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Piragua
03-22-2013, 19:53
So among all the hardcore hiking enthusiasts on this site, I'd like to seek your opinions.

So I'm 18 and besides once at Mt. Desert Island in Maine, I've never hiked a day in my life (mostly due to living in an area of almost endless suburbs). But I do runcross country and track, which trains me physically and mentally to some extent. So my question is this: do I stand any chance of making the appalachian trail in 2.5 months, at 30 miles a day? Now I'm running on the assumptions that hiking training could be replaced by long-distance, fairly intense runs, and that hiking etiquette and techniques can be learned rather quickly. I was hoping that if I were able to comfortably log 8-10 miles consecutive days in jogging, I would be able to handle the appalachian trail.

I realize that most people who will set off on the AT won't make it, the majority failing because they can't handle the mental rigor. I think I can take care of the psychological challenges. I'm a thinker and just walking down the trail I wouldn't have any trouble occupying myself with something. I wanted to fundraise for charity on a "dollars per mile" basis that would keep me motivated by adding some responsibility to completeing the hike.

So here's some logistics. If I hike for approximately 12 hours a day at a pace of 2.5 mph or a pace of 24:00 per mile, I can cover 30 miles a day. It's like Andrew Askurka said, it's about how long you walk, not how fast. I have had previous over-use injuries from running before, and in fact I had to leave my cross country team because of it. But I never did prevention or strengthening exercises that I am willing to do now to get ready for the hike. Can I hear some advice about knee injuries and pain?

So does this plan sound capable of working given that I put in the work and I train for the next 3 months or do I just sound like a fool? I appreciate any advice and/or criticism.

Lone Wolf
03-22-2013, 20:00
i say no. not at your age and inexperience. prove me wrong

rocketsocks
03-22-2013, 20:05
Sure why not!....all depends on you, literally!

Special K
03-22-2013, 20:06
Sorry, don't have any advice to offer other than to ask if you've ever read Becoming Odyssa by Jennifer Pharr Davis? If not, google her name. She has done what you are trying to do.

Good Luck! :)

Storm
03-22-2013, 20:34
I think you show a lot by just thinking about doing something of this magnatude. Most people you age would only have girls (or boys, don't know which you are) and cars on their mind. I say if you can afford it, go for it. The worst that can happen is that you don't make it. By trying you won't be sitting at home thinking "should have".

rickb
03-22-2013, 21:10
Your question is sort of like asking if shooting under 5 under par at Augusta can be done. The answer is yes. But it's highly I likely for a pro, much less fo an specific amateur who tries very hard.

ignore the cheerleaders and pick a realistic goal, and go for that.

Don!t be the guy who ends up doing nothing because you discover too late that you can't do everything. No one can.

moldy
03-22-2013, 21:19
You won't even make it out of Maine. At the pace you need you won't last 10 days.

Slo-go'en
03-22-2013, 21:34
Sorry, nope not a chance. Hiking long distance days with a pack, up and down mountains, all day, every day in all kinds of weather is NOTHING like running track. It requires a level of stamina few can achive. Those that have done it have spent a lot of time training and gaining the experiance needed.

But that doesn't mean you shouldn't go out and get some of that training and experiance by going on a long hike. Start out with the only goal of surviving a month or two on the trail. Once you do that, you will know if you can or even want to try and do what is know as a speed hike.

fiddlehead
03-22-2013, 21:36
Expereince means a LOT!
Get out there now and start hiking.
Easy to say that you can do a mile in 24 minutes but, how about that 29th mile on day 12? (with sore feet, legs, and an empty stomach) (going up Mt Wash.)

booney_1
03-22-2013, 21:49
I've been a boy scout leader and backpacker my whole life. My son ran cross country and track. I've lead many scouts on day hikes, weekend hikes and week long section hikes...I'm also a runner. Running is not hiking. You use different muscles. For one thing you are moving your feet all day. The boys I have lead on section hikes (all in good shape, athletic) usually average 1 to 1.5 miles per hour on AT terrain.

I would first challenge you to find a trail near you, on level ground and try hiking 30 miles. Don't use a pack.(that would be almost impossible for you)...try it.
(no running allowed).

You think you will also find hiking "techniques" will be learned rather quickly. Hiking "techniques" are what keeps you warm, dry, and fed. They also keep you from getting lost. I've been camping/backpacking my whole life and I'm still learning new "techniques". There is more to it than you think. Everything from hanging a bear bag to fixing your blisters. Read the forums here, there are many things to master. Can you fix a stove? In the rain? In the dark??

I always encourage people to hike, but take some baby steps first. Next rainy night...sleep outside. Try some long day hikes. Part of the problem with inexperienced people is that they don't know their limits and they get into trouble.

so... TAKE A HIKE!!!

Malto
03-22-2013, 21:56
Before I tell you why I don't think you have a chance let me start by saying that I did exactly what you are proposing. Here's my per hike story:
1) I had been backpacking for years prior and LOVE the outdoors.
2) I trained specifically for the task for a year and a half.
3) I had hiked over 57 miles in a day prior to leaving, and that was with over 15000' elevation gain. I believe you need to be able to do 150% of your desired average and be able to walk the next day.
4) I got my base weight down to 8 lb. And I knew my gear, having used it exactly in the same high mile scenario as I was proposing. I could setup camp in under 15 minutes and tear down in the same.
5) one goal of my training was to make sure that none of my five hardest days of hiking occurred on my trip.
6) I completely understood how to fuel, hydrate and what my electrolyte limitations were.
7) I had my resupplies completely dialed in. I spent very little time in town.
8) I LOVE walking. There is nothing more relaxing for me.
9) I hiked thousands of miles solo. I knew I could spend time with myself.
10) I trained in all conditions I expected to hit of my hike. Rain, snow, darkness, desert, high elevation etc.
11) I had the money to buy my way into efficiency. I was able to anticipate gear failures and have items like new shoes ready before they were needed.

These are just off the top of my head. Are you ready? I suspect you have no idea because you don't have the experience to know. Here is a link to my journal, it was written for folks looking to do what you are contemplating.
http://postholer.com/journal/viewJournal.php?sid=fa46f461768319c29d87a4ae2e4cd0 f3&entry_id=20018

if you want the cliff notes read this:
http://postholer.com/journal/viewJournal.php?sid=fa46f461768319c29d87a4ae2e4cd0 f3&entry_id=27590

by no means am I trying to discourage you. I just laugh when I see "skurka said that its just 12 hours at 2.5mph". Go out and do it once and see if you even like it. When your done just remember, on your hike you need to go it the next day and the next day and...... Go for it, the average thru hiker only has a 1:5 chance of finishing a thruhike. The worst that can happen is you spend a week in the woods and have a humbling experience. Good luck.

Sarcasm the elf
03-22-2013, 21:58
Unfortunately, the time you are allotting yourself is not realistic, particularly for someone who is new to hiking and has not hiked the A.T. before.

Even the speed demon hikers that eventually do begin to do 25-30 mile days consistently all had to start off doing lower mileage to get used to the unique rigors of the trail. Folks that think they are going to do 30 mile days right out of the gate are fooling themselves.

Just to give you an idea, you are talking about two and a half months, or approximately 75 days. While there are no official speed records of the A.T., the widely accepted fastest times for an unsupported (traditional trip where you carry your own gear and hike the way most hikers do) thru hike is about 60 days for men set by Ward Leonard and 80 days for women set by Snorkel. Both of these people had hiked the entire trail at least once before and both had extensive backpacking experience going into their record breaking hikes.
More discussion about A.T. records can be found here: http://fastestknowntime.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=midatlantic&action=display&thread=6

Now all that said, I can assure you that as long as you don't get injured or quit, you can still absolutely do two and a half months of worth of hiking in two and a half months. Sticking with the trail for 75 days is a heck of an accomplishment for most people, regardless of how far they get and it's entirely likely that a person your age can complete more than half of the trail in this amount of time. As long as you adjust your expectations, you can still have a memorable trip within your time constraints.

Plus, honestly if you're trying to do this as a fund raiser, most people won't see much of a difference between you claiming that you are going to "hike the entire A.T." or you claiming that you are "going to hike 1,000 miles". To most folks, both of these goals seem equally awe inspiring.

Chaco Taco
03-22-2013, 21:58
You got this. Dont let someone tell you, you cant do something, esp on the internet

Rocket Jones
03-22-2013, 22:11
Give it a go. I really don't think you have a realistic shot, but you won't know unless you try. I would suggest though, that if you find you're falling short of your original goal that you slow down, relax and just enjoy the hike.

evyck da fleet
03-22-2013, 22:41
Well 8-10 miles could be 60-90 minutes a day of running to prepare for being on your feet for 12 hours a day of hiking? If running and hiking were that similar would you expect someone who hikes 20-30 miles per day to be able to run a marathon pretty easily after being home from their thru hike for a few weeks? If you plan on building up to 8-10 miles of running what do you think your daily average will be about? Apply that to building up your hiking mileage. Will you be hiking several 40 mile days to make up for the build up time? Will that be at 2.5 mph? Not saying it can't be done just giving a few things to think about to get started.

twilight
03-22-2013, 22:55
If you hike the trail in 2.5 months, how long would you allow for staying at Max Patch Bald, or The Humps or the Beauty Spot, McAfee Knob, Tinker Cliffs, the ponies at Grayson Highlands, Clingman's Dome, the Pinnicles, DWG, Harpers Ferry, the Ironmaster's Hostel, Angel's Rest, Charles Bunion, Dragontooth, Laurel Fork Falls, Trail Days, Sunfish Pond, etc, etc, etc,. Take the time to smell the roses. It's a hiking adventure that most people won't get to do twice in their lifetime.

Twilight

Odd Man Out
03-22-2013, 23:01
I will give you credit for one thing. The typical pattern is that an novice hiker posts that he is going to hike the AT in 2 months. Then half the experts on this site tell him he's crazy. Then the other half the experts whine at the other experts for being so negative. At least by asking for everyone's opinion, you made all the experts less grumpy (yeah). I don't know if you will make it but I hope you have a great hike. With luck you will get to the end are not care anymore how long it took.

Feral Bill
03-22-2013, 23:57
You can get to Harriman state Park, in NY, by rail from Edison. A section of the AT, and a couple of hundred miles of other trails await you there. In summer you can get by with minimal gear (see the endless discussions of gear here) and find out what you can do for yourself. Good luck.

prain4u
03-23-2013, 01:00
It is VERY unlikely that you could complete an unsupported thru hike in 2.5 months. Frankly, yours odds of shooting a hole-in-one while golfing --or making a half-court shot in basketball ON THE FIRST SHOT--are probably better than the likelihood of you completing a thru hike that fast.

I used to be a track and cross country runner. Running is a VERY different thing than backpacking or even speed hiking. Different muscles are being used--and being used in different ways. Putting in 12 hour days backpacking (especially at a 2.5 mph pace) puts a type of wear and tear on the body which is probably unlike anything that you have ever experienced while running. (Most "in shape" distance runners can complete a marathon in 2-4 hours. Although backpacking may be at a SLOWER pace than a typical marathon, a 12 hour hiking "workout" is still three times longer IN DURATION than a 4 hour marathon. And, you are proposing doing this almost daily for 2.5 months in all kinds of terrain and all kinds of weather conditions.

