice, the second time in my mid 40's. At your age, you can begin again and completely salvage your life if you are industrious and motivated.

burrito
02-26-2013, 11:29
andrew, i recently quit a job of 22 years, sold most of my possesions, and gave up my home of ten years, all because i have a dream of hiking the at, my only regret is that didnt do it 3 years ago.
at this place in your life many people will advise you to work and save and buy loys of stuff to fill your life with joy,
, possesions can be a ball and chain that keep you from adventures that make folks like us feel alive,.
my advise is go for it, you are young enough that you can pick up when you get back,but having pursued your dream you will come home with a better sense of what is really meaningfull in life
, not just what we all have been taught defines a successfull life

58starter
02-26-2013, 11:54
Just go for it and have a great time. At 26 I had just finished a one year job in Iran and returned home with plenty of funds to do what I wanted for a year before I started my next career as a school teacher. I am now retired and 62 and will never be able to thru hike. I do do long section hikes and love it very much. Go for it and then come back and be whatever you want to be. If you pray it might be a good idea to pray about it first.

10-K
02-26-2013, 12:09
Ps.. My 21 year old son is in costs rica playing hippie this year.

I get it - just keep your eye on the big picture. Having a long range vision beyond today is important I think.

Fur Queue
02-26-2013, 12:41
In my twenties I jacked it all in and wandered around Europe and the Middle East for a couple of years...it still informs so much of what I do...even today (Im planning a big SOBO section hike for June/July)...ultimately it gave me the confidence to take big bold chances in life and even move here to the United States...my wife and I arrived here with two kids, two suitcases...and two thousand dollars...and we are still loving the journey! Go for it!

The Gambler
02-26-2013, 13:12
sobo'd in 2011..left katahdin on july 11th...great time to start as you'll miss most of the blackflies...they're a pain in the ass...got a resource for you...i met a nobo in 2011 that did exactly what you are doing..ironically works in the same industry as you & had zero camping or backpacking experience and wrote a book at it called appalachian trials....trail name was good badger...real name zack davis...he can be contacted at www.zachdavis.com (http://www.zachdavis.com) and on facebook at the good badger....he's a hell of a nice guy

The Gambler
02-26-2013, 13:14
i'd recommend his book for you too...very different than other AT books...and good luck

Hosaphone
02-26-2013, 13:18
Selling my car - I made a good downpayment on a 2012 Subaru Legacy in 2011. If I sold the car today, I would be able to pay off the remainder and have about $2k extra.


Next time buy a cheaper car, jeebus. You probably end up paying like $20k for a new car like that? That's like 1.5 years worth of living expenses down the drain. Think about it this way - you could have gotten a nice used car for $5k and retired a year earlier. When you factor in the interest you would accrue over the next 20-40 years if you had put that 20k into savings right away, it actually probably ends up being 2-3 years earlier that you could have retired.

Just because you make a lot of money and can afford a shiny car and a big apartment / $300,000 house, doesn't mean you should buy them.

The Gambler
02-26-2013, 13:32
sorry andrew i gave you the wrong link for zac...here ya go http://thegoodbadger.com/

The Gambler
02-26-2013, 13:34
here's another http://facebook.com/ZachDavis

garlic08
02-26-2013, 13:36
[/LIST]
...Just because you make a lot of money and can afford a shiny car and a big apartment / $300,000 house, doesn't mean you should buy them.

That's pretty much how my wife and I lived our professional lives--living below our means, saving like crazy. Paid off our small house in five years, shared a used car and never had a car loan, commuted by bicycle/bus, took hiking/biking vacations not cruises, cooked a lot instead of eating out, no cell phones or cable TV, etc. We retired when we were 40 and got out of the rat race permanently. If I could give some advice to the OP, I'd say stick it out in a career for 20 years, reduce your expenses like you're thinking about now, live on half your pay. That's delayed gratification, big time, and it's hard to do in your twenties, especially against peer pressure. But it can be done.

The Gambler
02-26-2013, 13:45
one more link andrew https://www.facebook.com/#!/theGoodBadger

chief
02-26-2013, 14:03
Andrew,

your motivation seems good
your "purge" should pay for your hike
your education plus experience will get you another job when you finish your hike

on the other hand, unless your ROTH and investment account are bigger than you let on, your 40k student loan means you're in a deficit situation. That's not a big deal if you get back to work shortly after your hike. When you do get back to work you might consider using your ROTH and other account to pay down some of that debt. It doesn't make much sense to me to contribute to "investment for your future" accounts with 40k in debt hanging over your head. Pay that off as quickly as possible and you're still plenty young enough to "pay the pig" for your future.

slbirdnerd
02-26-2013, 14:24
Do all your research: Read lots of threads on this website, read books by AT/thru hikers, look at gear lists, get maps and guidebooks, do your planning, etc., BUT, also get your gear and then go try it all out before hand, a couple training missions of sorts. Your gear could be expensive so budget for that. If you're serious, scrimp now so you can enjoy your journey. You'll need money for resupply, overnights/eating in town, replacing gear, etc.

