View Full Version : Bleach v. Aquamira Drops
Hiker8250
03-01-2013, 15:16
Hey Everyone,
Starting a thru hike at the end of the month. Obviously, water treatment is very important, but is it true I can just use bleach
to purify my water? If not, what is the most effective/economical Aquamira water purification option?
Feral Bill
03-01-2013, 16:10
No. Bleach is a different chemical that does not kill many pathogens. AM drops are labeled as needing far less wait time.
rocketsocks
03-01-2013, 16:38
I've read somewhere that common household bleach (sodium hypoclorite) is not food grade, and has a high PH of about 12, that's pretty alkaline. Can't seem to find the article I was looking for, but as bad as this MSDS would seem...I'd use Aqua Mira over chlorine. The PH for AM is between 6-7 YMMV
here is a MSDS for sodium hypochlorite household bleach
http://www.mvc.com.ph/pdf/MSDS-Hypo.pdf
http://www.aquamira.com/consumer/aquamira-water-purifier-tablets-12-pack/aquamira_tablet_msds_70060-22-71766.pdf
I used bleach (in the form of Sweetwater Purifier Solution) for years. Worked just fine, though now I'm making the switch back to filters and getting a Sawyer filter.
But back to bleach: it worked fine for me, I never once got sick after thousands of miles of hiking, in both east and west coast states. Could be I just was lucky, or could be the bleach did its job... there's really no way to know.
One thing to keep in mind though, bleach has a shelf life of around 6 months, max, and then it's substantially not as effective at killing stuff (though still quite effective at bleaching clothing, just not as much so). So even for a thru hike, you'd want to replace the bleach about half way through.
rocketsocks
03-01-2013, 17:15
[quote]Could be I just was lucky, or could be the bleach did its job... there's really no way to know.[quote]
That's exactly right, there is so much misinformation out there, for every ten articles out there saying use bleach, there are 10 more saying don't.....you almost have to just look at the product and the numbers ie (MSDS) material safety data sheet, and decide for yourself
That's exactly right, there is so much misinformation out there, for every ten articles out there saying use bleach, there are 10 more saying don't.....you almost have to just look at the product and the numbers ie (MSDS) material safety data sheet, and decide for yourself
Yup, completely agree. It's part of the reason I'm switching from bleach after all these years. I figure it's just a safer bet going with filtered water, even if all my anecdotal experience with bleach is positive. Who knows what the long term exposure risks are.
Neither bleach nor Aqua Mira are 100%. Both kill or neutralize pathogens to some extent though. With bleach there are several studies you can look up to find the effectiveness, and the concentration and conditions used to get it.
rocketsocks
03-01-2013, 18:49
Yup, completely agree. It's part of the reason I'm switching from bleach after all these years. I figure it's just a safer bet going with filtered water, even if all my anecdotal experience with bleach is positive. Who knows what the long term exposure risks are.And no bleachy taste with aquamira. I plan to use a my katahdyn pro filter, and aquamira as a back up, or in addtion too, I really can't afford to get sick, immune issues.
The other problem with bleach as I have posted before is that you have no way of knowing if it is being effective.
The free chlorine degrades rapidly once exposed to the air and to sunlight. The % of free chlorine can degrade by 50% in just one hour of exposure to sunlight.
Most of the info on the web that says to use bleach is aimed at people at home in an emergency situation, not at people hiking the AT.
Is bleach better than nothing? Maybe, but we know its not better than Aquamira.
WingedMonkey
03-01-2013, 19:29
The other problem with bleach as I have posted before is that you have no way of knowing if it is being effective.
The free chlorine degrades rapidly once exposed to the air and to sunlight. The % of free chlorine can degrade by 50% in just one hour of exposure to sunlight.
Most of the info on the web that says to use bleach is aimed at people at home in an emergency situation, not at people hiking the AT.
Is bleach better than nothing? Maybe, but we know its not better than Aquamira.
Why would the bleach be exposed to sunlight?
Why would the bleach be exposed to sunlight?
Almost everybody I have seen that uses bleach keeps it in a little translucent bottle. Every time you pull it out of your pack during daylight it is exposed to sunlight. Think of it this way, if its out of your pack 5 minutes a day for 12 days, that's an hour.
