Safer to sleep near shelters or away from them?

[TSWisla]

I was told that if I slept near a shelter that I would be more vulnerable to bears as they "know to come there for food" rather than sleeping away from shelters, is this true? Also, if a bear is sniffing around your tent at night, do you just stay quiet and pray or do you attempt to scare it off by making some noise or shining a light? Thank you. Sorry for the seemingly stupid questions, this will be my first section hike and I would like to make it back to my children alive! :eek:

[Pingus]

Generally, the camp areas that have the most use (shelters) have the most food aroma around them. That's where the critters are more likely to be, from squirrels to bears. Just my humble opinion but bear scare is way over rated.

[Sir-Packs-Alot]

I agree Pingus - I think the bear scare is overratted as well - the scariest thing really is from the bear's side of things - not ours. If they become too much of a nuisance and have to be euthanized that is.... it's a scary situation for the poor creatures that are just fast learners and finding the highest calorie content they can - where they can. Obviously - concentration is an issue for an animal that's got a sense of smell 2,300 times better than ours - and is smart ... ie - odds less likely to see a bear away from the shelters (especially at busy times of year). Just use approved campsites please!

[Wise Old Owl]

Unless you tie a dead chicken to your foot or sleep with a lot of candy in the bottom of your sleeping bag... the bears are more scared of your hiker funk.

[TSWisla]

I agree that much of this is overblown, but I would like to know what to do if the situation arises. I only plan on using approved areas, but I am trying to decide to camp near or away from shelters. I appreciate your advice. Thank you.

[leaftye]

Also, if a bear is sniffing around your tent at night, do you just stay quiet and pray or do you attempt to scare it off by making some noise or shining a light?

Scare it off.

[Mountain Mike]

In most NF along the trail you are allowed to camp where you please. Just practice LNT. If a bear finds an easy source of food he will return. If you really want to minimize chance of an night time encounter eat before you camp for the night, less smell. If a bear does come around shout, clap your hands, bang pots & most likely it will run away. It even works with the pesky bears in parks out west. Normally enough easier food for them to find.

[SouthMark]

I would like to make it back to my children alive! :eek:

According to the National Center for Statistics, 1980-1983, for every death caused by a black bear, 17 deaths are caused by spiders, 25 deaths caused by (from) snakes, 67 deaths from dogs, and 180 deaths from wasps and bees. On average, fewer than three people are killed every year by the more than 650,000 black bears in America. Surprisingly, Black Bear mothers rarely attack humans when defending their cubs.

You have a 60,000 times greater chance of being murdered than being killed by a black bear.

[leaftye]

According to the National Center for Statistics, 1980-1983, for every death caused by a black bear, 17 deaths are caused by spiders, 25 deaths caused by (from) snakes, 67 deaths from dogs, and 180 deaths from wasps and bees. On average, fewer than three people are killed every year by the more than 650,000 black bears in America. Surprisingly, Black Bear mothers rarely attack humans when defending their cubs.

You have a 60,000 times greater chance of being murdered than being killed by a black bear.

Good intentions, but a bad use of statistics.

80% of United States citizens live in cities where there is virtually no interaction whatsoever between humans and bears. A small fraction of the population goes backpacking, and that small fraction spends a small fraction of the year going backpacking, and that small fraction of time may not even be in bear country.

On the other hand, spiders, dogs, wasps and bees are everywhere. Snakes are less prevalent, but they're in a lot of cities too. Most of those are even kept as pets.

I don't think anyone has put together halfway decent statistics for the threat of dangerous types of interactions.

One statistic that I think is useful enough is that there has never been an attack by a black or brown bear on a group of four or more adult humans, so I think sleeping in a shelter would be safe. A bear may still walk right up to the shelter and steal a pack and food, but it probably wouldn't attack.

[Tipi Walter]

If you're overly worried, take out this air horn---Walmart has them I think.

http://c.shld.net/rpx/i/s/pi/mp/19845/7259780808p?src=http%3A%2F%2Fecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F31Vvv7SaYuL._SY429_.jpg&d=09af69d095b05337f2f4f60441bfe1f40f0bf9b1

[HikerMom58]

According to the National Center for Statistics, 1980-1983, for every death caused by a black bear, 17 deaths are caused by spiders, 25 deaths caused by (from) snakes, 67 deaths from dogs, and 180 deaths from wasps and bees. On average, fewer than three people are killed every year by the more than 650,000 black bears in America. Surprisingly, Black Bear mothers rarely attack humans when defending their cubs.

