View Full Version : Tank It Up Or Not?
I have read in many threads here and other forums about drinking extra water ( I guess tank it up is the phrase) before leaving water sources yet I have not found any benefit from it anywhere in the reliable texts and in my personal experience.
To me it does not make any difference to carry some extra water in my hydration system or in my stomach. They both are extra weight I have to carry and put extra pressure on my knees and feet. If I have to choose between these two ,I will go with carrying more water than drinking extra. In a normal individual any extra water turns to urine in less than 30 minutes and does not make any real difference in hydration status of the individual.
Am I missing something? how has been your experience in real hiking situation? I like to know your take about it.
Chuckie V
02-28-2013, 18:43
Water intoxication/hyponatremia is a reality; you can run a search on Google to read some of the horror stories, but most these folks fail to heed their thirst/desire for water. They "tank up" on water (water that's usually devoid of sodium, which is the real problem) in hopes they'll absorb more, when in fact all they do is disturb their electrolyte/water balance and pee it out...if they're lucky.
Thirst is a pretty accurate mechanism, especially as you do more and more physical activity. If it fails you, you'll suffer a few possible effects (constipation, headache, etc), but none can kill you like messing with an extreme electrolyte imbalance.
Guzzling an extra liter or so of water in a very short time doesn't do much good. Drinking more water than you think you want over the course of a long lunch or overnight at camp very definitely helps to keep you hydrated.
I recall somewhere learning that the body generally can process about 8 to 10 oz of water per hour for metabolic purposes, much more than that usually triggers you to pee it out. If really sweating, I would assume your body would hold on to some more of the water to replace the sweat.
There is a definite limit, to how fast your body will use the water. Drinking an extra half liter or so at a spring on a hot day does have psychological advantages, and it just tastes good.
yellowsirocco
02-28-2013, 18:55
I like to tank up in the summer. I am usually sweating so much that I don't have to worry about drinking too much. It is so much better to be pissing all the time than to go the other direction and get heat exhaustion. Tanking up is really a mechanism to ensure I drink enough. Also when I don't carry much water and I am on the low end of my food bag I can unclip my hipbelt which is really nice.
Water intoxication/hyponatremia is a reality; you can run a search on Google to read some of the horror stories, but most these folks fail to heed their thirst/desire for water. They "tank up" on water (water that's usually devoid of sodium, which is the real problem) in hopes they'll absorb more, when in fact all they do is disturb their electrolyte/water balance and pee it out...if they're lucky.
Thirst is a pretty accurate mechanism, especially as you do more and more physical activity. If it fails you, you'll suffer a few possible effects (constipation, headache, etc), but none can kill you like messing with an extreme electrolyte imbalance.
Amen to this
Guzzling an extra liter or so of water in a very short time doesn't do much good. Drinking more water than you think you want over the course of a long lunch or overnight at camp very definitely helps to keep you hydrated.
I recall somewhere learning that the body generally can process about 8 to 10 oz of water per hour for metabolic purposes, much more than that usually triggers you to pee it out. If really sweating, I would assume your body would hold on to some more of the water to replace the sweat.
There is a definite limit, to how fast your body will use the water. Drinking an extra half liter or so at a spring on a hot day does have psychological advantages, and it just tastes good.
If this gives you a psychological boost I am fine with it. Any advantage ( especially Psychological ) is a plus but I am not in this group. Extra water gives me extra pee and extra time to find a place to pee if the trail is a busy one.
hikerboy57
02-28-2013, 19:19
you are missing a little bit. metabolism. youre not carrying all the water you drank, is being sweat out along the way, same as food you are digesting is no longer the same weight as you were carrying..
overhydration can be a serious issue, almost as serious as heat exhaustion. the conventional thinking is if you wait till you're thirsty to drink, you're already dehydrated.
Leanthree
02-28-2013, 19:23
The benefit I have seen in my hiking is when I arrive at a water source already rather thirsty, I find it important to take a break to replenish both the water in my body and my water bottles. This is especially important when desert hiking as you may need to drink 2+ gallons of water a day under certain conditions which is near impossible to carry when there are scarce water sources
To the water intoxication point, I also consume salty snacks when drinking lots of water. Normally it is when I am already thirsty and was holding off until I had more water.
MuddyWaters
02-28-2013, 19:26
It is easier to carry the water in your stomach, than on your back. Your knees and feet may not know the difference, but your upper body will.
My personal view, its a waste to "camel up" with more than half a liter at a time, unless you are dehydrated to start with. Like is said, your body really wont use all of it, you will just peed it out, taking electrolytes with it.