Can you tell by looking at a little bottle of bleach how much free chlorine by % is in it? If not how do you know how much to put in your water?
Like I said its probably better than nothing but not better than Aquamira, and that's what the OP was asking.
And no bleachy taste with aquamira.
I prefer that taste to the taste of AM.
rocketsocks
03-01-2013, 19:55
I prefer that taste to the taste of AM.To medicinal for my taste, but I'm only going by swimming pool swallows, better than Ocean schwallars...yuck! I guess it's an acquired taste...I like chewing Bayer aspirin, buts it's not good for your teeth. Oddly, I do like the smell of bleach though.
rocketsocks
03-01-2013, 20:03
Almost everybody I have seen that uses bleach keeps it in a little translucent bottle. Every time you pull it out of your pack during daylight it is exposed to sunlight. Think of it this way, if its out of your pack 5 minutes a day for 12 days, that's an hour.
Can you tell by looking at a little bottle of bleach how much free chlorine by % is in it? If not how do you know how much to put in your water?
Like I said its probably better than nothing but not better than Aquamira, and that's what the OP was asking.The MSDS's say that AM is stable, while Beach is unstable...due to heat, light, and combining with metals, didn't know about the metal thing, hmm...best not to mix or store in a metal cup or thermos.
Why would you use a chemical when a SAWYER filter is less than $50 and weighs just oz's. Go with the sawyer fikter,,,,,,
If someone is going to use household bleach, then I would suggest they get some chlorine test strips. They weigh nothing and you only need to use one a week to check your free chlorine level. Then you can adjust the number of drops as needed.
I think most people use bleach because it's free. By the time you buy the test strips you could buy Aquamira, so is guess whats the point.
Just know if you use bleach there is no way of knowing if it's doing what you expect it to with out testing.
Dirty Bird 99
03-02-2013, 12:22
Definitely Aquamira, no contest!
Drybones
03-02-2013, 18:55
Why would you use a chemical when a SAWYER filter is less than $50 and weighs just oz's. Go with the sawyer fikter,,,,,,
The Sawyer does not filter out all the bad stuff, they say you still need to treat the water after filtering. You have to do whatever you're comfortable with. I treat only about half the water I use, if I'm up high away from roads and people traffic and it's a small stream I dont treat it at all. If I treat it I use a drop of bleach per cup of water.
SunnyWalker
03-03-2013, 14:57
For AT I plan on using Aqua Mira. You ought to take a look at it. Truly lightweight and effective way to go.
Wise Old Owl
03-03-2013, 15:03
This information comes from Virginia Cooperative Extension
It is becoming increasingly accepted by the scientific community that chlorine dioxide technologies are more effective than iodine and chlorine for reducing the pathogenicity of dirty (soil-laden) waters containing bacteria, and waters containing cysts. Part of the reason is that chlorine dioxide is more effective than iodine at penetrating microbial biofilms attached to soil particles that can harbor large quantities of pathogenic microorganisms.
Water purification using common household chemicals
The most common chemical water purification in the home is done with either chlorine bleach or iodine. If used properly, the water will not be toxic after the use of these chemicals, but may have an odor or taste.
A. Household chemicals used
1. Chlorine Bleach. There are many different types of bleach on the market. Read the label to be sure that sodium hypochlorite is the only active ingredient. Do not use bleach solutions that contain detergents or other chemical components (e.g., scented bleach). If the container has a label warning "not for personal use" it should not be used. Fresh, unopened, liquid laundry bleach contains 5.25% sodium hypochlorite. However, a bottle of bleach which has been open for an extended period of time may lose some of its strength, especially if the container is only partially full.
2. Iodine. Iodine tablets and liquid iodine (Tincture of Iodine) can also be used to purify water. Again, read the label for recommended procedures. Tincture of Iodine usually contains 2.0% U.S.P. iodine. However, there is some variation in this product. In general, iodine has the disadvantage (compared to chlorine) in that it is not as effective over a wide range of pathogens and it imparts taste and a brown tint to the water. Thus, it should be used only when chlorine is not available.