In addition to that 12 hour daily workout, you also have to prepare all of your own meals and obtain all of your own water each day. You must also set up and tear down your camp daily. (Even if you are just staying in a shelter, you still have to unpack and pack your stuff each day). Every few days you also have to get into town for things like resupply--and maybe laundry and showers. This time spent in town cuts into your hiking time on the trail.

So, you are talking about 12 hours of fast walking EACH DAY (with weight on your back). This is followed by having to complete a bunch of "household chores" each day AND you will essentially be outside 24/7--in all kinds of weather for 75 consecutive days.

I say, slow down the pace. Enjoy the hike--and get as far as you can comfortably get in 2.5 months.

jj2044
03-23-2013, 01:18
Why not just go Springer to harpers ferry this summer, than finish it up the next summer ?? Hiking the AT to me is more about the people you meet and place you get to see... and you're not going to be able to do either going 30 miles a day...slow down and enjoy the trip!

Bronk
03-23-2013, 03:43
You'd be very surprised how many people start the trail that have never hiked or backpacked before. Is what you are proposing possible? Absolutely. Others have done it before. But 80% of people who set out to thruhike fail...a surprising number within the first 30 miles or so. And they aren't trying to do it in 75 days, they're just trying to finish period.

ChuckBrown
03-23-2013, 04:23
Let's go fishing....reeling all you guys in.lol. A fast hike, asking for donations, and just joined recently. Sounds like this guy should be in the new Hobbit movie, starring as a Troll. Just my opinion.

Slo-go'en
03-23-2013, 11:45
Let's go fishing....reeling all you guys in.lol. A fast hike, asking for donations, and just joined recently. Sounds like this guy should be in the new Hobbit movie, starring as a Troll. Just my opinion.

No, just another kid who didn't have a clue of what it would really take to pull off his plan. We've either run him off and won't be heard of again, or is thinking about plan B.

So, Piragua, are you still with us or what? How is central Jersey these days anyway? I grew up not far from Edison in S. Plainfield myself.

rocketsocks
03-23-2013, 17:43
No, just another kid who didn't have a clue of what it would really take to pull off his plan. We've either run him off and won't be heard of again, or is thinking about plan B.

So, Piragua, are you still with us or what? How is central Jersey these days anyway? I grew up not far from Edison in S. Plainfield myself.Yep, sent em a PM yesturday...pretty sure it's a troll, cause if they ran like they said, they know the answer to my queries.....no reply...NEXT!

SCRUB HIKER
03-23-2013, 18:52
Here's the deal with reading people like Andrew Skurka, which I've only done after trying to thru-hike. They make hiking long distances each day sound perfectly rational, the type of thing where if you're physically in shape, there's almost no logical alternative. Get up early, walk til nightfall, keep your breaks short and few and far between, and before you know it you're done. It sounds so simple and rational. What else are you supposed to do out there in the woods?

But it's an insane amount of mental effort. I'm sure that you, as an 18-year-old XC guy, are physically capable of averaging 29 miles per day with proper training. Almost anyone is physically capable of that with enough preparation--humans are evolutionarily built for it. But the self-discipline required to get up early every single day, to keep every single break under half an hour, to pass up countless friendships because you're outpacing everyone else, to resist the pleasures of town, to look at every single beautiful viewpoint warily because you're not sure if you should be stopping at it or pushing on (all the trials that Andrew Skurka doesn't mention when he's prattling on about Ultimate Hikers)--that type of mental effort is unfathomable to 99% of us. You could be in the other 1%, and you won't know it until you try. I'm not trying to discourage you, just to say that you should be prepared for it to be a cripplingly intense mental endeavor.

Mags
03-23-2013, 19:11
Can it be done? Sure. Without experience and having your backpacking dialed in? Probably not.

Not sure what your schedule may be, but if you are really, absolutely, positively committed to something with this pace, tackle something like the Long Trail or the Benton MacKaye Trail first.

If you can keep up that pace *AND* still enjoy backpacking by the end of these ~300 mile trails, then you have a shot at doing this type of pace for the AT.

If not? Well, 2.5 months is enough for a good chunk of hiking.

Shatnerz
03-23-2013, 21:53
I don't know what you're looking for with this thread. You already did the math. It is clearly physically possible. All it comes down to is yourself. Hell, with a little discipline I don't see why you couldn't do it faster. Hopefully all these downers just fuel your fire. The more difficult the task at hand, all the better. Best of luck.

Mags
03-23-2013, 22:38
Hopefully all these downers just fuel your fire. The more difficult the task at hand, all the better. Best of luck.

Why is giving realistic advice considered being a "downer"? :)

But, what do we know.. ;)

Lone Wolf
03-24-2013, 00:48
I don't know what you're looking for with this thread. You already did the math. It is clearly physically possible. All it comes down to is yourself. Hell, with a little discipline I don't see why you couldn't do it faster. Hopefully all these downers just fuel your fire. The more difficult the task at hand, all the better. Best of luck.

i'm a realist. this hike ain't gonna happen

prain4u
03-24-2013, 01:33
I don't know what you're looking for with this thread. You already did the math. It is clearly physically possible. All it comes down to is yourself. Hell, with a little discipline I don't see why you couldn't do it faster. Hopefully all these downers just fuel your fire. The more difficult the task at hand, all the better. Best of luck.

The fastest unsupported thru hike is 60.5 days--back in 1990--at a time when the AT was just tiny bit shorter than it is today. That individual had previously thru hiked the AT multiple times prior to that record setting attempt.

In the case which is now before us in this current thread, the Original Poster (and Shatnerz) are both suggesting that the OP can essentially hike the entire AT at a pace that is fairly close to the record pace---with the OP having no previous hiking experience and the OP having never been on the AT.

When WhiteBlaze posters say that the OP probably won't be able to accomplish such a feat---they are not "being downers". Rather, such people are merely being realists.

Feral Bill
03-24-2013, 01:42
[QUOTE=When WhiteBlaze posters say that the OP probably won't be able to accomplish such a feat---they are not "being downers". Rather, such people are merely being realists.[/QUOTE]

Same thing:rolleyes:

Lone Wolf
03-24-2013, 06:27
if and when this person attempts this "hike", he/she will fail. the only time i've been wrong was in the case of minnesotasmith

Steve Jennette
03-24-2013, 07:03
What is the down side of trying? You are young, in good shape, and whether you do it or not will not "define" you is what I would tell my son or daughter. Wanting to do it, and being convinced not to try, might indeed follow you around for a long time. Good luck!

Malto
03-24-2013, 08:11
Why not just go Springer to harpers ferry this summer, than finish it up the next summer ?? Hiking the AT to me is more about the people you meet and place you get to see... and you're not going to be able to do either going 30 miles a day...slow down and enjoy the trip!

I love when people declare that you have to slow down to enjoy trip. And while you say that hiking the AT is more about the people you meet and people you get to see, that is not everyone's motivation nor is "speed" and these items mutually exclusive. And are you basing your statement that "you aren't going to be able to do either going 30 mile days" on your own personal experience doing it? The biggest difference between a speed hike and more normal pace is the hours you spend hiking in a day.

As far as the OP's silence..... Hopefully he decided to attempt hiking NJ in 48 hours as test to answer his question for himself. Much more productive than taking a poll on the Internet.

rickb
03-24-2013, 08:49
What is the down side of trying?

That all depends on what your backup plan is when reality sets in.

Dogwood
03-24-2013, 12:48
I will not tell you it's impossible but probably unlikely as SO MANY OTHERS with 1000's and 1000's of EARNED trail miles. BIG BIG BIG difference pounding at a keyboard making plans and actually executing those plans. It's also a BIG BIG BIG difference between knowing what to do and DOING what you know to do! If you just read over that and casually dismissed it by thinking yeah, yeah, I know, that's a perfect example and probably should be telling you something about yourself and you accomplishing what you propose.

I'll tell you some other things IF you are still with me. While it can be GREAT learning things from accomplished very experienced people like Andrew Skurka you need to have an intimate understanding that YOU ARE NOT EXACTLY HIM. Take things into context about Andrew Skurka. He's a supremely conditioned accomplished runner/LONG LONG LONG distance hiker having EARNED over many years what he now possesses and currently accomplishes! I've also witnessed him hiking. IMHO, despite him saying that doing bigger MPD entails hiking longer hrs at a moderate/about average pace of 2.5 mph that's not ENTIRELY how he does HIS BIG MPD. IMHO, he hikes with a no nonsense ABOVE AVERAGE PACE and AND hikes LONG hours and does so as the result of finding what works BEST FOR HIM to accomplish these goals. He would probably be the first to tell you that where he now is is the result of EVOLVING, at least to some extent, over many years. Reality check. What's BEST FOR HIM or what he does accomplish may not be WHAT'S BEST FOR YOU or what you might accomplish! Just a little advice from someone who understands these things not from a textbook or website but by spending LONG hrs and hiking extensive miles on trail finding what's currently right for himself.

People like Scrub Hiker understand what I'm saying. Look at the first paragraph in #25 post.

Dogwood
03-24-2013, 13:02
Sorry, don't have any advice to offer other than to ask if you've ever read Becoming Odyssa by Jennifer Pharr Davis? If not, google her name. She has done what you are trying to do.

Good Luck! :)

While taking clues from those who have been successful at what you might SIMILARLY want to do can certainly be of assistance NO TWO PEOPLE ARE EXACTLY THE SAME and therefore not have the same impetus for achieving like things! IMHO, it's wise to have a FULL grasp of this before making comparisons to others. After seeing Jennifer's interview on the 700 Club I found out that her AT speed record accomplishment was defined by her as a very spiritual experience and that her faith in God assisted her in accomplishing this record. When examining her speed hiking record, might also be key to note that she had completed a previous AT thru-hike.

brian039
03-24-2013, 13:15
I would say it would be doable if you had hiked the AT before. Those who have done it before know what to expect. I think you can certainly complete a hike without experience, just not in that time frame.

fiddlehead
03-24-2013, 13:22
Let's go fishing....reeling all you guys in.lol. A fast hike, asking for donations, and just joined recently. Sounds like this guy should be in the new Hobbit movie, starring as a Troll. Just my opinion.
Yep.
Don't waste your time folks.
He ain't comin back.

10-K
03-24-2013, 13:29
They make hiking long distances each day sound perfectly rational, the type of thing where if you're physically in shape, there's almost no logical alternative. Get up early, walk til nightfall, keep your breaks short and few and far between, and before you know it you're done. It sounds so simple and rational. What else are you supposed to do out there in the woods?

This is probably the best description of my hiking ethos I've ever read on Whiteblaze.

Violent Green
03-24-2013, 18:56
Experience is your real limiting factor in this situation. Experience will teach you how to fuel your body for 30miles daily and how to take care of your feet each day. If either of these are off, you will fail. It really helps to have these dialed in for +20 miles per day, much less 30. If you can get those perfected plus have a light pack, you would be getting closer....

