View Full Version : Reciprocal Gun Carry Laws on the AT and other trails
A question was asked in the straight forward forum a few days ago of opinions about carrying gun on the AT. I posted a useful link where one could determine which states you're allowed to carry in depending on where you had a permit, determined by the reciprocity laws, that was deemed off topic, so I'll post here.
Concealed Carry Permit Reciprocity Maps (http://www.usacarry.com/concealed_carry_permit_reciprocity_maps.html)
rocketsocks
03-15-2013, 16:59
I saw that map and felt it very helpful..thanks Sly.
And it seemed that if you have a permit in Kentucky, Tenn, Texas, and a few others, Reciprocity is wide spread, though none allow for carry up in the N. East, in there lies the problem with regard to carry along the trails length.
I saw that map and felt it very helpful..thanks Sly.
And it seemed that if you have a permit in Kentucky, Tenn, Texas, and a few others, Reciprocity is wide spread, though none allow for carry up in the N. East, in there lies the problem with regard to carry along the trails length.
I think for the most part any permit holder can carry in Vermont which has about the most "liberal" gun laws in the US. Pennsylvania also seems to allow most to carry. Massachusetts has some strict gun laws by will allow for non-residents to apply, as well as CT, MD, NY, NJ.
rocketsocks
03-15-2013, 17:25
NJ is tough, it is usually left up to the Chiefs in the individual townships, unless you have a purpose for carry;ie job, retired LEO.....ect.
For Massachusetts you must apply every year and in person for non-resident permit.
NJ is tough, it is usually left up to the Chiefs in the individual townships, unless you have a purpose for carry;ie job, retired LEO.....ect.
Yeah, assuming you can pass a federal background check, I think it's up to most local police chiefs to issue concealed carry permits.
For Massachusetts you must apply every year and in person for non-resident permit.
I wonder what the legalities of bouncing one up the trail through states that do not have reciprocity laws? For example, you can't have one in NJ-MA and don't want to leave it at a PO in a box over 30 days so you mail it to a PO in CT and forward it from there to VT where it would be legal again? :D
rocketsocks
03-15-2013, 18:05
I wonder what the legalities of bouncing one up the trail through states that do not have reciprocity laws? For example, you can't have one in NJ-MA and don't want to leave it at a PO in a box over 30 days so you mail it to a PO in CT and forward it from there to VT where it would be legal again? :DThat's interesting, and may be viable, many mail firearms to be repaired, and for other reasons.
Indiana Camper
03-15-2013, 18:13
I believe a firearm must be mailed through an FFL/Dealer. It is against the law to just mail something yourself. I could be wrong but 99% sure. I don't know what kind of trouble one would be in if caught.
It is against the law to just mail something yourself.
Something being a gun or ammo? Otherwise, just about every hiker out there would be breaking federal law.
Q: May a nonlicensee* ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?
Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#shipping-firearms-usps
*I'm assuming a nonlicensee means not a gun dealer.
The answer doesn't cover shipping to oneself to general delivery (which may have been overlooked and legal) but it looks like you could send it to a business or hostel.
Interesting stuff.
How do the restrictions on non-firearms vary from state to state? Knives, Hatchets, Pointed Sticks. I'm guessing some of the laws are deliberately vague, but if a foreigner, non-terrorist, wanted to arm himself, how could he legally go about it. Hiking Staff and Hatchet? Easier to get away with on a trail I would presume.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MntgMIJbvA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_R6glvPblvw
Sarcasm the elf
03-15-2013, 20:38
I've been looking into a Florida carry permit in order to legally carry when visiting my friend in Georgia (although he will be providing the firearms, I have no interest in transporting a pistol 1000 miles)
Florida permits are available to non residents and reciprocal in a great number of states, but be warned to read all the foot notes, some states only offer recipricity to florida permit holders who are residents.
http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/news/concealed_carry.html
Sorry for the giant quote, but I think it's relevant.
Concealed Carry Reciprocity
Downloadable version of the list of Reciprocity States (http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/FORMS/ReciprocityList.pdf) for your reference.
http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/images/get_adobe_reader.gif (http://get.adobe.com/reader/)Use the free Adobe PDF Reader (http://get.adobe.com/reader/) software to view or print PDF forms.
PLEASE NOTE: The reciprocity information on this page is ALWAYS CURRENT. The Division of Licensing constantly monitors changing gun laws in other states and attempts to negotiate agreements as the laws in those states allow.
