Add food/water and your pack weighs?

[Different Socks]

First off, this is a serious post, not a troll......now continue reading if still interested.

Many, many, many of you that post here claim to have packs with a base weight of anywhere between 12--18 pounds. This brings about a question that I've wondered for some time: If base weight is without water and food, and a hiker is out for 5 days hiking to the next town stop, what exactly do you carry in regards to food that allows you to continue claiming your packs weight is still rather low?

Please, let's see some posts from people that eat well, have variety, enjoy baked desserts, have plenty of snacks, meats/veggies for their dinners and/or lunches, oil or butter for dinners/breakfasts, parmesan cheese, condiments, block cheeses, powdered drink packets, breads/tortillas/bagels/crackers, cream cheese, hot sauce, soy sauce, snacks, sweets, gorp, trail mix, etc.

I am asking nicely that those of you that don't cook any meals, therefore did not require pans or fuel and stove, and those of you that eat the same thing every 5 days, AND those of you that are comfy with eating ramen day after day, please do not answer this post.

To help with answering the question I will illustrate what I would pick from to carry for 5 days of all meals and snacks.

Breakfast Lunch

--granola bars --Spam/meat bar w/crackers and cheese
--trail mix --dried salsa w/chips/crackers/pretzels
--powdered eggs --Bagel/tortilla/bread with cream cheese/jelly/honey/peanut butter
--oat meal --gorp/trail mix
--nutri-grain bars --pretzels/crackers/chips with cream cheese/honey/peanut butter
--fig bars --variety of nuts
--dried fruit --dried fruit

Desserts

--pop tarts
--pudding/jello cups or instant
--baked brownies/cookie bars/muffins/cakes/corn bread--bought in a store or prepared on the trail
--Little Debbies
--candy bars
--cookies
--frosted granola bars
--no bake cheese cake
--fig bars
--variety of nuts
--gorp

Dinners--for 5 days(note: the 5 days following these meals would be 5 totally different meals)

--dehydrated chili w/pasta --pasta w/olive oil, dried veggies and dried meat
--couscous w/dried veggies and dried meat --Lipton dinner with dried veggies and dried meat
--ramen w/dried veggies and dried meat

Needed extras

--olive oil --breads --powdered milk
--parmesan cheese --hot sauce
--salt and pepper --powdered drinks

This does not include donuts or baked goodies picked up in town. And to be clear, this is not exactly what I carry for 5 days, it is just an example of what the choices are of what I could carry.

I am not looking for answers like mine, yet I wonder what do others carry, what do they eat to sustain the calorie intake, and how do they manage to keep the weight of the pack down? I am sure there are posts out there somewhere that state that they indeed are able to keep their weight down low even with dinners/breakfasts/snacks/lunches for 5 days. But how do they factor in all the add-ons: Breads, condiments, powders for drinks, cream cheese, other cheeses, honey, peanut butter, crackers, etc.

Looking forward to your answers and please no replies that are full of opinions of why it should be done this way or that way.

Thank you.

[leaftye]

I don't count food weight because food weight is what it is. When I'm pack and ready to head out, it does me no good to weigh the pack because I'm definitely not going to remove food or water that I know I need. I'm not going to add food either because I'm already at the limit of what I can eat. The only time food weight matters is when I'm grocery shopping or designing my trail menu.

My 4500 calories a day weighs about 2 pounds. I'm not sure on the weight because I looked at calorie density and macronutrients. I measured my food out with a scoop. The final weight is what it is. My long distance trail hiking non-cook diet is a custom liquid meal and trail mix.

[Lone Wolf]

i don't weigh my stuff. i just walk the stuff i want

[Mountain Mike]

To me food is one of the few rewards on long hikes. Long term hiking takes fuel=food. I'm sure if you, LW & me showed up on Springer Mt, most people would say we don't have a chance to make it. Some gear get lighter over the years thanks to tech stuff. I may be old school but not stupid. But pop tart vs scrambled eggs for breakfast. Or fresh baked biscuits. HYOH, just don't drool om my food.

[Lone Wolf]

To me food is one of the few rewards on long hikes. Long term hiking takes fuel=food. I'm sure if you, LW & me showed up on Springer Mt, most people would say we don't have a chance to make it. Some gear get lighter over the years thanks to tech stuff. I may be old school but not stupid. But pop tart vs scrambled eggs for breakfast. Or fresh baked biscuits. HYOH, just don't drool om my food.

generally the first 3 days it's bacon and eggs for breakfast

[Mountain Mike]

generally the first 3 days it's bacon and eggs for breakfast
My point exactly. I tried cold cereal/pop tart routine. Lased a few days. Ramens are nice for a chili day's lunch or appetizer.

[JAK]

The less the gear weighs the easier it is to carry the food I like.

[Wolf - 23000]

Well 12 pounds is my total weight, not my base weight. Just as I am leaving town sometimes I'll ask at the Post Office how much I am carrying everything included. Yes I do cook - one meal a day. I'm not a great cook but it is food.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with JAK - no intentions to start any type of war. One of the problems I run into is my food is about 90% of my total pack weight . Compare to the weight of my food my equipment weight is very little yet my food sits in my pack like a rock. After the first day or so it not to bad. It is just something I've always try to work on. I just picked up a couple new packs that I can't weight to try out.

Wolf

[Different Socks]

To me food is one of the few rewards on long hikes. Long term hiking takes fuel=food. I'm sure if you, LW & me showed up on Springer Mt, most people would say we don't have a chance to make it. Some gear get lighter over the years thanks to tech stuff. I may be old school but not stupid. But pop tart vs scrambled eggs for breakfast. Or fresh baked biscuits. HYOH, just don't drool om my food.

Nice to hear! Thank you

[HikerMom58]

Good quality food is important to me on the trail. Our dehydrator is humming for weeks before our trip. All the dinners I carry just needs boiling water added to it. We do all the "cooking" at home before our trip so we can enjoy healthy home- cooked meals out on the trail. You can find great tastin dehydrated fruits and veggies all ready prepared for snacking. Yumm...

[JAK]

Well 12 pounds is my total weight, not my base weight. Just as I am leaving town sometimes I'll ask at the Post Office how much I am carrying everything included. Yes I do cook - one meal a day. I'm not a great cook but it is food.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with JAK - no intentions to start any type of war. One of the problems I run into is my food is about 90% of my total pack weight . Compare to the weight of my food my equipment weight is very little yet my food sits in my pack like a rock. After the first day or so it not to bad. It is just something I've always try to work on. I just picked up a couple new packs that I can't weight to try out.

