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Crusinsusan
03-07-2013, 01:09
Okay, I'm going nuts trying to find a bag, and I'm going to have to ask one, particular question at a time to get educated:

So, for a thru AT hike, do you prefer down or synthetic and why? And if down, what precautions are necessary to keep it dry? (I've had wet down bags while car camping, and can't imagine lugging them.) And if synthetic, just how many times to you get away with compressing it before it's useless? (I've read this is what happens when compressed again and again.)

And down to what temp? (Okay, that's more than 1 question, I admit, but it does keep it specific.)

I've managed to get nearly everything else I need, but this is stumping me....and not just on the down vs. synthetic thing....but other questions will shake things down more for me....and I bet, others.

Mountain Mike
03-07-2013, 01:28
Down. Much lighter. 20 -30 degree on how you sleep. If you are worried about keeping it dry look into weather resistant shell. Two places not to skimp on a thru are your sleeping bag & shelter. You will be using them for FIVE MONTHS! It's worth it to buy quality gear here.

Lone Wolf
03-07-2013, 05:27
20 deg. cats meow synthetic. 5 thru-hikes with it

JAK
03-07-2013, 07:40
For a summer bag the weight savings is less, but the cost difference should be less also, if you find the right bargain. One practical advantage of a good down bag is you can go with a Spring/Fall bag that is still light weight and packable enough for summer use. I got a 40oz down bag at Marden's in Houlton Maine for $50, rated to 20F I think. It's a good fit, and nests inside 10F 3.5 pound synthetic bag for winter camping below 0F. So I have two bags for year round, not ideal, but versatile enough and cheap. Actually the synthetic bag wasn't that cheap, but it's paid for.

bigcranky
03-07-2013, 10:12
Down. Temp rating depends on when you want to start. For a mid-March start, 20-F is fine. For early Feb, I'd want a 0-degree bag.

Keeping it dry is really not that hard.

bfayer
03-07-2013, 10:26
Virtually all of the newer down bags from quality manufactures have a DWR coating. So unless you dunk your down bag into a stream or sleep in the rain, it's hard to get the down very wet. Can it happen? Yes but with a little common sense it's not that hard to keep a quality down bag dry.

The only time I worry (worry is too strong a word) is when sleeping in shelters when its raining. In that case I just slip my rain shell over my foot box to keep the splash off the bag, and that is only in smaller shelters where splashing or wind driven rain is an issue.

I vote for quality down.

BirdBrain
03-07-2013, 10:27
Down if you have confidence/ability to keep it dry & if weight/packablility is primary concern.

Synthetic is you are confident you will get it wet & and your budget is way too tight.

I have a synthetic, but the more I read, the less I am confident about that choice.

moldy
03-07-2013, 10:29
If the price were the same, most hikers would choose down. For thru hike conditions down is lighter and keeps you warmer and dryer. On your thru hike that wisely avoids the worst of Winter and starts around the first of April a 20 degree bag is the rating that will get you all the way to Maine. It will keep you warm enough in April and May and it won't me much of a problem for being too warm in June and July and it will be warm enough for the White's in August and Maine in September. Some people swap out the 20 degree bag for a 40 degree bag in June and July then swap back when it cools off to save weight. For a thru hike that you keep the same bag a 20 degree bag is best. If I were to buy a new bag, I would go to the outfitter store with my backpack to make sure that my bag choice fits inside my pack. This can be a problem that does not get mentioned here very often. Some bags will not fit into medium sized backpacks. The 2 sleeping bags I own are a 40 degree down and a 20 degree synthetic and the choices were driven by price.

Kerosene
03-07-2013, 10:42
A high-quality, 20-degree down bag. I have the Western Mountaineering UltraLite (http://www.westernmountaineering.com/index.cfm?section=products&page=Sleeping%20Bags&cat=ExtremeLite%20Series&ContentId=17), which weighs in at 26 ounces (the newer ones are a few ounces heavier). I pack it in a plastic trash bag inside a Cuben fiber stuffsack at the bottom of my pack. I've never had a problem with it getting wet, but it will get damp in humid climes and should be re-lofted by letting it dry in the sun for a bit. On the AT, a 20-degree bag should be sufficient for a March NOBO hike until after Memorial Day, and then again once you get to the Whites. I also have the WM HighLite (http://www.westernmountaineering.com/index.cfm?section=products&page=Sleeping%20Bags&cat=ExtremeLite%20Series&ContentId=16) (35-degrees, 16 oz) for warmer temps.

capehiker
03-07-2013, 10:45
A wet bag is a wet bag. I've experienced both. Neither feels better than the other when wet. Taking water out of the equation, I prefer down. For me, it just feels better. Lighter and more freeing. Just my humble $.02

Blissful
03-07-2013, 10:50
20 deg. cats meow synthetic. 5 thru-hikes with it

This is a good bag (my son used it ) but you can't be a big guy or you won't fit in it.