You might like the book "The Things You Find on the Appalachian Trail" by Kevin Runolfson. Recently finished it, loved it. He did a thru in 2001 I think with his dog, he's very honest, real, it was entertaining and lots to learn.

Is it possible to put off starting your loan repayments for some period of time? You might check into that.

Fur Queue
02-26-2013, 14:26
That's pretty much how my wife and I lived our professional lives--living below our means, saving like crazy. Paid off our small house in five years, shared a used car and never had a car loan, commuted by bicycle/bus, took hiking/biking vacations not cruises, cooked a lot instead of eating out, no cell phones or cable TV, etc. We retired when we were 40 and got out of the rat race permanently. If I could give some advice to the OP, I'd say stick it out in a career for 20 years, reduce your expenses like you're thinking about now, live on half your pay. That's delayed gratification, big time, and it's hard to do in your twenties, especially against peer pressure. But it can be done.

This is great...and it is brilliant it worked out for you...but for many it doesn't...the mundane and the mediocrity of everyday existence stifles most people until most of them can no longer even conceive of an alternative existence...it would, however, be my choice of path IF I had a finish date for my time here in life...my mother chose a similar path, lived frugally and healthily but drew one of the short straws and moved on at 53 without ever doing any of the things she was preparing for...don't miss the ride!

yaduck9
02-26-2013, 14:36
[QUOTE=Andrew Ferk;1426584]Hi everyone,





EXIT the Rat Race - Go to school, get a job, get a car, get a house, get a girl (still work on this one ;), etc. I never really had a plan, other than to always move forward and aim high. I've become consumed by money and material things. Funny thing is, it kills me, because independence and autonomy are what make me happy. Instead I'm being drowned by the need for advancing my career, status, bank account, etc. So, yeah, the AT may be a quick exit.




This book may help to articulate your thoughts on what you wrote.....hope that helps.

http://www.amazon.com/One-Dimensional-Man-Ideology-Advanced-Industrial/dp/0807014176/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1361903251&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=one+diementional+man

Hosaphone
02-26-2013, 14:55
That's pretty much how my wife and I lived our professional lives--living below our means, saving like crazy. Paid off our small house in five years, shared a used car and never had a car loan, commuted by bicycle/bus, took hiking/biking vacations not cruises, cooked a lot instead of eating out, no cell phones or cable TV, etc. We retired when we were 40 and got out of the rat race permanently. If I could give some advice to the OP, I'd say stick it out in a career for 20 years, reduce your expenses like you're thinking about now, live on half your pay. That's delayed gratification, big time, and it's hard to do in your twenties, especially against peer pressure. But it can be done.


This is great...and it is brilliant it worked out for you...but for many it doesn't...the mundane and the mediocrity of everyday existence stifles most people until most of them can no longer even conceive of an alternative existence...it would, however, be my choice of path IF I had a finish date for my time here in life...my mother chose a similar path, lived frugally and healthily but drew one of the short straws and moved on at 53 without ever doing any of the things she was preparing for...don't miss the ride!

+1 to both of you...

I don't believe in delayed gratification. 100 people die in car accidents on their way to work each day, and probably 1000 more get into accidents that leave them with brain damage, disabilities, etc. Never know when you're going to get run over by a cement mixer, develop cancer, etc. Maybe by the time you get to retirement, your body is in poor shape and you can't leave the house. Maybe 30 years from now the world is a very different place and "retirement" isn't even a thing anymore.

I do definitely believe in living well below your means, though... It just seems to make so much sense to me, though I guess everyone is different. I guess to many people, having a shiny new car and a big house is very important. Glad I'm not one of those people.

prain4u
02-26-2013, 15:40
I am at the other end of the scale compared to most of the other posters. I, personally, don't agree with your decision or plan.

1) I fully respect your right to do whatever you feel like doing. It is your life. You are an adult. Hike Your Own Hike.

2) HOWEVER, I personally think that you are being "unwise" and perhaps even a bit foolish--to be doing what you are doing.

3) I can't fathom why you would give up a fairly good job--in a field that you love, sell almost all of your possessions (and, leave yourself without a lot of cash to start over again)--JUST TO GO HIKING. (particularly in light of the next point)

4) For me the real kicker is this: YOU HAVE ESSENTIALLY NOT DONE MUCH HIKING AND DON'T REALLY KNOW IF YOU WILL EVEN LIKE IT!

5) If you had posted your plan BEFORE you had already taken all of these dramatic steps, I would have personally recommended that you try some section hikes FIRST. THEN, if you actually LIKE the outdoor life and ENJOY hiking--MAYBE, at that point, you could give up your job and your possessions.

As it stands, you have taken some pretty dramatic and severe steps--all to pursue a romantic notion of hiking for several months on an outdoor trail--when you don't know if you even LIKE hiking. The reality is, a very large percentage of folks who begin an attempted thru hike don't complete it. An even more harsh reality is that the dropout rate is VERY high among those who have little--or no--hiking experience.

Ultimately, I wish you all the best--and much success--on your hike. I just wish that you hadn't taken such bold steps--before you know if you even like hiking. Good luck!