Chuckie V
02-28-2013, 19:58
Muddy,
As per your last paragraph/personal view, you don't "take electrolytes with it" when you pee, unless your body is overloaded on electrolytes (and not on water alone). If you're hyper-hydrated on water alone, you pee because your kidneys are seeking a better balance of water/electrolytes, not just because you're over-hydrated and need to piss.
Excess water dilutes the body's electrolytes, whereas restricted amounts of water concentrates them, and the body's electrolytes must be maintained at very precise concentrations or all hell breaks loose. The kidneys regulate this and help maintain the proper balance of water and electrolytes by secreting an excess of either...not both at once, unless we're over-hydrated in perfect balance (which is nigh impossible).
The issue with hyponatremia is that our kidneys don't always work quickly enough in matching our intake...and so people deplete their electrolytes, which are required for so many other corporeal functions.
Dehydration is obviously a concern for long-distance hikers, but it's effects are far less risky than the opposite, whether you're chronically dehydrated or otherwise. The body is very resilient to most our mistakes, but the fastest way to screw-up is to drink too much water. Bottom line here: drink by thirst, and slowly.
"Water, taken in moderation, cannot hurt anybody..." ~Mark Twain
Prime Time
02-28-2013, 20:22
My father actually had his sodium level "crash" as a result of over hydration. He was out in the heat, actually roasting a lamb over an open charcoal fire, and began to feel dizzy so he kept drinking water because he thought he was dehydrated. He drank so much and peed so much he flushed to much sodium out of his body in the form of electrolytes. He collapsed and was rushed to the hospital where he almost died. Drink plenty of water, but in moderation. Drink what you have used or will use, not way more!
Cookerhiker
02-28-2013, 20:35
Another one here - after a dehydration episode (http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=98010) on a Spring section hike in '05, I was determined to drink enough water for my next section hike which occurred starting on a hot & humid summer day at Bear Mountain (http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=103302). On the third day, after drinking lots of water, I all of a sudden hit a wall with sluggishness and nausea. I'm convinced it was hyponatremia. After taking things extremely slow and munching on salted peanuts, I was better in a few hours.
ChuckieV - I think it would be great if you could write a brief article on this subject for the Articles section or a "Sticky" in the Health & Safety Forum.
MuddyWaters
02-28-2013, 20:39
A 1993 case study in the journal “Nephron” showed that water intoxication can exaggerate the body’s response to peptide hormones that flush sodium and water out of the body. The flushing of fluids leads to potassium deficiency, otherwise known as hypokalemia.
Magnesium Depletion
Drinking too much water can also lead to depletion of magnesium in your body — a mineral essential to maintaining potassium levels. Magnesium can be flushed out of your body through your urine the same way as potassium. Without adequate magnesium in your body, potassium has difficulty entering into your cells where potassium storage takes place. When the potassium cannot enter your cells for storage, your kidneys will eventually process it and flush it out through your urine.
I would have a difficult time believeing I have no salts in my pee, when I pee from drinking extra water.
Chuckie V
02-28-2013, 20:53
I would have a difficult time believeing I have no salts in my pee, when I pee from drinking extra water.
You do, and you're right. Having reread what I wrote, I feel the fool; it came across terribly. What I was essentially trying to get at is that it's not the peeing process that causes us the harm, but rather the extreme imbalance within the body prior to peeing, if that makes sense. We don't have to pee to be at risk of hyponatremia.
MuddyWaters
02-28-2013, 21:35
With a lot of things, the body cant start and stop on a dime, it sorta ramps up, and ramps down. And is prone to overshoot.
Sometimew works to our advantage.
When you do high intensity activty, it continues to burn elevated calorie levels for a long time afterwards, more than an hour.
And when athletes deplete their glycogen significantly over several days, then load on simple carbs before a competition, the body stores more glycogen on the rebound than it normally would. Aids athletic performance.
One trick bodybuilders use is to eat a ton of salt for a day or two, and drink tons of water to flush it out. Then they stop . The body keeps on flushing sodium and water. Lets them reduce subcutaneus water under the skin so that muscles appear harder. Certainly not a healthy practice. Bodybuilding is more akin to being a daredevil than anything. Competitors have dropped dead on stage before.
I think the most common expression is "camel up".
Hiking in warm weather and dehydration are major issues here.
While I would always recommend having a good amount of water inside you to camel up certainly doesn't do me any good.
I just pee more and I'm sure many older people have the same problem.
You should ALWAYS carry sufficient water for your needs.
Being a gram weenie on water can kill you in hot conditions.
As well as drinking whenever you feel thirsty you should watch the colour of your urine.
Even in cool weather you can get dehydrated. The yellower your pee the more dehydrated you are. Simple really.
If your urine stream is visibly yellow you are dehydrated. If you are well hydrated, you should need to have it in a container to see any yellow. The narrow stream should look essentially clear. Don't ignore the evidence.
