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LionDog
03-22-2013, 08:58
Hello Fine Folks,

If Im treating more than a liter at a time, for example if I was to treat 2 liters, can I just double the drops to 14ea. of A&B and still have the same safe results.

Thanks

leaftye
03-22-2013, 09:11
Yes. The directions on the bottle even says to use 28 drops for a gallon.

Don H
03-22-2013, 09:40
Yep, that's what I do.
Also keep the mixing cap after you empty your first set and keep it for a spare and for mixing multiple doses at one time.

Praha4
03-22-2013, 09:50
on that subject, does anyone pre-mix AM in a separate dropper bottle, so you have the "mix" ready to treat without having to wait the 5 minutes every time you get new water?

I've read some hikers suggest doing that, say if you do "pre-mix" AM, the mix is good for a couple days, as long as the mix still has the yellow color....

curious if anyone else does this and if the premix is good for that long.... I hate waiting the 5 minutes every time I get new water...

Hot Flash
03-22-2013, 09:55
on that subject, does anyone pre-mix AM in a separate dropper bottle, so you have the "mix" ready to treat without having to wait the 5 minutes every time you get new water?

I've read some hikers suggest doing that, say if you do "pre-mix" AM, the mix is good for a couple days, as long as the mix still has the yellow color....

curious if anyone else does this and if the premix is good for that long.... I hate waiting the 5 minutes every time I get new water...

Don't premix it. There is a reason that the components come in separate bottles.

Hot Flash
03-22-2013, 10:02
on that subject, does anyone pre-mix AM in a separate dropper bottle, so you have the "mix" ready to treat without having to wait the 5 minutes every time you get new water?

I've read some hikers suggest doing that, say if you do "pre-mix" AM, the mix is good for a couple days, as long as the mix still has the yellow color....

curious if anyone else does this and if the premix is good for that long.... I hate waiting the 5 minutes every time I get new water...


Sorry, I hit enter too soon. Chlorine dioxide has a half-life of 93 minutes:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=3028767&dopt=Abstract

If you were to mix it and then use it for the next couple of days as you suggest, you might as well just not treat your water at all.

bear bag hanger
03-22-2013, 10:23
I wish there was a link to the article, but quite a few years ago Backpacker magazine did a article on the effectiveness of treatment vs filtering vs not doing either. At 1st they were going to send the water, treated and filtered water to a lab, but found that to be too expensive. They decided to figure out how many people got water borne illnesses during one summer on one trail (I think it was the AT, but not sure). They carried out the percentages out to one decimal, but all three were about 15% and all within two or three tenths of a percentage to each other. Not sure this means don't bother treating the water, because they didn't account for how well each group collected water. It may be people who don't treat or filter spend more time looking for good water sources. But, in the end, if someone tells you they have been doing something for years and never got sick may just be part of the norm. It says almost nothing about well their system works, ie. letting the combined Agua Mira sit combined for more than 93 minutes and still not getting sick.

LionDog
03-22-2013, 10:24
You folks are awesome Thanks for the replies.

schnikel
03-22-2013, 22:06
on that subject, does anyone pre-mix AM in a separate dropper bottle, so you have the "mix" ready to treat without having to wait the 5 minutes every time you get new water?

I've read some hikers suggest doing that, say if you do "pre-mix" AM, the mix is good for a couple days, as long as the mix still has the yellow color....

curious if anyone else does this and if the premix is good for that long.... I hate waiting the 5 minutes every time I get new water...

My wife and I did this for the first half of our JMT hike in '11 and it worked fine. Done it on most the hikes since. We used a supper small dropper and premixed 1 days worth, though another hiker did the same for 2 days. After 2 days I have heard that the mix isn't good and should be pitched. Hate waiting those 5 min as well!
Schnikel

MuddyWaters
03-29-2013, 13:40
Sorry, I hit enter too soon. Chlorine dioxide has a half-life of 93 minutes:

.

That test, does not represent the stability of ClO2 in a sealed airtight container, not exposed to UV light.

Circulation in a piping system with organic material on the inside of the pipes, and spiking with sewage contaminant is not even the same thing.

ClO2 is a gas, and is soluble in water. It is mostly stable at low concentrations in the absence of light, or organic materials it can react with.

In a closed, dark, opaque container, it will last a while. In an open container, it will evaporate out the solution rapidly.

Premixing is done daily usually, basically you mix up in the morning,and are done using it in the afternoon. Maybe 10-12 hr tops, keeping it in sealed airtight small container.

I can promise you, the solution will retain the deep yellow color for days this way. I can assure you also it will be water-white after weeks this way.

The reason this works is :

1) you really dont need to treat most water at all, it is extra insurance
2) the treatment protocol you follow, is based on treating severely contaminated water anyway

Treatment to oxidize pathogens, is based on time x concentration . EPA has conservative treatment tables published for water treatment.
Basically, 1ppm for 4 minutes, is equal to 4ppm for 1 min, is equal to 0.25 ppm for 16 minutes.

Most bacteria are treated in one minute. But you wait 20 minutes. What does that mean? It means you potentially had 20x more chemical than you needed for bacteria. Or, that you could get by with 1/20 of the dosage that you likely used .

Giardia, is significantly deactivated in several minutes as well, Same applies. You could add much less, and get by if contamination is only minor, a few cysts vs. thousands of cysts., when waiting 20 minutes.

No one waits long enough for crypto to be treated, so it doesnt really matter.

If it all sounds like shooting in the dark, ...it is, to an extent . People dont get sick, because we dont really need to treat the water anyway, 99% of the time.

CenAZwalker
04-26-2013, 13:42
I premix Aguamira each morning and then as needed, in a 3ml black dropper bottle. Any pre-mix not used within 18 to 24 hours, I discard. It may last longer but just to be safe, that is my method. Good reply MuddyWaters!

Colter
04-28-2013, 06:49
...But, in the end, if someone tells you they have been doing something for years and never got sick may just be part of the norm. It says almost nothing about well their system works, ie. letting the combined Agua Mira sit combined for more than 93 minutes and still not getting sick.

I am going to just cut and paste an earlier post I made on the topic:

There are several scientific papers that have clearly shown the importance of treating water, some specifically studied the A.T.:

Health care needs of Appalachian Trail Hikers (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8482936) ...Methods to purify water need to be used regularly...

Medical Risks of Wilderness Hiking (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12681456) In a prospective surveillance study, 334 persons who hiked the Appalachian Trail for at least 7 days (mean [+/- SD] length of hike, 140 +/- 60 days) in 1997 were interviewed. Diarrhea is the most common illness limiting long-distance hikers. Hikers should purify water routinely, avoiding using untreated surface water

Influence of Hygiene on Gastrointestinal Illness among Wilderness Backpackers (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14769284) Lack of hygiene, specifically handwashing and cleaning of cookware, should be recognized as a significant contributor to wilderness gastrointestinal illness. Hikers should routinely disinfect water and avoid untreated surface water.

Honuben
07-13-2014, 06:49
I have a similar question regarding AM. If the dosage calls for 7 drops/1 liter, is it safe to use 6 drops for 750 ml bottles? (.75 x 7 = 5.25 drops).

Rocket Jones
07-13-2014, 07:55
I have a similar question regarding AM. If the dosage calls for 7 drops/1 liter, is it safe to use 6 drops for 750 ml bottles? (.75 x 7 = 5.25 drops).

Yep. (extra added for editor)

Honuben
07-13-2014, 07:56
Thanks Rocket Jones, good to know.