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l84toff
03-12-2013, 12:44
Wondering if there are any Primal or Paleo eaters in the house? This is not intended to be a what should you eat on the trail to stay healthy discussion, I'm not looking for arguments for or against eating grains, complex carbs or different diets in general. What I would like to know is if anyone here is Primal and has done the AT, either a thru or sections and what you did as far as food along the way? My initial thought is dehydrate most of my own meals ahead of time, although everything I read is that doing the entire trail with meals made ahead of time doesn't work because your tastes change. It also seems like a lot of drop boxes to mail out. But you could simply create a huge variety of meals so as not to get bored with your food and supplement with town stops for fresh produce and meat.

There has to be a way to do a thru hike primal (ish)....:-?. I realize things look different on paper and when planning, I mean to me it looks possible, I'm just wondering if it's been done successfully...or not and how?

I have a feeling I'm going to hear a lot of crickets in this thread.

Pingus
03-12-2013, 13:16
Could only guess as to what 'paleo' or 'primal' means in this regard. I doubt I'm alone on this one.

treesloth
03-12-2013, 13:38
Could only guess as to what 'paleo' or 'primal' means in this regard. I doubt I'm alone on this one.

I'm sure L84toff will have more to add, but it's a relatively new way of nutrition and eating. Basically, eat like our early ancestors did. Since grains were introduced to our diets about 10K years ago, a belief is that our bodies have not genetically been able to adapt to them. Grain products (especially those found in processed foods) spike our insulin levels and cause inflammation, as do those with HFCS (high fructose corn syrup). The more I learn about it, the more I realize how such products make us fat and keep us fat. The Atkins diet, though unhealthy, was proven to help people lose weight. Paleo takes it a step further by eliminating grains, sugars, processed foods and the like. The not-allowed foods are not unreasonable, but it takes some wherewithal to stick to it.

With this rationale, LD hikers eat loads of processed and high-sugar foods and inflame themselves on a daily basis. The only difference between them and someone who's not doing lots of rigorous activity daily is that they're not gaining weight. And how could they not eat this kind of stuff? You think I want to eat apples and almonds after hiking 20 miles? That takes some serious discipline if you ask me. The diet does allow meat products, but again, while on the trail this can be a difficult methodology to stick to.

I think that this will come more to light as we continue to learn more about it. There are people who keep themselves in fine physical shape, but still end up needing bypass surgery. Eating lots of high Glycemic Index foods may be the very result. Do your own research.

Pingus
03-12-2013, 13:40
Wow Treesloth. Not sure I need to do my own research now. Seems you pretty much nailed it. Thanks! :)

Pingus
03-12-2013, 13:41
Now gotta go sharpen my spears and find me a woolly mamoth... :)

Rasty
03-12-2013, 13:43
Didn't our ancestors die fairly young?

treesloth
03-12-2013, 13:43
Wow Treesloth. Not sure I need to do my own research now. Seems you pretty much nailed it. Thanks! :)

You're welcome. :) I suggested to do your own as mine not be 100% accurate; I still continue to find more info on it, but for my last reply I'm mainly paraphrasing from a book I read about a month or so ago.

treesloth
03-12-2013, 13:45
Didn't our ancestors die fairly young?

Absolutely! But I'm guessing heart disease and obesity wasn't the culprit.

Pingus
03-12-2013, 13:45
You're welcome. :) I suggested to do your own as mine not be 100% accurate; I still continue to find more info on it, but for my last reply I'm mainly paraphrasing from a book I read about a month or so ago.

Well it was a champion-caliber synopsis. Thank you again. :) .... Just kidding about the woolly mamoth thing.

Pingus
03-12-2013, 13:47
Didn't our ancestors die fairly young?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_1I7KiCuAU4k/S-zMC3ff8XI/AAAAAAAAF2E/7AArHpg8F40/s1600/thagomizer_thag_simmons_kidicarus222.jpg

jeffmeh
03-12-2013, 14:17
Wondering if there are any Primal or Paleo eaters in the house? This is not intended to be a what should you eat on the trail to stay healthy discussion, I'm not looking for arguments for or against eating grains, complex carbs or different diets in general. What I would like to know is if anyone here is Primal and has done the AT, either a thru or sections and what you did as far as food along the way? My initial thought is dehydrate most of my own meals ahead of time, although everything I read is that doing the entire trail with meals made ahead of time doesn't work because your tastes change. It also seems like a lot of drop boxes to mail out. But you could simply create a huge variety of meals so as not to get bored with your food and supplement with town stops for fresh produce and meat.

There has to be a way to do a thru hike primal (ish)....:-?. I realize things look different on paper and when planning, I mean to me it looks possible, I'm just wondering if it's been done successfully...or not and how?

I have a feeling I'm going to hear a lot of crickets in this thread.

I have thought about it, and done a bunch of google searches, but I have not found much in terms of people who have actually kept to it for a full thru-hike.

You could make pemmican and live on it, but that would likely get pretty old.

I would expect that as a practical matter you would just moderate rather than eliminate the grains and legumes, unless you were really sensitive to something (e.g., celiac disease). And try to go for the ones that are less of a problem for you, e.g., favoring rice over wheat. I also would likely concede a bit of sugar and preservatives in something like jerky, and perhaps a larger "cheat" once or twice a week. I do think that you will be burning so many calories that moderate amounts would likely not be too problematic, unless you have an acute sensitivity.

That said, fill up with fresh food at town stops, carry some with you and eat it before it spoils, carry hard cheeses if you do dairy, nuts, seeds, dried fruit, coconut, coconut oil, etc. If there is something you really like that you will be unlikely to find, do a few mail drops with it.

The real challenge will be when you get to a resupply point that is just a convenience store with very few good choices.

I'm interested to see what you come up with. It is difficult enough to find good nutrition on the trail in sufficient caloric content, even if you define that much more broadly than paleo or primal.

jeffmeh
03-12-2013, 14:20
Also, you may want to post this in the Straight Through forum if it starts to veer way off-topic.

The Old Boot
03-12-2013, 14:24
Wondering if there are any Primal or Paleo eaters in the house? This is not intended to be a what should you eat on the trail to stay healthy discussion, I'm not looking for arguments for or against eating grains, complex carbs or different diets in general. What I would like to know is if anyone here is Primal and has done the AT, either a thru or sections and what you did as far as food along the way? My initial thought is dehydrate most of my own meals ahead of time, although everything I read is that doing the entire trail with meals made ahead of time doesn't work because your tastes change. It also seems like a lot of drop boxes to mail out. But you could simply create a huge variety of meals so as not to get bored with your food and supplement with town stops for fresh produce and meat.