Muddy,
As per your last paragraph/personal view, you don't "take electrolytes with it" when you pee, unless your body is overloaded on electrolytes (and not on water alone). If you're hyper-hydrated on water alone, you pee because your kidneys are seeking a better balance of water/electrolytes, not just because you're over-hydrated and need to piss.
Excess water dilutes the body's electrolytes, whereas restricted amounts of water concentrates them, and the body's electrolytes must be maintained at very precise concentrations or all hell breaks loose. The kidneys regulate this and help maintain the proper balance of water and electrolytes by secreting an excess of either...not both at once, unless we're over-hydrated in perfect balance (which is nigh impossible).
The issue with hyponatremia is that our kidneys don't always work quickly enough in matching our intake...and so people deplete their electrolytes, which are required for so many other corporeal functions.
Dehydration is obviously a concern for long-distance hikers, but it's effects are far less risky than the opposite, whether you're chronically dehydrated or otherwise. The body is very resilient to most our mistakes, but the fastest way to screw-up is to drink too much water. Bottom line here: drink by thirst, and slowly.
"Water, taken in moderation, cannot hurt anybody..." ~Mark Twain
You mentioned a very important point but I have something to add:
Kidneys are very powerful organs when it comes to removing extra water from the blood stream but they have their limitations. Kidneys can not produce urine with zero sodium( and other electrolytes) in it. there is a minimum concentration for the urinal sodium which is still considerable when it comes to consideration. So our body expends(waste) some of our sodium inadvertently to remove the excess water in our system.
kidchill
02-28-2013, 22:08
There's just too much disinformation in this thread and it's gonna lead to fear mongering. Tanking up, or as I call it "cameling" isn't about taking in "extra" water. You're not stopping and drinking a gallon at a time. I hit a water source, slam a liter and keep moving. Why? Because water is heavy and I hate carrying it! This doesn't mean I'm consuming "extra" water, it just means I'm not sipping as I go...I replenish and move on. Hyponatremia by definition is too little sodium per unit of volume in the extracellular space. Ions are usually measured by mEq/L and the normal serum Na concentration is 135-145. Dip below this range and you're looking at lethargy, confusion, loss of consciousness, coma, seizures, and cardiovascular collapse. In short, it's not good. Low sodium is usually the result of dilutional factors. This is why you hear the term "water intoxication." There's two main fluid compartments within the body, intracellular and extracellular. Intracellular is within the cells, extra is outside of the cells. The extracellular volume is also comprised of compartments, interstitial (between the cells) and intravascular (within vessels...this is your blood). There's also potential spacing but that's not really important here. Ions are also divided up into intra and extracellular. Wherever the ion is most concentrated is where it's considered to be. Sodium is an extracellular ion and correlates directly with chloride ions. NaCl is salt. What's happening with water intoxication related to hiking is people are out in the heat, working themselves, and sweating. Sweat isn't just water, it contains salts. You're essentially oozing salts and fluids out of your body, and then replenishing just the fluids. This dilutes the extracellular Na and leads to conduction abnormalities in the central nervous system...Hence all of the bad things happening with your brain. Unless you have dysfunctional kidneys, some kind of hypoaldosterone pathology, or you consume an insane amount of fluids rapidly, your kidneys aren't gonna spray out Na all willy-nilly. The excessive sodium loss is via sweating. If you and I are both using the same amount of water per unit time, and I camel a liter for the next hour, and you sip your liter for the next hour, it's essentially the same thing. It's still the same volume per unit time. I think you're assuming that "cameling" is drinking an insane amount of fluid in a short amount of time and your body just spills it out. That's not how it works.
"In a normal individual any extra water turns to urine in less than 30 minutes and does not make any real difference in hydration status of the individual." I have no idea where this came from. If I slam a liter of saline in a patient in 15min, they don't pee out a liter within the next 30minutes. IV fluids are going directly to the intravascular compartment, filtered directly through the kidneys...I think you'd be hard pressed to find data that supports that statement.
I'm not down playing the risk of water intoxication...I just want to make it clear that slamming a liter ever so often, versus sipping a liter in the same time isn't going to lead to acute water intoxication. Is it probably "nicer" for the body to sip fluids over time, yah, probably, but are you placing yourself at extreme risk by doing so? Probably not. Most of the stories I've heard about water intoxication or extreme dehydration were totally avoidable. You really do have to work at it to jack up your electrolytes. Also, everyone focuses on how thirsty they feel, no one ever talks about their urine. Urine should be clear yellow...not yellow, not dark yellow, definitely NOT tea colored...clear yellow! If your pee is getting dark, drink more fluids.