(And now, I brace myself the inevitable negative feedback that I will probably receive on WhiteBlaze for daring to question someone's actions and daring to rain on their parade)

hikerboy57
02-26-2013, 15:44
I am at the other end of the scale compared to most of the other posters. I, personally, don't agree with your decision or plan.

1) I fully respect your right to do whatever you feel like doing. It is your life. You are an adult. Hike Your Own Hike.

2) HOWEVER, I personally think that you are being "unwise" and perhaps even a bit foolish--to be doing what you are doing.

3) I can't fathom why you would give up a fairly good job--in a field that you love, sell almost all of your possessions (and, leave yourself without a lot of cash to start over again)--JUST TO GO HIKING. (particularly in light of the next point)

4) For me the real kicker is this: YOU HAVE ESSENTIALLY NOT DONE MUCH HIKING AND DON'T REALLY KNOW IF YOU WILL EVEN LIKE IT!

5) If you had posted your plan BEFORE you had already taken all of these dramatic steps, I would have personally recommended that you try some section hikes FIRST. THEN, if you actually LIKE the outdoor life and ENJOY hiking--MAYBE, at that point, you could give up your job and your possessions.

As it stands, you have taken some pretty dramatic and severe steps--all to pursue a romantic notion of hiking for several months on an outdoor trail--when you don't know if you even LIKE hiking. The reality is, a very large percentage of folks who begin an attempted thru hike don't complete it. An even more harsh reality is that the dropout rate is VERY high among those who have little--or no--hiking experience.

Ultimately, I wish you all the best--and much success--on your hike. I just wish that you hadn't taken such bold steps--before you know if you even like hiking. Good luck!

(And now, I brace myself the inevitable negative feedback that I will probably receive on WhiteBlaze for daring to question someone's actions and daring to rain on their parade)
perspective is a funny thing.
for all the above reasons, i think he should go.no wife, noo kids, just started a career, has a skill set thats in demand, and is growing tired of consumerism, even though hes young.

10-K
02-26-2013, 15:55
It's a good thing we're not all the same.

I do think telling someone they should do something because they might die is wacko (sorry).

Of course you might die - but given the statistical odds of not dying that's a dumb reason to do something.

You might die in a car accident getting shuttled to Hiawassie.....

Might might might

Alligator
02-26-2013, 15:55
Andrew,

your motivation seems good
your "purge" should pay for your hike
your education plus experience will get you another job when you finish your hike

on the other hand, unless your ROTH and investment account are bigger than you let on, your 40k student loan means you're in a deficit situation. That's not a big deal if you get back to work shortly after your hike. When you do get back to work you might consider using your ROTH and other account to pay down some of that debt. It doesn't make much sense to me to contribute to "investment for your future" accounts with 40k in debt hanging over your head. Pay that off as quickly as possible and you're still plenty young enough to "pay the pig" for your future.Depends on the interest rates on both plus early withdrawal penalty probably as well on the Roth.

10-K
02-26-2013, 16:00
I'm a huge believer in delayed gratification. That's why I'm semi-retired at 51 and go hiking all the time.

I doubt many of you would have encouraged me to work all those hundred hour weeks I worked to get here.

It has paid off a thousandfold.

Fur Queue
02-26-2013, 16:00
It's a good thing we're not all the same.

I do think telling someone they should do something because they might die is wacko (sorry).

Of course you might die - but given the statistical odds of not dying that's a dumb reason to do something.

You might die in a car accident getting shuttled to Hiawassie.....

Might might might


Might?? It's not a maybe....

10-K
02-26-2013, 16:01
Depends on the interest rates on both plus early withdrawal penalty probably as well on the Roth.

Chief assumes he has a lot of debt. I did not get that impression.

Ah... I missed the 40k in student loans. Without knowing the details it's impossible to say what the best move would be.

Fur Queue
02-26-2013, 16:02
Delayed gratification? If you like that join the priesthood....look where it gets them.Ha!

Alligator
02-26-2013, 16:09
Chief assumes he has a lot of debt. I did not get that impression.

Ah... I missed the 40k in student loans. Without knowing the details it's impossible to say what the best move would be. The balances don't matter. If say the Roth is earning 8% and the student loan is at 5%, a dollar in the Roth is making more than a dollar lost in interest in the student loan. Similar to why you pay off the highest interest credit cards first not the ones with the highest balances. Also, why you may not pay off a house first as the interest rate is general lower than say a credit card.

The Roth could be doing poorly though, I don't know.

HikerMom58
02-26-2013, 16:09
I am at the other end of the scale compared to most of the other posters. I, personally, don't agree with your decision or plan.

1) I fully respect your right to do whatever you feel like doing. It is your life. You are an adult. Hike Your Own Hike.

2) HOWEVER, I personally think that you are being "unwise" and perhaps even a bit foolish--to be doing what you are doing.

3) I can't fathom why you would give up a fairly good job--in a field that you love, sell almost all of your possessions (and, leave yourself without a lot of cash to start over again)--JUST TO GO HIKING. (particularly in light of the next point)

4) For me the real kicker is this: YOU HAVE ESSENTIALLY NOT DONE MUCH HIKING AND DON'T REALLY KNOW IF YOU WILL EVEN LIKE IT!