Recent Modifications to the Reciprocity List:
February 4, 2013: Effective this date, PENNSYLVANIA will no longer honor a Florida concealed weapon license if the license holder is not a RESIDENT of the state of Florida.
It is important for license holders to understand that when they are traveling in or through another state they are subject to the firearm laws of that state. We have provided links to the state laws or to the licensing authorities' Web page of each of our reciprocity states so that licensees can do the necessary planning and research when preparing to travel.
FLORIDA'S RECIPROCITY STATES
Alabama (http://www.ago.state.al.us/FAQs.aspx#Guns) (1,3,5)
Alaska (http://www.dps.state.ak.us/Statewide/PermitsLicensing/concealedhandguns.aspx) (1)
Arizona (http://www.azdps.gov/Services/Concealed_Weapons/) (6)
Arkansas (http://www.asp.state.ar.us/divisions/rs/rs_chl_law.html#rec) (1)
Colorado (http://www.colorado.gov/cs/Satellite/CDPS-CBIMain/CBON/1251621089773) (1,4)
Delaware (http://attorneygeneral.delaware.gov/crime/concealedweapons.shtml)
Georgia (http://dps.georgia.gov/georgias-firearm-permit-reciprocity) (1)
Idaho (http://www.isp.idaho.gov/patrol/faqs.html) (3,6)
Indiana (http://www.in.gov/isp/) (1,3,6)
Iowa (http://www.dps.state.ia.us/) (6)
Kansas (http://ag.ks.gov/public-safety/concealedcarry/concealed-carry) (1)
Kentucky (http://www.kentuckystatepolice.org/conceal.htm)
Louisiana (http://www.lsp.org/handguns.html) (1)
Michigan (http://www.michigan.gov/msp/1,1607,7-123-1591_3503_4654---,00.html) (1,4)
Mississippi (http://www.dps.state.ms.us/) (1)
Missouri (http://ago.mo.gov/Concealed-Weapons/)
Montana (https://doj.mt.gov/enforcement/concealed-weapons/) (3)
Nebraska (https://statepatrol.nebraska.gov/Faqs.aspx) (1)
New Hampshire (http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/nhsp/ssb/permitslicensing/plupr.html) (1,3,4,6)
New Mexico (http://www.dps.nm.org/index.php/nm-concealed-carry/) (1)
North Carolina (http://www.ncdoj.com/About-DOJ/Law-Enforcement-Training-and-Standards/Law-Enforcement-Liason/Concealed-Weapon-Reciprocity.aspx) (1)
North Dakota (http://www.ag.state.nd.us/BCI/CW/CW.htm) (3,6)
Ohio (http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/ConcealedCarry.aspx/?from=nav) (1)
Oklahoma (https://www.ok.gov/osbi/Handgun_Licensing/index.html) (1)
Pennsylvania (http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/crime.aspx?id=184) (1,4,6)
South Carolina (http://www.sled.sc.gov/cwp.aspx?MenuID=CWP) (1,4,6)
South Dakota (https://sdsos.gov/default.aspx) (1,3)
Tennessee (http://www.tn.gov/safety/handgunmain.shtml) (1,6)
Texas (https://www.txdps.state.tx.us/rsd/chl/index.htm) (1,3,6)
Utah (http://publicsafety.utah.gov/bci/FAQ.html) (1,6)
Vermont (http://www.atg.state.vt.us/issues/gun-laws.php) (2)
Virginia (http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms.shtm) (1,6)
Washington (http://www.atg.wa.gov/ConcealedWeapons/Reciprocity.aspx) (1,6)
West Virginia (http://www.wvago.gov/gunrecep.cfm) (1)
Wyoming (http://attorneygeneral.state.wy.us/dci/index.html) (1,3)
(1) While Florida's law allows licensees to carry stun guns, knives, and billy clubs in a concealed fashion, the laws in these states allow for concealed carry of handguns or pistols ONLY, NOT WEAPONS IN GENERAL. Florida license holders are prohibited from carrying other types of weapons while in these states.
(2) The State of VERMONT does not issue weapon/firearms licenses. Florida licensees - indeed, licensed or unlicensed citizens from any state - may carry in Vermont. This presents a problem for reciprocity with Florida. Florida law provides that an out-of-state resident must have in his or her immediate possession a valid license to carry a concealed weapon or firearm. Since Vermont residents have no such license, the right to concealed carry cannot be extended to them under Florida law.