There has to be a way to do a thru hike primal (ish)....:-?. I realize things look different on paper and when planning, I mean to me it looks possible, I'm just wondering if it's been done successfully...or not and how?

I have a feeling I'm going to hear a lot of crickets in this thread.

Dietary restrictions aside, you've got a bigger problem in that mailing drop boxes across the border is extremely costly, unreliable in terms of time frames for delivery AND a lot of food stuffs just won't clear the border restrictions for food products.

IMO, as a fellow Canadian, the only choice you've got is to figure out what you can buy stateside and find someone down there to be your mail person. Plan on spending sufficient time stateside before you start your hike to deal with it all, some can be pre-purchased and drop shipped. You'll also save tremendous amounts of money on shipping charges.

Feral Bill
03-12-2013, 14:55
Didn't our ancestors die fairly young? If you don't count childhood diseases and accidents as adults, maybe not. I'm not sure anyone really knows. Not a lot of actuarial records from the paleolithic.

l84toff
03-12-2013, 15:24
@pingus - sorry I didn't go into more detail of what that is. My thought is if someone had to ask what that means, odds are they probably do not eat Primal and have not thru-hiked doing so. No disrespect, but they probably won't be able to answer the question.

treesloth nailed it quite well. Primal is something my wife and I have been doing for some time and like the way we feel, a lot. As far as weight loss, for me personally that was never the goal but I went from 200 to 175 and most importantly all my inflammation issues disappeared completely. Once in a while I cave in and have something that I used to have (like pasta) and am quickly reminded what it does to my body and how crappy I feel for days afterwards. Usually one meal like that the odd week I can tolerate but eating like that for a couple of days, I have learned that it's just not worth it. @treesloth - another good book of similar flavour is Wheat Belly, not exactly about being Primal but my wife has read me enough to be turned off wheat forever.

I'm not preaching to anyone here, eat how you want to eat and HYOH, by all means. But if I eat like the average hiker does, I will not be able to finish my hike. This is something that works for us and I am looking for a way to continue that on the trail. On a positive note, my wife and I (and both kids in fact) are planning on our thru starting May 2014 so we have lots of time to work it out and test out what works and what doesn't hopefully.

@The Old Boot - mailing from Canada is not an option, I'm painfully aware of the cost of doing so. I have some friends in the states I was hoping would help us out as far as mail drops.

If every town stop or food re-supply stop had a decent supermarket our quest would become much easier.

Wise Old Owl
03-12-2013, 16:23
If you go primal does that include eating other slow heavy hikers?:rolleyes:

http://paleodiet.com/definition.htm

forget my sense of humor for a moment... they have been practicing the Paleo - Primal diet in Africa for 100,000 years and they are still starving... just saying.

I just watched - the wild west of the internet on this subject and all I can say there are some nut jobs out there... be careful...

JAK
03-12-2013, 16:41
I like to go as primaeval as practical even at home. Besides health reason, I think there is a certain aesthetic that goes along with it, and this is particularly appropriate when hiking trails like the AT. I like to think about what sorts of foods people would have travelled, and lived on, years ago. The 100 mile diet was pretty much a given 1000 to 10,000 years ago.

aficion
03-12-2013, 16:54
[QUOTE=treesloth;1437494]I'm sure L84toff will have more to add, but it's a relatively new way of nutrition and eating. Basically, eat like our early ancestors did.

Ummm. Relatively new? How bout really, really old? Great way to be healthy from what I've read. Will try at home first.

treesloth
03-12-2013, 17:04
@treesloth - another good book of similar flavour is Wheat Belly, not exactly about being Primal but my wife has read me enough to be turned off wheat forever.

I read WellMan: Live Longer by Controlling Inflammation, by Dr. Graham Simpson. He has clinics all over the country. Though more geared towards males, there's a wealth of eye-opening info for anyone. I've even went so far as to buy a recipe book called "Well Fed - Paleo recipes for people who love to eat". I try to institute this way of nutrition, but old habits die hard. I'm very thankful that I've been blessed with some good genetics.

How to possibly maintain a Paleo nutrition lifestyle while on the trail seems like a daunting challenge to me at best. That kind of hunger, coupled with readily-available processed food choices, with test the mettle of even the most dedicated, I'd believe. I give kudos to anyone who'd be able to do it.

And just to think, not too entirely long ago, that was the ONLY way to travel.. there were no nutrition 'choices'. LD hikers often have a hassle finding just water these days. How about the migratory peoples who had to worry about finding their whole meal, while on the move? We are rather spoiled in these times. :)

rocketsocks
03-12-2013, 17:38
I read WellMan: Live Longer by Controlling Inflammation, by Dr. Graham Simpson. He has clinics all over the country. Though more geared towards males, there's a wealth of eye-opening info for anyone. I've even went so far as to buy a recipe book called "Well Fed - Paleo recipes for people who love to eat". I try to institute this way of nutrition, but old habits die hard. I'm very thankful that I've been blessed with some good genetics.

How to possibly maintain a Paleo nutrition lifestyle while on the trail seems like a daunting challenge to me at best. That kind of hunger, coupled with readily-available processed food choices, with test the mettle of even the most dedicated, I'd believe. I give kudos to anyone who'd be able to do it.

And just to think, not too entirely long ago, that was the ONLY way to travel.. there were no nutrition 'choices'. LD hikers often have a hassle finding just water these days. How about the migratory peoples who had to worry about finding their whole meal, while on the move? We are rather spoiled in these times. :)......................mark, testing testing 1,2,3, testing

garlic08
03-12-2013, 18:09
Crickets? You're new here, aren't you? Everyone has an opinion (or two), whether they know anything about the subject or not.

My wife is a type 1 diabetic on a paleo diet, and a past thru-hiker. It remains to be seen whether she can continue thru hiking on the paleo diet. We know some ultra-runners on paleo, and they're having a difficult time with it.

We also met this guy on our CDT hike: http://www.rawhike.com/. Not paleo, but interesting.

JAK
03-12-2013, 18:45
As far as meat goes, for resupply you could buy 10 pounds of fresh meat in town and haul it to the trail and have a feast on a few pounds while drying the rest into jerky. Or you could just buy jerky, but the former would be way more fun and totally primaeval, especially in bug season. You would also have to fight off bears, coyotes, and thru-hikers.

Kookork
03-12-2013, 19:31
Since OP is from Ontario he definitely knows about Tamagami. I used to go canoeing and hiking alone( with my dog) in that region frequently.The longest for 4 weeks long. I was not able to carry too much food since portage with a backpack and a canoe ( in my case inflatable kayak) was difficult so I started to rely on hunting and especially fishing to supply my food especially after the day 7 to 10. That was not a diet by choice but the only viable option I had.

