heading out west

[zac39452]

Hey everybody! My family and I are heading out west this summer and are going to be visiting most of the national parks; saguaro and grand canyon in arizona and staying in sedona a few days. Then heading to the mojave, sequioa and yosemite, traveling to the pacific ocean, then heading to salt lake city to visit relatives. After that we will be traveling to yellowstone, back to salt lake city and then down to arches national park before going to rockie mountain national park, kansis city and st louis before heading back home. Having only gone as far west as Texas i figured i would turn to all of yall friendly people for advice on what i must see while out there. Im really big into backpacking and climbing! We are planning on staying overnight below the rim in the canyon so Any help is greatly appreciated. here is a thread to google maps with a pin everywhere we will stop https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=212894921028564043467.0004d7ff28a3fd248a99 d&msa=0

[zac39452]

i Forgot to mention we will be taking about a month for this trip and will be staying almost exclusively in national and state parks to keep costs down !> :)

[fiddlehead]

Well first of all, you should see the grand canyon and perhaps do some hiking there.
The most popular (and easiest but most crowded) would be the Bright Angel trail.

There is some good desert hiking around Sedona also, There's a peak just to the south of town that is a fairly easy walkup with good views.
Take lots of water for both of those.

What else? Tons of hiking out west.
CO is perhaps the best if you are not too familiar with desert hiking. (can be very enjoyable but there are many things that experience helps with)
Also Yosemite is spectacular of course (central CA) and all around that area (Sierras)
I would jump on the PCT around Cottonwood pass if possible and head north for a few days depending on how long your family will wait for you.
It is quite remote.

Best: southern CO (Silverthorn area), Yosemite (and anywhere on the JMT),
Good desert hiking: Around Sedona, Grand Canyon, Joshua Tree NP.

Tons more.

[MuddyWaters]

A month isnt long enough to do what you want.
You can visit each place briefly , but all you will be able to do is say "I went there"
Most of your month will be driving around

If you dont already have reservations for the Grand Canyon, you arent getting them.

[swjohnsey]

If you are planning to stay overnight below the rim at the Grand Canyon you are probably too late for a permit. If you think staying in a national park is cheap you are in for a shock.

[Train Wreck]

If you are planning to stay overnight below the rim at the Grand Canyon you are probably too late for a permit. If you think staying in a national park is cheap you are in for a shock.

Be sure to check into getting an America the Beautiful Annual Pass from one of the Park Service visitor centers. They are a really good deal - here is a link:
http://www.nps.gov/shen/planyourvisit/annual-passes.htm
Look past the Shenandoah NP info about midway down the page. (The NPS website is currently unavailable).

[zac39452]

Hey everybody thanks for the replies yes i know a month is not very much time at all we will only be able to staya t a place a few days but this is probably the only time my parents are going to make the trip out there so they want to see all they can i wold be more than content to spend my whole month at yellowstone or yosemite:) And yes, Some national parks arent the cheapest but it sure beats 60 dollars a night for a hotel! thanks for the info fiddle head and i think were going to try for the permits today if we cant get them then we may try for just the walk up pass thing!

[fiddlehead]

I know of a good place to stealth camp (even with a car) not far from the entrance to the grand canyon but not going to put it out on the "net"
You can find them.
If you can't get a permit to overnight camp below the rim, just hike down to the tonto plateau and back up.
At least in the last century this was no problem.

[winger]

Get an ANNUAL NATIONAL PARKS PASS. Once purchased you are good to enter all the National Parks without a fee. And yes it is expensive in the Parks.

[garlic08]

At the Grand Canyon, just forget about "the corridor" down Bright Angel Trail. But if you have enough time and hiking ability to head over on the Tonto Trail to Horn Creek or Monument Creek, you might have a chance. Check at the backcountry office when you get there and see what's available. They keep some spots open for walk-ins, I think. If you're there in the summer, you're talking about some real heat down low with very little water off the corridor. You didn't say which months, but normally June is quite hot and dry in AZ and in July and August the "monsoon" moisture comes in too, with often daily, sometimes violent afternoon storms.

