Health Insurance [Archive]

Moon Monster

06-21-2005, 11:41

Hi Pammy,

Here are some other threads that discussed health insurance while hiking:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=772&highlight=insurance
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=636&highlight=insurance
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=638&highlight=insurance

There are several options for short term (usually 6 month) bridge policies that you can get independent of any employment. The above threads and Google are the best places to start searching for short term providers. I used Celtic.

Spirit Walker

06-21-2005, 17:12

How did Celtic work for you? Did you ever need to use it?

Someone mentioned that Fortis didn't pay what it was supposed to - but I don't know if that is the norm or just a unique situation.

I have never had insurance on any of my hikes. But now that I'm getting older, I'm a little less trusting in my luck and good health. I may get it next time, just in case.

fiddlehead

06-21-2005, 22:29

stay healthy! it's not hard to do once your in shape. and it's free
"Free is better than Cheap" rainman

Skyline

06-21-2005, 22:48

My plan, already cleared with my boss: Pay 6 mos premiums in advance, should cost around $350.00 (I think, may be more*) & stay on a decent plan.

Where in the world do you find six months of "decent" health insurance for $350? Mine, not that decent, costs me a lot more than that for just ONE month. Of course I'm self-employed, not part of a group. I gotta get on your plan!

rickb

06-22-2005, 08:01

Depending on one's situation it might be worth considering that short-term insurance companies don't renew your policy after the contracted period if you get sick/diagnosed.

That probably becomes more important as you get older, own a home, etc.

The insurance situation in this country sucks.

Moon Monster

06-22-2005, 11:18

How did Celtic work for you? Did you ever need to use it?

I did not need to use Celtic. I had a $1000 deductible--it was only for emergencies that could have bankrupted me.

stay healthy! it's not hard to do once your in shape. and it's free

Come on. Most of us can't go "poof" and control the future. Unexpected injuries can happen even to a bombproof healthy thru-hiker, it's not likely, but it's possible. A thru-hiker companion of mine had several office visits and prescriptions filled to treat lyme disease he contracted in Massachusetts. Anyone could snap an ankle.

Insurance is gambling, but it can make good financial sense depending on your personal situation. Get some rate quotes on the Internet (usually free), check out the Standard & Poor's and Fitch financial strength rating of the company (use Google), and balance the cost versus what an emergency could do to your bank account should you have an expensive accident (only you can make this call).

jackiebolen

06-22-2005, 12:19

I am the epitomy of health! I thought that I didn't need health insurance for my hike but my super-mom convinced me. After 1500 miles, injury free, I came down with the dreaded Ehrilichiosis, from a tick bite. I was very sick and spent a day in the ER...and a couple thousand dollars later.

Lesson learned...how can you control something like that...I used DEET, I did tick checks, etc. but it still happened.

Get insurance! Freak things happen.

fiddlehead

06-22-2005, 23:08

I did not need to use Celtic. I had a $1000 deductible--it was only for emergencies that could have bankrupted me.

Come on. Most of us can't go "poof" and control the future. Unexpected injuries can happen even to a bombproof healthy thru-hiker, it's not likely, but it's possible. A thru-hiker companion of mine had several office visits and prescriptions filled to treat lyme disease he contracted in Massachusetts. Anyone could snap an ankle.

Insurance is gambling, but it can make good financial sense depending on your personal situation. Get some rate quotes on the Internet (usually free), check out the Standard & Poor's and Fitch financial strength rating of the company (use Google), and balance the cost versus what an emergency could do to your bank account should you have an expensive accident (only you can make this call).In 7 thru-hikes, the only major problem i got from hiking was a brown recluse spider bite in '95. This can be a very very serious problem if not treated. I was in VT at the time and went to Rutland Hospital where i was treated (powerful antibiotic shot which solved the problem after 5 days rest) After telling the doctor where i got the bite (thru-hiking the AT) he waived his bill. I had to pay the hospital $150. I was lucky that he was cool. Perhaps his bill would've been $300-500 more.
I believe that 40 minutes a day of a cardiovascular pumping workout (when i am not hiking) keeps me healthy. I rarely get sick, walk through most all of my aches and pains, keep a positive attitude, don't overdo the amount of beer i carry out of town, and always sleep good. (almost always)
Now, if i would've gotten medical insurance for those 7 seasons, i figure it would've cost me aprox. $9,000. And i figure that 9 grand paid for at least 2 of the thu-hikes and perhaps 3. Also, i used to pay insurance to Blue Cross/Blue sheild and stopped when they refused to pay for a visit to the hospital emergency room for an infected finger because they said i waited too long. (this was after i paid them aprox $15,000 over a 7 year period) I swore off medical insurance at that time and haven't had it for 19 years now with no regrets. These guys profit from your worries! (and sometimes don't pay anyway)
To me, a strong immune system and a positive attitude will cure most problems. fh

