View Full Version : Questions about shelters along the AT
What is the average distance between shelters along the AT?. Are they usually crowded?. Are reservations required?. How about a fee?. Do you sleep side by side with other hikers or is there plenty of room to stretch out and have your own space?. Do most of them have water, privy, bear canisters and other ammenities?.
Lone Wolf
03-11-2013, 14:08
What is the average distance between shelters along the AT?. Are they usually crowded?. Are reservations required?. How about a fee?. Do you sleep side by side with other hikers or is there plenty of room to stretch out and have your own space?. Do most of them have water, privy, bear canisters and other ammenities?.
don't know the average distance but in georgia alone there's 12 shelters on the AT. they are usually crowded in the spring. too damn many shelters
Rocket Jones
03-11-2013, 14:08
Check out the photo gallery (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/browseimages.php?c=503) here on White Blaze. There are plenty of pictures of the shelters and the hikers who use them.
Blissful
03-11-2013, 14:10
Honestly, take a tent. Shelters are noisy, dirty, animal infested.
Most do have privy and water. But this can vary. Check a updated guidebook for info. No reservations for a specific shelter except if section hiking in the Smokies and for thru hikers using The Birches at Katahdin Stream. Permits for camping required at Smokies and Shenandoah.
Rocket Jones
03-11-2013, 14:11
Mostly it's first come, first served. Water, privy, etc. can all be found in your guidebook. You really need to get one if you haven't already. It will answer most of your questions.
88BlueGT
03-11-2013, 14:15
Mostly it's first come, first served. Water, privy, etc. can all be found in your guidebook. You really need to get one if you haven't already. It will answer most of your questions.
+1
And you can do as suggested ^^^ for additional shelter information.
Ox97GaMe
03-11-2013, 14:27
The shelters average about 7 miles apart. This is an average. Some are closer, some farther apart. It is usually pretty easy to get from one shelter to another in a single day. As you get further into your hike, you may pass 2 or 3 shelters in a given day.
Yes, the shelters are full during thru hiker season. Shelters typically will sleep about 12-16 hikers. There are some that can sleep as many as 30, other that sleep as few as 6. I think the 6 person shelters are becoming more rare. The hikers are usually packed in like sardines. Each hiker will have approximately 2.5 - 3 ft wide space to use. When the weather is bad, it is not uncommon to exceed the normal capacity of a shelter. In good weather, many thru hikers opt to tent near the shelter.
I am only aware of reservations being required in the Great Smoky Mtn National Park. The fee for GSMNP is $20 for thruhikers. $4/night for all other backcountry campers. There are fees for using the PATC huts in Shennandoahs and the huts in the Whites.
Almost all shelters have access to a water source. you may have to walk a ways to get to it, especially during the peak of summer heat.
Many of the shelters have privies. Some of the maintaining clubs do not build privies because they are labor intensive to maintain. Many of the clubs are going to the mouldering style privy.
Most shelters have mechanisms for hanging your food. This is most commonly by use of bear cables or bear poles.
There are no ammenities at the shelters. Shelters are 3 sided structures with 1 or more sleeping platforms inside. Some have tables or benches that can be used to cook. I am aware of 1 shelter in PA that actually has running water, but that is RARE.
The AT is designed to be somewhat remote and provide a wilderness experience. The shelters are not 5 star accomodateions, but they do provide better shelter from inclement weather than a tent or tarp, if you choose to utilize them.
Tennessee Viking
03-11-2013, 15:01
I hope you are not wanting a whole lot from the shelters. They can be real nice wooden loft shelters or real basic concrete bunker type shelters.
In strictly in the GA/NC/TN/southern VA....
-It can be about 10-15 miles between shelters; in some areas its about 20 miles.
-Smokies is the only place in the south that requires permits and reservations...https://smokiespermits.nps.gov/index.cfm?BCPermitTypeID=2. To complicated to get into. But there is a fee for hiking overnight in the park.
-Water is usually about 0.1-0.5 mile of the shelter. Mind you that some water sources may be a steep climb up or down.
-Privies can be found at most but not all. Better bring a camping shovel.
-Some shelters have bear poles, and pack hangers but not all.
-If you are hiking with the crowd, better bring earbuds. Its going to be lots of snoring and farting in the shelters. Shelters can hold anywhere from 5-8 in the smaller ones. Up to 20 in some of the lofts. Every shelter is different. Most experienced hikers rather tent or hang than stay in shelters as shelters attract bears, mice, and locals.
As you get north, things change. You have the AMC huts.