WolfThat's a good point. Food weight will go down. Equipment weight stays same, or goes up if damp.

How much is your clothing weight, say if the coldest you plan for is 30F?
Do you use the strategy of hunkering into sleeping bag whenever you need to rest in the cold?
Do you move faster in the cold, or same steady pace?

[Blissful]

Good quality food is important to me on the trail. Our dehydrator is humming for weeks before our trip. All the dinners I carry just needs boiling water added to it. We do all the "cooking" at home before our trip so we can enjoy healthy home- cooked meals out on the trail. You can find great tastin dehydrated fruits and veggies all ready prepared for snacking. Yumm...


Yes I actually just blogged (http://www.blissfulhiking.com) on this on how to dehydrate veggies and meats to add to dinners. A pet peeve of mine is the lack of hiker nutrition which I believe can contribute to the lack of finishing one's hiking goal. Ex - You pull a muscle. You have little or no protein or vitamins from food but empty carbs (and lack of first aid knowledge also). Healing gets delayed. You get frustrated. Or you reinjure it. You get off the trail.

[Tipi Walter]

Good quality food is important to me on the trail. Our dehydrator is humming for weeks before our trip. All the dinners I carry just needs boiling water added to it. We do all the "cooking" at home before our trip so we can enjoy healthy home- cooked meals out on the trail. You can find great tastin dehydrated fruits and veggies all ready prepared for snacking. Yumm...

Yup, totally in synch with this. In fact, my TSM 5-tray dehydrator is almost finished cranking out a standard load of food for me for my next 2 week trip in March---this month. Right now I'm drying a fruit leather blender drink of a base of pineapple/coconut juice with several tablespoons of almond butter, a large handful of almonds, blueberries and a couple peeled apples. It makes for a nutty chewy fruit-based leather which is good on the trail.

For my March trip I have dried---
** frozen organic broccoli florets
** frozen/cooked butternut squash (very good with pasta meals for thickening)
** tomato soups like Dr McDougall's in a box
** Imagine quart boxed soups like butternut squash soup, sweet potato soup, mushroom soup, broccoli soup.
** Wildwood baked tofu cut in strips and dried like jerky
** a whole box of spaghetti cooked at home with 2 jars of sauce and the whole wad dried---will provide 7-9 days of cooked meals on the trail.
** Amy's frozen mac and cheese thawed and dried. It's already cooked in the box.
** Etc.
** Oh, and four meals of cooked and then dried quinoa.

Along with these cookables I bring a snackables bag full of no-cook foods like goat cheese and butter, honey, raisins, granola, a variety of meal bars, nuts, cashew butter, etc etc.


Yes I actually just blogged (http://www.blissfulhiking.com) on this on how to dehydrate veggies and meats to add to dinners. A pet peeve of mine is the lack of hiker nutrition which I believe can contribute to the lack of finishing one's hiking goal. Ex - You pull a muscle. You have little or no protein or vitamins from food but empty carbs (and lack of first aid knowledge also). Healing gets delayed. You get frustrated. Or you reinjure it. You get off the trail.

All backpackers would be served to read these two quotes on backpacking food loads---

WIKIPEDIA QUOTE ON UL BACKPACKING
"Ray Jardine suggest 2.5 lbs of food per day for thru hiking."

QUOTE FROM LAWTON "DISCO" GRINTER
"It took me the bulk of 10,000 miles of long-distance hiking to really grasp the concept that junk food and carrying less food to save overall pack weight works against you both in the short-term and the long run." From SectionHiker.com.

So, for long term backpacking, these two experts recommend carrying more food than the standard UL mantra of 1 or 1.25 lbs a day.

[Mags]

So, for long term backpacking, these two experts recommend carrying more food than the standard UL mantra of 1 or 1.25 lbs a day.

I honestly never heard of that ratio. Seems ~2 lbs a day is the standard quote. Not to say others do not advocate the 1 lb a day, but most experienced people (no matter what gear is carried or activity done..be it skiing, climbing, etc) would advocate carrying less food than you need. What I call the Excel Backpackers (Look Ma! I have it on spreadsheet!) may of course be different.

Granted, being of Italian background ,the concept of carrying too little food is an anathema! :D

[Different Socks]

Well 12 pounds is my total weight, not my base weight. Just as I am leaving town sometimes I'll ask at the Post Office how much I am carrying everything included. Yes I do cook - one meal a day. I'm not a great cook but it is food.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with JAK - no intentions to start any type of war. One of the problems I run into is my food is about 90% of my total pack weight . Compare to the weight of my food my equipment weight is very little yet my food sits in my pack like a rock. After the first day or so it not to bad. It is just something I've always try to work on. I just picked up a couple new packs that I can't weight to try out.

Wolf

12 pounds total weight with food and water!!?? How do you do that? Even 1 pound per day of food, that would mean a base weight of 7 pounds! Your empty pack must weigh ounces. Incredibly unbelievable. Seriously, how do you do it? Please elaborate.

[Different Socks]

Good quality food is important to me on the trail. Our dehydrator is humming for weeks before our trip. All the dinners I carry just needs boiling water added to it. We do all the "cooking" at home before our trip so we can enjoy healthy home- cooked meals out on the trail. You can find great tastin dehydrated fruits and veggies all ready prepared for snacking. Yumm...

HikerMom, give me an idea of how much all that great tasting food would weigh for 5 days of meals. Like I've said before in my OP, people say they carry this many meals, or that many meals, yet they never mention condiments, breads, oil, milk powder, drink powders, etc.
That's why I find it hard to beleive that some people carry everything they need for those 5 days and each day comes out to 1--1.25 pounds.

[Different Socks]

Yes I actually just blogged (http://www.blissfulhiking.com) on this on how to dehydrate veggies and meats to add to dinners. A pet peeve of mine is the lack of hiker nutrition which I believe can contribute to the lack of finishing one's hiking goal. Ex - You pull a muscle. You have little or no protein or vitamins from food but empty carbs (and lack of first aid knowledge also). Healing gets delayed. You get frustrated. Or you reinjure it. You get off the trail.