"The only thing to fear is fear itself"
"If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space!"
"Pain is just weakness leaving the body"

trailfinder

07-21-2005, 22:11

If you are independently wealthy, then you do not need health insurance. However, most of us are not independently wealthy or just plain wealthy. Many health insurance insurers carry short-term health insurance, e.g. six months. Hospital only policies are less expensive then comprehensive major medical policies. The former typically will only reimburse you for say $X per day of hospital confinement. Hopefully, if you are employed then you employer has a group health insurance policy!

TakeABreak

07-22-2005, 06:26

The Hog

07-22-2005, 07:18

I thru hiked the AT without health insurance and had no problems.

Later, I got a real job, well, OK, not quite a real job, but a part-time job with benefits. Then, while section hiking the CDT, I had a long ambulance ride and a hospital visit (for dehydration), then a number of doctor visits for a tick disease. It would have cost a bundle, but health insurance covered most of it. I was glad I was insured.

Still, I kind of agree with Fiddlehead. You have to take control of your own health. Regular exercise, a good diet, enough sleep, no smoking, flossing, using your seatbelt, etc. This will save you a huge amount of money in the long run and generally improve your quality of life. And reduce this country's health care costs.

Health insurance has become absurdly expensive, partly because we're paying for other people's bad health habits. And what you get at the doctor's office isn't necessarily worth it. Most doctor visits are for back trouble and viruses, and modern medicine can't do much for either. You're often prescribed some unnecessary medication that is expensive and carries nasty side effects. I have had numerous visits to our local health center where I come away with a prescription for some medicine that temporarily relieves symptoms, but does nothing for solving the actual problem.

With all the money that we spend on health insurance, we could instead put that (large) chunk of change into a separate savings account that could be used for doctor's visits. In addition, one could get limited catastrophic health care insurance to pay for hospital stays, operations, huge medical calamities. This way, you'd have a built in incentive to keep yourself healthy (you could eventually keep your health savings account), and would be protected against catastrophic care expenses.

Grey Fox

08-01-2005, 07:07

There are several places in Boone (on King Street) that offers a six month health insurance plan for college students just out of school. Got there names written down in Boone, just ask.

Sorcerer

08-01-2005, 09:59

Yeah, you might be in good health and never get sick. What stops you from wrenching a knee, breaking an arm if you fall, or the every so popular get hit by a car while hitchhiking in to town?

If you have nothing to lose (i.e. no house or family to worry about) maybe you can get by without insurance. Those of us with one or more of those things need a little more security than "stay healthy."

I am covered by my employers plan and it doesn't cost me much and I'm very fortunate. I had a bulging disk in my back that sent me for an MRI that cost well over $1000. That's more than I pay for insurance in a year. It's worth the cost for the security.

justusryans

08-01-2005, 19:25

[QUOTE=Sorcerer
I am covered by my employers plan and it doesn't cost me much and I'm very fortunate. I had a bulging disk in my back that sent me for an MRI that cost well over $1000. That's more than I pay for insurance in a year. It's worth the cost for the security.[/QUOTE]

Dude, $1000. for a year? Thats mine and my wifes for a month! That is not including medication that isn't entirely covered. With medication you're looking at about $1600. just for insurance. I'm not sure we are going to be able to continue with coverage while we thru-hike. So, we are just hoping to stay healthy.

Sorcerer

08-06-2005, 14:28

Dude, $1000. for a year? Thats mine and my wifes for a month! That is not including medication that isn't entirely covered. With medication you're looking at about $1600. just for insurance. I'm not sure we are going to be able to continue with coverage while we thru-hike. So, we are just hoping to stay healthy.At least my government job is good for something!! :clap

Icicle

08-06-2005, 16:20

I completely agree that the insurance situation in the States sucks!