Ryan

BillyGr
03-24-2013, 19:28
If you are really planning to hike - as was noted above, there are areas easy to get to from where you are located (Harriman was mentioned - another would be via NYC and Metro North to the AT stop in NY). Why not start at one of those and head north?
That way, if you find it harder than you expect, you could slow down and still easily get to Maine in the time given (or even less), and if you did manage to make it fairly quickly, you could then figure a way back and head South from the same point. Or if it turned out to be really hard for you, you have several options along the trail to get back to NYC and home fairly easily.

Piragua
03-24-2013, 19:38
I've heard of her. She seems to have had a lot of experience hiking before setting off. I mean she was young, but its an almost irrelevant comparison with the miles he had put in before. And like one of the members posting later said, it was a spiritual journey for her. But I will look for advice from her. Thank you.

Dogwood
03-24-2013, 22:30
What is the down side of trying?... you are in good shape...Good luck!

Uhh, he re-aggravates the OVER USE INJURY he mentioned possibly making it and something else worse! He has a history of over doing things and possibly taking on TOO MUCH TOO SOON WITH A LACK OF PREPARATION AND FORETHOUGHT!!!!!!!Read his post! Now you are rah rah go for it cheerleading him towards possibly doing it again? Best thing you said in your post is Good Luck!

Dogwood
03-24-2013, 22:56
I guess he/she took his trail name from his travels in Puerto Rico or is floating along like a canoe without a rudder. He then joins three days ago, goes public with this idea, says he was a runner on an organized cross country sports team, and solicits advice from people whom he doesn't even know asking this question, "Can I hear some advice about knee injuries and pain? - Piragua", expecting intelligent informed answers. Red flagged! I will not waste my time further. You all do what you want. If I only had $1 every time this or something similar occurred here on WB I would be able to fund my next hike. Maybe some might think I'm a dick for saying this but be real! Snap out of it. Wake up.

Piragua
03-25-2013, 12:47
I've been a boy scout leader and backpacker my whole life. My son ran cross country and track. I've lead many scouts on day hikes, weekend hikes and week long section hikes...I'm also a runner. Running is not hiking. You use different muscles. For one thing you are moving your feet all day. The boys I have lead on section hikes (all in good shape, athletic) usually average 1 to 1.5 miles per hour on AT terrain.

I would first challenge you to find a trail near you, on level ground and try hiking 30 miles. Don't use a pack.(that would be almost impossible for you)...try it.
(no running allowed).

You think you will also find hiking "techniques" will be learned rather quickly. Hiking "techniques" are what keeps you warm, dry, and fed. They also keep you from getting lost. I've been camping/backpacking my whole life and I'm still learning new "techniques". There is more to it than you think. Everything from hanging a bear bag to fixing your blisters. Read the forums here, there are many things to master. Can you fix a stove? In the rain? In the dark??

I always encourage people to hike, but take some baby steps first. Next rainy night...sleep outside. Try some long day hikes. Part of the problem with inexperienced people is that they don't know their limits and they get into trouble.

so... TAKE A HIKE!!!

Now you say that running is nothing like hiking. Isn't there some truth in saying
that in replacement of long day hikes you can put in some short, high-intensity
runs? One of the later posters said that he's seen even marathoners that can't
handle long day hiking. I really don't know what to make of that. But as for
the use of different muscles used, I totally agree. I've long ago come to terms
with the difference between even trail and road running that will cripple a
road runner if they're not careful to adjust. What muscles and anatomical
development would you suggest on working though? I'm not too knowledgeable
about this since I only road-run.

Do you suppose that working out those specific "trail-muscles" or walking on tread-mills for long periods of time could be a substitute to long day hikes? I might not get the trail experience or the elevation gain/loss, but it seems the closest I can get to preparing around where I live.

As for the hiking techniques, yes, there's always room for improvment, but I don't need to have anything better than skills adequate enough to survive. Like you said, the forums should be of great help. Anyway, a few days, because of a steep learning curve, should be enough to get my bearings. I plan on going on the appalachian trail for a few days soon enough to get in some practice. In your experience, however, does altitude training make a differece? I've been told that walking a few thousand meters up is going to be much more difficult, but the appalchian mountains are ,except for one mountain, never more than 2000m high.

I appreciate that you're able to accept that while it's unrealistic, it's possible with the effort. I think more people could adopt your non-extremist tone between encouraging all unrealistic ventures and disparaging all unusual efforts. You seem very knowledgeable and I'd like to hear more from you.

Piragua
03-25-2013, 13:04
I believe you need to be able to do 150% of your desired average and be able to walk the next day.


Where did you find this statistic? It sounds real, but I'd like a source if you have one so I can find out more.

The PCT, I believe is almost coninuously higher in elevation that the applachian, which makes it more difficult.

By all means, you're right though, that experience is the key factor. I'm planning to hike for a few days in a row. I do, however, believe that a good amount of motivation and not so many hours of experience are necessary. The learning curve is steep afterall, and after a while you're spending your time perfecting your techniques, not learning them. Thank you for your help.

Rasty
03-25-2013, 13:09
Where did you find this statistic? It sounds real, but I'd like a source if you have one so I can find out more.

The PCT, I believe is almost coninuously higher in elevation that the applachian, which makes it more difficult.

By all means, you're right though, that experience is the key factor. I'm planning to hike for a few days in a row. I do, however, believe that a good amount of motivation and not so many hours of experience are necessary. The learning curve is steep afterall, and after a while you're spending your time perfecting your techniques, not learning them. Thank you for your help.

Why would continuous higher elevation be more difficult? Logic tells you that going up and down will be more difficult then staying up higher.

Piragua
03-25-2013, 13:18
You can get to Harriman state Park, in NY, by rail from Edison. A section of the AT, and a couple of hundred miles of other trails await you there. In summer you can get by with minimal gear (see the endless discussions of gear here) and find out what you can do for yourself. Good luck.

Great advice. I was actually wondering how to get to the appalachian trail without the use of car.

Piragua
03-25-2013, 13:19
Why would continuous higher elevation be more difficult? Logic tells you that going up and down will be more difficult then staying up higher.

I meant that the PCT was on average much higher than the AT and it had greater elevation gains/losses.Isn't that true?

Rasty
03-25-2013, 13:29
I meant that the PCT was on average much higher than the AT and it had greater elevation gains/losses.Isn't that true?

The PCT is a horse trail for the most part. It's longer, higher but not harder from my understanding.

jersey joe
03-25-2013, 13:44
Before I tell you why I don't think you have a chance let me start by saying that I did exactly what you are proposing. Here's my per hike story:
1) I had been backpacking for years prior and LOVE the outdoors.
2) I trained specifically for the task for a year and a half.
3) I had hiked over 57 miles in a day prior to leaving, and that was with over 15000' elevation gain. I believe you need to be able to do 150% of your desired average and be able to walk the next day.
4) I got my base weight down to 8 lb. And I knew my gear, having used it exactly in the same high mile scenario as I was proposing. I could setup camp in under 15 minutes and tear down in the same.
5) one goal of my training was to make sure that none of my five hardest days of hiking occurred on my trip.
6) I completely understood how to fuel, hydrate and what my electrolyte limitations were.
7) I had my resupplies completely dialed in. I spent very little time in town.
8) I LOVE walking. There is nothing more relaxing for me.
9) I hiked thousands of miles solo. I knew I could spend time with myself.
10) I trained in all conditions I expected to hit of my hike. Rain, snow, darkness, desert, high elevation etc.
11) I had the money to buy my way into efficiency. I was able to anticipate gear failures and have items like new shoes ready before they were needed.

Some good advice here...I definitely agree with having your resupply dialed in. You can waste a lot of time and carry a lot of unnecessary weight if you don't get your resupply strategy worked out properly.

prain4u
03-25-2013, 14:34
Just a bit of clarification: For me, the issue is not whether the OP would be able to complete a thru hike. (The OPs chances of completion are about as good as anyone else who is a newbie). The big issue is the ability of ANY newbie to complete a thru hike in 75 days (or less). The short duration of the proposed thru hike is the part which borders on being a near impossibility.

Snowleopard
03-25-2013, 15:04
If you try to start out with 30 miles/day without specific training for hiking with a backpack, you'll likely injure yourself quickly. Your baseline physical conditioning is very high because of your running but you still have more to do:
*Do long walks with a backpack, gradually increasing distance and weight.
*Try to find hills to walk in, even if it's walking up and down a short hill or walking stairs (look at google maps terrain feature that shows elevation, there are hills near you).
*As someone said above, you need to dial in your equipment and camping skills so you are efficient at setting up and breaking camp, making meals, treating water, etc. If necessary you can do this by putting up your tent/tarp and cooking meals in your back yard.
*You need to learn how to manage your clothing layers in different weather; this might be easier running where you're always going at high effort, than hiking where you're going up hill and down and stopping for food and rest.
*You need to be sure that your shoes don't give you blisters hiking on uneven, rocky footing in hills; maybe your current running shoes will work or maybe not.
*Getting your pack weight as low as reasonable will help because the work of hiking will then be more like the running you do now. BUT, it takes experience to safely get by with an ultralight pack weight.

Since you're young and in good condition already, getting in condition for hiking will not take long. My guess is that if you started the AT NOBO and took it easy for several hundred miles you could then do long mile days regularly if you still want to.

Piragua
03-25-2013, 15:10
I will not tell you it's impossible but probably unlikely as SO MANY OTHERS with 1000's and 1000's of EARNED trail miles. BIG BIG BIG difference pounding at a keyboard making plans and actually executing those plans. It's also a BIG BIG BIG difference between knowing what to do and DOING what you know to do! If you just read over that and casually dismissed it by thinking yeah, yeah, I know, that's a perfect example and probably should be telling you something about yourself and you accomplishing what you propose.

I'll tell you some other things IF you are still with me. While it can be GREAT learning things from accomplished very experienced people like Andrew Skurka you need to have an intimate understanding that YOU ARE NOT EXACTLY HIM. Take things into context about Andrew Skurka. He's a supremely conditioned accomplished runner/LONG LONG LONG distance hiker having EARNED over many years what he now possesses and currently accomplishes! I've also witnessed him hiking. IMHO, despite him saying that doing bigger MPD entails hiking longer hrs at a moderate/about average pace of 2.5 mph that's not ENTIRELY how he does HIS BIG MPD. IMHO, he hikes with a no nonsense ABOVE AVERAGE PACE and AND hikes LONG hours and does so as the result of finding what works BEST FOR HIM to accomplish these goals. He would probably be the first to tell you that where he now is is the result of EVOLVING, at least to some extent, over many years. Reality check. What's BEST FOR HIM or what he does accomplish may not be WHAT'S BEST FOR YOU or what you might accomplish! Just a little advice from someone who understands these things not from a textbook or website but by spending LONG hrs and hiking extensive miles on trail finding what's currently right for himself.

People like Scrub Hiker understand what I'm saying. Look at the first paragraph in #25 post.