Since I did my first thru in 1992, every hike I've done, whether long trail or day hike, I add my own home dehydrated veggies and meats to the meals. For a day hike, I'll have a pre-made sandwich, but I also take some ramen with dried veggies and dried meats. it is so much more appetizing a lunch to look forward to after a slog to the top of a high peak.

[Different Socks]

Yup, totally in synch with this. In fact, my TSM 5-tray dehydrator is almost finished cranking out a standard load of food for me for my next 2 week trip in March---this month. Right now I'm drying a fruit leather blender drink of a base of pineapple/coconut juice with several tablespoons of almond butter, a large handful of almonds, blueberries and a couple peeled apples. It makes for a nutty chewy fruit-based leather which is good on the trail.

For my March trip I have dried---
** frozen organic broccoli florets
** frozen/cooked butternut squash (very good with pasta meals for thickening)
** tomato soups like Dr McDougall's in a box
** Imagine quart boxed soups like butternut squash soup, sweet potato soup, mushroom soup, broccoli soup.
** Wildwood baked tofu cut in strips and dried like jerky
** a whole box of spaghetti cooked at home with 2 jars of sauce and the whole wad dried---will provide 7-9 days of cooked meals on the trail.
** Amy's frozen mac and cheese thawed and dried. It's already cooked in the box.
** Etc.
** Oh, and four meals of cooked and then dried quinoa.

Along with these cookables I bring a snackables bag full of no-cook foods like goat cheese and butter, honey, raisins, granola, a variety of meal bars, nuts, cashew butter, etc etc.



All backpackers would be served to read these two quotes on backpacking food loads---

WIKIPEDIA QUOTE ON UL BACKPACKING
"Ray Jardine suggest 2.5 lbs of food per day for thru hiking."

QUOTE FROM LAWTON "DISCO" GRINTER
"It took me the bulk of 10,000 miles of long-distance hiking to really grasp the concept that junk food and carrying less food to save overall pack weight works against you both in the short-term and the long run." From SectionHiker.com.

So, for long term backpacking, these two experts recommend carrying more food than the standard UL mantra of 1 or 1.25 lbs a day.

Would love to hike with you some day

[Different Socks]

Yup, totally in synch with this. In fact, my TSM 5-tray dehydrator is almost finished cranking out a standard load of food for me for my next 2 week trip in March---this month. Right now I'm drying a fruit leather blender drink of a base of pineapple/coconut juice with several tablespoons of almond butter, a large handful of almonds, blueberries and a couple peeled apples. It makes for a nutty chewy fruit-based leather which is good on the trail.

For my March trip I have dried---
** frozen organic broccoli florets
** frozen/cooked butternut squash (very good with pasta meals for thickening)
** tomato soups like Dr McDougall's in a box
** Imagine quart boxed soups like butternut squash soup, sweet potato soup, mushroom soup, broccoli soup.
** Wildwood baked tofu cut in strips and dried like jerky
** a whole box of spaghetti cooked at home with 2 jars of sauce and the whole wad dried---will provide 7-9 days of cooked meals on the trail.
** Amy's frozen mac and cheese thawed and dried. It's already cooked in the box.
** Etc.
** Oh, and four meals of cooked and then dried quinoa.

Along with these cookables I bring a snackables bag full of no-cook foods like goat cheese and butter, honey, raisins, granola, a variety of meal bars, nuts, cashew butter, etc etc.



All backpackers would be served to read these two quotes on backpacking food loads---

WIKIPEDIA QUOTE ON UL BACKPACKING
"Ray Jardine suggest 2.5 lbs of food per day for thru hiking."

QUOTE FROM LAWTON "DISCO" GRINTER
"It took me the bulk of 10,000 miles of long-distance hiking to really grasp the concept that junk food and carrying less food to save overall pack weight works against you both in the short-term and the long run." From SectionHiker.com.

So, for long term backpacking, these two experts recommend carrying more food than the standard UL mantra of 1 or 1.25 lbs a day.

I also dry pasta sauce, alfredo sauce and others. Drying already cooked pasta wasn't for me, yet I'd like to know what your wads of sauce/pasta look like and taste like. Do you add any dried meats?

[Tipi Walter]

Would love to hike with you some day

You'd be more than welcome. Just stay away from my food.:)

[Different Socks]

After food and water my pack weighs 30 lbs, I don't do base weight in my oppinion thats stupid, People that wieghs their pack without the food and water is a FOOL.


Agree!! The weight of the pack may go down each day you consume food, but you still have to carry the full weight those first days out! You'd be surprised by the number of people that give me the crazy look when they see I've brought a Bakepacker and the things to bake with me. They'll laugh at me, say they'd never carry all that extra weight. Yet when it comes time to make it, soon they are sniffing the air around me, drifting closer and closer to see what it is I am baking, then sooner or later ask me if they can have a bite or a piece. First timers I share with, after that they can carry and make their own.

[bigcranky]

After food and water my pack weighs 30 lbs, I don't do base weight in my oppinion thats stupid, People that wieghs their pack without the food and water is a FOOL.

Well, I guess most backpackers are fools, then, myself included.

The idea behind "base weight" is that it gives one a tool for comparison. Telling you I have a 30 pound pack is meaningless until I tell you it has 5 days of food and two liters of water. Given the variability of food, water, and fuel, having a base weight number is a reasonable way to have some idea of what you're carrying.

[Mags]

First timers I share with, after that they can carry and make their own.

Where are you backpacking so that you are seeking out people? :D

[HikerMom58]

HikerMom, give me an idea of how much all that great tasting food would weigh for 5 days of meals. Like I've said before in my OP, people say they carry this many meals, or that many meals, yet they never mention condiments, breads, oil, milk powder, drink powders, etc.
That's why I find it hard to beleive that some people carry everything they need for those 5 days and each day comes out to 1--1.25 pounds.

DS... I wish I could give you a definitive answer of how much 5 days worth of this type of food would weigh. Never weighed it. Of course, the dehydrated dinners take up very little space & is light in weight. All the spices etc are already in the food. Milk powder is in the same baggie as the dry cereal, just add cold water. (no hot oatmeal since I've only done summer hiking)
Lunch- bread is those light whole grain sandwich rounds or whole grain pita bread. Peanut butter and jelly - those small pre-packaged serving size containers. Beef jerky for protein. We buy those little round babybel cheese. No oil. We do carry individual G2 drink powder but only have that for 1 meal. We just drink lots of plain water. The only "heavy food" we carry is baby carrots.
Like others have said... nuts, nutritious bars and other light weight snacks is what we carry. We even dehydrated yogurt for breakfast..yummm... it came out sticky like taffy but it was really good. We eat lots of dehydrated veggies and fruit, in the "ready to eat" form.