I always had problem for the first few days adapting to the meat dominant diet ( and I am a meatetarian in normal life) but to my surprise after a few days I could hike and canoe better than before. I have to be honest there were times that I was dreaming about a loaf of bread or a plate of rice all night long and I was ready to trade a big Lake trout with just a small loaf of bread but that was more about me being a gourmet type of guy.

Long story short , I always lost a few pounds but felt really fresh and live. Upon coming back to civilization and my routine diet I always had problem adjusting to grain and wheat again and I used to fall in sleep and feel extremely lazy after having bread or rice or other type of wheat.

So if your body is adjusted( and is enjoying) such a diet I see no problem that you could make it work. Body's adaptation to natural diet is unbelievable.

Wise Old Owl
03-12-2013, 19:53
Yea I can get into that.... done it before... awesome... any trouble getting the fish into the Kayak?

Kookork
03-12-2013, 20:12
Yea I can get into that.... done it before... awesome... any trouble getting the fish into the Kayak?

Catching a fish in an inflatable Kayak is very tricky and sometimes you may end up puncturing your kayak. I use my empty open backpack laid on the floor of kayak to guide the fish from the water right to my backpack( my backpack smells fishy all the time no matter how many times I clean it) but the real problem fishing in an inflatable kayak is that the fish drags you and kayak wherever it wants until it gets tired. Once a big lake trout dragged me for about half a mile like I was a toy and when I finally caught the fish it was just around 4 pounds.

Wise Old Owl
03-12-2013, 20:53
Yea that's been my experience with a pike... I cut him loose ...

k2basecamp
03-12-2013, 21:12
My dogs eat Primal brand dog food. Its a bit heavy.

Rocket Jones
03-13-2013, 07:32
I've been eating paleo/primal for about a year now, off and on ("old habits die hard" is putting it mildly!).

Some possible strategies for the trail include:

proteins - beef jerky, pouched tuna, salmon and chicken, canned sardines, quinoa.
plants - dehydrated veggies from Harmony House or do your own. With the heavy exercise of long distance hiking, you could easily include potatoes, sweet potatoes and butternut squash into your diet without worries. Fruit too.
misc - if you can tolerate dairy, all kinds of cheese. Yogurt and cottage cheese when you can hit a real grocery store. For trail mix, any combo of dried fruit, sunflower/pumpkin seeds, macadamia nuts, almonds, walnuts, etc. Dried seaweed to mix into your dinners for the minerals (weighs nothing). Make your own bars using honey. Add honey to your tea and olive oil, ghee and/or parmesan cheese to your meals for the calories.

Like mentioned above, eating paleo on the trail isn't terribly difficult, but getting enough calories can be. Also, like vegetarians, I believe that sometimes you're just going to have to be flexible about eating what's available at resupply.

WingedMonkey
03-13-2013, 09:00
Can one of you cave man followers explain to me where the dairy products came from back then?

Prada
03-13-2013, 09:02
I eat strict paleo and have been experimenting with it on the trail for the last 6 months. I'm not a thru-hiker, so I can't really comment on that aspect, but I truly believe your willpower is going to have something to do with that. I feel SO MUCH BETTER in life being paleo and have so much more athletic ability than ever before, so my desire to stick to the diet would drive me a bit there. I can also get by, still building muscle, on much less food bulk than before on grains, etc. I do CrossFit 5-6 days a week, so my activity level is pretty high of the trail as well. As long as I am balancing the proteins, carbs, and healthy fats I always seem to get the energy I need from my food. I will say that at times, depending on what I carry, it can be heavier than traditional trail food. But it's worth the sacrifice to me to feel good and get the performance. I also heal so much quicker, no joint stiffness or muscle soreness. Sleep like a baby, and I find my temperature is more easily controlled (don't get to hot or cold as easily).

Typical hiking food now includes:
Protein:
1. foil packets pink salmon and tuna (the chicken ones give me indigestion...)
2. homemade beef jerky
3. Paleo Kits ( http://stevesoriginal.com/ ) and his Paleo Crunch bars
4. Boiled eggs (keep for several days in a tupperware not peeled)
5. AMRAP bars ( http://www.amrapnutrition.com/ ) one of my favorite snacks, period. soooooooo good, and packs a punch for 300 healthy calories in 2.3 oz, 21g fat, 22g carbs, and 14g protein)
6. Homemade dehydrated tomato/meat/sausage sauce... and as gross as it sounds, I really like to eat mine with shredded coconut in it (mimicking spaghetti). It gives it more bulk, texture, and some nice sweetness.
Carbs:
1. Homemade dehydrated blueberries and strawberries
2. Carrots, oranges, and apples (again, heavy, but ok for just getting on the trail or just out of a town)
3. Homemade dehydrated sweet potatoes (can LIVE on these dipped in coconut oil, oh yeah!!!) and homemade dehydrated mashed white potatoes
4. Bananas and homemade dehydrated banana slices (amazing dipped in coconut oil, almond butter, or occasionally nutella, but I have to watch the dairy and it has skim milk powder in it)
5. Honey on everything, YES, I carry a "honey bear" on the trail, LOL
6. I might eat rice in a pinch. It's not paleo, but it does't seem to bother me as much as other grains, but it still makes me feel sluggish.
Healthy Fats:
1. Almond butter (raw, not from toasted almonds)
2. Olive oil
3. Coconut oil ( I tend to just eat this like candy... soooo yummy)
4. Shredded coconut
5. Almonds, walnuts, pumpkin and sunflower seeds.
6. real butter (snag small foil packets when out to eat)
7. avocados ( treats for day one back on trail and when in town devour tons of them)

I don't do dairy at all anymore (discovered an intolerance) but that is totally up to the individual. I'm a little different than some, can eat the same thing for weeks on end, because my thinking has totally changed about food. It is just fuel now. It doesn't matter to me if it's the same daily.

When faced with a convenience store that has nothing? You can usually (and I say usually...) get eggs, beef jerky, nuts. If you just view food as fuel it can get you through till you get to a town, etc. Now, I don't know... after 1000 or 2000 miles, how I would fair... but I know how yucky I feel when I eat grains and processed foods... so I'd really do just about anything to be able to stick as closely with this diet as possible.

I hope something here helps.

Prada
03-13-2013, 09:08
Can one of you cave man followers explain to me where the dairy products came from back then?

Dairy is not paleo. I'm a cave-woman and I personally don't do dairy. lol. It's not on the list of paleo approved foods and I'm also intolerant to it (discovered this after giving it up). No other animal on earth drinks it's mothers milk after infancy except for man. This is the reason it's not considered a paleo food fwiw. But some people can eat it with no noticeable issues (other than the hidden inflammation they may or may not not feel)

WingedMonkey
03-13-2013, 09:39
Dairy is not paleo. I'm a cave-woman and I personally don't do dairy. lol. It's not on the list of paleo approved foods and I'm also intolerant to it (discovered this after giving it up). No other animal on earth drinks it's mothers milk after infancy except for man. This is the reason it's not considered a paleo food fwiw. But some people can eat it with no noticeable issues (other than the hidden inflammation they may or may not not feel)

Not to pick on you, but I don't see most of what you listed as being available to our ancient forefathers. I have no problem with anyone choosing what ever diet or foods they want.