CarlZ993
02-28-2013, 22:10
I 'camel up' just before I leave camp in the morning. Usually about 1/2 L of water or so. Usually just emptying my platypus or Nalgene canteen. I eat salty foods throughout the day. Usually have some sort of electrolyte mix during the day (1/2 L). I'm aware of 'water intoxication' as well as 'heat exhaustion.' I haven't had the former but I have had the latter. At the time, I didn't even realize I was swaying while sitting down. I was close to passing out. I spent the night in the hospital for heat exhaustion. It wasn't pleasant. Had to wear a heart monitor during my stay due to the electrolyte imbalance that can cause some cardiac issues (i.e. death). After a few hours with an IV in me, I felt fine. Still had to spend the night.
I think the most common expression is "camel up".
Hiking in warm weather and dehydration are major issues here.
While I would always recommend having a good amount of water inside you to camel up certainly doesn't do me any good.
I just pee more and I'm sure many older people have the same problem.
You should ALWAYS carry sufficient water for your needs.
Being a gram weenie on water can kill you in hot conditions.
As well as drinking whenever you feel thirsty you should watch the colour of your urine.
Even in cool weather you can get dehydrated. The yellower your pee the more dehydrated you are. Simple really.
If your urine stream is visibly yellow you are dehydrated. If you are well hydrated, you should need to have it in a container to see any yellow. The narrow stream should look essentially clear. Don't ignore the evidence.
Now that is a point that worth the whole thread right there
There's just too much disinformation in this thread and it's gonna lead to fear mongering. Tanking up, or as I call it "cameling" isn't about taking in "extra" water. You're not stopping and drinking a gallon at a time. I hit a water source, slam a liter and keep moving. Why? Because water is heavy and I hate carrying it! This doesn't mean I'm consuming "extra" water, it just means I'm not sipping as I go...I replenish and move on. Hyponatremia by definition is too little sodium per unit of volume in the extracellular space. Ions are usually measured by mEq/L and the normal serum Na concentration is 135-145. Dip below this range and you're looking at lethargy, confusion, loss of consciousness, coma, seizures, and cardiovascular collapse. In short, it's not good. Low sodium is usually the result of dilutional factors. This is why you hear the term "water intoxication." There's two main fluid compartments within the body, intracellular and extracellular. Intracellular is within the cells, extra is outside of the cells. The extracellular volume is also comprised of compartments, interstitial (between the cells) and intravascular (within vessels...this is your blood). There's also potential spacing but that's not really important here. Ions are also divided up into intra and extracellular. Wherever the ion is most concentrated is where it's considered to be. Sodium is an extracellular ion( sorry but sodium is only mainly extracellular but we have sodium intracellular also which the balance is regulated by exchanging potassium with sodium, potassuim is more intracellular sodium more extracellular but we still have intracellular sodium and extracellular potassium) and correlates directly with chloride ions. NaCl is salt. What's happening with water intoxication related to hiking is people are out in the heat, working themselves, and sweating. Sweat isn't just water, it contains salts. You're essentially oozing salts and fluids out of your body, and then replenishing just the fluids. This dilutes the extracellular Na and leads to conduction abnormalities in the central nervous system...Hence all of the bad things happening with your brain. Unless you have dysfunctional kidneys, some kind of hypoaldosterone pathology, or you consume an insane amount of fluids rapidly, your kidneys aren't gonna spray out Na all willy-nilly. The excessive sodium loss is via sweating. If you and I are both using the same amount of water per unit time, and I camel a liter for the next hour, and you sip your liter for the next hour, it's essentially the same thing. It's still the same volume per unit time. I think you're assuming that "cameling" is drinking an insane amount of fluid in a short amount of time and your body just spills it out. That's not how it works.
"In a normal individual any extra water turns to urine in less than 30 minutes and does not make any real difference in hydration status of the individual." I have no idea where this came from( Forget about it that I have been a medical doctor for 20 years and passed the qualification exam in UK just six years ago this comes from the fact that when you drink excessive water you feel the urge to urinate in half an hour, Plain and simple ). If I slam a liter of saline in a patient in 15min, they don't pee out a liter within the next 30minutes. IV fluids are going directly to the intravascular compartment, filtered directly through the kidneys...I think you'd be hard pressed to find data that supports that statement.
I'm not down playing the risk of water intoxication...I just want to make it clear that slamming a liter ever so often, versus sipping a liter in the same time isn't going to lead to acute water intoxication. Is it probably "nicer" for the body to sip fluids over time, yah, probably( not probably, definitely), but are you placing yourself at extreme risk by doing so? Probably not. Most of the stories I've heard about water intoxication or extreme dehydration were totally avoidable. You really do have to work at it to jack up your electrolytes. Also, everyone focuses on how thirsty they feel, no one ever talks about their urine. Urine should be clear yellow...not yellow, not dark yellow, definitely NOT tea colored...clear yellow! If your pee is getting dark, drink more fluids.