(3) Individuals qualify for concealed weapon licenses in these states upon reaching 18 years of age. HOWEVER, any licensee of these reciprocity states who is not 21 years of age or older IS PROHIBITED from carrying a concealed weapon or firearm in Florida.
(4) These states will honor the Florida concealed weapon license ONLY IF the licensee is a resident of the State of Florida.
(5) The Attorney General's Office of the State of ALABAMA has indicated that Alabama will honor BOTH resident and non-resident Florida licenses. However, the Alabama Attorney General notes that there is some uncertainty as to the limits of Alabama's reciprocity law as it pertains to non-resident licenses. Pending clarification by the Alabama Legislature or a decision by an Alabama court, he urges non-resident Florida license holders to exercise caution. Refer to the Alabama AG's Web page for the latest information.
(6) These states issue concealed carry licenses to qualified individuals who are non-residents. These non-resident permits cannot be honored under Florida's reciprocity provision.
WingedMonkey
03-15-2013, 20:44
Florida is so loose with concealed-carry gun permits that folks in other states that did not qualify or were revoked where getting them in the mail.
Last month Pennsylvania changed/updated it's reciprocity agreement with Florida.
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/local/state/pa-attorney-general-closes-florida-loophole-on-concealed-gun-permits-673956/
Sarcasm the elf
03-15-2013, 20:45
NJ is tough, it is usually left up to the Chiefs in the individual townships, unless you have a purpose for carry;ie job, retired LEO.....ect.
Non-Rocket sock, Is it true that possession of hollowpoint bullets is a felony in NJ? I've heard this from several folks but never had it confirmed.
For Massachusetts you must apply every year and in person for non-resident permit.
Adam, Do you have any links or info about how to apply for a non resident permit? I didn't know one was even available.
Interesting stuff.
How do the restrictions on non-firearms vary from state to state? Knives, Hatchets, Pointed Sticks. I'm guessing some of the laws are deliberately vague, but if a foreigner, non-terrorist, wanted to arm himself, how could he legally go about it. Hiking Staff and Hatchet? Easier to get away with on a trail I would presume.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MntgMIJbvA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_R6glvPblvw
Just to add to Jak's comment, the wonderful state of Massachusetts has made it a felony to carry pepperspray without a permit. I feel this is worth to mention since it has the potential to make many thru hikers into felons. Oddly enough full on EPA registered bear spray is perfectly legal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_spray#Legality
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepper_spray#United_States
Lone Wolf
03-15-2013, 23:37
Vermont is the best. no permit. the 2nd is your permit. god given right to protect yourself, loved ones and other potential victims
rocketsocks
03-16-2013, 01:43
Non-Rocket sock, Is it true that possession of hollowpoint bullets is a felony in NJ? I've heard this from several folks but never had it confirmed.
Adam, Do you have any links or info about how to apply for a non resident permit? I didn't know one was even available.
Just to add to Jak's comment, the wonderful state of Massachusetts has made it a felony to carry pepperspray without a permit. I feel this is worth to mention since it has the potential to make many thru hikers into felons. Oddly enough full on EPA registered bear spray is perfectly legal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_spray#Legality
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepper_spray#United_StatesI've heard this to, and honestly do not know, they sell them and in bulk packs for target practice rounds;ie 22LR, now that said, I'd bet if used in the commision of a crime, you'd be charged with using them, but again unclear on that whole thing.
bronconite
03-18-2013, 10:53
I wonder what the legalities of bouncing one up the trail through states that do not have reciprocity laws? For example, you can't have one in NJ-MA and don't want to leave it at a PO in a box over 30 days so you mail it to a PO in CT and forward it from there to VT where it would be legal again? :D
The Post Office will ship firearms. BUT, it is not legal for you to posess a firearm in a Post Office unless you hold an FFL (Federal Firearms License). So, unless you can convince the Postmaster to take posession of your package outside, or at the door, it's not going to work out.
Roll Tide
03-18-2013, 13:43
As a retired Postal employee I know it is not legal to mail firearms or ammo thru the mail.
vamelungeon
03-18-2013, 18:30
As a retired Postal employee I know it is not legal to mail firearms or ammo thru the mail.