My husband and I were able to get "back packers" insurance policies from over here (UK) that cover a myriad of different activities. For example: on my policy it states that I can bungee jump ONCE during the period of the policy, I can abseil up to five times, etc.

It cost us about the equivalent of $400 for 8 months cover (each). It also includes flight delays, stolen baggage, stolen equipment, etc.

It's unfortunate that these sorts of plans are not offered for people in the States.

Deafsmart

08-12-2005, 02:24

Well, I did not have health insurance per say. I do, as a veteran have rights to VA assistance, I figured if i got hurt or sick I would hitch hike, take a bus or pay someone to take me to nearest VA facility. Next time I do plan to carry some kind health insurance, VA hospitals now requires co-pays, and are not always available in an emergency.

Great. For me, it is usually Medicare coverage + Medicare Rx Drug Plan with 3rd party. However, most of medical reimbursements paid out by U.S. government agency are ineffective outside United States and its territories. It is true for Canadian.

Always check for all your benefits to be in place. For example, I would not want Social Security Administration back home in New Mexico to pull me off the trail for 2-4 years benefit review. Without show up for simple interview, your benefit(s) could cut you dry while you are half way done on any such trail(s). Do your homework in junction to your trail planning.

Meanwhile, I plan to get temporary job to supplement my primary [SSD] income before I set out to AT this Spring.

For Department of Veteran Affairs website (http://www.va.gov/)

For U.S. Medicare website (http://www.medicare.gov/)

For Social Security Administration website (http://www.ssa.gov/)

For U.S. Railroad Retirement Board website (http://www.rrb.gov/)

oliander

08-12-2005, 15:16

I'm a financial planner so I'll add my two cents. The main purpose of any type of insurance is not to cover the smaller $500 bills, but to cover a big, catastropic bill (like $20,000, or $500,000) that could bankrupt you should you get a serious injury or disease. If your employer isn't covering your insurance, the best way to cover for that event is to buy cheap, "major medical" insurance with a high limit (at least $1 million) and a high deductible (at least $1000). Usually this is through a "PPO" (not an HMO). Blue Cross is the best bet in many states; I'm 37 and I pay about $80/month in California. Rates can vary a lot from state to state because the laws vary. (For instance, Blue Cross and all the others are outrageous in NY because NY has a law saying Blue Cross can't deny health insurance to anyone; therefore, they have to insure the most sick people and they make everyone share the cost.)

I have a $1000 deductible on my policy, but I'm fine with that. If I get $1000 in medical expenses over the year, it won't bankrupt me. I could try to go for a lower deductible, like $200, but then the policy would cost a lot more per month. Trust me, folks, in insurance class we learned that most insurance companies make their money from persuading people to buy policies with very low deductibles, which jack up your monthly rates considerably. This includes HMO policies. It may sound nice to have a copay of only $15/visit every time you see the doctor, but you are paying bigtime for that privilege, in the form of very highly monthly rates. The cheaper way is to get the higher deductible, reduce your monthly rates and take your chances that you'll have to pay up to $1000 in costs that year.

There is another innovation that I plan to set up soon for myself, since I'm self-employed. If you have a policy (like mine) in place with a high deductible, on top of that you can now set up something called a Health Savings Account. You put dollars into that account that you can then use to pay your direct health costs. You do this because every dollar you put in and take out is tax-deductible. Here is an article:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2003-12-04-mym_x.htm

I agree that the health insurance situation in this country sucks. Until we have universal health coverage, your best bet is to get a high-deductible, major medical policy through a trustworthy company like Blue Cross, to cover the catastrophes. (P.S. I have no affiliation with Blue Cross - just a big fan!)

Oliander

jimmyjob

08-12-2005, 15:19

What do most people do for health insurance while thru-hiking?
shortterm policy.....6 months.....about $200, depending on the coverage you want....

trailtrack21

11-04-2005, 05:07

i'm insured at http://www.insurance-quote-free.com/chris what's great about it is that they'll find you an affordable company that you can go through. my car is also insured with them. aside from being fit by doing daily exercise and healthy food intake, there's still a need to have an insurance.

mnof1000v

11-06-2005, 13:57

This might be the most tricky topic I have tackled yet in my planning.