I just don't see anything Stone Age about it.

Prada
03-13-2013, 09:53
Not to pick on you, but I don't see most of what you listed as being available to our ancient forefathers. I have no problem with anyone choosing what ever diet or foods they want.

I just don't see anything Stone Age about it.

LOL. No biggie. I realize what you mean. But of course we "paleo's" wouldn't eat the meat raw right off the bones, like they probably did 1000's of years ago. But mostly, what's on my list exists in nature, pretty close to the form I eat it (except for cooking or dehydrating, but that's a necessity). Fish, beef, eggs, fruits, nuts, honey. Pretty primal stuff. As far as the AMRAP bars, here's what;s in that: raw almond butter, coconut, egg white protein, sesame seeds, almond chunks, honey, cinnamon, sea salt. So even the make-up of the bars (which wouldn't have been around for cavemen) is primal foods.

But yeah, each to his own, and I always respect that. But I can tell ya... look at my gallery for what I used to look like before... now that I'm paleo: ummmm.... big difference! LOL Plus... all my previously wacked out bloodwork is now at perfect levels :) so I guess you can say it works for me. :)

WingedMonkey
03-13-2013, 09:55
I guess you can say it works for me. :)

That's all that really matters.

:sun

Rocket Jones
03-13-2013, 10:39
Can one of you cave man followers explain to me where the dairy products came from back then?

Female dinosaurs. ;)

Seriously, the emphasis is on non-processed foods, avoidance of sugar and grains. Like anything else, there's a spectrum of belief and adherance ranging from doctrinaire to gentle suggestions. Kinda like gear weight impacting whether you're going to die out there in the middle of nowhere, or not. :D

WingedMonkey
03-13-2013, 11:20
Female dinosaurs. ;)

Seriously, the emphasis is on non-processed foods, avoidance of sugar and grains. Like anything else, there's a spectrum of belief and adherance ranging from doctrinaire to gentle suggestions. Kinda like gear weight impacting whether you're going to die out there in the middle of nowhere, or not. :D

Although you jest, I do like to remind folks that dinosaurs and humans did not occupy the earth at the same time.
:p

I guess I'm on an "American Ancestor Diet". I try and eat like my kin folk did off of what can be grown, gathered, raised or hunted. Try and avoid what is over processed or shipped around the world.

Sometimes it works, sometimes I have "needs".

:sun

Namtrag
03-18-2013, 22:06
If you think about it, in the far way back, our ancestors hiked great distances looking for food and never ate grains as they were not yet being cultivated.

bfayer
03-18-2013, 22:27
If you think about it, in the far way back, our ancestors hiked great distances looking for food and never ate grains as they were not yet being cultivated.

I am not trying to be snarky, but how did they come up with the idea to cultivate grains if they didn't eat them? Natural grain (various grass type seeds) had to be part of their diet or they would not have started collecting the seeds and planting them.

treesloth
03-18-2013, 23:50
I am not trying to be snarky, but how did they come up with the idea to cultivate grains if they didn't eat them? Natural grain (various grass type seeds) had to be part of their diet or they would not have started collecting the seeds and planting them.

The first cereal grains were not domesticated until about 10-12K years ago, Namtrag is correct.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neolithic_founder_crops

(Not speaking from a soap-box) Evolutionary-wise, we just haven't 'gotten used to them' yet. So the problems they cause as a result of insulin and cortisol spikes are believed to be vast and complex.

Feral Bill
03-19-2013, 00:50
The first cereal grains were not domesticated until about 10-12K years ago, Namtrag is correct.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neolithic_founder_crops

(Not speaking from a soap-box) Evolutionary-wise, we just haven't 'gotten used to them' yet. So the problems they cause as a result of insulin and cortisol spikes are believed to be vast and complex. Just because they were not domesticated doesn't mean they were not eaten. Reread bflayer's post.

bardo
03-19-2013, 04:01
We only started growing grains because of beer. Only later did we start eating them. (then making governments and thus civilization)

leaftye
03-19-2013, 05:00
Absolutely! But I'm guessing heart disease and obesity wasn't the culprit.

.
http://www.nature.com/news/mummies-reveal-that-clogged-arteries-plagued-the-ancient-world-1.12568


A lack of exercise and a diet high in saturated fat — both of which increase levels of 'bad' cholesterol in the blood — are thought to increase the risk of plaques building up. This has led to the suggestion that to avoid heart disease we should try to live more like our hunter–gatherer ancestors, on a diet of unprocessed foods high in protein and unsaturated fats.

To find out if that’s really true, Thomas and his colleagues performed CT scans on 137 mummies from four very different ancient populations: Egyptian, Peruvian, the Ancestral Puebloans of southwest America and the Unangans of the Aleutian Islands in Alaska. The Egyptians were artificially embalmed, whereas the other bodies were preserved naturally by very dry or very cold conditions.

leaftye
03-19-2013, 05:03
We only started growing grains because of beer. Only later did we start eating them. (then making governments and thus civilization)

Well, humans have been drinking beer for at least 7000 years. I would be surprised if humans didn't weren't eating those grains beforehand or shortly afterwards.

Rocket Jones
03-19-2013, 07:04
Distribution of grains wasn't uniform around the world. I'm re-reading Guns, Germs and Steel at the moment and there's quite a bit of discussion about this. In eastern North America it was pretty much corn to start with and that's it. In Africa they had sorghum and in the fertile crescent they had barley and 3 kinds of wheat to work with. Similar climates but different ecology and plant availability.

bfayer
03-19-2013, 08:42
Again not being snarky, just trying to work this out in my head.

Man would not cultivate anything that they did not already know they could eat. Farming is a lot of work.

Even the beer thing leads one logically to assume that man knew of and was consuming whatever grain that they eventually cultivated to make beer. How else would they have know they could make and consume beer? One can assume that they were eating some grain, and were also cooking some grain and by happenstance found out if you leave it it the pot after cooking it, it ferments. I can not think of any other way for someone to figure out that cooked grain plus yeast = beer.

The most logical assumption is that man ate whatever the other animals around them ate, which would include grass type seeds that they would eventually cultivate into modern grains.

The same is true for all other cultivated plants and animals. They learned to cultivate and domesticate food products that were the most efficient for the area they populated.

