For all the other trails that require or suggest a bear cannister............

[Different Socks]

For those of you out there that use such miniscule weight packs to carry everything you think you would need for an AT hike, what about all the other trails that require the use of a bear cannister?--doesn't matter the length of the trail. I seen too many times hikers stating they use these light weight packs AND carry so little in them. So if you have all the other gear, clothing and necessities, then possibly stuff all food/snacks/desserts in a cannister, how the hell do you fit it into such small packs? Of course this is me assuming that the packs are small b/c the person isn't carrying very much to begin with.
And if your pack isn't small and can handle the stuffing of the cannister and evrything else, what would you say would be the minmum capacity have to be of the pack size? --2000? 3000? 4000?

[BirdBrain]

This is a rhetorical reply: I struggle with how these people get the low weights they claim. I am not saying they are all false, but I am suggesting some people have bad scales, bad guesses, or are exaggerating to sound as successful as the next guy. Some obviously have it all figured out. I don't.

[bigcranky]

Many of the super ultralight (SUL) lists I've seen are for weekend hikes, and they've pared their gear down to the bare minimum. But some of them do long trails with really light base weights. Once you get your big four down to a few pounds, the rest falls in line pretty quickly. A good solo cuben shelter is well under a pound all in, then add a very light 30-F quilt and a 3/4 CCF pad and an 8 or 10 ounce pack, and that's around 3 pounds for the basic gear. The rest comes down to how uncomfortable (or unsafe) one wants to be -- when it gets too cold, get up and hike.

(Also, I've seen some stories in which the author didn't count the weight of their notebook, pen, and camera by saying they were only carrying those things for the test article and needed photos of the gear. Okaaaaay.)

That's not for me, but it does work for a few experienced hikers. And some of those things, like the Zpacks shelters, look pretty good for AT hiking at a substantial weight savings over "traditional" gear. I suspect if I really wanted to spend some money I could get my 3-season solo base weight closer to 10 pounds from the current ~15. That's not SUL, but it's pretty darn light.

[bigcranky]

Sorry, that didn't address the canister question. There are some pretty light canisters out there, but yeah, I think part of the UL thing is because a lot of Western trails require canisters and it helps to drop weight elsewhere.

[Feral Bill]

This is a rhetorical reply: I struggle with how these people get the low weights they claim. I am not saying they are all false, but I am suggesting some people have bad scales, bad guesses, or are exaggerating to sound as successful as the next guy. Some obviously have it all figured out. I don't. Perhaps the spooky light loads are for optimal conditions, like summer in the mid-Atlantic states and a no or minimal cooking food system. That would make a 10 lb base very easy. Move into shoulder season or longer resupplies and things could change, fast.

[Miner]

First of all, what are you defining as ridiculously lightweight? 10lbs? 5lbs? For me, going 9-10lbs, even in the shoulder seasons when snow is possible, is rather easy with a pack that I can comfortably carry 6 days of supplies. Last year, I did a section hike on the AT from Maine to Mass. that ended in mid October with a 10.8 lbs. baseweight that included 20oz of camera gear. I did have some snow but stayed warm and dry, even when camping away from a shelter.That was using a 17oz ULA CDT backpack which I have also used to carry a bear can internally in the Sierra Neveda. I will say that going any smaller would be impossible to carry a can internally (as it barely fit as it was) unless I used one of those mini-bear cans only good for 2-3 days of food. But when I hiked the PCT, I saw people with even smaller packs attaching the bear can to the top of their packs. That made for an uncomfortably top heavy load, but they suffered through it for 2 weeks until they could ditch the hated can.

[Coffee]

For those of you out there that use such miniscule weight packs to carry everything you think you would need for an AT hike, what about all the other trails that require the use of a bear cannister?--doesn't matter the length of the trail. I seen too many times hikers stating they use these light weight packs AND carry so little in them. So if you have all the other gear, clothing and necessities, then possibly stuff all food/snacks/desserts in a cannister, how the hell do you fit it into such small packs? Of course this is me assuming that the packs are small b/c the person isn't carrying very much to begin with.
And if your pack isn't small and can handle the stuffing of the cannister and evrything else, what would you say would be the minmum capacity have to be of the pack size? --2000? 3000? 4000?