You are quite mistaken.
vamelungeon
03-18-2013, 18:33
An FFL can ship firearms via USPS.
vamelungeon
03-18-2013, 18:39
Sorry, im having trouble posting. Anyone can mail a long gun, FFL can mail handguns. You fill out a form 1508. The gun must be declared but the package must not be marked to show the contents.
Durtydan
03-18-2013, 22:03
as someone who just dealt with the processes to get a few ccws, I found that the combination of Florida, Virginia, and Arizona cover 34 states and is good to have multiples because some have different laws for which are valid in which states and when it comes time for one or the other to expire, you should have another one that will still cover your back.
all three can be done by mail with a few simple forms printed out with the exception of the fingerprint cards that must be sent from the state individually. your local PD should fingerprint you for no cost and assuming you have a basic pistol training course under your belt, it comes down to waiting for everything to process which varies but usually takes about 3 months to get an answer/ccw card.
the usacarry maps are a great tool to understand where your licenses are valid but it's always good to double and triple check the laws...you do not want to get caught with your pants down and a gun in them lol.
I personally find no need to carry a firearm on the AT and most of the northeast is near impossible to legally carry in so good luck whoever is attempting to do so and happy trails
Tuckahoe
03-18-2013, 23:01
Regarding the shipping of firearms, only FFL holders may ship a pistol/handgun through the US Mail. Non-FFL or unlicensed individuals may ship rifles and shotguns through the US mail, but must use a common carrier -- ie Fedex or UPS -- to ship a pistol. It is legal for an individual to ship a firearms to themselves, in care of another, however, only the owner of the firearm may open their box.
For someone wanting to carry, and bounce a boxed firearm ahead, to avoid those that are not free states such as NY or NJ, the backpacker would have to go to a Fedex or UPS hub or schedule a package pick up and ship the pistol to an addressee willing to receive the package for you, and who understands that only the pistol's owner can open the package. Fedex Office and UPS stores do not handle the shipping of firearms, you must go to the hub or schedule pickup.
The_watch_guy
03-18-2013, 23:06
IMHO I am not worried about carrying my pistol on the trail, I'm retired LEO, but what would happen to me if I did. That could be worse than worrying about if it was legal for me to carry in that state. Thats for thr courts to descide much later on.
Tuckahoe
03-18-2013, 23:07
As a retired Postal employee I know it is not legal to mail firearms or ammo thru the mail.
Meh, in my experience, postal employees are usually the least knowledgeable about Federal law and postal regulations regarding the shipping of firearms.
IMHO I am not worried about carrying my pistol on the trail, I'm retired LEO, but what would happen to me if I did. That could be worse than worrying about if it was legal for me to carry in that state. Thats for thr courts to descide much later on.
As retired LEO you would be covers under HR 218 aka nationwide carry privileges for active and retired LEO. Just have to qual every year in your state of residence. For some others could be a headache
The_watch_guy
03-19-2013, 13:00
Bear ... I was refering to what the local District attourney or a grand jury might do to me afterwards. But I always said it it better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.
Old Hiker
03-19-2013, 13:16
Florida is so loose with concealed-carry gun permits that folks in other states that did not qualify or were revoked where getting them in the mail.
Last month Pennsylvania changed/updated it's reciprocity agreement with Florida.
http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/local/state/pa-attorney-general-closes-florida-loophole-on-concealed-gun-permits-673956/
Knee-jerk reaction is to deny a problem: specifics, please? I know (I have one) that the classes here in FL are NOT as tough as other states. One round fired into a gun catch-barrel for example, whereas in Texas my father and brothers had to PASS a firing course with a competent score.
From the FL web-site for requirements:
Requirements:
All paperwork for your permit may be requested via mail for free:
http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/FORMS/FormsRequest790.html
1. You must be 21 to get a conceled carry permit.
2. Have a passport-style, color photograph made.
3. Get verification of training that satisfies the training requirement. NRA, DD-14, state training course, etc. . Persons serving in the United States Armed Forces may submit a copy of their Military ID Card to satisfy the training requirement.