B. Purification Procedure
1. Add the recommended level of the chemical (Table 1) using a clean, uncontaminated medicine dropper or suitable utensil.The following conversions may be helpful in determining the correct amount:
8 drops = 1/8 teaspoon
16 drops = 1/4 teaspoon
32 drops = 1/2 teaspoon
64 drops = 1 teaspoon
192 drops = 1 tablespoon
384 drops = 2 tablespoons (1/8 cup)
3. Stir the chemical thoroughly into the water.
If the water does not have a faint chemical smell after the 30 minute waiting period, add another dose and let it sit for an additional 15 minutes.
4. Allow the water to stand for 30 minutes.
If the water is cloudy, repeat the procedure.
5. Dispense into a clean, sanitized, and tightly capped container, which has been appropriately labeled to indicate its contents.
Table 1. Recommended concentrations of chlorine bleach or iodine products for water purification.
Volume of Water to Be Purified_______Recommended Amount of Chemical
____________Chlorine*(bleach)___Iodine# Tablets____Tincture of Iodine##
1 quart (1 liter)____4 drops__________2 tablets_________½ drop
½ gallon (2 liter)___8 (1/8 teaspoon)__4 tablets_________1 drop
1 gallon (4 liter)___16drops(¼ teasp)__8 tablets_________2 drops
*Fresh, unscented laundry bleach containing 5.25% hypochlorite. If the bleach has been opened for a period of time or is less concentrated, increase the amount added. If the water is cloudy in appearance repeat the procedure.
#Dry iodine tablets.
##Liquid iodine solution. Label concentration of 2.0% iodine. If a tincture of iodine is used with a different stated iodine concentration, the usage level may be calculated as follows: Drops/gal = 80 divided by the % iodine in the concentrated solution.
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MuddyWaters
03-03-2013, 23:16
Neither bleach nor Aqua Mira are 100%. Both kill or neutralize pathogens to some extent though. With bleach there are several studies you can look up to find the effectiveness, and the concentration and conditions used to get it.
AM is 100% if you choose to wait the time required to effectively treat Cryptosporidium.
Bleach, however is not very effective against protozoa.
It is not very effective against Giardia. With a lot, and very long contact times, it might work OK, might not.
Bleach also is completely inneffective agains cryptosporidium at certain stage of its life cycle.
AM is 100% if you choose to wait the time required to effectively treat Cryptosporidium.
Bleach, however is not very effective against protozoa.
It is not very effective against Giardia. With a lot, and very long contact times, it might work OK, might not.
Bleach also is completely inneffective agains cryptosporidium at certain stage of its life cycle.
100%??
Since the initial claims from the bulk supplier for Aquamira Water Treatment were "bacteria, taste and odor", and all testing was done in potable water, the required wait times are appropriately lower than the tablets. The testing for the tablets was conducted to meet the EPA purifier standards in EPA Type II water. This water is kept at low temps, has a high level of turbidity, and organic load to intentionally make chemical treatment more difficult. This is the reason for the 4 hour wait time with the tablets. Under EPA Type II conditions it takes 4 hours to achieve a >99.9% reduction of Cryptosporidium which is the most difficult test organism to kill. If Aquamira Water Treatment was subjected to the same conditions, it would require a 4 hour wait time to kill Crypto as well. Keep in mind that in very few cases would anyone encounter water sources that are even remotely close in difficulty to treat as EPA Type II water.
Thank you again for the opportunity to address your questions and concerns.
Dennis B. Brown
Chief Operating Officer
Aquamira Technologies, Inc.
....
They link to their report. It mentions checking for cysts and oocysts in the digestive system of mice that consumed treated water, but I don't see those results. They show that their mice survived, and that seems to be the reason it passed test. I wouldn't call that 100% effective any more than it has been 100% when hikers didn't treat their water at all and didn't get sick.
http://aquamira.com/consumer/aquamira-water-treatment-drops/using_cysts_final.pdf
Sawyer publishes the number of crypto and giardia that made it past their filter: 0. That's the definition of 100% for me. Sawyer didn't use mice. They went directly to counting.
http://www.sawyer.com/documents/field-micro.pdf
In this test for the military, they concluded that Aqua Mira tabs were...
"Not effective against Giardia cysts and Cryptosporidium oocysts"
And with Aqua Mira drops...