I'm having a tough time finding coverage for the 6 months I'll be on the trail this spring. I've contacted my current provider, but, considering they're an HMO, and that I won't be at work for those 6 months, that option could get expensive. (I doubt I'll be getting a Leave anyways...) I've heard that you can keep your coverage for up to 18 months after you quit a job - if you're willing to pay the full premium.... HA! I'm not paying that rate for an HMO...

So I looked into Celtic, and some others, but from what I can tell, they're not available to MA residents. Health savings accounts (meantioned elsewhere at whiteblaze) are unavailable as well.

Any suggestions?

What do people know about Cobra plans? From what I understand they are almost useless... Am I wrong?:rolleyes:

trailfinder

11-06-2005, 15:59

You need a short term nongroup policy. Many Blue Cross Blue Shield companies have short term policies. Visit their website and you should be able to get an online quote. Alternatively, get in touch with an independent broker and have him/her search for the best deal.

COBRA policies are for employees who separate from their work usually on a voluntary or involuntary basis other than for gross misconduct. Even though these policies are priced on a group basis they are usually more expensive then nongroup policies.

Hope this helps!

hustler

11-08-2005, 00:37

You should stick it to the man and don't get insurance. Just take care of your body and listen to what it says while you hike and you will be fine.

MorrisseyFan

11-08-2005, 00:54

I'll be able to go on COBRA when I take a long term leave of absence from work, but that will still be around $300/month. Right now my prescription meds would run me about $250/month without insurance, so the COBRA plan makes a lot of sense for me. I'm guessing that I'll just write an ~$1800 check to BC/BS before I go so I don't have to worry about being dropped for lack of payment in the middle of the trip.

fiddlehead

11-08-2005, 08:14

orangebug

11-08-2005, 09:18

Wonderful, blame the AMA when fewer than half physicians belong to any professional organizations.

How about some observation regarding Insurance company ads, linking health insurance to employment, lack of tax benefit for self employed and self insured, sweetheart deals where HMOs pay a small fraction of what a self-pay patients is billed, etc.

You need insurance or a very large sum of money to avoid bankruptcy should you have a catastrophy on the trail. Be prepared to have problems finding orthopedic and other emergency services near the trail. Rural docs and medical facilities are struggling out there.

justusryans

11-08-2005, 09:29

Ahh, the american medical association has done well with most of you folks. some think its a "need" to have health insurance. Is this in the same sentence as: food, shelter, warmth, paying taxes??? someone else here is 26 years old and already is paying $250 a month for meds. My Mom used to take about 23 pills a day. Now, she's down to 4 and working on getting them out of her system.
My mother in law is Thai and has never been to the doctor (she is 76) She does eat those opiates that lots of Asians chew on for pain sometimes but basically is healthy because of her diet. She doesn't exercise very much but eats great.
I just get a kick out of how the AMA has you people hoodliwinked into thinking you gotta take all those drugs. (my Mom was seeing 5 different doctors who had her on 5 different medicine plans, turns out, no one was keeping track of ALL OF it and the clashes the side effects were doing to each other, but that's the way they work) And Merck and Co. keeping making bigger and bigger bucks.

While I agree that many physicians over prescribe medication, that doesn't mean that there aren't people who sincerely need their medication.
I am a Bipolar 1 aka Manic Depressive, my wife is *****zoaffective. We rely on medication to stay sane. It is a very fine balancing act for us. The last time I went manic I thought I was Jesus's brother, saw demons everywhere, heard voices, and could fly. Not a good thing! My wife is even worse. BUT, when we are on our medication and are stable, we are as normal as anyone out there.
It is a very scary thing to KNOW you are going insane.
There are many other illnesses out there that are just as important to treat medically. Lupus, Diabeties, Aids, ect... I just spoke about what I know about.
While there are doctors out there who overprescribe medications, it's important you find a good one you can trust. Then let them know what medication you are on. It can take time for medication to become effective.
Do I think the AMA is profit motivated? Sure, but so what. Profit is not a dirty word. Now ask me is I think drug companies participate in price gouging?