Our packs (we have awesome packs IMHO- many would consider them too heavy) with 4-5 days of food + a good amount of water for the day would weigh in at around 30 lbs. If I were solo hiking - my pack would prob. weigh more like 35 lbs, starting out. We always eat our own food, never buy food, for our packs, at the store. That would get too heavy.

Hope this helps answer your question...

[Different Socks]

Where are you backpacking so that you are seeking out people? :D

Almost any hike I've done, if I meet others and we end up tenting near each other or eating by the campfire or waters edge or whatever(even in a shelter), invariably they will ask what I am making, smell it and then ask me to share it.
I find this especially true on long trail hikes when going into town to resupply. They see what I put in my cart or pull out of my box and are aghast at it because it's too complicated to make, or too heavy, or uses too much fuel. YET, when back out on the trail, if we end up at that same shelter, they will always ask, "So Different Socks, what's for dessert tonight?" They will chomp down on pop tarts and I am enjoying no-bake cheesecake.

Hell, I've even made pizza with fresh dough on the PCT and CDT. Just takes the recipe, rehydrated veggies and sauce with a block of shredded cheese on top--YUM, YUM!!

[Slo-go'en]

The idea behind "base weight" is that it gives one a tool for comparison.

Exactly. Your pack will never be lighter then it's "base weight", unless you eliminate or replace a piece of gear. The weight of food/water/fuel is highly variable, depending on a number of factors, both enviormental and personal.

Plus the base weight can infulence the amount of food you have to carry. Someone with a heavy pack is more likely to take longer to get between point A and B then someone with a much lighter pack, therefore requiring more food, which makes the pack even heavier, slowing them down even farther.

[Alligator]

I generally just estimate that I have 2 lbs of food a day. However, I do find that perhaps that is an underestimate as my food bag is usually awfully solid. I don't like to weigh it as the amount of food seems gluttonous:eek:. I try to resupply after 4 days generally, which is typically quite doable on the AT. I will maildrop my food and supplement an item or two such as fresh goods. I do this because it is quick and reliable. As far as food goes and weight, I prefer to eat what I want without regard to its weight. However, I follow general guidelines of my own. Some of these are:




No canned goods (except dolmades)-I might change this on a short trip for the kids.




None of that precooked rice that weighs 8 oz or other packs of precooked foods that just need warming.




Fresher foods for the first or second day such as asparagus, brocolli rabe, or collards.




Bagels or a loaf of sourdough or other crusty bread for the first few days.




As far as condiments, spices, spreads (PB, Jelly, cream cheese, catsup) these will be carefully measured.




I dehydrate meals for dinner that are often very similar to homemade meals. These have a lot of variety and veggies mixed in.




I plan all snacks by the day. I ration these into a snack bag so I don't overeat the Reeses. I try to include one or two dried fruits, one or two types of nuts, 2-3 bars, and some chocolate like snickers.




I work my lunches around bread choice. The first half of the trip might be bagels with cheese from a block, PB & J, cream cheese. The second I might plan for tortillas.




Colder trips allow for additional perishables. I might bring heavy cream and make an alfredo, then use the excess to make chocolate pudding.



I almost never come home with extra food and I typically lose several pounds on weeklong trips. I eat regularly throughout the day breakfast, snacks, lunch, snacks, predinner, dinner, more snacks. I don't have a baked dessert but I like to have some cookies, pistachios, or even wasabi peas for after dinner.

I am a little bit higher than UL, more in the lightweight range. I could hit UL but I have some comfort choices that I adhere too.

[colorado_rob]

Well, I guess most backpackers are fools, then, myself included.

The idea behind "base weight" is that it gives one a tool for comparison. Telling you I have a 30 pound pack is meaningless until I tell you it has 5 days of food and two liters of water. Given the variability of food, water, and fuel, having a base weight number is a reasonable way to have some idea of what you're carrying. I'm a fool too, I suppose. Any modern backpacking book I've ever seen quotes "base weight" though, as said a million times, simply a standardized measure for direct comparison. Days between resupply vary so much, it's nice have a starting point to work on. I've packed for three weeks of food and fuel twice now, basically said food and fuel totally dominating the total pack weight, and still, I think the Base Weight concept was important, perhaps even more so. If you have 42 pounds of food and fuel for 21 days (what I had), is a base weight of 15 pounds vs. 20 not important anymore? Sure it is. BIG difference between a 57 pound and a 62 pound pack! Try then sometime, then see if that extra 5 pounds matters. Every pound gets more and more important when weight goes up, not less and less so (even though the percentage gets less).

Also, FWIW, over the many years, I've dialed to 1.75 pounds of food a day is perfect for myself, to not lose any weight but still have enough energy to do long days and big climbs. My wife carries 1.5, works perfectly for her. These are cold weather weights, a tad less for warmer weather.

[Tipi Walter]

I also dry pasta sauce, alfredo sauce and others. Drying already cooked pasta wasn't for me, yet I'd like to know what your wads of sauce/pasta look like and taste like. Do you add any dried meats?

You should cook up a complete spaghetti meal with sauce and mushrooms and the whole works and slap it into the dehydrator.

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2012/TRIP-137/i-QcNcLzh/0/M/TRIP%20137%20014-M.jpg
A gallon bag of dried spaghetti will last me over a week of daily meals. Put in the pot cozy, add cheese and butter, wait 30 minutes.


http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2013-1/18-Days-in-the-Big-Frog/i-HT8pKJq/0/M/TRIP%20141%20249-M.jpg
In the field I bring the wad to a boil and add dried butternut squash soup to thicken. The hard part is waiting 30 minutes.


http://assets.trailspace.com/assets/8/2/a/1579050/TRIP-141-133.jpg
Here's another good meal you can buy and thaw and dry.


http://assets.trailspace.com/assets/8/2/7/1579047/TRIP-141-127.jpg
The results.


http://assets.trailspace.com/assets/8/2/f/1579055/TRIP-141-131.jpg
And then there's good old broccoli. Store bought frozen, thawed and dried.