Its better to tent or hang because you can camp almost anywhere along the trail
Todd, get the ThruHikers Companion! Most of your mysteries will be revealed to you. You want this on trail guide for planning purposes anyway. Do it! NOW!
One real exception to the spacing of the shelters is a 30 mile stretch in NY State. You can stay under the pavillion at Greymoor Monastery which basically serves the same purpose except that it is an open pavillion and on private property, but available to hikers. I don't remember where it splits the distance between shelters, but by the time you get there your conditioning will be such that you shouldn't have a problem. The year I passed through there, a few guys went the full 30 (plus or minus) miles. I opted for the monastery and it was great with a shower, outhouse and picnic tables (and it rained hard so I slept on the concrete floor in the pavillion).
Cookerhiker
03-11-2013, 15:44
...Most shelters have mechanisms for hanging your food. This is most commonly by use of bear cables or bear poles. ...
...-Some shelters have bear poles, ... but not all. ..
Throughout the entire AT corridor, most shelters do not have anything to keep bears away from food. Georgia and parts of North Carolina have cables, Shenandoah NP has poles, New Jersey has metal bear boxes and there's a few other devices scattered here and there but for large swaths of the AT, you hang from the tree.
Cookerhiker
03-11-2013, 15:55
One real exception to the spacing of the shelters is a 30 mile stretch in NY State. You can stay under the pavillion at Greymoor Monastery which basically serves the same purpose except that it is an open pavillion and on private property, but available to hikers. I don't remember where it splits the distance between shelters, but by the time you get there your conditioning will be such that you shouldn't have a problem. The year I passed through there, a few guys went the full 30 (plus or minus) miles. I opted for the monastery and it was great with a shower, outhouse and picnic tables (and it rained hard so I slept on the concrete floor in the pavillion).
I also stayed at Greymoor pavilion but I tented in the grass next to it because of the mosquitoes.
Here's some distances in NY:
West Mountain Shelter to Greymoor - 13 miles
Greymoor to RPH Shelter - 19 miles (easy hiking - I did it (http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=103012) so I know you can)
RPH to Morgan Stewart Shelter - 9 miles
Morgan Stewart to Telephone Pioneers Shelter - 8 miles, meaning you can hike RPH to Telephone Pioneers - again, I did so can you.
Telephone Pioneers to Wiley Shelter - now you're almost in CT
All of these stats come from The Companion (https://www.atctrailstore.org/catalog/iteminfo.cfm?itemid=719&compid=1) - as Dogwood said, buy it!
This map will show you where they are, capacity/water/privy, and a photo (usually).
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/hiking/find-a-hike/interactive-map
This distance calculator will show you how far apart they are.
http://www.atdist.com/
Armed with this information, you should have no trouble avoiding the shelters. Except in G.S.M.N.P. where you are pretty much required to use shelters. If you can get space in them.
Follow up question for the AT Experienced: When is the AT NOT in season? A friend & I are in the early planning stage of a 30 day trip next year on the AT beginning at Mile 0. I am leaning toward September-October in an attempt to avoid the crowds. Is that time of year a low travel time on the AT?
Thanks!
Wayne
Cookerhiker
03-11-2013, 16:17
...Follow up question for the AT Experienced: When is the AT NOT in season? A friend & I are in the early planning stage of a 30 day trip next year on the AT beginning at Mile 0. I am leaning toward September-October in an attempt to avoid the crowds. Is that time of year a low travel time on the AT?
Thanks!
Wayne
Where are you going to hike? There are lots of people hiking the AT in September and October in Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Shenandoah NP, the Smokies. Other parts are less crowded but you'll see more on weekends.
For a 30 day hike, how about starting in Damascus on a weekday and see how much of Virginia you can complete?
A mile farther than you want to go. Not after the Fall. Generally not. In GSMNP there is a fee for your very existence. Depends on question two. Water and privy yes. Bear boxes sometimes. Not so much.
k2basecamp
03-11-2013, 16:39
Shelters are actually maintained by the Appalachian Mouse Association (AMA) and are first and foremost there for all of our little mouse friends. Through a mutual agreement with the AMA hikers have been allowed to stay at the shelters. See generally, Journal of AT Mouse http://www.unclerust.com
Garcia, M., Parapacker, Little Juan
ChinMusic
03-11-2013, 16:41
Shelter dwellers tend to race ahead to get a spot. They generally have to stop hiking earlier or the spots fill up (peak season). I prefer my tent in bad weather over a shelter.
I have not camped anywhere near a shelter yet on my first week on the trail. I do take advantage of the privies.
