View Full Version : permethryn
I just picked up some permethryn spray (5%, Walmart) to help keep the deer ticks away. I intend to use this in adition to deet. As I understand it permethryn is sprayed on cloths, not skin and lasts a could weeks. I also understand that it is an insecticide rather than a repelant.
Any thoughts about this stuff? I am less interested in possible health issues (the ticks scare me more than anything I am likely tolearn on that count) than how well the stuff works, and how long it lasts. I'd be using it in a day and weekend hiking conditions.
Rick B
newhampshire camper
06-21-2005, 06:46
whatever it takes to avoid Lyme disease works for me!! :dance :banana
justusryans
06-21-2005, 06:55
permethryn scares me more than the ticks! i have never used this product but i do know it is a very effective insecticide,very dangerous too. i know a lot of the farms in the area use it.
dougmeredith
06-21-2005, 08:03
permethryn scares me more than the ticks! i have never used this product but i do know it is a very effective insecticide,very dangerous too.
I am seriously considering permetherin, so I read all posts I see about it. Do you have a source for the claim that it is dangerous?
Doug
I've used Permethrin for years. No problems. The military issues it for spraying on mosquito netting and clothing, so I used it in Iraq, Egypt, Thailand with no problems. It keeps the critters away.
I use it on the trail now, too. Take the clothes you're going to wear outside and lay them on the lawn. Spray them with an even coat of Permethrin and let them dry. Now wear them.
It is also good to spray on the outside of your tent and other gear. Just dont inhale it or spray it on your skin. After you spray your stuff make sure to wash your hands well.
Oh, I noticed in when I was in the Air Force that if you spray Permethrin on a subdued Rank insignia that it will take the enamel paint off of it in less than a minute.
justusryans
06-21-2005, 09:39
doug, no i havn't looked up any source material for it. i live in a farming community however and some local farmers use it on their fields. when they do they take severe precautions to protect themselves. hazmat suits and respiraters. they may be using a more concetrated form or just taking reasonable precautions. anything the farmers respect as much permethrin would make me cautious.
justusryans
06-21-2005, 09:44
doug found this on a quick search. www.safe2use.com/poison-pesticides/permethrin/cox-report/cox.htm (http://www.safe2use.com/poison-pesticides/permethrin/cox-report/cox.htm)
justusryans
06-21-2005, 09:51
doug, disregard link it is afflicted! :datz
icemanat95
06-21-2005, 10:54
Permethrin is not intended for direct use on skin. Clearly respiratory and mucous membrane contact would be a bad thing. So when farmers are spraying it on their crops, it is aerosolized over the crops. So they wear protective gear to keep from absorbing it. Once it dries it is safe to handle the treated materials.
My field work clothes are treated with permethrin, so are my hunting clothes. It is relatively easy to go into the woods for a day of bushwhacking and come out with 300 ticks on you...yeah, I said 300. Permethrin reduces that quite a bit. So does Deet. Use it according to the instructions and you'll be fine.
For mosquitoes I've been using Cutter Advantage, a DEET free repellent. It seems to work pretty well and doesn't smell.
I treated my clothing with it for my section hike in 2004. Didn't see a single tick on me. The trail runner said it was a really bad year for ticks. Lasts 2 weeks, supposedly. I walk in the woods in my business and am getting ready to spray my work clothes as it gets old to pick a couple dozen ticks off during the day. UGH!
That Cutter Advanced repellent with picaridin looks very promising thanks for the tip.
Happypappy
06-21-2005, 12:10
I now use the product on my socks and trouser legs. As already posted, take your clothing outdoors to spray them, be careful to not spray yourself, and wash any residue off your skin. I contracted lyme a few years ago, and now suffer some pretty tough arthritis problems ( spine is loaded with it ) and some chronic fatigue symptoms. I was on an anti-biotic treatment, but I most assuredly do not want the risk of getting another dose. If I can or not, I don't know, but why take chances. Anything that helps to prevent this ailment is worth it in my book.
The Cheat
06-21-2005, 14:15
According to everything I've read lately, the best strategy is Permethrin on all your clothes and DEET on exposed skin. The main reason to avoid Permethrin on your skin is apparently not because of its toxicity. Rather, it is because it gets broken down when on skin after only about 5 minutes. On clothes it lasts longer than 2 weeks and it can last up to 6 months in higher concentrations. YMMV!
I'm trying to avoid DEET now, so I just bought some Repel which uses Oil of Lemon Eucalyptus. I'll be using it this weekend along with Permethrin on my clothes. We're having alot of mosquitos and ticks here this year, so I'll let everybody know how that works after I get back.
I can say that this week I sprayed my baseball cap with Permethrin and the mosquitos seem to be bothering me alot less while I'm working in the yard. It could just be my imagination of course.
My kids are going to camp this summer at the Institute of Ecosystem Studies in Millbrook, NY. I will be spraying all their clothes with Permethrin and putting either DEET or the lemon eucalyptus on their skin. Here in Dutchess County we have the highest rate of Lyme Disease in NY, and the second highest in the country. I'm not sure what county is first, but I've had Lyme disease a couple of times, and my daughter had it when she was five, and it isn't fun.