Overall you mentioned very good points.
It boils down to electrolyte balance which has always been a boring subject when I was studying and practicing medicine( and extremely complicated one)
I don't sip - I don't carry a water bag.
I carry bottles and drink as often as I feel I need to.
Drinking before you start when near a water source is what we should all do.
Where "camelling up" is an issue and what the OP seemed to be querying is drinking well in excess of your need at the time.
This is not the same as say - drinking a half litre when you only feel like 200ml.
A whole litre when you are not thirsty to begin with is to me about where it becomes silly.
But HYOH.
But for me I see a litre when I don't want it as about good for 600ml as I'll pee the extra 400ml within an hour.:D
To misquote someone here.
"It's just drinking"
Good info. I learned something today.
We have a very old story in Iran which says: Once in a hot summer somebody was lost in the desert and could not find water for a long time. after some days he finally reached a village and knocked the door and asked for water. The host brought him a large container of cold water with a very tiny hole to drink of. The lost guy struggled for a while but finally he managed to drink water from the container in matter of hours. After he regained his composer he thanked the host and asked him why he gave him such a container with such a small hole to drink? He answered : You were lost for a long time and you have lost too much salt via sweating, it was dangerous to drink water in excess but I knew I can not force you to drink slowly so I brought this container.
garlic08
03-01-2013, 09:58
...Am I missing something? how has been your experience in real hiking situation? I like to know your take about it.
Here in AZ, I've done a lot of dry hikes, up to 40 miles between water sources repeatedly, and more than that once. I like to think I've gained some experience in carrying water and food for dry conditions.
I don't camel up, other than to drink an extra half liter or so at the source (and bathe, eat, rest, etc, especially if it's been two days). I'll pee an extra couple of times in the next couple hours of walking, and that's just fine. It's very uncomfortable for me to drink more than I need, so I don't do it.
One wake-up situation I had early on in desert hiking was realizing I was eating salty food and I didn't taste the salt. I ate two day's worth of salty crackers, licked the package they came in, and actually used the Ramen flavor packet which I usually discard. I was craving salt and luckily had enough with me to satisfy the craving. Since then, I've carried extra salty stuff in dry conditions.
When I was younger, the common wisdom I adhered to was that one should urinate "clearly and copiously". I've since learned that it's OK to have yellow pee for a while in dry hiking situations. Peeing essentially water is wasting water. You don't want thick, syrupy pee, but a little yellow is fine.
I'm not sipper. Hydration bladders and tubes are not reliable enough for my hiking conditions--how I know that is a longer story. I keep a bottle handy in the side pocket of my pack and drink from that several times an hour.
Colter's done a lot of desert hiking recently--I hope he tells us how he manages it.
DeerPath
03-01-2013, 10:10
Just wondering, will a daily Multivitamin pill replace the lost electrolytes?
fredmugs
03-01-2013, 10:22
Like with most situations it depends. I don't camel up for the sake of cameling up. However factors like the weather, upcoming terrain, future water sources, etc may make me drink my fill.
colorado_rob
03-01-2013, 10:39
Just wondering, will a daily Multivitamin pill replace the lost electrolytes? Nope, sorry. Eat salty snacks or take "E-tabs". Just one other take on this subject: I do regularly "tank up", plumping up those cells as much as possible, usually the night before and in the morning, lots of tea/coffee (yeah, I know caffeine is somewhat counterproductive), then drink fairly modestly during the day's hiking. Just my own modus operandi, and it treats me well.
Just Jack
03-01-2013, 10:40
How much Gatorade or Propel would you have to consume--per liter of water--to keep the electrolytes
in balance. I understand it depends on how hot it is, how hard you are working, how much one is sweating,but,
what would be a good plan for electrolyte replacement?
Alligator
03-01-2013, 10:47
Watch your urine color to judge dehydration but be aware that if you are eating stuff like Clif bars they have vitamins in them that will turn your urine yellow.
I have from time to time looked for articles citing absorption rates but have not been successful. This article (http://www.nols.edu/wmi/articles/archive/hydration.shtml) cites a quarter liter per quarter hour rate and even for some people a quarter liter per 10 minutes rate. That still leaves the question of how long the water lingers meaning is it still available for absorption or is urinated out.
FarmerChef
03-01-2013, 11:00
How much Gatorade or Propel would you have to consume--per liter of water--to keep the electrolytes
in balance. I understand it depends on how hot it is, how hard you are working, how much one is sweating,but,
what would be a good plan for electrolyte replacement?