If you would like to know more then check this link out www.nami.org (http://www.nami.org)

justusryans

11-08-2005, 09:31

fiddlehead

11-08-2005, 09:35

Yeah, yeah, yeah, i've heard it all before. Fact is: I've "needed" medical care once in 7 thrus and it cost me $300.
Your fears can cost you a lot if you don't keep them in check.

fiddlehead

11-08-2005, 09:43

While I agree that many physicians over prescribe medication, that doesn't mean that there aren't people who sincerely need their medication.
I am a Bipolar 1 aka Manic Depressive, my wife is *****zoaffective. We rely on medication to stay sane. It is a very fine balancing act for us. The last time I went manic I thought I was Jesus's brother, saw demons everywhere, heard voices, and could fly. Not a good thing! My wife is even worse. BUT, when we are on our medication and are stable, we are as normal as anyone out there.
It is a very scary thing to KNOW you are going insane.
There are many other illnesses out there that are just as important to treat medically. Lupus, Diabeties, Aids, ect... I just spoke about what I know about.
While there are doctors out there who overprescribe medications, it's important you find a good one you can trust. Then let them know what medication you are on. It can take time for medication to become effective.
Do I think the AMA is profit motivated? Sure, but so what. Profit is not a dirty word. Now ask me is I think drug companies participate in price gouging?

If you would like to know more then check this link out www.nami.org (http://www.nami.org)
I realize there's times when meds are very helpful. Your point is well taken. My point is that the overprescribing of meds is an everyday abuse that is not only causing terrible side effects problems in folks who don't need them, but also is contributing to this bird flu scare because the medical experts realize that we overprescribe antibiotics so much that they are becoming ineffective. Not to mention the price of drugs in this country is the highest in the world. I'm sorry to hear you have these problems, I imagine hiking is a good medicine also. Being in tune with Nature is good for a lot of things.

justusryans

11-08-2005, 09:47

You know, I don't have insurance simply because we can't afford it. Most of my extra money is spent on medication. However my doc knows I'm broke so he works with me. It's like anything else there are good and bad ones.
i won't debate this further.

rickb

11-08-2005, 09:57

Now ask me if I think drug companies participate in price gouging?

If it troubles you, consider doing what Michael Moore does-- buy stock in the companies you criticize. That way you get to take the moral high ground and reap the kinds of benefits at least one hiker on this list reaped from Exxon/Mobil :D

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47174

the goat

11-08-2005, 10:11

If it troubles you, consider doing what Michael Moore does-- buy stock in the companies you criticize. That way you get to take the moral high ground and reap the kinds of benefits....

i came across this book yesterday. hilarious, evidently the hypocrisy of some knows no bounds.

Alligator

11-08-2005, 11:28

Ahh, the american medical association has done well with most of you folks. some think its a "need" to have health insurance. Is this in the same sentence as: food, shelter, warmth, paying taxes??? someone else here is 26 years old and already is paying $250 a month for meds. My Mom used to take about 23 pills a day. Now, she's down to 4 and working on getting them out of her system.
My mother in law is Thai and has never been to the doctor (she is 76) She does eat those opiates that lots of Asians chew on for pain sometimes but basically is healthy because of her diet. She doesn't exercise very much but eats great.
I just get a kick out of how the AMA has you people hoodliwinked into thinking you gotta take all those drugs. (my Mom was seeing 5 different doctors who had her on 5 different medicine plans, turns out, no one was keeping track of ALL OF it and the clashes the side effects were doing to each other, but that's the way they work) And Merck and Co. keeping making bigger and bigger bucks.
You really need to walk a mile or two in other people's shoes FH. Consider a disease like Multiple Sclerosis. It is imperative that people with this disease get on medication to reduce relapses. MS is a disease that can cause numerous physical disabilities and even death. The costs for these drugs are over $800.00+/month, making the yearly total a cool $10,000.00 (minimum). If you do not have health insurance, it will be extremely difficult to ever get insurance after diagnosis (pre-existing condition). And if you get a disease like MS, you may never earn a full salary again. That ain't fear talking, that's reality grasshopper.

It's great that you may never have needed insurance FH. Consider yourself lucky.