[Tipi Walter]

I'm a fool too, I suppose. Any modern backpacking book I've ever seen quotes "base weight" though, as said a million times, simply a standardized measure for direct comparison. Days between resupply vary so much, it's nice have a starting point to work on. I've packed for three weeks of food and fuel twice now, basically said food and fuel totally dominating the total pack weight, and still, I think the Base Weight concept was important, perhaps even more so. If you have 42 pounds of food and fuel for 21 days (what I had), is a base weight of 15 pounds vs. 20 not important anymore? Sure it is. BIG difference between a 57 pound and a 62 pound pack! Try then sometime, then see if that extra 5 pounds matters. Every pound gets more and more important when weight goes up, not less and less so (even though the percentage gets less).

Also, FWIW, over the many years, I've dialed to 1.75 pounds of food a day is perfect for myself, to not lose any weight but still have enough energy to do long days and big climbs. My wife carries 1.5, works perfectly for her. These are cold weather weights, a tad less for warmer weather.

Pertinent quotes---" . . . food and fuel totally dominating the total pack weight."

I understand this completely. My usual trips go from 18 to 21 days per month and I have the idiotic tendency to want to bring out books to read too and as you say the food/fuel weight is a killer. Then throw in some outlandish items like a 7 lb 14 oz pack and my beloved 8 lb 10 oz tent and ZAP I'm a whimpering fool. But at least I'm out.

[Mags]

Hell, I've even made pizza with fresh dough on the PCT and CDT. Just takes the recipe, rehydrated veggies and sauce with a block of shredded cheese on top--YUM, YUM!!

Certainly sounds good..but I try to pick my campsites away from others. ;)

[Tipi Walter]

Here's a question. I'm thinking of taking out a dozen fresh eggs but I don't wanna carry the fry pan. Any usage suggestions? Cooked in pasta? Cooked in oatmeal?

[Gray Blazer]

Here's a question. I'm thinking of taking out a dozen fresh eggs but I don't wanna carry the fry pan. Any usage suggestions? Cooked in pasta? Cooked in oatmeal?


French toast on a stick.

[Alligator]

Here's a question. I'm thinking of taking out a dozen fresh eggs but I don't wanna carry the fry pan. Any usage suggestions? Cooked in pasta? Cooked in oatmeal?Egg drop soup, or you could scramble them into a rice dish or pasta dish. Poach 'em or hardboil 'em. I've only tried poaching an egg once though, I still have to learn how to do it correctly. Could be tough in the field.

[HikerMom58]

You should cook up a complete spaghetti meal with sauce and mushrooms and the whole works and slap it into the dehydrator.

http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2012/TRIP-137/i-QcNcLzh/0/M/TRIP%20137%20014-M.jpg
A gallon bag of dried spaghetti will last me over a week of daily meals. Put in the pot cozy, add cheese and butter, wait 30 minutes.


http://tipiwalter.smugmug.com/Backpacking2013-1/18-Days-in-the-Big-Frog/i-HT8pKJq/0/M/TRIP%20141%20249-M.jpg
In the field I bring the wad to a boil and add dried butternut squash soup to thicken. The hard part is waiting 30 minutes.


http://assets.trailspace.com/assets/8/2/a/1579050/TRIP-141-133.jpg
Here's another good meal you can buy and thaw and dry.


http://assets.trailspace.com/assets/8/2/7/1579047/TRIP-141-127.jpg
The results.


http://assets.trailspace.com/assets/8/2/f/1579055/TRIP-141-131.jpg
And then there's good old broccoli. Store bought frozen, thawed and dried.

Great lookin food you got there Tipi! :)

[Mags]

Cooked in pasta?

Absolutely. Cook your pasta, toss in scrambled, raw eggs while the pasta is still hot. Add some grated cheese, black pepper, salt and some seasoning to taste. A quick and simple spaghetti alla carbonara. It is an awesome and hearty winter dish ths is really easy to prepare even in the field. In fact, legend has it that is why the Italian coal miners "back-in-the-day" made it. The name itself roughty translates to coal-miners spaghetti. :) I've made it on hut trips. Should be easy to make on a backpacking stove.

[flemdawg1]

Here's a question. I'm thinking of taking out a dozen fresh eggs but I don't wanna carry the fry pan. Any usage suggestions? Cooked in pasta? Cooked in oatmeal?

put a frezzerbag w/ a couple scrambled in boiling water (boy scout scrambled eggs)

[Tipi Walter]

French toast on a stick.

Sounds yummy except I hardly ever build a fire.


Egg drop soup, or you could scramble them into a rice dish or pasta dish. Poach 'em or hardboil 'em. I've only tried poaching an egg once though, I still have to learn how to do it correctly. Could be tough in the field.

Hardboil is always a good option as I usually take out eggless mayo which mixes well to make egg salad.


Absolutely. Cook your pasta, toss in scrambled, raw eggs while the pasta is still hot. Add some grated cheese, black pepper, salt and some seasoning to taste. A quick and simple spaghetti alla carbonara. It is an awesome and hearty winter dish ths is really easy to prepare even in the field. In fact, legend has it that is why the Italian coal miners "back-in-the-day" made it. The name itself roughty translates to coal-miners spaghetti. :) I've made it on hut trips. Should be easy to make on a backpacking stove.

This will probably be my main way to use eggs and will probably result in a sort of 90% noodle/10% egg omelette.


put a frezzerbag w/ a couple scrambled in boiling water (boy scout scrambled eggs)

I forgot about this way. Can I use just a regular ziploc bag?

I just got one of these---and it looks to be much better than the old yellow or green egg "suitcases" sold at Walmart. It seals and it's solid. It's from---

http://www.amazon.com/LockandLock-LOCK-N-LOCK-EGG-CONTAINER/dp/B001H39E1U

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41obkDGr0fL._SL500_SS500_.jpg

[flemdawg1]

I forgot about this way. Can I use just a regular ziploc bag?




Maybe, what do you have lose except a couple of watery eggs?

[illabelle]

Back to the original question....
My husband carries the tent, water filter, stove, and fuel. I carry the food and dishes. We each carry our own clothes and sleeping bag. So I guess we should average ours. Typically he carries close to 40, and I usually have about 35, but we've been cutting those numbers down as we get smarter. On our last trip, I was more like 30, and he forgot to weigh. Averaging between us, I'd say maybe 33 pounds each going forward, with water, with food, with poles - and for me that includes my boots and whatever else I'm hiking in.