I don't know the answer to that question. On really hard, hot days I'll mix a bit of gatorade powder in my water to augment the salts already in my gorp and snacks. On most days, I just make a semi-strong cup of gatorade for all of us to drink at dinner. Everyone jokes they have to drink their "pee juice." During the day, our primary salt comes from salted nuts in our gorp. I eat low sodium and it tastes very salty on the trail. Planters really likes to coat their nuts in salt.
MuddyWaters
03-01-2013, 21:59
When I think "camel up", I dont think of 1/2 liter, or even up to a liter when you are really thirsty and dehydrated reaching a water source.
Somewhere between 1 and 2 liters, intentionally in a short period of time, when you are already hydrated well enough, is what I would think of when I think attempting to "camel".
In college, I used to run several miles every day, sometimes more, sometimes less, but always sprinting the last 1/4 mile back home as fast as I could. Id get home, collapse in a beanbag chair on the floor in front of TV, and drink most of a whole 1/2 gallon 40F water from a cold glass orange juice container kept in the refrigerator.
One thing to consider, is everyone is dehydrated in the morning anyway. Early morning pee is usually dark, you havent had anything to drink in 8-12 hrs, all the while losing moisture to respiration and urine buildup. Everyone NEEDs a fair bit of water in the morning before hitting the trail, or they could stay dehydrated much of the day. First thing I generally do every morning at home when I wake up is drink a large glass (~24oz) of water. Then I grab my coffee and head out the door. Certainly not cameling, just replenishing fluids.
I camel up all the time. I think the most I've had is 2 liters. I certainly wasn't at risk of overhydration.
One thing to consider, is everyone is dehydrated in the morning anyway.
On the trail I usually wake up for a drink. Even so, it's not unusual for me to drink a liter of water in the morning before my thirst is quenched.
fiddlehead
03-01-2013, 23:08
I also camel up at water sources.
I watch my pee and if it's not clear, I drink more.
I don't like carrying water.
On the AT, I probably carry water about 50% of the time, depending on when it rained last, where I'm hiking and if I'm going up on a high ridge for a while without coming down. (like in PA in July/Aug)
I eat salty foods when my body craves them.
Here in Thailand, where it's almost always very hot, I'll drink 2 litres before heading out and carry a half litre with me for the next 3-4 hours.
Sometimes I have to find a water source, if not, I get wicked deydrated and have a rough night.
Not saying it's the right way, it's just my way of doing things.
I don't like carrying a lot of water.
What color means you have healthy urine?http://www.urinecolors.com/images/yellow_urine.jpgA light yellow urine color typically signifies a very healthy urine. The light straw yellow urine will have a low odor, few bubbles in the urine, little to no foam, and have a clear urine consistency.
Congratulations, your urine is probably healthy.
Shouldn't healthy urine be clear?While it would seem that the clearer the urine the more healthy, that is not necessarily the case. If your urine color is very clear, it is showing a high concentration of water, and a lower concentration of actual waste. Clear urine (http://www.urinecolors.com/clear_urine_color.php) could mean you are very well hydrated, but a low concentration of waste is not necessarily a good thing. What this means is that you need to pee more in order to get rid the waste your body doesn't need.
There's just too much disinformation in this thread and it's gonna lead to fear mongering. Tanking up, or as I call it "cameling" isn't about taking in "extra" water. You're not stopping and drinking a gallon at a time. I hit a water source, slam a liter and keep moving. Why? Because water is heavy and I hate carrying it! This doesn't mean I'm consuming "extra" water, it just means I'm not sipping as I go...I replenish and move on. Hyponatremia by definition is too little sodium per unit of volume in the extracellular space. Ions are usually measured by mEq/L and the normal serum Na concentration is 135-145. Dip below this range and you're looking at lethargy, confusion, loss of consciousness, coma, seizures, and cardiovascular collapse. In short, it's not good. Low sodium is usually the result of dilutional factors. This is why you hear the term "water intoxication." There's two main fluid compartments within the body, intracellular and extracellular. Intracellular is within the cells, extra is outside of the cells. The extracellular volume is also comprised of compartments, interstitial (between the cells) and intravascular (within vessels...this is your blood). There's also potential spacing but that's not really important here. Ions are also divided up into intra and extracellular. Wherever the ion is most concentrated is where it's considered to be. Sodium is an extracellular ion and correlates directly with chloride ions. NaCl is salt. What's happening with water intoxication related to hiking is people are out in the heat, working themselves, and sweating. Sweat isn't just water, it contains salts. You're essentially oozing salts and fluids out of your body, and then replenishing just the fluids. This dilutes the extracellular Na and leads to conduction abnormalities in the central nervous system...Hence all of the bad things happening with your brain. Unless you have dysfunctional kidneys, some kind of hypoaldosterone pathology, or you consume an insane amount of fluids rapidly, your kidneys aren't gonna spray out Na all willy-nilly. The excessive sodium loss is via sweating. If you and I are both using the same amount of water per unit time, and I camel a liter for the next hour, and you sip your liter for the next hour, it's essentially the same thing. It's still the same volume per unit time. I think you're assuming that "cameling" is drinking an insane amount of fluid in a short amount of time and your body just spills it out. That's not how it works.