[swjohnsey]

For the Grand Canyon you can avoid the crowds and permits, etc. and hike down to Supai.

[brian039]

Best: southern CO (Silverthorn area)



I'm sure you meant Silverton :)

[Carry-On]

You can consider the North Rim of the Grand Canyon for fewer crowds. It's a higher elevation than the South Rim, and if you have any interest in Zion and Bryce National Parks, the North Rim is just a couple of hours away from Zion. Speaking of Zion, it's my favorite in Southern Utah. During the season there is a free shuttle up the main canyon. I recommend Angels Landing (4-5 miles round trip depending on if you scramble up the steep rocks for the last half mile-which I recommend if you don't have a bad fear of heights). Observation Point looks down on Angel's Landing and is 8 miles round trip. It ends at a giant cliff, but is less scary to hike than Angels Landing. The river walk is fun in the heat of summer. You can hike in the Virgin River up in the Narrows and explore side canyons. There are all sorts of shorter or longer hikes depending on what your goals are.

Definitely purchase the National Parks Pass that's good for a year if you haven't already.

[yaduck9]

For the Grand Canyon you can avoid the crowds and permits, etc. and hike down to Supai.

2 votes for Havasupai.......http://www.havasupaifalls.net/hiking.html

Seqouia national Park is very popular, Kings Canyon is less crowded ( Watch our for the black bears ) has same Sequoia's

The Highway West of the Sierra Mountains travels faster but is desert, irrigated farm land. The Highway East of the Mountains ( 395 ) is slightly slower but more scenic http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Route_395_in_California You can enter Yosemite via the Tioga rd, big elevation gain ( closed in winter ), cold. Going in thru the "back door" is less crowded. At the begining of Tioga rd, is a public campsite.

There are two moutain bike shops that rent bikes ( there a stones throw from each other ) in Oak Creek Village/Sedona. there is a La Quinta right nearby . hiking/mt bike trails right in the vicinity



Just my 02 cents

[Dogwood]

A month isnt long enough to do what you want.
You can visit each place briefly , but all you will be able to do is say "I went there"
Most of your month will be driving around

If you dont already have reservations for the Grand Canyon, you arent getting them.

I'm like a hungry dog and you just threw me a juicy T-Bone. We could go into several books I could write on all those places you plan on visiting. I've been to every NP you mention hiking other than Saguaro and all those cities. BUT, I'm trying not to bite into that T-Bone because MW is right. You are only going to visit those places in a shotgun fashion. I definitely don't hike or typically travel that way so I'll pass. You'll spend more time driving to all those places than actually whatever at those places.

[Odd Man Out]

I agree with others above that the scope of this trip will not allow time for extended visits at any of these locations. Don't underestimate the time it takes to drive to places out west. Also, these parks are in remote places for a reason and things that don't look too far away can still take a whole day of driving due to mountains, poor roads, etc... It looks like you have about 17 destinations that will take a full day of driving to get to. And since you are camping, you will need to add time each day to make and break camp. So on a month trip, that will leave you with about one full day in each location. I suppose some of these will just be overnight stops, so at most you will a few places you could have two or three days. You've already allocated "a few days" to Sedona. When you say "visit relatives in SLC", does that mean "stay overnight en route to Yellowstone" or "spend a few days with them" (the latter is going to complicate things more). I've done plenty of trips like this and while yes it would be nice to spend a week backpacking in Yosemite, these kinds of trips can allow you to see a lot, albeit superficially. Yes, in some cases you can only say "you went there", but that may be better than saying "I didn't go there", if that is your only other option. It is a different way of traveling than the 2 mph hiker is used to. You just have to accept that. Some people won't, but that's ok - it's not their trip.