[Different Socks]

Absolutely. Cook your pasta, toss in scrambled, raw eggs while the pasta is still hot. Add some grated cheese, black pepper, salt and some seasoning to taste. A quick and simple spaghetti alla carbonara. It is an awesome and hearty winter dish ths is really easy to prepare even in the field. In fact, legend has it that is why the Italian coal miners "back-in-the-day" made it. The name itself roughty translates to coal-miners spaghetti. :) I've made it on hut trips. Should be easy to make on a backpacking stove.

This one sounds good! Think I'll try it this summer.

[Different Socks]

Thanks for all the replies!

So let's say, you are going out on the PCT or the CDT and trail towns are further apart than 5 days, how much would you pack weigh then?

[leaftye]

.
Thanks for all the replies!

So let's say, you are going out on the PCT or the CDT and trail towns are further apart than 5 days, how much would you pack weigh then?

More. :)

[prain4u]

Thanks for all the replies!

So let's say, you are going out on the PCT or the CDT and trail towns are further apart than 5 days, how much would you pack weigh then?


With all due respect--and with no offense intended--I believe that the original poster is perhaps "over thinking" this topic. Ultimately, your pack, your gear, and your food will weigh what it weighs. As one poster already suggested, what are you going to do if the total weight goes over a certain number of pounds? Will you throw out some necessary gear? Will you take some of the food out of your pack? Of course not. At a certain point, it all simply weighs what it weighs (and you just live with that)

It seems that you already know what foods you like to carry, cook and eat. Thus, does it really matter how much weight the other people are carrying? If you are personally happy with your food choices, then just carry the foods that you want to carry--and don't worry about what other people may be doing.

Are you going to switch to a different diet, start liking different foods, or begin carrying DIFFERENT food---based solely upon the answers given by a bunch of complete strangers on WhiteBlaze? I would hope not.

Have fun! Happy hiking! Bon Appetit

[Different Socks]

With all due respect--and with no offense intended--I believe that the original poster is perhaps "over thinking" this topic. Ultimately, your pack, your gear, and your food will weigh what it weighs. As one poster already suggested, what are you going to do if the total weight goes over a certain number of pounds? Will you throw out some necessary gear? Will you take some of the food out of your pack? Of course not. At a certain point, it all simply weighs what it weighs (and you just live with that)

It seems that you already know what foods you like to carry, cook and eat. Thus, does it really matter how much weight the other people are carrying? If you are personally happy with your food choices, then just carry the foods that you want to carry--and don't worry about what other people may be doing.

Are you going to switch to a different diet, start liking different foods, or begin carrying DIFFERENT food---based solely upon the answers given by a bunch of complete strangers on WhiteBlaze? I would hope not.

Have fun! Happy hiking! Bon Appetit

I am not asking anyone to justify what they do and do not carry. I was interested in what it is that they do carry to lend credence to the light weights they do shoulder. I wished to know if it was possible if people can carry these UL packs and still have a grand variety of meals/foods/snacks to eat as well as all the accouterments that go with them.
I find it astonishing that a loaded pack can weigh so little with 5 days of food and water, especially when you add in all the extras: oil, drink mixes, condiments, milk powder, honey, PB, breads, etc.

[rocketsocks]

I am not asking anyone to justify what they do and do not carry. I was interested in what it is that they do carry to lend credence to the light weights they do shoulder. I wished to know if it was possible if people can carry these UL packs and still have a grand variety of meals/foods/snacks to eat as well as all the accouterments that go with them.
I find it astonishing that a loaded pack can weigh so little with 5 days of food and water, especially when you add in all the extras: oil, drink mixes, condiments, milk powder, honey, PB, breads, etc.I've always wondered about this too. I know where I can drop 5 lbs straight away...2 off the shelter, 2 off the bag, and 1 off the sleep pad. After that, I'm really struggling to find other areas. The food is what it is...

Red pepper flakes
oil
butter
dried creamer
parmalot
salt
sugar
hot sauce
flour
corn meal ect, ect, it all adds up!

[Bronk]

I think maybe the original poster was asking for what others do in order to get ideas on how to change their own setup. Are people skimping on some things in order to carry better/more food? Do they start with a base weight of 12 pounds but add food and water and end up with 30 or 35, or are they more in the 20 pound range? There are a lot of variables involved in this and the best way to learn is by watching what others are doing...a thru hike attempt is probably one of the best ways to figure out what gear works for you and what doesn't because every day you're meeting new people who have a different gear setup than you do. I started with 55 pounds at Springer and was fully loaded with 7 days food (real food) at 28 pounds when I got off the trail 4 months later. By the end I was carrying canned goods and a loaf of bread. You just can't get enough protein if all you're eating is ramen noodles and pop tarts.

One thing to consider too is your body weight. In addition to losing 27 pounds from my pack I also lost 50 pounds off my body weight. So I was carrying 77 fewer pounds at the end than when I started, but still eating much better food.

[Tipi Walter]

. By the end I was carrying canned goods and a loaf of bread. You just can't get enough protein if all you're eating is ramen noodles and pop tarts.

This pretty much says everything truthful about food and backpacking. Ergo it's all about VARIETY. About trail variety and not in-town variety. Some of us don't do frequent resupplies and town trips so it's even more important to have a variety of foods in the pack. A variety of healthy foods. To paraphrase, by the end I was carrying avocados, grapes, cabbage, baked tofu, a dozen eggs, 3 lbs of goat cheese and butter, corn chips, popcorn, etc etc. Cuz by the end it's just you and Miss Nature and your tongue. Wait, that doesn't sound right.

[colorado_rob]

This pretty much says everything truthful about food and backpacking. Ergo it's all about VARIETY. About trail variety and not in-town variety. Some of us don't do frequent resupplies and town trips so it's even more important to have a variety of foods in the pack. A variety of healthy foods. To paraphrase, by the end I was carrying avocados, grapes, cabbage, baked tofu, a dozen eggs, 3 lbs of goat cheese and butter, corn chips, popcorn, etc etc. Cuz by the end it's just you and Miss Nature and your tongue. Wait, that doesn't sound right. +1 (except the tofu thing !)