The Cheat
06-21-2005, 14:19
Not sure where I found this, I think it may have been a military site, but I sent this to a friend of mine last week:
When maximum protection against insect bites is needed or desired, the ideal solution is to use a combination of DEET on exposed skin, and wear permethrin-treated clothing. An extended-duration DEET insect repellent (Ultrathon®) and permethrin-treated clothing is the standard personal protection system used by the U.S. military deployed in areas of the world where insect-borne disease is a real threat. One field study showed that the use of both of these products provided 99.9% protection against mosquito bites, in an environment where unprotected persons received an average of 1,188 bites per hour!
The Cheat
06-21-2005, 14:21
last post, why can't I edit my posts?
Here's where the above quote is from:
http://www.travmed.com/trip_prep/insect_permethrin.htm
Footslogger
06-21-2005, 14:49
[QUOTE=The Cheat]last post, why can't I edit my posts?
=================================
Send a note to ATTroll here at Whiteblaze and he'll reset your preferences so that you can edit all your posts. Had the same problem a while back.
'Slogger
Any concern of it getting on your skin, once your sweat permeates the clothing or pack you may have sprayed it on?
TakeABreak
06-21-2005, 23:53
I use skin so soft by avon, it works wonders in keeping ticks away, not so good on blackflies or skeeter's though.
The Cheat
06-22-2005, 08:20
Any concern of it getting on your skin, once your sweat permeates the clothing or pack you may have sprayed it on?
I'm not sure, since I've read alot of conflicting information on websites. But, Permethrin is used in the shampoo that kids use to get rid of head lice, so I imagine it's pretty safe.
YEAH THE STUFF WORKS FINE. BEEN USING IT FOR ABOUT 15 YEARS NOW. ALWAYS SPRAY MY PACK, CLOTHES,AND BOOTS WHEN I GO HIKIN. AND IF YA SPRAY YOUR TIE STRINGS ON YOUR FOOD BAG BEFORE YOU HANG IT ON THOSE SHELTER STICKS ON A ROPE, THEN THE MICES LEAVE YOUR GOODIES ALONE TOO. SO ITS AN ALL AROUND GOOD THING TO USE FOR CRITTER DEFENSE. HAPPY HIKIN!!!!
I just picked up some permethryn spray (5%, Walmart) to help keep the deer ticks away. I intend to use this in adition to deet. As I understand it permethryn is sprayed on cloths, not skin and lasts a could weeks. I also understand that it is an insecticide rather than a repelant.
Any thoughts about this stuff? I am less interested in possible health issues (the ticks scare me more than anything I am likely tolearn on that count) than how well the stuff works, and how long it lasts. I'd be using it in a day and weekend hiking conditions.
Rick B
The Solemates
06-23-2005, 17:34
we spray down our yard with it to keep the fleas off the dogs.
The Cheat
06-27-2005, 08:08
So, my 9 year old son and I were camping June 10th-12th in an area extraordinarily high in ticks and mosquitos. I put permethrin on our shoes and on my pant legs (he wears shorts mostly). We put DEET on our skin.
Results: I had no ticks or mosquito bites. He got 4 ticks and no mosquito bites until I washed him up, at which point he was attacked like crazy until I got more DEET on him. In less than 10 minutes he must have gotten about 50 bites.
Then, we went camping 24th-26th in a different area. It is also extraordinarily high in ticks but not as many mosquitoes, although there were still quite alot of them. I put permethrin on all our clothes, including our shoes and hats. We put on our skin a Repel brand insect spray which uses Oil of Lemon Eucalyptus instead of DEET. I think it smells better than DEET, but it still stinks.
Results: 0 ticks, he got 1 mosquito bite. Again, this mosquito bite came after he was swimming so he probably had washed off most of the repellent.
Nightwalker
06-27-2005, 14:24
That Cutter Advanced repellent with picaridin looks very promising thanks for the tip.
It doesn't taste nasty either. I've used it this year. It requires re-applying more often, however.
orangebug
06-27-2005, 17:26
DEET and Permethryn are both very safe and well documented agents. Permethryn degrades on contact with skin enzymes, not with sweat. It makes sense to avoid inhalation of these agents as they could have effects on some neuromuscular junctions, bypassed from skin as a protective shield.
Picaridin is a newer agent only recently demonstrated to have similar efficacy to DEET and Permethryn.
Avoid spreading panic unless you have some real data to suggest dangerousness of these agents.
justusryans
06-27-2005, 19:35
Hey Orangebud, I don't think any of my comments "spread panic". A question was asked, and I answered it with personal knowledge. I will stand by my posts. They were factual and based on personal observation.Personally, I think a Psychriast accusing anyone of using " scare tactics" is just about the funniest thing I have ever heard! You are the wrong person to answer any post of mine. I am a bipolar 1 and have no respect for psychriasts
eggjelly
06-27-2005, 21:31
Does permetherin have any negative affect on waterproofing or wicking fabrics like Capilene?
orangebug
06-28-2005, 01:08
Don't know why it would. It is used in BugStopper's clothing and seems to work on shirts and pants pretty well.
It is pretty common to panic over Lyme disease. It may be very easy to avoid by doing a few bits of hygiene, even if one is convinced of the evil nature of DEET, permethryn or psychiatrists. It appears that deer ticks need 48 hours of attachment to get enough spirochetes into a host human. A sponge bath every other day (bandana) possibly would prevent such attachment. The use of certain antibiotics may also have preventative benefits.
Talk it over with a real world doctor current with infectious diseases.