I liked the compressibility and water repellency of the Montbell down bags. If you keep it tucked in a good waterproof sack and take care in wet weather, it does well.

burger
03-07-2013, 10:57
Down is lighter, so if weight is your number one consideration, go with down.

But down loses loft (and insulating power) when it gets wet. Your body releases water constantly, even if you're not noticeably sweating, so your bag will gradually accumulate moisture over the course of several nights. That's why it's important to dry your bag in the sun every day.

The problem on the AT is that you can go days at a time without seeing the sun or even without getting a couple of dry hours. In these circumstances, your bag will not dry and will start to lose loft. If your bag is warmer than you need (i.e. you have a 20 degree bag and the nights are only in the 40s), then you're probably fine. But if you are pushing the limits of your bags temperature and you can't keep it dry, you will be cold. This could easily be the case in spring and fall. That's why I would only take a synthetic bag on a thru-hike. I've used synthetic and down on section hikes, and I could never regularly dry my down bag. YMMV.

BirdBrain
03-07-2013, 11:10
Your body releases water constantly, even if you're not noticeably sweating, so your bag will gradually accumulate moisture over the course of several nights. That's why it's important to dry your bag in the sun every day.

The problem on the AT is that you can go days at a time without seeing the sun or even without getting a couple of dry hours..

Is this less of an issue in synthetic? Don't you release water constantly in synthetic too? Again, I have a synthetic, but am feeling less comfortable with that choice.

jeffmeh
03-07-2013, 12:24
Is this less of an issue in synthetic? Don't you release water constantly in synthetic too? Again, I have a synthetic, but am feeling less comfortable with that choice.

Synthetic does not lose as much loft when it gets wet, so it stays closer to its initial insulating value than a similarly wetted out down bag. Neither is pleasant, and I prefer down. It really is not that difficult to keep it dry. Even if you are rained on for days and cannot air it out, throw it in a dryer (with a tennis ball or two if you can) the next time you hit town to resupply.

RED-DOG
03-07-2013, 12:30
I prefer Synthetic cause once down gets wet it's useless.

burger
03-07-2013, 12:39
Is this less of an issue in synthetic? Don't you release water constantly in synthetic too? Again, I have a synthetic, but am feeling less comfortable with that choice.Like someone else said, synthetic insulation does not lose much loft at all when wet and will still keep you warm.

Why be uncomfortable with synthetic? The only real drawback is weight, and the weight penalty is not that much for the weight of bag you'd need on the AT.

colorado_rob
03-07-2013, 12:58
Why be uncomfortable with synthetic? The only real drawback is weight, and the weight penalty is not that much for the weight of bag you'd need on the AT. Not quite: synthetic bags are also much bulkier. I've backpacked for 40 years, spent literally thousands of nights in a tent, ALWAYS with a down bag, never had complete failure of warmth, and only had partial failure a couple of times.

BirdBrain
03-07-2013, 13:04
Not quite: synthetic bags are also much bulkier. I've backpacked for 40 years, spent literally thousands of nights in a tent, ALWAYS with a down bag, never had complete failure of warmth, and only had partial failure a couple of times.

Even at the minimal definition of thousands, that means about 1 out of every 10 nights of your life was spent in a tent. That is quite an impressive resume and one that should command respect.

colorado_rob
03-07-2013, 13:34
Even at the minimal definition of thousands, that means about 1 out of every 10 nights of your life was spent in a tent. That is quite an impressive resume and one that should command respect. Sounds sarcastic, not sure, but in any case my math says more like 1 in 20, and that's about right, over the long haul. These days it's 70-100 nights a year (one night in 3 or 4) in a tent (more like 150 this year, assuming I hang on this AT attempt). Over the 45 years, it's probably half that on average. That makes my total nights in a tent somewhere in the mid 1000's (maybe 1500-1700, real rough guess). So yeah, maybe "thousands", implying two or more "thousands" might be a bit high, sorry. My conclusion remains: buy down, save weight and bulk, keep it dry (it's not that hard), you're good to go.

BirdBrain
03-07-2013, 13:41
Sounds sarcastic, not sure, but in any case my math says more like 1 in 20, and that's about right, over the long haul. These days it's 70-100 nights a year (one night in 3 or 4) in a tent (more like 150 this year, assuming I hang on this AT attempt). Over the 45 years, it's probably half that on average. That makes my total nights in a tent somewhere in the mid 1000's (maybe 1500-1700, real rough guess). So yeah, maybe "thousands", implying two or more "thousands" might be a bit high, sorry. My conclusion remains: buy down, save weight and bulk, keep it dry (it's not that hard), you're good to go.

Sorry. No sarcasm meant. I am truly impressed with the wealth of experience on Whiteblaze. It is why I am here. I can see how you could gather that. It was not my intent. I took your comment at face value.

Please let me be more clear as to the intent of my comment: I too am struggling with the down synthetic debate. The exact number of times you slept in a tent is not the issue. I listed it too expand on what that actually meant and the level of experience you have on the subject. Regardless of the amount, it speaks volumes to me when I have the opportunity to hear advice from someone who has done the deed as many times as you have.