"In a normal individual any extra water turns to urine in less than 30 minutes and does not make any real difference in hydration status of the individual." I have no idea where this came from. If I slam a liter of saline in a patient in 15min, they don't pee out a liter within the next 30minutes. IV fluids are going directly to the intravascular compartment, filtered directly through the kidneys...I think you'd be hard pressed to find data that supports that statement.
I'm not down playing the risk of water intoxication...I just want to make it clear that slamming a liter ever so often, versus sipping a liter in the same time isn't going to lead to acute water intoxication. Is it probably "nicer" for the body to sip fluids over time, yah, probably, but are you placing yourself at extreme risk by doing so? Probably not. Most of the stories I've heard about water intoxication or extreme dehydration were totally avoidable. You really do have to work at it to jack up your electrolytes. Also, everyone focuses on how thirsty they feel, no one ever talks about their urine. Urine should be clear yellow...not yellow, not dark yellow, definitely NOT tea colored...clear yellow! If your pee is getting dark, drink more fluids.
"What he said." + Been cameling up,(for this human that means a little less than a liter over appx 5 minutes) and hiking long and hard my whole life. I only carry water when I know there is no more to be had today, which is very rare indeed in the mountains here, (Southern Appalachians). Pee the color of lemonade does not mean dehydration. Clear pee, during hard prolonged exercise will not occur, unless you are making yourself drink way more than you want or need. This wastes electrolytes, energy, time, water, etc. Carrying water makes sense in dryer places. Not so much here.
If you must carry extra fluid, please make it Bourbon or Scotch, and in enough quantity to be shared. Thanks.
Matthikes
04-28-2013, 12:00
Interesting thread. Learn something new everyday.
My take is that just as we can habituate our body to eat more , we can do exactly the same when drinking.In other words if you start to drink say an extra liter of water after breakfast, eventually you will need to drink that extra liter...
On the trail my observation is that folk that use bladders sipping all the way from them, drink (and sweat...) a lot more then I do, yet I don't get dehydrated I just pee and sweat less.
I see this somewhat the same as a guy that is happy to have two beers per night when the next "needs" to have 5 or 10.
The 10 beer a night guy also started with 1 or 2...
An apple a day keeps the doctor away. Fifty apples a day not so much...
Wise Old Owl
04-28-2013, 20:45
Interesting thread... Yes I camel up, 1 liter is easier to carry in one's tummy! but I also carry potassium.
fiddlehead
04-28-2013, 20:46
There's just too much disinformation in this thread and it's gonna lead to fear mongering. Tanking up, or as I call it "cameling" isn't about taking in "extra" water. You're not stopping and drinking a gallon at a time. I hit a water source, slam a liter and keep moving. Why? Because water is heavy and I hate carrying it! This doesn't mean I'm consuming "extra" water, it just means I'm not sipping as I go...I replenish and move on. Hyponatremia by definition is too little sodium per unit of volume in the extracellular space. Ions are usually measured by mEq/L and the normal serum Na concentration is 135-145. Dip below this range and you're looking at lethargy, confusion, loss of consciousness, coma, seizures, and cardiovascular collapse. In short, it's not good. Low sodium is usually the result of dilutional factors. This is why you hear the term "water intoxication." There's two main fluid compartments within the body, intracellular and extracellular. Intracellular is within the cells, extra is outside of the cells. The extracellular volume is also comprised of compartments, interstitial (between the cells) and intravascular (within vessels...this is your blood). There's also potential spacing but that's not really important here. Ions are also divided up into intra and extracellular. Wherever the ion is most concentrated is where it's considered to be. Sodium is an extracellular ion and correlates directly with chloride ions. NaCl is salt. What's happening with water intoxication related to hiking is people are out in the heat, working themselves, and sweating. Sweat isn't just water, it contains salts. You're essentially oozing salts and fluids out of your body, and then replenishing just the fluids. This dilutes the extracellular Na and leads to conduction abnormalities in the central nervous system...Hence all of the bad things happening with your brain. Unless you have dysfunctional kidneys, some kind of hypoaldosterone pathology, or you consume an insane amount of fluids rapidly, your kidneys aren't gonna spray out Na all willy-nilly. The excessive sodium loss is via sweating. If you and I are both using the same amount of water per unit time, and I camel a liter for the next hour, and you sip your liter for the next hour, it's essentially the same thing. It's still the same volume per unit time. I think you're assuming that "cameling" is drinking an insane amount of fluid in a short amount of time and your body just spills it out. That's not how it works.