5) If you had posted your plan BEFORE you had already taken all of these dramatic steps, I would have personally recommended that you try some section hikes FIRST. THEN, if you actually LIKE the outdoor life and ENJOY hiking--MAYBE, at that point, you could give up your job and your possessions.

As it stands, you have taken some pretty dramatic and severe steps--all to pursue a romantic notion of hiking for several months on an outdoor trail--when you don't know if you even LIKE hiking. The reality is, a very large percentage of folks who begin an attempted thru hike don't complete it. An even more harsh reality is that the dropout rate is VERY high among those who have little--or no--hiking experience.

Ultimately, I wish you all the best--and much success--on your hike. I just wish that you hadn't taken such bold steps--before you know if you even like hiking. Good luck!

(And now, I brace myself the inevitable negative feedback that I will probably receive on WhiteBlaze for daring to question someone's actions and daring to rain on their parade)

I think you are making some very valid points. It's a crap shoot as 2 if he will enjoy the adventure or NOT. He may love it or he may hate it or something in between. He won't be able to know, for sure, until he does it.

As far as my possessions go.. I have a love/hate relationship with all my "stuff". I like my home. I like my car.

If Andrew does "The Hike", I believe, it will give him a different perspective on life and everything that goes with it. It could be a very good thing.

Slo-go'en
02-26-2013, 16:13
As it stands, you have taken some pretty dramatic and severe steps--all to pursue a romantic notion of hiking for several months on an outdoor trail--when you don't know if you even LIKE hiking. The reality is, a very large percentage of folks who begin an attempted thru hike don't complete it. An even more harsh reality is that the dropout rate is VERY high among those who have little--or no--hiking experience.

I could not agree more on the above point. To the OP's credit, he is planning a couple of training trips. It would be a good idea to do those before being 100% commited to the hike. It's not rocket science, but learning as you go probably isn't a good idea in the 100 mile wilderness!

10-K
02-26-2013, 16:20
The balances don't matter. If say the Roth is earning 8% and the student loan is at 5%, a dollar in the Roth is making more than a dollar lost in interest in the student loan. Similar to why you pay off the highest interest credit cards first not the ones with the highest balances. Also, why you may not pay off a house first as the interest rate is general lower than say a credit card.

The Roth could be doing poorly though, I don't know.

That's what I mean - there's no way to tell without knowing the details.

Cookerhiker
02-26-2013, 16:24
As one who put off completing the AT until retirement, I'd normally advise caution before quitting a good job for something that may not even work out. But in your case, you have a number of factors in your favor: youth, no obligations except for the student loan, and most of all, a good skill set i.e. software engineers will still be marketable when your (hopeful) thruhike ends.

The choice for a shakedown hike is obvious: being that you live in MN, hike for a week on the Superior Trail where the terrain of rocks & roots is very similar to the part of Maine where you'd start a SOBO AT hike. And work on your aerobic fitness; Maine becomes very hard before entering NH.

Hosaphone
02-26-2013, 16:25
I'm a huge believer in delayed gratification. That's why I'm semi-retired at 51 and go hiking all the time.

I doubt many of you would have encouraged me to work all those hundred hour weeks I worked to get here.

It had paid off a thousandfold.

I suppose that, as with everything in life, there has to be some balance and middle ground, and everyone has to figure out what's right for them. I'm not going to go spend my life savings in a week on some crazy thing, but I'm also not going to wait until I'm 60 to have fun or do "bucket list" things.

hikerboy57
02-26-2013, 16:30
I think you are making some very valid points. It's a crap shoot as 2 if he will enjoy the adventure or NOT. He may love it or he may hate it or something in between. He won't be able to know, for sure, until he does it.

As far as my possessions go.. I have a love/hate relationship with all my "stuff". I like my home. I like my car.

If Andrew does "The Hike", I believe, it will give him a different perspective on life and everything that goes with it. It could be a very good thing.

seems to me the trip is just a part of his purge.
you can always buy more stuff.hes not selling his waterfront home and yacht, family heirlooms, etc.
if he doesnt finish his trip or if he only makes it a month, he can still buy more stuff.
cmon guys, its just stuff

Alligator
02-26-2013, 16:36
That's what I mean - there's no way to tell without knowing the details.Chief's reply suggested that it was a balance problem when it is really an interest rate problem. That's the only point I was making. Often people worried about debt focus on balances when it's the interest rates that are important. (Barring some other minor issues such as minimum payments for instance.)

10-K
02-26-2013, 16:42
Alligator, just a point of clarification, ROTH contributions can be withdrawn penalty free before 59 1/2 at any time but earnings cannot. It's a 2 step process and requires an IRS worksheet but it can be done .

For ex, if you contribute $4k to a ROTH on Monday and Friday it is worth $4,026 you can withdraw all but $26 penalty free. I have a few friends who use their ROTHs for emergency funds for this reason.

There might be an early withdrawal fee for cashing in a CD if that's what's in his ROTH.