Don't be foolish. Never let your medical insurance lapse.

fiddlehead

11-08-2005, 11:51

You really need to walk a mile or two in other people's shoes FH. Consider a disease like Multiple Sclerosis. It is imperative that people with this disease get on medication to reduce relapses. MS is a disease that can cause numerous physical disabilities and even death. The costs for these drugs are over $800.00+/month, making the yearly total a cool $10,000.00 (minimum). If you do not have health insurance, it will be extremely difficult to ever get insurance after diagnosis (pre-existing condition). And if you get a disease like MS, you may never earn a full salary again. That ain't fear talking, that's reality grasshopper.

It's great that you may never have needed insurance FH. Consider yourself lucky.

Don't be foolish. Never let your medical insurance lapse.

Although i am very thankful that i don't have MS, my niece has it. After battling with it for 3 years and having 6 different doctors prescribing many different prescriptions, she decided to go off all drugs about 4 months ago. She is telling me that she hasn't felt this good in years. This is precisely my point. I've walked in pain, with pharmacists who told me that i should be taking 24 Ibuprofins a day even though 1 was sufficient. I argued with them until i gave up. I'm not claiming to know it all. I'm only trying to open some closed minds. Perhaps you think mine is one of them, perhaps you are right but i try to keep it open whenever i can.

trailfinder

11-08-2005, 11:55

Hustler,

If you do not secure health insurance coverage while you are backpackign then you are taking a change of having the "man" stick it to you. If you are injuried while backpacking you most likely will go to an ER. This can be VERY expensive and can be avoided by just securing a "short-term" health insurance policy. Is it expensive - yes - but not as expensive as the cost of entering an ER without insurance.

Whistler

11-08-2005, 12:00

I like Oliander's advice. Low monthly, high deductible. Insure for catastrophe, not for colds and check-ups. But back it up with real-life savings. [Which is a rarity in the U.S. these days.] Plow the money you would otherwise be spending on the high premium into CDs or a money market account.

I went with a long-term plan with Blue Cross, because I didn''t have a guaranteed job to come back to afterwards. I'm still on the same plan, which ends up at a whopping $90 a month because I'm a wild and reckless young male.

Free advice from a non-certified miser/ finance nerd. If you are older, married, female, inactive, in poor health, a smoker, or have children, my advice may not work for you.:)
-Mark

Alligator

11-08-2005, 12:31

Although i am very thankful that i don't have MS, my niece has it. After battling with it for 3 years and having 6 different doctors prescribing many different prescriptions, she decided to go off all drugs about 4 months ago. She is telling me that she hasn't felt this good in years. This is precisely my point. I've walked in pain, with pharmacists who told me that i should be taking 24 Ibuprofins a day even though 1 was sufficient. I argued with them until i gave up. I'm not claiming to know it all. I'm only trying to open some closed minds. Perhaps you think mine is one of them, perhaps you are right but i try to keep it open whenever i can.
That's certainly your niece's peorogative. Hopefully your niece has had yearly MRI's and will continue to do so to track the progression of her illness. I hope she keeps her medical coverage in case she changes her mind. All the major MS drugs (Betason, Avonex, and Copaxon) reduce the incidence of plaques in the brain and demonstrate significant reductions in both the severity and frequency of exacerbations. These are real results, believe me when I say to you that I fully comprehend the statistical results and I am not involved in any way with the pharmaceutical/medical industry.

The side effects of MS drugs are difficult to bear for some people, and may not improve over time. It's a lousy disease with less than kind medicines. But IMO, your niece is taking the short term solution. Certainly she feels better NOW, but down the road, she faces sooner chances for serious physical disabilities. Four month is a very short time. What your niece cannot see are the formations of plaque on her brain (sans MRI). It is the position of the National Multiple Sclerosis Society (in top 100 charitable organizations for efficiency) that upon diagnosis of MS that the patient immediately start treatment and not wait. By delaying the ravages of this disease, she may have the opportunity to benefit from a real cure in the future. I hope she changes her mind. Either way, I'll be riding for her next fall in the MS150.

mnof1000v

11-08-2005, 14:56

I think it is foolish to go out into any backcountry situation without some sort of major medical insurance. The problem with not having insurance, as I see, has nothing to do with minor scrapes or colds. Should you be legitimately injured, a situation in which you HAVE to leave the trail, the resulting medical bill could be ridiculous.

At the same time, whether you like it or not, insurance is a cost-benefit analysis by the companies that supply it. And that's at the heart of the problem. So I understand why so many of you don't think insurance on a hike is important.