[Drybones]

Well 12 pounds is my total weight, not my base weight. Just as I am leaving town sometimes I'll ask at the Post Office how much I am carrying everything included. Yes I do cook - one meal a day. I'm not a great cook but it is food.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with JAK - no intentions to start any type of war. One of the problems I run into is my food is about 90% of my total pack weight . Compare to the weight of my food my equipment weight is very little yet my food sits in my pack like a rock. After the first day or so it not to bad. It is just something I've always try to work on. I just picked up a couple new packs that I can't weight to try out.

Wolf

Wolf...would you post your pack contents and weights please? Thanks.

[lemon b]

Last time I went out for 5 days it was just under 30 pounds.

[shelb]

Yes I actually just blogged (http://www.blissfulhiking.com) on this on how to dehydrate veggies and meats to add to dinners. A pet peeve of mine is the lack of hiker nutrition which I believe can contribute to the lack of finishing one's hiking goal. Ex - You pull a muscle. You have little or no protein or vitamins from food but empty carbs (and lack of first aid knowledge also). Healing gets delayed. You get frustrated. Or you reinjure it. You get off the trail.

So true! However, when I hike, desserts are only for a luxury.... someone's birthday. Otherwise, it is the basics:
Breakfast: Oatmeal or granola- either with some dried fruit (focus on protein/carbs/fruit)
Mid-morning snack: granola or trail mix (focus on protein/carbs/fruit)
Lunch: either more snack or tuna/crackers or pb crackers, etc (focus on protein and carbs)
After-noon snack: gorb or jerky (focus: protein/carbs)
Dinner: Noodle/rice meal with meat and veggies (focus on carbs, protein, veggies)

[Wolf - 23000]

12 pounds total weight with food and water!!?? How do you do that? Even 1 pound per day of food, that would mean a base weight of 7 pounds! Your empty pack must weigh ounces. Incredibly unbelievable. Seriously, how do you do it? Please elaborate.

Well I don't know how much I can really elaborate. My base weight is now running between 1 - 3 pounds (spring/summer weights). The rest is just food/water.

If you know what you are doing it not really that hard. It just takes experience and knowing how to use your equipment.

Wolf

[Different Socks]

Well I don't know how much I can really elaborate. My base weight is now running between 1 - 3 pounds (spring/summer weights). The rest is just food/water.

If you know what you are doing it not really that hard. It just takes experience and knowing how to use your equipment.

Wolf


A base weight of 1--3 pounds!??

Does anyone besides me think this is bull****? You can't say your pack weighs only ounces. That would be implying you carry a nlyon sack with no shoulder straps. And your bag, is it just a thin sheet? C'mon, of course you can elaborate because 1--3 pound base weight is improbable.

[rocketsocks]

Well I don't know how much I can really elaborate. My base weight is now running between 1 - 3 pounds (spring/summer weights). The rest is just food/water.

If you know what you are doing it not really that hard. It just takes experience and knowing how to use your equipment.

WolfI am interested, if you could please elaborate, that would be great. I've thought about the bear minimum I could be outside with, and it's not a lot, but that is not what I would carry if going hiking. Could you please list items and weights?

And I promise I wont beat you up on it...just curious!

[MuddyWaters]

For summer, in good weather, eating cold food, it is possible to push about 3 lbs


for instance:

pack - zpacks zero with side and rear pockets, 9oz
pad - GG torsolight 3.5 oz
Sleeping - cuben quilt 40f 12 oz
shelter hexamid, no net 4.6 oz
stakes - none use sticks/rocks 0 oz
ground cloth - poly cryo 1.5 oz

water bottles 1x1L .75 oz
FAK 1.5 oz

Montbell ex light down jacket 5.9 oz
hat 0.9 oz
glove liners 1.0 oz

silnylon rainjacket 2.7 oz
lighter 0.4 oz
foodbag -reynolds turkey bag 0.5 oz

[SouthMark]

14 lbs with food and water for Erwin to Hot Springs in June. And yes my lightest pack only weighs 3.8 oz.

[rocketsocks]

For summer, in good weather, eating cold food, it is possible to push about 3 lbs


for instance:

pack - zpacks zero with side and rear pockets, 9oz
pad - GG torsolight 3.5 oz
Sleeping - cuben quilt 40f 12 oz
shelter hexamid, no net 4.6 oz
stakes - none use sticks/rocks 0 oz
ground cloth - poly cryo 1.5 oz

water bottles 1x1L .75 oz
FAK 1.5 oz

Montbell ex light down jacket 5.9 oz
hat 0.9 oz
glove liners 1.0 oz

silnylon rainjacket 2.7 oz
lighter 0.4 oz
foodbag -reynolds turkey bag 0.5 ozThanks for posting that MuddyWaters......2.715 lbs. thats pretty darn light.

[Different Socks]

I am interested, if you could please elaborate, that would be great. I've thought about the bear minimum I could be outside with, and it's not a lot, but that is not what I would carry if going hiking. Could you please list items and weights?

And I promise I wont beat you up on it...just curious!

Seriously, I am curious also and i won't come down on you either. I just gotta know how you do this. All i can pictures is that is has to be the best optimum weather conditions for you to carry all the gear you need in a 3 pound base weight.

[garlic08]

...I am asking nicely that those of you that don't cook any meals, therefore did not require pans or fuel and stove, and those of you that eat the same thing every 5 days, AND those of you that are comfy with eating ramen day after day, please do not answer this post...

I don't cook and I eat a monotonous diet on the trail, so I didn't respond right away. I camp alone most of the time, too.


...I was interested in what it is that they do carry to lend credence to the light weights they do shoulder....

Now that's a different question. And with your word choice, lending credence, it sounds like you think a person who claims a UL pack weight is lying about it. Why would someone lie about what a pack weighs? And why is it that when someone on the AT saw me with a small pack they asked me how much it weighed? I would never do that when I saw someone staggering under a towering load. And then they wouldn't believe me when I told them.

If you're trying to prove that it's impossible to have a light pack and have all the trappings of civilization, I'd have to agree with you. The only way to achieve a light pack weight is to achieve a different mindset than you have at home and in your kitchen.