10-K
02-26-2013, 16:44
Chief's reply suggested that it was a balance problem when it is really an interest rate problem. That's the only point I was making. Often people worried about debt focus on balances when it's the interest rates that are important. (Barring some other minor issues such as minimum payments for instance.)

Agree......

You just can't throw out financial advice willy-nilly - he may stand to get a substantial inheritance in the future making all of this moot - who knows.

Fur Queue
02-26-2013, 16:49
Don't forget to pack a Taxation and Investment guide in your pack...read it every morning to remind yourself what you are missing....

chief
02-26-2013, 16:51
Depends on the interest rates on both plus early withdrawal penalty probably as well on the Roth.Yep, it depends on a lot of things. Note I said "you might consider".

Alligator
02-26-2013, 17:01
Yep, it depends on a lot of things. Note I said "you might consider".Just clarifying the parameters some. I did what you suggested a few years back to close out some high interest debt myself.

chief
02-26-2013, 17:10
Chief's reply suggested that it was a balance problem when it is really an interest rate problem. That's the only point I was making. Often people worried about debt focus on balances when it's the interest rates that are important. (Barring some other minor issues such as minimum payments for instance.)Without knowing the details, we don't know whether it's a balance problem or an interest rate problem. It just seems to me, if his savings balances are substantially less than his debt balances, his interest earned may not be enough to fill the gap. So yes, it could be a balance problem.

HikerMom58
02-26-2013, 17:19
seems to me the trip is just a part of his purge.
you can always buy more stuff.hes not selling his waterfront home and yacht, family heirlooms, etc.
if he doesnt finish his trip or if he only makes it a month, he can still buy more stuff.
cmon guys, its just stuff

His stuff isn't as big of a deal as what you are suggesting, HB. That's true.

If he realizes that it could be a month long trip or a 6 month trip. If he stays realistic about what his life will "look like" after the "purging hike".... he won't have any regrets, IMHO. I would say, go for it! It won't impact anyone else right now, that's a plus!! :)

10-K
02-26-2013, 17:19
No matter what his ROTH balance is he should keep enough in it for emergencies since it can be withdrawn w/o a penalty.

Otherwise he might be forced to borrow money to cover an emergency.

No matter how much debt you have you should have an emergency fund.

Alligator
02-26-2013, 17:28
Without knowing the details, we don't know whether it's a balance problem or an interest rate problem. It just seems to me, if his savings balances are substantially less than his debt balances, his interest earned may not be enough to fill the gap. So yes, it could be a balance problem.No the balance is unimportant. Consider it this way. Loan of $400 at 5% simple interest per year. Investment of $100 at 10% per year. Losing $20 a year on the loan, gaining $10 a year on the investment. Net loss of $10. You might suggest taking the investment and paying down the loan. That leaves $300 on the loan, with loses now $15/year instead of $10/year. Any dollar though taken out taken out of the investment side and applied to the loan is a worse option because of the interest difference. The balance could be anything. Granted with a lower balance he may still be losing money, but losing less than if he took the investment and put it towards the loan. As a second case, if the $100 investment yields over 20%, it is actually making money to cover the loan.

There are other considerations such as credit scores and whether one might need further loans, credit scores vs. car insurance, even credit scores and jobs, debt and job hiring etc.

Andrew Ferk
02-26-2013, 17:33
Hi everyone,

Wow! Thanks for all the comments.

I would like to quickly address the financial concerns. I'm not worried about it. Mostly, I'm worried about wasting my 20s away at work. Yes, I have a $40k student loan, but I'm very confident that I could pay this off in two or three years by living below my means. My skills are in high demand and the market is paying a lot for them. No one expects this to change in the next five years. With that said, quitting my job was not a risk or considered bold, as I didn't like my job (I love my industry/career) and I had a few offers waiting for a response. Also, I do have additional emergency funds, but I pretend I don't have this so I didn't mention it. Yes, I have made some mistakes, such as buying a brand new car. I blame that on my uncle, the guy who sold it to me; he was very convincing :)

I think I initially came across too confident. When I think about walking the AT at an average 14.5 miles/day, with 30+ lbs, in unpredictable weather and terrain it makes me a nauseous. At the same time, it is the challenge that drives me, not that hiking may be fun or that I'm actually "escaping" the rat race. Ultimately, I will get back into the race, but hopefully I can make it into my own race, just as people make the hike into their own hike. Also, I'm confident that the stories I can tell about the AT will be better than the stories I could tell about that video game or TV show I played/watched, or the drive I made heading downtown, or that line of code I wrote that one day :)

Again, thanks everyone for the comments. I enjoy the many perspectives and take them all seriously.

Regards,
Andrew

HikerMom58
02-26-2013, 17:42
Sweet Andrew..... I wish you the very best.... glad we could help you out and that you gave us a chance to have some input into ur life's decisions! :)

10-K
02-26-2013, 17:51
.........................

Fur Queue
02-26-2013, 17:56
Best of luck Andrew!