Where are you going to hike? There are lots of people hiking the AT in September and October in Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Shenandoah NP, the Smokies. Other parts are less crowded but you'll see more on weekends.
For a 30 day hike, how about starting in Damascus on a weekday and see how much of Virginia you can complete?
My friend aspires to complete the entire AT in sections as time/funds permit. Therefore, he wishes to start at Mile 0 (Springer Mountain, GA) and proceed north.
I realize that the southern section of the AT in GA-TN-NC is probably the most traveled. I was just curious to know if the hoards thin a little after Labor Day when the kidlets all return to school. To be replaced by Geezers such as myself and my hiking partner.
Cookerhiker
03-11-2013, 17:04
My friend aspires to complete the entire AT in sections as time/funds permit. Therefore, he wishes to start at Mile 0 (Springer Mountain, GA) and proceed north.
I realize that the southern section of the AT in GA-TN-NC is probably the most traveled. I was just curious to know if the hoards thin a little after Labor Day when the kidlets all return to school. To be replaced by Geezers such as myself and my hiking partner.
Yes, I knew you said "Mile 0" but if relative solitude was more important, I thought I'd offer an alternative.
Starting at Springer, I don't think weekdays will be too crowded but you'll meet people. And the Smokies will likely have full shelters. If you're not aware, the Smokies now have a fee but as a thruhiker, you don't need reservations (unless that's also changed.)
The whole G.S.M.N.P. permit thing seems like a pain. I mean, you have to make reservations, pay a fee, get a permit/license in advance and then what happens if the shelters are all full (but yet you are required to stay in them)?. Are you supposed to wait another year and then try again hoping some vacancies will be open?. What if I want to tent instead to avoid snoring, other things?.
And, it's not like you can just bypass the G.S.M.N.P. because it runs right through the middle of the trail (unless you are sectioning, etc).
The whole G.S.M.N.P. permit thing seems like a pain. I mean, you have to make reservations, pay a fee, get a permit/license in advance and then what happens if the shelters are all full (but yet you are required to stay in them)?. Are you supposed to wait another year and then try again hoping some vacancies will be open?. What if I want to tent instead to avoid snoring, other things?.
In my case, and I hope my friend understands, I have no problem bypassing G.S.M.N.P. entirely. I can call my daughter and have her shuttle us around the Park. Do that bit another time.
Wayne
max patch
03-11-2013, 18:50
The whole G.S.M.N.P. permit thing seems like a pain. I mean, you have to make reservations, pay a fee, get a permit/license in advance and then what happens if the shelters are all full (but yet you are required to stay in them)?. Are you supposed to wait another year and then try again hoping some vacancies will be open?. What if I want to tent instead to avoid snoring, other things?.
If you are a thruhiker (both start and end 50 miles from each end of the park) you will get a permit even if the shelters are full. If there is space you have to stay in the shelter. If full, you are allowed to camp in the vicinity of the shelter.
If you are a section hiker you need a reservation for each nite in the park. If a shelter is full you will need to change your planned itenerary.
max patch
03-11-2013, 18:55
In my case, and I hope my friend understands, I have no problem bypassing G.S.M.N.P. entirely. I can call my daughter and have her shuttle us around the Park. Do that bit another time.
Wayne
Why would you want to do that? If you are a thru hiker going thru the GSMNP is as easy as it gets. Its when you are a section hiker that its a PITA.
ChinMusic
03-11-2013, 19:04
Full shelters in the Smokies are this thrus dream.
The thru-hike permit still seems like a pain but not as much as a permit for sectioning. I wonder what happens though if you plan, pack and fully intend to do a thru-hike but for whatever reason you are unable to continue your hike through the GSMNP. Do you have to file a report and say "yeah, well I know I said I was a thru-hiker but...um...it just didn't work out that way". Just sounds like a huge hassle to me. Also, I think it would be a royal pain to have to make reservation, get a permit, pay a fee, etc in advance for every shelter (if you are a sectioner).
HikerMom58
03-11-2013, 19:13
Todd, get the ThruHikers Companion! Most of your mysteries will be revealed to you. You want this on trail guide for planning purposes anyway. Do it! NOW!
LOL.. I can really read the urgency in your post! I'm rolling on the floor laughing.....
NOW!!! Ahhh haha!! *Gaining Composure* :D It's good advise!
Creek Dancer
03-11-2013, 19:16
Full shelters in the Smokies are this thrus dream.