The "five days of food" metric being discussed here is an interesting choice. I often hear that. What I never hear is how many miles and what kind of terrain do you hike in those five days. Do you hike five miles to a lake and go fishing for four days, or do you cover 150 miles in the North Cascades on primitive or no trail? Those trips have different food and gear requirements. Those are completely different packs, actually.

My 9 oz frameless pack handles 20 pounds easily. When I carried it into the 100 mile wilderness on my NOBO thru hike, for example, it held my 8 pounds of gear and 8 pounds of food quite well. That hike took four days. I never carried five days of food on the AT.

[Wolf - 23000]

A base weight of 1--3 pounds!??

Does anyone besides me think this is bull****? You can't say your pack weighs only ounces. That would be implying you carry a nlyon sack with no shoulder straps. And your bag, is it just a thin sheet? C'mon, of course you can elaborate because 1--3 pound base weight is improbable.

Ok I’ll say it, I think your full of bull****. I was thinking of another word but if you want to use bull****, I am happy to help. Seriously packs have been weighing only a few ounces for years now – at least 7 years if not longer. C’mon, you didn’t know that? One pound of food? A thin sheet? Have you ever backpack before? I just gave a class at Harps Ferry on responsible light-weight-backpacking against that type of non-sense.

Improbable … lets think about that. Lightweight backpacking has been around for over 50 years. Does a woman name Grandma Gatewood ring a bell? She carried 17 pounds back in the 1960’s then. Do you really believe that hiking equipment has not gotten lighter?

Here is a tip for you. If you are trying to back lighter stop the BS. Second someone who hiking in Maine or New Hampshire is going carry different equipment than someone hiking in Georgia. Also use equipment for multiple ways. The same equipment will only work as well as you know how to use it. Focus on that, and stop spreading the BS.

Wolf

[SouthMark]

I personally have not been able to get to a sub five pound base weight because I am too old and cold natured. I have a copy of Glen Van Peski's sub 3 pound 3 day, 3 night trip on section E of the PCT if you would like a copy of it. His base weight was 2.89 lbs, his total from skin out weight was 15.55 lbs (7.77 consumables). When I was younger and not so cold natured I did the Smokies in March, 1983 with snow on the ground with 18 pounds total pack weight. Lone Wolf saw a photo of it and remarked that it looked like I was carrying a day pack and this was before cuben, titanium, etc. Sometimes just because you do not believe something doesn't mean that it is not true.

[Different Socks]

Ok I’ll say it, I think your full of bull****. I was thinking of another word but if you want to use bull****, I am happy to help. Seriously packs have been weighing only a few ounces for years now – at least 7 years if not longer. C’mon, you didn’t know that? One pound of food? A thin sheet? Have you ever backpack before? I just gave a class at Harps Ferry on responsible light-weight-backpacking against that type of non-sense.

Improbable … lets think about that. Lightweight backpacking has been around for over 50 years. Does a woman name Grandma Gatewood ring a bell? She carried 17 pounds back in the 1960’s then. Do you really believe that hiking equipment has not gotten lighter?

Here is a tip for you. If you are trying to back lighter stop the BS. Second someone who hiking in Maine or New Hampshire is going carry different equipment than someone hiking in Georgia. Also use equipment for multiple ways. The same equipment will only work as well as you know how to use it. Focus on that, and stop spreading the BS.

Wolf

So Wolf, you are saying that your pack would be heavier as you go further north or the conditions of weather changes for the worse than if it's down south and perfect weather every day? If this is so, and knowing what the weather can be like on the entire AT, how do you carry enough gear to handle the sudden change in weather no matter what the temp is?
For example: when I did the AT in 1992, the summer weather in PA was sunny and in the 90's, yet within days, the temps dropped into the 50's with night time temps in the 30's. When I reached southern VT in August, the temps were in the 60's each day and at night in the 40's. How would you deal with the wide temp and weather swings? Do you really carry all that you need to be comfy in these weather situations, or do you gamble and take your chances, biting the bullet if and when it does happen?
In other words are you saying that you carry a 3pound pack only under the best of conditions, or is that all the time no matter the temps, terrain, snow, rain, or heat? No questioning you, just asking so maybe I can learn alittle.

[Wolf - 23000]

Different Socks,

If you read my original post, my pack weight said 1 – 3 pounds. I never said I wasn’t prepared for the cold weather. One of my lightest trips was when I was just over 1 pound doing the JMT. I also was snowed/sleet on for three days. It wasn’t deep but it still was coming down. Again, if you know how to use your gear traveling lightweight is not that hard.

I will spell it out for you. The AT is 2,185 miles. Anyone who believes that they should use the same gear list the entire way has a very limited amount of experience. Also, do you real believe a southbounder who starts in Maine during the summer months would carry the same gear as a standard northbounder? Of course not?

Am I comfortable? The answers is yes. Part of backpacking is answering the question what do you want out of your hike? Part of backpacking is feeling at home in the outdoors. If you are just out to see pretty places then what do you expect? You asked the question how much do you carry including food/water? What did you think you would get for an answer?

Wolf

[Malto]

Wolf,
now you have my interest. I carry an eight lb base that meets conditions on most trails, three plus seasons. I have done the JMT, either all or parts multiple times using this gear. I can see getting down to 3 lbs for a limited duration trip, but a 1 lb JMT gear list sounds interesting. What exactly was in those 16 oz. and what type of hike was it, speed hike etc?

[Bronk]

I met as guy in Virginia that didn't have a pack...he had a web of paracord strapped across his shoulders that he tied his gear to (which probably weighed less than 5 pounds...could have been in the 3 pound range)...his shelter/sleeping bag was a small piece of tyvek...he left towns carrying only power bars in his pockets for food...he was traveling about 25 miles per day on this lightweight setup. At that rate you'll hit a town every other day in the south and cover 750 miles in one month. That's not the way I'd want to do it, but I don't question that it can be done.

[Freedom Walker]

Yes I actually just blogged (http://www.blissfulhiking.com) on this on how to dehydrate veggies and meats to add to dinners. A pet peeve of mine is the lack of hiker nutrition which I believe can contribute to the lack of finishing one's hiking goal. Ex - You pull a muscle. You have little or no protein or vitamins from food but empty carbs (and lack of first aid knowledge also). Healing gets delayed. You get frustrated. Or you reinjure it. You get off the trail.
I am glad I found your wonderful blog. I plan to visit it often, but not tonight, since daylight saving time started today.