You have a 60,000 times greater chance of being murdered than being killed by a black bear.

I believe you on the attack piece but what about bears scaring a person to death. I couldn't handle waking up to a bear "mouthing" any part of my body or messing with any of my stuff at night. It would scare me to even realize that a bear was just hanging around.... I'm not alone in being "freaked out" by bears am I? I'm fine with bears seeing me and running away. I not a fan of trying to scare one away and it not acting afraid of me.

[MuddyWaters]

Just sleep with earplugs, and get over the fear of bears.

Even a mouse, will sound like a bear to you in the leaves at night near your tent.

Bears only want your food, if anything. Cant say I blame them.

If I had to eat grubs, berries, and whatever else I could catch or scavenge, Id kill for a snickers.

[prain4u]

I would say there is a difference between being awake--and seeing a bear near camp. (Yes, make noise---hoot and holler. Make a racket).

HOWEVER, if it is night time and a bear is sniffing right outside of your tent/tarp/hammock, I think the strategy has to be a bit different. I invite you to think like a bear for a moment. It is dark out. You are sniffing around for food and SUDDENLY something makes a loud noise and flashes a bright light in your face (temporarily blinding you). It is just a natural reflex for almost any animal to swipe theirr paw at the "thing" that just scared you and flashed a bright light in your eyes (or to get defensive/retaliatory in some way).

Thus, if the bear is RIGHT outside of your tent/tarp--a more subtle and gradual approach of making noise or bringing on some light would probably be in order--as opposed to a sudden and startling approach.

[Old Hiker]

I only heard a bear sniffing outside my tent one time in 500 milkes and that sound stopped everytime I quit whipping my head back and forth, trying to figure out which side of the tent it was on. Turns out it was my beard scratching across my sleeping bag. :eek:


Never saw a living bear in 500 miles : from 29 Feb to 18 May, Springer to Thomas Knob shelter, less time off for injuries. Saw a couple of piles of scat, a few places where rotten logs had been clawed apart for grubs, saw LOTS of pictures, but no real bears.

Decided not to worry.

[68fish]

According to the National Center for Statistics, 1980-1983, for every death caused by a black bear, 17 deaths are caused by spiders, 25 deaths caused by (from) snakes, 67 deaths from dogs, and 180 deaths from wasps and bees. On average, fewer than three people are killed every year by the more than 650,000 black bears in America. Surprisingly, Black Bear mothers rarely attack humans when defending their cubs.

You have a 60,000 times greater chance of being murdered than being killed by a black bear.

Have to agree with SouthMark on this one. I was hiking in SNP last July, and walked up on a mother with two cubs. They were about 75 yards away, we both saw each other at the same time. The mother turned and ran away from me, and the cubs shot up a tree lightning fast. They stayed there for about a minute, mom made a grunting aound, and the cubs came down and ran away with mom.

As others have stated, I too believe the fear of black bears is overrated!! Brown bears or Grizzlies are another story.

[Blissful]

Just use approved campsites please!

The only time you need to use "approved" campsites on the AT is in certain states, state parks, and in the Smokies (shelters). LNT rules apply for other sites. :)

[Blissful]

The only issue with bears are hikers not caring for their food properly. And campfire pits and shelters with trash. Alleviate this and the bear problem is gone.

[Chaco Taco]

I have been "attacked" by a bear. It was my own fault. The approach people take for granted is that we are in their space. Respect it and they wont mess with you. Black Bears typically will go where a good food source is, shelters, campsites near roads and such and then have to be removed or put down because of us. If you get scared at the thought of a bear just hangin around, then dont turn on a headlamp in the middle of the night.

I believe you on the attack piece but what about bears scaring a person to death. I couldn't handle waking up to a bear "mouthing" any part of my body or messing with any of my stuff at night. It would scare me to even realize that a bear was just hanging around.... I'm not alone in being "freaked out" by bears am I? I'm fine with bears seeing me and running away. I not a fan of trying to scare one away and it not acting afraid of me.