I only took that quote as an example to show that it's not impossible to walk such a long distance in such a short time without walking incredibly quickly. I would never try to compare myself to Andy Skurka at the experience level he is at now. His first backpacking trip, coincidentally, happened to be the appalachian trail I believe, where he took off without consulting anyone for advice, messing up from the start by carrying over 30 pounds and then managing 23 miles a day. And this was in his third year of college, also doing crosscountry. So in terms of that past Andrew, I can make some comparison. Plus, he never trained specifically for the task, which is a leg up that I have in a similar situation.

booney_1
03-25-2013, 15:23
Now you say that running is nothing like hiking. Isn't there some truth in saying
that in replacement of long day hikes you can put in some short, high-intensity
runs? One of the later posters said that he's seen even marathoners that can't
handle long day hiking. I really don't know what to make of that. But as for
the use of different muscles used, I totally agree. I've long ago come to terms
with the difference between even trail and road running that will cripple a
road runner if they're not careful to adjust. What muscles and anatomical
development would you suggest on working though? I'm not too knowledgeable
about this since I only road-run.

Do you suppose that working out those specific "trail-muscles" or walking on tread-mills for long periods of time could be a substitute to long day hikes? I might not get the trail experience or the elevation gain/loss, but it seems the closest I can get to preparing around where I live.

As for the hiking techniques, yes, there's always room for improvment, but I don't need to have anything better than skills adequate enough to survive. Like you said, the forums should be of great help. Anyway, a few days, because of a steep learning curve, should be enough to get my bearings. I plan on going on the appalachian trail for a few days soon enough to get in some practice. In your experience, however, does altitude training make a differece? I've been told that walking a few thousand meters up is going to be much more difficult, but the appalchian mountains are ,except for one mountain, never more than 2000m high.

I appreciate that you're able to accept that while it's unrealistic, it's possible with the effort. I think more people could adopt your non-extremist tone between encouraging all unrealistic ventures and disparaging all unusual efforts. You seem very knowledgeable and I'd like to hear more from you.


Being in running shape is certainly better than moving from a couch to hiking. But I'm explaining to you what I've experienced myself and what I've seen from other kids your age. I am not eloquent enough to explain to you to difference beyond what has been said by myself and others on this thread. I challenge you...if trails are too far away. Get up early this Saturday and Sunday. Ask Mom or Dad to drive you 30 miles away and walk back. Without some experience hiking you have no idea what a 10, 20 or 30 mile hike is like. 30 miles is a long way to hike without a pack in good weather on level ground. The older boy scouts who we've taken on section hikes on the AT usually do 10 miles a day. Sometimes that is a challenge. Climbing 2000 feet up in the heat with a pack is HARD. We could have hiked a little longer day, but believe me, 30 miles on the AT would have been almost impossible with their level of fitness. These kids I'm talking about have been your age and athletes. I would encourage you to go do a long hike, but you have no context for speed or distance. When you start you will be hiking about 1.5 mph. So plan accordingly.

Hiking "techniques" are about more than survival. Most of the AT is hardly deep wilderness, there are many road crossings, and IF you can use a map you can "rescue" yourself fairly safely. (although in fog,dark, snow it's easy to get lost) Hiking techniques are about comfort. If you are wet, and all your gear is wet, and your dinner is burnt, and your feet have 3 inch blisters, you may wish you knew more about hiking techniques. I'm not saying this to be discouraging. But anyone who has taken inexperienced backpackers out has seen them climb a steep learning curve.

So my final words of wisdom....get a little experience...everybody on this site is telling you something you should listen to. Go on 20 mile hike this weekend. How long does it take? Could you have carried a 20 pound pack? Could you do it up and down mountains...

Piragua
03-25-2013, 15:28
Uhh, he re-aggravates the OVER USE INJURY he mentioned possibly making it and something else worse! He has a history of over doing things and possibly taking on TOO MUCH TOO SOON WITH A LACK OF PREPARATION AND FORETHOUGHT!!!!!!!Read his post! Now you are rah rah go for it cheerleading him towards possibly doing it again? Best thing you said in your post is Good Luck!


I guess he/she took his trail name from his travels in Puerto Rico or is floating along like a canoe without a rudder. He then joins three days ago, goes public with this idea, says he was a runner on an organized cross country sports team, and solicits advice from people whom he doesn't even know asking this question, "Can I hear some advice about knee injuries and pain? - Piragua", expecting intelligent informed answers. Red flagged! I will not waste my time further. You all do what you want. If I only had $1 every time this or something similar occurred here on WB I would be able to fund my next hike. Maybe some might think I'm a dick for saying this but be real! Snap out of it. Wake up.

Lack of preparation is right. And honeslty, the over use injury is my greatest fear. But that can be overcome. I hope I wasn't wrong though to assume that the best place to look for advice was on the largest appalachian trail forum on the internet.

While the blindly encouraging comments may be harmful in the end, dismissing the case of any new-comer with ambitions isn't attracting anyone to be part of the AT community. Instead of just labeling my attempt as stupid, maybe you can give some advice. I'm not saying I am (certainly not at this point) but what if I happened to be able to rise to the occasion and acquire the mental and phyiscal fortitude and the application of trail knowledge necessary? I'd much rather hear useful critisim than a defeating rant.

Feral Bill
03-25-2013, 15:43
Lack of preparation is right. And honeslty, the over use injury is my greatest fear. But that can be overcome. I hope I wasn't wrong though to assume that the best place to look for advice was on the largest appalachian trail forum on the internet.

While the blindly encouraging comments may be harmful in the end, dismissing the case of any new-comer with ambitions isn't attracting anyone to be part of the AT community. Instead of just labeling my attempt as stupid, maybe you can give some advice. I'm not saying I am (certainly not at this point) but what if I happened to be able to rise to the occasion and acquire the mental and phyiscal fortitude and the application of trail knowledge necessary? I'd much rather hear useful critisim than a defeating rant.
The useful advice you have received includes: Get much more experience and get into incredibly good shape. You have public transportation to plenty of good backpacking. Get out there and do some serious miles.

Lone Wolf
03-25-2013, 15:45
While the blindly encouraging comments may be harmful in the end, dismissing the case of any new-comer with ambitions isn't attracting anyone to be part of the AT community. Instead of just labeling my attempt as stupid, maybe you can give some advice. I'm not saying I am (certainly not at this point) but what if I happened to be able to rise to the occasion and acquire the mental and phyiscal fortitude and the application of trail knowledge necessary? I'd much rather hear useful critisim than a defeating rant.a serious attemptor wouldn't be on here lookin' for advice

rocketsocks
03-25-2013, 15:47
Piragua, nobody here wants you to fail, but are these the questions you've really come to ask, what are your odds, you already know the answers to that one. Again, go for it dude!

There some real good hiking right in our back yard

Sourland Mt. Preserve, Montgomery

Chimney rock, Bridgewater

either one of these places would be and excellent proving ground for an AT attempt as they have elevation gain and swamps, rocky and rooted foot paths...check em out!206862068720688

Kookork
03-25-2013, 15:57
a serious attemptor wouldn't be on here lookin' for advice

Not necessarily.

Lone Wolf
03-25-2013, 15:59
Not necessarily.

okay. enlighten me. how many speed hikes have you been involved in?

Kookork
03-25-2013, 16:07
Just a bit of clarification: For me, the issue is not whether the OP would be able to complete a thru hike. (The OPs chances of completion are about as good as anyone else who is a newbie). The big issue is the ability of ANY newbie to complete a thru hike in 75 days (or less). The short duration of the proposed thru hike is the part which borders on being a near impossibility.

Amen to this.

Can it be done? Sure

Has it been done by others before? Yes

Has there been a healthy young newbie that has done it before? I do not know any.

Is it possible you could be the first who achieves it ? Possible

Do you really know the final result right now? I don't think so.

Who knows about your real chance of success? How should we know when you don't .

1azarus
03-25-2013, 17:17
Before I tell you why I don't think you have a chance let me start by saying that I did exactly what you are proposing. Here's my per hike story:
1) I had been backpacking for years prior and LOVE the outdoors.
2) I trained specifically for the task for a year and a half.
3) I had hiked over 57 miles in a day prior to leaving, and that was with over 15000' elevation gain. I believe you need to be able to do 150% of your desired average and be able to walk the next day.
4) I got my base weight down to 8 lb. And I knew my gear, having used it exactly in the same high mile scenario as I was proposing. I could setup camp in under 15 minutes and tear down in the same.
5) one goal of my training was to make sure that none of my five hardest days of hiking occurred on my trip.
6) I completely understood how to fuel, hydrate and what my electrolyte limitations were.
7) I had my resupplies completely dialed in. I spent very little time in town.
8) I LOVE walking. There is nothing more relaxing for me.
9) I hiked thousands of miles solo. I knew I could spend time with myself.
10) I trained in all conditions I expected to hit of my hike. Rain, snow, darkness, desert, high elevation etc.
11) I had the money to buy my way into efficiency. I was able to anticipate gear failures and have items like new shoes ready before they were needed.

These are just off the top of my head. Are you ready? I suspect you have no idea because you don't have the experience to know. Here is a link to my journal, it was written for folks looking to do what you are contemplating.
http://postholer.com/journal/viewJournal.php?sid=fa46f461768319c29d87a4ae2e4cd0 f3&entry_id=20018

if you want the cliff notes read this:
http://postholer.com/journal/viewJournal.php?sid=fa46f461768319c29d87a4ae2e4cd0 f3&entry_id=27590

by no means am I trying to discourage you. I just laugh when I see "skurka said that its just 12 hours at 2.5mph". Go out and do it once and see if you even like it. When your done just remember, on your hike you need to go it the next day and the next day and...... Go for it, the average thru hiker only has a 1:5 chance of finishing a thruhike. The worst that can happen is you spend a week in the woods and have a humbling experience. Good luck.

a journal worth the reading. thanks!!!

Malto
03-25-2013, 17:22
Where did you find this statistic? It sounds real, but I'd like a source if you have one so I can find out more.

The PCT, I believe is almost coninuously higher in elevation that the applachian, which makes it more difficult.

By all means, you're right though, that experience is the key factor. I'm planning to hike for a few days in a row. I do, however, believe that a good amount of motivation and not so many hours of experience are necessary. The learning curve is steep afterall, and after a while you're spending your time perfecting your techniques, not learning them. Thank you for your help.


I made up the 150% number but I believe it is accurate. Here's why. If you look at most marathon training plans they have you doing a 20 mile run as your longest training run. The theory being that you push yourself on race day beyond what you do in training. This is completely the wrong approach for a thru hike where you have day after day abuse. To prepare for this a single day training hike has to be significantly longer than you have to do day to day on a thru. Most hikers get around this by ramping up their mileage. For example they may want to do 15 mpd average and be able to do a 15 on a day hike. But most will ramp up to that over time and start at about 2/3rds max distance. This kind of learning is what you get when you spend significant time on the training and not try to jam it into three months.

As far as the PCt being harder, it isn't any harder or easier than the AT IMHO. I have been able to do high mile days on both trails with equal effort. I believe there are more differences year to year on trail difficulty than there is trail to trail.

Donde
03-25-2013, 18:38
What I know can be done, and is realistic, is to go have a great hike for 2.5 months, don't know how far you'd get, but I bet you would have a good time.

Malto
03-25-2013, 19:09
Lack of preparation is right. And honeslty, the over use injury is my greatest fear. But that can be overcome. I hope I wasn't wrong though to assume that the best place to look for advice was on the largest appalachian trail forum on the internet.