So again not trying to argue, just trying to understand, if man did not consume wild grain, why did he cultivate them?

If he did consume wild grains, why would our digestive system not have adapted like other animals, since the transition from nomadic hunter gatherer to farmer took thousands upon thousands of years?

leaftye
03-19-2013, 08:54
Even the beer thing leads one logically to assume that man knew of and was consuming whatever grain that they eventually cultivated to make beer. How else would they have know they could make and consume beer?

It's a reasonable assumption. Shortly after posting I found that we've found evidence that humans have been cultivating barley for 10,000 years. What were humans doing with barley for 3000 years before making beer?

Therunner1Guy
03-19-2013, 09:13
Just my opinion, but, I don't think that man was not eating grains, just not in the large amounts most of us eat now. I'm not a paleo eater, just seems like it's the amounts that are the real issue with your health.

Rocket Jones
03-19-2013, 09:24
Bingo. Early versions of today's grains didn't provide nearly the yield that you see now, so they were providing a small fraction of the total diet. Likewise, hunter/gatherers were eating a wide variety of wild plants, not concentrating solely on one or two types.

treesloth
03-19-2013, 09:37
Just my opinion, but, I don't think that man was not eating grains, just not in the large amounts most of us eat now. I'm not a paleo eater, just seems like it's the amounts that are the real issue with your health.

Bfayer - this reply puts a lot of it into perspective. Even if we were eating grains much longer than 10K years ago, they were still 'whole', and not as much of them were consumed in comparison to today's standards. Also, today we 'ultra-refine' carbohydrates and the human population eats lots of them.

If you are really eager to understand more, which it seems you are, I suggest you read the book I mentioned earlier in this thread. It's been very eye-opening for me.

bfayer
03-19-2013, 09:41
Just my opinion, but, I don't think that man was not eating grains, just not in the large amounts most of us eat now. I'm not a paleo eater, just seems like it's the amounts that are the real issue with your health.


That could make sense I guess, but if have heard the same thing from vegetarians. Their general view from a health point of view is man did not evolve eating meat, so we should not eat meat.

Now I am hearing that man did not evolve eating grain, so we should not eat grain.

There is no way from a logical point of view that both camps can be correct.

I guess I am trying to figure out why we have both sharp teeth for ripping and flat teeth for crushing and grinding. In order to survive as a species man would have had to eat anything and everything that they found to be edible, which would logically include gains and meat.

I have no doubt that the relative affluence of modern man leads us to eat food in greater quantities and of less variety than is optimal, which leads to less than optimal health.

I'll back out now and read up on this primal stuff. I just need to find the missing link :)

treesloth
03-19-2013, 09:46
Bingo. Early versions of today's grains didn't provide nearly the yield that you see now, so they were providing a small fraction of the total diet. Likewise, hunter/gatherers were eating a wide variety of wild plants, not concentrating solely on one or two types.

Bingo indeed. Meat products WHEN they were available, but mostly plant and vegetable matter were always consumed by us. Lots of grains in our diet are not believed to be in balance with our genetic makeup. Really sucks, because I love beer, pizza, and pasta as much as the next guy.

Now, how does this fit into backpacking? Not entirely sure. Even though a LD hiker is not suffering from weight gain due to excessive carbohydrates, the massive amounts of cortisol produced are thought to mess with our joints and cause other ailments. I've known people well within a healthy weight range that still have heart/joint/organ problems. In fact, it happens all the time, doesn't it? NOT saying this is to blame, but it can make one wonder.

Regardless of anything else, it at least bears some looking into, huh?

aficion
03-19-2013, 09:52
Regardless of anything else, it at least bears some looking into, huh?

Bears are doing some looking into long distance hiker diets up close and personal.

treesloth
03-19-2013, 09:53
That could make sense I guess, but if have heard the same thing from vegetarians. Their general view from a health point of view is man did not evolve eating meat, so we should not eat meat.

Now I am hearing that man did not evolve eating grain, so we should not eat grain.

There is no way from a logical point of view that both camps can be correct.

I guess I am trying to figure out why we have both sharp teeth for ripping and flat teeth for crushing and grinding. In order to survive as a species man would have had to eat anything and everything that they found to be edible, which would logically include gains and meat.

I have no doubt that the relative affluence of modern man leads us to eat food in greater quantities and of less variety than is optimal, which leads to less than optimal health.

I'll back out now and read up on this primal stuff. I just need to find the missing link :)

Bfayer - since reading this book, you've pretty much hit the crux of it for me. To be healthy, you either have to cut down your carbs to almost nil, or cut all factory-farmed animal proteins out of your diet. But I've seen a lot of overweight or generally unhealthy vegetarians. I'm sure you have too. I think in the end, as in most cases, it comes down to common sense and sensible decisions.

Hot Flash
03-19-2013, 12:48
If you understand simple science, then you should also understand why the claims of the paleo fad diet fanatics are incorrect.

wannahike
03-19-2013, 13:36
If you do a search there are several other threads about this and some links back to other forums like MDA that discuss a primal thru hike.

Feral Bill
03-19-2013, 13:41
If you understand simple science, then you should also understand why the claims of the paleo fad diet fanatics are incorrect.
Any and every diet has its followers and one or more books with a "scientific" explanation of its merits. They can not all be right. I suggest that the science of nutrition is anything but simple, based on the ever changing state of mainstream beliefs.
EYOF

treesloth
03-19-2013, 14:18
Any and every diet has its followers and one or more books with a "scientific" explanation of its merits. They can not all be right. I suggest that the science of nutrition is anything but simple, based on the ever changing state of mainstream beliefs.
EYOF

Hotflash's baseless statement was not even worth my time to reply, but to some extent I can agree with what you said to her.

JAK
03-19-2013, 14:21
Just about every diet has overblown claims. Both meat and grain, and most other foods, ain't what they used to be. I try and follow the spirit of primaeval diets, and try to imagine what sort of foods my ancestors ate wherever they were all those years ago, and then try and eat whatever is real and available wherever I happen to be. So it varies. I try and pick out the maggots and weavles, unless I am real hungry. ;-)

l84toff
03-19-2013, 15:26
If you understand simple science, then you should also understand why the claims of the paleo fad diet fanatics are incorrect.

If I listened to simple science, I would still be eating pizza, pasta and wheat, be 50lbs heavier, feeling like crap every day and have debilitating inflammation problems. I would normally say that it comes down to faith. You believe A and I believe B, neither wrong, but in this case my own simple scientific experience says otherwise.