Planning is the key to making the most of this kind of trip. I guess I would start by deciding which places are the highest priority and which might be expendable. You said "traveling to the pacific ocean". That's kind of vague. It took us a whole day to drive from Yosemite to Monterey. Then you would need a whole day to get back. That's two days of driving just to see the ocean? As the ocean isn't really very close to any place else you are going, unless this is super important to someone, I would suggest giving up on this idea. Also, Sequioia and Yosemite will give you similar experiences (big trees, big valleys, Sierra Mts). You could consider cutting one of these two. I know it is tempting to add every park since you are driving right by it (or so it would seem). But the access to these parks are on narrow mountain roads. Start doing some comparisons. If you could cut out two days of driving by skipping a drive through of SEKI, you could then spend two more days in Yosemite (where you could similar things). Here are a couple of other possible ideas to consider. You said you plan to drive from SLC to Yellowstone and back. That's two days of driving. Yellowstone is huge and there are tons of things to see and do. Plus it would impossible not to stop and see the Tetons en route (in this case they really are "on the way"). Yes Yellowstone is iconic, but it's so far out of the way, I can't see anything less than three nights (two full days) would be reasonable. Also, think about what you want to do. Planning this as a car camping trip with day hikes will be hard. Putting in some multiple night backcountry trips would make your life even harder.

I've had this conversation with my wife many times. She points to something on the map 5 hrs out of the way and says "you didn't say we were going right by xxxxx, why don't we stop there?". I do the math and ask "Which of the major national parks do you want to cut from our trip so you can see xxxx?". She then gets angry because she realizes she won't get to see xxxx. But when we get that that national park that she really wanted to see, she's happy again. If she were planning our trips, we would never actually get to where we really wanted to go. Where do you really want to go and really want to do? I mean REALLY WANT?

[zac39452]

Right now were still really in the beginning of planning it and this is just places that everybody has been throwing around that we would like to see. We will probably end up cutting out places so that we will get to spend more time in places like yellowstone and the like. Alot of these places are just going to be overnight stops in between the places that we want to see eg: sedona, grand canyon, yosemite, yellowstone, and the rockies. Thanks for all the ideas everybody such a great communtiy on white blaze.

[bigcranky]

This will be a great trip. We did something similar in 2006, when I had a conference in Provo, and then we spent 2+ weeks in Utah, Arizona, and Colorado. Just spending a few days in each park and doing day hikes is a blast. Some suggestions:

Get on the trail early! It's hot in the summer, so we like to be out hiking pre-dawn, and back by late morning. This also lets you avoid the massive crowds that will fill every national park trail by midday.

Arches is amazing. Plan to walk out to Delicate Arch late in the afternoon and stay for sunset. Awesome view and makes for great photos. Easy ~2mile hike back to you car in the dark. (Bring a headlamp. Duh.)

The North Rim is great. It's possible to get a camp site by driving up early in the morning, usually for just one night (you can re-up each morning.) The hike down to Roaring Spring is 5 miles and pretty awesome, though the hike back up is hot in the middle of the day. We did that in late June and it was mid-30s in the parking lot and 105-F at the springs.

Yellowstone was cool, but crowded. Getting up and about early is a big deal here, too.

You might think about cutting back on part of the trip. We decided not to try for California on our trip, so we could spend more time in Utah and Colorado. We had done the northern loop (Glacier, Yellowstone, Olympic, the Dakotas) several years earlier, so we didn't need to get up north either.

Good luck and have fun.

[Odd Man Out]

Right now were still really in the beginning of planning it and this is just places that everybody has been throwing around that we would like to see. We will probably end up cutting out places so that we will get to spend more time in places like yellowstone and the like. Alot of these places are just going to be overnight stops in between the places that we want to see eg: sedona, grand canyon, yosemite, yellowstone, and the rockies. Thanks for all the ideas everybody such a great communtiy on white blaze.

This is an excellent start. Picking a few key destinations to plan around, with the rest just being places to see en route is a good idea. Looking at your original itinerary, this would be an excellent short list if you were looking to do a grand tour of iconic parks in one month.

Here is how I would do it. One routing takes you to the North Rim of GC. This has the advantage of taking you right past Zion, which would be way cool. If you do this, be sure to drive in on the road from the east. If you chose the south rim, you would go past Hoover Dam, which would be worth seeing and is overall a little less driving. My routing takes you through the Tetons into Yellowstone (sort of a no brainer) and out the North East exit over the Beartooth Pass. This might be too far out of the way, but this the drive through the NE corner of Yellowstone over the Pass is very cool (if you can take altitude).

http://goo.gl/maps/CWBWx
http://goo.gl/maps/nwqnr

The North Rim/South Rim of the GC is an interesting question. The south rim would give you the most iconic images and more hiking options. But as pointed out above, the north rim is quieter, cooler, and more relaxing. If you are set on hiking below the rim at the GC, you have fewer options (only one option) at the North Rim. But only 10% of the GC visitors go to the North Rim, so even the one option will be quieter. Then you need to decide if you want to do overnights in the backcountry. You would need to get your permits and work around those fixed dates, if possible.