"In a normal individual any extra water turns to urine in less than 30 minutes and does not make any real difference in hydration status of the individual." I have no idea where this came from. If I slam a liter of saline in a patient in 15min, they don't pee out a liter within the next 30minutes. IV fluids are going directly to the intravascular compartment, filtered directly through the kidneys...I think you'd be hard pressed to find data that supports that statement.
I'm not down playing the risk of water intoxication...I just want to make it clear that slamming a liter ever so often, versus sipping a liter in the same time isn't going to lead to acute water intoxication. Is it probably "nicer" for the body to sip fluids over time, yah, probably, but are you placing yourself at extreme risk by doing so? Probably not. Most of the stories I've heard about water intoxication or extreme dehydration were totally avoidable. You really do have to work at it to jack up your electrolytes. Also, everyone focuses on how thirsty they feel, no one ever talks about their urine. Urine should be clear yellow...not yellow, not dark yellow, definitely NOT tea colored...clear yellow! If your pee is getting dark, drink more fluids.
I agree.
And I "camel up" at water sources and don't carry much water unless I'm desert hiking and have to go 20 miles to the next water source.
Another Kevin
04-29-2013, 01:05
Hmm. I thought I'd responded to this thread, but it must have been another one on the same topic.
If I slam down a liter of water in a few minutes when I didn't start out thirsty, I feel queasy, and hike badly, until I've pissed out the excess. So "cameling up" doesn't work for me.
I hate running out of water, and I'm definitely a sipper. I find if I'm puffing up a mountain, a few sips of water makes my mouth feel a whole lot better, and with my Camelbak I can do that without even breaking stride. So I'll usually start with two litres in that. If I'm not expecting a water source within a few hours, I'll also fill my Nalgene bottle. (I carry one, because once in a while I use it for a hot drink. Recycled beverage bottles won't always take that. Also, if I'm filtering water, it fits my filter.)
Often lately, I find myself hiking in places where the water sources are a very steep quarter- or half-mile off my route. At some point it's less energy just to carry more water than it is to hike down to the water source, refill, and hike back up again.
LoneRidgeRunner
04-29-2013, 01:34
Interesting thread... Yes I camel up, 1 liter is easier to carry in one's tummy! but I also carry potassium.
I tend to drink lots of water..For potassium I carry dried bananas. I usually drink a considerable amount at water sources and refill my containers. BUT..If I am sure I will have more water available before I need it I may not refill my containers. But when in doubt I keep plenty of water on my back too. I would rather carry that weight as to dehydrate.
Never noticed a deer, squirrel, bear, fox, bobcat, or any other critter filling water containers. Figure I'm built enough like them to go a while and a ways between drinks without ill effects. My experience has born this out, though I'm spoiled by the abundant water in the hills hereabouts. When I went for a walk in Big Bend NP I made sure to know the precise locations of water sources before beginning. I also carried a liter which is highly unusual behavior for this creachster.
Never noticed a deer, squirrel, bear, fox, bobcat, or any other critter filling water containers. Figure I'm built enough like them to go a while and a ways between drinks without ill effects. My experience has born this out, though I'm spoiled by the abundant water in the hills hereabouts. When I went for a walk in Big Bend NP I made sure to know the precise locations of water sources before beginning. I also carried a liter which is highly unusual behavior for this creachster.
Never noticed a deer or squirrel ,bear ,fox and any other critter carry a backpack either, or need sleeping bag or shelter. Their big four weight astonishingly zero pound zero ounces. We humans spoiled our body thousands of years ago. It is just too late to regret.
Never noticed a deer or squirrel ,bear ,fox and any other critter carry a backpack either, or need sleeping bag or shelter. Their big four weight astonishingly zero pound zero ounces. We humans spoiled our body thousands of years ago. It is just too late to regret.
Have you ever noticed you never see polar bears in sub-saharan Africa?
We learned to adapt and migrated because we were smart enough to figure out how to stay warm when we get cold and wet. We didn't spoil anything, we used the brains god gave us. Squirrels and Fox don't have that option.
Chaco Taco
04-29-2013, 07:39
When I fill up with water at a spring, I usually down whatever I am carrying. If Im dehydrated, obviously, yes, drink. I carry a 2L platy and a 1 liter Platy waterbottle. Its not really rocket science. Camelling up, I think is more for camp. I usually will carry a nalgene water jug that rolls up in my pack. I have carried 4 liters of water to the top of a mountain to make sure I had plenty for dinner, overnight and morning. Obviously when its hot, this is a good philosophy. Dehydration will be something you will have to confront at some point, probably more than once when hiking. It sucks but just learn from it.