I had a friend say that it must have been coincidence that all these problems went away, that maybe is was something else, that it's not the wheat/gluten. Problem is that after quitting all that stuff, I went back to it because I was feeling so good, figured it wouldn't bother me. After a couple of days of eating like I used to, all my inflammation problems returned with a vengeance. What took only a couple of day to bring on, took over 2 weeks to get rid of. I repeated this lesson on a smaller scale a couple more times, each time with the same results. I suppose you could argue that I have a gluten allergy, I would agree. I think it's been brought on by years of eating the stuff on a daily basis.

I'm not trying to convert you or anyone else for that matter, in fact I would agree with you that most diets are fads that are being capitalized on by the diet industry. I personally don't know anyone that goes to weight watchers, or has done a Bernstein diet or any diet at all for that matter that has been successful (and I do know quite a few folks who have tried). What we've done is simply make a life style change. I've incorporated most of the Primal way of eating into my life and have seen all that I need to see to make it a permanent part of how I live. This is not a diet. Interestingly enough everyone that I personally know that has gone Primal or Paleo has had similar if not better results to mine. Every single person has dropped weight, every single one feels much better, has more energy with no inflammation problems, not to mention getting off drugs they used to take for various ailments.

How many people do you personally know that have gone Primal/Paleo that ended up with worse symptoms, worse problems, weight gain and end up taking more drugs? Most North Americans are obese/over weight, have a massive prescription drug dependency (in some cases this is sadly what is keeping them alive), have a plethora of ailments (from pre-diabetic, diabetic, cancer rates are the highest they have been and getting worse, heart disease, the list is long). If this is normal, I will gladly be a fanatic.

To be perfectly honest, I was just looking for info on how to thru-hike the AT eating the way we eat. If you have any advice with respect to that, you have my attention.

As always, HYOH.

l84toff
03-19-2013, 15:55
As far as planning, my main concern is with dehydrating/making too much of our own food. I mean on paper it looks good to just prepare the majority of what we will eat. Everything I read however is that most (if not all) abandon their pre-planned meals not too long after starting. Is this solely due to appetite change? If so, is it possible to make a diverse enough menu for the trail that you avoid this? Or is this because normal (what most consider normal) food is fairly readily available by way of town stops along the way?

I think it's easy for me to hike for a week or even 2 on food drops eating what I have planned out, so doing test hikes will not help in determining how well this will succeed over several months.

The scenario that makes sense to us at the moment is making a percentage of our own food (say 60-70%) and supplementing that with food along the way. Staying primal would almost limit us to Supermarkets or local farms that sell meat/eggs/fresh produce (and I'm not even sure there are any along the way). This would be much easier in the winter as you could pick up enough food in town for a few days without worrying that it will spoil. Hiking in May-Oct pretty much means that we might be able to get away with picking up some chicken or steak in town but it would have to be consumed that day. Some ziplock bags for transport and tinfoil for cooking over the fire would suffice.

I just picked up a digital version of Awol's guide and over the next few weeks I'll try to map out Primal type re-suppy points.

treesloth
03-19-2013, 16:01
L84toff, I'm very glad to hear how well this works for you. While you may not have gained a ton of insight on Primal nutrition while on the trail, you have definitely opened up a few peoples eyes to the lifestyle change of this relatively new way of eating. So, not a total loss.

And you thought it would be all crickets. :-)

WingedMonkey
03-19-2013, 16:10
And you thought it would be all crickets. :-)

I just dehydrated some crickets and some meal-worms. I can't wait to pass them out for trail magic.

:sun

nastynate
03-19-2013, 16:18
I'm on my first month of trying the primal blueprint, although I can't come close to affording all the organic/grassfed meats. I'm feeling great so far. I am not doing it for weight loss, as I am in the healthy BMI already. Just trying to eat better and stay out of the sugar mostly! I'm not a thru hiker, so I have zero input on maintaining a low carb diet for months on end while on the trail. I'm doing my first weekend trip in 3 days though, and here is my meal plan: Breakfast 2 Larabars with some almond butter scooped on top. Lunch will be GORP made from jerky, almonds, walnuts, pecans, raisins, dried fruit, dark chocolate chunks. Some more almond butter if I'm still hungry. Dinner will be summer sausage and sharp cheddar cheese and a pouch of instant potatoes (not paleo, but I don't have a gluten problem and they are easy). I'm also working towards going stoveless which adds another layer of issues. I'll probably throw in a pack of tuna and and few extra Larabars and I'll have a small tub of almond butter in case I'm still starving. I plan on getting a dehydrator soon, so I'll start making my own bars and trail mix, and jerky.

Rocket Jones
03-19-2013, 18:20
You can use your oven to do some dehydrating. Try steaming or roasting some sweet potatoes or butternut squash, then mashing it with a little chicken stock to thin. Spread out on a piece of parchment paper on a cookie sheet in the oven until it dries, then break it into 'bark'. Reconstitutes with a little water and tastes great. Some ghee and cinnamon on the sweet potatoes, or a drizzle of real maple syrup on the squash, and you'll forget instant mashed.

That said, I eat instant mashed at times too because it's just easier. LOL

Jack Tarlin
03-19-2013, 20:41
I have met several people over the years who attempted something like this while thru-hiking. Most of them did it long before such ventures were considered "paleo" or "primal". Some did it while trying to "live off the land" or perhaps they'd seen Jeremiah Johnson too often. Can this be done? Sure. I suppose it can. In my observation, however, most folks attempting long-distance backpacking trips of this sort quit within a week, for all sorts of reasons.

Feral Bill
03-19-2013, 23:46
You can use your oven to do some dehydrating. Try steaming or roasting some sweet potatoes or butternut squash, then mashing it with a little chicken stock to thin. Spread out on a piece of parchment paper on a cookie sheet in the oven until it dries, then break it into 'bark'. Reconstitutes with a little water and tastes great. Some ghee and cinnamon on the sweet potatoes, or a drizzle of real maple syrup on the squash, and you'll forget instant mashed.

That said, I eat instant mashed at times too because it's just easier. LOL Also think nutmeg

JAK
03-20-2013, 07:50
It's not that hard to follow a primaeval themed diet on the trail or at home, as long as you aren't too fussy about it. Just extend your hunting and gathering and scavenging into grocery stores and bulk food stores and the occasional restaurant. Look for real food. It's pretty scarce, but with skill and determination you will learn what to look for and where to look. It's all about developing and maintaining the right mentality.

Nytro
06-01-2013, 11:15
Tons of jerky, Nuts, and dehydrated bacon....yum!!!