"Not effective against Cryptosporidium oocyst"
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf&AD=ADA475539
Drybones
03-04-2013, 09:54
This information comes from Virginia Cooperative Extension
It is becoming increasingly accepted by the scientific community that chlorine dioxide technologies are more effective than iodine and chlorine for reducing the pathogenicity of dirty (soil-laden) waters containing bacteria, and waters containing cysts. Part of the reason is that chlorine dioxide is more effective than iodine at penetrating microbial biofilms attached to soil particles that can harbor large quantities of pathogenic microorganisms.
Water purification using common household chemicals
The most common chemical water purification in the home is done with either chlorine bleach or iodine. If used properly, the water will not be toxic after the use of these chemicals, but may have an odor or taste.
A. Household chemicals used
1. Chlorine Bleach. There are many different types of bleach on the market. Read the label to be sure that sodium hypochlorite is the only active ingredient. Do not use bleach solutions that contain detergents or other chemical components (e.g., scented bleach). If the container has a label warning "not for personal use" it should not be used. Fresh, unopened, liquid laundry bleach contains 5.25% sodium hypochlorite. However, a bottle of bleach which has been open for an extended period of time may lose some of its strength, especially if the container is only partially full.
2. Iodine. Iodine tablets and liquid iodine (Tincture of Iodine) can also be used to purify water. Again, read the label for recommended procedures. Tincture of Iodine usually contains 2.0% U.S.P. iodine. However, there is some variation in this product. In general, iodine has the disadvantage (compared to chlorine) in that it is not as effective over a wide range of pathogens and it imparts taste and a brown tint to the water. Thus, it should be used only when chlorine is not available.
B. Purification Procedure
1. Add the recommended level of the chemical (Table 1) using a clean, uncontaminated medicine dropper or suitable utensil.The following conversions may be helpful in determining the correct amount:
8 drops = 1/8 teaspoon
16 drops = 1/4 teaspoon
32 drops = 1/2 teaspoon
64 drops = 1 teaspoon
192 drops = 1 tablespoon
384 drops = 2 tablespoons (1/8 cup)
3. Stir the chemical thoroughly into the water.
If the water does not have a faint chemical smell after the 30 minute waiting period, add another dose and let it sit for an additional 15 minutes.
4. Allow the water to stand for 30 minutes.
If the water is cloudy, repeat the procedure.
5. Dispense into a clean, sanitized, and tightly capped container, which has been appropriately labeled to indicate its contents.
Table 1. Recommended concentrations of chlorine bleach or iodine products for water purification.
Volume of Water to Be Purified_______Recommended Amount of Chemical
____________Chlorine*(bleach)___Iodine# Tablets____Tincture of Iodine##
1 quart (1 liter)____4 drops__________2 tablets_________½ drop
½ gallon (2 liter)___8 (1/8 teaspoon)__4 tablets_________1 drop
1 gallon (4 liter)___16drops(¼ teasp)__8 tablets_________2 drops
*Fresh, unscented laundry bleach containing 5.25% hypochlorite. If the bleach has been opened for a period of time or is less concentrated, increase the amount added. If the water is cloudy in appearance repeat the procedure.
#Dry iodine tablets.
##Liquid iodine solution. Label concentration of 2.0% iodine. If a tincture of iodine is used with a different stated iodine concentration, the usage level may be calculated as follows: Drops/gal = 80 divided by the % iodine in the concentrated solution.
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Good info Owl....thanks.
Everyone needs to keep in mind any advise from an extension service, the red cross, FEMA, or any other municipal agency is aimed at emergency use by people in a residential setting.
Hiking is a horse of a different color so to speak. In a household setting It is expected that in an emergency situation one of the only disinfectants available will be bleach, so that is what they recommend. They also assume that the bleach will be stored inside.
I have never read a credible recommendation from anyone involved in non emergency wilderness water treatment that says bleach is a good idea.
All the recommendations for bleach I have read are either based on an emergency management agencies recommendation or based on the personal experiences of a hiker that says they used it and did not get sick. Neither one is a reliable source for picking a water treatment option for hiking.
The military studies are the closest to meeting our requirement's but the military has more stringent requirements than an average hiker. For example in most hiking areas of the U.S. viruses are not an issue. Crypto is very rare on the east coast also. We as hikers also have the ability to pick our water sources with more discretion than the military.
The bottom line is for hiking in north america, any of the main stream commercial products will usually do the job. Which you choose should be based on your individual priorities, such as weight, convenience, expected water sources, etc.