[Chaco Taco]

The only issue with bears are hikers not caring for their food properly. And campfire pits and shelters with trash. Alleviate this and the bear problem is gone.
Wow that sounds like something a Ridgerunner would say :-? :D

[max patch]

......

Just use approved campsites please!

huh?

[Chaco Taco]

I agree Pingus - I think the bear scare is overratted as well - the scariest thing really is from the bear's side of things - not ours. If they become too much of a nuisance and have to be euthanized that is.... it's a scary situation for the poor creatures that are just fast learners and finding the highest calorie content they can - where they can. Obviously - concentration is an issue for an animal that's got a sense of smell 2,300 times better than ours - and is smart ... ie - odds less likely to see a bear away from the shelters (especially at busy times of year). Just use approved campsites please! What is deemed as "approved"? Many campsites arent off the trail as much as they should be. They are overused spots that people assume are approved because of their overuse.

[SouthMark]

I was hiking in SNP last July, and walked up on a mother with two cubs. They were about 75 yards away, we both saw each other at the same time. The mother turned and ran away from me, and the cubs shot up a tree lightning fast. They stayed there for about a minute, mom made a grunting aound, and the cubs came down and ran away with mom.

I was watching an episode on the NatGeo channel of America the Wild with Casey Anderson. He was in Maine with some members of the Maine Warden service. They proceeded to remove two cubs form mama bear and Casey was nervous. One of the wardens stated that "not to worry, black bears live by running away".

Twice I came upon a mama bear with cubs and both times she ran them up a tree and proceeded to bluff charge me and then climbed up the tree with them. One actually feel asleep in a big fork of the tree and would wake every few minutes to check on the cubs. I watched them for maybe 30 or more minutes.

[BirdBrain]

The only issue with bears are hikers not caring for their food properly. And campfire pits and shelters with trash. Alleviate this and the bear problem is gone.

Pretty much sums it up in a simple way. problem is people would rather argue location of food than detail their strategy. We should all be on the same side... the Blissful side.

[yellowsirocco]

I have hiked 70% of the trail. I have seen 2 bears during that time. One was at the shelter just off McAfee knob which the bear looked like it was just there for a drink. The other was when I was hiking at the crack of dawn which is when you see all the wildlife anyway. Bears are the boogeyman.

[HikerMom58]

Pretty much sums it up in a simple way. problem is people would rather argue location of food than detail their strategy. We should all be on the same side... the Blissful side.

I agree. The problem is simple, the solution seems impossible. Even though hikers are not being attacked/ killed, we still have a problem with bears. The problem is not overrated. It is what it is. We can't seem to get everyone on ... the Blissful side. :)

[Chaco Taco]

I agree. The problem is simple, the solution seems impossible. Even though hikers are not being attacked/ killed, we still have a problem with bears. The problem is not overrated. It is what it is. We can't seem to get everyone on ... the Blissful side. :)
Its a hiker problem, not a bear problem. Its their habitat

[Tipi Walter]

Where I backpack in the Cherokee and Nantahala national forests we have concerted death squads out roaming the forest to perform what I call "Ethnic Cleansing" of the bear population so the bears I see are very skittish. The hunter's dogs are much more of a nuisance than any bear. They are pretty much abandoned in the woods and glom onto any backpacker they see and will leap into a tent to cower (watch out thermarest) and steal any food you may have sitting out. I had one pull down a food bag hanging low in a tree. If I just abandoned my pet dog in the woods and walked away, I'd be cited by the Rangers. The hunters get a free pass. I realize the GSMNP is a different situation as the bears there aren't killed so often.

[flemdawg1]

Bears are known to routinely use the trail as a walking path as well. If you are near it camping, chances are a bear will find it, most however avoid humans.

Camp at the shelters or not due to other factors (convenience of tables water sources & prives, social scene, avoid rodents & crowds) bears aren't a significant enough reason to influence the choice.

[HikerMom58]

Its a hiker problem, not a bear problem. Its their habitat

I agree with you 100%.. the bears are fine!! It's our behavior that caused all the problems. I don't know how we can "fix it" b/c we can't control what every hiker does with their food, out there. Soooo, we all have to deal with the consequences. It's not proving to be a particular easy thing to deal with.....maybe part of the solution will be to require everyone to carry bear canisters, at all times. Someone has already suggested that....