While the blindly encouraging comments may be harmful in the end, dismissing the case of any new-comer with ambitions isn't attracting anyone to be part of the AT community. Instead of just labeling my attempt as stupid, maybe you can give some advice. I'm not saying I am (certainly not at this point) but what if I happened to be able to rise to the occasion and acquire the mental and phyiscal fortitude and the application of trail knowledge necessary? I'd much rather hear useful critisim than a defeating rant.

Lets be completely honest with this comment...." I hope I wasn't wrong though to assume that the best place to look for advice was on the largest appalachian trail forum on the internet."

I don't think you can appreciate the fact that there are only a few people on this site that can AND want to do the mileage you're suggesting for an entire hike. Much of what you're hearing is the barriers that others have to being able to accomplish this task or what they heard. Averaging 30mpd on any of the long trails is putting yourself in the top 1/10 of 1% as far as time. To give you some perspective on who some of these folks are. Here's a couple of samples.

Swami - hiked all three trails in a calendar year, finished AT in Winter in 73 days. 10,000+ miles last year alone. Super experienced and an absolute love of the outdoors. http://www.thehikinglife.com/journal/tag/swami/

scott Williamson - hiked the PCT 13 times, partial hikes a couple more, I think he set the PCT speed record 3 times. This link is Krudmeister's journal from an earlier record hike. They averaged over 40mpd. Before you get the wrong impression, let me assure you that this is one of the most disciplined individuals I have ever met.
http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=275700

Squeaky - another calendar year triple crowner. haven't met him but known to be an incredibly strong hiker.
http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=89893

Before you read these and say no problem, bink and krudmeister knock off 40s consistently, so can I..... These are world class hikers that have years of experience doing fast hikes. Normally I am very supportive of folks doing fast hikes but that is when they have put in the time to earn the success. Three months is not enough time to get into the top 1/10 of 1% hiking shape. It's not the answer you want to hear but I would suggest if you are serious about doing this to take a year and get ready.

One final thought, nobody that I know of that has successful done a hike at the pace you're talking ever came on this other sites to ask if it could be done. They prepared and did it. In a nutshell, if you have to ask the question then you probably know the answer. So no, this is not the place to ask this question, you ask it to yourself as you are doing the proper training.

rickb
03-25-2013, 19:11
What I know can be done, and is realistic, is to go have a great hike for 2.5 months, don't know how far you'd get, but I bet you would have a good time.

More likely situation is that an individual posting something like this (generically speaking, not directed at a single individual) discovers the task is not nearly as mental as it is physical. They then struggle with reconciling their public plans with their situation and have an "injury" early on which they convince themselves was the root cause of their failure. The next step is to announce they will be back (in the same way as leone convicted in court announces they will appeal) only to never be heard from again. They then move on to some other challenge and have a great life-- but without the joy that comes from years of physical challenges and glorious moments along it he trail and surrounded by nature.

joshgarrison
03-25-2013, 20:35
Piragua,i am looking to do similar mileage as you. if you wanna go on a little 30-40 mile jaunt with weekend in the NY area let me know.

Mags
03-25-2013, 21:06
I'll repeat it again: Attempt the Long Trail at your 30 MPD pace. If you can do this trail in 9 days *AND* still enjoy backpacking after that pace, then you might have a shot.

The Long Trail is a nice trail in its own right (esp the northern sections), has some tough terrain (ditto) and is a great training hike for the AT.

What's less then two weeks of your time if you are planning 2.5 months? :)

As for the "the best place to look for advice"... You found advice. Good advice from experienced people.

Now, if you ignore it.... ;)

WILLIAM HAYES
03-25-2013, 21:11
I was 2 under thru six at the national one year but finished with an 81-anything may be possible but my question is why do it... its the journey not the destination

prain4u
03-25-2013, 22:10
While the blindly encouraging comments may be harmful in the end, dismissing the case of any new-comer with ambitions isn't attracting anyone to be part of the AT community. Instead of just labeling my attempt as stupid, maybe you can give some advice. I'm not saying I am (certainly not at this point) but what if I happened to be able to rise to the occasion and acquire the mental and physical fortitude and the application of trail knowledge necessary? I'd much rather hear useful critisim than a defeating rant.


People HAVE been giving you PLENTY of advice. You apparently don't like the advice that you have been given. Here are some of the pieces of advice that you have been given (and this partial list is JUST from the first page of this multi -page thread)

--"read Becoming Odyssa by Jennifer Pharr Davis........google her name. She has done what you are trying to do".

--"pick a realistic goal, and go for that"

--"go out and get some of that training and experiance by going on a long hike. Start out with the only goal of surviving a month or two on the trail. Once you do that, you will know if you can or even want to try and do what is know as a speed hike".

--"Expereince means a LOT! Get out there now and start hiking".

--"I would first challenge you to find a trail near you, on level ground and try hiking 30 miles. Don't use a pack.(that would be almost impossible for you)...try it".

--Hiking "techniques" are what keeps you warm, dry, and fed. They also keep you from getting lost. I've been camping/backpacking my whole life and I'm still learning new "techniques". There is more to it than you think. Everything from hanging a bear bag to fixing your blisters. Read the forums here, there are many things to master. Can you fix a stove? In the rain? In the dark??"

--"take some baby steps first. Next rainy night...sleep outside. Try some long day hikes".

--"by no means am I trying to discourage you. I just laugh when I see "skurka said that its just 12 hours at 2.5mph". Go out and do it once and see if you even like it. When your done just remember, on your hike you need to go it the next day and the next day and......"


--Even the speed demon hikers that eventually do begin to do 25-30 mile days consistently all had to start off doing lower mileage to get used to the unique rigors of the trail.

--slow down, relax and just enjoy the hike.

--Take the time to smell the roses. It's a hiking adventure that most people won't get to do twice in their lifetime.

--You can get to Harriman state Park, in NY, by rail from Edison. A section of the AT, and a couple of hundred miles of other trails await you there. In summer you can get by with minimal gear (see the endless discussions of gear here) and find out what you can do for yourself.


-- slow down the pace. Enjoy the hike--and get as far as you can comfortably get in 2.5 months

--Why not just go Springer to harpers ferry this summer, than finish it up the next summer ?? Hiking the AT to me is more about the people you meet and place you get to see... and you're not going to be able to do either going 30 miles a day...slow down and enjoy the trip!

--

Slo-go'en
03-25-2013, 22:23
I belive the OPs mind set is being influenced by the "extrem endorance" fad which seems to becoming popular. Push yourself until something breaks.

Piragua
03-25-2013, 22:28
People HAVE been giving you PLENTY of advice. You apparently don't like the advice that you have been given.



My apologies if I gave the wrong impression. I wasn't adressing everyone when I made that statement. Cummulatively, the comments provided a lot of insight. I looked through them and considered them all. I was only refering to Dogwood when he seemed to be attacking the "non-realists", since he dismissed any possibility of doing the hike. By no means was that a comment pointed to anyone else.

Alligator
03-25-2013, 23:19
Maybe if you were an Eagle you could do it;).

I've been following this thread with interest. You broke it down earlier into two pieces. You have to learn how to backpack and you have to learn how to hike. If you can't backpack efficiently you won't have time to get the miles in. You can learn a bit of that as you go, but if you are are not mediocre at it to start with you could blow your attempt rather quickly. If you are not eating, walking, and sleeping well, you can forget about 30 miles a day.

I was a track guy from your area too. It's so flat where you are at. Mt. Desert Island is nice but the hiking is not challenging at all. I don't know what the average daily elevation change might be for a random 30 mile hike on the AT, but you are going to face several climbs a day over 500+ ft I would think for sure. Maybe like 5-8. A couple might be 1000+ (like 1500 or 2000 or even higher). I generally only hike 15-20 miles in the warmest months and I don't keep track of the number of climbs so that's just a ballpark estimate. Being from Jersey, and given your age, you are probably not familiar with that type of hiking. I know the first trip I went on, on the Jersey section of the trail, there were two climbs that we all thought were real gut busters. Fast forward many years and when I passed them the second time they were barely noticeable. If you are planning on training by running, read up on ultra-marathon training strategies. (I think you will be running too fast.) Get some real hill work in. You probably want to pick up the train in Metropark or Metuchen. There's a train stop on the AT you can reach besides going to Harriman (Transfer from Penn Sta over to Grand Central). There are also many bus routes out of Port Authority that will get you to the trail as well.

Are you graduating HS and then going to college?

Dogwood
03-26-2013, 04:23
Piragua, know this. Some of what I said was intentionally designed to sift out the chaff from the wheat. I wanted to know if you were for real. It was a test to assess your character. Since you are new here and might not know this, every week or so some yahoo naive wannabe announces these grand hiking ideas when in my honest, but admittedly judgmental and blunt opinion, doesn't know shart. It's equivalent to saying you are going to score a home run when you don't first know what a baseball bat is or where first base is located. Can someone like this hit a homer and make it back to home plate at their first up at bat? sure. LIKELY? NO!....Don't like my opinions I really don't give a shart.

You were gaining some additional pts with me and making me rethink some of my thoughts of you and you attaining your goal. I see you are willing to heed SOME solid advice by the gained insight in your rebuttal posts. But, I also see you are willing to only heed so much solid advice. I'm not here to argue with you or feel the need to prove my opinions. I'm just offering opinions that I think I have the right to offer because you did solicit opinions in a public forum. If you disagree with my opinions I'm OK with that. BUT, you have CHOSEN to misinterpret and misrepresent my clear opinions, perhaps, because you didn't like what I had to say. Please, if you must disagree with me, which is totally acceptable, at least CORRECTLY represent what I said!


.... I wasn't adressing everyone when I made that statement. Cummulatively, the comments provided a lot of insight. I looked through them and considered them all. I was only refering to Dogwood when he seemed to be attacking the "non-realists", since he dismissed any possibility of doing the hike. By no means was that a comment pointed to anyone else.

NEVER said that there was no possibility of doing the hike you propose or how you propose to do it!!! NEVER attacked the "non-realists!!! Here's what I said and I quote myself, "I *WILL NOT TELL YOU IT'S IMPOSSIBLE* but *PROBABLY UNLIKELY* as SO MANY OTHERS with 1000's and 1000's of EARNED trail miles(are also saying)."

If you are healed up, think you have the goods to pull it off, AND YOU BELIEVE YOU WILL consistently hike 30 MPD take it from there. You don't require my or anyone else's pre approval to try, and possibly accomplish, YOUR HIKE. HIKE YOUR OWN HIKE. What are you expecting a pat on the back from everyone? Not going to happen when soliciting opinions from the masses.

Now, if you want constructive ideas on HOW ONE MIGHT PULL OFF an avg of 30 MPD GIVEN what you said about yourself and other factors you are considering steer the thread that way to get those ideas. If that's really what you want, and I've somehow missed that in your posts, I apologize, but that seems a little different than where you are currently allowing the direction of YOUR THREAD to go. Feel me?

Know this too. Sometimes, moving forward requires going backwards to tear things down because the foundation isn't solid. Can't build a solid storm worthy house when the foundation is faulty even if the foundation looks pretty with a new coat of paint! See where I'm going? Feel me on that?