I was wondering how you were going to handle that? :)
illabelle
03-11-2013, 19:45
The thru-hike permit still seems like a pain but not as much as a permit for sectioning. I wonder what happens though if you plan, pack and fully intend to do a thru-hike but for whatever reason you are unable to continue your hike through the GSMNP. Do you have to file a report and say "yeah, well I know I said I was a thru-hiker but...um...it just didn't work out that way". Just sounds like a huge hassle to me. Also, I think it would be a royal pain to have to make reservation, get a permit, pay a fee, etc in advance for every shelter (if you are a sectioner).
Todd, we made a point to section the Smokies (in two parts) last year BEFORE the new system went into effect. So far as I know, the only real differences to a section hiker with the new system are that the reservation system is online (HUGE improvement!) and there is a fee. We called the backcountry reservation office, told them where we wanted to go and when, and they told us what AT shelters had space during that time frame. We adjusted our itinerary to that information and they gave us a reservation number. One permit, one reservation, one phone call (when they finally answered) for the whole trip.
If you start out doing a thru-hike, and cannot complete the Smokies for some reason, that's no problem. From what I've read here on WhiteBlaze, you have 7 or 8 days to complete the park, and if you're unsuccessful due to injury, weather, or similar reason, there won't be a ranger at the other end writing you a ticket because you took 9 days.
Please confirm to us that you have ordered the Companion so we can stop worrying about you. ;)
Monkeywrench
03-12-2013, 08:10
I also stayed at Greymoor pavilion but I tented in the grass next to it because of the mosquitoes.
When I stayed at Greymoor I hung my hammock in the soccer goal.
20328
I began avoiding shelters in the early '00s when reading about the prevalence of deer tick carrying mice there. I sometimes use them in the winter, usually only with groups who like staying in them, but, as you can see from the picture to the left, I usually (almost always) hang my hammock to keep the little pests away.
Ladytrekker
03-12-2013, 10:03
http://web.eecs.utk.edu/~dunigan/at/
I use this link when looking at distances
flemdawg1
03-12-2013, 10:29
Todd, the griping about permits here on WB is mostly overlblown (just like the griping about shelters in general, UL hikers, slackpackers, religious people, etc.). Its a simple process, and if you deviate slightly from the itenerary they aren't out to hammer you with a fine. Just about anyone who has ever went out for a multiday hike understands that a large percentage of the time stuff happens and the best laid plans are thrown off.
I definately disagree with bypassing the Smokies, its some of most beautiful scenery of the entire trail (esp between Clingamans Dome to Tricorner Knob).
FlyPaper
03-12-2013, 13:16
This map will show you where they are, capacity/water/privy, and a photo (usually).
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/hiking/find-a-hike/interactive-map
This distance calculator will show you how far apart they are.
http://www.atdist.com/
Armed with this information, you should have no trouble avoiding the shelters. Except in G.S.M.N.P. where you are pretty much required to use shelters. If you can get space in them.
Follow up question for the AT Experienced: When is the AT NOT in season? A friend & I are in the early planning stage of a 30 day trip next year on the AT beginning at Mile 0. I am leaning toward September-October in an attempt to avoid the crowds. Is that time of year a low travel time on the AT?
Thanks!
Wayne
That is a great time for Georgia. It won't be that cold. There still might be a fair number of people on the trail though.
But, Georgia has a massive hiker glut in March and April. As a result, the shelters are full in March and April. As a result of that,
many camp near the shelters or at makeshift campsites. So if you are hiking in Georgia in September or October, you can count
on plenty of open campsites.
It's about like finding a hotel in Myrtle Beach in November.
Where are you going to hike? There are lots of people hiking the AT in September and October in Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Shenandoah NP, the Smokies. Other parts are less crowded but you'll see more on weekends.
For a 30 day hike, how about starting in Damascus on a weekday and see how much of Virginia you can complete?
My friend aspires to complete the entire AT in sections as time/funds permit. Therefore, he wishes to start at Mile 0 (Springer Mountain, GA) and proceed north.
I realize that the southern section of the AT in GA-TN-NC is probably the most traveled. I was just curious to know if the hoards thin a little after Labor Day when the kidlets all return to school. To be replaced by Geezers such as myself and my hiking partner.
Yes, I knew you said "Mile 0" but if relative solitude was more important, I thought I'd offer an alternative.
Starting at Springer, I don't think weekdays will be too crowded but you'll meet people. And the Smokies will likely have full shelters. If you're not aware, the Smokies now have a fee but as a thruhiker, you don't need reservations (unless that's also changed.)
I wasn't trying to be picky or annoying. My daughter lives in Boone, NC. I reckon since my hiking partner wants to start at the beginning, and Elk Park, NC seems like a reasonable 30 day trip, we can call my daughter from Elk Park and she can come get us.