However, should you not have insurance during a long-term hike, and you get injured, you might have certain long-term added costs in your future - they're called "pre-existing conditions." Insurance companies use that term to denote injuries or illnesses that you suffered during times in which you have no insurance, or did not seek proper care. Many policies will not cover such pre-existing conditions in the future - that is, when you come back to the real world after the trail.

So, for me, I think I'm still going with rather than without. It's a cost I'm willing to bear, understanding I'll likely not need it. Some people I'm sure will disagree as witnessed by the previous posts.:datz

mnof1000v

11-08-2005, 14:59

"So I understand why so many of you don't think insurance on a hike is important."

Sorry, I failed to edit my post before posting it... Should have read "So I understand why so many of you don't think insurance on a hike is NOT important."

fiddlehead

11-08-2005, 18:01

That's certainly your niece's peorogative. Hopefully your niece has had yearly MRI's and will continue to do so to track the progression of her illness. I hope she keeps her medical coverage in case she changes her mind. All the major MS drugs (Betason, Avonex, and Copaxon) reduce the incidence of plaques in the brain and demonstrate significant reductions in both the severity and frequency of exacerbations. These are real results, believe me when I say to you that I fully comprehend the statistical results and I am not involved in any way with the pharmaceutical/medical industry.

The side effects of MS drugs are difficult to bear for some people, and may not improve over time. It's a lousy disease with less than kind medicines. But IMO, your niece is taking the short term solution. Certainly she feels better NOW, but down the road, she faces sooner chances for serious physical disabilities. Four month is a very short time. What your niece cannot see are the formations of plaque on her brain (sans MRI). It is the position of the National Multiple Sclerosis Society (in top 100 charitable organizations for efficiency) that upon diagnosis of MS that the patient immediately start treatment and not wait. By delaying the ravages of this disease, she may have the opportunity to benefit from a real cure in the future. I hope she changes her mind. Either way, I'll be riding for her next fall in the MS150.

I appreciate your concern and will print this out and show it to her. She told me she researched it on the internet before making her decision. She seems much better to me.
I believe that in most people (your average, healthy thru-hiker for sure) will do just fine if they get enough exercise and/or eat properly. Obviously a thru-hike is enough exercise and you can eat whatever you want. I'm talking about after (or before) a thru-hike when we tend to fatten up eating the so called American diet (supersize it comes to mind) Many doctors in other parts of the world will pprescribe to their patients that they should eat differently or add minerals/vitamins to their diet BEFORE piling on the pharmaceuticals. They don't think that way back home, (US) and that was my point.
I too hope they find a cure for MS and thank you kindly for your efforts in that regard.

As for the major catastrophe, i don't see it happening out there. I knew a girl who got hit by lightning and they took her to the hospital overnight. (left her go in the morning) I've heard of people breaking a leg (while thru-hiking) but have never met one. I've never met anyone who was been snakebit. Thru-hikers are some of the healthiest people i've ever met.

Papa Razzi

11-08-2005, 18:46

Catastrophes can and do happen. While I didn't suffer anything during my thruhike that required medical attention, I know a hiker who was bitten by a rabid raccoon, another who developed a staph infection in his finger, one who had a pretty bad disentary infection, and a couple of folks who came down with lime disease or some other tick-bourne illnesses. I'm of the opinion that if you can afford a modest policy to cover yourself, it's money well spent even if you never have to use it.

Papa Razzi

mnof1000v

11-15-2005, 13:16

It seems Blue Cross is very quick to respond to email requests for information. I've sent them a few emails, and within one day I typically recieve a response....
:clap

fiddlehead

11-15-2005, 14:18

Be careful with blue cross. The reason i cancelled my insurance was because i got hurt kayaking once and didn't go to the hospital for 36 hours. They wouldn't cover it (needed stiches) because they said it was no longer an emergency after 24 hours. These companies will rip you off if they can. (i never bought health insurance again after that surprise)

orangebug

11-15-2005, 15:37

fiddlehead

11-15-2005, 18:43

They were right. It wasn't hemorhaging. It was late, very late, for stitches to be a good idea. It still needed looking at regarding need for debridement, antibiotics and foreign body entrapment, but an Urgent Care clinic or regular doctor's office would have been appropriate.