Slo-go'en
02-26-2013, 17:59
Well, it doesn't seem like you got much to loose and might gain a lot from a long hike, so what the heck?

rocketsocks
02-26-2013, 18:11
Andrew, you have no wife, no kids...your young, a means to make a living, go for it dude! The talkin part of this is over, have a great hike!

Wild Blue
02-26-2013, 21:12
Andrew I have to add my encouragement. I'm just another new guy to Whiteblaze but It seems to me you are at an opportune time, no wife and kids and good job prospects upon completion. By the way once you have the bug it stays with you a long time so if you don't do this now for some reason you can do it later. I've wanted to hike the AT since the 4th grade when I did a school report on it. In between then and age 44 I got busy in other dreams, mainly a family and a 20+ year Air Force career. But now With my youngest at 16 and my very supportive wife saying "go for it" I'm looking at 2014 or 2015 for a thru hike. Still if the time is right do it now and you won't have to wait as long as I am. Cheers, Pete.

canoe
02-26-2013, 21:45
Here is a diff perspective. This trip is not for a lifetime, its not even for a year, probably not even six months. It s a trip of 4/5months. Whats the big deal. If Andrew was going to quit his job to go to school and get more education everyone would be all over that. Well my friends he will get an education that no amount of money can buy and that which no school could give. He sounds like to me a very hard worker, with a plan. He does nt want to wait til he s 60 even if he was well off to do so. Just not as fun at 60. Dont care what others say.

hikerboy57
02-26-2013, 22:11
No the balance is unimportant. Consider it this way. Loan of $400 at 5% simple interest per year. Investment of $100 at 10% per year. Losing $20 a year on the loan, gaining $10 a year on the investment. Net loss of $10. You might suggest taking the investment and paying down the loan. That leaves $300 on the loan, with loses now $15/year instead of $10/year. Any dollar though taken out taken out of the investment side and applied to the loan is a worse option because of the interest difference. The balance could be anything. Granted with a lower balance he may still be losing money, but losing less than if he took the investment and put it towards the loan. As a second case, if the $100 investment yields over 20%, it is actually making money to cover the loan.

There are other considerations such as credit scores and whether one might need further loans, credit scores vs. car insurance, even credit scores and jobs, debt and job hiring etc.
do i really have to remind you about thread drift?:)

Alligator
02-26-2013, 23:48
do i really have to remind you about thread drift?:)I was actually considering splitting/copying some of this into a new thread about home financial considerations. Maybe tomorrow.

prain4u
02-26-2013, 23:59
do i really have to remind you about thread drift?:)

Probably my favorite post in the entire thread. I appreciate irony and/or sarcasm.

hikerboy57
02-27-2013, 00:12
whats irony?

garlic08
02-27-2013, 00:26
Speaking of irony...Here we are, debating the merits of delayed gratification, whether to hike the AT now or later in life, when completing an AT thru hike is delayed gratification in itself. What keeps you hiking day after day? What if you can't make it? Same thing that kept 10K (and me) working those 100-hour weeks--the goal of early retirement and lots of hiking time.

Some say a thru-hike will strengthen you for life. I say the converse is true as well. A disciplined life, lived toward achieving goals like early retirement, will strengthen you for a thru-hike.

prain4u
02-27-2013, 00:41
Here is a diff perspective. This trip is not for a lifetime, its not even for a year, probably not even six months. It s a trip of 4/5months. Whats the big deal. If Andrew was going to quit his job to go to school and get more education everyone would be all over that. Well my friends he will get an education that no amount of money can buy and that which no school could give. He sounds like to me a very hard worker, with a plan. He does nt want to wait til he s 60 even if he was well off to do so. Just not as fun at 60. Dont care what others say.


I see the very same points that you are making--but they cause me to come up with a totally different response.

--You are correct. This is for only 4-6 months. Thus, I am compelled to ask, "Why quit a job and sell one's possessions for something that will last just 4-6 months (or less)?"

--I agree that most people would not have a problem with the OP quitting a job and selling things in order to go to school. However, most folks would not quit a job, give up their apartment, sell their car and sell most other possessions in order to attend a school for just 4-6 months. This is especially true if it was a "school" where 75% of the "students" do not graduate--and are back home pretty quickly after the "semester" starts. They would probably take a more conservative approach.

--I am not against the OP trying a thru hike while he is still young, unattached and in good health. I actually think it is a very good idea. My biggest concern is that the OP (needlessly?) took such bold and drastic actions--WHEN HE READILY ADMITS THAT HE HAS NEVER DONE ANY SIGNIFICANT HIKING OR CAMPING! Thus, he doesn't even know if he LIKES hiking and camping.

--It might have been a bit more practical to at least take a couple weeks of vacation and attempt some backpacking--before giving up virtually everything in order to go backpacking. (Who would go out buy a new vehicle without ever seeing the vehicle or test driving it?)

--Instead of giving up everything for just 4-6 months (or very likely for a much shorter time), I would have stored things--not sold them (even though storage facilities cost money). I would have (at first) sought a leave of absence from my job and seen what the boss' response would be. I probably would not have just quit the job outright as my first response.