Pedaling Fool
06-05-2013, 13:02
Paleo-diets are romantic wishful thinking. Here's a pretty good article on it, but it's long, so I'll only copy excerpts: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=why-paleo-diet-half-baked-how-hunter-gatherer-really-eat


"Several examples of recent and relatively speedy human evolution (http://www.whiteblaze.net/topic.cfm?id=human-evolution) underscore that our anatomy and genetics have not been set in stone since the stone age. Within a span of 7,000 years, for instance, people adapted to eating dairy by developing lactose tolerance. Usually, the gene encoding an enzyme named lactase—which breaks down lactose sugars in milk—shuts down after infancy; when dairy became prevalent, many people evolved a mutation (http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v13/n3/full/5201297a.html) that kept the gene turned on throughout life. Likewise, the genetic mutation responsible for blue eyes (http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs00439-007-0460-x) likely arose between 6,000 and 10,000 years ago."




.................................................. .............................


"A common assumption is that atherosclerosis is predominately lifestyle-related, and that if modern human beings could emulate preindustrial or even preagricultural lifestyles, that atherosclerosis, or least its clinical manifestations, would be avoided," the researchers wrote. But they found evidence of probable or definite atherosclerosis in 47 of 137 mummies from each of the different geographical regions. And even if heart disease, cancer, obesity and diabetes were not as common among our predecessors, they still faced numerous threats to their health that modern sanitation and medicine have rendered negligible for people in industrialized nations, such as infestations of parasites and certain lethal bacterial and viral infections."





.......................................



"Exactly what proportions of meat and vegetables (http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/2012/08/08/early-meat-eating-human-ancestors-thrived-while-vegetarian-hominin-died-out/) did different hominid species eat in the Paleolithic? It's not clear (http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/2012/07/23/human-ancestors-were-nearly-all-vegetarians]). Just how far back were our ancestors eating grains (http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2010/12/17/1016868108) and dairy? Perhaps far earlier (http://www.nature.com/news/art-of-cheese-making-is-7-500-years-old-1.12020) than we initially thought. What we can say for certain is that in the Paleolithic, the human diet varied immensely by geography, season and opportunity. "We now know that humans have evolved not to subsist on a single, Paleolithic diet but to be flexible eaters, an insight that has important implications for the current debate over what people today should eat in order to be healthy," anthropologist William Leonard (http://www.anthropology.northwestern.edu/faculty/leonard.html) of Northwestern University wrote in Scientific American in 2002 (http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=food-for-thought)."




.........................................


"If we compare the diets of so-called modern hunter-gatherers, however, we see just how difficult it is to find meaningful commonalities and extract useful dietary guidelines from their disparate lives (see infographic). Which hunter–gatherer tribe are we supposed to mimic, exactly? How do we reconcile the Inuit diet—mostly the flesh of sea mammals—with the more varied plant and land animal diet of the Hadza or !Kung? Chucking the many different hunter–gather diets into a blender to come up with some kind of quintessential smoothie is a little ridiculous. "Too often modern health problems are portrayed as the result of eating 'bad' foods that are departures from the natural human diet…This is a fundamentally flawed approach to assessing human nutritional needs," Leonard wrote. "Our species was not designed to subsist on a single, optimal diet. What is remarkable about human beings is the extraordinary variety of what we eat. We have been able to thrive in almost every ecosystem on the Earth, consuming diets ranging from almost all animal foods among populations of the Arctic to primarily tubers and cereal grains among populations in the high Andes.
Closely examining one group of modern hunter–gatherers—the Hiwi—reveals how much variation exists within the diet of a single small foraging society and deflates the notion that hunter–gatherers have impeccable health. Such examination also makes obvious the immense gap between a genuine community of foragers and Paleo dieters living in modern cities, selectively shopping at farmers' markets and making sure the dressing on their house salad is gluten, sugar and dairy free.”



...........................................


"
The Hiwi are not particularly healthy. Compared to the Ache, a hunter–gatherer tribe in Paraguay, the Hiwi are shorter, thinner, more lethargic and less well nourished. Hiwi men and women of all ages constantly complain of hunger. Many Hiwi are heavily infected with parasitic hookworms, which burrow into the small intestine and feed on blood. And only 50 percent of Hiwi children survive beyond the age of 15."

Armywife
07-12-2013, 18:01
I caution everyone that wants to read about the 'new' Paleo fad, to realize what you are reading. The Paleo fad, is just that; a fad diet to sell lots of books to lots of fat people who think they can get skinny without getting off the couch!

Eating Paleo, is completely different! You eat meat, meat protein, fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, legumes, some dairy, potatoes, and for god sake you eat salt too! The fad diet says no legumes, dairy, or salt; that the Paleolithic people didn't eat any of this, and that's pure hogwash. Our early ancestors ate what ever they could get their paws on! They created the process of fermentation, thus they drank wine and the precursor to beer. They also consumed some amounts of dairy, as they did not waste anything thus they ate the udder of female animals and the milk within them, probably creating the first forms of cheese as well! Without salt they wouldn't have been able to dry meat for winters; salt was perhaps the first form of currency in the world. They also ate legumes, fresh, fermented, and dried. They ate potatoes, or what could be considered a potato, or anything else that they could eat that didn't kill them. What they didn't eat was grain. Nothing like rice, wheat, or barely. They didn't eat it because they didn't know what to do with it. The first grain crops were corn, and if we tried to eat the corn they ate, and some have tried, you would starve to death without knowing how to prepare it since our bodies cannot digest corn.

I eat a paleo diet, not because I read a book one day, but because I have spent years studying food and until man started eating grain there was very little heart disease, obesity, or inflammatory illnesses. Let's not forget there was no diabetes either. Grain is sugar, pure sugar and our bodies have not been designed to digest that much sugar.

Oh and it's a misnomer that early man died young. While a good portion of them did, in fact, die young, it was because of injury and illness, what we think of today as a pesky virus was almost completely fatal 10K+ years ago. If a person could avoid serious injury, and viruses they could live well into their fifties or sixties, though it was rare since 90% of the world was meaner and hungrier than humans at the time.

basically eat nothing processed, and you are eating a pretty good paleo diet. :)

bfayer
07-12-2013, 18:23
..I eat a paleo diet, not because I read a book one day, but because I have spent years studying food and until man started eating grain there was very little heart disease, obesity, or inflammatory illnesses. Let's not forget there was no diabetes either. Grain is sugar, pure sugar and our bodies have not been designed to digest that much sugar...


Humans started eating grain a long time before they had a written language, so no one knows if they had heart problems, diabetes or inflammatory illnesses.

In the study of the few sets of bones they do have from early man, there is not enough data to show what medical conditions they did not have, they can only tell what some of the conditions they did have. Lack of data does not equal fact.