Think all that I've said is foo foo BS. Well that's OK too. Go do your thing. I wish you the best.

Uhhh, got to go to work in a few hrs.

Slo-go'en
03-26-2013, 11:10
The thing is, to pull off a fast hike doing consistant 30 mpd averages is only possible if absolutely NOTHING goes wrong. From Day 1. Anytime you slip behind that 30 mile day, you need to make up for it by going even farther the next day.

Physically you need to be in perfict condition to start doing big miles out of the gate and your camping skills need to be finely tuned so there isn't a wasted minute setting up or breaking down camp.

Just like any other sport, you need to train and train hard to get the skills needed to be in the top 1%. It might seem like "it's just walking", but there is a lot more to it than that. The few hikers who have pulled off sub 90 day hikes have had that experinace and conditioning. The ones who don't but try anyway don't last more then a few days to a week.

The bottom line is first go out and get the experinace you need, then talk about doing a 75 day thru hike.

Feral Bill
03-26-2013, 12:41
My apologies if I gave the wrong impression. I wasn't adressing everyone when I made that statement. Cummulatively, the comments provided a lot of insight. I looked through them and considered them all. I was only refering to Dogwood when he seemed to be attacking the "non-realists", since he dismissed any possibility of doing the hike. By no means was that a comment pointed to anyone else.
You might find it helpful to look ant peoples posts in other threads and then evaluate how seriously you want to take them. There are regulars here who I often disagree with, but who's opinions I always value, Others not so much.

Kookork
03-26-2013, 13:16
I might be wrong ( regular posters help please) but I can't remember any of the wannabe fast inexperienced hikers who posted here before their attempts come back here and talk about their success ( or most probably) the reason they did not succeed.

But there is always the first who can break this cycle. Who knows...

magic_game03
03-26-2013, 15:31
Piragua,

I've just skimmed the posts so maybe I missed this bit of info but are you trying a supported or un-supported thru-hike? It sounds to me like you are thinking about an unsupported hike. Maybe you should consider a supported hike.

Old Man Joe
03-26-2013, 15:51
Josh Garrison (see post 25 Mar @2035 in this thread) posted on Trail Journals that he's setting out to compete the AT in 60 days or less. Looks like it's going to be an interesting year. I will follow each enthusiastically. Good luck to both of them.

Damn, I love this stuff.

For what it's worth.

Dogwood
03-26-2013, 15:52
i belive the ops mind set is being influenced by the "extrem endorance" fad which seems to becoming popular. Push yourself until something breaks.

lol lol lol:)

rocketsocks
03-26-2013, 15:54
Yep, sent em a PM yesturday...pretty sure it's a troll, cause if they ran like they said, they know the answer to my queries.....no reply...NEXT!He's no TROLL...Piragua, wish you well if you decide to make a go at it...all the best dude!

canoe
03-26-2013, 16:48
Just one question for the OP. No need for a poll of anyone else's opinion. Do you see yourself as an average, above average, superior, or a top 1/2% hiker/camper. If you cant say that you are a top 1/2% hiker I say your effort is next impossible. But you have to answer that question for yourself.

Scuba
03-26-2013, 16:55
Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lone Wolf
03-26-2013, 17:11
Just one question for the OP. No need for a poll of anyone else's opinion. Do you see yourself as an average, above average, superior, or a top 1/2% hiker/camper. If you cant say that you are a top 1/2% hiker I say your effort is next impossible. But you have to answer that question for yourself.

he doesn't hike. 0 experience. 99.9% chance of failure

canoe
03-26-2013, 17:15
he doesn't hike. 0 experience. 99.9% chance of failure
yep........

Half Note
03-26-2013, 17:18
I've never understood questions like this. Only YOU know what you are capable of, not strangers on the internet.

canoe
03-26-2013, 17:22
I've never understood questions like this. Only YOU know what you are capable of, not strangers on the internet. IT is called lack of experiance

DavidNH
03-26-2013, 19:18
Piragua, You said in your opening post here that you are 18, have never hiked a day in your life, but expect to do some training and running and then hike 30 miles a day to finish the entire AT in 2.5 months. To answer your question, can you do it? I've gotta be honest here.. No chance in hell. Fuggedahbout it!

First off.. you'll be carrying some weight on your back.. that's already more challenging than running. Second.. you would be hiking up and down steep trails and mountains. Third, you'll be hiking in nice weather, yes, but also in cold windy rainy weather where you get soaked to the bone and everything squishes. All of this will wear you down. You won't have any fun and I'm willing to bet you a truck load of ice cream you wouldn't make it as far as Harper's Ferry, never mind into Maine.


Let's put this lunacy aside.. PLEASE! Try this.. do a shake down hike or two.. where you are backpacking for 2-5 days or so. Do it in rugged terrain. Get a feel for what it might be like before you commit. Secondly, consider doing a third of the trail or perhaps 1/2 the trail like Springer to Harpers Ferry. Hike perhaps just 20 miles a day. You might actually have some fun that way. Hiking is supposed to be fun. You are setting your self up for months of misery and that will take it's toll faster than you think.

You're a young kid.. you are probably physically strong enough. But you will get sick of constantly pushing yourself and it's a matter of time before you take some zero days some where. You will question whether it's worth it. Wonder why you are missing out on enjoying views, enjoying company at shelters, maybe you wished you went to a festival or some hiker feed.

When I thru hiked in 2006.. I ran across some young guys (thru hikers) in PA. They did a string of 3-4 30 mile days. Then they ended up staying at hostels (or some place in town) for 4-5 days.. which negates the high mileage of the previous days.

it's not a question of can you do 30 mile days. It's a question of whether you or anyone can keep that up day in day out week in week out.

There's no way you going from never having hiked at all, training for 3 months, then hiking 2200 miles in less than 3 months.

NOT GONNA Happen!!!

DavidNH

1Greywolf
03-26-2013, 19:35
Hi Piragua,

I am happy to learn that you are planning to thru-hike the AT and challenging yourself to do it in 2 1/2 months.
Knowing the trail, (having tru-hiked it in 2011) that's great and what a personal accomplishment that would be.
You got my attention and I am ready to give you feedback. Let's look at your assumptions and consequently your plans to accomplish it.

The accepted wisdom that if you understanding and know your past successes and failure you can predict and shape your future successes.
is a prudent and strong basis of how we make our decisions.
Question: In a track meet or cross county run has it lasted in a multi day, multi week or multi month run carrying up to 30(+/-) pounds on your back.
And gaining 3,000 plus feet of elevation? It is it has not. My suggestion is to rethink your assumptions. That doe not mean you can't do it.
It First step: change your mental approach. Think long terms. Find some one who has thru-hiked the AT
and spend some time with him/her. Listen. Second: you can't predict nor control the number of variables that come into play and affect a month(s) long hike.
The answer(s) you seek will be unanswerable until you are on top of Kahtadin.
Based on my 2011 thru-hike, your level of success is relative to how badly you wish to achieve your goal.
And "luck" the one variable we can't control. My advise, train by hiking with a full pack. Accept the fact that
after all is said and done you have a limited or no control over what will take place on the trail.
The weather is one of those variables. Lastly, focus your energy on how much fun you will have.




So among all the hardcore hiking enthusiasts on this site, I'd like to seek your opinions.

So I'm 18 and besides once at Mt. Desert Island in Maine, I've never hiked a day in my life (mostly due to living in an area of almost endless suburbs). But I do runcross country and track, which trains me physically and mentally to some extent. So my question is this: do I stand any chance of making the appalachian trail in 2.5 months, at 30 miles a day? Now I'm running on the assumptions that hiking training could be replaced by long-distance, fairly intense runs, and that hiking etiquette and techniques can be learned rather quickly. I was hoping that if I were able to comfortably log 8-10 miles consecutive days in jogging, I would be able to handle the appalachian trail.

I realize that most people who will set off on the AT won't make it, the majority failing because they can't handle the mental rigor. I think I can take care of the psychological challenges. I'm a thinker and just walking down the trail I wouldn't have any trouble occupying myself with something. I wanted to fundraise for charity on a "dollars per mile" basis that would keep me motivated by adding some responsibility to completeing the hike.

So here's some logistics. If I hike for approximately 12 hours a day at a pace of 2.5 mph or a pace of 24:00 per mile, I can cover 30 miles a day. It's like Andrew Askurka said, it's about how long you walk, not how fast. I have had previous over-use injuries from running before, and in fact I had to leave my cross country team because of it. But I never did prevention or strengthening exercises that I am willing to do now to get ready for the hike. Can I hear some advice about knee injuries and pain?

So does this plan sound capable of working given that I put in the work and I train for the next 3 months or do I just sound like a fool? I appreciate any advice and/or criticism.

1Greywolf
03-26-2013, 20:21
Hi Piragua,

I am happy to learn that you are planning to thru-hike the AT and challenging yourself to do it in 2 1/2 months.
Knowing the trail, (having tru-hiked it in 2011) that's great and what a personal accomplishment that would be.
You got my attention and I am ready to give you feedback. Let's look at your assumptions and consequently your plans to accomplish it.

The accepted wisdom is that if you understanding and know your past successes and failure you can predict and shape your future successes.
If you agree then I ask: Has a track meet or cross county run lasted in a multi day, multi week or multi month run? Did you carrying up to 30(+/-) pounds on your back?
Did you gain 3,000 plus feet of elevation? If not. I suggest to rethink your assumptions. That does not mean you can't accomplish your goal.
I suggest that you change your mental approach of this thru-hike. Think long terms. Find some one who has thru-hiked the AT
and spend some time with him/her. Listen. Second: you can't predict nor control the number of variables that are coming into play and affect your month(s) long hike.
The answer(s) you seek will be unanswered the day you are on top of Kahtadin.

Based on my 2011 thru-hike, your level of success is relative to how badly you wish to achieve your goal.
My advise, train by hiking with a full pack. Accept the fact that
after all is said and done you have a limited or no control over what will take place on the trail.
The weather is one of those variables. Lastly, focus your energy on how much fun you will have.
For me and other hikers I spoke to, the fun and the hikers you meet on the trail was one of the biggest motivators in staying on the trail and led to achieve my goal.
Kudos to RA Wizard

Please red the above revised post. Stay strong. Plan on having fun.

Kookork
03-26-2013, 21:22
he doesn't hike. 0 experience. 99.9% chance of failure

No way ,according to my data he has 99.8 chance of failure. Big Difference!!!!!:)

Kookork
03-26-2013, 21:40
So among all the hardcore hiking enthusiasts on this site, I'd like to seek your opinions.

So I'm 18 and besides once at Mt. Desert Island in Maine, I've never hiked a day in my life (mostly due to living in an area of almost endless suburbs). But I do runcross country and track, which trains me physically and mentally to some extent. So my question is this: do I stand any chance of making the appalachian trail in 2.5 months, at 30 miles a day? Now I'm running on the assumptions that hiking training could be replaced by long-distance, fairly intense runs, and that hiking etiquette and techniques can be learned rather quickly. I was hoping that if I were able to comfortably log 8-10 miles consecutive days in jogging, I would be able to handle the appalachian trail.