Household bleach is a poor solution compared to any other commercial option. Use it if you must or if you like, but don't try to convince yourself is is just as good or better than the commercial alternatives.
littlefoot33
03-10-2013, 20:45
I am not going to say that this is good and you should do it, but I thru-hiked SOBO last summer, and I would guesstimate that > 2/3 of thru-hikers used bleach. I myself started with a Katadyn pump, then went to AquaMira, then went to bleach (temporarily carrying the pump again in CT-PA due to summer dryness).
Why did we use bleach?
1.) it's light weight
2.) it's cheap (usually free to refill your little eyedropper at a hostel, restaurant, or gas station)
3.) it's available (again, almost all hostels, restaurants, gas stations)
4.) it's simple (no pre-mix balancing acts)
Yeah it tastes a little like pool-water and is probably not great for you. But I did not meet anyone who diligently bleached and regretted it. Just puttin' that out there.
During the course of my two thru-hikes (AT & PCT), I only met three people using bleach while almost everyone else who wasn't using a filter/steripen was using Aqua Mira, if that means anything. Bleach is lighter, cheaper, and easier to use (no mixing) but I've always gone with AM especially after reading http://goo.gl/n90AG
Why would you use a chemical when a SAWYER filter is less than $50 and weighs just oz's. Go with the sawyer fikter,,,,,,
Almost all of the folks that I've seen using filters do not handle or store them with enough care to avoid cross contamination. Therefore, they are not reliable in the long term. Just plopping in a ziplock is not proper care.
Of course, the same can be said of proper care of water bottles, cooking utensils, hands, etc. so it is a personal choice.
For me, using AquaMira both sanitizes the water, and the water bottle. Better chance of getting good water. Filter does NOTHING to clean and sanitize your water container from use to use.
Snowleopard
03-11-2013, 12:44
Bleach works well on viruses but is only effective on bacteria under the carefully controlled conditions of a municipal water supply. Even under carefully controlled conditions it is ineffective on Cryptosporidium (Worcester, MA had crypto in its drinking water when it used chlorination (essentially bleach)). And, as bfayer says:
The other problem with bleach as I have posted before is that you have no way of knowing if it is being effective. ...
swjohnsey
03-11-2013, 21:57
In this test for the military, they concluded that Aqua Mira tabs were...
"Not effective against Giardia cysts and Cryptosporidium oocysts"
And with Aqua Mira drops...
"Not effective against Cryptosporidium oocyst"
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf&AD=ADA475539
But the U.S. military continues to use iodine tablets in the field.
swjohnsey
03-11-2013, 21:58
Bleach works well on viruses but is only effective on bacteria under the carefully controlled conditions of a municipal water supply. Even under carefully controlled conditions it is ineffective on Cryptosporidium (Worcester, MA had crypto in its drinking water when it used chlorination (essentially bleach)). And, as bfayer says:
Most cities continue to use some form of chlorine to treat water.
Most cities continue to use some form of chlorine to treat water.
And they use a comprehensive testing regime to ensure the free chlorine is at the correct level to ensure it is doing its job.
Even people than own a pool test the water to ensure the chlorine is at the correct level.
Using household bleach as a water disinfectant is a crap shoot. Like I said use it if you want, but don't delude yourself into believing it is as good as other commercial alternatives unless you test your free chlorine level.
swjohnsey
03-12-2013, 09:56
Using the recommended doseage of bleach (1 drp/pint clear water 2 drp/pint turbid water) is high enough to ensure residual chlorine. The U.S. Army continues to use iodine for individual and some form of chlorine for treating bulk water (filling water buffalos) in the field. It is liquid, comes in a glass vial and does have a residual chlorine test kit.
Using the recommended doseage of bleach (1 drp/pint clear water 2 drp/pint turbid water) is high enough to ensure residual chlorine. The U.S. Army continues to use iodine for individual and some form of chlorine for treating bulk water (filling water buffalos) in the field. It is liquid, comes in a glass vial and does have a residual chlorine test kit.
Iodine is generally stable as long aso it is kept in an air tight container. If left open it degrades.
And you are correct, when the military uses chlorine it tests it. Hikers don't, in fact they don't even know the chlorine content of the bleach they are using.