[tiptoe]

In general it's best to avoid shelters within a mile or two of roads, but other than that, I generally hang my hammock where I end up within a couple of hours of sunset. If you deal with your food sensibly, odds are that bears and other critters won't be an issue. Until you get comfortable in the woods, you might be happiest at or near shelters in the company of other hikers.

[BirdBrain]

I agree with you 100%.. the bears are fine!! It's our behavior that caused all the problems. I don't know how we can "fix it" b/c we can't control what every hiker does with their food, out there. Soooo, we all have to deal with the consequences. It's not proving to be a particular easy thing to deal with.....maybe part of the solution will be to require everyone to carry bear canisters, at all times. Someone has already suggested that....

Therein lays the real threat. I don't want to have to be forced to carry a bear canister. That will be mandated someday if current attitudes remain. It is much more productive to educate people on good ways to minimize opportunities for bears to get human food, than it is to criticize each other. It will matter little if you are right or wrong when some politician forces you to carry extra weight. The perception of the rule maker is more important than snide remarks driven by comfort zones.

Personally, I will be hanging my food properly using the pct method. Yes it is overkill, but if it is done right it will give a zero chance of the bear getting the food. I think any reasonable person would agree that is the goal. I too agree: The bears are fine. We are the problem.

[RED-DOG]

When i camp i stay away from the shelters, if you sleep beside a shelter, why not go ahead and sleep in the shelters, Bears use the shelters as a food resource and i have also walked in on sleeping bears in the shelters.

[HikerMom58]

Therein lays the real threat. I don't want to have to be forced to carry a bear canister. That will be mandated someday if current attitudes remain. It is much more productive to educate people on good ways to minimize opportunities for bears to get human food, than it is to criticize each other. It will matter little if you are right or wrong when some politician forces you to carry extra weight. The perception of the rule maker is more important than snide remarks driven by comfort zones.

Personally, I will be hanging my food properly using the pct method. Yes it is overkill, but if it is done right it will give a zero chance of the bear getting the food. I think any reasonable person would agree that is the goal. I too agree: The bears are fine. We are the problem.

No matter what I do with my food. I will make sure that it doesn't attract bear at all. If I can be convinced that the odor proof sacks work well, I might try that and keep the food with me in my tent. Not for sure about that yet...

When i camp i stay away from the shelters, if you sleep beside a shelter, why not go ahead and sleep in the shelters, Bears use the shelters as a food resource and i have also walked in on sleeping bears in the shelters.

Have you really walked up on a bear sleeping in the shelter? Wow,... I have never heard anyone share that before, although I don't see why the bears wouldn't, sleep in the shelters sometimes. :cool:

[RED-DOG]

Yes Hikermomkd i have actually walked in on sleeping bears inside the shelters,and i also been awaken by bears trying to get inside shelters, thats another reason i only use shelters in crappy weather and when i do use the shelters i stay on the top bunk if equiped with one, so don't think that the shelters are a safe haven cause their not.

[Chaco Taco]

Old Walnut Mtn Shelter is notorious for bears taking refuge in it


Yes Hikermomkd i have actually walked in on sleeping bears inside the shelters,and i also been awaken by bears trying to get inside shelters, thats another reason i only use shelters in crappy weather and when i do use the shelters i stay on the top bunk if equiped with one, so don't think that the shelters are a safe haven cause their not.

[HikerMom58]

Yes Hikermomkd i have actually walked in on sleeping bears inside the shelters,and i also been awaken by bears trying to get inside shelters, thats another reason i only use shelters in crappy weather and when i do use the shelters i stay on the top bunk if equiped with one, so don't think that the shelters are a safe haven cause their not.

I hear ya RED-DOG.


Old Walnut Mtn Shelter is notorious for bears taking refuge in it

I know about that shelter 2, I didn't know they liked to get in it, tho. :) I stayed there. When I was there, 2 really cool section hikers were hiking with us. We were hiking with another really cool guy 2. It was at that shelter that I accidentally hug my clothes bag instead one of my food bags on the bear cable. The guys would not let me live it down. They were laughing hysterically at me.:D No sign of bears at all when we were there, in 2010.

[Slo-go'en]

Most of the bears are down in the valley raiding dumpsters, garbage cans and bird feeders...