I realize that most people who will set off on the AT won't make it, the majority failing because they can't handle the mental rigor. I think I can take care of the psychological challenges. I'm a thinker and just walking down the trail I wouldn't have any trouble occupying myself with something. I wanted to fundraise for charity on a "dollars per mile" basis that would keep me motivated by adding some responsibility to completeing the hike.

So here's some logistics. If I hike for approximately 12 hours a day at a pace of 2.5 mph or a pace of 24:00 per mile, I can cover 30 miles a day. It's like Andrew Askurka said, it's about how long you walk, not how fast. I have had previous over-use injuries from running before, and in fact I had to leave my cross country team because of it. But I never did prevention or strengthening exercises that I am willing to do now to get ready for the hike. Can I hear some advice about knee injuries and pain?

So does this plan sound capable of working given that I put in the work and I train for the next 3 months or do I just sound like a fool? I appreciate any advice and/or criticism.


You said you appreciate any advice and/or criticism. You did not . You got upset about one of the posters. That is not what you said.

Anyway, forget about that part. I love to know why you want to finish the trail in 75 days. It is not a record to break. Are you in a rush? Is it too tempting to do it? just I love to know why? You did not mention the reason.

rickb
03-26-2013, 21:45
No way ,according to my data he has 99.8 chance of failure. Big Difference!!!!!:)

What are the odds of the original poster starting any long distance hike?

Kookork
03-26-2013, 21:56
What are the odds of the original poster starting any long distance hike?

Timewise,He will hike less than the time we all spent to advice him on WB. the odds is something like 2 percent just because he is a runner and young. He may run out of the trail faster than his trail speed though.:D

Piragua
03-27-2013, 14:03
Maybe if you were an Eagle you could do it;).

I was a track guy from your area too. It's so flat where you are at. Mt. Desert Island is nice but the hiking is not challenging at all. I don't know what the average daily elevation change might be for a random 30 mile hike on the AT, but you are going to face several climbs a day over 500+ ft I would think for sure. Maybe like 5-8. A couple might be 1000+ (like 1500 or 2000 or even higher). I generally only hike 15-20 miles in the warmest months and I don't keep track of the number of climbs so that's just a ballpark estimate. Being from Jersey, and given your age, you are probably not familiar with that type of hiking. I know the first trip I went on, on the Jersey section of the trail, there were two climbs that we all thought were real gut busters. Fast forward many years and when I passed them the second time they were barely noticeable. If you are planning on training by running, read up on ultra-marathon training strategies. (I think you will be running too fast.) Get some real hill work in. You probably want to pick up the train in Metropark or Metuchen. There's a train stop on the AT you can reach besides going to Harriman (Transfer from Penn Sta over to Grand Central). There are also many bus routes out of Port Authority that will get you to the trail as well.


You're right about this part of Jersey being flat. There are only a few hills around that I could take advantage of, but I think most of my training would come from using a treadmill, where I could simulate the elevation change. As for taking some public transportation to the AT, I'm planning on doing that too. Thanks for the advice.

Piragua
03-27-2013, 14:04
Piragua,

I've just skimmed the posts so maybe I missed this bit of info but are you trying a supported or un-supported thru-hike? It sounds to me like you are thinking about an unsupported hike. Maybe you should consider a supported hike.

Clearly a supported hike.

Piragua
03-27-2013, 14:13
I've read all your comments and taken them into account. Although it may seem like I haven't appreciated some comments enough, I made use of them too to gauge what level of training and prepartion would be necessary. At this moment, I still plan on hiking the At, though whether it is only a part or a thru-hike remains to be seen. If I do plan on thru-hiking I will announce my attempt between mid-May and early June.

Anticipating later comments and reacting to previous ones, I do realize that training phyisically isn't everything. I'm one of those people who gets self-satisfaction out of hardwork. Walking 30 miles a day and seeing a few beautiful views each day is more than enough to make happy even if I happen to miss a bit of the trail culture.

rocketsocks
03-27-2013, 14:39
I've read all your comments and taken them into account. Although it may seem like I haven't appreciated some comments enough, I made use of them too to gauge what level of training and prepartion would be necessary. At this moment, I still plan on hiking the At, though whether it is only a part or a thru-hike remains to be seen. If I do plan on thru-hiking I will announce my attempt between mid-May and early June.

Anticipating later comments and reacting to previous ones, I do realize that training phyisically isn't everything. I'm one of those people who gets self-satisfaction out of hardwork. Walking 30 miles a day and seeing a few beautiful views each day is more than enough to make happy even if I happen to miss a bit of the trail culture.Cool, it's all good!

Dogwood
03-27-2013, 16:45
HEY, I know I've been blunt, pissy, and perhaps, even condescending(which was wrong, I apologize for doing that) but I wish you the best in achieving your goals.

Yeah, you are inexperienced as a backpacker, TOTALLY untested in consistent higher miles per day with LONG distance backpacking, and IMHO grossly naive about some things but you also display a lot of maturity and a willingness to SOME DEGREE to consider things that you weren't aware of. You DEFINITELY already have some things going for you to achieve a 30 MPD avg. I'm still not sure you are ready for that though; take that from someone who has and is capable of doing 30 MPDs back to back to back but RARELY CHOOSES TO. Even though I thrued the AT before and can do a few 30's in a row I would find it hard for myself to avg 30's over a 2.5 month period or wouldn't be happy even if I was able to pull it off. It would change WHY I thru-hike to something that becomes negative FOR ME. That's what I was hoping for you to grasp when I spoke about Skurka or Pharr Davis. THEIR motivations, why they hike long distances or do speedy hikes, plays into their ability to accomplish those goals. What motivates you to want to thru the AT in 2.5 months? average 30 miles per day? What you aren't aware, because they didn't say it, is that a couple of posters on this thread have done 30 mile days and gave you SOLID advice on how to proceed accomplishing it yourself which seems like you ignored despite you saying otherwise. What's most important is what you believe and are ready for though!

Don't reaggrevate any pre-existing injury if you attempt the 2.5 month thru while avg 30 MPD. I'll say it again, you got a shot at it. UNLIKELY THOUGH. Never said it was an impossibility FOR YOU! HOWEVER, you now know, the VAST MAJORITY, who do 30 MPD have worked up to it not done it out of the box as raw inexperienced untested backpackers. Don't be naive about this. Doing it consistently, to attain an AVERAGE of 30 a day, takes it to an even HIGHER level. Don't be naive about this either.

I REALLY like the suggestions of other posters who said try averaging 30 MPD on a shorter distance hike first. You'll gain new perspectives of what it will take to avg 30 MPD on LONG distance hikes. Doing this will do all sorts of potentially positive things for you too that I'll let you find out for yourself.

You are in Edison. Not hard taking public transportation from there to the AT to Delaware Water Gap, various places in NY(one poster already gave some ideas, Pawling NY, Vernon NJ, Harriman SP, etc). Do a shorter section hike first say with the goal of avg 25 MPD. Do another short hike avg your goal of 30 MPD. Do the shorter Long Trail in Vermont as Mags suggested(that's a nice trail, nice helpful people). Before dismissing that idea answer these questions for yourself - why am I in such a hurry?, can I just enjoy a 2200 miles AT thru-hike? should I be approaching long distance backpacking as a competition or a race against time as is the case with competitive organized cross country running? am I making things more complicated than they need to be? My goodness. FIRST, before starting ALL the planning and expending ALL the time, money, resources, etc that entails a supported 30 MPD avg 2200 mile thru-hike answer the question for yourself IF backpacking even appeals to you! What if you gather all this thru-hiking info and do all this thru-hike planning for a 2.5 month thru-hike and at the end of the first wk arrive at the opinion backpacking sucks? Did you start out as a cross country runner out of the womb? NO. You worked up to it.

Take my suggestion to focus your questions in the future in such a way that elicits more targeted answers(that support the attainment of your goal). You started that with one of your concerns with your knee and knee pain inquiry and then let yourself get side tracked. Try not to let your thread go off on tangents which quickly happened here. Assimilate one answer first before proceeding to your next question(lock it in); you can facilitate this by starting more than one thread with one or two more targeted questions at a time. When you are just learning something helps to chunk info(opinions) down into smaller bites.

Hope to see you on the trail HAPPILY averaging 30 MPD doing it without hurting yourself determining what is right FOR YOU. All my best DDubs.

Oh, you get self satisfaction out of hard work? Good. Like the outdoors? Good. Me too. Want a job on my next landscape installation project in NJ?;)

jeffmeh
03-27-2013, 16:51
You're right about this part of Jersey being flat. There are only a few hills around that I could take advantage of, but I think most of my training would come from using a treadmill, where I could simulate the elevation change. As for taking some public transportation to the AT, I'm planning on doing that too. Thanks for the advice.

A treadmill on an incline will provide some cardio and exercise some muscles, but it does not really simulate the uneven terrain and ups and downs of the trail.

Also, a "supported hike," means you have a team carrying food and supplies, cooking food, setting up and striking camp, etc. I don't believe that is what you have in mind.

Lone Wolf
03-27-2013, 16:56
Clearly a supported hike.
oh. then you have a chance at 75 days. all you gotta do is walk. let folks take care of the rest

10-K
03-27-2013, 18:25
Try doing a four month hike first to get experience.

That's challenging but in the overall scheme of things can be done by anyone in shape and with the right mindset.

After that reevaluate. The first time you will learn about resupply locations and where everything is logistically. That will make your second attempt faster.

This is called practice. Every sport has a period of practice before game day.

stranger
03-28-2013, 08:28
So among all the hardcore hiking enthusiasts on this site, I'd like to seek your opinions.

So I'm 18 and besides once at Mt. Desert Island in Maine, I've never hiked a day in my life (mostly due to living in an area of almost endless suburbs). But I do runcross country and track, which trains me physically and mentally to some extent. So my question is this: do I stand any chance of making the appalachian trail in 2.5 months, at 30 miles a day? Now I'm running on the assumptions that hiking training could be replaced by long-distance, fairly intense runs, and that hiking etiquette and techniques can be learned rather quickly. I was hoping that if I were able to comfortably log 8-10 miles consecutive days in jogging, I would be able to handle the appalachian trail.

I realize that most people who will set off on the AT won't make it, the majority failing because they can't handle the mental rigor. I think I can take care of the psychological challenges. I'm a thinker and just walking down the trail I wouldn't have any trouble occupying myself with something. I wanted to fundraise for charity on a "dollars per mile" basis that would keep me motivated by adding some responsibility to completeing the hike.

So here's some logistics. If I hike for approximately 12 hours a day at a pace of 2.5 mph or a pace of 24:00 per mile, I can cover 30 miles a day. It's like Andrew Askurka said, it's about how long you walk, not how fast. I have had previous over-use injuries from running before, and in fact I had to leave my cross country team because of it. But I never did prevention or strengthening exercises that I am willing to do now to get ready for the hike. Can I hear some advice about knee injuries and pain?

So does this plan sound capable of working given that I put in the work and I train for the next 3 months or do I just sound like a fool? I appreciate any advice and/or criticism.