You seem to keep arguing that bleach is a good choice for hikers to use for treating water but in fact you have no way of knowing one way or the other if it's working or not.
If you are saying that you understand the risks of using bleach to treat water and you have no problems accepting the risks, I have no problem with that.
Others however need to know the risks and make their own decision without misinformation.
swjohnsey
03-12-2013, 10:36
You don't know if your filter is working. You don't know if Aqua Mira is working. You might as well wave your flashlight over you water as use a Steripen. Personally, I usually don't treat water on the trail. On those rare occassions when I do I use bleach. I have a calibrated nose and can detect residual chlorine.
I feel AM is the only way to go. I have used the Sawyer filters, bleach, and the canister filters in the past and had issues with all of these at one time or another. AM is lightweight, works fairly fast and kills more of the bad nasties in the water than any of the above solutions. Besides, in a pinch, there is always boiling as well..
So your saying bleach works "because I say so". Got it, good argument :screwy:
We know filters and aquamira work because of extensive lab testing. They are both stable methods when used as designed. Bleach is unstable and is not marketed to the public as water treatment for that reason.
swjohnsey
03-12-2013, 11:02
Bleach is chlorine, been used to treat water on a large scale for many, many years. Talk about screwy. Most of the "extensive lab testing" was done by the folks sellin' you this stuff.
Bleach is chlorine, been used to treat water on a large scale for many, many years. Talk about screwy. Most of the "extensive lab testing" was done by the folks sellin' you this stuff.
There have been links posted to two military studies, not by folks selling the stuff, one with over 600 pages of data.
As I have stated over and over again large scale water treatment is tested extensively and does not use household bleach.
I guess I don't understand why you seem to have so much ownership in this issue and why you insist that household bleach is a good choice, when all the data shows that without routine testing its not.
Effective water treatment is not subjective like which pack is better or if tarps are better than tents. Water treatment is objective and measurable. The people that have done the measuring say its not a good option when compared to other products on the market. Why not just accept the facts and move on?
Snowleopard
03-12-2013, 12:05
Most cities continue to use some form of chlorine to treat water.
Worcester now treats municipal water primarily with ozone:
Primary disinfection: ozone
Coagulation/flocculation
Filtration: sand and carbon (coal not activated carbon)
Corrosion control: controlling pH with lime, etc.
Final disinfection: Chlorine. This is used to prevent growth of bacteria during transport and storage. The ozone very quickly decays so doesn't prevent later bacterial growth.
There is also regular water testing for bacteria, lead, etc.
http://www.worcesterma.gov/dpw/water-sewer-operations/water-treatment-plant
I don't know how common chlorination is now; it used to be universal. Just because you smell/taste chlorine in the water no longer means that it's the primary disinfecting chemical.
Another disadvantage of chlorine (bleach) or iodine when there is organic material in the water is that halogenated hydrocarbons will form. Chlorinated hydrocarbons are really nasty compounds and many are toxic or carcinogenic. This is probably more serious for water at your home than hiking water.
swjohnsey
03-12-2013, 13:32
There have been links posted to two military studies, not by folks selling the stuff, one with over 600 pages of data.
As I have stated over and over again large scale water treatment is tested extensively and does not use household bleach.
I guess I don't understand why you seem to have so much ownership in this issue and why you insist that household bleach is a good choice, when all the data shows that without routine testing its not.
Effective water treatment is not subjective like which pack is better or if tarps are better than tents. Water treatment is objective and measurable. The people that have done the measuring say its not a good option when compared to other products on the market. Why not just accept the facts and move on?
Fact seem to be subjective with you. Fact is chlorine was used to treat municipal water supplies for years. It is still used the most common method to treat pool water. The goal is to get a tiny bit of residiual chlorine. A little too much won't hurt you. If you are anal you can get pool testing strips that will give you your comprehensive testing in ppm of residual chlorine. You have your ideas about water treatment and anyone else is wrong. Just move on.
Fact seem to be subjective with you. Fact is chlorine was used to treat municipal water supplies for years. It is still used the most common method to treat pool water. The goal is to get a tiny bit of residiual chlorine. A little too much won't hurt you. If you are anal you can get pool testing strips that will give you your comprehensive testing in ppm of residual chlorine. You have your ideas about water treatment and anyone else is wrong. Just move on.