[Mountain Mike]

Right next to Mojave is Providence Mountain SP & Mitchell Cavern. http://www.parks.ca.gov/?page_id=615 it as listed as closed at the moment but it has a small campground with great views into NV & AZ, Then there is the tour of the the cavern! Hopefully it will be open by the time of your trip20419

Also close by is Amboy Crater. http://www.blm.gov/ca/st/en/fo/needles/amboy.html It’s a short hike to the top with fantastic views.20420

If you go up 395, stop by Fossil Falls. A unique lava waterfall? Not sure how to describe it. http://www.totalescape.com/tripez/trips/fossil.html

[SCRUB HIKER]

Free BLM-land car camping near Arches and Canyonlands (http://goo.gl/maps/NMuKq). I've been to this spot three times and even when all the sites have been reserved, there's enough space that we've set up shop off in a corner and never been bothered. If it's too full, there's so much BLM land around there that you can poke around and find something for a night or two of free camping. It looks like this when you wake up.
20421

When you're in Arches, if you're equipped to handle the midsummer heat, pony up the extra $5 in the morning and be one of the 75 people per day that they let into the Fiery Furnace section of the park. There's plenty of shade in there, but still, it gets so unbelievably hot in the summer that I'd get out by mid-afternoon, take a siesta, then go to Delicate Arch for sunset. The Fiery Furnace looks roughly like this--a big playground of rock that you can scramble around on all day.
20422

Oh, and this almost goes without saying, but read Edward Abbey's Desert Solitaire before you explore southeastern Utah. Try to ignore the fact that you, as a summer road-tripper who never strays far from his vehicle, are one of the people that he absolutely despises, and just enjoy the beauty of his writing.

Like Dogwood said, there are novels of advice to give on each one of the places you want to visit. I've just tried to give you the stuff-you-can-do-in-one-day-and-one-night-in-one-place version.

[Carry-On]

FYI, if you had any plans of driving between Flagstaff and Page, AZ on Hwy 89, you can't. The road is broken. There is a detour that will add up to an hour of driving, but you'll want to be aware if this is in your route. It will not be fixed any time soon, if at all.

http://azdailysun.com/news/local/road-collapse-closes-highway-south-of-page/article_bbcc2858-7ba6-11e2-82cd-0019bb2963f4.html

[yaduck9]

FYI, if you had any plans of driving between Flagstaff and Page, AZ on Hwy 89, you can't. The road is broken. There is a detour that will add up to an hour of driving, but you'll want to be aware if this is in your route. It will not be fixed any time soon, if at all.

http://azdailysun.com/news/local/road-collapse-closes-highway-south-of-page/article_bbcc2858-7ba6-11e2-82cd-0019bb2963f4.html


Yes, a section of 89 is closed; http://www.azdot.gov/us89/ But, the good news is that 89 A http://www.azdot.gov/us89/ cuts across and goes right by the North Rim access/campground of the Grand Canyon. It also takes you through the Vermillion Cliffs and runs right by Lee's Ferry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lees_Ferry . It then goes into Kanab, UT. A Much nicer town then Page

[etboy]

Make sure you go to Zion. Bryce Canyon is a hop a skip and a jump away. And the North Rim of the GC about 130 miles. Be very careful about hiking in the GC in the Summer, every year people die. I hike rim to rim the last week that the North rim is open in mid October, and while it is freezing on the top when you start, by the time you get to the bottom, you're hiking in the nineties. Also be aware that if you hike from the south rim, the south Kaibab trail (7 miles to river) has no water, whilst Bright Angel (9 miles to river) has 3 spigots from Indian Garden up. A stream flows on the lower part also, so you could filter as you go lower down.