Probably fairly unlikely, long distance hiking is different to anything else. Yes the mental part is tough, but at 30 miles per day, for your FIRST hike, that's terribly demanding and leaves NO room for error, bad weather, injuries, even gear failures. A 30 mile day is not that hard in my view when you are in shape, but 'averaging' 30 miles per day is VERY difficult, that means a 'real' average of probably 34-35 miles per day because it's nearly impossible to hike 30 miles every single day when you factor in resupply, hitching and bad weather.

Before you commit to this, I would recommend walking at least 20 miles with a backpack on over some hills, 2.5 miles is not that tough to average in my experience, but for me at least, something changes around mile 22-23, and the day gets real long, real quick, but it's different for everybody.

Go for it, why not?

magic_game03
03-28-2013, 12:07
Clearly a supported hike.

Wow dude, What an attitude. That was my first post to you and this will be my last.

First you never mentioned it so I was just asking. Also I haven't seen anything in my skimming that tells that you had a support team or how you were going to be supported. You should probably lay out the support logistics to get better feed back. My personal feed back...get a better attitude.

Malto
03-28-2013, 12:25
Wow dude, What an attitude. That was my first post to you and this will be my last.

First you never mentioned it so I was just asking. Also I haven't seen anything in my skimming that tells that you had a support team or how you were going to be supported. You should probably lay out the support logistics to get better feed back. My personal feed back...get a better attitude.

I suspect he doesn't realize the meaning of supported vs. unsupported. I believe he is doing a traditional unsupported hike.

Piragua
03-29-2013, 09:46
I suspect he doesn't realize the meaning of supported vs. unsupported. I believe he is doing a traditional unsupported hike.


Wow dude, What an attitude. That was my first post to you and this will be my last.

First you never mentioned it so I was just asking. Also I haven't seen anything in my skimming that tells that you had a support team or how you were going to be supported. You should probably lay out the support logistics to get better feed back. My personal feed back...get a better attitude.

It's not an attitude problem. I apologize if i made it seem that way. I thought it was actually clear that it would be a supported hike. Malto's right when he said I don't realize the meaning. I thought a unsupported hike meant you don't get any help from outsiders, including packages in the mail? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Lone Wolf
03-29-2013, 09:55
It's not an attitude problem. I apologize if i made it seem that way. I thought it was actually clear that it would be a supported hike. Malto's right when he said I don't realize the meaning. I thought a unsupported hike meant you don't get any help from outsiders, including packages in the mail? Correct me if I'm wrong.
are folks meeting you at road crossings and setting up a camp for you each night? that's supported. getting packages at POs is not being supported. you still have to walk/hitch to the PO

Kookork
03-29-2013, 10:16
It's not an attitude problem. I apologize if i made it seem that way. I thought it was actually clear that it would be a supported hike. Malto's right when he said I don't realize the meaning. I thought a unsupported hike meant you don't get any help from outsiders, including packages in the mail? Correct me if I'm wrong.

I think you will benefit from using the search engine of this forum and reading some of the previous threads. Didn't you mentioned somewhere you have read some books about thru hiking? If so read them again. The mixture of real training hiking and cyber hiking makes your hike more possible IMHO.

In supported hiking you hire a carrier to carry your gear ( one is advertising on ebay right now) along the trail. If you pay 10 percent more he even will repeat this sentence every half an hour " You are doing great ".
unsupported : You can not have any conversation with other hikers along the way because they might morally support you by their words.

magic_game03
03-29-2013, 11:10
It's not an attitude problem. I apologize if i made it seem that way.

No worries. Apology accepted. Kinda my fault for being so snappy this week, I got finals and a 10 pager due this weekend and here I am on WB.

Here's my tip: Ya gotta prove that your up for the challenge before you start. I think a girl set a record on the Long Trail supported(supported= w/support team) just recently for 4 days. Go out and try to knock out this trail in about 6 days and you will earn some trust. Then, you will have everyones attention. Did you see the movie Gladiator where the guy says, "win the crowd and you will win your freedom," same here. Next, put a shout-out on White Blaze that you are trying this fast hike. A lot of people here on WB are not down with speed hikes, but many people are and those people will go to great lengths to help you accomplish your goal. Finally, start your hike. If you can keep your pace by the time you get to the state border you will have peoples attention. By the time you get to the second state border, people will know you my name. Most likely by the time you get to third border you will have people coming out of the wood work to support your hike. Support doesn't mean money but it does mean shuttling and taking care of logistics, which is very time consuming for most hikers. With a supported hike I think you have a chance.


But remember the story of Icarus, the freedom of flying high is exhilarating but go too high and it will surely be a devastating plummet when things go wrong. Keep yourself in check (recognize your limits), prove that you are capable (go out and do the LT in 6 days), then throw out a little chicken feed to all the chicken heads here (just drop in here with a little note to let everyone know you are starting the AT) and you will not believe your eyes at how fast people will come to aid your quest.

rickb
03-29-2013, 12:09
Questions for Piragua:

Will you be making a sincere attempt to start a long distance hike this year?

Will you make a sincere attempt to start a long distance hike this year even if you reach the conclusion that a complete thru hike in 75 days is not realisic?

I hope the answere is yes to both, but I sort of expect that may not be the case.

To my way of thinking, one thing that is lost in a thread like this is a communal hope that do you (and people like you) don't pass up an opportunity to gain a great lifetime experience, simply because you may have chosen to frame your specific short-term challenge too narrowly.

Kookork
03-29-2013, 13:20
Questions for Piragua:

Will you be making a sincere attempt to start a long distance hike this year?

Will you make a sincere attempt to start a long distance hike this year even if you reach the conclusion that a complete thru hike in 75 days is not realisic?

I hope the answere is yes to both, but I sort of expect that may not be the case.

To my way of thinking, one thing that is lost in a thread like this is a communal hope that do you (and people like you) don't pass up an opportunity to gain a great lifetime experience, simply because you may have chosen to frame your specific short-term challenge too narrowly.


Amen to this.

magic_game03
03-29-2013, 14:22
To my way of thinking, one thing that is lost in a thread like this is a communal hope that do you (and people like you) don't pass up an opportunity to gain a great lifetime experience, simply because you may have chosen to frame your specific short-term challenge too narrowly.

This is so true.

If you love to exist in nature most everything enjoyable thing about the NST's are off the trail. While the AT is less geologically interesting, a prime example is the PCT. The trail literally skirts all of the most phenomenal parts of the wilderness. It is up to the hiker to release him/herself from the grips of being a mileage hound and seek out these elements, like... Death Valley not on the trail, Mt. Whitney not on the trail, none of the redwood forests (two kinds: costal & inland) are on the trail, Lower Yosemite Valley-El Cap-Hf dome not on the trail, Ritter not on the trail, Palisades not on the trail, Iva Bell (Fish Crk Ht. Spr's) not on the trail, Tahoe not on the trail, Donner Lk. not on the trail, Burney falls not on the trail, Mt. Shasta not on the trail, Drakesbad not on the trail, Mt. Ashland not on the trail, Crater Lk. not on the trail, Mt. Thielson not on the trail, Sisters not on the trail, Eagle creek not on the trail, Mt. Hood not on the trail, Rainier not on the trail, and so on.

The trail does go right close to all these places but not like Mt. Washington or Clingmans Dome. Often you have to go a few miles out of your way. Is it worth it to cut into your schedule... ya better damm well believe it!

Look at Squeaky. He did a triple crown and gets a lot of credit for the TC but he passed by all these places just to be the 2nd TC'er ever. I met Squeaky in '03 in Maine and in '05 on both the AT and PCT and he is a very nice guy. We know him, he's famous--but unfortunately he never got to see that stuff. So much for fame.

magic_game03
03-29-2013, 14:22
To my way of thinking, one thing that is lost in a thread like this is a communal hope that do you (and people like you) don't pass up an opportunity to gain a great lifetime experience, simply because you may have chosen to frame your specific short-term challenge too narrowly.

This is so true.

If you love to exist in nature most everything enjoyable thing about the NST's are off the trail. While the AT is less geologically interesting, a prime example is the PCT. The trail literally skirts all of the most phenomenal parts of the wilderness. It is up to the hiker to release him/herself from the grips of being a mileage hound and seek out these elements, like... Death Valley not on the trail, Mt. Whitney not on the trail, none of the redwood forests (two kinds: costal & inland) are on the trail, Lower Yosemite Valley-El Cap-Hf dome not on the trail, Ritter not on the trail, Palisades not on the trail, Iva Bell (Fish Crk Ht. Spr's) not on the trail, Tahoe not on the trail, Donner Lk. not on the trail, Burney falls not on the trail, Mt. Shasta not on the trail, Drakesbad not on the trail, Mt. Ashland not on the trail, Crater Lk. not on the trail, Mt. Thielson not on the trail, Sisters not on the trail, Eagle creek not on the trail, Mt. Hood not on the trail, Rainier not on the trail, and so on.

The trail does go right close to all these places but not like Mt. Washington or Clingmans Dome. Often you have to go a few miles out of your way. Is it worth it to cut into your schedule... ya better damm well believe it!

Look at Squeaky. He did a triple crown and gets a lot of credit for the TC but he passed by all these places just to be the 2nd TC'er ever. I met Squeaky in '03 in Maine and in '05 on both the AT and PCT and he is a very nice guy. We know him, he's famous--but unfortunately he never got to see that stuff. So much for fame.

Malto
03-29-2013, 16:48
Look at Squeaky. He did a triple crown and gets a lot of credit for the TC but he passed by all these places just to be the 2nd TC'er ever. I met Squeaky in '03 in Maine and in '05 on both the AT and PCT and he is a very nice guy. We know him, he's famous--but unfortunately he never got to see that stuff. So much for fame.

Unfortunately for him or unfortunately for you. I suspect Squeaky is quite satisfied with what he was able to see. While it was different than your priorities he was able to see scenery on all three trails through a variety of conditions. I'm sure he's crying that his hike didn't meet your expectations.

magic_game03
03-29-2013, 17:30
Unfortunately for him or unfortunately for you. I suspect Squeaky is quite satisfied with what he was able to see. While it was different than your priorities he was able to see scenery on all three trails through a variety of conditions. I'm sure he's crying that his hike didn't meet your expectations.

So, what's your point?

I think your just trying to make up some issue here. I did the AT, PCT, PMT, and the LCT that year (5,000 miles) and while I'm happy with my effort I will always be disappointed that there were things that I didn't get to see.

Do you even know Squeaky? Dude was a little upset at the end because he had to hike with the worry that his visa was going to run out before he finished. And since he over shot his finish time I know he was disappointed with his time. He was worried if he violated his visa then he might not come back to the U.S.. Ya should have seen how upset he was in '03 after he fractured his foot and had to put off the TC till later.

It's kind of like marathoners who can do sub 3hr's. you look at it and say it's awesome, they look at it and always contemplate if they had done something different they could have been faster. Squeaky is a nice guy but he's intense and I'm sure he'd of liked to see Whitney, Yosemite Valley--Hf Dome & El Cap, climbed Shasta, see Crater Lake, & done Eagle Cr. Tr. I think I know Squeaky well enough that I can vouch for him to say it was unfortunate that the US didn't grant him a longer visa so he could go to Arches or Pinnacles and other places like he wanted to. Squeaky & I will always be satisfied with our hikes but disappointed that we didn't get to see more.