Statistically speaking, roughly 75% of those who attempt a thru hike do not complete it. The chances are VERY good that this hike will be over in less than 3 months--maybe even less than a month. Thus, giving up everything for the hike seems a bit radical. (Sort of like killing houseflies with shotguns and/or nuclear weapons!) A less radical approach would have probably achieved the same objectives--with less collateral damage and fewer long-lasting consequences.

Just my opinion. Your Mileage May Vary!

prain4u
02-27-2013, 00:43
whats irony?


The opposite of wrinkly!

i·ro·ny

Noun"The expression of one's meaning by using language that normally signifies the opposite, typically for humorous or emphatic effect. "

BirdBrain
02-27-2013, 02:14
whats irony?

The opposite of wrinkly.



I posted my post before reading above post. Now my post looks lame.
Oh, well... great minds and all that.

JAK
02-27-2013, 03:33
God could not give us free will and still guarantee us justice and equality ... so he also gave us irony.
From this comes faith, hope and charity... and grace.

You don't always need a good sense of humour to fully accept or understand grace, but thankfully, it often comes with.

garlic08
02-27-2013, 08:51
...Oh, well... great minds and all that.

I know that quote: "Great minds think alike...and so do ours."

BirdBrain
02-27-2013, 14:06
I know that quote: "Great minds think alike...and so do ours."

Love the support and your state. I call it a desolate beauty. Been all over the north half. Have not seen the bottom half.

Arizona is a great place to escape the rat race. So much to see. So many wide open views.

Biggie Master
02-27-2013, 21:21
If I knew then (a point in my life with similar circumstances to yours), what I know now (aka life experience) -- I would do what you're planning to do. Best wishes on a fulfilling thru hike.

perrymk
02-28-2013, 07:40
If I understand it correctly, the purpose of a student loan is that you get a better job than you otherwise could and then to pay back the money. It seems you want to intentionally postpone your end of the agreement for an extended vacation, even if that agreement was only tacit. Does the lender go along with this?

If you can, as you say, pay it off in 2 to 3 years, why not do this first? Then you are truly debt free, you have time to learn if you really like backpacking, and you have some time to tweak your gear. You will still be fairly young.

I'm all for you living your life your way, but what you are suggesting borders on freeloading. You took the money, not it's your turn to live up to your end of the deal. If we can take money and not live up to our end of the agreement, why not get unemployment while you hike too?

Sorry if I'm a stick in the mud. Someone has to say it.

Firefighter503
02-28-2013, 08:15
As long as he is paying the loan back as agreed, your argument is invalid. There is nothing that says he must pay the loan back ASAP. The longer he has the loan, the more the loaner is making anyways (in general).

Lone Wolf
02-28-2013, 08:23
Hi everyone,

I'm looking for some life experience :)

I've been working in a career I love for five years after graduating with my Bachelor's. While I like my career and my industry (software engineering), my work experience hasn't been on-par of what I strive for in life (greatness). I decided to join a Master's program, and full time work + school has been rough, but quite rewarding. I'll be graduating in May and I'm ready for a new challenge, a.k.a, the Appalachian Trail. This idea came up in the bar, after class, as another student was telling me about his experience with the trail. I went home, did some research, and became committed to the idea.

The Appalachian Trail has a few purposes for me:

Physical challenge - I'm in good shape, but 2080 miles of good shape? I suppose I'll find out.
Mental challenge - As a young adult, I always had the idea of living in my grandpa's dome, in the woods, away from everyone else... all alone. I think going SOBO will give me plenty of alone time :) also, as I've grown older, I've become more extroverted, so I no longer want to live alone, but I still would like to see how much alone time I can handle.
EXIT the Rat Race - Go to school, get a job, get a car, get a house, get a girl (still work on this one ;), etc. I never really had a plan, other than to always move forward and aim high. I've become consumed by money and material things. Funny thing is, it kills me, because independence and autonomy are what make me happy. Instead I'm being drowned by the need for advancing my career, status, bank account, etc. So, yeah, the AT may be a quick exit.


But how should I handle this? I have an idea called "the purge". This involves:

Quitting my job - Done: done, I took a 3-month contract job to fill the void to June/July
End my lease - Done: the landlord is ready to amend the contract end date to June 30th
Pay off credit card debt - Done: I just paid it all off today
Selling my car - I made a good downpayment on a 2012 Subaru Legacy in 2011. If I sold the car today, I would be able to pay off the remainder and have about $2k extra.
Furniture - Yeah, I've accumulated a bunch of ****... 50" TV, couch, recliner, king size bed, bookcase, large computer desk, etc. Sell it all. Except maybe the king size bed, when I start life again, I think I would like to start with a king size bed :)
Cancel services - Cable, cell phone, Netflix, Hulu, gym membership, etc.


What does this leave me with? On the positive side, I still have my Roth and small investment account, five years of experience and a Master's in a booming industry. On the downside, I'm pretty much have no assets, $200/month in health insurance, and a $40k student loan i need to start paying off when I get done.