You keep going back to municipal water supplies, and they test for free chlorine religiously. Hikers don't, in fact I have never seen a hiker test for free chlorine to see if their bleach is working. My facts are not subjective, if you don't test you have no way of knowing if you are properly treating your water when using household bleach. That is not an arguable fact, its just a fact.
Is bleach an option, yes. Is it better than aquamira, no. that was the OPs question.
swjohnsey
03-12-2013, 14:23
They don't test because there is no need. One drop per pint for clear water and two drops per pint in cloudy water is more than enough. Don't forget the Army. Just a hint, if you can smell or taste chlorine in the water there is residual chlorine.
swjohnsey
03-12-2013, 14:25
I have yet to see a filter or Steripen user with a microscope checking to see if his water treatment was effective.
They don't test because there is no need. One drop per pint for clear water and two drops per pint in cloudy water is more than enough. Don't forget the Army. Just a hint, if you can smell or taste chlorine in the water there is residual chlorine.
Not correct. I have decades of experience in managing shipboard potable water systems that includes various treatment systems including chlorine, bromine, and UV, and I can tell you with certainty that smell and taste alone is not a reliable test for safe water or suitable levels of free chlorine.
The Army tells its grunts lots of things that are only half true. It's the military way to only provide enough info to keep them in the fight. I can promise you that the people responsible for providing safe water to the troops test the water properly, and don't just smell it.
swjohnsey
03-12-2013, 15:31
You're on drugs. I can tell you've never been in the field. If you can smell it or taste it there is residual chlorine and probably quite a bit.
swjohnsey
03-12-2013, 15:32
I just bought a pound of calcium hypochlorite, enough to treat about 15,000 gallons of water. Soon as I figure out how to get 10 ppm I will post it up.
Wise Old Owl
03-12-2013, 15:49
Add treatment solutions – chlorine, if you use enough of it for long enough, will kill bacteria and viruses, but not do anything for chemicals and sediment and maybe not all protozoa . Iodine works like that as well, but may offer limited protection against Cryptosporidium. And either makes the water taste somewhere between the flavor of a public swimming pool and some first aid ointment.
Most of the time, in most cases, in most hiking areas – catch that loophole? – a good water filter is all you need. Drop the inlet hose into the water source, pump away on the handle, and let the water from the outlet hose go into your water bladder or other container. It’s pretty safe to drink then.
If you want to go from “pretty safe” to “real safe”, invest in a few drops of chlorine-based treatment solution (http://www.lowergear.com/product.php?id=293) to wipe out anything that’s left. Add a few drops, shake, and let it sit for about 10 minutes to work its magic. Household bleach has the same basic ingredients, but the concentration levels are way out of whack compared to the stuff specifically designed for hiking-related water treatment.
MacGyver09
03-12-2013, 17:00
I hiked in 09. I used bleach in a cleaned-out nasal-spray bottle (opaque white.) I used 3 drops per 20oz. water bottle. I didn't know about the freshness issue with bleach. Starting the Trail, I poured my little supply from our partially-used gallon jug. I refilled it in Damascus at the Baptist Church, whatever they had under their sink in the basement. I stayed in perfect health my whole hike (hiked to Harpers Ferry.) I knew two people who got giardia and had to leave the Trail. Both of them were using Aqua Mira.
You're on drugs. I can tell you've never been in the field. If you can smell it or taste it there is residual chlorine and probably quite a bit.
First there is no reason to get personal. We are just talking water.
Second feel free to pm me and we can compare resumes from both a military and technical point of view. But one way or the other "being in the field" means nothing in a discussion of effective water treatment.
Third the average person can smell chlorine at less than 1 mg/l. So the smell guess is just a guess.
Agree, don't agree, we're all hikers here and all is good.
swjohnsey
03-12-2013, 18:01
And you only need 0.2 ppm of residual chlorine.
Moose2001
03-13-2013, 10:38
Here's a link to a CDC document titled "A Guide to Drinking Water Treatment and Sanitation for Backcountry & Travel Use". No promotion of a way to treat water or trying to sell something. If you are going to treat, you need to know the facts and then decide what works for you. The old "this worked for me so it must be true" argument just doesn't fly.
http://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/drinking/travel/backcountry_water_treatment.html