Even if everything you say is true about the medical conditions, it is much more plausible that it was not the make up of the diet but the fact that they were active and did not overeat, but again not enough data to know one way or the other. On the other hand it could have been the raw brains and intestines of dead animals that kept them healthy. Maybe I can start a new fad diet... :)

Captn
07-13-2013, 15:19
I think that people miss the reality of the diet of our ancestors. They ate whatever they could get their hands on .... Insects, meat, vegetables, pine bark, etc .... Whatever they could catch or find that was even remotely edible. It would probably give tremendous health benefits if everyone walked to stores to get their food rather than drive ...

gsingjane
07-13-2013, 18:46
Marlene Zuk, an anthropologist with no apparent ax to grind, wrote an interesting book entitled Paleofantasy which has gotten a fair amount of media attention. In it, she discusses the science (and lack thereof) behind various "paleo-inspired" beliefs and practices. I think if it were me considering making such a huge dietary and lifestyle change, I'd want to make sure there was solid science and evidence to support it. Just as one small example, she notes that one reason some people concluded that ancient humans did not consume grain products was due to finding only bones at known settlements. However, Zuk points out that no evidence of plant-based food would have survived the millennia, and furthermore that analysis of the digestive tract of an early human, Otzi the Ice Man, did show evidence of grain consumption.

It seems like an awfully complicated subject and worthy of a great deal more study and skepticism toward "quick and easy" conclusions about what we, in 2013, should be doing.

Finally, simply as a matter of trail logistics, if people can do vegan and vegetarian and lactose-free and kosher and halal on the AT, I suppose, given enough time, attention and especially money, "paleo" eating could be achieved as well.

fizz3499
07-14-2013, 11:32
My doctor along with many other doctors are tell their patients to switch over to a paleo diet. Here are a few links that might help you out. Just be careful with the Momwithaprep site. Some of her recipes are not paleo but she has a lot of great info. http://paleohacks.com/questions/5802/eating-paleo-while-backpacking#axzz2Z28KSZwI
http://momwithaprep.wordpress.com/2013/06/21/101-dehydrating-recipes/
http://www.paleoplan.com/2011/03-23/backpacking-paleo/

Dutch1976
08-06-2013, 05:44
Eat less sugar.

Dutch1976
08-06-2013, 05:44
Drink much, much less sugar.

Hill Ape
08-06-2013, 07:38
i drink preservative free, unfiltered beer. it spoils quick so i have to drink in a hurry. does that count?

Pedaling Fool
11-07-2013, 11:58
Better add human flesh to the paleo menu :p


http://www.indianexpress.com/news/early-man-ate-children-as-part-of-everyday-diet-study/676823/


Excerpt:

"Early cavemen in Europe were eating human meat, especially of children, as part of their everyday diet some 800,000 years ago, a new study of fossil bones in Spain has suggested.

Among the bones of bison, deer, wild sheep and other animals, scientists have discovered the butchered remains of at least 11 children and adolescents from a cave called Gran Dolina.

The bones, according to the researchers, show signs of cuts and other marks which will have been made by early stone tools, the Daily Mail reported.
It appears that those were being smashed to extract nutritious marrow inside and there was evidence that the victims' brains may also have been eaten, they said."

bfayer
11-07-2013, 12:06
Cool. Evidence of the first known zombie apocalypse :)


Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

aficion
11-07-2013, 13:29
Pretty sure that up until about a half a century ago, none of the previous countless generations of our ancestors, consumed a diet which included primarily genetically modified wheat and soy, grain fed meat and fowl, farm raised fish, and highly processed shelf stable food including lots of sugar, trans fats, and high fructose corn syrup. Also pretty sure they moved around somewhat more than we tend to today.

Love that switching to grassfed beef and lamb, free range chicken and their eggs, pastured pork, and wild caught seafood, along with plenty of fresh whole unprocessed fruits, vegetables, and nuts has worked so well for the OP and countless others including myself. I also eat cheese and drink some beer, wine, and whiskey. Do legumes too.

Instead of spouting off about simple science, if you'd like to feel and look better, try it for thirty days. Get regular and varied intensity of exercise....like primitive people had to, eat a reasonable and varying, amount and type, of whole fresh foods......like most primitive people did, and just see what happens. Dollars to doughnuts your metrics including blood pressure, cholesterol, blood sugar, weight, bmi, etc. will improve significantly. What is more, I expect you will have more energy, a clearer mind, fewer gastric issues, better hair and skin, and a big smile on your face. You can thank L84toff later.:)

JAK
11-07-2013, 21:37
If it's no oats, it's crap!

Namtrag
11-07-2013, 21:40
Not sure I get all the negativity about the Paleo diet. It is not low carb, and it emphasizes whole foods. It's not a weird fad diet that emphasizes some off the wall habits.

ams212001
11-08-2013, 01:59
Not sure I get all the negativity about the Paleo diet. It is not low carb, and it emphasizes whole foods. It's not a weird fad diet that emphasizes some off the wall habits.

I agree. I would be concerned if it was advocating calorie restriction and low fat foods. But it is not. I don't see it as the end all be all diet but it is a good guideline to keep health in check. Seems like common sense to me when you actually start to research nutrition. Eat, Drink, Sleep, and Exercise. Seems like a good way to live.

Pedaling Fool
11-08-2013, 08:52
Actually a lot of people need some serious calorie restriction. We humans actually have a body that can be very efficient at use of calories, but we don't allow the body to see its full potential because we're always stuffing it with food.

aficion
11-08-2013, 09:06
If it's no oats, it's crap!

As one with a live-in father who has Alzheimer's, I have become interested in learning of lifestyle choices which appear to alter one's odds of getting the disease. A relatively new book, "Grain Brain" explores links between grain/high carb diets and dementia. It is very interesting. Maybe you should read it before you forget how.

Namtrag
11-08-2013, 09:55
All I know is when I gave up eating grains (I use the 80/20 rule, so I am not a nazi about it), within a day I stopped having acid reflux. That in itself is enough for me. I have also found that other things that cause me heartburn, like peanut butter, are also not allowed on the paleo diet, which limits or excludes legumes, of which peanuts are a type.

I never knew peanuts were not nuts until now.

ams212001
11-09-2013, 01:58
Actually a lot of people need some serious calorie restriction. We humans actually have a body that can be very efficient at use of calories, but we don't allow the body to see its full potential because we're always stuffing it with food.

I agree. I was just referring to how some fad diets advocate arbitrary restrictions. Plus, most people are way above the normal daily limit with calories but not nutrients. I know when talking to a trainer that going into a daily "calorie deficit" would help with toning and maintaining weight/weight loss.

RCBear
11-09-2013, 10:35
Lots of interesting info and perspectives here. enough to peak my interest in exploring it further. that said, i'm guessing this should have been started in the straightforward section since most don't really answer what the OP was looking for, which was logistics perspectives from those that practice it and have tried to apply it to long distance hiking. And it's always amusing to hear from the most passive aggressive person i have come across on WB; who likes to poke her head in, inflame, then usually doesn't stick around. that lady cracks me up.