Take this with a grain of salt because I haven't done a shake down yet with my new gear yet. But I have the ULA Catalyst and a custom Bearikade (12 inches). If I put my sleeping bag loosely at the bottom of the pack and then put the canister in vertically, there is still room on each side of the canister for a narrow stuff sack or loose items plus you can put another stuff sack on top of the canister in the extended portion of the pack. Then there are the two side external pockets and the front mesh pocket. The canister does take up a lot of room and the Catalyst is considered a "large" pack among the ultra light crowd.

For those of us who do our local hiking in areas where canisters are not required or needed but also hike in the Sierra Nevada, the size of the pack is a real dilemma because something like the Catalyst is probably too big for local hikes but necessary for hikes in the Sierra. I know many people have more than one pack but I can't justify that with all the money I'm dropping on gear lately!

[fredmugs]

I saw plenty of people on the PCT/JMT with the bear canisters on top of their packs.

[Stink Bug]

I hiked the JMT last September with a BV450 inside my SMD Swift (3400 cu. in). My base weight was around 10lbs, with food for 6 days and water, it was closer to 20.

[Mags]

An about 20 oz CDT pack from ULA (cut it down a bit, get it to 16 oz) or a GoLite Jam (ditto) are lighter packs that carry a bear canister reasonably well.

Not sure of the issue here.

As for the low weights: Experience, knowing what works, gradually filtering in lower gear, taking what I need and nothing more. The experience part is by far the most important part of getting the gear lower.

And knowing when to take heavier gear is also a big part of the equation, too.

[leaftye]

One trick with a bear canister is to hike with it completely empty while strapped to the top of the pack. Food goes inside the pack while hiking.

[rocketsocks]

One trick with a bear canister is to hike with it completely empty while strapped to the top of the pack. Food goes inside the pack while hiking.Is that for weight distribution?, or am I missing something here?

[garlic08]

It would be hard, but not impossible, to carry a bear canister on my 9 oz Gossamer Gear pack. On my PCT hike, the only place so far I've need to carry one, I used a heavier 16 oz pack that fit the canister easily. If I were to re-hike the PCT, I'd use that pack again. It adds less than half a pound to my 8.5 pound base weight.

The wonderment goes both ways. When I see a 60L pack filled with 40 pounds of stuff, I wonder why.

Defining what is ridiculously underweight is easy--it's anyone who is carrying less than you are! Conversely, anyone who is carrying more than you are is an over-burdened dinosaur getting left behind by evolution! It doesn't matter at all what your reference is, it's universally true.

[garlic08]

One trick with a bear canister is to hike with it completely empty while strapped to the top of the pack. Food goes inside the pack while hiking.

Now that's a great trick that should be obvious, but probably isn't. It would immensely improve the packing in a frameless pack, and get the load down lower.

[leaftye]

Is that for weight distribution?, or am I missing something here?

For that and several other reasons.

As you hinted at, a full canister on top of a pack would create a terrible ride.

A full canister on top of a pack is very likely to slide out.

A canister on top of a pack makes packing nearly the same as any other trip, so your routine is nearly unchanged.

Any canister inside a pack takes up a lot of room, room that may not be available.

An empty canister inside a pack is somewhat depressing.

An empty clear food canister might do wonders when trying to yogi some food. :)



It isn't perfect though. It wouldn't work as well for people that already have something strapped on top of their pack. It interferes with an umbrella and poncho.

I'm sure there are more pro's and cons.

[rocketsocks]

For that and several other reasons.

As you hinted at, a full canister on top of a pack would create a terrible ride.

A full canister on top of a pack is very likely to slide out.

A canister on top of a pack makes packing nearly the same as any other trip, so your routine is nearly unchanged.

Any canister inside a pack takes up a lot of room, room that may not be available.

An empty canister inside a pack is somewhat depressing.

An empty clear food canister might do wonders when trying to yogi some food. :)



It isn't perfect though. It wouldn't work as well for people that already have something strapped on top of their pack. It interferes with an umbrella and poncho.

I'm sure there are more pro's and cons.Some good ideas there, especially the yogi fib....like Garlic said, so obvious sometimes it gets overlooked. "The Devils in the details"

[Sandy of PA]

I carry my canister inside my pack vertical so I can get at the food if I run out of snacks. I made my own pack based on the gear I carry, as the volume does not change regardless of amount of food it always rides the same. I use a 650ci Bearicade at 31ozs., fully loaded for up to a week with 2 liters of water, pack weight does not excede 27 pounds.