Why would you want to do that? If you are a thru hiker going thru the GSMNP is as easy as it gets. Its when you are a section hiker that its a PITA.
So, we tell the folks at the Park that we are bound for Mt. Katadin. While transiting G.S.M.N.P. in September or October?
Wayne
max patch
03-12-2013, 14:18
So, we tell the folks at the Park that we are bound for Mt. Katadin. While transiting G.S.M.N.P. in September or October?
Katahdin has nothing to do with it. A thru hiker as defined by the GSMNP is someone who starts their hike 50 miles before they enter the park and ends it 50 miles after they leave the park. And if you meet that definition that is as easy to hike thru the park as there is.
Gray Blazer
03-12-2013, 14:23
If you stay in a shelter ... 2 things ... #1 I hope you like mice getting into your stuff and crawling over you and #2 Bring some ear plugs unless the sound of heavy snoring is relaxing to you.
bigcranky
03-12-2013, 14:24
So, we tell the folks at the Park that we are bound for Mt. Katadin. While transiting G.S.M.N.P. in September or October?
Not necessary. A "thru-hiker" per the Park is someone beginning or ending 50 miles outside the park. Starting at Springer qualifies.
flemdawg1
03-12-2013, 14:25
Todd, the griping about permits here on WB is mostly overlblown (just like the griping about shelters in general,....).
If you stay in a shelter ... 2 things ... #1 I hope you like mice getting into your stuff and crawling over you and #2 Bring some ear plugs unless the sound of heavy snoring is relaxing to you.
I rest my case.
Gray Blazer
03-12-2013, 14:27
If telling the truth is griping I am guilty.
Not necessary. A "thru-hiker" per the Park is someone beginning or ending 50 miles outside the park. Starting at Springer qualifies.
Thank you. That is a big help. I had read about the 50 miles before & after the Park a few weeks ago. I wasn't sure if it still applied under the "new rules." Our problem is solved. More or less.
Wayne
bigcranky
03-12-2013, 14:56
Oop, my mistake and you are correct, must be 50 miles before *and* after the park (I wrote "or.") Here's the new link:
https://smokiespermits.nps.gov/index.cfm?BCPermitTypeID=2
Chaco Taco
03-12-2013, 15:28
alot of your questions can be answered by
1. purchasing a guidebook, which folks on here have told you to do repeatedly. Its not a lot of money
2. doing a search of past threads
3. going on the WB homepage and looking in the right column at all of the direct links to the information you are looking for.
Just sayin.....
Slo-go'en
03-12-2013, 19:55
Full shelters in the Smokies are this thrus dream.
Unless of course its 40 degrees out and raining sideways.
Lone Wolf
03-12-2013, 19:57
Unless of course its 40 degrees out and raining sideways.
still fine with me. too many territorial douchenozzles occupy shelters
Tennessee Viking
03-13-2013, 14:17
Throughout the entire AT corridor, most shelters do not have anything to keep bears away from food. Georgia and parts of North Carolina have cables, Shenandoah NP has poles, New Jersey has metal bear boxes and there's a few other devices scattered here and there but for large swaths of the AT, you hang from the tree.Cables is what I meant.
Cables are only installed by club only if they have the funds and if they feel like a shelter highly attracts bears.
The whole G.S.M.N.P. permit thing seems like a pain. I mean, you have to make reservations, pay a fee, get a permit/license in advance and then what happens if the shelters are all full (but yet you are required to stay in them)?. Are you supposed to wait another year and then try again hoping some vacancies will be open?. What if I want to tent instead to avoid snoring, other things?. Welcome to logistics of the trail. There is no strict limit for thru-hikers. But section/small distance hikers can be limited but get first priority to shelters. Shelters must be full before tenting/hanging can be done. Thrus must make room for section hikers. Most thru-hikers actually like tenting/hanging and usually wait till the end of the day for other hikers before setting up their camp.
If you have lots of beginner questions about hiking the trail. You may want to check the ATC @ appalachiantrail.org, ATC trial guides, and the Companion. Possibly read the backcountry rules for the Smokies. A lot of the questions/answers are broken down and explained.
MuddyWaters
03-13-2013, 18:07
No reason to avoid the GSMNP at all, except maybe in April, and from Memorial day to Labor day.
Shelters arent problems other times, even if booked full, they likely wont be in reality due to no-shows.
Mid-late september is great weather in high elevations.
October if you want to see the colors, nights get nippy.
Summer can be busy, but the bigger problem is water can be scarce.
From Lone Wolf: "douchenozzles"................
Like. :D