Prime Time
03-07-2013, 14:32
i've used a down bag for 40 years. Lighter, cozier, less funk, less bulky. No problems keeping it dry, I've just been careful. I tried a synthetic bag for 1 season and it has since hung in my gear graveyard for 25 years.

Mags
03-07-2013, 14:46
To quote Garlic ""Down is always better..except when synthetic is better"." :)

On the Appalachian Trail, though it can be cold and wet, it is relatively easy to keep gear dry AND dry out gear in the every 3-5 days most ATers go into town.

Out on coastal Alaska for 2 weeks? I may actually consider synthetic due to all the humidity and no chance of drying out the bag. (Not that I am doing a trip like that any time soon... :) )

Having said that, I have not used a synthetic bag since I started backpacking. A good stuff sack, a garbage bag and an additional garbage pag for a pack liner has helped me through the years.

Venchka
03-07-2013, 14:47
I own 3 bags: 2 down, 1 synthetic. I have never used the synthetic bag. I have loaned the synthetic bag to my daughter (8th grade field trip) and will do the same for her kids.
The only advantage that I can see for a synthetic bag on an AT Thru hike is being able to toss it in a front loading washing machine and dryer at a laundromat to de-funk it occasionally. That is not reason enough to get me to lug my synthetic bag in a backpack. A canoe trip, sure. Hiking or biking, no way.

Wayne

bfayer
03-07-2013, 16:23
Out on coastal Alaska for 2 weeks? I may actually consider synthetic due to all the humidity and no chance of drying out the bag. (Not that I am doing a trip like that any time soon... :) )
.

Alaska is the only place I have been glad to have a synthetic bag. But then again in Alaska "dry" is just a theory.

Wise Old Owl
03-07-2013, 16:47
Is this less of an issue in synthetic? Don't you release water constantly in synthetic too? Again, I have a synthetic, but am feeling less comfortable with that choice.

You sweat or expire a cup of water each night.. if you pull the bag and hang it each morning while you make breakfast and break camp, its a non issue. Can't be done everyday, but I recommendyou store it in a sil dry bag when hiking.

Glogg
03-07-2013, 19:58
...The only advantage that I can see for a synthetic bag on an AT Thru hike is being able to toss it in a front loading washing machine and dryer at a laundromat to de-funk it occasionally. That is not reason enough to get me to lug my synthetic bag in a backpack. A canoe trip, sure. Hiking or biking, no way.Wayne

One can toss a down bag into a laundromat dryer on LOW heat and give it 15 or 20 minutes; it will get everything toasty dry and help remove funk as well.

1234
03-07-2013, 20:12
synthetic bag new, 15-20 degree? long,? just would not fit in my pack, it was just not compressible enough. 65 l REI flash pack. I use zero degree 800 down and it stuffs SMALL. I carry a lot of food 7 days worth at a time and it requires space. So what size is your pack will it hold the bag you choose. At first try it will never all fit. Small light + more $$ for most items. pepsi can stove is the exception. free, and light.

Crusinsusan
03-07-2013, 21:58
Hey, thanks everyone...very helpful....today I've decided on down. But we'll see. I'm seriously considering the Western Mountaineering Sycamore MF.

Thanks again.

Tinker
03-08-2013, 08:25
One can toss a down bag into a laundromat dryer on LOW heat and give it 15 or 20 minutes; it will get everything toasty dry and help remove funk as well.


I'll take this opportunity to note that heat can cause more damage to synthetic insulation than down.

Why?

Because the loft (bulkiness) of synthetic insulation is created by crimping the fibers (polyester) using heat, turning a straight fiber into a highly kinked one which is then usually integrated into a thick mat (thickness varies on intended temperature rating) by a bonding process using various resinous adhesives.

So?

Intense heat (over 150 degrees or so) can cause the fibers to relax which straightens them out and reduces loft.
This can happen in a clothes dryer if you have the heat too high.
Do not use the high setting when drying your synthetic bag.

Also: Do not leave your synthetic bag (any bag actually, but especially synthetic) in its stuff sack for extended periods of time.
This compacts the fibers, reducing loft.

Never, ever leave your synthetic bag in its stuff sack in a car trunk (or inside with the windows up and a/c off) on a hot day.

Always store your sleeping bag, synthetic or not, uncompressed - hanging is best, laying on a shelf is next, in the cotton storage sack it came with is fine, too.

Using a compression sack is entirely up to you, but with any bag (again, especially synthetic), you will be shortening the life of the bag by compressing it more than is recommended by the bag's manufacturer, and more than the physical properties of the insulation can take without damage.

Last note: A number of tightly packed stuff or storage sacks in your pack will leave unused air gaps between them.

It's best, as a space saving and insulation friendly habit to view your entire pack as a stuff sack, using large plastic, nylon, or cuben fiber sacks to hold your gear so you don't get the "pack full of bowling balls" effect which wastes space inside your pack and, in the case of frameless packs, feels very strange and uncomfortable on your back.