I laid it out. Any life experience would be appreciated here. I'm getting a little nervous about selling the car. I actually want to start using the bus for a 45 days, and once I got that down, sell the car. I have no problem biking once the weather gets better. Once I sell the car, I need to sell the TV and cancel the cabel/internet :/ But the trail... it's going to be awesome. I hope :)

Thanks,
Andrew

you have a 10% chance of makin' it to maine. don't cash in all your chips. you might not even like long distance walkin'. most thru-hiker wannabes don't. hence the low completion rate. for most thru-hikers it IS a rat race. more about the destination than the journey. rush, rush, rush. then get a picture taken at a sign :cool:

hikerboy57
02-28-2013, 08:35
Freeloading? I don't remember any where in his post where he said he wasn't paying back is loan

hikerboy57
02-28-2013, 09:03
you have a 10% chance of makin' it to maine. don't cash in all your chips. you might not even like long distance walkin'. most thru-hiker wannabes don't. hence the low completion rate. for most thru-hikers it IS a rat race. more about the destination than the journey. rush, rush, rush. then get a picture taken at a sign :cool:

i still think the hike is part of the plan, not just the plan. yes he can stay at work for a few more years, pay off his loan, but in between he can fall in love have a kid, etc. and then hes postponing the hike for 20 or 3o years.
you're right LW, he may spend a week on the trail and decide its not for him, but his mindset leads me to believe its not just about the hike, its about changing the way he lives, and the hike is part of that change.

jrwiesz
02-28-2013, 10:00
I hope he makes it to Maine; that's where he stated he would start!

Go for it.

chief
02-28-2013, 14:30
No the balance is unimportant....I wonder how many people are facing financial disaster from not paying attention to the "balances" (the bottom line). By your logic, he should be borrowing even more to place in investments. We all know investments are safe, there is no recession, no stock market adjustments, no housing bubbles, plentiful jobs/no layoffs, banks and financial advisers are our friends.

Yep, this is off topic. I'm done.

kayak karl
02-28-2013, 14:46
if you are selling out to the Establishment, the existing power structure in society; the dominant groups in society and their customs or institutions; institutional authority, you will not need to look back. pay off all debts and, Turn on, tune in, drop out :D Peace

Siestita
03-14-2013, 20:52
Andrew--In recent years the feds, banks, and universities have become much more aggressive than they were in the past about collecting student loans. So, you may want to double check how much time,if any, you'll be permitted to delay beginning to make those minimum payments. And, the student loan payments may need to be calculated in your "AT Hike" budget, along with funds for your monthly health insurance premiums, initial equipment purchases, travel to the trail head, expenses incurred while hiking, and money saved for eventual reentry into non-trail existence.

I would be surprised if fully "gearing up" well for long distance AT hiking costs you less than $1,000. Some find it helpful to devote more than that to such purchases. These days it is not unusual for AT thru hikers spend $5,000 for "expenses during the journey", things like food, town lodgings, and replacement of worn out clothing and equipment. Contributors to threads here on WB have knowledgeably analyzed and debated those costs.

Once you estimate your total AT thru hike costs, you may find it prudent to postpone beginning the walk until spring, 2014. In the mean time, you could remain working while simplifying your life, living substantially below your means, and taking several short backpacking trips, jaunts lasting from several days to several weeks each. My point is that additional possibilities exist besides "drop everything and hike immediately" and "wait until retirement".

hikerboy57
03-14-2013, 21:09
go for it, andrew. just do it.even if you dont finish.
i just quit my job monday, heading down to georgia sunday. i know i can either get my old job back or find work as soon as i return. i saw a window of opportunity and im going for it. im not hiking thru, just north for a few months, once im through damascus ill decide what to do next.you've already started the journey and thats what its all about isnt it?
the prudent thing to do would be to wait and plan for next year, pay down your loan.
but dear prudence,life is what happens to you while youre busy making other plans. before you know it the years have passed and you're still "planning"

dont listen to the naysayers!!!!!

Siestita
03-14-2013, 21:18
Andrew--Have you ever had the opportunity to read Thoreau's "Walden"? I like these striking quotes:

"...I see young men, my townsmen, whose misfortune it is to have inherited farms, houses, barns, cattle, and farming tools; for these are more easily acquired than got rid of...Why should they begin digging their graves as soon as they are born?...I am wont to think that men are not so much the keepers of herds as herds are the keepers of men, the former are so much the freer. Men and oxen exchange work: but if we consider necessary work only, the oxen will be seen to have greatly the advantage, their farm is so much the larger..."

Donde
03-15-2013, 02:19
Have a good hike.

Bronk
03-15-2013, 07:09
I was about your age when I did what you are planning on doing. I quit a good job, threw most of what I owned into a trash dumpster and spent 4 months on the trail. Most people thought i was crazy. And I had butterflies in my stomach as I packed what was left into 4 boxes and 3 suitcases (which is all I had for the next 3 years). It was one of the best things I've ever done. Don't look back.

A lot of people told me it would look really bad to have a gap in my employment history. But when I tell prospective employers that I hiked 850 miles in one stretch they don't seem to be bothered by the gap in employment. In these tough times I'd venture to say that this would make your resume really stand out.