[Dogwood]

Best in general advice I've read so far if doing what you said is get the NP Pass, BLM and FREE or nominal fee etc camping area info, condense(whittle it down, this NOT ONLY applies to the number of places on your list but also the number of things that you can do at each location!) your agenda PRE TRIP but still be a bit flexible along the way(MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT THIS IF IF IF you want the trip to be a more unhurried more comfortable higher quality experience rather than doing EVERYTHING IN A SHOTGUN FASHION where you'll probably need a vacation after a hurried vacation, CAN ONLY EXPERIENCE SO MANY THINGS IN A HIGHER QUALITY WAY GIVEN 30 DAYS!, CAN NOT EMPHASIZE THIS ENOUGH!, IF even attempting to hit all those places and doing all(most) of what you have proposed in your link it's equivalent to jamming the double cheeseburger, biggie fries, milk shake and apple pie into you mouth at once attempting to gulp it down in one swallow and thinking you'll enjoy the meal!), do give lots of consideration in the organizing of the trip to reduce wasted time on the trip(*WHICH IS A WHOLE LOT EASIER* IF IF IF your family and you heed #3 in this paragraph(condense your agenda). Since you still have time to prepare order brochures, visit websites especially the NP and SP ones, check up on camping areas, look at books, etc pre trip. Sit down taking the time with the members in your trip to come to a consensus agreeing what experiences take the highest priority and making cases for why you ALL will enjoy certain places and activities. For example, concede to something one member of the family, like MOM, might like doing more than you for something you might like doing more than MOM. This way there will be a happier family atmosphere on the trip without any one member deciding for all the others what's going to happen. Tales a little more cooperation this way but you will ALL have a better experience that way!

Tell you one more possibly important little factor. You are going on this trip when MANY MANY MANY others are doing typical trips in a hurried shotgun fashion making it crowded, more time consuming, harder or next to impossible to accomplish what you want, etc etc etc on your whole trip. So, not only can that alter your trip experiences, in a myriad of ways, but also can/will take away from some of those hours in those 30 days!

SIMPLIFY. DO NOT approach your trip in a hurried wanna be somewhere else over eager do too much in too soon/short of a time way which is OH SO TYPICAL of how newbie wannabe AT thru hikers approach their thru-hikes. Hey, I was once there too and still have to guard against this type of mentality. I'll turn you into an ULer yet. Really, focus on having a good time on your trip with your family knowing that MORE IS NOT ALWAYS BETTER!~

[Cookerhiker]

Even with a month, you can't do justice to all the natural wonders of the West, as you're well aware. As much as I like the Southwest, I'd save it for a spring trip. Even though the desert and desert-like areas are cooler and more comfortable at night than the humid East, I'd confine the trip to the northern tier. The only possible exception is the Grand Canyon North Rim. You'd enjoy cooler temps in an atmosphere more reminiscent of Colorado and still get the great views of the Canyon.

So when I say "Northern Tier," I'm talking Rocky Mountain, Yellowstone, Grand Teton, Glacier, Yosemite, and (time permitting) Redwood and Crater Lake. In addition, there are 2 other lesser known parks that I didn't see mentioned: Great Basin in Nevada and Lassen in California. They're both uncrowded, the former is a "sky island" in the midst of the desert where you can camp at 10'K and hike all the way up Wheeler Peak >13'K. The latter hosts a portion of the PCT and features thermal activity similar - but not on as grand a scale - as Yellowstone.

The Grand Canyon is the southernmost park I've mentioned. If you decide to defer it until another trip, you may have time to add the far-North parks of Olympic, Mt. Rainier, North Cascades, and Glacier.

If you go to Yosemite, you'll be able to see giant sequoias i.e. you don't have to go to Sequoia NP to see them although Yosemite's campsites are more likely full.

[zac39452]

thanks everybody for all the advice and info ill let yall know when we finalize our itenerary!:banana

[MrMiner2]

I have always used a .02 micron filter. So far so good. I know it depends on the sources, but I have even taking too big of a risk.

What should I know about water/backcountry/and viruses.

Thanks!