I don't know who you think was right. Fact was, i got the stiches, it's just that Blue Cross refused to pay for it. I paid them $237 a month for 9 years and that was the only time i tried to make a claim. They wouldn't pay. That was in '87. Since then, i haven't had health insurance. I went to the OR twice, once while hiking, it cost $360. The other time was while traveling out west and it cost me $509. Two other times i needed medical treatment, once was in Austrailia where they wouldn't charge me. (said they had national health care and it even covered me) the other was in Spain (same thing, no charge, the govt of Spain paid)
So, if i had been like most folks, i guess i would've paid $237 a month (it's probably higher by now) for the last 18 years and possibly wouldn't have been covered for those 2 times i went. One was a brown recluse spider bite, and the other was an infected finger, and most likely Blue Cross would NOT have covered either one as i didn't get there within 24 hours. (that's why they told me they wouldn't pay for it)
My point is that you can spend your hard earned money (or maybe it comes to you easier than me) if you like but that is NO GUARANTEE that they are going to cover you anyway. The choice (of course) is yours. I made mine.

Nean

11-15-2005, 19:19

Call me "foolish". Never had it, never thought about it, never needed it. Then again, I'm only a young 45 and haven't spent that much time on the trail or livin life, so my perspective is a wee bit skewed. Then, by chance, I discover I'm covered by the VA for life. The fool ended up on the hill. Yeehaaaa;)

gravityman

11-15-2005, 19:56

My point is that you can spend your hard earned money (or maybe it comes to you easier than me) if you like but that is NO GUARANTEE that they are going to cover you anyway. The choice (of course) is yours. I made mine.

A lot of people seem to misunderstand what heath insurance is all about. It is INSURANCE - it's point isn't to make you whole if you are hurt or need treatment, it's to limit the financial loss in the case of an accident. Chances are you would have had to pay a deductible for the stitches anyway, so it probably didn't matter to your pocket book if they accepted your claim or not.

The point is, if you ended up needing a kidney transplant or an artificial limb, or something, they would have covered. You're lucky, you didn't need that.

So, should you have health insurance? It depends on what you have to lose. If you don't have any appreciable assets, and you don't mind losing all of your worldly possessions, then no, you don't need it. You can throw yourself on the taxpayers good will and enjoy the productive work of others. But if you have assets that you would like to protect, like a house, a car or a bank account, then you probably should have health insurance. It doesn't mean that you won't have to pay SOMETHING for your medical treatments, but it does mean you won't lose all the things that you have worked so hard to have. Of course, if all you've done is hike, then you don't have any of those things, and you can just stick someone else with the bill.

Gravity

rickb

11-15-2005, 20:18

I think the cost of an average heart attack is about $40K.

But that's what they charge the insurance companies. If you offer to pay cash (even in advance) you won't get their discount and would have to pay about double, I think.

Of course if you can't pay, other people will pick up the tab. But only after they drive you into bankruptcy.

orangebug

11-16-2005, 08:37

Rick has the basic concept correct about being responsible for your debts versus sticking it to taxpayers and those who actually save your cookies in the ER.

Gravity has the quaint but outdated opinion that we can actually buy Insurance. Insurance dissappeared back in the 80's, beginning with Nixon's parting shot of allowing large companies to self insure via HMO's and managed care companies. What we have now are not insurance pools based on large populations and averaging/sharing costs, but schemes to limit care and to isolate insurance companies from risk. If you aren't employed by government or an employer, your ability to buy any sort of coverage is severely limited.

Your health care dollar is increasingly spent on administrative, advertising and stock holder/coporate benefits. Not for profit hospitals and charity care are fading into the past. The complexity of the Hilliary Plan is now replaced by opaque managed care schemes. Pay attention what your parents are currently exploring - Medicare Part D choices are not for the faint of heart.

BTW, when you hit your 50's and attempt to buy "insurance" after years of going uninsured or contracting any of the usual chronic conditions of aging, hypertension for instance, I think you will find you monthly premiums (assuming you can get any sort of coverage) will compare to your mortgage. If you are still paying out of pocket for medical care, expect that pocket to dwindle while paying full fees after the managed care companies have extorted bargain basement deals from the local "provider."