4. Get certified copies of court documents relating to any criminal charges against you.
5. Take the fingerprint card to a local law enforcement agency and ask to be fingerprinted. In addition to providing fingerprinting services for the traditional “hard-card” format, electronic fingerprint devices are available at almost all 67 county sheriff’s offices in the state. Visit the Electronic Fingerprints Information page to learn how Live Scan fingerprinting saves processing time.* http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/CWCS/elecfingerprintinfo.html
6. Complete the application. Either print clearly with ink or type the information.
7. In the presence of a notary, sign application.**
8. Submit a check or money order for the license fee of $117
Feral Bill
03-19-2013, 13:34
I've seen no discussion of open carry states, of which, I believe, there are several. One source lists Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Arizona, New Mexico, South Dakota, Vermont, West Virginia, Virginia, Alaska and Kentucky. Comments?
Tuckahoe
03-19-2013, 13:37
So - I have considered getting the license - but there are so many places you are not allowed to carry.....maybe I am missing the point here....if it is concealed - who knows I have it.......and therefore going to arrest me for it.....and IF i have to display it (use it) - I'm less concerned about the 12 than I was about the person (or animal) I used it against
Only referring to Virginia, the limitations on where you can carry are pretty minimal, and amount to only courthouses and secondary schools, and Federal buildings.
Where Unlawful to Carry
§18.2-308 (J.3.) (http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308): No person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in § 4.1-100 (http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+4.1-100) for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia; may consume an alcoholic beverage while on the premises. A person who carries a concealed handgun onto the premises of such a restaurant or club and consumes alcoholic beverages is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor. However, nothing in this subsection shall apply to a federal, state, or local law-enforcement officer.
§18.2-308 (http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308) (O.): Private property when prohibited by the owner of the property, or where posted as prohibited.
§18.2-283: (http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-283) To a place of worship while a meeting for religious purposes is being held at such place, without good and sufficient reason.
§18.2-283.1 (http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-283.1): Courthouse.
§18.2-308.1 (http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-308.1): School property. Exemptions to this statute include a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school.
§18.2-287.01 (http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-287.01): Carrying weapon in air carrier airport terminal.
Indiana Camper
03-19-2013, 14:17
Something being a gun or ammo? Otherwise, just about every hiker out there would be breaking federal law.
Yep, my bad. I was doing too many things at once. I believe it is against the law to mail a firearm. It must be sent by a dealer.
Tuckahoe
03-19-2013, 14:35
Yep, my bad. I was doing too many things at once. I believe it is against the law to mail a firearm. It must be sent by a dealer.
See my post above. Non-FFLs may send rifles and shotguns through the US mail, but must ship pistols by a common carrier.
bronconite
03-19-2013, 20:31
I've seen no discussion of open carry states, of which, I believe, there are several. One source lists Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, Arizona, New Mexico, South Dakota, Vermont, West Virginia, Virginia, Alaska and Kentucky. Comments?
Pennsylvania is also.
Non-Rocket sock, Is it true that possession of hollowpoint bullets is a felony in NJ? I've heard this from several folks but never had it confirmed.
Adam, Do you have any links or info about how to apply for a non resident permit? I didn't know one was even available.
Just to add to Jak's comment, the wonderful state of Massachusetts has made it a felony to carry pepperspray without a permit. I feel this is worth to mention since it has the potential to make many thru hikers into felons. Oddly enough full on EPA registered bear spray is perfectly legal.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bear_spray#Legality
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepper_spray#United_States
Here's a link for non resident Mass permit. http://www.mass.gov/eopss/docs/chsb/firearms/non-resident-application-2013.pdf
I had a permit for almost 10 years but not able to drive to Chelsea every year so I no longer have a legal permit, If I was worried and carrying through Massachusetts I would just have my weapon disassembled while hiking in Mass.
As a retired Correction officer I really don't feel safe without my sidearm and I know the A.T. is 99 percent safe but 2 times in the past ten years I had to show my weapon while just walking around town..
BradyCycler
03-22-2013, 00:47
FYI - You *need* a New York pistol permit just to physically possess a pistol in NY (the whole state, not just NYC). They are annoying to get ($100+ application fee, character references, finger printing, 6+ month wait period) and virtually impossible to get if you're an out-of-state resident. FOPA protects people travelling through states like NY, but it was written for people driving through (unloaded & locked case in trunk) and I doubt will protect someone hiking thru.
If you get caught with a pistol in NY, it's a felony and you'll be going directly to jail. The gun laws here are BS, I have an unrestricted NY pistol permit (you can get them in roughly half the upstate counties) which allow me to carry concealed, but even then NYC is its own little fiefdom, if I brought a pistol into NYC I would get arrested just like anyone else.